 So at this point we will be doing a panel discussion so I will be adding my Tina here and also inviting Emily Hamilton to come back as well. Is Emily here. Emily is here she's slow. Hi friends, how are you. You're almost two weekend. So I, I think I'm going to kick this off. And it's my pleasure to say I'm also disclosed that while there was one form of discipline in preparing my remarks and not preparing my remarks before I sat and listened this week. There was a very different logic to engaging with what this conference was about and when the organizers asked me to participate. I asked if we could have regular check ins for six months leading up to the process because there's an incredibly different story around the meta of a conference, and I think so many lessons are learned as we, as we have seen over the course of the week in the process of building something whether it be a 3D object, or whether it be a gathering of people to talk about issues. So, I have journaled this team's process in planning. And we have talked a lot about some of the issues that underpin how this conference was shaped. And the questions that I posed to them, I would say, I would actually extend them to the entire audience here to everybody listening in. These are questions I would be personally interested to know the answers to and I wonder if AC FAC and the organizers of tech focus for what also like to know them so I'm going to, kick us off and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to ask us to go in alphabetical order so Alex with without putting you on the spot. If, if, if you could kick us off. As you know, I had, I did have the up close view on what's been going on with this gathering and, and as I just mentioned to everybody I've been keeping lots of notes. If anything in these last few days, we've seen that there are many, many important pressing questions and concerns regarding 3D printing. But why is this conference important to you. Well contemporary art is so challenging and so exciting and fun to work with. And it's impossible for one conservator to be an expert in everything that artists are working in. What I was really hoping through this conference, a personal goal of mine was to provide a kind of framework that other conservators who were attending this now have a little bit more knowledge about what kinds of questions to ask, or how to approach the issues that we faced in stewarding the care for 3D printed artworks and files, and also working with external vendors to get what is needed for exhibition is truly with a lot of artworks in general but especially with contemporary art exhibition is the way to keep these artworks alive. Thanks Alex. Emily. Well, one thing that comes to my mind is that the nature of our work with objects is responsive. So we are charged first with with dealing things that are collected and then going back a step beyond that that are that are made and in this situation. There's this whole world of development that's happening in industry, and there's a little bit of a delay from then what artists will choose to use and then what what a curator might choose to collect and I was very, very keenly interested in learning more about what's in the pipeline what what should we be expecting and learning from other institutions about how they're already engaging in this this very new technology. So, that's my thought. Thank you. I had, I had to go through. I think a much darker, much darker valley and answering the question why is a, why is a conference on 3D printed art important while the planet is heating up and the water levels are rising and we're talking about pieces of plastic and creating more plastic so I've been quite quite grappling with this question. And then, and then you listen to a talk by Virginia San Fratello, who's talking to us about how she's taking all these rubber pieces and collecting all the, all the wooden chips that other people want to get rid of and she creates these pieces of art and inspires us actually by, by making these works to look at or to make us reflect on the, the part that we can take in fighting the climate change and and I'm, you know, and then we're hearing about Jelly T's work this morning and that is really beautiful works that just go so far beyond the material and they, they, they move us and they make us feel things so that's, that's how I found, that's how I found back out of this dark valley and just looking at these beautiful works that, that make us human and distinguish us from just, yeah, non human beings. Thank you. You know, I'm going to stick with you Martina in, in maybe asking a bit of a follow up and then ask Emily and, and Alex to join in but, you know, there's in your response. There's something about the roof, the internal reflection that goes on in the practices of conservation, and something that also continues to underpin outward outward exploration of the materials and the objects that are being created by artists and designers. And, and I'd love to ask you to reflect a little bit on how in 2021 that toggling between the internal reflection in the rapid fire technology technological advances sort of maps in your head and in your, in your life. Do you mean, do you mean how, how can we as conservators, sort of preserve this, this, this radicality that these objects. That's where it takes you go for it. If that's where it takes you I'm really sort of thinking about the way that you balance. I didn't hear it. Oh my internet connection. You know, I, I don't know if we, I don't know if we can preserve the radicality of these, of these objects, since that is so, in my opinion, so tied to this, to this one moment in time that like we today we don't know the radicality that a VHS video recorder had. I mean, I remember it because I went through that process as having one at some point. So I, I don't know, I've been wondering that too often with the performance pieces and performance art whether, whether we are able to to conserve that context that that that people or anybody experiencing a certain artwork in a certain timeframe, whether we cannot preserve that timeframe I think we can talk about it we can, you know, document it but this this this very heartfelt guts experience I think that is something that is maybe not conservable and and with the radicality of this technology I mean, I think it will it will move on and maybe it will get even more radical. But I don't know if, if, if a 3d print that that has a very low resolution will be very radical in five years but I'm curious what other people are thinking about that. If I can jump in, I feel like that ties to what you said in your talk Jill about how do we meet artists where they are as an overall charge how