 To start, I'll just say that I'm Smitha Doss. I'm the principal of Impact Investing at World Education Services, where a social enterprise that spun off a philanthropic arm called the Mario Macefa Fund in 2019 to deploy catalytic capital towards advancing economic mobility for immigrants and for refugees. And very excited to be joined today by a few co-conspirators and co-agitators, Lauren Gratton, who's co-founder, chief community officer at Mission Driven Finance, and Stephanie Thomas, who's a founding member and investor at Impact America Fund. Welcome to you both and looking forward to our conversation today. I'll start by just sharing a little bit about what we're hoping to tee up in the conversation today, and then we'll let Lauren, Stephanie and I kind of introduce ourselves and also our firms to come. So for the next 45 minutes, we're looking forward to having a conversation about what does it actually mean for us to invest in an intersectional equity through an intersectional equity lens. So we will be talking about what we invest in and then also importantly, how we invest. So to start, we will dive into some concepts around intersectionality, share how each of us centers an intersectional equity lens in our work, and then go into some details and examples around how this actually plays out in practice. We'll of course save time at the end for your questions and comments and hope that you use the chat as a forum for us to engage further along the way. We will certainly be monitoring it as much as possible and we also have some support from Alex at Zocap to bring a few of you off video and mute so it can feel like we're actually together in a room. So with that, I will maybe just start off by asking Stephanie, could you start us off by helping define intersectionality and importantly, how do you integrate this lens into your work at Impact America Fund? Yeah, sure. Thanks, Smitha for the introduction and the labeling of co-agitator. I love that. So yeah, we thought we would set the table by defining intersectionality. But before that, I wanted to give you guys just a little bit of historical context. So in 1989, a white paper came out. It was produced by a law professor out of UCLA, Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw, who is a black woman. She had been studying race and sex-based discrimination cases of the 1970s. And in particular, it honed in on a case brought by five black women against general motors. And through that analysis had concluded that the law and legal structure was just inadequate in terms of capturing these women's experience within the workplace. And so, thinking about sort of how intersectionality came about, right? Origins being an investigation of the different identities, particularly looking at black women as black and female, how the system was not adequate and rendering a verdict for their particular situation and experience and how intersectionality became a term that could really capture that. And so as we think about our own social justice work and how we're agitating systems, it's important to think about the different identities and the multitude of identities that individuals have and how that can shape how they interact and encounter systems. And so we think about the definition of this. We also think about it as a tool, as a prism, sort of speak, in which to evaluate the different isms, racism, sexism, et cetera. And to think about how those things interact and again, how they play out in large institutions and what that means for the communities that are involved. And so at Impact America Fund, we, I love this panel, I love the focus that's gonna be on immigrant communities in particular because at Impact America Fund, we actually invest through a racial equity lens and so everything we do is really questioning how is this gonna impact over the long term in an economic way, racially disadvantaged groups. But as we get involved in these startups and we work with the CEOs and the founding teams, we start to sort of capture these communities within the community, right? Understanding that they're not monolithic, that there's a lot of diversity within these groups and then within even these sort of sub-communities, oftentimes the bedrock of them are immigrant populations that we also need to understand. And so throughout the course of this discussion, I'll give examples of what that looks like within our specific portfolio. But at the end of the day, intersectionality is a critical piece in social justice work and we believe that, and I personally believe you're really intentional about it. You will at some point encounter intersectionality across the individuals and communities that you wanna, you hope to serve and hope to be impacted. So with that, I will pass the mic over to Lauren of Mission Driven Finance to talk about how she views intersectionality and her debt investments that she makes to companies. Thank you so much, Stephanie and Smitha for putting this panel together and just again being co-agitators. We have a lot of fun at Mission Driven Finance working with both West and with Impact America Fund. As Smitha said, I am Maureen Gratton. I'm co-founder and chief community officer of an intentional investment firm, Mission Driven Finance. And usually I talk about starting a finance company as a mixed race woman of color. I'm Irish, Chinese and native Hawaiian and that's a lot. But today I'm joining from one of my ancestral homelands. That's the mixed part, I've got several. But being in Hawaii here, where I can trace my lineage almost back to Western contact is really tinting my thoughts on equity and place and connection as the communities we're talking about today have been displaced and often don't have the privilege of accessing a powerful foundation built over generations. And growing up in Hawaii, I