 Jocelyn is the founder and owner of Mozak Design, a WordPress design agency based in Portland, Oregon, our neighbors to the south, which just beat us in a soccer match that we were talking more about. She's also a business coach to other WordPress freelancers and agency owners, helping them to create a business that works for them versus a business that runs their lives. As a Stanford graduate and engineer-turned-entrepreneur, Jocelyn has had over a decade of experience building, running, and wrangling a six-figure WordPress agency, all while having two boys at home under the age of 13. When I'm out speaking or behind your desk playing the CSS, you can find Jocelyn enjoying an espresso or go to IPA or just to run. Please join me in welcoming Jocelyn. I'm such an Oregonian. I got running, IPA, and espresso. It's so stereotypical. All right, guys, thank you. So yeah, as you said, I'm agency owner down in Portland, Oregon, in addition to being business coach for freelancers and WordPress professionals. Today, what I want to talk to you about is cloning yourself through automation. Not a biologist. I can actually clone you, but that's probably the thing. I know having more than me running around would be good. But what I want to talk about is cloning in the sense of how you can replicate yourself so that way you can have more time in your business and some of the repetitive tasks someone or something else can do, so you can focus on the fun stuff and the stuff you love. Right, button? So what I'm going to talk about today is how I leverage automation in my own business. And what I'm going to take you through is kind of a life cycle or experience of a project from when it comes into the business and we're going to dip in and out of just touch points along the way of that relationship with the client showing how we can leverage automation to save time. So we're going to start from getting into the story. I'm going to come over here a little closer to my slides. And we're going to get the classic question and get in the email. So how much does the website cost? Well, it depends, right? And our goal is to go from that email to the sales call with minimal work. So how are we going to do that? We're going to reply to an email with an email. You're going to say something along the lines of, hey, thank you for reaching out. To provide an accurate estimate, we're going to leave a little more information. Here's a link to my project request form. So we're talking about automation. You can already start to see it in place. I'm not asking questions. I'm not putting things into this. I'm sending them to a forum that will ask the things I need to ask. When I see pictures being taken, just so you know, all of these slides, I'll provide a link who will be online. Feel free. But also they will be available if you guys download these or Google slides. So that's kind of step one. We're going to continue on. Once complete, you'll be taken to my scheduling page where you can select a time from my calendar that works with your schedule and look forward to learn more about your project. So you can already hear some more automation. We're going from a form and then we're saying after you've completed that form, you're going to be taking over to a calendar where you can pick a time that works for you that obviously will work for me. Dig a little deeper into this email because we can go a little further. So you'll notice along the way, you'll see things written in green and things written in blue. Green is where you need to take a step or you take an action. The goal is that the rest of them are in blue. Automation is making the rest just happen. So we reply to this email using a canned email. And at the end of this talk, I'm going to actually go in deeper to show the steps going through this. So right now we're trying to get it when we're setting the high level, we're setting the flow, but then I'll actually show you how you make this happen. So we've gone from simply getting an email out of reply to responses in place. Thank you, we're going to take you to your project request form. All right, form. Gravity Forms is what I happen to use. It lives on my website. I also like to integrate with an email marketing software I happen to use after campaign. And I tag the client as project request submitted. There's a reason I'm doing this. What I'm doing is along the way and you'll see this through the project, I'm kind of marking where they are in my flow because that allows me to add automation that can be conditional on how they're behaving, providing additional touch points that I don't have to remember to do. So once you submitted a form, you are taken to my scheduling page. Now there I use a software so they can schedule it. Great thing about these schedulers, they're integrated with my calendar. So it's already we know it's available for me as good time for me. They'll be integrated with their calendar, which is wonderful. It sets up to automatically give both me and them auto reminders that, hey, there's a meeting coming up. I can put details in that auto reminder like, hey, it'll be on Zoom, here's the link. And finally I tag it as sales calls scheduled. So that two tabs are useful because I can play with them. For example, they submit the form, it takes to the scheduling page, they don't do anything that you can, you know, and they go off. About three days go by. The tag of skills call scheduled hasn't happened. Well then I can automate an email saying, hey, thank you so much for submitting a request. You know, glad you're interested. Most of you haven't scheduled a call, here's my link. About three days later, nothing's happening. You know, most of you haven't scheduled a request. Is there, are you having trouble finding a slot, reach out. But anywhere along the way, if