 Good evening and welcome to tonight's council meeting Before we start the the meeting I'd ask Madam city clerk to read the quote for the week. Thank you Ethics is a code of values which guide our choices and actions and determine the purpose and course of our lives Thank you Madam city clerk also, please note the next common council meeting is Wednesday April 4th For the benefit of the public and the alderman it will be a Wednesday. I believe so Please make that notation Call it 24th regular meeting of the common council order. Please call the roll Oran, Berg, Serta, Davis, Graf Excuse Hanna, Kittleson, Clowness, Manny, Meyer, Montemayor, Ratke, Ryan, Susha, Vanderweal, and Berhasselt 15 present. Quorum is present. Alderman Kittleson, would you please lead us in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag Of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands One nation under god Indivisible with liberty and justice for all President berg. Uh, yes. Thank you. Your honor. I ask that the minutes be approved. Is entered on the record Motion to second to approve minutes under discussion There being on olds and failure police. I Any opposed motion carries before I Go into the next item resignation. I wanted to express my gratitude and that of the city and I I feel that I have the common council support in the exceptional job that our fire department did today with the fire at the landmark apartments The fire fighters responded with a two-minute response time and contain the fire in such an incredible manner that No other buildings or homes were were actually burned. The heat was so intense That it could have done some serious serious damage, but they were ready ready to go well prepared They responded just incredibly well. Our police department did also they responded just incredibly well They've done a great job Transit provided the of the means for the evacuation of a lot of the senior citizens We had the town of shabuigan who assisted us. We had the red cross the salvation army We had citizens that were assisted Folks, this is a great example Of the good things that can happen even in the midst of something terrible the good things that can happen when people work together and cooperatively Thank you very much. Turn McLean resignation I think the first one your honor is From the business improvement district board Yes, your honor, okay Indicating that they received a letter of resignation from rob hurry from the business improvement district board And that asked for motion to accept and file Motion second any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed motion cares resignation accepted and a letter from Alderperson bonnie serda advising the mayor that she's resigning from the industrial development commission and housing rehab committee Due to change in her employment schedule That's for motion to accept and file to Motion in second any discussion All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? motion carries did it Mayor's appointments This is dated today's date From the mayor hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Mary morande to be considered for appointment to the business improvement district to fill the unexpired term of rob Curie whose term expired 9 14 0 7 signed by the mayor This will lie over and I had promised that I would have a short bio the appointments We had asked for one by my secretary's own vacation right now So we're a little behind on that But just as a brief introduction She's a director for the staphany wild center and she is very involved in the community and Just a great public servant But I will try to make an effort to bring some sort of bio for you. That lies over Thank you, attorney mclean Proclamation for andy geesen. I would ask that mr. Geesen. Please step forward Good evening, sir. Welcome to the council meeting I met andy andy geesen a few years back and in particular had a very good relationship With andy and alderman hannah when we were both the president and vice president of the School board and when I saw andy the first thing I thought is Where does he get all this energy from? I thought I had energy, but I think you would you you do me you get a lot of energy And he's got a big heart He really cares about shabuigan the things that he's done have been remarkable I would like to honor you andy tonight for your incredible work that you've done for the senior center And express a heartfelt gratitude for all the public service that you've given the beautiful city of shabuigan And I do have to put my glasses on Call old age Okay, proclamation whereas andy geesen has been greatly involved in the shabuigan senior center First as a participant and then as a member of the commission on aging and whereas andy has played an important role On the commission of aging as its chairperson for several years And whereas andy has offered direction and leadership and efforts to make the senior center inclusive to all And whereas by his unselfish dedication and leadership andy has affected the lives of hundreds of people By ensuring that the shabuigan senior center betters the lives of its participants by exploring new initiatives while maintaining his current programs Therefore, I want para's by virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of shabuigan Do hereby extend my personal thanks and congratulations And those of the entire city of shabuigan to andy geesen upon his retirement from the city of shabuigan Commission on the aging andy. Thank you very much for your hard work Mayor para's Mayor para's members of the council This is truly An honor the recognition that i'm receiving from you tonight is Really greatly appreciated I think equally as well as the appreciation that i'm getting here tonight was working with The commission and the staff and all of the people associated with the senior center This is one great organization and uh as you mature I heartily recommend that you become part of this senior center Not just as a council members, but certainly as participants within the community itself and the senior community And we are now recognizing the fact that you only have to be 55 to get in there I made that a couple of years ago, but it's really a pleasure again. Thank you so kindly I do certainly appreciate this before I sign off. I would like to have An introduction of my wife marge marge. Would you please stand? Thank you all Next item on the agenda is a presentation for mr. Boris frank consultant hired by the friends of the senior center. Mr. Frank, which please come to the podium, sir Mr. Mayor members of the council Thank you very much for the opportunity of addressing you today. My name is boris frank For the past 25 years. I've been a consultant to not-for-profit government agencies in the area of planning marketing Organizational development and fundraiser I teach courses in these areas for the university of wisconsin And from 1964 to 1982. I was on the faculty at the university Serving on the staff of wha tv and wisconsin public tv in april of 2006 I was retained by the commission on aging and the friends of the shabuagan senior center to review and analyze the senior center program An organizational structure and assist the center in determining its future direction I've served as a consultant to a number of other senior centers including those in oshkoshman row evansville Watertown sun prairie in madison Following my final report to the shabuagan Commission on aging last month. They asked if I would present My candid observations and recommendations to you that I presented to them And I must say after hearing some of the things that I feel a little bit like the pole cat in the party In my opinion Seniors are being underserved and undervalued in shabuagan Seniors are deserving of an improved and expanded senior center program The current facility is inadequate Not configured to serve as a senior center Because of limited staffing and financial support the center is open only four days a week I did research. I am not aware of another center in a comparable community that is not open at least five days A week staff is stretched thin and stressed out Communities one tenth the size of shabuagan Have better facilities and are open more hours Watertown a city half the size of shabuagan has a modern facility twice the size of shabuagan's Monroe one quarter the size of shabuagan has a facility three times larger Including a new exercise facility specifically designed for seniors that has a waiting list for membership Because services and facilities are so limited Many seniors are not participating in center programs and activities despite the best efforts of staff It appears the city is not prepared or is unable To provide the resources required to fully offer comprehensive services to its older citizens In fact, there are no signs in the city Directing people to the center Shabuagan seniors. I believe deserve better Almost 25 percent of shabuagan residents are 55 or older That's about 12 000 individuals You have an aging population the median age in 2000 was 36.8 years It's projected to be 38.5 years by 2008 These are individuals who've spent their lives contributing to this community's economy paid their taxes participated in the political process Raised their families here made shabuagan what it is today They do not deserve to be devalued at this point in their lives rather they deserve to be rewarded For the commitment to their community the investment they have made over the years They deserve a return on that investment I have made six recommendations To the commission first if the city cannot adequately operate maintain a senior center that would be spun off from the city And incorporate it as an independent not-for-profit Organization this will enable the senior center to conduct diverse fundraising In the broader community and and not subject not be subject to city restrictions and constraints Secondly the friends of the senior center. I am proposing become a support group for the new entity Third the new entity negotiate long-term financial support agreements with the city the county and neighboring townships Next a new state-of-the-art facility be pursued and outreach service locations explored Next partnerships with other community organizations such as the school system medical community private organizations Serving seniors be forged and finally an operating endowment be created I reiterate my opening statement seniors. I believe are being underserved in the community I urge you to either provide them with sufficient resources and services or set them free With adequate transitional support to pursue creation of a center that they deserve and have earned I thank you very much for your attention and your time Thank you. Mr. Frank public forum ma'am city clerk Um first on the list would be henry capitello And can I get your home address, please? Yes, that's 16 19 north 38th street and that's in the town of sheboygan And I am here representing home ink. Okay, and you will have five minutes, sir. Okay. Thank you very much Some of these council's changes and proposed changes like the moving of the police mechanic to the Public works building and the proposed moving of the community policing positions to the sheboygan transit Are just not sound decisions and have no foundation of common sense It is understandable if in some changes you would be dramatically saving Tax dollars making things more efficient or even making things run smoother Then you could justify such changes But in these cases that is not the situation For example, the president policing component of the sheboygan police department Collects enough revenue to pay for the officers wages benefits And in fact even generates additional revenue for the police department Why would you want to change something that is presently working extremely well? Apparently this administration is fixated on continuously trying to disrupt and dismantle the operations of the sheboygan police department That motivation what motivation would this administration have to undertake these types of changes? It should be apparent to anyone with any ounce of common sense that these changes are proposed changes That bear no logic or common sense whatsoever It has always been my belief that the reason that this administration is so intent on disrupting the police department Is because they would like to see a whole new policing entity within the city of sheboygan Apparently the present police department is not what the administration wants to see in this community What is this administration's vision of policing in this community is without a doubt going to look like this A police department with fewer officers within the department A police department that will be so stretched that officers will and supervisors will have to choose What they can realistically do while on duty A police department with a dramatically smaller budget but increased overall responsibilities A police department where officers will have to choose to do more and not get paid Or just do what is humanly possible within their shift A police department that will not be able to keep good officers and or attract good candidates for openings within the department A police department where officers will have to be forced to choose on what calls they will have to respond Because every year the number of calls for the police department are increasing A police department that cannot speak out because this administration cannot take any kind of constructive criticism regarding its policies A police department whose moral morale is trained because the police officer's perception that they are not appreciated or respected A police department whose administration will be expected to be subservient to the office of the mayor Do not be swayed by this administration statement that they are not anti police because they are going to be building the police department a new facility And that this council and mayor made it possible to build a new facility If you recall the previous administration approved the building building a new police department facility at the shared shared in park location That was projected to cost 17 million dollars What this administration did was rescind that project that resolution as soon as it took office and overtime slashed the budget In fact, this administration convinced some older persons to support the 23rd street site by saying that they would support a budget of 13 million for the facility And then switch and supported a dollar figure of 9 million dollars for this facility This mayor is the same person who as a school board president supported a 30 million dollar referendum To build state-of-the-art gymnasiums for high schools plus other construction This is also the same mayor who ran Who a year ago told the citizens of the city of shabuagan that their tax bills would be higher solely because of the spending levels Of the shabuagan public school district lake shore technical college and shabuagan county I asked i asked this council to look at what effect the toll of their actions will take on the police department police officers police morale And overall policing within the city of shabuagan You cannot say i support the police department on one hand and in turn create irreputable harm to its existence That is like an abusive husband who says i love my wife, but every chance he gets he abuses her You cannot keep abusing the police department and expect it not to make a difference in its well-being Some of you may say well shabuagan is ranked high as a safe place to live Why do you think this is so I can tell you with without a doubt It is because of the police officers and their leadership That this has made that this has made the city of shabuagan a safe place to live and is not just a coincidence When making decisions that will dramatically affect the city Excuse me. Henry one more minute. Do you need? Yes, okay When making decisions that will dramatically affect any city department Please make sure that you allow true involvement and input from department heads and not just slip service And if you do not hear what you want to hear From the different department heads Do not make it difficult for them to voice their views just because you have the power to make their jobs that much more difficult The sign of a good and wise leader Is that he or she can accept constructive criticism and can incorporate it incorporated into their decision making process Be good leaders and strong council members. Look at everything before you make your final decision Thank you very much for this time. Thank you And finally milk storm And can you give me your home address, please? Yes, I live at 1736 marvin cordon. I've lived there for 20 41 years and always try to pay my taxes Okay, and you will have five minutes, sir Thank you mayor Sue and council members It has been about eight or nine months since the last time I addressed this common council I learned from my parents how to educate myself that if I have a dispute with people you go talk to them face to face If that fails, then you take some of friends. You're with you and then you again talk to these non-believers face to face If that fails Then the ultimate choice is to make a public perspective of these people as they do of me It is my version of my golden rule Since I am quite outspoken this evening I may bypass rule number one and two and go directly to number three These council meetings along with their committee meetings are not soap opera operas that are designed to titillate or entertain They're not games or sporting events where one keeps a running score to see who wins and who loses Rather, these hearings are honest debates to decide what is the best interests of all citizens of our city Not just the special few Be they the rich and powerful or the weak and the poor According to some liberal thinkers. They only see some of us as people bashers I'd like to read an editorial in sunday's opinion page And this just indicates how nasty I am Let's stop all the people bashing After reading many of mr. Storm's letters to the editor. I sense seeing a lot of anger Mr. Storm should examine his own thinking in mind Instead of always bashing and nitpicking. He should work together and talk with the people It always seems that if things don't go his way, it's always wrong If we are to return our city to Togetherness mr. Storm often talks about We should all stop starting trouble and quit running down and hating people It seems to me that in my honest opinion some new older persons on this common council need to show a little more courtesy and wisdom Especially some who make unwarranted comparisons between schmoyg and other cities of larger or smaller populace This left-wing liberals as I turn them just don't cut the mustard with me Sorry, I can't meet them in the vegetable department of a grocery store. Maybe a bowling alley would be more appropriate The city of kanosha has a population of probably 91,000 feet of people neighboring. We're seen as a prop Approximately 82,000. I believe it is the city of kanosha that is asking taxpayers To furnish