 Hello everyone. Welcome back to For The Minions, a weekly show. Oh shit, let me, because Jelly's camera isn't working. Let me pop those out, because they're incorrect. But yes, we are going to be talking about various third person mobas, including the Paragon Remakes and Ethereal. We've got some, Netmarble has been advertising for Overprime, which is cool to see, and then Overprime released their Faye gameplay video. Predecessor released the Chimera changes to Chimera's kit, as well as the numbers for that. And then Ethereal has a new skin for Lea, which I'm very excited about, because Lea is my girl. And then Fault had the new patch, and then I believe these spicy gentlemen have a few bones to pick with Strange Matter. So I'm going to say Fault for the last this time, because I think you guys are going to be digging in there. So I'm your host, the man who's joining me as always, is Jellynees, but I don't know if he's there or not. I know his camera isn't working. You there, Jelly? Fuck that guy. Moving on to the Viking Jedi. You're doing Viking. I am super good, man. I'm fired up to do this week's episode. I do have some spicy takes for Fault, I think, but hopefully coming from a good place overall. So we'll try and keep things cordial, of course, pretty usual. Keep it professional, you know what I mean? Because, but no, I'm really excited. And I had a really good week. And so yeah, what about you? How was your week? My truck broke down. So I've just been working on that. So that sucks. Yeah. I remember you telling me that. Thanks for bringing up painful memories. Oh, you know, mostly I'm just trying to kill time until Jelly could get on. But maybe we just... The show goes on. I don't care if Jelly's here or if he's just a series of spinning dots chasing each other through the void. That's fair. I mean, maybe the spinning void is better content. I don't know. So if you guys don't know, the spinning void is Jellynees, my friend and co-host that is here almost every week. Hopefully he'll get his camera worked out. But we're going to move right into your predecessor for now. So predecessor, they released their take on Chimera's Hero Kit. And this is something we've addressed quite a few times with them. Like every time they release it like a change to a Hero Kit, it looks just overpowered as hell. And it's starting to become something Jelly often quotes is, if everybody's overpowered, then nobody's overpowered. But the latest change, even without the numbers I'm a little concerned about. And this is with Chimera's kit. Now there's two changes to his kit that they made. One being his ultimate is no longer a lock one. It's now just a point of origin AoE. So he could hit multiple people with his ultimate. I'm not too concerned about that. I think that's a great idea. What does concern me, his E, which in Paragon was simply a passive that gave him his Spirit Regen stacks. Now this will heal you depending on how much Spirit Regen you currently have. Like just an instantaneous heal. But even more concerning is it's a cleanse that could be activated prior to being CC'd to not get CC'd. So it's going to work quite a bit like E blue screen. Yeah, I see that. Yeah. So it's going to look quite, it's going to work quite a bit like Hunter's Gile did. If you guys remember that card from predecessor. So Viking Jedi, what do you think about this Chimera kit from predecessor? I mean, I'm kind of torn on it. So I'm excited that they're continuing to give us more information. I think if anything, what this will do is give them, you know, valuable feedback from us, the community to be able to weigh in on in these exact issues. I do think that it seems like, again, on paper that it's a bit over tuned. It's a little Chimera has always been in my opinion, like the perfect like noob stomper. Like he's just the guy that it seems like especially in lower ELO's play or more casual play just takes over games and all aspects. And so now being able to not only have so much sustain, have a AOE stun, have a non locked on jump in now and technically a jump out. And then CC cleanse. It just seems like a lot for one of the most, you know, aggressive junglers that can just hyper carry into the late game and become an unstoppable force. I do know in like, you know, the old Paragon days, you know, he could be countered in higher ELO's, like, you know, with, you know, more, you know, concentrated gameplay. But I just worry about like, you know, again, the solo queue environment of somebody with this kind of kit that's not competitive play without without all the organizations going to take place to really be able to shut him down. So yeah, it's just having a cleanse on top of all the burst damage and the sustain and just and an AOE ult now. It's nuts. So I think if they got rid of like some of the cleanse stuff, maybe, or they reworked how that works instead of giving like the heal, but I don't know, man, it just seems like a lot. Does that answer I hope, I don't know. It doesn't look like a lot. I know we predecessor is a different game for Paragon, but we can use Paragon as an example, like a previous example, because we have all played against Chimera and I felt always felt he was very easy to counter higher level because people knew that all you have to do is stun him once and then he's going to lose his spirit regen stacks and he's going to be an easy kill. That's not going to be possible anymore. I think you're going to have to have multiple forms of CC on your team to counter a good Chimera. As a med kit said in chat, this does add a little bit to a skill expression. You are going to have to be sure player to see or kind of instinctively know that that CC is coming and activate that E at the correct moment because I'm like Hunter's Gile back. I keep referring to Hunter's Gile. You had to know when to hit that to not be CC. It didn't just click like if you are stunned, you can't just hit E and walk out. If you're slowed, you can hit E and walk out. I also wonder too, if this is going to affect any sort of health regen debuff. I'm not sure what they call it in predecessor, but usually I know fault caused a trauma. Some call it wither or something like that, but any grievous wounds is another one. Any kind of effect that nullifies a bit of his self healing. I wonder if I'll be able to cleanse that if it's something that applies on hit. That would be pretty wild I think if that's the case. Depending on how long it lasts for when he pops it, I would imagine it's going to have a shield or something around him that lets people know that he's basically got a nullifying effect on him. I would be curious if it's still in low elo. If any Kai that knows that he's going to jump in, people are going to try and CC him that he just pops it as part of his I'm going all in kit. Yeah granted again, like you mentioned in higher elo it's going to be a skill expression. I kind of think of like there's a few other champions in League of Legends that have a similar kit to it. Usually in low elo is something that teams struggle to play around having basically a get out of jail free CC card, but in higher elo is it can be punished because you can coordinate a little bit more to work around that one button press that they have and punish the over aggression basically of being the only one jumping in possibly do a whole group of people. So I still think that at the higher end it will give really good Chimera players an opportunity to showcase skill expression while also having good counter play. But again for me in the lower elos you're just giving good Chimeras who are working their way up the ranks a more opportunities to hard carry games with a little fallback or consequences. JJ dog 234 I guess JJ dog 233 was taken. He brings up a good point. He thought it consumes the stacks. I'm not sure if it consumes the stacks or not. I know jelly knees went very deep into this and I was kind of going to rely on him, which silly me for relying on jelly. And now he's right. He's right. He's like I want to come in. I want to get this so bad. I'm here. My camera's just acting up. But so yeah, there's nothing that directly states his stacks are consumed when he uses his E. And that I think is a big wording. I think across the board the wording on this document that they sent out of his stats and everything is really too general to explain what the ability does and what the effects of said ability are. For instance, the E, right? The ability that I think everyone's really talking about right now, isn't clear of whether or not he gets 1.5 times his current health regen as max health or just 1.5 times his current health regen as just a flat heal. Because so he could have 60 health regen, for instance, and that would equate to what is that, a 90 90 health heal. If it's just 1.5 times his health regen, right? But if it's a percent heal, if it's percent max health, like it is earlier in the ability, then it's a 90 percent max health heal, which is a very different numbers. So it's, I think it needs to be worded more clearly going forward, but it's, you guys mentioned it a little bit already. I think this ruins a lot of the counterplay of Chimera, of especially the reason he was good in low elo, but bad in higher in paragon, was in higher elos they knew, okay, just CC Chimera, he's done and move on, no big deal. So now Chimera has a way to reliably negate that, right? If he sees that you use Decker Bomb on somebody else or whatever it is, whatever the CC for your team is, the really consistent CC, he's going to be almost unstoppable at this point, because now, similar to what we've seen with Boris in Fault, you give somebody this ability to cleanse CC or become unstoppable for a period of time and they turn into a rampaging monster. Because they can go in with it, they can get out with it, and then you add a heal on top of that. And I worry Chimera and predecessor was already insane in the past tests. Chimera was already dominating. I don't think this needed to be added, other than maybe as a like, okay, you guys complained about how much CC Decker has. So now we're going to give Chimera an anti-CC. Yay! Right? Like it's, I'm not saying that's the actual reasoning, but it does feel like that a little bit of like, it's okay that Decker has so much CC because we're giving potentially more people anti-CC or just making them unstoppable in general. That makes me a little nervous going into like another test or their early access. Another thing this sort of concerns me is in Paragon. Again, they're two different games. I realize that. Sure. It's a direct analog. In Paragon, Kai dominated Bronze Silver. In Gold Platinum, he was barely touched because he just, everybody had learned how to play against him. However, Diamond Master, Kai kind of came back and made a pretty big comeback. Like Kai was a pretty, was a top hero in master level play, because people had not only figured out how to play against them, but people had figured out how to defend their own Kai whenever he got in trouble and that sort of thing. So and health regen, the health regen he gets from his passive is actually, is really the big problem. Right? Give him, give him a way to escape. Fine. Right? Give him a way to escape where he's earning 50 health back per second. That's a different issue, because all he needs is a couple seconds to then re-engage on this fight without items, without anything, just purely because he was engaged originally and got to disengage for a few seconds. Like that's all Chimera needs in order to turn back into a fight. Is that couple second window to heal up a little bit? I don't know. I mean, again, we'll have to see. We'll have to actually see it in the gameplay, how it, how it works out. But like, like you said, Jelly, we, he was strong already. This is going to make him even stronger and in the hands of a really good player, nigh impossible to kill. Another question I would have, well, another concern I had too, I didn't like the way that, like they did their video, like the way it was worded, because the way it was worded made it seem like you only got health regen from hitting abilities. Cause they said it several times, hitting an ability will give you health regen. And then they would be like, ambush will give you health regen. This will give you health, you know, regen stacks, but they never mentioned basic attacks at all. And the assumption is there from Paragon players that you get the regen stacks from hitting, and that was confirmed with the document they sent out. But if you watch that video, the way they word everything, it made it seem like he only got spirit regen stacks from, from hitting abilities, which would be another, another, a completely different story that would not think I'll be depending on what the spirit regen stacks he got were that would be, that would suck for Kyberra if you couldn't stack your regen, but with basic attacks. I mean, I think that also just, it just comes back to wording. A lot of this is, is very nuanced in a very complex kit. And they're not really giving us a lot of details exactly on how it's going to be working. And so, and two jellies point, I want to say it's like, you know, they are, they're doing a lot of interesting things with the most recent updates to champions that we've seen. And I'm wondering if that's just their, their divergence and take on how they want the game to be played. Because there is a lot more CC in the few kits that we've seen. And there's a lot more, you know, outplay potential in some of the kits that we've seen. And I think there's, there's an opportunity here that even with it sounding on paper, because a lot of this is our, our previous, you know, experience in either Paragon or using fault as a reference of what this kit can look like in those games. But with predecessor, we don't really know with all the stuff that they've updated in, you know, in the scaling and the items and all that stuff of why maybe they feel like Chimera needs this as part of his kit to be effective and efficient in his role. So I'm excited still that they're making changes and trying to, you know, make a more aggressive, you know, take on, on these, these kits. But obviously we'll have to see what it looks like once, once people are able to play it and abuse it. Because I mean, when you start thinking about like a tank Chimera, who not only is just basically health-regening through everything can, you