they've scheduled a call, those emails don't happen. So what we're doing is we're going from the first level of automation, which is here's a form, here's my scheduler using two pieces of software. We're certainly cutting down a lot of correspondence and back and forth. We can even make it smoother. We can even make it more elegant. Think of the almost reaction and feeling of that connection, that touch point of like, oh my gosh, you didn't schedule, here's whatever. You can even have all of those email pieces built into. You can make it more sophisticated. Have the sales call or write the proposal. Unless you have a sales team, don't know how to automate that. I'm sorry, you're gonna have to have that conversation. There are ways to help the proposal. I do like to use online tools like Proposopie or Better Proposals to leverage that. And at the end of the call, I have a list of all the tools I use. You can call presentation, all the tools I use because I often get that question. And so now that we have gone and go back, had the sales call, we're gonna write the proposal. And now our goal is to get from this call to sign with minimal effort. Because along the way, what we're trying to do is all of these pieces without remembering. And we can focus on our job. We simply know that we have written a proposal, it's going to go out and we wanna get it to signed and getting them in our system. So for proposals, this is the part you need to do. I do like to use online softwares like Proposopie, Better Proposal. Those things are great because you can, first of all, you can see what they're doing as they peruse your proposal. And you can also be reusing pieces which just streamlines your work. Again, I'm using tags. I'm using tags because I can save proposal sent. I can also save proposal signed. And so that gives me opportunities in the middle if I want to to weave in these emails. And I'm not saying you necessarily have to build this system kind of like dry. I would say the first time you catch yourself writing these emails, it's a cue to save them and use them, just for your purpose though. And so we go from this, send the proposal and potentially follow up with like hey. Now, there's different thoughts on how you do the follow up. Some people like to send useful information. Other times you might save up. My schedule's really getting booked. You wanna be on it and you might wanna sign that proposal. But again, you can automate these things and utilize the tags to send or to not send those things either way you don't have to remember to do it. And that's the best part. So you're gonna send the proposal, get it signed. We're gonna get the deposit in my case. Mine is hooked in that it collects the money. And oops, we go back here. So once they've paid, the next thing we need to do is schedule that onboarding call and schedule the kickoff. So we're gonna send them an email along the lines of once they've paid the system knows boom I got money. Next thing I don't care if it's a Saturday. Thank you for the money. Let's get this ball rolling. Dear client, first thing we need to do is to work on your website. This is scheduled a project kickoff call. Yet again, we're back to the calendar. We're back to the automation, we're back to emails, we're back to tagging. So all of these things are ways for you to go and leverage these tools to make the magic happen. You know when they signed, you wanna give the gratification. I'm so excited you decided to work with me. Automate it. That way you don't have to remember to do it and it happens and they get that and they know the next step is. Now this next slide is the whole reason for this talk. Or what got me going on this tangent is adding them to your system. And the goal of adding them to your system is if your business is raising like the line, when a client comes on, there's a lot of places I add them. I put them on these Slack channels, I'll create Dropbox folders, I'll put them on my time track, I might do lists, all of these things. And what we wanna do is I was finding myself going into this and filling it out, going into that and filling it out. That's all waste of time. Because most of these are simply looking and seeing head nods. Most all these are looking for is name, email, company name, project name, and like that's it. And so you can utilize tools like a simple gravity form, a connection app like Zapier, you ever heard of that? This is just like a for example, this is what I set up, but simply by using a single form, Zapier, I fill out one form in my business. Boom, Slack channels created, Dropbox folders created, they go into my time tracking, they go into my invoicing, they go into my to-do tracking. Done, automation, that's cloning yourself. That's doing one step and having five results. That is the sweet spot of cloning yourself. Yes, and anyone who's done it, you know you throw a happy guess. Every single time you run this flow, because it is that amazing. The other great thing is you know it's done consistently, correctly, right, every single time. So now we're gonna do the work. We're gonna wow the client and it's time to get some more business. How can we use automation for this? Well, again, back to the email sequence. Post launch, great opportunity. And this is simple, all you need to do is say project launch. You'll let the automation take over. About a month out. You know, love working with you, hope you enjoyed us. As was said, let's get that testimonial. Gotta lay straight to the glory of you. Boom, done. About a month later, you know. A reminder, this is great if you do website maintenance and hosting. You know, hope things are going well. I'm sure you've logged into WordPress and updated all 20 updates and it's since appeared, right? Ready? By the way, I can do it for you. Interested