them with 205 police officers Using that percentage is this then the schmoygon could ask for at least 125 and 130 police officers to handle crime and illegal drugs and assist the fire department when a tragedy occurs like the living the landmark squares Pardon my german background. That's my truthful and honest letters to the schmoygon depressed I can only imagine my letters keep the local gazette in the black I'm sorry if that offends some liberals who think I am a schmoygon's number one people blaster I carry a card with me and i'm sorry. I forgot to bring along this morning It is addressed to me and only has my son's name on the return address april 15 2001 income tax day four months after december 15 2001 the resurrection of my son occurred I was at a gas station at 21st in indiana. I was looking for blunts and some drug Paraphym nail if I could find him when a man came running into the gas station asked for a gas came like He could use because he had run out of gas down the road a ways The attendants paid no attention. I asked him to step outside with me and I would take care of his problem I told him first of all you need a red cannon possibly our wonderful common council has some ordinance frowning on carrying the wrong colored cannon down the streets I suggested that we go to my house a few blocks away and get my red cannon I used my lawnmower for my lawnmower I introduced myself to him told him on my son's passing and explained to him that if you give love away it generally comes back to you He said amen three fold I knew at that time. I had a christian on my hands We he filled his gas hand in his blue shiverly pickup truck and after numerous tries got it started insisted that I come back Through the gas station and refill my gas can again as we departed I asked again what his name was and he said jeff see around I must say my jeff's spirit moves Miraculously the next day. I received the card in the mail and I have to use my memory It was a thank you card worth more than gold and it said thank you milton for your Help god bless and he thanked me three fold his wife and his two sons also thanked me If anyone is so stupid in thinking that I'm bashing the good people of shaboy and better research their minds If you want to bash anyone then bash the shaboy can press on their editorial page Not our excellent police department. WHBL radio or yours truly. Thank you for listening and you all have a good evening Thank you, sir. You did it exactly in five minutes That's all Thank you, madam city clerk We have one hearing tonight For the vacation and discontinuance of a part of south commerce street bounded Bound on the north by illinois avenue and on the south by an unimproved 18 foot white east west ellie Is there anyone here that would like to address the council? Please And can I have your name, please sarah site Sarah and how do you spell your last name sarah s e i Tz and your address sarah 715 a kentucky avenue Okay, go ahead Okay, I would just like to comment that uh, I disagree with the vocation of commerce street Um, first reason our parking in the area is already limited. I've been managing dave susan for three years now So we do tend to see the traffic we get in on a weekly basis I believe this is causing undue stress on our business Um area businesses and other customers I completely support the development in the area, but no hopefully this will bring more customers to the area on an already stressed parking situation In search of solutions. I've been told there's private parking in use and then highland house restaurant plans to be neighborly These are not solutions the owners at any time may discontinue their parking For public use I believe a parking survey would prove that parking is already an issue one has not been done in quite a while I believe that the best course of action would be to complete a parking survey before the vocation of commerce street Thank you, sir Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to address the council? Sir, please step up And can I have your name, sir? Sure Uh muroslav on itch. I go by nick 315 ridgeway street collard wisconsin Thank you. Go ahead and uh I guess i'm here speaking in favor Of the vacation of commerce street I've spoken to sarah cites Mr. Rapinsky and his colleague henry who's sitting in the back We had a few adult beverages and spoke about this one evening I think we can respectfully disagree about it but I've spoken also to Mr. Schmidt and And the demastro brothers about their development Meaning the highland house restaurant We're all very interested in making that intersection one of the premier intersections for entertainment For food and for conviviality Parking is an important part of that What i'm proposing for the jj kepsel building the former jj kepsel building will provide New parking that doesn't exist now I think what the highland house is doing has done the same If anything, I think the neighborhood has been enhanced by what we are Proposing not just from a quality standpoint, but also from a parking standpoint If I recall mr. Rapinsky and miss sites Control other properties near their tavern, which could be developed into parking and for whatever reason have chosen not to I guess I think there are plenty of Parking alternatives there and I really don't see where parking survey Is justified we're ready my group is ready to start construction We've selected our architect. We're ready to roll The final piece before the green light goes on is this vacation It's an important part of our process In our project it pulls together two Sites that I purchased and my company purchased brings them together into one and allows for a more Continuous and rational development of that area and I think everyone in the city will be very pleased with what we have So I encourage you not to introduce any artificial delays Because dave's who's in would like to have some free parking I think they have plenty of parking I think we will provide more I think their customers will be free to park wherever they wish. I'm not aware of anybody wishing to Stand in the way of where people park and we would like your help to make that intersection The exciting intersection in shabuigan To come and enjoy our culture our food and our wine and our beer, especially our beer Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to address a council, sir? Please step up and can I have your name, sir? Henry Thompson thomp and Henry, what is your home address? 919 custer avenue Okay Go ahead. Okay. Um I am currently the weekend bar manager at dave's who's in And we've noticed that since we've lost the parking directly across the street from us where the highland house Is being built. We've lost about Roughly 35 percent of our weekend business because of a lack of parking Which is huge when you think about it A year ago On a friday night, we would be packed As of last friday night We probably had Roughly about 250 people come through the bar, which you would think is a lot, but that's nothing in comparison to last year We desperately need a parking survey done just so that we can prove that the need is there Between the residences and the businesses in the area. There is no There's there's no parking. I mean there's not enough parking to sustain everything And until this is addressed there's going to be a huge issue Thank you Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else that would like to address the council sir, please step forward And can I have your name sir brandon seabirds? I'm sorry brandon seabirds brian brandon Has spelled for me b r a n d o n And the last name s e i b e r s And brandon, where do you live 8 17 george avenue? Okay, go ahead I'm a resident. Um I go to dave's quite often There's many times that my wife and I had to park back at the house Um, we drive around the block waiting on the parking spot. There is no parking When we did have the parking cross street it was easy to get in Um, some nights it's just too cold to walk So we just stay home and wouldn't be able to visit the restaurant About it Thank you. Thank you, sir Is there anyone else that would like to address the council? Sir, please step up and can I get your name, please sir david rupinski and your home address 835 indiana avenue That's my mailing address All of those are my addresses Okay, thank you. Go ahead. I just want to thank everybody that's here very much. So it's enjoyable watching you sometimes It's it's very good. Let's thank brandon for coming up here. That's uh, I like the I would like to ask him a question By the way, thanks brandon if it's if it's possible I'll take public hearing just to address the council Um, david, excuse me. Could you pull the mic up a little bit? I think people are having a hard time hearing there you go There you go all right um Tonight I'm gonna ask you to vote no on vacating commerce street. I'm gonna tell you why okay now This is something that's been going on for quite some time and not with not with mick mick is a wonderful person I'm glad he wants to invest money in shabuagan. This is the greatest city in the this is greatest city in the world And I'm glad there's ways to make this work, but I'm going to tell you why this particularly can't work right now We already lost 27 stalls on indiana avenue with the rotary project. We lost 40 stalls with the highland house We lost 35 stalls With the angle parking with rolling curbs on nine street from the south tip of kepsel building to the river Now what they did is as a street they did not vacate the street They vacated the parking on the street So instead of giving a proper Maybe I won't say proper, but instead of giving an informative meeting Where everybody like me wouldn't like everybody like me would hear about it They did it this way and I want to show everybody this Yeah It's it's it's your Hand it to an alderman. They'll pass it around Now when I give 35 stalls On the east side of the kepsel building, which is ninth street. I'm giving a very conservative figure. There's 270 feet there 270 feet on angle parking if you give them 10 feet That's 27 cars per side But I'll say 35 cars because something always comes in play handicap parking Spaces in between there. I'm just saying if we delete some of that So I'm going to go over that again. We lost 27 stalls On indiana avenue because of the rotary project We lost 40 stalls with the highland house, and I'm glad the highland house is there. Don't say I'm just talking about parking strictly I'm glad these people are investing There's 35 stalls angle parking with the rolling curbs on nine street from the south tip of kepsel to the river I just wanted to repeat that so that everybody knows now that you See it and if anybody needs a map, I do have a map here But I only brought one thinking that a lot of you guys are familiar with this But I have gotten a few calls back that's not so familiar and I didn't get a chance to copy this side of it So if anybody would like to see it Now What's left on indiana avenue from ninth to tenth is 20 stalls for all of these businesses And I please want you to hear all of these businesses. There's auto electric. There's a warehouse the nailery Dave's who's in shipwreck end zone pool tavern the carpet store the insurance company Cots gas station green room computer store ziggies ziggies tavern There's a salon. I'm not quite sure what that one is it looks kind of new, but it is a building It is another business that's in that area. There's 19 apartments residences within this Then there's two rooming houses one holds three and one holds. I believe 14 And uh, all of these people are going to have to park within 20 stalls on indiana avenue now I don't see how the businesses can survive and I don't see how the residences are going to handle this There are five bars in this one corner. There's mine Their shipwreck a beautiful bar if you guys been in there, it's marble. It just looks great from one end to the other There's now the green room another beautiful bar if you guys knew it when cleo had it or when it was Mike's when it was cops and robbers He did a lot of work to it and these guys just did a phenomenal job And uh, there's also another tavern that a lot of you people don't remember and that's the pool tavern She runs the rooming house, but she keeps an active license now that we're having other businesses come in there Other business other investors people whatever are going to want to come into this area to make these places Bring these places up to code and get people in them and uh, they're all going to need parking There's also the end zone a small place but a fun place. I mean they have Uh, a little bit of limited parking behind them But if all of the proposed stuff goes through with this plan, they will be losing the parking behind them because I got a feeling I got a feeling the engineers are going to pressure the railroad to clean that up back there Which could they could lose that alley back there now the alley's been back there as a dirt road probably for 150 years They used to always have I'm only speculating but they always used to have the roads next to the Railroads were originally they were cart paths next to the roads and just became cars And it's still there from all of that time ago But it would be considered non-conforming so of the places like end zone the carpet store and uh It used to be called smiling's restaurant now. It's an insurance company They would lose that parking behind it and there's even a couple of garages back there That would be considered non-conforming at that time and uh Anyway, now just getting back to the bar situation here being five bars in that one area me Shipwreck end zone green room We'll say possible pool tavern Then we're adding the highland house to it. I hold 550 people. I'll make is right I want parking and he says i'm not tearing all my buildings down I got one building on a way till february because I promised the man That I would wait until when I bought it from him that I would wait until next february to tear it down And I drew up all of the plans to have this done at that time I had normans to drop the plans the way i'm going to tear down the buildings now to create parking And when I take that building out to create more parking for myself I have always created parking for myself across the street where the highland house is now I tore down all the foundations filled them and graveled it plowed it paid the insurance on it Plowed it continually I did I got 250 dollars once from mike from cops and robbers once because he had a bunch of uh Uh, brought fries all in a row. He felt guilty and he gave me 250 dollars towards it That was great. That is all I got in about 15 years. Okay. When you said he took it over He just took it from me. I was always ready for that I provide my own parking but there's possibility of a thousand people being in that area How many people does highland house hold does anybody really know? I'll guess 300. I think it's conservative. Maybe it could be 350 Might be more mixed place. It's going to hold Point head place could hold a thousand people itself But the way he set it up. He says no mick 300 You don't have to answer anyway. It's possible that that could be 300 people. So that puts us 55 for end zone. We'll say 80 for cj's 200 for green room. Well, I shouldn't say maybe 125 for green room Um 500 for mine. We'll even go to four of a kind. I'll say give it a conservative figure of 125 Still puts up around 1100 people and that's without his that'll all be trying to find parking um now All of this is going to have to survive on the 20 stalls that are left on indiana avenue plus the people that live there Imagine it during a snow emergency Okay And as a city, we're not supposed to give up our parking We're supposed to keep our parking make a tiff district. I don't care if there's You tell them they have need 60 stalls. You got 15 area charging for 10 up on the hill We've done that forever with our tiff district down at the river and uh charging them up here That's the way it works Granted I have providing my own but I still have other people parking in my lot of the other Taverns that are there that need this parking that is here now I have some pictures just thinking of this because one of our alderman today asked me about this So what I did is I took what I did is I took some pictures That I had taken this last weekend And then I had taken some pictures today and I'll pass these around you can see how the cars are here the cars um all the way along the capsule building and uh You might get a better layout of the land Now tonight, it's a permanent thing when you guys vote tonight. It's done from here on. What do we do? We got to survive there is all of those businesses that are there I mean, let me say it again There's auto electric a warehouse nailery Dave's who's in shipwreck end zone pool tavern carpet store insurance company kotsk gas station Green room a computer store ziggies a salon. I'm not sure of 19 apartments four houses two rooming houses of three and 14 rooms per I know i'm repeating myself, but I want to make sure you guys know that when this is done It's permanent. I've been on this I've been in this location. I bought it in december of 88 I've been there ever since I had one over here on seventh and pen They claimed eminent domain on me. They put a five million dollar building on it. Look beautiful I had a business then that we were building my dad bought it in early 70s I bought him bought him out in 86 and uh all of that stuff started happening We'll say 87 And it didn't take a whole lot longer after that that company did go bankrupt So i'm not saying mick has probably got a deeper pockets and all of us put together I'm just saying what happened there because that guy did have deep pockets His shares went from 30 some dollars down to three dollars before I think he got out of it But i'm just saying how this stuff goes and we always need parking for the businesses that are there I have survived there forever so Since there is no parking study a solution Still could be made with giving back nine street getting back to parking on nine street from the southern tip of capsule north to the river Now that is a street. They just vacated the parking on it Um, it is still city domain city right of way. It was just running curb end to end We could put angle parking on it again Now grad and mick would lose one side of this But he would have the whole other side of it. The only problem with now is doing it tonight This is a permanent thing if we decide to say Okay, we'll do that other thing, you know what nine street and then later just change your minds That's where our problem comes in it can be debated on forever and never get done And I really hope that it's just all you have to do Is table this for a little bit and get this taken care of I guess there's one other thing we could do is along the railroad tracks on the south side of Mix land if he wants to make a trade where that railroad is he's up to trying to vacate that Uh railroad the tracks that are there which is a really good idea, but they renew their contract