 You know us here at mine pump. We really enjoy the podcast space There's some phenomenal podcast out there outside of of course your favorite podcast mine pump And we found a new one that we really really enjoy in fact one of the hosts You and a jada was actually a mine pump fan. I've actually been on their podcast, but it's a it's a done It's a very well done podcast that revolves around food and health It's exceptional in fact one of the recent episode Episodes disordered eating and eating disorders is exceptional. So the podcast is called Food we need to talk the hosts are you and a jada and dr. Eddie Phillips and they talk about you know nutrition and exercise and all Things health it is an NPR podcast. So, you know, it's super high quality great sound great production They have an Instagram page. It's at food. We need to talk I think you're gonna enjoy it. Make sure you go check them out in this episode of mine pump. We talk about Meal plans meal plans are probably the most basic Consistent I would say popular way of trying to lose weight or change body composition Unfortunately meal plans totally suck They just don't work and we explain why in this episode You should never follow a diet that is based off of meal plans So we talk about why people don't stick to them and why when people do stick to them It's still not a good thing. We talk about how it convinces people that healthy eating is not for them how it doesn't set you up for real life and You know, it's like getting the answers without figuring out how to do the work without figuring out the process Now before the episode starts We are in March one of our most popular newest maps programs maps power lift is 50% off Now this is a program that centers around the three main big lifts bench press Deadlift and squat if you want to get really really strong at those amazing exercises This program is exceptional Of course, if you want to compete in powerlifting and you've never done it before or you've only done it once or twice Follow this program along within this program. We also have power lifting Coaching that teaches you about the sport of power lifting But again, if you don't even want to compete you just want to get really strong at those lifts This program will deliver again. It's 50% off. Here's how you get that discount go to maps power lift Com that's MAPS POWER LIFT.com and use the code power 50. That's POW WER 5-0 no space for the discount dude We need to do I still see this happen a lot You know, it's funny. I forgot that this happened a lot until I see certain people posting things and asking questions Mm-hmm. We need to talk about the dietary practice Known as meal plans. Hmm. I don't really know that we've addressed this in full length yet I this is something that I've noticed You know, like there's just tons of different options out there online just like you find workout plans that are sort of just floating around that You know, certain people are promoting meal plans is it's it's a big deal in our space Let's talk about why meal plans suck. So totally. Thank you for it. Well first off I mean, which I think is a controversial statement. Yeah, or unpopular especially coming from it's one of the worst dietary strategies You can have yeah by far. It's so to for the for people listening or don't quite understand what a meal plan is It's not a specific Macro breakdown. It's not a specific dietary Philosophy like keto or vegan or paleo. It can be all of those things what a meal plan is is is like this 8 a.m. I eat one cup of oatmeal two whole eggs three ounces of cheese You know at 10 a.m. My snack consists of one slice of whole wheat bread, you know, two ounces of turkey Almond's it's it's a meal plan is when your food is literally Planned out that way where you follow a specific Meal plan and then the way you you live your life and do your day Revolves around that rigid structure. Yes, you look at the you know, oh, here's my meal for this is my meal for now And it's all set up and I don't even I don't even think you need to Define it That detail. I think that it's just in general. It's a written plan for the day of what you need to eat And I still think that sucks And it's something that every single person My entire career higher higher me and then they follow up with would you write me a meal plan? Tell me what to eat exactly and for trainers. No exactly what we're talking about and for many years And you know, I'm glad we're going this was a Justin's idea with ironically You know, you know, I come on Right, right. But I mean, this is this is a really actually a really good conversation because I think of the things that we talk about on the show a lot of the motivation of What provided all this content was a lot of things that we think that we did wrong Yeah, when in reality we we thought we were helping people and doing the right thing But what we would end up seeing is this Consistent and what I openly shared on this show is you know, I was ranked the top trainer and I was best and had all these trophies of being great and You know five years into my career and I remember reflecting back and going, you know, if I'm so great Why is it that less than 20% of my clients, you know stick to their results? I'm sure I can get I got a lot of people in shape like I you know I definitely did a good job even as a young trainer short term success rate was high, right Like, you know, if I stick to this, here's your meal plan Here's your workout plan motivate you every day to do it push you hard through it, you know And we start at day one and six weeks from there. I made great change in lots of people's Lives and bodies, but what I would realize is that, you know, time would go by Months would pass and those people would put all that weight back on and it was just kind of this vicious cycle and as a young trainer I used to justify it because well, that's what kept my business running and that I'm that valuable. They need