also want to recognize that this has been known as a melting pot money term, got some loaded connotations there, but a melting pot of immigrants and growing up, I saw every day the benefits of empowering newcomers. That is why Hawaii is as incredible of a place as it is. Been very strong economic development work for generations. I now live and launched Mission Driven Finance in San Diego, California on the US-Mexico border. Not everybody remembers where San Diego is in the country, but it's right there. And everything that we do at Mission Driven Finance is to advance inclusive economic opportunity. And what we do is always look for creative ways to close gaps in access to capital that will in turn close gaps in opportunity around education, health, and wealth. And again, with one in four San Diegans being born outside the US, there was no debate that supporting immigrants, refugees, and new Americans would be one of our key impact themes. So how that shows up for us at Mission Driven Finance, I think of this excellent quote from entrepreneur and water activist, Tiffany Ashley Bell, who says, simply make the hire, send the wire. And for us at Mission Driven Finance, that looks like our team is currently comprised of 45% first or second generation new Americans, which is not common. We're always looking for ways to invest that are more inclusive and accessible to a wide set. Again, where Stephanie was talking about intersectionality, how can different approaches that we take benefit multiple kinds of communities, multiple kinds of identities? So most vocally, we refuse to use personal credit scores in our underwriting, which I'll unpack later. But we also make sure that how we are building relationships and where we can look for opportunity where others see risk is the biggest part of our work. We also have launched a nationwide fund to support small businesses and nonprofits that support immigrants, refugees, and survivors of trafficking. So it's definitely a key piece of our work. So that's me, and I'm excited for this conversation because it's always fun, but I would love to pass the mic over to Smitha and have her share a little bit about herself and what Wes is up to. Thanks, Lauren and Stephanie. It's so great to have you, have you both on this session with us. So at Wes, as I mentioned briefly at the beginning, we think a lot about the intersectional identities of immigrants and refugees. Stephanie mentioned it's really not a monolithic group. And so I appreciate that on a personal note, I am a daughter of immigrants and refugees, also identify as a woman in a personal color and through my life fully appreciate how the different parts of my identity, some I mentioned in addition to others, I haven't mentioned yet interrelate and often affect the way that I'm seen by others and by society and systems that we operate in. And so at Wes, what we look to do is to bring this nuance and bring this complexity around the populations we're looking to serve into thinking about what are the structural barriers or the root causes for a lack of economic mobility for immigrants and refugees and how can we support organizations and proximate leaders who are looking to address those. Within our impact investing work that basically means that we're focused on three key market gaps, one around addressing capital access gaps. This is very similar to some of the language that Lauren just shared. How can we support proximate leaders deepening the bench of immigrant and refugee leaders? This often means supporting earlier stage entrepreneurs, disrupting family and friends rounds if you will, or even supporting first-time emerging fund managers as well. The second pillar that we're looking we're looking to solve is looking at opportunity gaps. That's where we're looking at interventions that are looking to unlock access for education, training, supportive services, equitable financing, ultimately opportunity or the building blocks of wealth. And then the last key market gap that we're looking to solve is outcomes gaps. That's where we're looking at a lot of wealth building models, things like worker ownership, other shared ownership models, revenue-based financing. How can we again, ultimately shift power and decision-making towards communities in that we're working with? So that's at least at West, how we're looking to deploy our capital. But as I mentioned at the beginning, we're gonna be talking about what we invest in, but importantly, how we invest. And at least at West, and I know actually at Mission Driven Finance and Impact America fund, we think about our impact as twofold. It's not only what we do, but how we do it. And so I think now we can probably transition to more of the more interesting part of the conversation, which is, okay, what does this mean in practice? And Lauren, I'll kick it back to you. It would be great if you could start by sharing some examples of how have you centered an intersectional equity lens in your work? How have you been able to address also the intersectional challenges that immigrants face? And so we'll pass to you. Thanks, Smitha. And I'll leave in a question from the chat. Someone ended up asking, do we only invest in immigrant communities at Mission Driven Finance? And the answer is no, we invest in many and that's that intersectional type of approach. And this Angela Glover Blackwell calls it curb cuts, where you make a sidewalk more accessible for ADA compliance and wheelchairs, but that also is beneficial to anybody with wheel devices or even just me with depth perception issues where I will fall off the curb. So being able to have this kind of curb cuts approach, where can we change how we are underwriting and looking at risk, right? That is the whole premise of underwriting is to see where is their opportunity and where are things that we