I believe in 98 possibly 99 on another hundred year contract So on another hundred year lease so the railroad is not really keen on giving that up I don't see kohler letting it go very easily because it could be a possible thing from his place up to blue harbour I think it's there's a lot of things that could work for us in that area with those tracks But i'm just trying to come up with another solution the two solutions that I can only see are Either making nine street angle parking again And if we were to dog on talked about this if I'd have seen the proper notice on this Paulette we'd have had this argument a long time ago And me and you have gone around and around with parking. I know you smile at me like that But I really wish because we wouldn't be here now the thing would have been settled mick would have been building tomorrow He's got his dog on And what are things sitting there ready to go? I mean I'd like to see him work there dog on it brings more people in by me But i'm just saying today's decision is permanent Is permanent you're going to make all of these businesses all of these residences survive on 20 stalls You can say he's got parking you can say four of kinds got a couple of parking places You can say highland house has got parking places. You can say um You can say Whoever left there's got parking dog on I work out as much as I can with cots to keep that thing clear And I got kids throwing wrappers down all over the place, but I'll do whatever it takes for parking I just want you to remind there was no study done through the dog on study done on this We had this figured out now. We went back 15 years couldn't find a study. Am I correct in saying that? You know as far as as far as that we could find there was no study done in the last 15 years And if it would have been done all of these solutions, we wouldn't have to be here But unfortunately we are this is a tough decision and I am really sorry because I do love mick. He's he's one hell of I think he's honest. I think he's straightforward But today is a permanent permanent Thing here and you're going to make us all survive on 20 stalls and uh, I'm going to have 27 stalls of the buildings I'm tearing down boy if I told you how much I got into mine You tell me I was crazy. My dad tells it to me every week when I tell him I just don't know what to say, but I've survived as a business this long and I've done it well And uh, I've done it because I've made a lot of good moves. Some were lucky moves other were smart moves But just want to remind you there's 20 stalls left there. There's no parking study There is solutions that can be done in a matter of a week We can be back here special meeting whatever it takes heck Dog gone to stay here an hour after their thing here and get it hashed out. We're all here Um, and it could be taken care of Sign voted on then but I'm just saying this is permanent. You're going to make us survive I already had to survive moving once and I did a good job Did a great job I'm just saying this doesn't have to be necessary because there are solutions to it I'm just making sure Now I went over the thing with down by the river how they created a tiff district They charge people for all the parking a city should not give up its parking They never should you want to make trades with businesses fine And I can see where that road comes right down the middle of all he owns There's still a solution to it I think I've all covered everything I uh Just want to remind you, you know, there was not a parking study done on this and I really wish there would have been and uh There is a lot we've already give up 27 stalls in indiana avenue 40 stalls with the highland house, and I love the highland house. It's just Bringing a level excitement to my area We're going to lose another guessing on this where you're vacating the street. I give it a conservative 35 Actually, it's probably closer to 50 or 60 stalls, but we'll say 30 35 stalls that are possible to use just To say you've already taken off of 9th street another 30 stalls 35 stalls I mean, there's 270 feet on both sides of that you can do the math yourself. It's 10 feet per angle parking um Just remember when you guys make this decision tonight it is permanent for us I mean I wouldn't know how to change your minds other than that because once it's done we'd have to survive and you take You take Cinco de Mayo There could be a hundred. I mean a thousand people in the area just on a simple thing take a dozen other Take a dozen other holidays or bar get together valentine's day Everybody takes a woman out on valentine's day highland house going to be a great restaurant to go to Mixed place will be a good restaurant to go to let's just do the thing smart I've been here surviving all these years done a good job. I'm not saying I'll survive I'll survive. I will but we have to make the correct decision. We really do This is a permanent thing today. There's a lot of businesses depending on what this decision comes down to today Thank you, David. Thank you Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Is there anyone else? Is there anyone else President burb Thank you, your honor. I would move that the hearings be closed Motion second closed hearing under discussion Oldenborn Thank you, your honor. I was wondering if we could hear from Paul and Paul it enters on this and also, uh I'm wondering if there's any possibility of getting the interested parties together on this and maybe report back to the council on a couple weeks. I know it's been delayed and delayed but Maybe the parties could meet and could meet and maybe come up with some solutions. Thank you Paulette, please step forward, please Hey, thank you mayor and common council um, I don't think I can say it as well as mr. Annex said it but With any of the projects that are occurring time is of the essence um having And I'll just give you a little bit of history on that site on the on a couple sites in that area The first one is the eighth in indiana site that at one time was used for parking and it was leased by mr Rapinsky when we were looking to develop that site We sent out a request for proposals to everyone anyone that had showed any interest in that site We received two proposals back One was from a developer out of milwaukee and then the other was the schmick group that ended up Getting that site and developing the highland house and they are developing parking For that business as well as for other businesses in the area. They've said That they want to be good neighbors and That they want to make sure that you know, everybody works together. So they've they've added they've actually added parking The work that we did on 9th street and on commerce street Didn't actually take away parking probably, you know through the way that we Reconfigured it tom holton has always said that we probably added a couple spots not taken away Mr anox Development will be adding parking for his development and he he stood up here and told you he also wants to work with the businesses in that area Um, there's a municipal parking lot on the rotary on 8th street that at any given point You can drive past that lot and it's underutilized. So that lot is available um, you know, and I know I Mr. Rapinsky was saying that I smiled at him only because a couple weeks ago. He told me 2006 was his best year ever And he's anticipating that 2007 will be even better um We've worked with nationally recognized municipal planners on that area and Through both our comprehensive plan and the harbour center master plan phase three They've identified the exact redevelopment that mr. Anak is proposing and I fully support the project and I hope that we can move forward Thank you, but I just hold on. I've got to all remember the city all the sushi Thank you your honor Um, I just wanted to clarify one thing that you said which was that mr. Rapinsky was renting the space across the street Where highland house is going up. He was renting that from the city the city always owned that property and he was renting that Is that correct? Yes. Okay, and then when you when you notified him that the lease was going to be Terminated at that point in time. Did you let him know that it was going out to be developed? When we sent out the rfp's he the request for proposal He received one and we did not get a response back So he had the opportunity to purchase that for additional parking and he chose not to do that I disagree with some of the numbers mr. Rapinsky gave saying that there's only 20 spots available to him For example, I'm wondering if you could elaborate in regards to the land that the railroad owns behind the boarding house I did speak to one of those owners and it's my understanding that she rents land from the railroad Yes, is that accurate? That's accurate and there's an there's an alley, but uh, mr. Rapinsky was correct that it's It's in a it's in a you know, it's actually in the wrong location in a way Where you could almost take the railroad property and flip it with that alley And provide better access and we've been working on that but Working with the railroad is difficult at best, but we have been pursuing that Okay, thank you And I just I want to emphasize too that I think that the council has led mr. Anagon for a long enough period of time He's helping tremendously with implementing the master plan I want all the citizens to know that one of the things he's talking about doing with that building is to bring in some Type of a grocery store or our individual shops that will facilitate that need periodically I get calls because that's my district. I think this is going to be a big asset to that area of shabuigan And I would ask that we move forward on this tonight Thank you, please Please hold on Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor. Are we going to be we have the resolution uh farther on in the agenda Are we going to pull this forward or? It could be done right now. We're I mean are we going to discuss this all right now or are we going to close the hearing or not, okay? I think mr. Rippinsky has some some valid concerns, uh, however, um Yeah, we can't stop progress Mr. Anik does have a lot of Omerine that is a we need discussion on whether they're close to hearing or not that would probably be more pertinent when the resolution comes I mean I'm following uh alderman sushi's example here and that's why I asked that question before I spoke Go ahead I can wait your honor until we So we come up with the resolution. That's fine. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for understanding alderman ratkin Thank you. I was going to ask for a point of order. We're discussing the hearing closing not the discussion of the resolution, so I Don't see any further discussion here with thank you all right. I mean we'll move forward. Thank you Thank you all the environment for understanding alderman barn. Uh, I'll wait your honor. Thank you. Thank you President Burke Yes, thank you The hearing that we move to close the hearing and pull forward number 21 46 The motion has already been made to close hearing. It's under discussion. We need to take a vote Is there any further discussion whether or not to close the hearing? There is none. All in favor of closing hearing. Please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries President Burke. Yes, and now I'd like to pull forward number 21 46 Which deals with the matter previous the under discussion of the matter of the hearing The motion is second to pull forward 21. I'm sorry 26 21 46 21 46 matters lied over on page 11 Matters laid over 11 page 11 21 46 an r0 480 40607 by city plan commission recommended vacation of the portion of the south commerce street bound by the north Bound on the north by illinois avenue and on the south by unimproved 18 foot wide east west alley And there you made a motion and second what you're gonna need you're gonna make a motion now I did make a motion correct to pull it forward to pull it forward It's pulled forward now. Do you want to make a motion with respect to anything? And then I would move that the resolution to be put upon as passage Motion to put resolution upon his passage under the second Second under discussion Alderman Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor Um Like I was briefly discussing Um Mr. Rupinsky does have some very valid concerns and I do believe that the city needs to look into the parking situation in that area Um, that is an area where parking is is at a premium to say the least However, there are many areas of indiana avenue that are underutilized at the moment The railroad spur runs all the way through parallel to indiana avenue Even though you know getting a hold of the railroad To get to them to respond and actually take some action on it could take up to a year and for what I understand That property they will not sell however. They will lease it With the right to put their tracks back through at one point But it would be suitable for a parking lot and I do believe the city actually needs to look into that They need we need to do a study if we if we have to Figure out what we need for parking when the highland house opens They will have a lot of parking stalls. Uh, mr. Annick's place again, but we want to draw people into the area the the the The businesses that are there right now without being able to park at the highland house Uh, there's not enough parking. We need to look into this and I believe we owe it to mr. Rupinsky to do so but in the same Same concern, uh, mr. Annick has a great, uh Uh Development coming up here be good for the city. We can't stop progress. We have to move forward. I do, uh Myself, I would like to, uh Ensure mr. Rupinsky that we will as a council look into the parking situation And uh, we won't remedy it if necessary. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ryan Alderman monta male Thank you your honor, uh, I also will support moving forward with this There was as a member of the plan commission at that commission There was lots of discussion in depth and it passed unanimously at the plan commission Thank you Thank you your honor if I could ask paulette a couple more questions, please under discussion paulette paulette, uh How many stalls will the highland house be creating it for itself? I I don't know the exact number, but what they did was They they absolutely maximize that site, uh, but I can't tell you what the exact number is And uh, do you know how many mr. Annick is going to be providing for his business? I don't but mr. Annick may know Okay, and then before we get that answer, uh One of the suggestions was to make angled parking on 9th street, uh What would be the problem with the city considering that? I think the issue with 9th street is that uh, mr. Rappinsky is talking about opening an area that wasn't vacated, but it's now a dedicated pedestrian mall and it's between The it's a length of the capsule building from where commerce would have dead ended to the riverfront And it's been fully developed for pedestrian mall and that that isn't anything I would recommend Okay, is it is it possible along with that pedestrian park to put parking in there or it's just not practical. It's it's now um You know with the action that the common council took We no longer, you know allow any any type of um automobiles in that area other than for emergency purposes or maintenance Okay, and then if I could get that answer for mr. Annie Hold on hold on if we're going to ask a non Director we need a motion to open up the floor Motion second up the floor to mr. Anick Is there any discussion on that? All those in favor say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries mr. Anick to step forward sir This is easy I don't know I'm waiting for the green light to go higher the architect to do that sort of planning And uh the best estimate I can give you is what's included in the uh Phase three harbor center plan put together by vandal on associates You can see that the very site That is part of my purchase is all dedicated for parking. That's my intent as well That commerce street is vacated in that plan, which is what we're asking for here today Nothing we're asking for here is inconsistent With the phase three harbor center plan Which has already been approved already been commented upon and already digested by the entire city And I believe strongly supported by the city and this council So, uh, nothing that's happening here is any different, but I can't give you an exact number or even an approximate number at this point We need the architects to do their work but if you refer back to the Phase three plan put together by vandal on associates. You'll get a good idea Okay, any other questions? Just wanted uh You're done. Thank you Or all in many is Okay, just wanted to make a comment here Polat is a very capable Thinking ahead type of person. She didn't make this decision by herself. We've got very competent nationally known consultants We've got issues that need to be dealt with tonight The parking problem is not unique to indiana avenue. We've dealt with issues on a street of Bethesda just recently The way it came across is there's a parking problem the city should provide but on the other hand It's a business decision people make when they have their place Now when when uh when that lot was being parked was being rented Where the highland house is going now? I cannot tell you how many times The police was called over there because there was problems that they weren't allowed to park there unless they were a day who's in So that parking was already restricted It wasn't shared It was already restricted and we've had several issues where people almost wanted to fight Is there a parking problem? Is there parking available? Yes, there is Has this plan been carefully thought out? Absolutely I think the council needs to be assertive and and move forward and follow the recommendations of city development and our consultants Vice president sorda Thank you, ronner. Um, first I'd like to apologize to the business owners in this area and the new developer coming in Um, it just goes back to I guess I have some questions for paulette And if she could put me at ease because I don't think this is an issue that we're not for pro developing these areas these blighted areas I have some questions if she could just share with me What criteria does the city look at when you have new developers coming in and being considerate to the older businesses That have been with us and been um and good standing If maybe if those questions could be addressed some of the the existing businesses that are there how the parking Issue is going to be addressed And your honor you had just said is there a possibility that there's a parking Problem down there even the question that it might be possible might Just validate that we might have to have a parking study down there So if paulette could just address the criteria that they look at taking in the consideration the existing businesses And I guess my biggest fear is that we're going to shift the burden on to The business owners to be a good neighbor to provide the parking for the existing businesses down there And i'm afraid that we might pin one business Against another and I really want to prevent that and I want to keep their relationship and good standing Thank you all and sorry to paulette. Would you please come up again? The question is what steps do we take to show some sensitivity to parking needs of the existing businesses that have been there for several years? And I think that's that's those are some of the things that we look at when we plan an area We looked at well What's what's vacant in the area and we have that municipal lot that does sit most of the time vacant And part of that is it's it's just not out the front door of a particular business It's there, but people you know just by our nature. We don't like to walk More than what we have to and the new businesses that come in they provided parking and Like I said, although I can't give you the exact um, you know the exact count I know that the highland house absolutely maximized that lot um Probably even more so than What we maybe a staff would have recommended just because we like a little bit more green space, but we worked with the developer um Also, I've talked to a couple of the businesses in indiana and we don't right now We don't stripe it Because we don't have meters and we're not talking about putting meters up But we could maybe look at striping parts of indiana so that you maximize so that you don't get people that are parking Um, maybe a little bit off and then they're taking up two spots instead of just one So that's that's one way Um Also looking at you know, I don't know if that it would become parking But it would at least help some of the homes that in there in that area working on that railroad corridor And putting in alleys where they should be So we have this has been well thought out um having parking problems is you know in in the development world It's a good thing central commercial. Also, I'll I'll I'll end with this We don't have parking requirements in that particular zone. It's it's like downtown, you know, you have Um, some parking lots that are provided by either the business or by the city And that indiana isn't any different than any other commercial district within the city Oh, linserda. It's a face. Thank you. Uh, please hold on paleta. We've got some other lights Oh, president burt for paleta. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayor Obviously, you've got entertainment venues Generally taverns have a density of business many times at different hours than for example insurance agency Excuse me, would you say that the current mix of business which has some retail? certainly some residential and uh, I guess as as that corridor is developed What seems to be now more development of hospitality based kinds of venues would uh, Would you see there would be a potential to cap the hospitality venues? Because obviously in terms of the amount of time people use parking it's conditional upon the amount of time They spend if you would in a business Well, could you just define a little bit your vision for the mix of businesses say in indiana's from the intersection perhaps till 12th street or that general area You know, it's hard to say. I know that when the highland house was talking to the city about their development They're not a 2am business. They're a restaurant that has some, you know bar facility, but they don't stay open till 2 That's why they thought they wouldn't have necessarily that great of a conflict with the other taverns that are in the area in indiana Um, I don't michael probably tell you that he hasn't determined the exact use of his building So I can't tell you yet what his hours are but that's why you know The highland house seemed to work because we always looked at it as not being a conflict When the indiana traffic starts to pick up, you know, it's usually it's in the evening and later It's probably nine ten or later And sometimes, you know, even into the morning hours where the highland house hours are different Okay, thank you Thank you We've got two more lights all romantic question for polette. Thank you your honor Did other businesses speak with you at city plan offering critique? Concern and if so, did they find their concerns answered? Um, I spoke to probably, you know, I'm and I'm trying to remember back. I would say two to three businesses One was during the The reconstruction of commerce on 9th street and they had some concerns But once highland house developed their parking lot in the city's Street those street improvements were complete That seemed to settle any concerns that they had another one we talked just like I had mentioned before about maybe Striping indiana in some sections to maximize parking and then I think you know between dave and then another business I think we just have some unresolved issues on parking But we we have had a lot of conversations about parking and um, as mr. Anak mentioned too, he's had meetings with dave and he's tried to resolve those Please hold on. We have one more light. I'll run Thank you again, mr. Mayor This is not exactly any questions for pollat here, even though I may come up with some as I'm rambling on. Thank you Are we done with her? Yes. Thank you, polat Mr. Anak has not actually laid out exactly how many parking spaces are there and he seems to have a good rapport with mr. Rupinski So possibly they could work together Maximizing parking in that location in the meantime. I do believe we as a council there are parking problems down there There's not enough parking spaces right now If the area is going to be successful and indiana avenue is going to be an entertainment corridor of the city It's obvious. That's the direction. It's heading. That's a direction. The city's pushing it with these developments I believe the city uh once mr. Anak's Prop that once his architectural plans are there I believe the city should do a parking study In the area and possibly even before that Aggressively pursue the railroad into possibly making some more parking city parking in the area We cannot delay mr. Anak in his building of his project We have to be uh friendly to people that want to spend money in our community And therefore I think we should pass this resolution now. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman ryan Any more discussion? Alderman cleanness. Yes. I call the question Is there a second to that? All in favor call in the question say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries Please call the roll and the motion. Please read the motion. The motion is to Accept and file the ro and pass the ordinance Warren Hi Berg serda No Davis Hannah I'm sorry. Yes. Thank you. Kittleson Cleanness. Hi Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Sushia Bander wheel Ann Verhasselt Thirteen eyes two nose Motion carries consent agenda 21 1 to 24 25 president berg Yes, thank you your honor. I move that we Accept and file all the RO's Accept and adopt all the RC's and place the general ordinance is upon the passage Motion second to pass a consent agenda under discussion. Alderman Bander wheel first Thank you, your honor. I just wanted to make some comments on 24 25 mostly for the information of the citizens It's an rc by pole protection and safety What we're doing is we're taking cooper avenue right in front of cooper school From north 20th north 22nd street. We're making that a one-way street going westbound And the reason we're doing that is out of problem solving working with the school There was some incidents there a child got hit by a car. We were trying to make it safer And we listened to the parents of the school the ptl came in and Quite a few meetings of discussion with the parents and we decided that this would be the best way to handle it And the houses that were affected Got a Got a letter notifying them and everybody that contacted the city Approved it wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman van der wheel Alderman Kittleson Thank you, your honor just wanted to wanted to make comments to on documents 24 16 through 24 22 Where the public works is recommending confirming the proposed assessments for the street resurfacing projects Many of the same folks who were at the hearing came to the public works meeting as well I I just want to thank all those people who came there the Questions they asked were excellent. The discussion went very well We're very appreciative of their all of their input I just want to let them know that and as the projects do progress now down the road If they have any other questions that they shouldn't hesitate to call us. Thank you Thank you. Alderman kittleson I I wouldn't make a comment before I call on all of them and Hannah your next sir on 24 16 through 24 Actually 2020 Right through the the proposed assessments People have expressed concern that perhaps the existing ordinance should be revisited And I would urge the council to do that one particular resident asked that these resurfacing projects be delayed or be postponed I've asked, uh, mr. Bill Bulkier city engineer. He advised against that But I would still ask the council to that in the back of their mind keep Keep that thought that perhaps it's time to revisit our existence the ordinance to see how we how we par with the feelings of the community Alderman Hannah your next Thank you, mayor And actually the issue you brought up is what I'm going to bring up I believe we need to delay the The process of resurfacing the streets. I believe the ordinance needs to be revisited Um, I think there's some issues of fairness I'm particularly concerned about people on limited income Even with our loan program and that sort of thing. I think it puts a great hardship on them And there are other people that it seems that It's the formula by which we charge them. They seem to be excessive. I I hope that we can revisit that And uh, allay some of the concerns of the folks here in Chippewa. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman Hannah There'll be no more discussion, please one more. Alderman many Sorry there, um, okay I wanted to pull those documents for a separate vote 24 16 through 22, which we're just talking about currently 24 16 through 24 resurfacing projects Okay These are all the proposed assessments correct We will pull again 24 16 through 24 22 for a separate vote After that vote occurs and we'll vote on the balance of the consent agenda Okay May I comment then please do Thank you agreeing with both the mayor and all their person Hannah There were wonderfully well spoken issues raised about the current ordinance and its apparent uh In some degree inequality perhaps injustice Related to percentage citizen city pay In relationship to the percentage we charge people For those who choose to pay over time And also with the notification process by which we inform citizens of planned Renovation of street surfaces I would believe that we would do better with the new ordinance Tweaked on the basis of These kinds of factors and I think we could come up with a much more equitable system In one that especially informs people three and four years down the line of the intent of council For probable street improvements that would be coming these kind of issues then Impact those who buy properties And they would impact realtors and we could require such information post in the website For instance require notification so people don't buy a property and find out they have a $5,000 fee A year after purchase that's going to be theirs to pay So those kind of issues being real I think and worthy of merit of conversation That I would then move to um return These documents to public works Um Knowing or trusting that we can have a fairly quick conversation and have these back to council At least with much more breadth and clarity And respective individual citizens and their needs and still be able to go ahead With the planned resurfacing processes for this summer. Thank you. Okay Motion and second be you had you had asked for a separate vote. You no longer want a separate vote You're instead asking to refer that back to public works Correct Yes Okay, I want a separate vote if it's not referred back Well, automatically would there automatically would be a separate vote to refer back. Okay Uh, generally when you want a separate vote is if you're considering to vote May And generally in this case if you want to refer it back just make a motion to refer it back There's a second. We'll ask for any discussion I know I have three lights. I've got almond mire venerable and ryan anybody want to speak on the motion to refer back only almond mire says no almond ryan Says no almond venerable says yes. You're on I I guess Before I vote to send it back I would like to see how long this would delay the process because some of these areas are in my district And for example lincoln avenue for five years people have been begging me to get lincoln avenue resurfaced And they were asking to move it ahead and move it ahead and we finally did So I don't want to stall the process because i'm sure there's some people who don't want to pay What they need to pay on lincoln avenue, but it needs to be done And and i'm sure needs to be done in all these areas. So before we vote if I could just find out if there's going to be a delay Uh, mr. Bibulki, would you please step forward your uh acting city engineer is no need for motion people the uh The process I would have to go through to look back to public this week and then He could get some information as to the policies that he changed. So it could come back to the next house Any almond venerable follow-up. Thank you, and and there won't cause any delay in the process of getting these resurfaced There might be some delay it might go into september instead of ending for four september So All right. Thank you Please stay there Alla misuja for uh, mr. Bibulki or not. No, it's not right. Thank you Oh, mr. Bibulki most bill please stay there. Go ahead. Thank you your honor. Um, I have some concerns about Extending this project into september potentially because of the children going back to school I don't think having road construction going on when they have to cross all those streets when they're going to school I think that's a bad idea and I think we need to caution the council on what we're doing here Because I think we're potentially opening a can of worms if we start referring these documents back because now If we're successful in postponing and delaying and recreating how we're going to finance streets Ultimately, you're going to dump it on the whole general tax levy and every taxpayer is going to wind up paying for this And perhaps I bought my house at the end of a quiet street So I don't have to resurface my street if you choose to buy a property on a busy street That's a fact of life and if we if we start going down the slippery slope The next thing we're going to see is we will have a galley full of people who don't want to pay to have their sidewalks redone Um, I bought a house. I needed to replace my sidewalk. It cost me almost $3,000. You know, I'm not walking my sidewalk I don't really do much walking but a lot of tourists do a lot of Local people walk down my street. So shouldn't that be fair then that the tax levy pay for the new sidewalk in front of my house I mean, I think we have to be careful with what we're doing here And I'm going to vote no to refer this back to committee because I think we need to move forward and get the project done before kids Go back to school. Thank you. Oh my question for mr. bulky. Thank you your honor I would just like to ask mr. bulky his opinion if we really should move forward on this tonight And I value what what you would say Almond Ryan for mr. bulky or not No, okay. No, we're done. Thank you, sir Almond Ryan. Thank you, mr. Mayor And all fairness to the the the property owners on these on these Streets that are coming up for resurfacing We used the same formula last year on a lot of streets that were resurfaced And uh, is it fair to those people that had to pay This last year to all of a sudden this year kick it back We must remember also if we start, uh Debating this issue and it goes into next year It's going to cost more next year to get it done than it does this year. It's a fact of a fact of life Um, I do believe alderman mani has some some valid points here I do believe it does need to be looked at, you know in certain areas To for the the fairness of the homeowner and definitely we need to have a long-term plan that people know Uh before they purchase property whether you know An assessment is going to be coming up for something such as this Um, you know, uh, I don't you know, we can't we cannot start debating right now You know, are we going to do it or not? Um We have to if we're going to get it done this summer. I believe it needs to be done It's not going to be solved in one council session Uh, it'll you know, we're looking at if we delay it now We're looking at doing it next year. It'll cost more next year than this year. Thank you One thing that you also need to be uh Thinking about is that if if you want to refer back to committee to look at interest rates Ratios and assessments and so forth and you make a change There's people had already been assessed that are going to say wait a minute Why did you do it for them and not for us? So it's more about it's it's a more complex issue That appears so you may want to move forward and then if you want to revisit revisit and be thinking about the broader picture And how how far you want to go back and retrospect Into history or not, but then you're going to have to make that decision and Wait for the phone calls Any more discussion vice president sort of Thank you, honor. Um Given this situation the one we just addressed the issue keeps coming up time is of the essence and I would agree in that However, now that we have this new information I've heard from my fellow older persons that we could have an ordinance that isn't necessarily fair I guess my question would be to city attorney steve mclean How do we go about changing an ordinance without being insensitive to those that we've already maybe Done the repaving before Like I said now we have this information and yet we're supposed to be maybe taking a blind eye to it because we have to Hurry up and get it done Is there and I would like to be respectful too to the timeline here But how do we go about doing this in the future in making changes without you know being insensitive to the people in the Past any suggestions? Thank you old mincer to Attorney McLean. Uh, no no magic bullets. I mean you set policy and You know part of policy is trying to be consistent to various constituents, but at some point, you know, there's certainly rationale If uh, if a policy should change, you know, just because it applied last year in the year before doesn't necessarily mean it should apply forever, but So I don't have a good solution to that You know, I've heard unfairness, but I don't know Frankly, you know, whether the policy is unfair, you know, you could do it a lot of different ways Uh, you know, you're