 I love looking at what are the ways you can reinvent legacy and then also where can you find the intersection of legacy and new? Kathleen, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. I would love to start off talking about the role of the CMO and how has that changed? Do you need to be a generalist now to kind of get the job done? I believe you do. I believe the span of sort of media research, creative, it's pretty complex and I think the more you have experience and toes in all of those disciplines, the better off you are. And especially the research side, I feel like that's really emerged as insights are everything. No great idea was built on pretend, you know. So I've really enjoyed having that component of the job. I used to work for a, because it described insights as like a refrigerator. So when you look inside, kind of a light goes off and you kind of like everything comes alive. But my refrigerator is never clean. That wasn't a good analogy. I thought like, anyway, yes, you're right. I always think of peeling the onion to me. There's the obvious kind of like insight, but then there's the what's the real motivating thing underneath. Like you have to keep. Like we did the girls in STEM work. Do you remember that work that won the class line? And the initial issue we were going after is why aren't there more women in technology? Well, they're not graduating from the right colleges. Well, with the right degrees. You could stop there and say, we need more women in this company, but we kept peeling back. And basically what you find is they're not going to the right colleges because they're not sticking with STEM like activities. Because between fourth and fifth grade around middle school, being good at this becomes a social stigma. So if the girl sticks with it, she's the lonely girl. So like that was the insight. And then we went and asked girls, you know, so it's, you have to keep kind of digging that, you know, beyond the obvious. So it's interesting. You talked about the girls in STEM. Think about kind of inclusion and diversity. Like what's the power in terms of advertising, saying that Microsoft seems to have leaned into in the past. You know, we have, you know, it's not like a new thing for us, right? Like we've been doing this for so long because it's kind of natural to me. I grew up in the Bronx. I don't even know what I went to in New York. Or I'm like... I can hear it. Yeah, a little bit. My mother would be disappointed if you can hear it. She always corrected us. Don't... Anyway, I think, you know, when you have a billion customers of 1.6 billion around the world, a few of them are going to be full of color, a few of them are not going to speak English. Like I think it was much more endemic to our business early on. So the representation was more natural and also we focused on real people. So it was just, I don't know, it was fairly natural and an extension of who we are. So we hear it can, seeing lots of innovative work. Thinking about kind of the rise of digital, does legacy media still have a place? Absolutely. You know, I feel like sometimes the opportunity is using legacy in a new way. Look at Survivor Billboard, one of the biggest winners at Cannes. It's a traditional outdoor board rethought, you know, putting humans up there to compete. So that kind of thing I love. I love looking at what are the ways you can reinvent legacy. And then also, where can you find the intersection of legacy and new? So how can you have, you know, for example, when we put teams in the NBA, do you remember that? Yes. We all sponsored it, but it was our technology underneath. So it's a second and third screen engagement combined with legacy media that makes it so interesting. So I think those are the opportunities. And so the other thing is we've never replaced what legacy can offer, which is instantaneous communal mass reach. And what I miss as a marketer is that, you know, who shot JR the next day, everybody saw your commercials. Like you need, and we're talking about it, like Super Bowl is probably the only thing left where people say, hey, did you see that last night? I miss that as part of normal culture, because if you're watching Succession and I'm watching Attorney Wu or whatever, we're not in sync. We may eventually have that to talk about, but it's not communal at the moment in time. I completely understand the ability to kind of tap into a moment and these moments in culture that kind of people are talking about in Vulture and Share. So I think live sports is probably the one thing left, which, you know, isn't enough for me. So I'm really bad to AI. And I'm sure you've sat on a few panels discussing it and Microsoft have obviously made some plays in this area. But I'm thinking about AI in terms of AI, a creative partner. And so sometimes people talk about we are kind of, we're not actually in the age of AI. We're in the age with AI. And so I'd love to understand kind of, can it be a complement to this human creative mind? I think you set me up perfectly. I think people are naturally trepidatious, especially in the creative industry of what is the expectation that this will do? Will it replace me? Will it hamper me and channel me in ways I don't want to be channeled? So interesting enough, our installation at our beach house for Cannes, we said, hey, what if we kind of crowdsourced the creative for this? And we get, we have multiple agencies that work with us. We asked all of them to use Bing Image Creator to create a sea creature. Whatever they wanted to create. Within a week, we got 2,000 responses, 2,000 responses. Sorry, 2,000. 