in the maintenance plan? At the same time, you can use your hooks and conditional logic to go in if they're on your maintenance plan. You've got some emails on this email, right? So that's where you want to use and have the simplification of your automation just to continue to refine and clean up and make that experience that much better. About three months out, referrals. Love working with you, got any friends? Six months out, one year out, happy birthday. Can you believe it's been six months? And you know, around nine months, that's a really useful email. But the point is, is you've been very easily set up through automation, these little droplets. You appear in their lives. For the next year, you're still top of nine, easy. So you maybe think to yourself, this is wonderful, but why the hell do I give you? You just gave me a whole bunch of ideas and I'm like, ah. That's kind of feedback. First time I've ever made this talk. And so what I want to take you through is where you can start. And this is where it's important to realize we're all in very different places in our businesses. I'm 10 years out, you know? I've been refining this. And even I have a ways to go and I am stepping through this. So I'm gonna start with kind of the low hanging through it, like if you're like, okay, this is a great idea but my head hurts and I go how are all these emails and oh my God, we're gonna go through essentially like the easiest place to start moving to the most complex. So can't emails, easy. Who here is in this Google Gmail? It's built in and there's a link for it there. Can't responses. You write an email, you save it. Next time you get these emails, tell them which is a website cost. So glad you asked. See if I can figure out which one's the lighter. Down the corner, can responses, website inquiry. Boom. When you're thinking about how do you automate, how do you start doing this, this is as simple as just installing a free add-on to your Gmail and next time you write the email, save it and you've got it. Next one I would say an order of complexity to implement email automation. I'm sure a lot of people here use MailChimp, any of those programs, right? It's as simple as dropping that the site launched and then let it run. So I went and put together roughly what it looks like in active campaign. Okay, website got launched. Great, wait about a month. Send them an email, wait about a month. Now we've got this one, we're gonna do the maintenance plan. Are they already maintenance plan client? If they are, let's just send them something useful. If they aren't, by the way, did you know what happened to offer? Then by a month later we move on to the referral. Can you believe it's been six months, three months later? Useful email three months later at the birthday. Yeah, this is one of those things where you set it up, forget, every time it runs, you can celebrate. And here it is, the automation magic. This is the super form. This one is an example of using Gravity Forms Pro. It is a paid version to be able to integrate with Zapier and Zapier. I mean, how many people here know of Zapier or a good portion of them, but not all? Okay, I'm getting a couple, I'm not sure. So basically what I use is my own form on my own website. I hook in here with my Harvest and my Dropbox and all of these things. These are all what's called ZAPs. So Zapier is something like where an action comes in and it triggers another behavior. So in my case, the action is I submit my own form. It says something happened and as a result, these things execute. Could dig a little deeper into one of them. So the way you kind of work with Zapier is you're cooking things up. So the first thing is I'm tying my form to Zapier so it's like okay, action. I have my Dropbox to Zapier. In this case is an example of whenever a new project comes in, I automatically create a Dropbox folder. So they was talking about organizing your folders, right? I have a very clear system that always executes. Active clients, client names, project name. So it'd be active client one, project one. Client one, project two. Client one, project three. Beautiful, systematic, organized. So I connect those two. And so then we finally map the fields. We say okay, there's a template. Whenever we do it, we put an active name of the client, project. And so this is the G for gravity. This is basically saying that we're gonna take the gravity form information and we're gonna put it into our new file structure for Dropbox. And I'm only gonna show this one as an example. I will be completely transparent in saying that not everything you hook up is as simple as like here to here. Some of them are fancier, but you can start with something simple like this. And even this, even the simple fact that this is forcing you into being organized, to being consistent, always doing it the same way at the time has value in its own right. Imagine the possibilities over a thousand apps. So I happen to mention the tools I use. It's, yeah, it's mind blowing. And you can have your action be as simple as setting an email Tuesday here. So Xavier has the email option. So, you know, some of the fanciness I have with the form, you could probably even be creative. Like this guy is the limit for what you can do with this thing. I want to share with the cloning and efficiency and automation, all this stuff goes together. So these are just more ways as business owners, you can be even more efficient, especially as project owners. Decluttering your inbox. Filter to your best friend, that's really easy into email, right? Just instead of always having this stuff, have it go to the different client names, you know, after clients name, name, name, name, right? And so you can quickly scan, you just get some of the junk out of there. But the best way is to get them out of