you're trying to come up with enough money to resurface streets You'd either you know, take it all out of the general taxpayer You could especially assess the whole thing to the budding property owners or what we've got is kind of a hybrid that has It's not perfect, but it's it's been sort of a balance over the over the years. I think before you do Adjust that balance. I think you should look at it long and hard and not Not expect to send it back to committee and have it come back at the next meeting for action Uh, for one thing if you did change the assessment policy I think you end up having to give all these people new notice as to what the new policy is. So uh, I agree with uh What's been said that if And I'm not saying you shouldn't do this, but if you delay it I think you're probably talking about pushing this project back another season Thank you turn it McLean. I'll remember any second time. Thank you your honor Real-world politics compromise I'd be happy to send it back and simply achieve these two goals Cut the interest rate over time payment to five percent from seven And give a year longer term for that payment That to me would be helpful for our constituents And give us a longer time frame to revisit the larger issues involved as a city attorney McLean's noting That I think would be helpful productive and I think that would be helpful for all involved That is not uh, germane to the motion is being posed. It has nothing to do with how much we're going to charge It's just strictly entering into the contract Actually to uh, confirm in the proposed assessments for Uh, I think your your goal element can be accomplished after this passes or not And still ask public works to look into it And if there's any changes that you want to make or that the committee decides to make they could make it Retroactively to this this group if they so desire or from that point on And again as attorney McLean has said it will invoke notice you're going to have to let people know We just can't decide to change the rules of the game tonight and hope that things go well So it's it's a little bit more complex than that Of excuse me. I don't have any follow-up help me to understand please You're saying that the five percent and the time for for payment is not ordinance But it's it's not the the action that we're dealing with is a Rc's by public works recommending confirming the proposed assessments for resurfacing But not changing not changing. We're not percentage and the time frame is of in ordinance right now Termic only do you want to comment anymore? If I could you're on please just to follow up if the issue is percentage rate of The balance owing I think the council could adopt that After you pass this and before the bills are going to go these bills are not going to go out until after the work Is done because you won't really know what the actual Figures are for quite some time if the council at some point changed what the interest rate was on Annual installments of assessments you could do that going forward and still have that applied to these I think before the bills went out Good good point. Uh, all of them Davis, sir Oh, thank you Motion to call the question is there a second all in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries question has been called We are going to vote on 24 16 to 24 22 The motion is to refer back to public works only Please call the roll Berg Serta Davis Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Sushia Vanderwheel Rahassel And boron No eyes 13 nose motion carries. We will go back to consent agenda from 24 1 to 24 25 And Please call the roll Serta Davis Hannah Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Sushia Vanderwheel Rahasselt Warren and Berg 15 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 24 26 through 24 28 to be referred report of officers 24 29 by the city clerk submitting a communication from the bureau of integrated science services of the wisconsin dnr informing the shabuagan wastewater treatment facility That they were nominated for the 2007 large registered laboratory of the year Who wants to take that alwin kittleson sure thank you I move that the our role will be accepted and placed on file. Please Motion to accept and follows our second Motion second under discussion I feel that we have so many outstanding people who work so tirelessly for the city of shabuagan And this communication from the wisconsin dnr only helps to reinforce that fact for me Our hats have to go off to dale door al zengler and their top notch crew At the wastewater treatment plant for being nominated a second time for the laboratory of the year award I'm this is a second nomination for them. And I know that there are over 260 Registered labs within the state of wisconsin and some of those labs never get a nomination at all and so This is just really a huge huge compliment We're so very proud of our guys out there at the wastewater treatment plant We appreciate all of the work you do for the city and just keep up the good work. Thank you Thank you. Alderman kittleson Alderman cleveness Thank you. I just was going to say the congratulations as well. Thank you. Thank you alderman anyone else Motion has been made to accept in file 24 29 all those in favor say aye Any opposed? Motion carries 24 30 by the city plan commission recommended filing document submitting a request from the town of shabuagan For water service to a municipal lift station located at 1100 riverview drive and denying the request Alderman month in my honor. Thank you your honor. I move the r o be accepted and placed on file Motion in second under discussion They're being on holding favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries 24 31. We will hold for 24 55. Please make that notation 24 32 lies over 24 33 through 24 52 to be referred resolutions introduced 3 24 53 by alderman kittleson Amending the composition of the tourism advisory committee to add a representative from the charter fishing industry alderman kittleson Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion. Okay We know that the charter fishing industry plays such a huge role in helping to promote tourism in our city And so we feel that representation from that industry should be present on the committee as well. Thank you. Thank you And I would agree with that any more discussion All those in favor of putting the resolution upon its passage. Please say aye Any opposed? Motion carries 24 54 by alderman meyer Authorizing the mayor to submit applications to congressman p try and senator cole's office that will request a one million dollar grant for the Advancements of space science and education and technology alderman meyer Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion Alderman sushi Thank you your honor I think this is wonderful if we can get a million dollar grant for this program Just wanted to question if there's any matching funds required from the city Actually, it's a grant that is more of a partnership with the city. I believe there's an organization in green bay I forget the young lady that was here that did her presentation the last time from green bay It's more of a partnership in an act. We're not actually applying. We're we're showing our support more of a partnership There will be some some benefit to the city but not in that respect. Thank you Thank you Any further they're being on please call the roll Davis Hannah kittleson clayunas mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan sushi bander wheel for hasselt boron burr and serda 15 eyes Motion carries 24 24 55 our alderman vander wheel authorizing to purchase an agent to enter into a contract for the purchase of a suburban truck Less trade for the fire department And we will take 24 31 there. We do need suspension of the rules alderman vander wheel Thank you. Honor. I'd ask for suspension of the rules There's a motion in second to suspend. Is there any objection? There is not pre-proceed Then I will ask to place the report of officer on file and pass the the resolution 24 55 and 24 31 on the passage Thank you. Motion in second under discussion your Alderman vander wheel. Thank you, your honor uh The reason we asked for suspension was to so that we can get a better price and this item was budgeted Thank you. Alderman vander wheel. Any more discussion? There is none. Please call the roll Hannah All right Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel Berhasselt Warren Berth Serda and Davis All right 15 eyes Motion carries 24 56 by alderman graff. Hannah boring clayunas and sushi authorizing the barn of three million dollars And providing for the issuance and sale of general obligation promissory notes series 2007 a therefore Alderman Hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon his passage Motion in second to put 24 56 upon his passage under discussion Please call the roll Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel Berhasselt Warren Berg Serda Davis and Hannah 15 eyes Motion carries 24 57 by alderman graff Hannah boring clayunas and sushi authorizing the barn of four million dollars And providing for the issuance and sale of water utility revenue bonds series 2007 therefore alderman Hannah Mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon his passage Motion in second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel Berhasselt Warren Berg Serda Davis and Hannah 15 eyes Motion carries 24 58 by alderman graff Hannah clayunas Born clayunas and sushi authorizing redemption of a portion of the four million two hundred thousand dollar general obligation promissory notes series 200 a date in march 15 2000 Alderman Hannah Mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon his passage Motion in second under discussion There'll be a non. Please call the roll Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel Berhasselt Warren Berg Serda Davis Hannah and Kittleson 15 eyes Motion carries 24 59 by alderman graff Hannah Warren Clayunas and Sushia authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget one more time Alderman Hannah Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I think first I need to ask for the rules to be suspended on this Yes, we do Yes, make a motion to suspend and there's a second any objection Please continue Mr. Mayor, I remove that the resolution be put upon his passage There's a second second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel Berhasselt Warren Berg Serda Davis Hannah Kittleson and Clayunas 15 eyes Motion carries 24 60 by Alderman Sushia Clayunas, Montemayor, Kittleson and Manny Accepting the agreement with local 5011 Union of profession city employees for the 2007-09 Alderman Sushia Thank you, your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion second under discussion. Okay. Thank you, your honor I just wanted to again thank everybody that was involved in the process settling these contracts early in the season is Is a huge accomplishment for the Salary and grievance committee as well as the human resource department as well as the unions The last time I did forget to thank two people in particular, Judy Rudolph Who's the human resource secretary and also Susan Hart from the mayor's office? I wanted to thank them because this was a true example of great teamwork by the current administration As well as working with the city employees the unions and it's good that everybody was willing to come to the table and Get this accomplished and once again We were able to get this union up to a 10% contribution in their health plan by the January 1st 2009. Thank you Thank you Do you Any further discussion? Please call the roll Meyer Montemayor Radke Ryan Sushia Vander wheel rehassled foreign Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittleson Clayunas and Manny 15 eyes Motion carries 24 61 through 24 66 to be referred Allerman Montemayor Thank you your honor on 24 63. I'd like to I'd like to move to file please Motion in second to file under discussion Thank you your honor over the years we've attempted other times to move things away from the voters and Have it appointed Meet the qualifications and appointed and we have heard repeatedly in the past. No. No. No. We want to keep our vote Many times we've been through this. So I I think Even though maybe we should look at this I know the citizens do not want to lose their vote Thank you. Allerman Montemayor Allerman Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor Basically what this is is a to do a Investigation onto various forms of local government This is something that I think should be looked at the the reason that Myself and and Alderman Berg Have put this forward Is to attempt to try to take some of the politics out of local decision making And and to have decisions made more on on a basis of what makes sense rather than what They get a vote that day or or you know, what's what's selling at that particular time? This is not aimed at being a A slap at any individual This is nothing that will happen overnight This is nothing that will probably happen for many many years But I think it's something that needs to be looked at and therefore I Would vote not to file this. Thank you. Thank you President Burke. Yes. Thank you your honor I don't know anything in the resolution that speaks of taking votes away Simply put it's a matter of looking at how how do we govern alternative forms of government? And there's nothing in there that suggests that the fact that people will lose the right to vote As a matter of fact with some of the options people gain rights to vote For example, if you were to elect council people at large Rather than voting for two council people you'd be voting for 16 So I think there are options that exist That allow us to number one look at how we govern and also preserve people's rights to vote But we won't be able to make the determination until we take a look at it Thank you president Burke oldman barn Thank you your honor If if the object of this is to take politics out of city government That is absolutely foolish in my opinion Uh and and why should you take politics out of city government? It's the american way we have intelligent discussions and we decide on the issues For example, if you have 16 alderman And the majority of those alderman happen to be pro union And the city manager is working at the pleasure of the council That city manager better toll the line With the wishes of the council or that person is gone on the other hand If you have a council that happens to be pro taxpayer And those are the directions that are giving to the city manager and that city manager manager Does not toll the line with that agenda Then that person is gone. So there is always going to be politics in city government And I think it's just wishful thinking that politics is going to be taken out of city government The other thing a city manager From what I understand is going to demand a salary of probably 100 to 125 thousand dollars And probably require a five-year contract And as I mentioned before if that city manager is not doing the wishes of the council at that time And that city manager is asked to leave with a five-year contract after two years And all likelihood you're going to be stuck with that the remainder of that contract for another three years Plus having to hire another individual Also, I think the timing on this is very very curious I didn't hear anything about the city manager form of government Four years ago under the under the previous mayor I just think the timing is a little bit curious We went through a recall last year that failed miserably And to me, this is another attempt to make life miserable for mayor pares for the remainder of his term And whether you agree with the man or not In my opinion, he's working hard And if you don't like the job he's doing then at least you'll have the opportunity To vote him out of office if he decides to run. Thank you Thank you, almond Lauren almond rehearsal. Thank you, mr. Chair When this idea popped up a few few weeks ago or actually probably two months ago I think was when it actually started to surface. I took the opportunity to speak with greg buckley He's the city manager up at two rivers and I believe he's been in that post for 11 going on 12 years and asked him about Excuse me the concept of whether politics were removed or or still alive and he assured me he chuckled that politics are Alive and strong in his office that it actually continues to be a growing matter And oddly enough he actually suggested having the experience of ben in that form of government for 12 years He would see the strong value of having a mayor To actually handle the political side of it so that he could Take care of the city's business as was originally intended So it was interesting perspective that he offered having been in that form of government for so long I share a lot of the concerns that have already been spoken of loss of rep representation I'm here in the third whereas speaking to the size and representation of the common council After watching city politics here in the city of shabuagan for the last three years If it tells me anything it tells me that we need broad representation We don't need to narrow down the focus and concentrate the power In the hands of 6 8 10 or 12 people. I like the 16 man council that we have right now. Thank you Thank you. I'm a rehearsal almond vendor will Thank you, honor In politics, I think we all know that everything is based on perception And I think that the community is going to perceive this as looking into appointing a city manager and It was proved with other elected officials that we looked at appointing or Or keeping them elected officials that the citizens just don't want that I got many phone calls with other When we're looking at that and to me they proved that they don't want Us city official point and they they want their vote Thank you almond vendor will almond Ryan second time Thank you again, mr. Mayor. This is not something to take away any votes This is something to explore This possibility That's all it is A city manager earns 100 to 120 thousand dollars a year because that city manager has a minimum of a master's degree in municipal operations That person does the day-to-day nuts and bolts operations of the city And oversees that we still have a mayor that gets involved in politics We still have a mayor that gives direction. We still have a mayor that's voted in that's a that is one of the forms of having a city manager This is not a slap at you mr. Mayor This is nothing that would happen during your term. I guarantee you This is something that needs to be looked into for the good of the city. Thank you Thank you old woman serda Thank you, honor It's interesting to get all of the perspectives and I think it's helpful I can speak for myself personally my perspective on this is that I come in older person Byrd and ryan because what it's actually done in a time when we're always Criticizing our department heads and asking them to be more efficient and turning over the rocks in their departments to see if We can save some dollars. We're actually turning the tables