2,000 responses. Because we said anybody at your agencies, you know, Siegel and Gail, you know, Instrument, McCann, WynR, Wonderman, whoever wants to, you know, submit, submit. And there were a couple amazing things that happened. First of all, inevitably people submitted either in writing or video their experience, which went from, I'm going to hate this, to I can't stop doing this. I love, there was absolute joy in it, and you have to come down and see the work. The work is stunning, and the interesting thing is, I couldn't do it. It still requires a level of creativity that only creatives have, but having it express their creativity in a way they never thought possible, instantaneously and gorgeously. And it was, it's just amazing. And the other interesting thing is, you know, one of the ongoing fears of AI is the lack of inclusivity. And what we found was, I hate to use this analogy, but it's kind of true, like, you know how dogs look like their people, or people look like their dogs? In this case, you could see the creator in the work. Like, the expression, like, one guy's a rabid saxophone fan. And his octopus is a saxophone. Like, so you could see, or another woman is a big textile and knitter. And her, I'm going to say it wrong, nudifranc, which is an animal or a sea creature, had, like, embroidery through it. Like, it's just, so the, the personnel, we have, we have a team in the Ukraine who's still working, designing for us. And their octopus looks like, almost like a Faberge egg in Ukrainian colors. So people's culture and their self-expression come through. It doesn't hamper it, it enables it. So we've been very pleasantly surprised, and I think the community has been very pleasantly surprised. I think on the copy side, what we're finding, because we've explored quite a bit with, you know, how could it benefit us in the, in copywriting, it actually, it actually saves a lot of time, because you can put parameters in. Like, I need a blog written in the voice of this person, because it's been trained to that person. So many characters, blah, blah, blah. It, it's good. It's, it's more like fodder for edit. I think for me, you still need to add, like, brand voice and emotion. But I'm sure there's a point where we will train to brand voice. And then it's, so it's more about, you're not, you might not be Hemingway, but you're more Max, right? You're editing it versus writing it. So, you know, I think it's what you make of it. But the initial responses we've gotten are just phenomenal, especially on the visual side. Amazing. Yeah. Come by, see it. I will, I will. So finally, greenwashing or, or, or virtue signaling, as I like to talk about it. I think a lot of brands say a lot of things and, and, and play in the space. But, but what does it mean to be a truly sustainable brand today? Well, to your point, it's not greenwashing. You got to walk the walk on virtually everything. And you have to, you have to really think about everything. Like to the point of, we were, we were talking yesterday about production and the opportunity for sustainability. Like how much food are you putting out for craft services? And what are those utensils? And how many times do we reuse anything? I, you know, you have to think about, it's all the little things that people always go to, how many people went to the shoot and who flew? I don't, I don't think the carbon output of the commercial line is going to be our biggest issue. It's more all the other little things that will add up. So I think like most things, if you can't measure it, you really can control it. And we're working on making sure we have consistent kind of scorecarding. It's, it's what we did with DNI in the beginning too. It's not that we set up quotas and requirements. We just made ourselves aware and just being aware and then made you conscious and through that real change happened. Like we're two and three times the industry representation on our creative and media teams right now, just because we're aware. I think that's where we're moving with sustainability. We're not quite there yet on, you know, what does that scorecard look like? But a consistent view of achievement is what we need. And I also think it's where Microsoft comes in, like our capability for giant companies to be able to get a handle on that and, and sort of make sense of it because incremental change on large scale is meaningful, right? So that's what we're hoping for. Excellent. And I'm curious, what, what do you, to kind of push your team further in this direction, kind of, is that, is there a working point to, yeah, so. Yeah, we, well, we have, like we've had several meetings here about this. You know, we're working with a couple of new entities who are focused on this in the industry to learn from them. And we, we meet constantly. Again, there's a lot of parallels with DNI because, you know, we looked at, what is everyone else doing and what's working? There's not a lot. So people are now looking back at us to say, well, what are you doing? So we're trying to codify things. But we did things like, what Microsoft has that's unique is we have the ability to influence a lot of other partners. So the ripple effect that we have. So for, for diversity, you know, we, we used our might to make sure that we're hiring minority owned businesses. We're making sure that we're investing in minority owned businesses and we're representing in our staff. We have a diverse supplier program where we onboard diverse companies especially to make sure we don't overwhelm them. We, we, like there's a lot of education and involvement. I see the same thing happening on the sustainability side where we're looking for partners who have niches of goodness that they understand that we don't understand and then leveraging them to make change. So it's pretty nascent. Like I don't like to say greenwashing is a good thing to be careful of because it's like, oh, we got this. You know, it's really like any solution. You got to identify the problem clearly first and then work backwards. And I think we're still looking at where are all the areas of opportunity for impact, but we don't have all the answers yet. But commitment is nine tenths of success, right? Exactly. I, I, it's a, but how you describe it, it, it sounds like it's, it's, it's not about it as a marketing opportunity but actually a responsibility. Yeah. Marked it. Yeah. And the marketing opportunity, you know, for years now, we, we talked about using drones and surfaces to see black rhinos in Africa. And we've, we've, you know, the, the snow leopard tracking we've done with AI. Like we were leveraging AI to better the planet. I was more focused on as an industry, the advertising and marketing industry. How are we going to achieve some success and momentum here? And that's relatively nascent. So, thank you. Thanks.