your inbox. And you can use for that something like a ticketing system. The other thing I like to do is to build a layer on top of the ticketing system, because sometimes I change what ticketing system I'm using. And I like to create my own form on my own website. You know, developer, grabbing form, junkie over here, I'll really admit this. But what's nice about this is we can have these interesting fields. And I love this one, this is a ticket request form and they can go to my website, submit it to, can this normal stuff, like who are you and what's your website? But then there's this task urgency that I love. How important is this request? Is this like standard, like I'll get to it this week? Is this pressing, which may or may not have a surcharge? And is this urgent? Oh, by the way, did you do this to surcharge if it's urgent? So is the sky really falling? You'd be amazed, the sky doesn't fall when you're early as often as it used to, so it's the sky won't fall and sound good. Uh-huh, yep. I have a friend that does 1x, 1.5, 2x is pricing. Whatever works for you, the IDMP, you get it out of the emails just coming into your inbox, you get it coming into your place and your website and you can then control where the heck you're standing at. And what I kind of like about having this form, in addition to my handy-dandy little, like, is the sky really falling, is that I can also go and, as I said, if I change how I do it on the back end, I can then just slide it to wherever it's going. And that gives me flexibility as new shiny objects appear in my world. Another one that's useful, as I alluded to, is my project quest form. I get questions about that, and we have mostly the standard stuff, but there's a couple of questions I like to ask. How do you know about us? Always good to know. We get banged, how they found you. We often find out. I often forget to ask that question, and so I built it in. I mean, he's didn't make her. Usually they are, but sometimes it's somebody in the office doing research, so that's really not the person you want to have a meeting with. I have found people lay out to that truthfully and say no, which surprised me. How do you envision impacting of this? Is this kind of just getting them to think about why I'm doing this? What is the investment? And this gives me the information I need to when we are having that sales call to understand. And then this one, this one's great. I don't get any tired to create anymore. What's your budget? What's your investment? What are you thinking? And you can position with this line. You can have it so the default is basically your sweet spot, and then I like to, for smaller budgets, turn it as a mini project. I mean, no, you're not getting a website for that price, and by the way, anywhere below this, you don't fill out my form. And that's just where I am in business. You get to places in business where budgets are too low. Likewise, I actually have a crazy high, and I kind of do that on purpose too. In my case, I believe there are sites that are going to be too high. There are, like, I don't want to work on a $100,000 budget. Scares me right now. Oh, thank you. And so it kind of really also sets for them to know, am I in the right place? Like, is this person sort of positioning themselves with about what I expect? And it often does make me have about the right fit client. But no, I actually don't get tire kickers because they look at this and they're like, yeah, they're not going to ask me about a site for, you know, whatever the right number is. I'll leave it at that, because we are all at different places in our business. Some questions on this. The other great thing is it gives you the information going into that meeting. You already have gotten thinking, like, what are you willing to invest? Because you, clients, ask how much does it cost? And I said, like, I can quote you $2,000, I can quote you $20,000. Those are two very different solutions. You need to let me know what you want to invest in your business, and only then can I give you an estimate. That's going to even be aligned and not waste either of our dives as well. Because if your budget isn't close to what I can do and then instead of the conversation, because, okay, then, if that is your budget, I'm not lowering my price, I will tell you what I can deliver for that budget, and this will be phase one. So it gives you that information. Another thing that is great for, you know, saving time and being efficient is to go and do things like this. Always use the same tool suite. Running out to the enforced and learning the latest and greatest thing is a waste of your time, right? Get your tool set that you know, that you understand, know it well, use it, and just that is your go-to. Have a seed site. So I have my go-tos, I have them set up in an area that's always kept up to date, and so whenever a new project comes in, it's in my systems and processes, it's all documented, we take this, we clone it, we seed it, all the plugins are off, as we need them, we turn our favorite plugins on. At launch, anybody who's off gets deleted, done. Because I will tell you, I do remember the days where even though I knew better, I was sitting there, it's the only WordPress, and adding plugin one, and two, and three, it was stupid, but I did it, so I'm gonna assume I'm not the only one. Only use hosts you know and love. So how you didn't need guys who wasted time in a setting where you're like, where is my seed panel, what the hell is this, you know, like, oh my God, when was this built, this is not a hosting company. It wastes so much of your time, right? And so the client has some options. One, they can switch to one you like. Two, they can not work with you, or three, come up with a number that's really vague that is worth that pain and suffering. But