do we meet artists where they are in order to, you know, to understand the sense of radicality and really in a time and in what their goals are in their project, and a point that came up in one of our earlier conversations is is what are what are the limitations of our empathy in doing so is that is that a tool of conservation in order to understand what the works are. So that's one thing I went back to. I'm making me think I'm sorry Alex one second I just want to add something to that. You're making me think about another thing that that could be considered and that is these boundaries that we create between disciplines. And I'm not thinking about curators and conservators right now and thinking about art and science. Science is a word that was made up in the 19th century it's not. It's, it's an it's a word that was that was, I think there's a sign there's a, there was somebody at Oxford, who came up with the term and I, I find that to be really interesting because you proposed, but maybe some of the radicality of these works is in starting to tell the stories of the science that's been going on and art museums being places that tell the stories of the science and the developments masses with categories of learning that we have inherited in kind of a radical way or two. Alex I'm sorry I interrupted you. No worries, I actually took a question slightly I interpreted it slightly differently so what what it brought up to me is I was thinking about the last two years. Everyone, I'm sure here can relate to the immense amount of stress and the really the realization that we, we probably need to have better boundaries between our personal life and our work life. And that's all of the work that's been put up upon us, and I was thinking a lot about how, when you really dig down into these types of artworks. There's really a myth out there that they they're like rapid prototypes that you could just push a button and it goes. But really you have to think about the network of different people that are there, the technology that's around. What kinds of other practices are done. I mean we heard a lot. I mean, especially with Peter and Megan and their talk today when they discussed just all the work that went into reprinting that piece and then me and finding that there are like pink dots on it. And Michelle barger also brought up the idea of like these hitting costs, and how that also affects exactly like what gets displayed and what makes it through. I thought a little bit more about kind of the, the kind of, I guess the, the, not the stresses but the amount of work that is then put upon those in the museum environment, if we are to then commit to preserving and reprinting these works. Thank you. I'm going to stick with you Alex on this and sort of imagine that you know this this extraordinary fourth in a series let's hope there's five I don't know is it already, we already named the topic. But soon Jill too soon. Okay. It's the 25th mile in the marathon right. But, but I think is, I think is, as you all, not so much. What happened today or Wednesday or Monday but really is the organizers of this conference. Yeah, I see says what are some of the biggest concerns that you have about 3D printing. What might be some of the answers that you would that you would report back. The answers to that or the answers that 3D printing can possibly fix. Oh, I was thinking of the ICs, you know, challenges to conservation but I mean, take it in both directions. I actually think that there potentially are some really interesting environmental impacts that can be fixed with 3D printing. If it is truly about the concept and about, you know, the files of the artwork and then that's just an output that is then shown in a similar way that sometimes in photography we have exhibition prints, or if there's the things that are meant to be destroyed after play, there is a potential to save a lot of, you know, carbon, just think about carbon offsetting and a lot of stress on the environment by not having to ship things around the world, and also in making different artworks accessible to a lot of different parts of the world that may not have a large budget to ship original objects. So there is a possibility there. What are the answers for what kind of answers we have here because I think everything's so complex. It's something that makes life so interesting. Emily Martina, any thoughts on that? I don't know if it's necessarily a challenge but it's it's been really interesting to hear people's kind of offhand expectations and then frustrations with expectations for this technology like I am thinking of Paula Antonoli saying that she thought the printers would be on every corner and you know everything would be super accessible and so it's, I almost feel like one of the challenges is, is like getting our minds to accept what the technology can do and how it can be used versus like this idea that it'll fix everything. I don't know. That's where my mind goes. Martina? Well, I think I want to go to maybe the other direction that your question had in Peto and I'm recalling that Tatiana Cole posted in the chat at some point where she asked, hey, can we just look at contemporary photography and make comparisons and sort of look at the practice of contemporary photographers reprinting their works and I have to admit that I went into this project or this conference with my background in media conservation where you're very quickly create an exhibition copy and you have a master of each sort of export something and and of course even in this fear you have your criteria of quality and and you're staying true to the installation instructions, but it comes much, you know, I would say maybe to the notion that there is a master in a different sphere and then creating something that is then accessible in the galleries is not that far, far away and and I'm, I don't know, I have not spoken with Peter about that but I would I would assume that him going into the reprinting and maybe I should speak for Peter here, but I could imagine that this this would was a very similar like oh well we'll just send it out to the printer and and and have have another copy being made or have it being reprinted and then seeing the hoops that go into that and then changing that. Well, I think we should try to conserve the objects as much as possible so anyways this was my, I think I'm only sharing the shift that I've I underwent going, you know, listening to everybody's talks preparing for this conference. I think that yeah it's it may be a viable preservation strategy to reprint but it should not be a first go to. Yeah. Thank you. I think we wanted to make time and I'm conscious that we're seven minutes to the hour when you