 I read on our account for Ghani Adams says our curse politicians frustrating the Yoruba agenda and the National Assembly informs us of a wave of attacks threatening Nigeria's existence. Well this is Plus Politics and I am Marianna Korn. Yoruba land Ghani Adams has vowed to curse politicians frustrating the Yoruba agenda. You alleged that prominent politicians in the Southwest have hijacked the struggle for the actualization of the Yoruba nation. Are Adams said the struggle for Oduwa Republic is a legitimate one and it's a right of all Yoruba people. Speaking at the weekly Oduwa People's Congress OPC Stakeholders meeting held at the Oduwa House in Ikeja Lagos he accused some prominent politicians who he described as traitors to the Yoruba cause for true liberation. Joining me to discuss this is Femi Lawson and Nelson Akujimi, both political analysts. Thank you very much for joining us gentlemen. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Great. I'm going to start with you Mr. Femi Lawson. Do you have any idea what the Yoruba agenda is and if you do please explain to us. Well the Yoruba nation agenda which has been termed as a succession call by so many whether you like it or not is a legitimate agitation which is a direct you know product of the refusal of the Nigerian states as presently constituted to listen to our citizens. Now year in year out patriotic Nigerians, nationalist statesmen and even the ordinary citizens have continued to demand that we restructure this country onto the path of true federalism. But because the operatives of the Nigerian state have continued to enjoy you know the dividends of what is called democracy as imposed on us by the military constitution of 1999. They have reviews to yield to the demand of those calling for restructuring and that is what today has given birth to the call for Yoruba nation. Not only that for you know agitations like you know the creation of the Biafra states and some other emerging you know call that I like mine. I think we must also respect the fact that the right to self-determination is an internationally you know recognized right of the people under the UN charter. But as much as some of us do not believe that it is proper for us to you know dismember the union called Nigeria I think rather than criticizing those calling for the Yoruba nation we should rather look at those issues that have necessitated this call. Interesting in 2003 I'd just like to do some history with you. There was a human rights watch report titled OPC a continuing threat to security and it was a 58 page report if I remember clearly and it was subtitled fighting violence with violence and of course in parentheses OPC. It provided detailed accounts of killings and abuses of human rights by members of the OPC at the time in fact since the coming to power of President Ulusha Gwon Basantja at the time and now we're talking about something that's similar to it so I'm wondering all of this was done in the name of self-determination could this be a revival of that same OPC that the human rights watch was talking about? No, you see what we have today is very very unusual it is most sophisticated and it was not in any way comparable to the agitations of the old draft people's Congress as it were you know during the Basantja era. Today we have a call for cessation that is not just led by single organization like OPC was doing but now by a coalition of you know very you know coalition of different groups of Yoruba origin. Today we have people like a professional of international history Professor Banja Kitoye you know somebody who was a senator during the Second Republic you know being part and leading one of the groups demanding for cessation from Nigeria that's the Lana Odua. So people should not narrow this call to what was obtainable then today we have the likes of Sunday Goal leading you know some fronts we have the likes of some Yoruba young groups today we have the diaspora organizations you know owned by educated well connected Nigerians you know funding the agitation for this you know Yoruba nation I think we have all seen this all over the social media and not the conventional media our Nigerians in diaspora are mobilizing for some support for this call only this morning we were reading the media how the IPOB has just engaged not a publicity firm to the tune of about 300 million era to propagate its agenda so this cannot be compared to those days you know I's reported by the International Rights Commission and the government of Nigeria as to why people were calling for cessation. This is an unusual moment this is a product of extreme frustration on the part of Nigeria and I think the government must take this more seriously than it has ever done. Let me go to Mr Kujimi I want to find out do you agree with this stand do you support it do you think this is the solution to Nigeria's problems today. Yes thank you very much I'm very happy that on this program this evening you have two men of Yoruba extraction you talked about the Yoruba agenda which my colleague at the other end you know spoke extensively about and as a Yoruba man I must tell you very clearly that this agenda is unknown to millions of Yoruba process this is a political agenda being nurtured by a particular group of persons who have been politically displaced by the every by the political system since 2015 and they have shown that they will make the country ungovernable for Nigerian government and its people. So when people come out to mouth you know cessation are what they have viewed it's a reflection of their political interest a lot of us have asked where and when did the Yoruba sit down in an assembly and you