know, not be CC'd. And then you throw in other items and especially activatable items that he could be unkillable in some aspects. I mean, depending on how they, how they figure it all out. And so that's kind of scary. If you're a mid laner or off laner like me. Another thing I want to know is if it acts, I'm going to again go back to Hunter's Gile back in the days. I use that on a lot on Shinbi. And one thing I had discovered was if Decker puts a wall down and walls you in, if you hit it, the second you were about to touch the wall, you would just walk straight through a wall. Like the Hunter's Gile wouldn't negate that. I wonder if that's gonna, if it's gonna work that way with Decker's basic ability cage and predecessor. Because that would be a real poopy pants moment when you think you have a lock down in your cage and he just walks right through it like a fucking ghost. So it's weird because I'm looking at the thing that's on live for them is the Invigory, it's just Chimera instantly cleanses. So it's not something he has to press ahead of time. He could press that while being CC'd if I'm reading it correctly. It says immediately cleanses. Yeah, it's pretty heavily implied though that you need to pre use it if you want to stop yourself from being stunned. Well, so in like League of Legends, you can get CC'd and then cleanse yourself out of a CC. And if in really high elo pro play and stuff like that, it's almost instantaneous where you don't even actually end up getting CC'd for much. It's more of like a little hiccup. But that's because when I see the word cleanse and immediately, that's what I think of is being able to just once you feel yourself being CC'd or you know, you just got CC'd, press that button and you're out of it. I don't know. Jaleigh Laniel comes up. He says, what do you think Kai needed to make him interesting, balanced, unique? I think the change to his ultimate is a great change that will add a lot to skill expression. Being able to jump in and stun several people would be pretty damn cool. And then you get a fuckload of spirit stacks. It not being a lock on means that you can actually miss it. So again, more skill expression with that. We're going to have to really see how it works out. I highly doubt you're going to have too many opportunities to get multiple people with it the way because people are just going to be spread out. But it's like the phase ultimate. You think that you're always going to get all five members of the team can rarely get two. Writing it down and thinking about it on paper and actual in the game are two very different things. So it's going to be pretty hard to get multiple people with this ultimate, I think. But again, the skill expression will be there. Catching people wrapping a corner together or something like that. He's going to fuck them up. I think just having a little bit of an opportunity to be a bit more efficient in a 5v5 teamfight because it kind of matters always like excel at ganking and picking people off and stuff like that. But I would have assumed that when it came to 5v5s, he became like a hyper aggressive melee minion where you just CC him, kill him, and then you don't have to worry about him anymore. With this, with having the opportunity to jump on to one guy and possibly stun multiple people that gives him a little bit more and then be able to jump back out. And I feel like it does give a lot more skill expression, which is I'm excited about that. I think anytime you give players an opportunity to really showcase the strength of a champion's kit, it's always fun. So I at least look forward to some highlight reels of people just doing some crazy shit and I'm sure that we'll have plenty to pick from at some point. It won't be me doing them. I completely agree with you guys. I think it adds skill expression to him in a lot of ways. Like I said before, my biggest concern is just adding skill expression via certain ways does not always add fun to the game. And his passive giving someone in chat reminded me that his passive also gives him movement speed now when he gets to half stacks. So now he has movement speed, a CC cleanse, an AOE ult, and all of the things he already had before, like his health regen and his jump and all of these things. Like this is, we said the same thing with Decker, this kit's looking really stacked. Like at what point do you look at this and think like, well, where are the downsides? CC uptime for Decker and the ability to stick to targets with Chimera now, being so extreme, it'll be interesting to see when the test comes out or when they release an early access, how Chimera fares comparatively to the other junglers or just to other heroes in general. Well, sure. And that's another thing too. We know that they can adjust numbers and play around with the stuff. So it's really more just a concern of the kit as it is as a whole. It just seems like a lot of tools, right? But I mean, if the other junglers, because if they keep releasing stuff like this, the other junglers come out and they also have their own now unique way to have extreme skill expression, it does start to become wondering if everybody, like you mentioned this at the beginning, if everybody's OP, who's really OP? And what does that look like as far as the game? Is it just like a chaotic mess where everybody's jumping around and everybody's like doing all the things all the time? Or is it like really cool, organized, beautiful skill expression? And where the people who are really good at the game are really going to be able to show off how good they are at the game. And you're going to have lots more chess matches versus checkers matches, which I think could be fun. It could be really good for esports too, which is something else to consider. But it's like the old Incredibles quote, right? When everybody's super, no one is. Yeah. At what point? I already threw that quote out for you, Jelly. Thank you. Appreciate it. You were in limbo at the time. Also, Paragon Tender is a great idea. I'm going to do it. That's going to be a video coming soon. Well, you have to make FaZe and Chimera match because we got to respect that one guy on Reddit that wants them to be a couple. He'll watch your video and he'll like it a thousand times by himself. I'm curious to see the next couple of kids that come out of predecessor. Yeah, me too. Right? Are Decker and Chimera outside of the box kind of off the normal scale of things that they're doing for champion or hero balance? Or is this the new normal that they're going to go through and everybody has something that's insane? And it'll give a baseline of what they're potentially shooting for in that character balance as well. I know there was something in Paragon Days, Steve Superville wanted, was that he wanted everyone to be broken in their own right. And then they usually were, and then immediately got nerfed in the ground because of it. So it's a cool idea, but in practice, it's very different. I think I just happen to see them willing to make changes to the Paragon kids. I really like to see that. I think to that point, though, too, is what is the sustainability of it, right? Because right now, I think it works when you only have 25 champions to work with. You can make each one kind of its own OP version of itself. But as you start adding in more, this was something I think League of Legends struggled with is it's like as you have now they're up to like 160 champions at this point, but you can't have everybody being OP. It just doesn't work. The game won't be able to support it. So I do agree that I think like in the short term, it can be maybe beneficial for the initial launch of the game and having everybody who is your favorite character is just as good as anything else. Because if you're a Severog mean right now, and you play fault, you're probably bored out of your mind because Severog sucks. He doesn't fit in any, but if you were looking at him from overprime, Severog was a lot of fun and overprime. He still wasn't as good as a lot of the other ones, but he was fun to play and you could lane well with him. So if if Pred is taking that same kind of concept of like, hey, we want every champion to feel viable. We want every champion to be fun to play. I mean, that's something we talk about on this show all the time is like, how fun is it to press the buttons? How much am I immersed in this world and with this character? And if I'm a chimera mean, and like, I don't give a shit about anybody else's gameplay, I'm stoked on this version of chimera. He looks fun. He looks like I'm going to just go off and I'm going to do some crazy cool things. Hey, Jellies here. And also to this is another thing. It might make other people excited to play a role that they typically wouldn't play. If they see a chimera doing super cool stuff on a YouTube highlight reel and they're like, Oh, I want to be that guy. Like it can't be anything but a good thing for you if you're the chimera versus the enemy team. Yeah. Oh, now you're muted. Oh, now we can't hear you. One or the other? Get your shit out of there, Jellie. It's been a minute apparently. But that's the other thing with chimera that I did enjoy about Pred's previous test. Yeah. But to an extent, it was only because he was strong at the same time is I've never been a chimera player. Despite being a jungler, chimera has never been the one that I'm like, yeah, that's the jungler I want to play. And that's, I've played him a lot more in predecessor and fault than I ever did in Paragon. But that's also because he's the best jungler in a lot of cases rather than he's the one I want to play. Right. When fault came out, it was between him and Boris. And if you're playing anybody else in the jungle, you're joking because they were insane. When predecessor's last test was happening. If you weren't playing chimera, you were definitely putting your team behind because he was absolutely nuts in the last predecessor test. So I'm excited to play him. But hopefully it's not just out of a I just want to win feeling more that it's actually because the character is fun. Right. You did bring up several of my congenital. I will say from experience, I absolutely fucking loved playing several and predecessor. Did you loved it? So good. So much. I mean, to me, that's like a key to all these games is is I mean, I know we're talking about predecessor right now, but I feel like the success measure. I mean, when we were talking about with fault and Iggy coming out, Iggy's so much fun to play, like we it's it's I just I want to play a game where the characters are fun to play. And one of the things that me and Jelly were talking about and we're not going to go too much into fault, but like, if you end up getting stuck on a champion that you don't want to play, or you end up being in a role you don't want to play, because that's just how things ended up. You ended up either as carry or you ended up as support, but none of them are really all that fun to play. You're going to be bummed. You're going to want to afk. You're not going to be giving your all. So if if predecessor is understanding that that's a real issue. And I think that's an issue for all of these games, because any new player that's coming into this is going to be on the I don't know what to play. I'm just going to pick what looks cool or sounds good or is in a somewhat reference to a game that I've played before. If those aren't kids aren't engaging and fun and relatively easy for people to pick up, they're going to leave. And so I think if predecessors approaching again, the idea that we want to make every champion viable, we want to make every champion fun, maybe OP in the really good hands, but for the vast majority of quote unquote, you know, casual players or new players, it'll probably even out across the board. I'm okay with that short term. I don't know how it's going to do for the long term of the game, but at least short term to get people playing and in your lobbies. I think I'm okay with it personally. What do you guys think? I'm cool with it. Like I said, the game isn't even out yet. They could put this out. If it's way too overpowered, they can reel it back in. They have plenty of time. And theoretically, they're still doing internal testing, right? So it's hopefully they've seen what the potential is of this character and that that's been shown in the internal testing to be okay with what the other things they're doing, whether it be new characters or balance or items or any of that. That hopefully this is shown that it's already at a state that it is good and the numbers just look insane. And actually it is fairly balanced. Right. All right. You guys ready to head into overprime? Yeah. All right. Let's swap on over to overprime. Overprime, big news coming out of overprime this week is probably that fave video, but I want to start off with, we saw some, I didn't record it and put it up into the segments like I normally do because they were all in shorts format. But it was, Netbarble themselves have been advertising for overprime either directly or indirectly. A lot of Netbarble marketing stuff currently, if there is a computer screen in the background, it has overprime on it. Like it doesn't matter what it's for, it could be for a completely different game. If there is a computer screen in the background, the overprime logo was on that fucking computer screen. And then the shorts, like I showed you guys, were actually kind of fucking funny. Like it surprised me, but was mainly, because we all know that Netmarble is a huge mobile gaming company. Overprime is the first actual computer based game, PC based game that they've taken on. And that's kind of their push with overprime. They are marketing heavily to let people know that this is a game that's on PC and you play on a mouse and keyboard, which ties in with one of the advertisements, which was the Q button getting constant. It was an actual person getting hammered on the head while the R buttons just sitting there. For some reason, drinking a can of Pringles with an umbrella. Hey, just chilling out and then finally just gets crushed. Liquid Pringles. I mean, I think it's great to see this, right? One, it probably indicates that overprime is sooner than later, that if Netmarble, as the bigger owning company, is starting to push out advertisements for them, that means they're trying to get it in people's minds so that a release, the when a release