on ourself I would not support this because this resolution if it did not include myself to be scrutinized and looked at The efficiencies as older persons if we need to limit our numbers if it just had mentioned Specifically looking at the office of the mayor. I would not be supporting this And at this time it's just gaining information And how nice would it be if it comes back and we find out like older person ver hassle said that it's ineffective Financially and what we're doing is a good and we get a good report card and that's why i'm supporting it Thank you old man serda on the sushi Thank you your honor I have to agree with alderman born that this this appears the timing isn't right. It looks more like a political maneuver So I will be supporting to file it I think that city government would function much better if Everybody understood what their roles were alderman are supposed to set policy Department heads implement policy and the employees execute the policy I think if it was more clearly defined and everybody stuck to the roles that we're supposed to be doing I think government in shabuigan would work much more efficiently And I think if we just straighten out some of those things We'd be you know doing even better than we are now I think that the current administration works very well together But i'm not going to support this tonight in this shape I think there is some merit to uh reducing the number of alderman in the future And I think we should maybe work with the county board and look at how their districts are going to shake out over time And perhaps the city could implement something like that at a future date Thank you old miss usher Alderman mire Thank you your honor, and I also agree with alderman born and alderman van der wheel. I do not believe that Creating a new position that our city has tapped already as far as our budget goes And to turn our mayor into a figurehead Is not what the people of this city want We have a very respected mayor who is a city manager And I think that he has set up a precedence and I have a feeling that any mayor that comes after him Will have to live up to what this mayor is currently doing thank you old man mire Alderman rehassle second time. Thank you, mr. Chair One thing I love about the american form of government is that we have a pretty complex form of checks and balances in place and locally One of those checks and balances is the fact that if the citizenry does not like the way the city is moving At any time we can vote out the mayor or the alderman here in the city. So I just again, I don't I can't Be interested in I guess the concept of removing that check and balance for our constituents. Thank you Mr. rehassle present bird Oh, yes, thank you again your honor point of clarification regarding has this ever come up in the previous administration But it was five years ago that alderman Schultz suggested We explore alternative forms of government It was perhaps as popular then as it is popular now because for some reason the rather self-evaluation or self-examination Always comes with some difficulty It seems we were already Bifurcating things between a mayor council form of government and the city manager form of government that isn't necessarily so Many communities use the form of a city administrator form of government. For example, we're seeing they have an elected mayor Who represents the will and interest of the people? Who I believe may be our Arbogenian has spent the majority of his time working in the area of economic development That's his expertise That's an area where he uses the power of the mayor's office to move forward and try and connect and collect If you would new resources for the uh, city of recede while the city administrator Primarily spends the time running the day-to-day operation of the city So I think there are alternatives out there as alderman bare hassle had said that You can't have the availability to have an elected mayor who represents that Will of the people that ability to speak and Go go to the community and work in Very well defined and very broad areas and also have someone That operates on a daily basis the day-to-day infrastructure of the city So the city administrator and mayor form is also a form that is very popular in the state of wisconsin But again, we won't know until we have the ability to take a considered look at that Thank you, president Burke woman recce Thank you, your honor I think maybe we should go study the british form of government go to a hierarchy of royalty and go to elect the prime minister and You know my constituents told me when we looked at making the city clerk at a point of role No, they didn't want to lose that vote. That was very important to them And tonight we're sitting here listening to people say well, you know We'll get ourselves a city manager that would know the nuts and bolts of the operation and the politics can be left to the mayor But the city ministry would know what's going on. So what's the next step going to be? Let's go out and hire ourselves 16 all the men that know everything that's going on We are a government by the people for the people love the people We elect the mayor to sit and run our city for us If the mayor is not well in four years, we can send another mayor in his place And that's what the people of this community want they've voiced that opinion many times over and I called the question Is there a second to that call second Under discussion on calling. Oh, there's no discussion. All those in favor say aye Aye any opposed Motion carries. There is a motion to file 24 63. Please call the roll Montemay or Radke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled boron Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny and Meyer Nine eyes four nose. Motion carries 24 61 To 24 66 with the exception 24 63 will be referred Reporter commit is for 24 67 by salary and grievances recommended amending For the calendar year 207 substitute general ordinance number 141 97 98 Which adopted the revised city of shibuya and compensation program for non-represented employees and passing the two attached Ordinances allerman susha Thank you. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted And that the subsequent ordinances be put upon their passage Motion the second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Radke Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled boron Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Meyer Montemay or 15 eyes Motion carries reporter committed six 24 68 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 73 53 based on non-cooperation with the committee allerman ratke Thank you your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion under discussion is amanda schindler lex here this evening She's not here this evening your honor. Thank you allman ratke Any further discussion There is none. Please call the roll Ryan Susha Vander wheel for hassled boron Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemay or And ratke 15 eyes motion carries 24 69 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 73 64 based on His non-cooperation with the committee the records of violations related to the license activities His ineligibility his status as a habitual law violator and has failed to reveal all violations alderman ratke Thank you your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion. The discussion is benjamin pappendick here this evening He's not here this evening your honor. Thank you allman ratke. Is there any further discussion? There is none. Please call the roll sushi Vander wheel for hassled boron Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemay or Ratke and ryan 15 eyes motion carries 24 70 by law and licensing recommended denying Taxi cab drivers license number 7403 Based on his record of violations related to the license activity his status as a habitual law violator And has failed to reveal all violations alderman ratke Vander wheel rehassled boron Berg Surda Davis Hannah Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemay or Ratke Ryan And sushi 15 eyes motion carries report of committees 7 24 71 by law and licensing Recommended denying class B fermented malt beverage license and class C wine license number 24 58 Based on the applicant's record of violations related to the license activity her failure to report all all violations and the committee's standards for the issuance of licenses Allman ratke. Thank you your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Second motion in second under discussion under discussions flaring the Perez here this evening Your honor, I moved to open the floor to miss Perez Insert motion in second under under discussion all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed motion carries miss Perez, would you please step up? Good evening council members with all due respect to the council. I'm requesting a liquor license for a restaurant I intend to operate On 13th and michigan and shabuagan I have applied for a beer and wine license and was refused due to pest incidents at el-paraiso bar, which I operated over a year ago and it's now closed I take fully responsibility for the incidents and citations that occurred at that site Unfortunately, I cannot undo them But what I can do Is not let this happen again in the future. I have learned a big lesson Mr. Soul Mexican restaurant will be a different kind of establishment. I opened the restaurant march 14th Of 07. I am not into the bar business anymore This restaurant is a great is in a great location, which it used to be where tajanos on 14 in michigan However, I need a liquor license to be successful Without a license. I will have a slim chance of success In the first three years that we were open 60 people came to the to dine And when they found out they were not able to have a before dinner drink. They walked out I hold a liquor license for mr. Soul also in Mexican restaurant in ozaki county In the village of belgium When I applied they questioned me and investigated the prior incidents in the shabuagan bar I explained Them what had happened? They were willing to give me an opportunity to acquire a liquor license I have had no incidents at the restaurant bar in belgium That would jeopardize my license I'm asking you to please review my application at this time I have lived and worked in shabuagan for over 35 years and have raised my children here They're all in college I have letters from interest parties to support my intentions, which they were passed out to you earlier I would like For you to review them at this time if it's possible I also have some pictures from the restaurant that I opened. I remodeled it I invested a lot of money in this place Can I pass? Sure And if I would be most grateful if you could please consider my request for a liquor license Thank you for your time Please hold on. Uh, mr. Perez almond Ryan. Do you have a question for her, sir? Or just a comment. Uh, it's a comment. You're out. Okay. Thank you It's a comment on the okay, please. Thank you Uh, I'm on the law and licensing your honor and uh when mr. Perez put in her application for this establishment She inadvertently left out some violations Which we on the committee were well aware of because those violations had come before the very same committee not too long ago Ms. Perez has or miss uh, uh, Perez has has invested a lot of of her personal Money herself into this this Uh Venture and I hate to see anybody that is trying to do something good Not be able to do that So I I believe that we should give miss Perez a chance That we should give her a license With the past violations that she had in town I do believe that It should be issued initially as if possible a temporary license Or issued under the understanding that any violations may result in a In a termination of that license Thank you. You would need to make a motion through the effect. Would you like to do that? Yes, your honor. I would Is there a second to that motion second now we have another discussion And we have uh some lights over directly Thank you your honor. Um I have a motion all written out here and I think the motion here I'm going to read what I have here. Maybe olden ryan would withdraw his motion at that point What I would like to do with this, um We're very well aware of miss perez's Violations. I've been sitting on the law enlist paper two years She does have some unpaid fines that she owes to the city So I want to see these paid before we even go any further with with any of this but I would make a motion if I could to Refer this back to the law licensing committee of the new council And issue her a provisional license for 60 days if the clerk would agree to that because that's solely at the discretion of the city clerk And without any type of a probationary period where we could work with miss perez and at least get her up and running and see What's going to happen there now? This is not a liquor license life. She had an elf for yuzio This is simply a class b beer in a class c wine license And right now there's really I think we have one liquor license available But I think this would be a fair compromise to just see if we are going to have any You know further problems with with this established with miss perez It's a totally different type of establishment and that's what i'm looking at here And that's what i look at in the committee in the committee. I said this is not a bar as she had run before this is a restaurant It's a whole different type of venture Restaurants as paulette said earlier with the highland house as a tent They don't they don't stay up until in the morning generally they usually close by 10 11 o'clock at the latest So that would be if all and ryan would withdraw his motion I would make the most refer back to committee it sits there held until the provisional license is Just what to expire law licensing at that time would Visit the issue and an Issue of nick the report of committee favorable and not they were till the council at that point in time Thank you if I may add may add you can accomplish that with the motion tonight instead of running around back to the committee Bringing it back to the council that can be included in all man ryan's motion if he desires to amend his Yes, your honor. I will amend the motion to include Or to include all of the brack's Recommendations But not referring it back you're saying Okay, are we clear on that? Okay We had to do this and issue the Now referring it back. We've you the alderman recce wanted to refer it back to the new Law licensing committee correct Of memory and then the purpose of that was so the temporary could be issued And there would be a two-month time period between the temporary and the permanent Is a is a trial basis, which I don't think is a bad idea It will not interrupt Mrs. Perez's business And they will be looked at at that point I don't uh It's it's a Situation that we you know it is it is a new committee. So I don't know what the answer is Thank you old and rice uh turn McLean. Thank you honor What been proposed is provisional license, which statute provides for that the city clerk can grant pending The decision by the council Really, it's not a temporary license if you grant a license that's a permanent license uh, so I think what I'm hearing from both alderman ryan and alderman radki is Provide some mechanism for Like a probationary period I think To do that You really don't want to take action on the license as a council So I think referring it back to the committee of the Either the current committee or the committee of the new council I think would be appropriate the provisional is good for 60 days assuming the clerk is As willing to grant that But I think the council can't grant the provisional license or a temporary license you grant a license that's good for a year And I'm not sure if you're ready to do that at this point All right follow up. I thank you your honor if it would be agreeable to the city clerk to uh grant the provisional license which would be for her responsibility and her decision I would like to read further this back to committee in that case Is there a second to that Under discussion on the referral excuse me alderman. I'm sorry sitting on the right. Are you to the new council or to the current council? To the new council Thank you. Won't you refer back any more discussion? I see some lies on the vendor world that you want to contribute to this. Please do Thank you, honor I'm not sure where I'm going to stand with referring it back to committee because This is what I think we should do I'm all for compromise and I'm also for second chances and this is for A fermented bulk beverage malt beverage license and class C wine license so What I think we should do tonight is pass this and if she has problems We're going to find out about it and we can pull her license anytime Or or is it when we give it for a year and I asked do we give it for a year and we can't Pull it I guess I would ask the city clerk that because I guess I was under the impression that we could pull it If there was a violation to her license the uh The resolution that has been moved in second to put upon it to be put upon as pastor says to deny So if you want to approve that needs to be a separate motion, okay You've done it before but just so you were clear on that the motion on the floor now Was to accept and adopt but then There's a subsequent motion made to refer back Where we're at now is a motion to refer back Only if you don't want that refer back and you want to do what almond bender wheel says vote No, if you want to refer it back to committee to the new council vote. Yes If I could just ask was it was my theory, right? that After you give it for a year, can you take it away or? Attorney McLean council can revoke or suspend the license Pursuant to do process, you know once the license has been granted then they're you can't just unilaterally take it away as you You would have to provide an opportunity for hearing and have a quasi judicial hearing if if the applicant wished that If you don't grant the license now and the clerk issues of probationary then the difference would be You wouldn't have to grant the license 60 days from now and you wouldn't have to go through a hearing process. You could deny that unilaterally without Any right through a hearing so But you're correct that if you granted it today You can take it back, but there's a there's a process that you would have to go through in order to do that Okay, thank you. If I could just make one last comment, please continue. Thank you, honor Is it the fact that she that she has a license in Belgium speaks volumes to me So i'm going to vote against referring it to committee because I would like to see us give her the license give her a second chance and I would hate to see us have a quasi judicial hearing and take her license away In the next year, but I'd like to give her that second chance that we we don't have to do that Thank you. Thank you On the motion to refer back only I've got alderman wanted my own blinking first Thank you, your honor I'm also going to vote no one referring