me But what I wasn't doing I wasn't fundamentally changing these people and and setting them up for long-term success I was just giving them the answers of what they needed to do to get their body to change instantly But I wasn't changing behavior from a long term standpoint We just were not effective because to be even more clear The three people you're listening to on this podcast right now 100% used meal plans for at least the first few years. Oh, yeah of our careers I leaned on it really hard and the thing is is that you can get people to conform to what Ideas you want them to move towards you can convince them like I mean that's half of it is first thing is like okay selling them on the idea that You know, you could get to a certain place and you could lose this Amount of pounds and you know, whatever goals are coming in with like I have an answer for you And so this is one of those things I have an answer for that and it looks like this and here's here's how I structured it all out for you And but the problem was like you guys are saying it just wasn't a long-term strategy that was effective Right, and here's here is the formula the formula was Here's your workout Here's your meal plan a big chunk of what I did as a personal trainer in the first few years of being a trainer was Creating meal plans for people and it gets even worse Here's the bad part when my client wouldn't Progress or wouldn't get great results. It was the meal plan Oh, you're not doing your meal plan the reason why you're not getting results is you're not doing the meal plan The reason why I did that was because the formula Worked if you just stuck to this formula. Yeah, it was mathematically figured out. That's it If you just stick to this formula, you're gonna get results But then on the other end of that is It's still not working nobody's following it. Why isn't it working? Oh, it's the person's fault Forget the formula that I'm giving them. It's the person's they're just lazy. Yeah, they're lazy They're not motivated enough. They're not serious about their goals. I mean, do you I remember even doing this Like I remember writing a meal plan or you know back then to uh, you know early days I think I don't think 24 had this one Justin came on I know sour remember this but you could write into apex. Oh, yeah, and that spit off a meal plan And you guys remember like how How how weird and ridiculous it would be it would be like four saltine crackers A half an apple, you know saying like three and a half egg whites. Yeah It was I mean it was the it was the the macro nutrients were perfect for what this person needed to get to their results And that it would spit out the food that matched that and you were so About that that ice would spend The first day for sure presenting it and then weeks afterwards of like Convincing that they need to follow this to get to where they want to be one of the first I remember this like it was I remember this because it hit me like a ton of bricks, right? So here I am. I'm training people Giving them meal plans. I'm probably a year and a half two years I don't know early in my career, but long enough to where I'd been trained You know I'd trained enough people and I had this woman that I trained that was I love training her because she was very objective She presented herself very intelligently So she could work around my false Understandings of why people weren't getting results like most clients I'd be like Oh, you're not getting results because you're not following the meal plan You need to be you know you stick to it and they'd be like, okay You know I'll try harder But she was she was really really smart and she presented herself. Well, so here she is working with me Not getting results and I'm giving her the apex meal plan that it would spit out right and the way it would work Is it would literally try to spit out how to You know perfectly match the macros and the calories right have such weird And yeah, and so so I'm talking to I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, you're just not following your meal plan You're not doing exactly what you're supposed to and she pulled out the meal plan. She goes so Now How many people do you know that eats four tablespoons of peanut butter throughout the day to try and hit their fat goals? I'm like, well, what's and I'm thinking at this point. I'm thinking Food is just a means to an end. It's just calories and macros just do what it says and she goes look I understand That you're counting calories and counting proteins and fats and carbs. She goes but food is also Life it's life. She goes, you know, maybe I could do this For a short period of time But who eats Who eats a sandwich with one slice of bread two ounces of turt whatever because if I eat an extra one I'm off And if I eat the wrong slice I'm too. She says nobody eats like that forever How could this possibly be something that's going to be six? She goes if sure if I'm super anal Super meticulous and I live like a freak for the rest of my life. She goes, but nobody's going to do that She and then she looked at me and she goes, do you eat this way? She's like be honest with me. I was like, no I've done meal plans before and I went off of them because I don't I don't like that way of eating It's unrealistic and it hit me and I remember thinking like Shit, I got to figure this out like what do I do because She's totally right and like what Adam said I am doing I'm I'm okay with short-term results so so long as I could Use my motivational inspirational skills to get the person to stick to what I was But that ran out at some point at some point they became normal people and then it didn't work Well, no doubt the the number one reason why the meal plans suck is because people don't stick to them So what is it about it that you think is that is it the how I didn't learn anything from it? Oh, yeah, that's a big one. But that's the biggest for me. Well, that's a that's a