are hoping I think to wrap up but I'm conscious that we wanted to at least leave a little space for questions from our participants. And I don't know if there are any I'm not good at doing three things at once here. There aren't there are none yet but if people want to we're monitoring the chat and the Q&A. If anybody wants to join this conversation. How was it for you to how have you been I mean you've given us so such deep reflection on this on this conference but if I may ask you back what is your, how do you feel about reprinting. So, so I can't help anymore as you know, I'm thinking about the specifics of objects but also going very high and altitude and really thinking about the larger infrastructures that we've made for culture. So, I feel so strongly that what we do in conservation is really much part of a much larger sector, a much larger sector and we're all interconnected. The idea that we can somehow marshal change in a sequestered space that is just conservation feels impossible to me and I, and so I'm really struck by that but I guess the other reflection that I would share with you which is a. Maybe it's a coven maybe it's a post pandemic maybe it's a, you know somehow there's a threshold for me and that is that I spent so much of my life operating in this field for an institution for one institution. And I've come now that I operate independently to understand how much that institutional culture influences the way work is done but also what the possibilities are. And so, I use that not. I mean I believe in institutions I believe in machines that do this work I'm really steadfast in that, but I've really come to live this idea of how interconnected are methods of conservation are because they are not neutral. And there are financial constraints there are different cultural constraints there are any number of issues that influence the way that we proceed with, with a treatment so I'm really really looking at those issues and I think I think I spoke my mind when I sort of said. What an extraordinary opportunity to feel hopeful in the presence of people who are using these technologies right now, and the way that they're applying them. And I'd love to see our field responding kind, I would really love to see our field sort of take that as almost a challenge. And think about the ways that we would retool or maybe even just refresh. How we go about doing our work can be very heavy and and and urgent times for the planet. Any other thoughts or questions. A comment in the q amp a here so Michelle says, this is more of a comment, it seems to me that early 3d printed works that came into the SF mama collection, almost two decades ago had much less post production. And I feel that informed our initial thoughts about the possibility of reprinting as a preservation plan. It seems that artists are now manipulating the method and materials in new ways that make reprinting a much more challenging preservation solution. Yes, I definitely agree with us. I think is almost in a way, you know Sarah scotero awesome mention this as well that the fashion designers that you're working with you see this final polished product. It looks one way, and it looks so like, I mean, the example that she was saying was that it looks really futuristic. But then when you look down to it there is actually more of that traditional construction. And I think a lot towards I, you know, some of the methods that Megan was also mentioning with her experience working in a foundry of how the finisher can make or break the object. That's something that I could definitely see when looking at more modern prints versus earlier prints that maybe didn't have quite as much polish to them. And I do feel like industry has evolved, like just enough where people will will know what the common things are like Tobias mentioned, you know just with SLS white prints always yellow and people know that and now there's other other colors you can bring in where that's less of an issue so I feel like the feel like I go back to Charlotte things. Yeah, comment that industry is on top of this and will resolve some of the common issues as these do kind of become more, more products. I wanted to comment the other day in one of our conversations about how you visited a, you visited a printing studio and you were struck and remember, I realized it really hit you that this is a multi billion dollar industry and we're just looking at a tiny little fraction of it. The early days of some of a new industry are exciting times and really interesting to remember and you know I remember pre Java what it was like to do coding right so but not. Then, then there were tools that were developed or I remember a curator of photography, thinking about photography in the early digital printing realm. And he described the early days is giving us 13 year old an electric guitar you know what I mean it's just, it just it's it's going through a stage of growth that that ultimately will not be there but it's really interesting to watch. So, we thought we've reached out the hour and I, I was wondering whether this is a good moment to sort of close this. This week of talking and considering and rethinking and re reordering our thoughts around these works of art. Now, Jill, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for not just your incredible reflection that you did today but thank you also for the many hours that you've spent talking to us and discussing with us and journaling the our, our thoughts and our conversations and thank you for joining us on this journey. It was such a pleasure. My pleasure thanks so much. And I know that there's a there's a mirror board. I'm hoping everybody puts a dot in the, we want to send this around at the end of, well, at some point we want to send this around so if you have not placed your dot yet that would be cool. I also know that Sarah wants to say a few things before we head out. But before that, I want to say, thank you to all our speakers. Thank you for the incredible talks. Thank you for all the participants. Thank you for asking questions and partaking in this conversation. Thank you to my co organizers, Alex, thank you for being the trooper that you were. Thank you, Emily, for for the for the journey and I don't know Alex do you want to say a few more things. Thank you took the words out of my mouth. And thank you to everyone who's really spent these this whole week with us exploring and learning more. And I'm really hoping that this moves forward where there's a little bit more of a global network where people can discuss a lot of these issues and questions and otherwise very much looking forward to the IP eyes research will be really great to see what they come up with as well.