are concerned about the finance, the impact or the management. I mentioned in my intro that we refuse to use personal credit scores. That was a big piece. We launched with a place-based private debt fund focused on impact in San Diego. And we said, we're not gonna use personal credit scores. That is a racist and sexist algorithm and it is shown to be challenging for newcomers to overcome because you don't have credit history, you have gaps in your history. Also, this is true for military families as well, who sometimes are just in movement, don't have that same long-term development of a credit profile. And so we said, that is not a great indicator of future performance. We are just not gonna use it. And so while we did that intentionally to take a racial equity lens, the curb cut benefit is that this is better for military families. It's better for folks that just don't have generational wealth. It's great for women. It's great for all sorts of types of communities. And that's one of the biggest things that we've done is saying, you know what, that's not a good indicator even though this is the traditional practice of lenders across the United States. The other big piece for us is, how do we build relationships? And so often what we found in this challenging access to capital gaps is that perceptions of financial institutions is funky. I obviously don't speak like most bankers or most financiers. And I think that's actually a benefit because I can build authentic relationships with our communities of color, with immigrant communities, while I'm fourth generation, Irish and Chinese, that those histories are very clear with me. And so I can build authentic relationships in those communities that are newer to the United States. And I think that's a big piece is getting outside, not having an open door policy. That's not a bad policy, but the door is only open to those that can see it. And so we bring the door to the community. Where are you already? Where are those nodes of trust? And how can we have a real conversation about what's your vision for your community? What are you trying to do? And how can we help you to do that instead of having a conversation that's based on just talking about numbers and projections? Those are definitely part of the conversation, but they're not the entire conversation. So one of the big, I'll just give one last example before sharing the mic is that we supported in our Place-Based San Diego Fund, an organization called Somali Family Service. And they are a pillar of the refugee community. We have one of the largest East African refugee communities in the country. And so Somali Family Service got this incredible contract from the city of San Diego to train and support low and moderate income refugee entrepreneurs and starting and growing their businesses. Early stage companies very beneficial for their families, but this contract from the city was about a third of their annual operating budget and paid on a reimbursement basis, a bit after hitting those outcomes and milestones. And so that was very challenging for them to be able to float the cash needed to run the program. And so we started underwriting this and I had a great relationship with Ahmed. We just knew each other from community events. And as we were in the underwriting process, he said, oh, by the way, would you consider making this investment in accordance with Islamic financing principles? And we said, not 100% sure what that is, we'll research it, but most likely, yes, we'll figure it out. We didn't know that that was one of the barriers to capital that folks were not able to get the opportunity to grow because there was constraints that were not in alignment with their faith. And so we did ultimately make this investment in accordance with Islamic financing principles. They've repaid it, it's just fantastic, but we are in the process of making a second one in our People on the Move nationwide portfolio as particularly Muslim refugees are looking for these ways to grow their capital, and grow their opportunity. Like kicking it to Stephanie. Thank you, Lauren. And as I was listening to you speak, there's so many sort of overarching themes even though we sort of from a capital stack standpoint operating in sort of different verticals. And so Impact America Fund, we do equity-based direct investments in high-growth startup companies that are leveraging technology to scale, not only a market space solution, but also to scale impact to the communities that we care about. And again, our real focus is deeply on racially disadvantaged communities. And when we look at outcomes, we think about how these solutions can address racial wealth gaps that we all are too familiar with, that are experienced by a lot of groups in this country. And so with thinking about intersectionality, I think about it as operating with nuance and really peeling back the layers on these different communities as we grow with the companies that we work with. As a sort of traditionally structured venture capital firm that has an impact lens, we often are asking the question of, where is the upside on this opportunity? But we're also thinking about it from a different point of view than most these cities. And what I mean by that is how we look at the upside is around the embedded sort of value within these communities that tend to be overlooked. And when there's infrastructure that is built to help bring about access and agency, that is where the sort of real opportunity is had and recognized and captured. And so for instance, with Care Academy, which is one of the leading sort of home care, home health related workforce training and empowerment platforms. The CEO, Helen Adiosun, who has lived experience as being a direct care worker, has experienced as coming from an immigrant family, fundamentally understood not