big one But you know when you ask people why don't you stick to this meal plan? Here's the main thing that I would hear right ask yourself this Oh, well life situations. Yeah. Yeah. Ask yourself this. Do you eat? Everything always the same all the time ever No, nobody eats that way. There isn't is you know who eats that way bodybuilders Physique competitors bikini competitors pre-contest They don't even eat that way and neurotic people and very very neurotic people People don't stick to them because sticking to a structured meal plan all the time Turns life into misery it turns It takes food and it boils all down to calories macros and that's it and now life is I also think I also think there's other reasons too. I think it just it requires a whole nother level of discipline to like Man to unnatural discipline. Yeah, exactly like it's You it's already like hard for someone they come in right? Let's take the average person like that is they set a new year's resolution or they come in the gym And they want to lose 20 or 30 pounds Uh, there's a lot of things and behaviors That got them to the place where they're at to have added 30 extra pounds of their body that they now want to lose That as a trainer you're trying to reverse or undo Uh, you know exercising on a regular basis Probably not over binging on food and alcohol or being sedentary Not weight training probably like there's a lot of things they're not doing that they need to do And and obviously a big factor in that is probably not eating the foods They should be eating to get to the where they want to be And then you add in that you're going to give them this very specific Meal plan that they have to also fit into That is extremely difficult and and tough to ask a majority of people to do And then to think that they're going to do it consistently like most people that uh, you know Went to school got a job. They show up every day to work have some level of discipline that they can they can justify on their head like Okay, this is ridiculous I'm gonna have to go to all these weird places to get this food and measure it all out and Plan it a week in advance to make sure I got it all to make this happen But hey, I want to get this I have a wedding coming up where I can do it I can make it happen But the reality is like you don't always have a wedding in three months You don't always have a new year, you know some sort of uh, you know event that's coming up That's really motivated you to do extreme things like this That that is why I think a lot of people just they fall off of because it's such an extreme Measure to get to their results that even if you can do it To get to that point or for a couple months. It's not something you could potentially stick with statistically speaking Um, I would say that between nine to ten out of ten people Don't stick to a meal plan long term. I I can I can almost It's almost impossible right now for me to think of all my years of training The clients and none of them are actually popping up right now that I actually had a meal plan and then stuck to it Long term it's got such a low Success rate that it's if you're a trainer and this is how this is your strategy of nutrition for your clients You are losing an almost 100 fail rate strategy. It's a terrible strategy It's like when you're a trainer you want to find strategies that have a high success rate This one the fail rate is through the roof. It's insane. I'm going to challenge even the trainer and I think it's a lazy move It's a very lazy move on your part to print something off Hand it to them try and get them to conform to this Without really understanding the individual. Oh, totally 100 and that happens all the time It's trying to fit in Something else that doesn't reflect their current lifestyle And have them completely adopt an entirely new regimen So i'm going to agree with that but i'm also going to defend the trainer right so because I agree with you It is it is a potentially lazy out for a trainer I don't think that I was so much lazy when I was doing is I was more naive To like what I was like I wasn't really asking me the right question like It because like sal was saying earlier like this is this is mathematically if they follow this plan This is what will it'll work get them to the results the fastest So in my head, I really thought that I was giving them the right answer uh But what I've Realized later on in my career and we talk about it at nauseam on this show that Behaviors are so much more important in the the long term of someone holding you know getting their goals and then maintaining it for the rest of Life Then the answer macronutrient wise or the answer weight training wise or the answer cardio wise Like learning to add good behaviors in their life is so much more important Than the exact right answer or the perfect workout or the perfect meal plan I just didn't know that yet as a trainer So I think a lot of trainers don't know better. I think they Yeah, they Maybe it's it seems lazy and maybe some of them do maybe someone's listening right now And you do have the education the knowledge you know better And yet you still choose a lazy route of just writing the same fucking food every day and just say follow this for six months This is most online coaches by the way most online nutrition coaches do this definitely I throw caveat out there to you know, there are some good trainers that will actually like on a you know Session by session basis go over redo it so it reflects more of like they're eating have change it And manipulate so it's actually like an ongoing conversation They have on paper, but it's still so it's a little bit better But at the same time like there's the majority of what I've seen Is like and I was guilty of this too. I'm not putting myself like above that. I started out like that Yeah, so it's I agree with you. It's a naive Approach this is this is the strategy that the you know, jenny craig and in these