know confer the rights on this persons or group to agitate on the course of action with regards to their political destiny. Never it never happened. Can I ask you a question? I'm sorry can I ask you a question I hate doing this but let me just ask you a question because you say at no time have the Yoruba nation or the Yoruba people sat down to converge and talk about or mandate these people to do what they they say they're doing but then has the Yoruba people or have they come together to also speak against what's happening now have the oblasts the old knees have they said anything about this movement at any point in time even now that it's brewing again because it's not so okay for you to just say that you know the Yoruba people don't support it but have they also come out to voice their let's say disregard for this group or the fact that they do not agree with what they're going on with. Well I think you I think you must recognize the fact that the oblasts are religious institutions that should be our political I think they are they are they are they are silenced on it could be as a result of the fact that they don't want to dive into the politics of the matter which they are very much aware of. But if the name of the Yoruba nation is dragged into this propaganda which you are implying or a group of people who are trying to make the nation ungovernable then should the people who are leaders of this group not be speaking up against it if it is something that they do not subscribe to? Well I think it was recognized the fact that we operated constitutional democracy in which we have elected representatives elected political institutions and the political institutions are speaking up. If the traditional institutions have not spoken about people clamoring for cessation it's because they recognize that people have a right to voice their feelings and also you must recognize that in a democracy where the majority will have their way the minority must have their say. These are the minority who are detaining. So it's within their rights. Where we concede to them the right to agitate for wherever they want to go. Those of us who have not come to condemn them recognize their right but their right does not give them the authority to clamor on behalf of millions of Yoruba persons who are not members of their political party or their political interests who believe that the problems confronting Nigeria is the problem that we all have to sit together without political or religious inclinations and you know find a collective solution to it. So if those persons believe that the only way to you know to who drink the people to follow the line of action is to call for cessation that oh we are fighting for the Yoruba nation I can tell you for free. How many Yoruba persons these persons are never fighting the interests of the Yoruba people. They are fighting for their own political interests and we must recognize that that is the right which they have and also we also that are not in the same boat with them. Also I would like to tell them very clearly that look yes Nigeria is presently going through some tough times but tough times don't last but tough people do. Okay I did remind Mr. Lawson about the fact that something similar brewed from 1999 and in 2003 the Human Rights Watch wrote a 58-page report about it. Now and I did ask him if this was not a revival of that but but again my question to you it's similar to what I asked him it's what's the guarantee that what happened on the president of Basangor will not rate ugly head again because now you have said that if the traditional and the religious institutions in that region do not speak up there are elected officials. The elected officials obviously are saying oh let's come together let's act for this let's fight for restructuring even though we don't see them really making moves to for restructuring but if the government keeps quiet and just pays no attention and this becomes what it was in 2003 and in 1999 shouldn't we be trying to nib it in the bud now instead of just keeping quiet because everybody has rights but then there is a saying that where one man's rights you know stops another man's begins so how do we deal with that? Well we like I said earlier we are pretty conscious of democracy in which where your right stops is where mind begins. The laws are very very clear. It does not give you the right to trample on mind. So if these persons go into that same mode of 1999 to 2003 that warranted the then president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to read the royal tax and order the police to shoot at sites. I'm sure you know that law still exists that if people are a threat to the life of the national security the security agencies know the right to do and that is also what we are saying that look in as much as you have your rights don't allow your right to push you to the level that you want to a friend on my own rights and the state is very much aware that the responsibility of the state is to maintain law and order so long as these are dictators and not undermining national security or well and good but if no man they turn in that direction I'm sure the state has a responsibility to rein them in and that is what every peace loving Nigerian you know is demanding that look this persons if their acts constitute a threat to national security the state must do the need for the state must not treat them with kiss gloves because you know the law is no respecter of anybody. Okay let me go back to you Mr. Lawson because this seems to be a direct attack on what you believe in and what you stand for. So what's your take on what he has said because he's saying that