happens, people are ready to play it, want to play it, all those good things. So super cool idea to have it be on for super cool for Netmarble to have it on their TikTok and be pushing it themselves in addition to what overprime is already doing. Any thoughts, Jada? I mean, not really. Advertising was funny. If you guys haven't seen them yet, you should go and look them up. Maybe Mingus will have them linked or something. But there's one, the sounds are a little sus. I think it's the keyboard smashing one. It's a little provocative, but I'm bought in. I like it. But I also, I think this just seems to kind of go along with also the way that overprime is approached there. I mean, with the web tunes and the way that they put out content, it just seems like they're way more light-hearted, maybe even appealing a lot more to the Zoomer, younger millennial culture, what I mean? They're not looking to necessarily appeal or appease with their advertising, at least, to the old crowd, the old Paragon heads. You know what I mean? The guys who are our ageing. And I think that's smart, because if they want their game to be successful, they're going to need to get it in the hands of every teenager in South Korea, especially, but even across the world. And I liked it also that they were putting in attention to make sure that it was Western audience ready, not just made for the Eastern audience, which I thought was smart, because it didn't immediately force us who actually pay attention to this stuff to have to go and translate and do all that other stuff that we've had to in the past. So it's cool that they're actually putting in an effort to still keep in mind that yes, maybe the majority of their focus is on obtaining as much of their audience in their region. They are still aware that there is a demand for their game in other regions. And they're still, you know, putting in the effort to make sure that we're able to consume the content well. So I'm a fan of that. Sean Connelly says, fate could be whatever role she wants. That's right. She's a strong independent fairy. She can do what she wants. I think the other thing of Netmarble pushing it on their TikTok implies that we're probably going to see a free to play release for early access. Fairly soon, yeah. And oh, yeah. It's not going to be some kind of buy-in. I know people have been kind of skeptical or the other, right? And that it's going to be a free to play release because if they're pushing it to their mobile community, which are free to play games, but they have the microtransactions, the likelihood it's a free to play game is very high off the bat. Yeah. Well, let's get in now to the Faye gameplay video that we saw. So some of the changes untamed growth, her right click, that's the flower that spins up and explodes. That applies a slow on hit now, it seems. The interesting thing that Frieza 201 that's in chat right now brought this out to me. So brambles in the video applied a slow and it did persistent damage. The longer you stayed in the brambles, the more damage you would take, which was not the case in Paragon. It was just one instance of damage in Paragon. But Frieza noticed by pausing the video though, is that it says that it gives allies movement speed, but it doesn't mention the slow. So I don't know if this was an older version, if they plan on changing that for her. That makes zero fucking sense to me why brambles on the ground would make anybody move faster. But I don't I'm not going to question it. I've been training and sprinting on brambles my entire life. Oh, have you? Are you Briar Rabbit? Is that what you are? No, what with the Faye? Like I put a video out about it. The Faye was, I don't know which one I had played more, either the Faye or Richter. The Faye was always my ace in the hole. I played this dog shit out of Richter. But if I was getting, if it was a day where I was getting my shit kicked in by everybody, I'd be like, all right, motherfuckers, I'm getting on the Faye and I'm going to destroy everyone. And I would, because I fucking love the Faye. But these changes that we see to her, she was, I always played her mid lane. You could play her off lane. Some people like to support with her. I think Faye's support only really came online about the time that I quit playing Paragon, which is towards the very end. But I think with the kit that they've given her now, especially if they give those, the bramble patch, a speed up to allies, I think she'll make one hell of a great support. She's going to be an aggressive support that mainly just pokes the ADC out of lane with, with harvest nettles, like, because that's kind of the way she worked with Paragon, but she will also now have a bit of opportunity to help out her allies a little more. You know, they're pretty cool. Having a ranged slow like that is going to make jungle ganks really nice too, as a support, right? That you get a good carry in there. She slows them down and then the jungler comes in as well. It's, you're definitely going to see some people using that starting item flash to get out of there very, very soon. Yeah. I love the video personally. I am also a fan of the Fae. I was not as much of a diehard Fae player as it sounds like Mingus was. And guys, if you haven't watched his video, he did put out a video going over all of the kit and everything like that that we could see. Really, really good video in my opinion, not just a, you know, jerk you off or anything like that. You're welcome. It actually, I thought it was a really good video. My favorite thing, and this is just kind of going because you guys brought up really good points, but I just love the animation that she has. Like all of her animations look really fun. Her swing when she's throwing her autos, so cool. It just looks like she's really like getting into it. And I don't know. The wings in the brush though drove me nuts. I couldn't, it was hard to look at. But outside of that, like, I just, I don't know, man, it just looks fun. She looks like she's gonna have fun and team fights. She looks like she's gonna be a beast. I mean, like just so much AOE damage and consistent. Like, I don't know. She looks like she'll be fun though to play and annoying to play against probably. Like Fae usually is. Yeah, 100%. Did you guys notice anything else from the video? Interesting. I didn't really notice that much other than I'm now going to call their core the anus of annihilation because it. I don't see it, but I don't actually. Okay, I know, but I will say the, and I'm glad you kept it in your video. So it's at the very end. There is a really cool shot where we get to see how it's doing his ultimate. And it was like, yeah, in a, like, I don't know. It looked like almost cinematically put there. Like, it was so cool the way that it all kind of came together because you got the Decker cage where everybody kind of got bottled up. And then you see how it's, there's missiles just come flying. Oh, it was so fucking cool. So I reminded me. It reminded me of flares off of a fighter jet. That's a very good description. Yeah, but it looked, it looked really, really, really cool. And I don't think it was intentional, but just the way that they're where they were and how they were fighting, like her camera kind of caught all of it. Like, wasn't like she was. You see them go up and then it just rains down. Yeah, it just looked really neat. And it got me excited because I was like, dude, that again, same thing. I'm a fan of team fights. I love when, when you have the 5v5 coming together and it's just, you know, which team comes out on top with, you know, and seeing that kind of like play happen made me think like, dude, if this was like a mid game fight for, you know, now we're going to go to, you know, the end gaming buff or whatever after this fight. So whoever wins this is probably going to win the game. And then you see how it's, you're coming through and I don't know. It just looked fucking cool. I got really excited about that. So I can't wait for them to show off how it's just kit at some point because that looked sorry. It just looked really cool. One thing, watch the video. Like, I never want to like, like we've gotten like John snow just fucking crushing it like in a lot of these videos. And I never wanted to harp on like somebody's gameplay abilities, but as like a former Faye main, it was killing me. I'm like, why are you, why are you not hitting with heart harvest nettles? Just do it. Like, why did you throw that there? Why did you put that whole time? So I can't wait to get my hands on her in over prime. I've already gotten to the experiencer and predecessor and fucking dominated people with her predecessor. I usually don't do my own horn, but God damn it. If I didn't just crush people with the Faye and predecessor. Oh, no, you guys ready to move on to ethereal? Let's do they're all thorough. I feel like we do this every week. Where we, you say ethereal and then there's always somebody chimes in with a different pronunciation. All right. We got to make sure everybody knows what game we're talking about. It's our fucking thing, man. It's our thing. After all, ethereal, ethanol. So with the ethereal, they released a concept art skin for another one of my favorite well myths this time, Leah. I guess I just got a thing for winged to females. I love me the Faye. I love me some Leah. Good to know a man goose winged females. Got it. But this Praetorian Leah skin looks amazing. We've seen the like the Egyptian skin for her before, which also looked great. I think this skin looks even better. I cannot wait to see it in the game. Jelly, what do you got to tell us about this skin? I mean, so something you and I talked about many, many moons ago, man goose before I long before I was even on the team was with Leah, right? Her base skin kind of fits a place in the world, right? Like you've kind of got this like Mayan Aztec feel to her base skin. Then you've got Egyptian Leah, which is just another culture from from around the world, right? And now you've kind of got this like Roman Greek skin, right? That again, another culture like it doesn't get like less satisfying to see, right? Like even though it's yeah, it's kind of based on another culture that we see in the real world from history. It's still badass. Like it's just the way the armor falls. I love the little armor on her wings as well. Oh, yeah. Super cool. I just I'm excited for it. And it's it's a cool it's a cool skin for sure. If we don't get like a Norse Valkyrie version of Leah, we take notes real quick mangers. We're gonna fucking riot. I agree, though. Like I mean, as the Viking Jedi, yeah, I feel like that that's like a missed opportunity if you don't take advantage of it. But no, this this Praetorian is it's so sick. The color combination I think is my favorite. For me, it feels like a relatively underutilized color combo. So the palette is really neat. I think that the red with that like silverish gray is just so cool. And it's like that deep blood red, which is really, really, really neat. Because it just really like plays on the contrasts really well. And I'm definitely no like designer. But this makes my eyeballs happy. So that's a simple enough for me. It looks cool. I can't wait to see what her animations look like and all that stuff. I don't know that's probably coming at some point, but like she looks fun. She should be rolling around here on the screen again. And then there's another skin if you guys are on the Patreon for a theory was released this week. I can't talk too much about that. But that's another one that I I specifically requested a long time ago. A long time ago. That's why I even send it to you, man. Goose. It was like, Hey, make sure you see this thing because I know you'll be happy about it. Like, yeah, there he goes. I finally rolled around. I didn't leave it up long enough. I need to I'll take note of that next time I do the overlays. So we got anything else for for a thorough Oh, nothing directly. I mean, I thought now every time I look at your footage every week for ethereal is that I need to get you new gameplay footage. I was thinking that too, but I don't want to map just drives me nuts. When I see the old map, I'm like, Oh man, it's so it's so bad. If you want to let me in and just run around by myself and just get some footage, I would not be mad at that whatsoever. It's okay. Stuff's coming. Stuff's coming, man. Goose. I promise. Right on. Right on. Moving on from a thorough, we'll get into fault for this week. And fault this week we released was a patch 18.1. A lot of different changes, a lot of buffs, a lot of whole a lot of bug fixes. And I got in a little bit and tested out because they buff the dog shit out of Velika's command drone, which if you've played fault, you know, the command drone really doesn't do much. It doesn't sap mana like it used to. All it does is it just hits people with a little shot if they use an ability while under it. Just dick it around with it. It deals a lot of damage now. Like I can see this creeping up on people, especially in a big team fight. So I think that's good to see. We've been asking for a little more functionality on our command drone for a while. Was there anything about the patch you guys in particular were happy about? Nothing directly in terms of the changes, but it reminded me to the buff to the green cleave item. Made me happy to see, right? Because it got slightly stronger. And then Viking and I have been playing probably 15 or 20 games over the course this last week of fault. And every time I ran those cleave items, I dominated. It's insane. Both the purple and green one depending, right? But they are nuts. And it's one of those like I forgot how good they were. So I stopped using them. And then that reminded me of like, oh, that's right. These are pretty good. And I started using them to dominate. Jump into a team fight, press the activatable button, win. Just sort of felt like sometimes. I think what was cool to talk about the cleave is like, because you mentioned it, like maybe just in passing and I caught it because normally I don't really care about him talking about jungle because I don't play jungle. But he was talking about too, like just the fact that it helped him get through his clears a little bit faster, which I, you know, you don't really think about it. I think sometimes, but power farming in MOBAs in general is usually something that's like super important, especially when you get into like the higher ELOs and stuff like that. So the faster that he was able to like, not only gain gold and experience, but then go out and influence lanes or counter jungle. I think was something I didn't really put together that much. But now that you're bringing up the cleave things, and I heard you say something like that, like, man, I'm getting through my camps fast or something like that. And I was like, okay, why or something? You're like, oh, because the cleave thing. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm going to go back to throwing ease on top of minions and getting free gold for it. But no, I think that's important. So like those little changes. I know that there's like some performance issues that people have had since this patch came out, but I was happy to see some of the more balanced changes. It did seem like that bomb now that she throws out does so much damage. I think she's back as far as a mid laner, in my opinion. I think she could really, really do some work. And like you mentioned in team fights, like you don't realize it because it'll get stuck on your head. You don't know, and you're walking around with all your other people. And next thing, you know, you're half healthy and you're squishy. The bomb. No, isn't that the one? Oh, well, that one was doing fucking damage. Yeah, that's gadget that my bad dude, but that bomb was doing fucking work. I don't know. I don't know what happened, but it seemed like that thing was doing a lot more damage than he used to. But maybe just people, the guys we were going up against were just better on her. Fucking massive amount of damage. Delete all previous comments before that then, but I was surprised. If I'm up against a gadget mid lane in fault, I always take the armor item first instead of the spellbook because you just regen because you're not going to be able to avoid getting mines stuck upon your head if you're going up against anybody that's even half decent. So I just take the armor and negate that shit. It seems like she has like infinite range on it too. Like it just like I would be running away and like, I'm like, okay, fine, you're back in lane. I don't want to fuck with you. We've been farming, you know, back and forth. Like, okay, I'm just going to leave now. I'm not even throwing abilities at her. You know, I'm just leaving and I just bomb, slow, bomb, slow. I'm like, what the fuck? I might as well have just fought you. At least then I still had a chance. Sheesh, there's just don't, I don't understand how far she could throw it. I don't know what the range is on that thing. It seemed like it's far. And the mana cost on it's negligible. You so lower cooldown. Yeah. Yeah. And it's lower cooldown. So, I mean, it just, you could just spam those things. I played a game of gadget this week that I was just like, oh, look, two seconds. Okay, throw another bomb in two more seconds and another bomb in two more seconds. It's like, you can't walk in your lane. I'm sorry. I'm just going to bomb you out everywhere you go. Doesn't matter. That's why you take armor first and run down or throw. That's what I do. I mean, it got to the point. I know in one of the teamfights and I'll leave it at this, but Jelly was like, you have the bomb on your head. And I was like, okay, we're having two. And that's a good thing in my opinion. I'm happy when you have to be aware of what's going on. Because again, I think that damage, like sneakily, like it'll have health some people if they're not paying attention because it's not just you you have to worry about. And so it was annoying, but I also think it's good for the game. It was a lot more fun. I was happy to see more of them in lane. But anyway, sorry. It's a sophisticated carrot. Whatever you think the range is, double it. Seriously. It's so well. Yes. Armadillon did give me the idea to rock the armor when up against the gadget. Thank you, Armadillon. All right, then. Well, that was a long time ago. Let a gamer. Oh, another big change for me for fault is the Tiog, I guess, was bugged and was using your personal CDR instead of item CDR. So items, you can call that you can decrease item cooldowns with specific either items or with the clairvoyant aspect will decrease your item cooldowns. But Tiog, for whatever reason, was using your personal cooldowns, which I was not aware of that. But I do know that I would play Decker with Tiog and it would just always be off cooldown. Like I just could constantly just book it through the jungle with everybody else around me. So I don't know. I'm pretty sad about that fix, but it definitely needed to happen. It was like every support can be Narbash pretty much and only win so much from a goose. OK, calm down. I'm still going to use them on mortgage. And all right, so they also added forums in their discord. So it's a bit more of an organized way to track what they're working on to bring up items to their attention. It's not really a like a like a Trello sort of thing, like a like a roadmap, but it does give you a little bit better of an idea of what they are working on. Like if you do bring something up to them, it will get tagged in that forum to at least let you know that they have acknowledged what your problem was and then you can move on from there and hopefully they can get it fixed. Yeah, it's not really a roadmap. It's a we recognize your bug. This is like we're working on it or it's been resolved, right? So it's but it doesn't roadmap stick typically give communities ideas of what's coming down the line. And this is a this is broken. And we're letting you know when we're working on it. That's not really the same thing. And finally, for a fault, let's get into I know you guys had had some spicy takes from the partner panel. You guys asked a few questions in the in Friday's partner panel that's on the bearded Wolverine channel and then re uploaded on when do the Mesa's YouTube channel. So what do you guys want to talk about because you guys are hyped up for it, but I don't know exactly what you guys want to talk about. Well, actually, before we jump into that, I do want to say because we had one more on here the playing games of the community for the orbs. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, I wanted to point. I thought that was a really, really cool idea. I'm not a fan of when they did it. Are my sorry, but I think during the day, randomly, like it was it was difficult. I tried and I don't I don't work. I stay at home disabled veteran. So I tried to get into the queue and I had 15 plus minute queue times trying to get into a game so I could play against these guys. And I just thought it would be fun to be able to talk shit once we got into FTM or whatever to say I beat those guys or I got my bowels stomped by those guys. Like it would have been fun, but it was like I couldn't even get into a game, let alone one with those guys. And I don't know if it's just because I wasn't five stacking or running with a group. And when I think right now, you guys can correct me if I'm wrong. If you're running as a group, like I think they were, you're more likely to be higher placed or something like that. There's only three of them. So they always had to pickups. No, no, I mean like it would like doesn't it like the MMR adjusts for when you're stacking with with friends and versus going solo queue. So I think because I'm a solo, it was like a harder chance for me to get put into their matches or something. I don't know. But that was a bit of a bummer from that. But I loved the idea. I thought it was a really, really cool idea. And I'm really excited. Hopefully this was like, like a test run or something like that, that they could feel like they can, you know, learn from this and say, okay, we're going to do something more like this because it was fun and engaging and the community seemed to like it. So I'm excited to see more of these types of events. And with the upcoming Iggy mastery thing, I'm hoping that there's something that they have in the works for that as well, which would be really, really cool. Yeah, I think something you missed on the partner panel was Armadillon did bring up that it was just a test run for that sort of thing. And then adjusting times later down the road. I know from experience working with fault that Ryan Red loves to set shit up at that specific time. I don't know what it is with him, but maybe his kids are napping or something. I don't know. I would say I would like to see something rewarded other than loot boxes. Oh, fair. I think what would you want to see? So an avatar icon, right? Something something that you've played against the devs do something that's more unique and special than just a loot box because that doesn't what is that there's nothing signifying to me that that happened, right? There's no like, oh, this guy's played against devs or he whatever, like do something that like the community can recognize afterwards that could be kind of cool to interact with that. But the loot boxes just aren't that for me. Like it's just meh. I mean, I agree, though. I do agree. I think that there is an opportunity for them to add in a little bit more flair and fun for participating in that event. And you know, hopefully that feedback is something they can actually enact upon. I mean, at least it's something, I suppose. Like for me, I think it was just the opportunity to try and play against them that was was a fun idea. The idea of getting a loot, you know, box out of it was whatever. I didn't really care that much about it. I don't think most people probably were queuing in to get the loot box, right? But it was a nice added bonus. But I do agree with you that I think it would be way cooler if you ended up like having two different ones like a Nikon for if you beat them or Nikon if you carried them. I think that would have been super neat. Or you know, I don't know, like a title. I know we don't have titles yet, but I don't know something that would feel like, yeah, like I was I was there for that. You know, so if they add something in like that, I think it would be a lot of fun. I don't know how easy it is to do something like that, but I think it would be fun. And I think so I want to address Gillet's comment about roadmaps for a second real quick. The roadmaps give the community ammo to rage when planned content isn't released. You don't have to give release dates. I'll bring up a theory. We've talked about this in the past. I'll bring up a theory as an example of this is a theory. Roadmap does not have dates of any kind, even even long term dates, right? It's not like this is for the next six months. This is whatever it is. We've got short term, midterm and long term goals. And as they get done and as they get moved around, they get moved accordingly to where they are, but it's not dates. It's not a hard thing for the community to then weaponize and they would shape or form, but it keeps them informed without holding us under the gun at the same time, right? Like it's it's for lack of a better way to put it to me. It's the best of both worlds of keeping people informed without potentially hurting yourself down the line. And let's move on now to the what was brought up during the partner panel because Viking came into the partner panel and asked some pretty hard hitting questions. One was if if strange matter feels like they're on the clock right now because they are competing somewhat against predecessor overprime, they should be releasing soon. You brought up the the cost of epic skins, the fact that they're even selling them at all, and eggy and scorch being able to just solo prime. I think we're the three questions you asked. So let's go in that order of the first one because I know you guys well, I mean, I don't know you guys have been talking about this. I haven't been really participating in the conversation. You guys take it away and I'll I'll react as necessary. I'll let you start it off Viking. So I want to I guess I want to start off with this, especially since he's in here, I really want to emphasize this is I don't want any of this to sound like an attack on armor as an individual as a person as a human being. He's a nice guy. This is not that this is talking about, you know, from a dev perspective to the community and the game that we're all playing and, you know, and in our own ways, rooting for to be successful and in the best way that it can be. So I we were playing fault when we were watching partner panel, which was so it was like, you know, we're like, you know, in the midst of playing the game while we're doing this. And, you know, so for the first question, does the team feel like they're on the clock at all? I'm going to try and paraphrase some of this. I did go back into the recording and get the full quote. He does a good job. And I think this speaks to what Jelly was talking about, like, you know, without giving time frames, you know, there's that's okay. I don't necessarily want anybody to feel like they have to give time frame. So he did tell us sometimes he can't really speak on some of it. And that's fair. I think anyone who understands gaming and game development is going to be relatively okay with it. There's just some stuff that they're not going to be able to talk about. But I found it interesting. His reply was that they feel like they've always been on the clock. Even with us as the community, they feel like we can be impatient at times. Sounds fair. Whether I would have used the word impatient or not, that's different, I guess, but that's fine. But as far as the other games, it's, they said, he said, but it's not like a clock where we feel that the game is like, that's it. A lot of people, to be frank, think Fred is going to come out and people aren't going to play fault. Whatever it happens, but also like it's a new shiny toy on the market, go play it, have your fun. We'll be here when you come back. We aren't going to sit here and shut down. We are going to keep doing our thing. And then he goes on to talk about how games come and some of the benefits and stuff like that. So I didn't hate that response. It did kind of to me skirt the question. It doesn't really give like an impression that they feel like the other games that are coming out is something they have to worry about. And I don't know if that was in his intention or not, but it just didn't feel like, because that's what I was asking. Are