those old, you know, diet systems This is what they follow what they say is Eat these pre-planned packaged meals and you'll be totally fine The success rate of those things long term is terrible. Well, actually one of the reasons why I think jenny craig is so massive is because They tried to to actually simplify this Right. They the jenny craig is the point system, right? So they they didn't work weight watchers Oh, is it weight watchers jenny craig isn't the point system? I don't know if they are now meals. I think yeah Packages of the meals. Yeah, one point you would buy frozen meals that were you know, here's your They just eat those then it's weight watchers which has had a Tremendous amount of success too is that they tried to answer this by Yeah, you know not giving you exactly specific foods but categorizing all these foods and giving a point system for people to do it You know But this also reminds me too of a key. So what about the the people that do stick to it? Well, I was just going to say I remember earlier. I was trying to think of people who I know who stuck to A meal plan long term and I did think of a couple people that I trained a while ago And you know what's funny? If you are the kind of person that can stick to a perfect meal plan all the time long term You have disordered eating. Yeah, that's that's think about the anxiety around that. No, no That is that is disorder eating too because You're following the structure all the time. You can't go off of it the stress and anxiety surrounding that The body images that drove that that is a disordered Form of eating very very common in my space. Oh, yeah, if you look at me put it this way If you're not a bodybuilder a physique competitor or whatever or getting ready for an event if you're just an everyday person who's super obsessed with your fitness and you go talk to a Psychologist that is an expert in disorder eating and you sit down with them And they say and they start talking to you about your nutrition and you tell them that you eat This is what I have every day for breakfast and you start telling them It's this many ounces this much how many grams or whatever. This is what I for snack this way for london They say do you eat that like that every single day? Yes every single day. I exactly this 100% this food psychologist is gonna say, okay, we got some stuff to work on This is disordered eating not only that sal but there's actually When I think back of the clients that Had some sort of Nutrient deficiency a lot of times it would come from the people that ate like this because oh, they're lacking The body is an amazing thing that I you know A lot of times we do things that we're very unaware of the way we gravitate to certain foods You know like when you when your body is lacking salt, you know A lot of times you'll just you'll gravitate towards a food that has got higher sodium, right? If you your body wants needs fat a lot of times you just kind of gravitate towards that It's you know, it kind of gives you these subtle signals now a lot of people are are naive or don't notice these type of these signals But the body does it when you take somebody who's extremely disciplined And and can follow a meal plan that is purely based around weight loss or building muscle and that's all it's focused on It's not focused on what does the body necessarily need macro or micronutrient wise This is also where I would see a lot of the nutrient deficiencies revealed It was actually more common that I would get somebody who is extremely regimen like this that actually was lacking in nutrients Because they're they're not eating the foods that contain those right and they were on a restricted They're on a calorie deficit, right somebody who over consumes and eats what the fuck they want is rarely ever Deficient in in foods. They're getting an abundance of calories and food multiple sources But what would be common is somebody who was is desperately trying to lose weight in a 900 to a 1500 calorie Restricted diet. So you're already Depriving the body of nutrients and then they're also focusing on a small Variety of foods and they don't realize that they're actually really hurting themselves even more Yeah, and this and sometimes this is where weird food cravings come from So, you know, like what you mentioned Adam was people having these, you know, if your if your body's lacking a particular nutrient oftentimes it will crave flavors or textures that historically have contained That particular nutrient. So if you're really low in vitamin C You may find that you're craving for example the Citrusy sweet flavor now that in modern times may mean you have orange soda or kool-aid or whatever But historically if you found something with that flavor It gave you that whatever in that particular nutrient. There's a disorder if you guys heard of the disorder called pica pica, yeah, they eat a mud or only clay or paint. It's just weird shit I've never even heard of that. Yeah, this is something that it'll sometimes happen in pregnant women and One of the the the causes of it is like an iron deficiency So there they're so deficient in a key nutrient that they're bought. You knew what that was too. Justin. Yeah, I've never even I've never even heard of that Yeah, pica Yeah, pregnancy wise. I we Researched that a bit. Did your mom eat a lot of paint chips? That's what explains my brain explains a lot of things now actually I didn't know about this a lot of white Hey No, but it's but it's it's strange because they'll have a nutrient deficiency And it'll drive and motivate them to eat foods that you know are weird like clay or paint or whatever As if their body is seeking out This particular nutrient and sticking on a regimented Meal plan all the time Definitely opens you up for it also opens you up for food intolerances If you're eating the same food all the time all the time and at any point during that period of time You're inflamed If you're