use the hosts you know and love, and honestly, that has been something I've been loving. I've been moving all my clients over to one host. In my case right now, I'm using WP Engine for me. They're great because I love the fact that their tech support's really responsive. They've got all of the speed issues, you know, the polish of that, and it's client gets hacked, it's fixed. Like for me, it's just like easy, it's simple. My team knows it, we know it, and it's just like, it's just easier. And so I mostly just move my hosts over, my clients over what I want. And then really automation, all this stuff, if you take anything away from this presentation, it's unmind set. It's when you do things and you do it once, you go, okay, you do it twice, you go, you do it three times, there is a better way. Because if you can itemize what it is step by step, either a tool can do it or someone else can do it. But everyone in this room, your time is too valuable for you to be doing it. That Zapier example started off for me writing my systems and processes for a VA. I was like, because that's an important thing when you hire. You can't just throw it over the fence, it is your business, you do need to come up with how are things gonna work around here, what is the flow, what are the expectations? A lot of times I save myself time by just doing a new video, I'll just put on my headphones, I'll screen record and let somebody else deal with documenting it. They can spend five hours turning it into an official document. I only want to have 15 minutes documenting this is what I want. But I found myself as I was figuring out what the steps were, I went, wow, I don't even actually need a person to do this. There's a tool that can do it. But again, it's a mindset. And automation and all of these things, it's like teaching your kids how to tie their shoes. There's gonna be some upfront time. When you guys planning to go to college with your kids so you can tie their shoes, yeah. Take the time, you will celebrate every single time they tie their own shoes. I added this, because again, I get these questions, what are the tools I'm using and do you know these changed? But these are the tools I'm using right now. You do not need to use all of this. And so that's why I practice a lot of this stuff when I started with something as free and simple as you're using Google Gmail. You don't need to be this fast. You don't need to be this sophisticated. These things come with cost. Now I will argue how much is your time worth. So always look at these things going, $10 a year between dollars a year, that adds up. But sometimes it's okay, it adds up. You need to know your numbers and your business. And many friends out here, we talk about business. I get all the probabilities so far, because it's important. Some expenses are good, what you, bill is good and the difference needs to be a positive number. But as I mentioned, they appear, book me is what I'm using right now, better proposals, active campaign, and other things. Another thing that I'll touch on, this is actually a more valuable slide. I manage WP is what I'm using right now to really manage all my maintenance sites and to use my seed site to clone. It's kind of instead of going into different installs to see where things are, it pulls it into a hub. There's other things like daily backups that's really useful. You already know I love Gravity Forms. I want to give some shout outs to people in the community who have been instrumental in my journey through my business. You never know in some ways who to thank for what, you just know that you've arrived and they've been on your journey. And so two of the ones I will mention is Jennifer Bourne, a propo project plan. She's got an amazing program where she really dips into all of the email correspondence that you can do as you move through a project. And she's part of the reason I think for kind of my mind flipping and starting to zero in on these things. WP Elevation with Troy Dean, he's also an amazing program of about 700 online WordPress professionals. More than that, I've gone through the program probably like three, four thousand, really. And that is also a lot of seeing yourself as a business and that's valuable. And then these tools were really, these books were really good for me. Built to sell was one, worked the systems free. I didn't retraction, I kind of got to development burnout by the time I got there, but I do know it's a great resource audit. But all of these help you, how do you think about your business in a way of automation and a way it can run without you? Because it is so important as business owners that we have these systems in place. We owe it to ourselves, we get it out of our own head. We owe it to our clients that they can always expect consistent product from us. And I'd like to say these things bring you up, like this automation was great, I learned to spoke at conference in Canada. These things were just running, like signing contracts, thank you, and they were scheduling and all this was running while I was busy focusing on my conference. That was a planned escape or vacation for my business. What if I get by a car, like what if I get sick, what if I'm out running reason? All of these places where we add automation, where we're really looking at what does a product that goes through our business look like, how's it done, what kind of our customers count on from us? I think it we owe it to them as we mature, because that's a business. For me, I know that was a huge step because I went from a freelancer mindset to an agency, but I wonder if even as a freelancer, I still owed the same thing, even though I'm not sure I was thinking in that mindset. So that's all I got for you today. I went through it kind of fast, but if you guys have any questions