you guys feeling like you need to do more faster to get to where you need to be to be able to compete with the other games coming out? And I didn't really get that answered. But what was your take on it, Jilly? I think this is one of the answers that is the best that can be provided on short notice for a question like this, right? Because of course, I think anyone would be lying if they said that they didn't know they were on the clock. Right? Whether it's because of these other games or just in general, right? That it just is one of those things in the gaming market of 2022, you're always on the clock because there's something greater coming around the corner, whether you know about it or not. In their case, they get to know about the most prominent threats to their game because they're in active development with a community that actively follows them. I mean, this show, prime example of that thing is that they are much more aware of what's going on in these other companies. They're not going to get blindsided necessarily as much as you may if you were out in the greater gaming space. I worry about the statement of saying, go play with the shiny new toy. We'll be here when you're done. It's cheeky. I kind of respect it, but it's a little on the line of that kind of statement. There's a lot of confidence behind that statement, which can be really good that having confidence in your product or things that are coming down the line to say, yeah, they're going to come out. We'll be here when you're done playing with the shiny new toy. Cool. My concern lies more in the confidence we've seen in the past has not been met up with that level of confidence or with that level of execution, and that's where my concern comes from. Is there a point where we're almost overconfident about the product instead of knowing where we are at and trying to compensate accordingly? And I think that's my biggest concern with that. And there are some people that play fault now. People always say that fault is the predecessor waiting room or the overprime waiting room. There are people that prefer fault, that played predecessor and played overprime. It preferred to play fault. There is a market for the fault style Paragon remake that is a little more challenging, a little more in-depth, but I don't think that's certainly not going to be everybody. And I certainly think that they are going, like their biggest problem right now is player base, and they will almost certainly lose even more player base when predecessor overprime come out. So it's going to be, can they hang around long enough for people to come around and decide that they like fault better than predecessor or overprime? It's going to be a rough situation for them. We'll see. I mean, I think, deal with it. And I'm going to hate saying this, I really will. I think for them, knowing that overprime and predecessor are right on the horizon, right? Predecying that they're imminent within 2022. And overprime, if the net marble advertising and some of the rumors we're hearing are accurate, we're looking at probably end of this month or next month for overprime. And so these guys are right there. This is the moment for a lot of things to happen. And like I said, I hate that I'm going to say this. There's an aspect that if they held content for one of those games to release, to then use as a carrot on a stick to bring players back in afterwards, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, or rather, I would understand that idea. I wouldn't fault them for going with that plan. It's risky, but it's carrot on the stick. Yes, you're playing with your shiny new toy, but look, the one you loved before just got new upgrades, right? And so there's an aspect of pulling people back across the line after the fact that you need to have something ready for. I will hate that we're not going to get content in the meantime, if that is the case, I'm not saying it is one way or the other, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that that's the idea. I mean, I hate that you're even speaking it into a poll. I'm not saying I really don't want to say delay content, but it's good to know how devious jelly really is. I don't know if I agree or disagree with you on that take necessarily it's hard to say because I feel like for me, and this is what I've been preaching, I think, since I got on the show is that I think they need to do more sooner rather than waiting. And while I can see some merit to what you're saying that like, hey, we have this big update, but I'm like, I'm sitting here in my head as you were saying them like, what would be big enough? Like, what would be the thing that's changing enough to make people go like, oh, I'm going to leave OP or PRED, especially this is the other thing. If I'm having fun on OP or PRED, what's going to make me want to come back over to fault? Like, what would be big enough to make me do that? And, and that's a hard question to answer. I don't even know if I haven't answered for myself on that, like it would just really depend. And I think each individual will have their own response to what would be big enough to bring them back. So I'm still going to lean on if ARMA and the team are listening to my advice, it's that you do more faster, because the original intent with this question about asking them there on the clock, they felt like they were on the clock is if they felt the way that I feel that they need to be putting out updates and fixes and improvements and new content ASAP, like now today, rather than waiting for these other guys to come out and hopefully not do as well as, as people are expecting them to do. I mean, ideally, ideally, they're releasing content consistently before either of those games release, and then releasing content consistently after. Right. I'm saying that if they have to pick one, right, if they blow their content before those release and then have nothing for the six months after, that's arguably worse for them than us being slightly upset at a continued drought of content to then have a ton when these other games release. Right. Because for me, League of Legends game, I've been playing since its inception, since the, the open beta went out originally. That game can consistently bring me back with champion releases. Sure. They released a cool champion. I haven't played the game in six months and I'll be like, you know what, I'll boot up a game of League. I'm having fun with this other game, but I'll boot up a game of League. Right. It's just one game. If I'm not having fun, I go back to my other game, no big deal. And then I play League for another three weeks and then I leave it for six months. Right. If they have champion releases on the horizon and these other games come out and they're not, they're not heroes that these other games have. Right. If they drop Wukong, the second OP, OP drops, right? You know, players are going to play fault. Why are you saying that? They, this is my point. Like there, there is the potential for this to exist. Why are you trying to piss everybody off? What is your, what is your plan here, jelly? If they release Serif, I will not be playing fault ever again. If they, no, it's, but it's, they have the potential to do stuff post release to bring people back. And that's, I think almost more important than their current space right now of content release is a way to bring people back across the line, even if it's only for one game, because sometimes that's all it takes. Right. It's just, just the one game of the new character. And then I'm playing fault again. Right. And if the new characters are as fun as Iggy and Scorch, even for, even further than that. So I know we spent a lot of time on this one question, but the other ones are a little bit beefier. So I'm going to kind of quickly go through this next one. My next question to Arma was, is there a plan to reset MMR and improve matchmaking? Apparently they had already done that. I just wasn't aware of it. So I followed up with, then what are the plans to improve matchmaking? And his answer was, was interesting to me in the sense of again, kind of coming from a very like confident standpoint. And he said there's obviously plans to do advertising and whatnot. He can't go into too much depth. The big thing is obviously marketing is going to bring in new players, no matter what. And I think it's that part at the end. And I don't know if he intended to say it like that, but it just really kind of like struck me. It's like, well, it's not no matter what, it's not a guarantee that just because you advertise that people are going to show up. And it's also not a guarantee of how many people are going to just show up because you advertise like, so I kind of took a little bit of an exception to just how confident that came. And maybe Jill, you have a different perspective on it. But like, I'm just like, well, none of this is a guarantee. Like even that marble doing all their advertising and we sit here and we go like, I like it. But other people are like, I don't give a shit about whatever they're trying to sell me. And it doesn't matter that they spent the money on the advertising. It could mean nothing. So not all advertisement is immediate return on investment. And so I think with that, I like having someone who's confident. Like I don't doubt in confidence. And I know that you know, they are, this is something that's really important to them. And they don't want to see their project that they're working on fail. It just kind of struck me as almost on the borderline of arrogance of like, we're going to make it happen. And it's, it's just a foregone conclusion. And again, I don't know if that was his intention, but that's just how it what I gleamed from it. So what was your take on it? I think again, it comes down to the level of confidence comparatively to the level of execution that we've seen from them in the past. And that's super hit and miss. So it feels, it feels more like arrogance because of that right in the past, if they've been super confident and then hit the ball out of the park afterwards with the execution, right, then this feels less like arrogance, because then at that point, they've got a proven track record. Sure. Right. And so but with their track record, it feels more arrogant. And again, I agree with you, it's the no matter what part of it at the end that really takes it to that side, right, that we're going to market the game and hopefully marketing brings more players and what, how are you going to negate that, right? So I think it goes back, like I said, that that confidence to execution. And if they meet the the arrogance was warranted, if they don't, clearly wasn't. And there's, there's an aspect I work in marketing is my day job guys. So I get that it's it's not an exact science, right? It's not just put money here, people will come, right? I know it's not that easy. Because if it was, everyone would do it. Right. But there's a there's a quote that I think of all the time at work, but in general with marketing is marketing is great because everyone has advice on how to do your job better. Yep, which is the most truthful piece of information I've ever been given whenever someone talks about marketing is people that don't work in marketing know how to market people that do work in marketing know how to market people like everyone can do marketing. It's all experts. Yeah, it's so easy. Right. And so there's definitely an amount of that that it's easy to say it's easy to say things because marketing on paper sounds easy, put money on this location, make it good, people will come. Right. But it's not that direct, right? So there is more nuance to it than that. I will say to like, I brought this up in discord with you guys earlier, like our mode was asked to be at like last moment to be on the partner panel to specifically go over the patch notes. I don't think he was quite prepared to answer these types of questions. I mean, it can be said that any dev that shows up on any kind of live stream should be prepared for these sort of tough questions at any at any moment in time. But um, yeah, I will also say that that particular partner panel was probably a lot more lighthearted and fun than almost than most of the other partner panels that we've ever had. And then Jenna came in with all of his gotcha questions and sort of harshed everybody's fucking mellow. Sorry. You crafted your crappler hearts. You crafted your hearts. I didn't mean to do it like that. I mean, there's also something to be said that like, you know, I'm typing in and there's no, it's a text, right? And text is black and white. There's no emotion being able to really come through. And I was also trying to be as like, you know, straightforward and not like, you know, I wasn't going to write up a paragraph, you know, question. And I was also in a fault game while asking the question. I was also playing Iggy in the off lane and trying not to, you know, die sometimes. But anyway, so I agree though. And that's the other thing too. It's like, again, and that's why I prefaced at the beginning. I don't want this to feel like it was necessarily a tack on Armo. I think it was one, it was a great partner panel. And I think anybody who is a fan of these games or fault in general should go and watch it if they haven't already, because I think it was really informative. And I was amazing during that. Yeah, it's really cool whenever a dev gets a chance to come in and speak about their game. And Armo's funny, dude, he's he's got some really good jokes. And, and I like that he's got like a breadth of game knowledge too. Like I loved the references to League of Legends, because it's a game that I play a lot. It's a game that Jelly plays a lot. So it makes me happy to have somebody who connects on a level on that good. But again, I'm also I was literally in their game. And I'm wanting to support it. And I've been, you know, even more recently on on FTM, I feel like I've been one kind of going like, you know what, this has been better. This has been good. Because when I first got on FTM, I was shooting on fault. I was like, dude, this game is going nowhere. There's no chance for it. And I've kind of had a slight, you know, neutrality towards it now. It's like, I feel like there is an opportunity. It's it's on them to really capitalize on it. And I don't have all the answers for it. I'm just a talking head with a cool beard. But like, I am