you're constantly throwing chicken at your body You're inflamed for some other reason whether you're having an infection and not getting enough sleep too much stress Maybe you work out too much The odds that your body will develop a food intolerance to chicken are much higher because that's all you're eating Turns into a foreign invader. That's right. It also promotes the Bench restrict. Oh, well, yeah, because you go off the meal plan You're off completely. Yes. Yeah, and that's exactly what I would see with clients They were on the meal plan and when they were off It was it was the it was all rains on they have a great story about that's actually how I met well I didn't meet Courtney through this shoes a client of mine at the time and uh This is where I knew like I liked her even more because uh, just it was a crazy thing, right? So I'm in this space where I'm like, I'm I'm changing lives. Everybody gets a meal plan Everybody's doing my workouts. Everything is regimented, you know to exactly the way I have I have I printed out Spent like hours and hours on her, uh, you know specific meal plan So it was like foods that somewhat was you know Like looked close to what you would eat and I get this text later at night I'm like, oh, so how's you know the um the meal plan going all this and then I get this text back and it's like Fuck the meal plan ha ha ha like all sinister I was like, what? I love her like what? Yeah, exactly. I'm like wow What a rebel, you know, that's amazing. So but yeah, that's awesome Because she's a smart person. I think she just she just knew better. Yeah, and you know It's very very true because it's so structured So regimented so different from real life That the odds that you're going to go off of it are very high and then when you do go off of it You know, this is human psychology, right when you create such a rigid strict Border around things that is unrealistic for you the second you go off Because you've gone on gone off. You've already broken the rules now you're fucking i'm i've already broken the rules Let's just go absolute nuts and go crazy because i'm already off and so you do see it does encourage this All or you know on or off again mentality and this isn't more this is most apparent In people who use and they use meal plans because they should pre-contest But this is most apparent in people who use meal plans the most bodybuilders physique competitors bikini competitors if you were to analyze the year-round dietary habits Of bodybuilders physique competitors bikini competitors people who use meal plans for You know six to twelve weeks pre-contest. Here's what it typically will look like it typically will look like Shitty eating super strict eating shitty eating super strict eating I it is not uncommon to see these people gain. I mean i've seen you know 140 pound Female competitors gained 30 pounds in the weeks after a competition because they had no they didn't understand how to go off A meal plan it was just off and it was completely off And here's the the next big big problem With meal plans because that would happen For people and because as a trainer and I feel really bad for doing this because as a trainer I thought it was all about your dedication your discipline stick to your meal plan When people finally gave up The decision that they made was Healthy eating just isn't for me. Well, this is what I think this is Arguably the number one reason why meal plans suck Is because of what it does to majority. It's already we've already made the case that A majority of people can't stick To to a meal plan and even if they do stick to a meal plan They eventually fall off and what ends up happening is You know somebody who's now in their late 30s 40s or 50s has done this enough times That eventually they get the attitude of fuck it Yeah, I don't want that's healthy eating doesn't work for me. Yeah, if if if being healthy and in shape means for me I have to You know say no to the girls on sunday. I don't get to ever go to my favorite restaurant I've got to be a weirdo and carry around this food all the time either force feeding myself shit I don't want to eat or i'm respecting. Yeah, what they all end up doing is like Yeah, it's not for me. I'd rather be a little bit overweight and the and that to me That is the the most dangerous or the most detrimental part of Why meal plans suck is because of how many people it discourages and I really think that's a lot of A lot of the motivation behind what we do and why we are constantly battling Our peers in our space who we think are consistently speaking to the wrong people They're speaking to the fitness fanatics already and we're trying to reach the people That are discouraged about fitness because of this exact reason because Not because they don't want anything to do with fitness because they've probably tried it Several times and this is one of the things that has probably added to that is Following this really strict diet that they can only do for a certain amount of time and then fail and then putting back Wait on that. It's just not worth it. Their confidence goes way down They internalize it like it's all my fault. Like I I can't do this. I just I'm not a healthy person I can't do it. It's so discouraging like it. I've had so many clients like that It's been four or five times. They've dieted and it's just it just doesn't work for me Oh, yeah, it's like the whole time It's like trying to convince your kid to play a sport, but every single time they play the sport You know you punch them in the face, you know after a certain period of time like that's not me I don't want to play basketball sucks every time I play basketball. I get a black eye I don't want to do it anymore. I'm done. They've made up their mind. This is the association that they have This is the association that people have with eating healthy and it's absolutely true You might even be this you this might be you listening right now or at