it back because I do agree with alderman verhaselt That this letter from the village of belgium city clerk Saying that there's been no problems whatsoever means a lot to me you meant alderman venerable Yes, thank you. Thank you Next blinking light alderman clay units I I just had a question for madame city clerk if she had some difficulty managing this Um, this would be any problem managing it from your point of view. I'm city clerk In this motion there still is a 60 day provisional license. I have a problem with that If because you have to go, you know, you had this is this rc is to deny the license Now if someone were to come in to get a provisional license for me that's authorized by state statute I would not issue that based on the fact that the committee has now decided to deny recommending denying to council I would not feel comfortable leaving that word provisional in there if in fact the council is going to say something like a Temporary or something. I have no jurisdiction over that. I have a jurisdiction over issuing a provisional based on a license that's being granted If they're not to be granted recommending not granting I wouldn't issue a provisional just plain and simple Like that's my policy. I don't issue it if I know there's issues It's coming to council council can ultimately decide to change the recommendation of law and licensing committee But until that point I would not issue a provisional so provisional word in there Causes me some concern And it's procedure the only way that sue Madam city clerk could consider that at least in my mind would be to file 24 71 And then let her proceed with that on the motion to refer back to committee only alderman barn There's a lot of light blinking. So bear with me. We'll get to you. Thank you your honor Am I permitted to give up to give some as a member of law and licensing committee? Am I am I allowed to get some input on this matter right now on the matter to refer back only Um Well, I want to give some input on the report that we got from Assistant attorney chuck adams and also lieutenant chef hauser Whenever it's appropriate for me to do that. I'd like to speak to that If this motion passes and gets referred there won't be a need to talk But if it doesn't then we go back to the original motion to accept and adopt All right, that would be the appropriate time. All right. Thank you. Thank you Okay, okay, we've got alderman henna And Who wrote from st. Mary's parish He was up here in sheboygan for about 10 years So I certainly respect his opinion and I'm I'm certain he doesn't uh does not write these letters As a matter of course Alderman Ryan your next Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, I think to miss pares's uh Good fortune here with the modeling of this council. I would uh like to uh Vote against a temporary vote against uh referring it back to the committee and uh, I would uh vote against denying the license uh To uh, mrs. President. I think we should give her a license this evening. Thank you. Thank you, old man. Ryan One more we have all men rec on the motion to refer back to committee. Thank you, your honor The reason I was looking at this motion was because We've had some difficulties in committee coming to a consensus and we've come to the council floor tonight The reason I look at it this way was because Concerns of alderman van der wheel if we have to go to a quasi judicial hearing that does take time That does cost the city money and things. I was just trying to find a more palatable way to Try and the consensus of this council looks like they want to just simply not Re-refer it which is fine by me. I voted originally committee To grant this license and uh, I'm very comfortable with granting it tonight as a second chance because again as I said It is simply a different type of establishment than what she's had previously. Thank you. Thank you There are no more lights on the motion to refer back to committee only please call the roll Madam city clerk the city 60 day provisional license. That's kind of out of the motion. Totally should I erase that? This is to refer to lawn licensing of the new council Rehastled boron Berg Serta Davis Hannah Kittleson Clay Eunice Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Ryan Susha and vander wheel 15 no's Motion carries all of them sushi Thank you your honor. Um, I have a point of order question reports of committees It's my understanding are either voted up or they're voted down. There's no amending them. Is that correct? This is what I would what you need to do and move to file and then Madam city clerk has the option to grant the provisional license So if we move to file and then the vote is No That's basically saying that We would support her getting the license or she would just it doesn't matter what we do with this document She needs to come back in and apply for vote to file means you're not denying so it's still there That's what I believe. Madam city clerk was saying that if you pass this then that's a signal to her That you can't issue that unless she's authorized by some state statute Okay, Madam city clerk. Did you wish to speak? I think alderman ratke is looking to say something I think alderman ratke is looking to say something Alderman ratke Thank you your honor at this time. I would implore the council to simply Let's take the vote and deny this this license and then I'll make a motion to go the other direction with it Because there is a little bit we have to add to that motion, which I know how important it's getting at because I've got the sheet here And uh, so If I would I'd like to ask the council to just hold off and uh, we'll make the motion to move forward under the granting Thanks for granting the license I would ask that the council Vote to deny all you need to make a motion that asks. What is your motion? Well, we start a motion to forward to deny the license So i'm asking the council to defeat that motion with a no vote and then I'll we make the motion here What's a few added things? Does everybody understand that? Okay, we've got lights blinking again On the motion to accept an adopt and deny that's the discussion alderman barn sir Thank you your honor, uh, I think it now is appropriate for me to make a couple comments on what was said in law and license Uh for me personally in law and license uh to deny this license was not even a close call and I I value the opinion of Deputy city city attorney chuck adams And also I ask lieutenant chef hauser from the police department who sits in on all of our law and licensing Uh Committee meetings as to what his opinion was and he had grave reservations in having this license granted Uh I'm not going to go into the particular incident But there was one incident at her establishment that was that he thought was you know quite serious Uh, maybe I should discuss it There was a patron that was uh was carrying a concealed semi automatic weapon And I also believe uh, there was a cocaine bust in that in that in that situation The other thing is the fines that she owes Uh amount to almost sixteen hundred dollars and that to me shows Irresponsibility knowing that those fines are out there and apparently making no no attempt to pay these fines Or even making arrangements to get on a payment plan from these for for these fines If that's happened since the last meeting that maybe has happened But it's my understanding when she came to the committee these sixteen hundred dollars and fines were not on a payment plan at all. So Uh In committee it was not even a close call However with these these letters that she's presented some tonight these reference letters uh tend to uh Meet a reconsider and give her a second chance, but uh I just want the council to know that these violations were very very serious And there was a lot of concern both by the assistant as city attorney and lieutenant cheffhauser, and I uh value their Opinion highly in these committee meetings. Thank you Thank you all on board All room on sushi I'll I'll get to the other lights in a minute. Thank you your honor Um, just the point of order question that I brought up before I don't think has clearly been answered because it sounds like We're going to vote on the accepting adopting of this report of committee And if we choose not to accept it I believe alderman radke plans on making a subsequent motion and i'm just questioning if you can do that to report of committee because It's my understanding that they're not amendable Turn clean do you have a comment on that? Yeah, I think wouldn't be amending the report committee to be voting the report of committee down And then you could make a new motion grant the license Okay, thank you Okay, thank you. Thank you. We have two more lights all my vendor will on the motion Thank you, honor Uh, we have dealt with With this individual before when I was in long licensing I'm aware of of what happened And and I'm hoping that with this new Restaurant that she'll have a different clientele And she can't get her license I'm under the impression that she can't get her license Unless she pays her fines So we'll get the money And she'll get her license and she'll get a second chance Thank you. Thank you. Alderman redkin Thank you your honor To address the fines I was going to ask city attorney McLean. We have about $1,600 in fines If I recall payment plans are not acceptable for these types of This this is you have to pay the thing in full So even if we were to grant this license tonight, which we can do in a subsequent motion She still would need to pay every nickel of these fines Before that license could be granted by the clerks office by I believe that's part of the ordinance City attorney McLean might be able to answer that for me. Thank you. Thank you redkin Would you like to weigh on that? I believe that's correct. Although I do believe that and I don't think this code book is Is up to date on that there there was Was some consideration put in Where individual couldn't pay The entire amount of the fine for For some reason that Was in our office's discretion to review that and come up with some payment plan, but I guess absent some Pretty strong evidence and here obviously the individual has a business Indicates that they spent substantial money in the business. I would presume there'd be sufficient dollars there It's not an agency situation to To pay off the fines before the license is granted. That's the standard language in the ordinance Thank you. Turn McLean all of them in rec he this Is to follow second last time It is the policy of the committee when we do run into these situations We send it off to council and we tell the writing committee as part of our motion that will grant this when these fines are paid We you know, just simply don't give them that option All the mayor Thank you, your honor, and I definitely am a person that believes in second chances And this restaurant is not a little corner tavern where you're going to attract Maybe people you don't want in a nice restaurant Her food is delicious, and I know that this restaurant with her running it is going to be a a plus to our downtown Okay On the motion to accept and adopt 24 71 There is no more discussion Please call the roll and this will be to deny the license if you vote. Yes, she will be denied if you vote no Then the subsequent motion can be made. Please call the roll boron burg serda davis hannah kittleson cleanness mani meyer montemay or ratki ryan susha Vanderwheel verhaselt Two eyes 13 Motion fails halloween ratki Thank you, your honor that I would make a motion to grant the license to clean the prison Motion to second to grant on a discussion There is none. Please call the roll Hold on burg serda davis hannah kittleson cleanness mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan hi susha Vanderwheel verhaselt and borne hi 14 eyes one no Motion carries 24 72 by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators license number 73 60 Based on his non-cooperation with the committee as well as his record of violations related to the license activity Alderman ratki. Thank you, your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion in second under discussion under discussions chad plets here this evening He is not here this evening your honor. Thank you. All in ratki any more discussion There is none. Please call roll burg serda davis hannah kittleson cleanness mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan susha Vanderwheel verhaselt hi and borne hi 15 eyes motion carries 24 73 through 24 75 to be referred Ordinances introduced 10 24 76 and 77 lies over 24 78 to be referred Matters laid over 11 24 46 has been acted on 23 35 resolution number 20 250 607 by alderman ratki ryan borne burg and verhaselt authorizing officers and employees of the city of shabuagan to sell fermented bulk beverages soda and water on behalf of the mayor's international committee at fountain park on july 6 2007 in the anticipated celebration of german knights in a concert in the band shell Alderman ratki Thank you your honor. Can I take 23 43 with it? Yes. Okay on 23 35 I move that the resolution be put upon its passage And a general ordinance number 23 43 general is number 91 a That the general ordinance be put upon its passage There's a motion in second under discussion Alderman playunas Yes, thank you your honor in regard to general ordinance number 91 a 0607 It's a question that's been raised why this was not handled in park and forestry as well Why this ordinance because they oversee parks? And this is an ordinance relating to activity in the park. Can anyone answer that question? There's any Alderman ratki Thank you your honor the reason it was handled in law and licensing is because when it comes to the liquor licenses beer and things of that nature that's strictly handled through there and This is just to clean up some of the ordinances to help the mayor's international committee out make this just a little bit easier for other groups to participate Thank you. Alderman Ryan. I mean Alderman ratki. Alderman Ryan I thank you your honor If I may add here just a little it was a little side note german knight was a was a Festival that was already on the books So german knight was taken for this because it's already there And the band that is going to be playing is known as the britain. So we're going to have german knight with the britain. It's fairly interesting Very good. Thank you Okay 2335 and 2343 to be put upon their passage. Please call the roll Serta davis Hannah Kittleson clayunas mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan sushi Vander wheel for hasselt boran and burg 15 eyes motion carries 2344 general ordinance number 92 a 0607 by alderman sushi montemayor Kittleson and mani Amending the code so as to delete one star keeper at the municipal service building and create a new position of Starkeeper assistant janitor alderman sushi. Thank you your honor. I move that the general ordinance be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion Being none, please call the roll davis Hannah Kittleson clayunas mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan sushi Vander wheel for hasselt boran burg and serta 15 eyes motion carries other matters authorized by law 2479 will be referred to salary and grievances 2480 an rc by public protection and safety recommend in filing documents submitting a communication from the chief of police Of the city of plimoth expressing his concerns with the proposal to reduce the size of the is department As it would be detrimental to their operations Alderman uh, Vander wheel Thank you your honor. I move the rc be accepted and adopted Second Motion in second under discussion There is none. All those in favor say aye. Aye any opposed? motion carries 2481 a resolution by alderman meyer directing a public hearing regarding the change in the text of the zoning ordinance Ordinance to change the section of the use of required off-street parking areas. It's been a long night That's a long day um alderman montemayor Thank you your honor. I move the resolution be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion There being none all those in favor say aye. Aye any opposed? motion carries Alderman susha. Do you have a comment? I'm the next one next one um 2250 I'll call to the clerk's desk 2250 rc number 440 4070607 by law and licensing recommending prohibited elected city officials from seeking or accepting employment with the city within two years After leaving the elected office and passing the substitute ordinance alderman susha Thank you your honor. Um before a motion is made. I just wanted to get a clarification I know that at the beginning of the council year we adopted roberts rules of order And today when I was going through roberts rules of order I did not find called to the clerk's desk anywhere in the roberts rule of order So I question um Where do we find this motion? Will your direct that question to me or me or Either madam city clerk or city attorney. You can tell me where that is. I'd appreciate it City attorney mclean. Thank you, your honor This isn't a motion. This is a notice to the council that The matter is going to be brought up before the council the appropriate motion Once it's called to the clerk's desk would be to Move that these documents be Under roberts rules be discharge That salary and grievance committee be discharged from further consideration of these documents So that the council can take action on I believe that's the rationale for them being called to the clerk's desk. This has been I've been city attorney for 20 years This has been the process that the council has used The council each year adopts the rules of the prior council They don't necessarily adopt roberts rules of order. They adopt the rules of the prior council Which includes roberts rules of order, but uh The call to the clerk's desk as I indicated is not a motion in and of itself. It's It provides in roberts rules that if If it's noticed on the agenda Since the motion would change action already taken by the assembly the assembly Took action to refer these documents to salary and grievance Then it requires a two-thirds vote or a majority vote when notice of the intent to make the motion has been given at a previous meeting Or in the call of the present meeting And I believe that's the intent of this is to give notice of In the call of the present meeting that this matter is going to be coming up for action So in my opinion it would require a majority vote The vote would have to be to remove these documents from the committee to the council Then it would require separate action to do whatever the council would decide to do with With the documents I'm familiar with um this charge of a committee And I guess I just have a question with the way it's worded on here Is this posted is this a legal notice is the way it's worded on here. Is that legal? I believe so Okay, so that's that's a definite yes In my opinion it is. Yes. Okay. Thank you Omen Ryan Thank you your honor I had this call to the city clerk's desk because it was referred to salary and grievances and was not put upon the