happy that Armo was there. I didn't intend my questions necessarily to come across as like, you know, trying to stick it to them. But they were questions that I feel like should be answered. And I haven't seen anyone answer them in a way that made sense to me. And so that's why I wanted to ask him. And he could have chose not to answer him. It's on him, dude. He could have been like, I'm not answering that question. Keyboard warrior. I'm not a keyboard warrior. I don't think maybe another question. Another question you asked that I think is going to play in not only with fault, but this could also apply. We don't know if it will or not. But it could also apply to predecessor and overprime is that fault is even though I mean, you can acquire them for free, but they are selling Epic asset skins for real money, which has been a debate since the beginning of all of these Paragon remakes. It has been a debate forever. And it's one where I really see both sides. A, yeah, it sucks that you have to pay for a skin that you probably already owned or maybe even paid for in Paragon. But this is a new game that they need to fund somehow. And skin sales are, of course, the way to fund it without the game being paid to win. So I can definitely see them selling skins. However, as you pointed out in your question, Jedi, they're selling for like $25, which I think is a pretty steep price. And Arma did answer the question as to why they're selling skins, which makes a lot of sense. Like the skin wouldn't exist without the game behind it. Like they had to spend, you know, they're, they had to work on creating and developing the game and making a game where those skins work and fixing the skins and making their own adjustments to the skins, stuff like that. But does that justify a $25 price tag for these skins? Again, though, I do want to point out, you can earn the skins for free if you put enough time in. You can't pay with time. You don't have to pay with money. So I, there's a couple things I want to tackle about that. All right, you can earn the skins for free, but something that has been a realization for me this week is that the prime, the base loot box that you get out of your dailies for fault, do not give skins until you have unlocked every single thing in the store otherwise. That is a very different, that's not how this was presented to the community was you can earn everything for free. And I realize it's not a lie. It's just an omission of truths is that yes, you can earn everything for free once and but mainly the thing people want is skins. Once you unlock everything else, you can then earn the skins for free. And that I feel like is a very important distinction that was not made clear to the community. So which is very different from how it was before of before the loot boxes were added of earn enough currency by the skin you want if it's an epic asset. And right because now now I don't not only don't get a choice. I also have to wait till I unlock literally everything else in the store for my daily loot boxes. The weeklies do give skins, but for the dailies, they do not until you have everything else unlocked. Well, it's still a chance at skin charts, right? It's not a guarantee skin chart. No, for the weekly. Oh, for the weekly, it's a chance. Correct. It's not so it's so it's still not even a guarantee. So I for the there's two parts to this for I think the the ability to unlock everything for free at some point is is an appealing thing to say. And I don't hate that as a concept. And I don't necessarily even mind that it's like a crazy grind, right? The problem I come to is the value that if I don't want to spend my time, then I'm going to spend my money. But then I look at spending my money and I'm like, Well, wait, am I really getting what I would consider a good value for that money? And I think that's where I kind of have take issue with why they're charging so much, especially for skins that they didn't actually have to come up with. They're not IP. They're not they're not they're not original. They're they're basically given for free assets. Now, I know and in his quote, he did say that there was a lot of issues with them. Bellica hat is obviously a really I can point to and say like what the heck how come that bellica hat is I still didn't check to see if it's fixed in game only just fixed it in the store. I haven't gone into check because I just haven't played bellica, but that would be something I want to look into. But I want to go back to his quote about what he said because this is something that I think was the one that bothered me probably the most out of all of these because this this is one where me and Julie have been playing fault like a lot like we've just been having a lot of fun. We've been bouncing back between League of Legends until we get tilted on League. Then we go to fault and fault has been a lot more chill and fun. We haven't really been getting angry or having aggressive games. We just play until we're tired of playing games and then we we get off and it's been fun. I've been having fun playing fault for the most part. And every time I log in, I'm like, I'm playing Iggy. I know I'm going to. I really wish I had an Iggy skin and I think it was yesterday or on Friday. Sorry. On Friday, I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to go in there and I went to go and I was going to buy the chicken skin so I could yell go and full chicken and all that fun stuff. And I saw that it was 25 bucks and I was like, whoa. Oh, my God. That's so. Oh, man. I'm just like I have this one. Which skin we're talking to talking about, but that skin wasn't really skinned, right? Did they ever put that one? That one was in Paragon. Okay. 100%. So when when I saw that, that's when and then so like we're playing the game. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to ask him like why is this a $25 skin? Why did they where did they feel justified in spending? And his answer to my question was those skins are worth jack shit without the game. End of story. They don't mean anything about the game behind it. Not only that, a lot of those skins are broken, which took a lot of development to fix them and blah, blah, blah. They go back on and he goes into more about like, you know, how they have to monetize. Listen, I've been talking about this since he announced going free to play that they needed to have a monetization. We've gone over a lot of times different monetization schemes that they could have done and ways to make it appeal to both sides while still trying to generate revenue. And they decided to go this loot box or route or buy the skins directly. It just really bothered me. I think that as as a consumer, as somebody who's you literally actively playing the game right now, that that was the take on it. It's like the game is worth the jack or those skins are worth jack shit to to anyone. Well, that's not the point. And Jelly did some some research and I'll let him go into it about how much those costs when they were paragon assets, not fault assets, and it's it's it feels like again, and this isn't Arma saying this, which you know, for me, it's from it's fault and SMS, it feels like a fuck you in some aspects. And I and I take exception to someone telling me to go fuck myself, you know, like I'm a consumer of your game, like you wouldn't have a game without people who bought your game when it first came out, like me, like jelly knees, like main goose, like most of the people probably in this chat. So it goes both ways. You need us just as much as we need you. But we have somebody else coming, you know, pack your shit to your left, like, you know what I mean? Beyonce hits it, like you there's another another you on its way, like, yeah. And I agree with you. This was the this was the answer that made me the most upset. Right. And this was before I even did the research. And then the research after the fact made me even more upset. Right. Is that saying that the skins are rejection without the game. Technically correct. Right. That if the game didn't exist, I wouldn't be able to use this skin that doesn't make it that that answer is okay. Right. That that's that I agree with you that it does feel like a fuck you to the players of like, well, we made the game. So give us your money. And I realized it wasn't phrased that way. But it does feel that way when it when that's being said to you. Right. Is like that seems like a lot were for a skin that you guys didn't make. Like, yeah, well, we had to fix it. So 25 bucks, please. That's that's not a good answer. And looking at the past looking at that skin in particular that Iggy skin or Paragon was 1500 coins. The coin to dollar cost was the is the same as it is in fault, which is 100 coins for a single dollar. For 1500 coins, I got that skin. So for $10 less than fault is charging me. I got the same skin that Epic put all of the work into modeling design at VFX. All of those things got were done by Epic. And they charge me $10 less. And you're saying that to to fix the skin and put it in your game is a $10 additional cost. That's done. Right. Like that's that to me, that's complete dissociation from the reality of your community. Right. Like that that was a bit much. And I want to go back to he said that Armadillon said lesser orbs giving skins would feel bad for new players. Right. That was our thought don't want new players to get a bunch of skins for a hero they don't have one limited you can't get skins for heroes you don't have. If you really are worried about that concept to you can't get skins at all. This isn't a you get skins less often than heroes. This is you don't get skins. That's a two very different things. And that's fine. Give it a small chance. Right. At least doing my dailies make me feel like I get a reward after I have all the heroes unlocked because right now I'm getting wards avatar icons and emotes. I don't really care about any of those things. And realistically most players don't. Yeah the cool emote for my favorite character. Sure. Right. But I might just buy that outright and then really want to roll for skins if I if if I'm rolling loot boxes the thing I want out of the loot boxes is skin. So after I've gotten all the heroes I'm not allowed to get skins out of those loot boxes. That feels bad. I agree people new players getting skins for heroes they don't have feels bad as well. Right. But like I said limit it and make a small chance where it least after I get all the heroes at least I'm getting something I want out of it rather than just a ward or a avatar icon or whatever it may be. Right. I'm not saying it needs to be the highest percentage of things that I can get out of that box but at least make it a chance. And that that's where the big frustration for me comes in is this was presented when loot box came out. I had the whole thing on my stream talking to some developers and talking to people in the community of you can earn everything for free just from your daily loot boxes. You can with an asterisk of you can get the skins after you've gotten everything else and that everything else unlocked. Yes. And that was not conveyed well. Right. I also want to point out too because I hope you're still here but and I thought I think I saw a message from you recently. So you also mentioned like you know League of Legends lots I know you've played League like when we compare this the value to a game like League of Legends the skins in League there are $25 skins in League of Legends. They're the legendary skins and I just don't think that a that a chicken epic skin asset is on the same level as a DJ Sona skin. It's just done anywhere close but because if or for those of you who don't know in League of Legends there's a character who's music oriented and there's a DJ one and it plays music for the whole map. Everybody can go on and listen to this and you can change the song has a whole all new back animations has visual effects for all the spells. It's everything. It's massively different and there's only a few of them in the game at all. But it's it's one of the best skins in the game. Everybody when they see that skin they know that it's a badass skin cost $25. It's just bonkers to me to say that a chicken skin without any of the rest without any of the additional bells and whistles is on the same level that and I think that's if I was going to go back to your team I would say that like if we're modeling after your other games and looking at how they're monetizing and trying to make sure that we're giving our players incentive to purchase and be part of this and make our game more successful well then you need to do a better job of of creating those because right now I was going to buy a skin and I didn't because I didn't like what you were going to charge for it and if I'm the person you're aiming for is the guy who hasn't spent any money in the game in a while but now I need I want to get them to spend money what is going to be my incentive to do so cost is one thing but the value is the other if that $25 was going to something really cool like if you took the epic asset but then you increased it and made it like a bigger deal like his his animation does like a whole I don't I don't even know I can't even give you ideas if it was like a whole thing I probably would be more into it but it doesn't so it's like what why would I I could save my $25 and go buy a leak skin. Turrets and VFX I believe but that's a play devil's advocate here though legal legends can afford to kind of reduce or charge that that amount for skins because they know they're going to sell them fault doesn't really strange matter doesn't really have that luxury like they're not going to sell a hundred thousand eggy skins you know what I mean I always say I always come back to this fault's biggest problem is its player base it's a good game it's got they got good devs but they just don't have anybody playing it and that causes just it's an endless downward spiral of other issues of the MMR issues being able to make money issues all sorts of issues so I can maybe they need maybe they've done some sort of cost benefit analysis they've realized that they need to be able to charge that much to keep the game rolling in the future I don't know as far as the skins go and the and the loot boxes first well let me right off the top I don't like loot boxes that as a monetization strategy never have never will but that is what