for me, anything I can answer, I'll turn on my business, automation, all of this stuff. It's later in the day, the questions are here. Do you have any clients that catch on to the fact that these are camera responses? Oh, do I have clients that catch on to this? Actually, so no. That blows me away. I have seen emails, this is what's funny about the lay person. Again, we see all this stuff. And so the camera response is absolutely not because it's coming from Gmail, so it doesn't have a little message at the bottom that's coming from a server. But even your clients don't because I have some emails that are in my automations, like newsletter sequence. It's like, hey, how are you doing, any problems? And they reply like, I just wrote them a personal email. And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I forgot that was automated. So the answer is no. And honestly, I don't know, I guess the flip would be look at the value and the role modeling you're doing. Your role modeling, I'm a professional that has a system, I've got you. I'm not meaning this. I'm not making this up as I go, this is how we move through my business. So I guess it's like everything else is how you look at it. I don't know if you're seeing the cheap but you're seeing the efficiency, right? They're benefiting from it. And that structure and that stuff, that confidence you're instilling is really priceless because they're coming to you because they need your help because maybe they tried to do it themselves and they figured out this is not my wheelhouse, it's yours. Yes? Let's get a mic. Yeah, it's a mic. Thank you for backing onto that question. Do you ever take the opportunity to add into your canned responses a little personal message? Just to make it a little more personal, like your canned response here and then, oh, I really love dogs. This would be a fun site to work with if you want. You know that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, I suppose in some ways I do, it kind of, let me think. I mean, I think I do edit them sometimes but usually I don't need to. The other thing I'll say is sometimes I flip the order. So this is an interesting thing from a, so order meaning like the sales call versus the fill out by request form. So for example, if you're in a position where you're like, I am busy, I can't even have the one more lead right now, go to the sales, fill out the form, I'll make you jump through my hoops, right? If I'm more in the space of like, I'm kind of more flexible with these leads, I'd like more people to talk to, then it's like, yeah, schedule a call with me and then I'll say to prepare for our call, I'd really like to fill out this form so I have the information I need because the form is a barrier to entry. I mean, that's the important thing I think with forms is that you only ask what's essential. Too short, too long is, you know, so like if I'm in that space where I'm like, I want more leads and it's the nice type form of I want you, please fill this out. If you don't fill it out, then I can decide if I'm gonna force the issue. Likewise, again, if I'm in the position of, you know, buyer's market, seller's market, then I can be a little bit more like, no, you're gonna hop through my hoops and you're gonna only then am I going to, because I'm busy. And so I do kind of play with it based on where I'm at in my business, yes? Yeah. And then the other question is, after the year that you outline your follow-ups, do you continue that process or do you have any suggestions on how often you contact clients? All right, so why Active Campaign? It's working for me, and again, it's like I like the use of the tags and the ability. Now MailChimp, I think has that now. At the time, MailChimp didn't have as many nods to twist. And so it's like most things, right? You're looking at price point functionality and I'm a firm believer that really knowing your flow is more important than your tool. If you really know your flow, then that's what's timeless. The tool can change and add and flow. So that's kind of the answer to that. It meets my needs at a price point I can tolerate. Beyond the year, honestly, then they're more dropped on a normal list which ebbs and flows how much I pay attention to it. That's the truth. I mean the truth is that we only have, this is a work in progress. This is the polish I have to date. It could always be better. It has been worse. We're all smoothing that needle forward. So I don't know what the right response is. I've been told ask for referrals about every six months which to me feels like a lot. But I think sometimes we forget. We feel like we're always bugging them. They've got so much noise, they probably don't even hear how well we sound them. So I guess maybe that's very Amy test. I have done that sometimes in some of my things where I'll suddenly come to a point and I'll say like, okay 50% bother and 50% give them another six months off and I kind of will look at how the data shakes out. But we all know there are days where we're analyzing our business and days where we're just working it. And yeah, that's the truth, right? Yes. So do you use active campaign as your CRM or do you have another CRM? I don't really have a CRM right now. I mean, as far as lead stuff, I mostly, and I know that's the wrong answer. At least it's supposed to be the wrong answer. I'm supposed to have a CRM. I have my clients in Congress so I've got their name, their email, their business and stuff. So I have that respect as far as like leads to the pipeline and all that. I haven't gotten there, I haven't needed to get there. I've always been pretty busy with my business and so I just happened. I'm gonna answer. Anybody else got a question for me? You guys good or? I know it's second day after and everyone's like done. Yes. Do you use