least you know somebody where you ask them. Hey You know, let's look at you know, maybe changing nutrition Improving your health. I tried that. I tried that so many times just doesn't work for me I don't want to do that and cool. I want to live my life. How many times have you heard that? I just want to live my life. It's gonna be happy and enjoy life. What a crazy Statement for those of us who really understand how to live a healthy life It's such a wrong statement. You want to live and enjoy your life You can't the way that you live and enjoy life the most is by being healthy And these people are because of their experience trying to be healthy by following a meal plan and doing the wrong way To them Living and enjoying life is not doing any of that shit. And that's what they think being healthy is So screw that I'd rather be unhealthy. Well, setting up a meal plan doesn't set you up for real life Not at all not even close great point. It's it's your it's this isn't real life in real life You're going to have birthdays Go to dinner on Friday nights be at a friend's house be being a hurry from point a to point b Missed your meal time. I mean in real life There are so many variables and scenarios that are always ever changing and moving that If you're real if you rely on a A blueprint that you have to stick to all the time. It's inevitable. It's going to fall apart It's inevitable. You're going to fall off of it And what's going to happen when you do that and what happens to most people Is the the on or off wagon thing is like, oh, shit. I fucked up So may as well go all the way out and to go and to take it even a step further Even if you're a super fitness performance fanatic, okay As life goes on your context of life changes Training goals change Nutrient requirements change hormones change. I get older. Sometimes I have more stress. Sometimes I have less stress It's like doing the exact same workout all the time all the time all the time It's going to start real life Changes and so so does your nutrition need to change even if you are the super Motivated anal discipline disorder eating fitness fanatic. You can't possibly follow The same nutrition all the time your goals are going to change Sometimes I can work out and I'm pushing a strength goal. Sometimes I'm pushing an endurance goal Sometimes, you know, I got life is tough and I'm not able to make it to the gym as much Now I'm working out for different reasons other times I'm working out for health of the times I'm working out for muscle Other times I'm working out to get lean things change so much. That's what life is Really the people that success that have the most success at life are not the ones that Have controlled life to the point where it's super hyper predictable every single day. That's impossible The successful people are the ones that adapt. Yeah, and and this is a non adapting form of eating It's actually the least adapting way too rigid It's completely rigid and so what ends up happening is however successful you are in the short term following it at some point Life makes it impossible for you to follow it or life makes whatever you're following Totally ineffective. So no matter which way you cut it It's going to totally fail for you and that leads to the the last thing and you actually hinted at this early on Justin You know, it's like, okay You remember when you when you guys were in school and you you had algebra or whatever And the teacher would give you a problem And you had to show the work you couldn't just give the answer to prove your answer Yeah, now now why is that important? Why did the math teacher want you to show the work? Because it's the process of figuring out how to get to the answer is As important or even more important than just having the answer Well meal plans is the answers without any of the work. It's the here's your calories Here's your macros follow this. Well, how do you get to that point? How do I get to knowing how my body needs to fuel itself? How do I get to the point where I know What I need to eat for whatever reason I don't learn any of that as a person, you know Teach a man to fish It's that whole concept of instead of just providing the fish You have to learn how as a coach to teach your clients How to then apply this going forward forever, you know, this is their life you're dealing with Yeah, this was such a huge turning point for me when I first became a trainer. I'm going to be totally honest Part of my goal was to convince my client that they needed me forever Later on in my career, I realized that if I Treated my client and trained them in a way to where my goal was to get them to a point where they didn't need me anymore That's my goal the the irony of that I became far more successful Yeah, my goal as a trainer later on became How can I get this person to the point where they can do all this forever? And they don't need me anymore It's like the the old martial arts movies where the sensei teaches the student and at some point the sensei says This is your last day coach, you know, the kid is like, what do you mean? He's like I've taught you everything the rest you now can do on your own or whatever That's how I approached it and I became far far more successful And the only way you can do that is by teaching the client How to do the work and if you're not a trainer and you're a person listening right now The answers are not What's going to give you success? Okay. It's how you get to the answers that's going to give you success It's the behaviors that there's now the the unfortunate part and I think we're in the challenging part for trainers is that The client thinks that's not what they want the client a lot of times tells the trainer that's why i'm paying you They expect it. That's why you're the coach. That's why you're the teacher Yeah, I don't I don't want to think about this like that's why i'm i'm paying this top dollar is that I want to I want to do my job