he's a real bad person you just not know when and where the Eurobank nation you know elected those people and the people that you support to speak for the Eurobank nation and of course as much as you have a right to ask for a secession or rather you know and to ask for rights as an indigenous people you also have to be certain that this is what the whole Eurobank nation is asking for. The problem we have that has led us to this kind of agitation like I stated initially you know is the you know the inability of the oppressive of the Nigerian state to always say the truth abide by the realities and feel the pulse of the people and sometimes you don't blame those oppressive of government you must also blame their supporters you know like my colleague Nelson who we always justify sometimes things that are not justifiable that emboldens in Nigeria state not to do the right thing. For such weeks the constitutional democracy the constitution has continued to refer to at what point did you and I or our representative seek to make that constitution. It was assumed to have been you know a popular opinion of a group of people and that is why today we have a constitution that is one of the worst in the world called the Nigerian 1999 constitution upon which this government and previous successive government has committed to operate and suppress the will of Nigerians. Are there no better ways Mr. Lawson to get the government to engage the government because you're saying that the reason why you're having this is because government officials and the leaders leadership of this country have refused to harken to the yearnings of the people. Are there no better ways that threaten for secession? This government in particular does not believe that anything exists as a people and that is the truth this is one of the only countries in the world where the opinion or the opinions of the citizens matters not. Let me tell you something I am telling you that what we're experiencing as the agitation for Yoruba nation today whether you call it unpopular or not whether you say we the Yoruba people have not made to make this demand or not as government is you a prominence only few days ago leaders of the governing ruling party in the Southwest the APC met on this same issue of this call for secession and telling you that few days ago the entire capital city of understate Akura was on a lockdown for five hours because of the rally organized by these people calling for you know the Yoruba nation so we cannot continue to trivialize this kind of issues and begin to make an attempt to see it as an agenda and let me also emphasize this the attempt to call those agitation for Yoruba nation as people who lost out in previous elections it's mischievous the truth is that a lot of those people were not active politicians they were not able politically aligned in the previous elections but today the realities of all the national constitution and the Cuban regime are filled and continue to increase this kind of agitations how can we just begin to wish this away like a near agitation of people within a political interest group I think it is unfair that is it is not true I'm going to come back to you with more questions but we'll take a quick break you still watching plus politics on plus TV Africa right after the break more conversation on the Yoruba nation we'll be right back thank you for staying with us to still plus politics on plus TV Africa and we're still talking about the I don't come for he is the leader of the people's Congress in Nigeria and he has been speaking tough about those who are against the Yoruba nation he's calling them traitors and that he will curse them but well joining us to have this conversation have been Nelson Akujimi and Femi Lawson thank you gentlemen once again for being back with us now Femi I want to ask a question before I go back to Akujimi because you have continuously said that government is not listening government is not listening they don't consider they do not value our opinion but it's self-determination the answer to our problems it is I am not an advocate of self-determination as of now but the first thing we must understand self-determination is a right it is entrenched in the UN Charter and people have rights at whatever time they so wish to say no we don't want to be part of this marriage that are constituted you know presumably by God in the holy but early books are subject to divorce so why should we think no I'm not in any marriage made by some colonialist it is wrong but I want to see that what I've pointed what we are seeing as they call for cessation today is the inability of the government and those operating the government their sympathizers their supporters to agree with the fact that the system is not working as it should be and as long as we continue to have a false system and unproductive governance and you know unproductive this constitution like the next country operating we'll continue to have more agitations for cessation or even worse agitation if case not taking and that is why I don't want to believe this cause are illegal or wrong they are legitimate cause they are legitimate demands occasioned by the refusal of the Nigerian state to do the right thing and that is it. Mr. Kujimi we talk about unity peace nation building I mean Nigeria is at a point in its life where we are facing all sorts and I always make you know I always make the analogy of the fact that if you you were to spin your pen around the Nigerian flag or the Nigerian map rubber anywhere that pen points to there is some form of insecurity or agitation and but then our leaders keep saying oh we need to come together we need