they went for and I think if you did but so if you aren't going to go with loot boxes if that's going to be your monetization strategy you've got to make the loot boxes worth something and I think if you put skin fragments in every single loot box that you can open then you're devaluing the loot boxes and making it almost pointless to use loot boxes as a monetization tool I disagree I understand where you're coming from with that I think if you're making it that every loot box always gives a skin it devalues your loot box right if you're saying that there is a chance to get skins out of your loot box that is different because that does not that is not guarantee me the thing that I want and if there's a if there's a way that you get people to buy loot boxes it's by telling them that you might have a chance at getting something then when they don't get it they go but the next time the next time I'm going to get one and they buy it so I that to me 100% is is them not allowing for skins and they're lesser or of loot boxes is off the mark I also think they did like part of what League of Legends does for theirs and then did it like like on a on a in a poor way like we talked about this when they first announced it but like even like when we were thinking about like you know using the void system again and like rerolling to try and get opportunities at skin shards the thing that with league is that if you roll three skins you get a permanent skin no matter what if you would reroll a skin shard you get a permanent skin if three of them they should have that same thing in this like if you have unlocked three shards you reroll them and depending on the percentage or whatever of like you know like how they have it currently if you have a full bar you have a higher chance of getting maybe a tier three or tier four or maybe you don't even have the tier fours in there the tier fours are literally for purchase only that I wouldn't be that upset about it I mean I'd be bummed because I you know maybe couldn't get my the one but at least if it was you got a skin for rerolling three skin shards that you didn't want right maybe I just I just don't understand why that if you took the idea from games like League of Legends who have this same kind of system that's a big core part of how they appeal to people who are getting these loot boxes and so forth because you end up with stuff you don't want or need like I don't need a NASA skin I don't play that guy so I'm gonna reroll it and hope that I get something else ah fuck I got a NASA skin anyway oh well at least I have it like you you know like I guess that's just my final take on that I just really hated like the whole idea that these skins are worth jack shit without the game I hate that I hated that comment karma maybe you didn't intend for it to be that way and I apologize if I caught you off guard with my questions I wasn't intending it to be a gotcha moment I was just really like bummed because I was about to buy a skin in your game and saw that it was 25 bucks and I was like never mind so that that's where I'm that's my final statement on it I think something I also want to point out is it's I think the bigger factor is it's 25 dollars for a skin they didn't make yeah and and that's having to fix it aside you didn't make the skin right and that's that's where I think it really at least for me feels the worst well especially since it's a charging $10 more really grimy really grimy to do if they were charging me I'm not going to give a figure because then they're going to change it to that and I'm still going to be upset but if they if they created a custom skin fully off the ground like Astro Gideon right and then we're like this skin is $15 I'd be like you know what I'll pay $15 right but or whatever the equivalent again the confidence to execution right I think that's going to be my theme for today is this confidence versus execution right but it's it's right now the confidence of they're going to pay $25 for this epic asset skin does not meet the execution and I'm not going to pay $25 for that epic asset skin right that's what it comes down to if the confidence and execution are at $25 I'm in I'll pay $25 that the dollar amount itself is not the barrier it's what the dollar amount is getting me and that's that's I think a core difference like you said with the ultimate skins and league you're getting a ton for $25 right and it's originally made like it's their assets right like so it's it's one of those things yep well boys uh we've been talking for about an hour and a half and I would like to reserve the last half hour for community questions if you guys sure mind moving on I I just want to say one last thing real quick is uh they at the energy we talked in the past about the energy on fault community corners being not present that it was just kind of like humdrum the whole time with very very few peaks of excitement or things to get the in community engaged in that feeling the energy that arma brought to the partner panel is the type of energy I would love to see fault community corners have going forward a hundred percent I couldn't agree more arma you you were a treat more times than not to listen I didn't like the answers to your to my questions first of all I didn't like the answer but I didn't think that you were a douche bag or anything like that so I again want to I want to make that clear because I thought arma was was great he was so he was funny he was engaging he he understood why we would even be asking the questions in the first place obviously I know he's hamstrung by having to you know keep some things you know behind closed doors and I and I get that um but it's it was really refreshing to see him on partner panel I was really stoked to hear his thoughts on not just about the questions I had he some of his other things were really funny um I actually I think the funniest thing was when he was talking about IQ and and big you thought he was talking about bearded I was and that was hilarious that was so funny um but yeah no I think that was great so well let's move on to some of these community questions here um let's do it the first well the only one I've gotten written down so far but it's a pretty interesting uh July lineo what does everyone think about having the ability to purchase minion and team buffs within match gold I think king's what's that king's an approach yeah it is a king's an approach isn't it um see this is like this is applied to and applied to paragon it is applied to all the other games following on there comes a point where you're at max build and you've got like fucking three thousand four thousand gold and goddamn nothing to do with it and I think any kind of system would be better something to spend it on usually some it's usually some sort of potion that just gives you like a temporary boost to like health or attack power or something like that but I think being able to boost minions I think that would be a pretty neat idea I don't know about boosting your entire team I think that might be a little overpowered but like giving your minions extra armor or giving them extra speed or attack or something like that would be a way to end games that are going too long and I think that would just be a cool idea that we we haven't seen in any game before I think this is a really neat question yeah I completely agree I think having something to spend it on is useful um I don't I mean they're very very few times that I get the full build involved but they don't have any kind of consumables after the fact right mangus right you think like like the potions like they haven't league and stuff like that which are you're like there's nothing there's you get to full build an area is nothing for you to spend your money on right maybe it's you give yeah the minions in one lane above to push down the lane or whatever it is right is even maybe you upgrade the lane that instead of one super every three waves it's one super every other wave right something cool or whatever equivalent right because I realized that it increases throughout game time but there's definitely options there to do to create cool ideas of something to do with your gold after the fact so what if I agree with Arma though it could be a balance I mean it could be a total balance nightmare but um oh my gosh I totally just playing the shooter game that we're super excited to come back out though the one that the x yes veiled experts what if there was something similar to like the way that you use gold unveiled experts or the way you can use like yeah so where you can pool the money towards like a big purchase that does something like that like you know like you get a turret minion to spawn ran because you had enough gold to throw into it I do it maybe because of balance you could probably make it to where it doesn't come online until like I don't know 20 minutes 25 minutes or something like that but I or even if it might be fun even if it's just available like you know okay wait do I buy my item or do I get a badass you know turret minion in the lane it could be cool I don't know I think it would be if a game were to do it I think it could be like a really really fun way to to make the because it would make your whole team have to pay attention to the gold they use differently and I think that would be fun because gold is boring except for to buy items so if you could make gold feel more valuable outside of just your items then it makes everything I don't know more engaging would be fun that's a really good question I like that a lot Oda brings up that yeah in Paragon they did have cards that that affected minions but I think we're talking about something a little different than that like that was just an item on one person that provided like an AOE buff to minions around you but I think what we're talking about is more of like a general either adding minions or buffing all the minions and I I just think that there needs to be something else to do with gold I don't like the the VX idea Jedi I think that would be cool like a 10,000 gold thing that the entire team can can buy towards yeah I mean or even if it's like a pooling right like okay so how many times have you gone back right you buy your item and you end up with like I don't know like 150 gold and you're like ah fuck I don't have enough to buy anything with but if it was like I would every time I backed I would probably be like oh I'll just throw that 150 into the pool this is going to be used for said thing and I think I mean that I think it would be fun you probably have to worry about a 10,000 gold your whole team gets a 30 movement speed increase okay bam solved no big deal I do also like Hoodie kind of brought up one I think is good or a buff that allows you to share all gold and XP you earn to nearby teammates to help those behind I think that that could be cool like you could build towards like almost doing it like a valorant where you could buy like you know XP or items for like let's say your support right because supports are almost always behind on the power curve right they're always going to have behind gold and items so being able to funnel them more gold or XP could be another way and I don't think balance would be as bad on that you could probably that's a good one too another thing I guess you could do I've always hated inhibitor respawns but like paying enough gold to respawn an inhibitor to respawn an inhib would be a good comeback mechanic I think I think it would need to be on a timer still but they're definitely that could be a cool aspect of it of or pay to make your potato turn back into an in him but it would have to have a like a construction thing to it right so the enemy team can like be like oh they're constructing their you know inhibitor back or something like that and that way they could play around it and go like oh no we're going to go over there and smash that and you lose the resources that you put into that because otherwise you'd have too many games stalling out I think here's the storm does something similar some certain heroes I know I know avatar has it it's called a mule they call it I think that's a term from starcraft but it's like a repair thing that that could be set on a tower and will increase its health to a certain percentage and repair the tower but it is targetable and you can destroy it I think that would be a neat thing to be able to buy deli armor just confirmed that they're gonna put york in the game so there you go I'm in that's one of jelly's favorite but york in the game I'll be there yeah seriously I'll buy his $25 skins yep what probably if there's a malzahar like uh then I would probably be that too because the malzahar is probably my favorite or brand brand confirmed wukong earlier so he did he did confirm wukong earlier that's true thank you armor for being here and confirming all the things that we say I want to say too a few people have talked about the cool little animations I have like I've got thing now running right now and like last time I had more gash I made entire videos out of those but nobody watched them because it's it was fucking tons and tons of work for like a one minute video and then youtube's like yeah we're not showing anybody this one minute video so I figured I'd get some kind of use out of those fucking assets I made oh an orn passive to buy gold or to use your gold and lane that would be sick too dude just borrow all of the good ideas from all these other mobas and then just put the I mean that's what Iggy what feels like to me he's just a different version of hymer he's not a bad version of hymer I don't even think he's a cheap version of hymer in fact he in some ways I think he's better than hymer dinger is I I I don't know anyway sorry don't be a cool item is um for every every basic attack you pay 100 gold to make it stronger like a late game item so if you have like 4 000 gold you could just be like yeah let's have a one shot people more often than she already does thank you I think it'd be fun as fuck though so I just put another question in there from jalei as well um talk about single player co-op casual content is it necessary for a moba to be uh what single player or co-op casual content is it necessary for a moba or do it doesn't need to be sweaty pvp to survive I think for a moba you have you have to have sweaty pvp to survive I think that it's a nice option to have the casual pve stuff for a lot