markets for building? Yes, so Harvest is good for me because I use it for, I've got all of my team in there, so I've got about five units which, yes, does get expensive, but what you gotta do sometimes. And so yes, I use it for invoicing and building. It's nice because I can see like my team, I use teamwork for my project to do list tracking. They play nice together. So my team has their to do list. They'll just put their time in Harvest. I can see very easily who spent how much time on what my project cost, what am I building out. So it works well for me. People use fresh books. I mentioned 17 hats because I think that's great for the solo business owner. It doesn't scale for teams, but it does look like a great solution if you are solo. So Harvest is what I'm using. Again, I think it was cheaper than fresh books was getting kind of pricey. It's again, it's where I'm at. It works and that, yeah, I use, so for my to-dos, I use teamwork. Not a huge base cap fan, that's me. Slack works really well for internal conversation. I like that. I set up a channel for every single project. So it's kind of like you've got your trains of thought. We used to all just be free for all in Skype. Who's talking about what, right? This way we have some structure. So when there's a conversation, we know what's going on. Again, Dropbox happens to be what I use. Google Drive would work as well. But I really am loving my automated file structure. That has been really, really nice for me. Just Dropbox and just, so what I did was something as simple as, what you say simple, but yet it's useful. Clients, client name, project name. And so you just have this very organized you know how to find stuff. And that's the thing is, you know, Ron and I were speaking, it's like with a lot of these things just kind of come up with a system and lean into it. Knowing you might give it, you might change, that's okay. But just lean into it and start moving the needle forward. Yes? Did you do this all at once? Or did you kind of evolve into each other? Yeah, this naturally showed up here once. Well, and that is the thing. And that is the biggest piece that I like felt in sharing this all with you and why I say I've been doing this for 10 years. You know, and even that doesn't even mean anything necessarily. You know, this is something I probably see in the last year and a half. I've really been on this like awareness as I've moved into an agency, as I've been doing coaching, as I've been doing more speaking, as I've been more out of my business. I've realized the necessity of this. See, when it's just you, you hold it all in your head. But then when you start having a team, they need to know how to be successful, what's expected, and also I was really starting to realize like what a product leaves my agency, what check should happen. And it shouldn't be like, oh, shoot, did I? I think I did this. One, that's not a equal use of time, and two, it feels unprofessional. And so a lot of it was me stepping into saying, I need to be a grown-up here. And this is a grown-up look like. And then on the side effect I had in C coming was the benefit, the relief you get when you do start to do this. I don't probably don't have time. Oh, I don't have time. I have later slide deck that slides that I didn't actually mention. This continues on to pull this part out. But I did do actually a full-blown Google website of my business. And so what I do, when I look at my workflows, like where the workflow is, sales, onboarding, discovery, design, development, launch, what are the pieces? And so what I did is instead of going really deep in my documentation, I went wide. I said, okay, these are the wide things. And then I cycle back around. So this example I talk about onboarding. So, okay, onboarding. Well, what does onboarding look like? Well, I'm gonna send the welcome email to the kickoff call, add the clients to my tools. Okay, what does the welcome email look like? Well, I'm gonna use a mailing list tool. I'm gonna have this trigger. It's gonna look like this. It's gonna look like that. And so how I approach this stuff is instead of going super deep and just having like one thing done and being like, oh my god, I'm exhausted. I instead have been taking it and like paces through my business. I'd be like, here's my workflow. And at least I had that documented with how my workflow was. But I said, all right, for each step of my workflow, what are the sub points? And I went through and did that and I'm like, okay, I'm not much deeper. And I cycle back around. And what I was careful of when I did the workflow is to, there was a difference between like the leads of I'm using Harvest and the workflow and the system of I put them in an invoicing tool. And so the invoicing tool will always be true. Harvest may change. And so when I sort of did my systems and processes, I kept it very much at this high level of what, if I really take a step back, what am I doing? I'm putting them in communication tools. I'm putting them in this type of tool and that type of tool. So I kind of differentiated the, and here's how you put them in the tool, boom, boom, boom, boom, to really deep. Versus this timeless information which theoretically almost always be true for my business. And then what I would do is link to a Google Doc which went into the leads. But that was how I helped myself not get completely overwhelmed by trying to take this incredible amount of stuff that was in my head and get it out of my hand paper without just getting like so down this one and being like, well, I've done, it's like when you clean your house you're all excited about the one where you clean till you see the rest of the house and like forget it. This is the way I'm kind of doing a little dusting everywhere. All right guys, I think that was pretty much.