to unite I mean why can't we just as a people if our leaders are not listening why do we as the people not show a united front instead of calling for secession I mean if if the people are united that the leadership is not as much as the people the people show a united front then the leadership doesn't have a choice but to do what we say but wouldn't that work instead of us asking for secession I'm imagining if every region in the country decides that we want to you know go our different or separate ways what they what then will be left of the country we call Nigeria. Well I am so familiar that this agitation is a product of the people. It's very difficult for us to hear you Mr. Ekujimi it's it's very difficult to hear you I don't know if it's where you are can you move a little bit away from where you are the connection is really poor. I've just moved away. All right good we can hear you now. I said this agitation is a product of just a few groups of cases and like you all we all know people cannot sleep we all cannot sleep and think in one direction. The diversity is the variety of life or variety despite of life. So if these persons are satisfied with the status quo a lot of Nigerians are also but they are determined that look this is a problem that must be confronted and not a situation whereby we use a problem which is part of human existence. You know to cause civil strife. You cannot say because you are dissatisfied with a marriage that the most appropriate thing for you is to take to the streets. When there's a problem in the marriage. The husband or the wife. It is expected in any society that will come together and think about what are the problems out we resolve it. And if they are unable to resolve it then people who are elderly to them in the institutions of marriage will come counseling. It is only when that is unable to achieve the resolution that the marriage could go otherwise. We are saying here clearly that these agitators for session that they don't represent the generosity of the people. They represent their own interests. This is all about politics. That is very clear. I am a Yoruba man. I have never been consulted in any way about the Yoruba. And I am asking what is even the meaning of the Yoruba gender. And even if we have, if you have the Yoruba, I don't believe in it. So if you have somebody trying to blackmail or intimidate me by saying he's going to cause. If he is going to cause, he's not going to cause me because he's not my maker. It's cause we have no effect. So what we are saying clearly is that, even as much as they have the right to agitate, they should please do it within the conference of the law. They don't represent us. They don't represent wherever they belong to or wherever they are coming from. The society is made up of multiplicity of persons with different interests. So these agitators should keep within the law. And the law is very clear. If they go the route that undermines national security, like I said earlier, don't let them in. As a citizen of that you have a right to live or to do my business anywhere once and long as I've not violated the law. So these persons in agitating within their rights must also be reminded that this is a country that is governed by laws. You can't say because you're aggrieved. I heard my colleague there saying that it's supporters for the information. Supporters of the government don't have any mandate in governance. Okay. And finally. It's one by law. Okay. Finally, Mr. Lawson, what's your take before we wrap up? I mean because your colleague here is saying if you must do what you must do, you must consult with the people. And he's saying the people are not on your side. And even if you have a case here, he thinks that it is purely political. What's the way forward? Have you engaged the government? Have you gone to the National Assembly? Have you spoken to your representatives? Have you gotten feedback? Because I'm still trying to understand how this will help the leaders to listen to you as opposed to sending soldiers or the policemen after you. The Nigerian government know the right thing. And for those who are embodying the Nigerian government to continually do the wrong thing, we do only hope that they will be bold enough to advise this government to call for a referendum if it can to actually determine which position is popular. Let us ask this government and its supporters to conduct a referendum in the Southeast today or the Southwest and see if the people would actually say no to cessation. And that is why some of us have continued to advise that the government, you know, engage with the people. You cannot, you know, continually assume that people have to be silent or they don't have right to say whatever they so wish. If the government here is, or its supporters, organize a referendum to test its popularity, I can tell you that the government will fail both in the Southeast and the Southwest. As far as this conversation is concerned, I'm not an advocate of this conversation, but we must restructure this country. But you sound very optimistic that, but then as much as you're saying in one breath that you are not advocating for it, you also really sound very optimistic that that is what you want for your people. But anyway, we're out of time, unfortunately, Mr. Lawson. So we have to go, Fermi Lawson, Nelson Ekujuni, our both political analysts from the Yoruba Extraction in Nigeria. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for speaking with us. All right, well, we'll take a short break now and when we return we speak about the National Assembly and what they are saying about Nigeria's national unity. We'll be right back.