only the sort of markets as it relates to the home care industry, but also the workforce that is the engine behind that this multi-billion dollar industry, right? And understanding the nuances and sort of how that came to be and who these workers are, understanding that, and even at Impact America realizing 60% of the workforce that she was solving this problem for are women of color who are low income. And then a large portion of that sort of sub community or sub population are immigrant women who their sort of first entry point into the American economy is often in these direct care worker positions. And so as we've been able to help Helen grow the company and really think about how to establish partnerships throughout the industry to continue to scale her business and to continue to impact these workers directly with a curriculum that can allow them to not only do their jobs well in the now, but then also be able to upscale and really create career pathways for themselves in ways that haven't happened before because no one really cared or paid attention to that or thought these workers were deserving or worthy of that acknowledgement. And so a great example of how these things have sort of become interwoven is recently this year Care Academy was able to partner up with one of the nation's largest nonprofit community based home healthcare organizations called Visiting Nurses Services of New York. They have a reach that touches 44,000 patients. They have 6,500 direct care workers. And for the first time, partnering with Care Academy has allowed them to train up their workers in a way that is pandemic friendly, that is allowed. These workers who have access to the curriculum and the content they need on mobile devices not requiring them to be in person to get this training and to still be able to do their jobs and do them well. The other interesting fact though is that across this 6,500 direct care worker base there are over 50 languages spoken, right? And so as Helen is thinking about how to build a great business partnership with an organization like the VNS and Y, sorry. She's also thinking about how do we make sure that the workers themselves can understand and can absorb this content in their own language. So again, it's this intersectionality that happens when you have nuance to how you're operating. It requires you to go really deep and really again, peel back the layers of these communities to get into these sub communities. And then it's really, from an investor standpoint working very closely in partnership with the CEO and the teams of the startups to track impact over time but to really understand again, how that impact is playing out based on your understanding of how these communities are bumping up against barriers in these institutions and systems that you wanna disrupt. So Care Academy is one great example for us. There's a few others, but I'll pass on the mic to Smitha to talk more about how these things can play out as an impact investor and with an intersectional lens. Thanks, Stephanie and thanks Lauren. It's so much of your approach resonates with how we also think about bringing this lens into our work at West. I think what we often talk about is how can we try to embed a trust-based or inclusive investing approach in the way that we work? And this is really inspired by the trust-based philanthropy movement which has been alive and strong for some time but has mostly been focused on the grant making. How can we bring some of those principles around transparency, around flexible funding, around meeting partners where they are into the way that we think about investing as well? And so what this looks like in practice, what does it mean to have a trust-based investing approach? It means that we do our homework. It means that we try to leverage diligence from peers, try to structure co-diligence opportunities when possible so that we're taking the burden away from the organizations we're looking to investing. It means that we're trying to simplify and streamline our processes which basically means that we're trying to be very clear about what we need to know to make decisions and to understand what both the financial and social impact is of our investments and then designing a diligence process and investment process to reflect that specific, those specific needs and not just ask everything to everyone. We think about also deploying flexible blended capital to meet the needs of the organizations. And so that often means that I'm not coming to an organization saying, would you like a program related investment or a mission related investment or grant or a recoverable grant? Rather the question in the dialogue is what are the needs of your organization? What is the type of capital that fits those needs? So unlike Lauren and unlike Stephanie, we almost work across both of those types of capital and are pretty agnostic to the type of capital that we use as well as the structure of investments that we use to meet the organization and the problem where it is. It also means that we're thinking about our relationship with the organizations beyond the check. Thinking about, I know Lauren talks about this a lot but just thinking about how are we putting our arms around the organizations that we're supporting, providing strategic advice, access to networks. In our case, the overall enterprise of World Education Services, how can we unlock all of that value strategically in a catalytic way? And to be honest, we're still early. We're pretty new at impact investing. So I think we're having this learning approach to the way that we work. We made two investments late into 2020 and actually just of last week have now made two more investments. One in JFS Employment Technology Fund which is an earlier stage venture capital firm and then the second is an APHIS and Heritage