agenda Therefore that is why I did that and I would like that voted on to bring into the council at this time Well, uh, we've got some lights. I'm going to Uh Open the floor to two more alderman and then somebody needs to make a motion To discharge the committee Okay, but let me let me just Two more people two more alderman sushi another comment on that or not. No Okay, all right alderman Did you have a comment? Thank you your honor At salary and grievance. I guess this hasn't been addressed by us yet because we've been just a little busy with Table of organization and the contracts and I would imagine that's simply why it hasn't come Through salary and grievance yet Thank you Okay, as you heard call to the city's clerk Was accomplished by an alderman Either calling the city clerk's office or city attorney's office What you need to do is make a motion to discharge the committee's charge pretty pretty much because this assembly referred it to salary and grievance Apparently the feeling is that salary and grievance is not acting on it adequately in in due time Therefore your choice is do you want to discharge The referral to salary and grievance if you do there needs to be a motion to the effect and a vote taken On that present birth Yes, thank you and I would move to discharge the salary and grievance committee from consideration of this question One or two questions there's two of them there two questions both questions the motion is to discharge salary and grievance From considering the referral that was made to them prior At a prior time but by this assembly And the motion is on 2250 and 2257 and we have that under discussion alderman susha Thank you your honor I would just like to elaborate a little more on what elder person montemire has said The salary and grievance committee has been exceptionally busy, especially at the beginning part of this year Our top priority was getting the union contract settled Another top priority is working on the reorganization chart which has taken up a tremendous amount of our time um, we also Made a promise to the police union to take up the issue of looking at hsa accounts And that came out through the negotiations the salary and grievance committee made Made a commitment to that union that we were going to look at that issue before the council year ended That takes precedence over this document the way this document is worded It will apply to the alderman that were on the council last year It will apply to the alderman that are here tonight and it will apply to all the alderman in the future There is no sense of urgency for this to be pushed through one of the other things um that needs to be addressed in In relationship to this document is also considering an anti-nepotism policy within the city We have over 10 of our city employees are related to each other There's a huge problem with morale because of the favoritism that is shown to the relatives And what I was planning on doing and I've talked to the chairman of the civil service commission Was I wanted to hold a joint meeting between salary and grievance and the civil service commission So they could be in on some of these decisions Because if you look at other communities oftentimes when you look at the anti-nepotism policy And the way we hire our summer help There's a lot of references to the civil service commission And I think when you're talking about the future of elected officials that we need some input from the civil service commission as well Because it's it's kind of a gray area. There's no clear cut line in regards to the role of salary and grievance and the civil service commission So i'm going to vote no to calling this to the city clerk's desk because I think here again you're Establishing a new precedence if you're going to pull documents out of committees I believe it's only been there for two committee meetings because we had higher Priority items that needed to be discussed our meetings have been running almost two hours And we hold them over the noon hour and we have to be sensitive to the alderman that need to go back to their day jobs So I would ask that you vote no, but in the event that it does pass and you choose to pull it back into this committee I'll make your motion to refer to civil service commission because I feel that We're not done with this and there's no sense of urgency like I said it applies to the alderman last year The one sitting here today and the ones that'll be here next year Thank you, miss usher allerman ryan Thank you your honor this has nothing to do With nepotism this has to do with cronyism, which is a different type of Hiring process I guess Um Alderperson sushia referred this to her salary grievances committee and then did not act on it um This council Will have a different makeup After the next meeting. I believe we only have one more meeting of this council Um, I called this, you know, basically when it was referred back to Salary agreements as I agreed with that because basically the only thing that needed to be done to this ordinance was to drop The word seek or seeking out of it Everybody I believe it understood that and for it to go to salary grievances and for that to happen I did not have a problem with therefore I agreed to it But it was when it wasn't acted upon it was not important enough for salary grievances to act upon I feel it is and therefore that's why I've called it here tonight And I want this committee to act on it. Would you explain all what you mean by cronyism? Chronyism your honor is a form of hiring practices where people will run for a a Public office possibly with the hopes of being advanced into a full-time position of Employment that they may gain out of their time Being a public official That is my entire Goal of this is to not have a situation where we have people running for public office Which is basically volunteer work at the salaries that that we get paid It's done. It's a it's a it's a privilege to do it It's a it's an honor to do it. It's it's something that you do for for the citizens to take that and to convolute it into Going from a elected position to a Position of full-time employment that may have been gained through your time as an elected official Um to tell you the truth, uh, it could result in nothing but but scandal Uh loss of public trust Etc. It's been done once before recently in this council It's been done once by a former mayor who went from being a mayor to being the director of transit Um To tell you the truth, uh, I didn't come on board here to get a city job And I don't intend to and I would hope nobody else would therefore. I think this needs to be acted upon We're here to serve as public servants. We're not here To get jobs. Thank you all on the bender wheel Thank you, honor Well, when we make our decisions we need the The most information possible to make the right decision for the citizens of sheboygan And it's from what I hear it seems like the reason we're even discussing this right now is failure to communicate and because of that i'm going to Send it back to the committee because I feel that if Communication would have been done with the chair that we wouldn't even be here right now. Thank you Thank you. I don't know all the cleaners Thank you, your honor I might be getting old and forgetting something But I thought we did discuss this and I can remember a vote on it It was an even vote and there were two of us Four and two against but I'm not sure if It was tabled because of that or whatever But we did bring it up in our sale agreements meeting. I don't know if it wasn't reflected in the minutes or what but Um, I don't know that there there was addressed Thank you Oldman hannah Hi Thank you, mayor. I think this this bill this motion here has everything to do with public perception Out that there are no conflicts And I think it's very simple I think the language is is quite understandable And I've gotten nothing but positive comments from my constituents That we need to move ahead with this Oldman Vanderheel second time Thank you, honor Now I'm concerned when When you have a tie vote on a committee Then it's stolen committee and basically if you don't act on it when you sign and die, then it just dies So I don't know what happened why there was a tie vote or where we're going with this But if Alderman sushi could explain that would be I do want to just weigh in a little bit Discharge in a committee Is a pretty drastic move you're you're setting a precedent that you're going to be referring to a committee And when you feel like it for whatever reason you're going to yank it back I certainly hope that alderman ryan is not implying that there's an alderman in this council now That is looking to get a job and this is why the urgency is here To discharge a committee after the committee has already made an effort To look at it and there was a tie vote because one person was absent when alderman was absent No one is denying Their job as a committee they've acted on them And I need to point this out because I got calls today About rumors and they made it clear to me that it was rumors That alderman sushi Was going to resign Sunday When that didn't happen That shot the rumor down the next rumor it popped up she's going to resign tonight before the meeting So she can get a job at city hall that didn't happen tonight I can guarantee you and the public That alderman sushi will not get a job with the city while i'm here This to me is an underhanded motion To deny a committee It's right and responsibilities simply because somebody Believes some alderman and the implication has been made is going to get a job After and I don't know if it's alderman burg you won't be here. I don't know if alderman sushi. I don't know Which alderman is going to be I probably wouldn't hire you either alderman burg The important thing is is that while I can understand your anxiety And perhaps a coming through rumor You need to understand the bigger picture and that is let the committee do its job The committee was asked and it was referred to them to do their job To yank it back in such a sharp period of time Is a bold dramatic move and it undermines The whole structure of our standing committees Alderman sushi Thank you your honor. I would just like to clarify Other person clayunas is right what she's recalling is The first time this came to committee before I came back to the council floor There were some amendments that were proposed and they died Ty vote two two then another motion was made and eventually it did pass and come back to the council But then when it got to the council floor It was realized that night that the way the document was written Meant that nobody in the room could ever run for office again So it was sent back to salary and grievance for more discussion and During that time when it was in the committee Along with doing all of these other things on the plate of salary and grievance I started doing more research into the matter Because when I was talking to the league of municipalities all of a sudden the topic of civil service commission came up And I looked up civil service commission and when you look into what they do Under rules and regulations it says the director of human resources shall assist the civil service commissioners in adapting rules and regulations To secure the best public service for the city Okay, so I called then the Chairman of the of this committee of the civil service commission and I said, you know Does this fall in your ballpark and he said I'm not sure but I'd like to discuss it with you And I'd like my committee to have the opportunity to discuss this as well So that's why I'm saying that either this entire document should be sent over to civil service commission because they're the ones that will be doing the interviewing and Deciding who to hire and who not to or do a joint committee A joint meeting between the two So I think that there's more information that came out Since the original vote, which was quite a while ago And I think that this should be discussed a little bit further and the recommendation Which should come back to council at a future date and I have to agree with the mayor that I think this is very dangerous If if we start pulling documents out of committees, you know, there are some things in You know the planning commission that I'd love to vote on before I leave But I know that's not proper procedures, so I'm going to leave them there. Thank you Alderman Ryan second time Thank you, mr. Mayor. Uh, first of all, I must clarify that this Is approximately three months old it's been bouncing around. This is nothing that came up Because alderman alderperson sushi or alderman burg is going to get a job This is something that Alderperson sushi referred back to salaries and grievances um Decided not to act upon because they were too busy It was already at salaries and grievances and the only thing that was pointed out Was that the word seeking probably needs to be taken out of it when she referred it back to salary and grievances I did not have a problem with that whatsoever because I figured they would take the word seeking out bring it back through It's done For this to be passed upon not put on the agenda two times Um, I do not believe any rumors innuendos, etc of people saying alderperson sushi is going to resign here or there This is not why this was done for her for for This to not be acted on two times before the end Of this council year I found to be Rather peculiar put it that way when everything else that went to that committee seemed to have been acted upon It was already at that committee once um I uh I must say that uh a lack of communication probably in this council and in your administration, sir Is probably the cause of some misunderstandings here But this was not brought forward by myself and alderman hannah originally To rectify any certain potential situation it was brought forward to To Avoid any Potential situations from ever occurring that could blemish this council or any future council Like had been done in the past. That's why this was done Um to kick it back again I think everybody here We know the word seeking needs to be taken out of it It can pass tonight. It's here. We're discussing it Celery grievances had their opportunity two times to amend it. They didn't do it Therefore I still Think we should take the vote on whether to take it out of salary grievances and back to the council. Thank you Yep. I'll hold them under hassle Thank you, mr. Chair I think alderman van der wheel hit it on the head here about 20 minutes ago was that If there's an issue where you feel something's not moving through committee It would be who the alderman to contact that chair As I was sitting here, I remember an example actually between alderman van der wheel and myself where I had concerns on committee the whole item That I thought wasn't moving along and I called him up and he explained where he had it set up in the agenda For future future meetings. So I think that's the way things need to operate Number two, I'd like to point out There's a state statute that is actually in place already to protect against alderman creating their own jobs while in office So we do have that but um also my background would say is If the best person is somebody who was just left office six months ago I'd like to have access to that person to hire that person I don't want to have my hands tied and say that I have to wait a year and a half. So Thanks. Thank you Alderman bohr and your next sir Thank you your honor I originally signed on uh this resolution with uh alderman's uh ryan Berg and hannah And when this was set and I have to be honest when this was set back back to salary and grievances I thought this was going to be taken care of and we were going to get it back the next meeting This easily could have went back to uh Also a law on licensing. We had it in law and licensing It could have went back to law and licensing and I think it would have been taken care of the next meeting Perhaps our agenda isn't quite as heavy But uh, you know, I was kind of disappointed to see that this wasn't uh Acted upon in an expedient manner for just a simple change. So I'm ready to move on and pass this. I think it's very important Alderman recti Thank you your honor for a point of clarification Ordinance, so this has not been sitting here for three months. The original is dated february the fifth 2007 That's the original by ryan and hannah But the point of the matter is if there's more information from the civil service commission that can be brought in It should go there. Let salaries and grievances do their job I'm proud of the fact that salaries and grievances to settle the union contracts out when I came here two years ago We were settling contracts for about a year and a half old. I recall at that time We have our current contracts addressed. They're dealing with hsa's with the police union Those are great items to be dealing with and they're great benefits for our employees They've been very busy in those meetings and Again any oversight or any problems with the committee chairman committee chairperson If you've got a problem with my committee come and talk to me ask me ask me why i'm not moving something If something's sitting there too long, but it just simply you snatch it out of the committee and bring it You know back to the council because it's been sitting there for three months. So it really hasn't Hey, I'm sorry. Um, so the what's the question right now the motion is to call to the clerk's desk I'd like to call that question then. Thank you I need a second for calling the question second Any discussion on all those in favor say aye. Aye Any opposed? Question has been called We will take a vote on 22 50 and 22 57 Is being called to the clerk's desk, which means that if it passes the council can Uh retrieve it from the committee that I referred to Initially Please call the roll Boren Borg Serta Davis Hannah Kittleson Clowness No Manny Meyer No Montemayor No Ratke No Ryan Sushia No Vanderwheel No Perhassled No Six eyes and nine nose Motion fails all of them. Sushia would you like to make a motion to refer back to a Civil service commission commission or it still sits in It's it's still it's still sits in the joint meeting with them. Okay, you can call them. Okay All right other matters attorney mclean 2482 is a communication from bernard erin 1415 school avenue fed up with the littering in his yard allegedly coming from a nearby business We refer to public protection and safety 2483 is a communication from jack ashenbach 1719 north 20th street requesting that a two-hour sign be put in front of his house on the south side of his land We refer to public protection and safety 2484 is An arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2007 and june 30 2008 that will go to law and license 2485 is a resolution authorizing the finance committee to study and report back to the council on the potential use Of a portion of the city's undedicated unreserved fund balance that will be referred to finance Motion the secondary adjourn all in favor say aye and you pose we stand adjourned