of people but if you're going to attract the vast majority of moba players you need the sweaty pvp I agree I think I mean when we talk about like there's it doesn't need to be a space for casual players but the appeal for a lot of people who play these types of games is to be just to climb right is to be the be better have your highlight reels you know eventually have a ranked system where you can really show off that you're best and you know and you're better than everyone else so you do need it to feel sweaty and it's a fine line and this is I think a thing that most online competitive games are going to struggle with is is how do you appeal to the guys who are casual or just starting out so they don't get goomba stomped by the sweats while also still having a place for the sweats to sweats that way they they keep your game active and appealing to be honest I think valorant showcase this the best so far in a more modern game we do talk about league of legends a lot but league has been around for a long time so there's just a lot of people who are just like invested in league at this point and they're just not gonna they're gonna play it or not play it but it they're not gonna go to any other game that's in the same sphere like I don't think most league players are gonna go to play dota for example or dota go to league um so valorant on the other hand took a concept that was pretty established and made it casual friendly while also making it very sweaty so the appeal was to I want to be you know tarik I want to be shroud I want to be 10 z how do I do that well I got to play this game and be the best and play it like they play it um overwatch actually did that for a while too overwatch actually I think that's another one they really appealed well to the casual and then made the the sweaty aspects of it engaging and fun and and I do think that there's a spot and that's why I actually thought the third person mobas had a better chance at doing that because of the way that you play the game it's way more involved your weight deeper into it and so it's like you know when you're top down you kind of feel disconnected and I think when you add in the third person shooter aspect it makes it a lot more engaging in that regard to to allow for casual and sweaty so it's just now these games have to find a way to be able to capitalize on that and we'll see how how that works I don't know but I do think you need it you have to have sweaty have to have sweaty yep 100 so anybody else have any questions in the chat let us know and we'll try and hit them up as we're starting to close this one down wasn't as spicy as I thought it was going to be I thought it was a well thought out well discussed topic I'm glad but the way it did I mean okay so I got while we're waiting for another question to come in here Iggy should not be able to solo prime with three items at 20 minutes that armor you gave the example of people soloing baron being warwick and and you gave another one and I can't remember what the champion he said a few of the melee champions but I messed up the question I should have said turret champion is that they have sustained in their kit and can sustain against the boss Iggy does not Iggy should not be able to solo the the I went into League of Legends I took Heimerdinger onto baron at 20 minutes with four items five items and six items and could only do it with a full six item build at max level on baron there is no reason Iggy should be able to 20 minutes solo prime his turrets need to take way more damage Olaf against sustain in his kit no not acceptable and he gets hyper as he gets lower in health so he gets he attacks faster they have sustained in their kit that's on me armor I messed up the question I meant to ask you if there was another turret champion or a champion in the same realm that Iggy is in to be able to do that and I just my main idea and I'm sticking to this and you guys can add in yours as we wait for more questions to come through I think that they he should be more turret focused as far as his DPS I like that he's got a little bit more mage in his kit with his E and his right click I wish his turrets did more DPS like fast like like I wanted more pupus and that they were less in health because I think there's only a few and that the now that I've played Iggy a lot there's only a few champions that can deal with his turrets and lane with how much health they have it takes a lot of auto attacks for most champions to be able to kill the turrets and the turrets are so cheap on mana they're basically I print them for free so you take one out I replace it it doesn't matter and and so I I think not having it be where it's more focused on doing DPS is the issue I take with it and yeah 100% he should not be able to solo it I'm not saying that there aren't situations where he can solo prime I'm not saying that I'm not saying they get impossible just like I said it was possible with Heimerdinger but it took full build to do so. Three item Iggy is not full build. I was supposed to care and said bro Wukong used the solo core. Wukong also multiplied and did insane amounts of damage. Yeah. Arma I'd like them to personally I would I mean not to steal too much from Heimerdinger but I would like it if they like they scaled deep like attack speed in some way so they don't start off really fast but they can get more hyper and that's where you can still maybe have the solo potential like if you really want them to be able to control neutral areas and all that stuff which is what Heimerdinger does. Heimerdinger is so good in league when he can set up right that's his benefit right and but it almost always centers around his turrets right now they're not centering around his turrets because the turrets are going to do a lot of damage the turrets are just there to be extra tanks because they have the same health as a champion especially at three items when they're scaling off of the amount of AP that you're able to earn and in a solo lane you're not getting you're not worried about energy you're gonna have plenty of energy at three items and they're gonna be you know 1500 to 2000 health turrets there's just they're gonna and you throw the ult on top of it it's just game over it doesn't even matter and the reason why I brought that question up to was me and Jelly were playing we had just won a teamfight where we killed four champions the only reason why we didn't kill five was because their Iggy was across the map solo was a soloing prime and so we get this big teamfight win and he gets it and he just sat there and buffed up all the minions and so we couldn't take turrets well eventually we did but it was like a bigger pain in the ass because he just got to go off and solo even though we won the teamfight and so that's why I brought that one up I was like fuck that that's bullshit and I was playing I'm playing Iggy and there was times in the games where I'm like should I just go solo it and he's like no no no we're gonna push this wave or whatever because I don't know just yeah they have 700 health at level 18 I'm sorry what no there's no way it's only 700 I actually think it's more because it's it's seven hundred by itself is still way too much but it's it scales off of the energy so is that just base that they have 700 or is that including the energy with if you're build building I'll wait for him to answer but yeah so I just I don't know man okay we can talk about Gillies and other question well I would I just want to say I will throw this out real quick I don't understand why Wukong was so hard to fix all she had to do was make his thousand hairs do energy damage or ability damage instead of basic attack damage and it would have completely fixed him soloing fucking like I don't understand why that was so goddamn hard to figure out I and okay go ahead jelly I'm sorry that's a whole soapbox bangers we can get into no we can we can talk about Wukong for fucking hours and hours um how should the three ish different games market their MOBA as the game to play with all of them targeting the same pool of players hmm one rough question to answer I think over prime is doing a good job of marketing theirs as being like the fast paced not as much of a MOBA as it is a hero brawler sort of game so they've got their sort of niche in the marketing space right now I think that's the thing man use is you have to push your niche you can't just say we're better than these other games because then they're gonna play your game and they're gonna play that game and say well no you're not in all of these ways right but if you say we're better than that than those games at x right if players that like x will play your game if that ends up being the case again confidence execution but um if and that's exactly what over prime is doing is they're saying we our game is this is fills this niche right and people that like that niche are into it people that don't are waiting for another game or playing fault right and I think that's an important distinction to make in your marketing efforts because you can't also be promising things that aren't true in your marketing because then you're going to get review bad reviews on steam you're going to get bad reviews online you're going to get people on reddit saying no don't play that game that game's terrible etc etc mm-hmm I I actually think it's marketing towards the same pool of players is the problem in the first place I think that if you're going to market you should be marketing to a whole new player base as a whole go after don't go after just smite and mobile players you need to be going after first person shooter players you need to be going after like you know that's where I would be going and that if I I mean as the marketing expert on this panel you know um as we all are uh that's how I would approach yeah totes me goats I would that's how I'd approach it I'd be going after you know valorant players I'd be going after um pubg players I'd be going after those guys those are the guys that like maybe don't even realize that there's a game in the market space because that was that was paul you remember jelly we told paul we're like hey dude this is like playing a shooter game but with abilities and you're controlling a map and you do and you's like oh that sounds kind of cool and the concept is there for all three of these games it's just the one who capitalizes on that on a larger spectrum and brings in those other players that are like and that's what overwatch did really well with overwatch brought in players who were playing other types of first person shooters and go hey now you have abilities we're controlling a map or pushing objectives we're doing this and it changed everything valorant now did it again with taking over the same concept of csgo I think that there's a there's absolutely a place for gamers they just don't know that it exists and I think if we get you know fortnite kids if we get pubg kids we get like any of those guys in this space they'll be stoked and bring in a whole new slew of ideas and concepts that we're probably not even you know talking about which would be super fun and invigorate this this style because I think mobas as a whole are on the downturn but this type of mobile I think can reinvigorate this the space and uh so that's my take on it that's how I'd market all right well we we're coming up on time so let's start closing things out with plugs and any final comments that you guys have starting with the viking jedi any final comments and anything you want to plug I have nothing to plug oh actually no I do uh so we're gonna be doing um uh the anime podcast again this next Thursday so please tune into that I'm also gonna plug the partner panel because I do think that it was a really really cool thing so please go either watch the vod on Beardage channel or check it out on Windu's channel when he puts it out because again I think Arma as a whole addressed a lot of really cool things and even though I asked I guess some gotcha questions the rest of the panel was was really interesting and he's a fun guy so please please go give that a watch and follow me on Twitter I would love to interact with you guys more on Twitter and we also all have discord so there you go that's my plug thank you Arma for being a good sport I appreciate your apology on not trying to come across as a dick I I figured you weren't intending to but it was there anyway so thanks for being here though brother appreciate it jelly uh so I'm gonna start talking to you guys about my marketing class marketing 102 where I tell you how to uh be anti-community and and towards all the kinds of money grabbing you can possibly do Jalei Lenio is going to be the prime sponsor behind this marketing class so I do appreciate it thank you very much I'm happy to be there and I'm happy to be teaching you guys how to be scummier going forward um no but I nothing directly to plug I think this show right partner panel is also super cool um and yeah that's that's all I got man goose I like how you went from crazy tin foil guy to the fucking evil puppet master oh no man because I've always been the evil puppet master I just made you think that I was the tin foil crazy guy oh classic misdirect the old bait switch um subverting expectations and this is the marketing term okay uh I'm going to be doing a series of videos uh it's going to be hosted by a med kit you've seen him his name probably in the chat a few times it's going to be a med kit jpi and myself and we're going to be talking about the heroes that haven't been added into predecessor in ranking them based on how we think how well they think they would fit into the current state of predecessor and I'm not sure I'm not sure when he's going to post those but uh if you see a med kits name in there and I'll post I'll post his channel in the uh in the description after this gets uploaded as a vod and you can go sub to him so you can check out those videos but uh I think that is going to be it for this week thank you to everybody who came out for the live stream we're getting a bigger bigger turnout higher and higher chat rate I'm absolutely loving it um thank you viking jet off for convincing me to do these live it's been a really good time and I've really enjoyed it so um yeah that is going to be it for this week uh you guys have a good one don't forget to like thumbs up subscribe what's the button makers I'll put my thumb hurry up