Capital Partners which I'll just share a little bit more about. But I think over time we will have to understand ourselves and what does it mean to act in a trust-based way in a way that embeds this lens of intersectionality so that we are ultimately shifting any power imbalances, information asymmetry, trying to be as transparent as possible and empower our partners and ultimately communities that we're looking to serve. So that is kind of how we work but I'll share an example because it's always easier to share an example and just a note to the audience that actually after I'll share this example we'll pass it to you all to share questions in the chat and then also if folks do want to come off video, off mute we would absolutely welcome that and Alex from SOCAP has kindly helped raise his hand to help facilitate that engagement. So as I mentioned, we actually just recently got approval to support APHIS and Heritage Capital Partners, ANH they have a very interesting model in which they're basically acquiring small businesses that are majority workforces of color and transition them to employee stock ownership programs or essentially 100% employee owned. We're excited because kind of thinking back to the problem that we were looking to solve at West this is addressing outcomes gaps, ultimately building generational wealth for communities of color, often immigrant communities just given where they're focusing their efforts and also thinking about supporting capital access gaps. ANH represents a first time fund manager with the leaders of the organization having meaningful lived experience. So we're excited to back them and give them the runway to demonstrate this new investment approach. I'm excited to show that Todd actually who's a co-founder of ANH will be speaking at SOCAP on Wednesday. So just a plug if you wanna learn more about their approach. But we've also been thinking that again how can we wrap our hands around an organization like an ANH and all of the organizations we like to partner with and that what we're looking to do is support the investment dollars with perhaps a grant to support a fellow and build capacity and the development of approximate leaders. We've done something similar with Mission Driven Finance which is a dear grantee partner of ours. So that is just an example of how this comes to practice. And then of course we'll now pass it to you all. If you have questions, please put them in the chat. I will now be looking at it more closely and then if folks wanna raise their hands to get off of mute, absolutely welcome that. Lauren and Stephanie I might ask you have you been looking and are there any questions we can start off with? There were some around data of where can we see these other kinds of commitments. I shared the refugee investment network, John and Tim are amazing. We all work with John and Tim, but they've put together a refugee lens investing database so you can check that out at the link that I put into the chat. If there are others, they take a specific lens on refugees so it is global in approach and it does not necessarily touch on other forms of migration and displaced populations. So immigration or broad immigrants and survivors of trafficking may not show up, but it's a very good place to start and it is global in its reach. There's a pretty, in addition to WIN, which is a wonderful resource, there's also a pretty nascent organization called Refugee Integration Insights, RII, that is looking to pilot a new database. It's been essentially a new database to track public companies that are investing in refugees and in refugee first life. So I think that's gonna be a very interesting investment. I actually opportunity in the future for folks looking at refugee lens investing, but then also an incredible tool to add transparency to what organizations are up to. So I can put that link in the chat as well. And I'll just give a quick shout out to the VC firm that I like and inspires me. That's immigrant founder focused, unshackled ventures. So if you ever come across those guys, they're wealth of knowledge around this space in this focus area. And there are definitely other funds out there that are centering immigrant communities. Other questions. Brian, on cooperative transition, who I could talk to you for a long time. And that's again, to the point of intersection, shared ownership is one of the sub themes of our focus firm-wide of supporting inclusive economic opportunity. And so we are the fund administrator for APIS and Heritage. So we're supporting them as first-time fund managers and just actually running a capital call right now, but doing capital calls and distributions, other kinds of that back office for fund managers. But we also are the co-manager of a fund with Project Equity helping to convert small businesses, typically led by retiring baby boomers in converting to employee ownership. That is a lot that overlaps with immigrant communities. There's a lot of just sharing and not the same concepts of ownership. Again, I mentioned at the top of the call that I'm here in Hawaii where I grew up, but the concept of private property did not exist prior to Western concept. So we didn't have this idea of mine versus yours. It was just ours. And so I think there's a lot of that overlap between shared ownership. And I know Smitha has seen a lot in the grantee portfolio at West of cooperatives. And that was one of their key interests from immigrants and refugees. How can we look at shared ownership? Because this model of you on this and I on this does not really serve us all that well. So really fascinating to Smitha. You probably can share some insights from what you've done in the grant side. Yeah, definitely. And I think Dave, there's resources on all the networks that we're looking to all of our investee and grantee partners on West's website, also MDF and in Back to America to share their portfolios as well. So we can put our links, our own links in the chat as well. But on the cooperative approach, yes, we have supported many worker collapse, particularly on the grantee side. I think it is inherited just our first exploration of a worker ownership model on the investment side. But I have been spending quite a bit of time landscape being shared ownership models writ large. And there's some pretty interesting resources that folks are interested in. I'm happy to send you. Send some of your way. There are some aggregators, actually, the rins of shared ownership, if you will, that are aggregating and being an intermediary to facilitate more shared ownership models. And I'm hoping to do much more investments in that space to come. Lauren, I know we also in the past had a bit of a riff on catalytic capital, which, of course, is in the title for this session. So we would be remiss if we did not really unpack how we were thinking about it when we put this together. So I mean, I think we're at least Stephanie and Lauren and I were coming from in this session is how can we redefine and broaden the definition of catalytic capital, which I think, unfortunately, is often considered or completed with concessionary capital, which I believe is one expression of catalytic capital. But I think there are a merit of other ways. I don't know if Stephanie or Lauren, if you wanted to share how do you think about that word catalytic and how we might be able to redefine the narrative there. I can talk about catalytic capital all day. And I do think it means a lot of different things. It's not what is going to accelerate it. That is what in chemistry is a catalyst, something that will accelerate a reaction. And that can mean that it is patient. It has a longer maturity. It is combined with technical assistance as our funding is, it's more accessible. So it may look similar to traditional finance pool elsewhere, but it's designed to be reached by a community that has not been reached in the past. And so that's kind of the approach that we take at Mission-Driven Finance, particularly with our discretionary debt fund advance and also in supporting those other funds that we are a fund manager, a fund administrator for is how can we help get a thesis over a hurdle and be able to tap into capital that has been locked up and then be able to get it flowing to places that it hasn't. It doesn't always look like different money. We lend and I saw a friend on here earlier, Kurt Chilcott from CDC, Small Business Finance and Capital Impact Partners. But we like to look at and we talk very regularly with our fellow impact lenders in San Diego. We try and stay around the same rate, I mean, pre-PPP market distortion, funny things, but similar rates to SBA lending, but ensuring that if you have below a 560 credit score or 640 credit score, that's not a deal breaker. So being able to target folks that are just a little bit outside of traditional credit boxes with a very similar looking credit product and being able to do an underwriting again, that's a little bit different so that it is accessible to others and ensuring that throughout the underwriting process and the life of the loan and even after the loan that we are there as a trusted partner that you turn to when you've got questions before something turns nasty, you say, this could turn into a thing. Can you help me work through this? We have made so many recommendations to wonderful workshops that as a small business owner or a nonprofit leader, you do not have time to be vetting what workshop to be going to, being able to actually make those connections to the good ones and sometimes a bookkeeper or sometimes some other kind of resource that helps to protect our investment, honestly, but also makes each business a stronger position for any future financing. Stephanie, no, you've got to, yeah, go for it. Yeah, when we think about catalytic capital, Lauren mentioned sort of jumping over hurdles, right? And for us, we talk about it in chasms. We see founders needing to cross and being impact America funding a bridge across those chasms to get companies to the next pool of financing, and which is hopefully a larger, more sophisticated pool that has even more resources that can support company growth. And so we believe that our capital bridges our founders to those next pools or next rounds of financing, which are critical to them being able to succeed over the longer term. And we look at it also as, again, not only what this financing can do, but so how can we be valued as a real partner to these companies in a way that is significant, in a way that also builds trust and lasting relationships? So that's very important in the ecosystem, as companies are thinking about how to bring their capital stacked together in a way that not only gives them more runway and more time to stay alive and figure things out, but also gives them a good sense of who is around the table that can be, again, a value add to them and a critical partner in what they're building. And then one other thing I will mention too around sort of just catalog the capital is there's different levels to it, right? So we invest in founders, but often these founders are sort of being catalytic in their own way to the communities that we really want to benefit from these business models. So Camino Financial is an online lending platform for Latinx mall businesses and solopreneurs. The way that they figured out how to underwrite for these micro businesses is incredible, leveraging their sort of skill set and knowledge coming from Wall Street, but then combining that with a lived experience of growing up with a mother who is the entrepreneur and small business owner and having to figure that out. And so the catalytic capital piece is important, but it can be looked at in different ways and different levels in terms of how it plays out. And so we've had the benefit of having a front row seat with Camino Financial and helping them aggregate and pull different types of capital beyond just our equity investment to support their portfolio of small business owners who otherwise wouldn't have access to this financing or to this funding to support their businesses. And then one interesting stat is that over 50% of their portfolio is driven by borrowers who are classified as undocumented. And so that was really compelling in terms of how embedded they become in these communities and again, these sort of sub-communities that usually don't have voice and are usually not recognized or even thought of when we're talking about capital access. Well, I'm saving up on you. Go ahead, Lauren. I was just gonna say that last example, Stephanie, reminded me of one in our portfolio, Arago Trekking, that is based in San Diego, but a bunch of their work is moving, is shipping cross-border. So a majority of their workforce is in Tijuana and they did not qualify for literally anybody else that's financing except for their loyal customers who said, every time that I ask them to do something, they do it and they figure it out even though I have no idea how. And I think it is that kind of ingenuity. I see in a lot of startup founders that say, I am not 100% sure, but I made you a promise and I'm gonna figure it out. And that is so much of what we see in immigrant businesses. It's not limited to immigrant businesses, but is this scrappiness of we're gonna figure it out. It does not look like a traditional checkboxes, but they deliver and they are committed to finding a way to make it work. And so we try and show up with that same kind of commitment. How can we structure this that in a way that doesn't cripple the business? What Arago had requested in their loan terms were like, this is not good for you. It's not good for you. So we actually tailor the terms to better meet what they've actually got on their finances. We've made a custom amortization very, very different in the ways that we set their terms up versus other folks in the same portfolio. Still meets the criteria that we've built for our investors, but it's a different type of look in being able to balance that. Because again, coming back to, we see opportunity with if they can build and they can grow, this will be really big for our binational border region. I love those examples and it was sad to say that we're already technically over time. But what a rich conversation that we were able to have in a pretty short, short amount of time. I hope that folks keep the chat going. I'll certainly go through and answer some questions after the call and welcome more conversation after the session. But I think kind of to quickly tie some of these threads together. It seems like ultimately what we're talking about is how can we adopt a narrative change when it comes to supporting immigrants, refugees and communities of color? And I believe we're gonna be talking about this idea of a narrative change later on today at the main stage with the Kellogg Foundation. But in one way, we talked about how can we embed this concept of intersectionality so that we can bring nuance and complexity to the way that we assess the structural barriers that immigrants, refugees and communities of color, the barriers that they may face. In another way, we talked about how can we start redefining the way that we think of catalytic capital? In addition to taking additional financial risks, we can think about it even broadly is how can we ultimately build markets and drive markets where there may not be existing markets? And that can also occur in different ways. Just to give a very micro example from Wes, we think a lot about this definition of what does it mean to be catalytic, providing patient capital, perhaps being one of the first institutional investors at the table, raising our hand to lead around when no one else perhaps will. We ended up doing that actually with our first direct investment into Saled, which is a really incredible micro credentialing mobile platform, which is truly trying to meet immigrants and refugees where they are. We ended up leading the verge round as our first direct equity deal and using that as a way to crowd in other capital or in other words, be catalytic. So I think there's just other ways to think about that definition. I know that that's generally a theme in SoCAP every year, this idea of catalytic capital. So I imagine we'll be revisiting this topic over time. But I'll mention kind of the third narrative shift that we're also talking about is this idea of how can we invest in a trust-based inclusive way and in a way that using kind of Stephanie's language of her last example utilizes culturally appropriate terms, ultimately shifting power to communities. So I think across all these three different dimensions, we're looking to build a movement around narrative change, but then also deeply support communities of color and immigrants and refugees. So with that, I'll share Lauren or Stephanie, if you want anything to add, final takeaways, but otherwise, thank you all so much for your time and engagements. I have totally been remiss on the chat while I was speaking, but look forward to seeing what's been going on. Thank you, Smitha, this was great. And I wanna continue the conversation offline via email, Twitter, LinkedIn, what have you. You two said it best. Thank you all so much for joining us today. And I am a very easy person to find on the internet. So I'll drop my email in the chat, just know that I am slow this week catching back up. But thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your SoCAP experience. Enjoy the rest of SoCAP, thanks everyone.