every day I want to come to you. I want to come here and I want to be told by you What I need to do exercise wise what I need to eat and that's what i'm paying for So I do understand the challenge as a trainer because I remember I remember the transition that I went through of realizing that I wasn't really helping them by giving this meal plan but then also Realizing that shit. I'm in a service-based business and this is what the person who's paying for me is telling me I need to do that was a that was probably a year-long Transition for me to really figure out How do I how do I figure this? How do I address this? How do I get these people to understand that? I'm actually doing a disservice to them by giving them a meal plan when they're sitting here telling me I don't want to learn this shit. I don't want to do stuff I'm paying you to do that That is where most of my growth as a nutrition coach Really happened in that in that year-long process of trying to figure it out and You know we talk a little bit about show and I do want to get into that In this episode because I know we're talking about why meal plans suck. Yeah, what are the alternatives? Well, yeah, I want I want to talk about okay Well, then what does it look like for one of us coaching a client and and how did we evolve to this place? Because we most certainly didn't start there. We agreed that for many years of our career We probably failed lots of people by just putting them on meal plans But at what point did we piece this together and then what were the things that we started to do? To give people long-term success And the first and probably most the the biggest thing that I I realized and it was it was like so counterintuitive Was instead of telling people that they had to follow this plan I I was going to look For one thing about their their their eating habits that I saw a problem with And try and address that one thing and actually do it In a almost reverse psychology way if we have learned by this time telling people they can't promotes the You know a restrict binge then how do I Get them to do what I want them to do without telling them they can't do something else And that that answer was okay What I'm going to do is look at their diet and instead of seeing McDonald's on there talk about and saying they can't have that Which I know I as a trainer. I ideally probably don't want them eating that I'm not going to focus on that yet. I'm going to look at something else in the diet that they're not getting That they're not getting enough of and it's very easy. It's normally lack of protein for my females or healthy fats It's not getting enough fiber You know, so I look at something like that in the diet and I add to it And I go, okay, or enough greens. That's really common too Very few people are eating enough greens on a daily basis. So I look at something in there That they're they're not getting enough of and instead of saying No, you can't have McDonald's. No, you can't have that ice cream. I say listen. Here's our first nutrition goal This is the first thing that I want you to focus on is all I want you to do is Every day I want you to have a big bowl of vegetables and guess what I give them variety It doesn't be specific doesn't have to be always asparagus or always brussel sprouts or always broccoli I want this much vegetables in a meal every single day and then Get them to start implementing that and then coach around that and teach Why I'm having them do that and then Get them to see how that makes them feel because I know that Just getting them to do it is one thing but getting them to connect The way it's making their body feel is what will make them really stick to it. Well step step one As a trainer and coach is realizing that you have a very long hard Job ahead of you and realizing that part of your job is convincing your client that it's a long hard Arduous road ahead of them. That's actually part of your job because you know adam said for example The person will come up to you say I want this. I want a meal plan. I want to work out I want to lose 30 pounds and I want to do it by this point Okay And again remember nobody said being a coach was an easy job So if you're if you're listening right now or anything, that's all hard and that sucks You probably you probably shouldn't be a coach. It's a long hard job So part of my job was how do I convince this person that that's not what they actually want? So you got to work on that but but little by little it's the small Realistic steps that that person can take whatever that is and it's a slow process and it may be adding one thing It may be taking one little thing away. It may be Focusing on emotional eating. Let's just focus on that for now or maybe Don't be so obsessive at your about your food just for a little bit One small step at a time that then becomes natural becomes a part of their life and then move from there Yeah, one thing I really assessed was and I know that um, you know adam kind of brought this up a bit in terms of like Being able to understand the client even further by having them track and You know and be able to kind of like focus in on their daily habits. Well That was something that I mean I briefly did in the beginning of my training career and was trying to then You know gather that information quickly So then I could then apply it and spit out this meal plan for them that I thought was like a specific but I learned later to You know just start bringing that up in conversation taking them shopping understanding their habits You know them writing it down. They're gonna not going to tell you everything and that's just that's just the reality They're they're gonna tell you their best day They've ever had eating ever and it's just it's just not reality and like even going into their houses And seeing you know all the different types of foods they have and all that It was very enlightening for me So then I usually I started to tell them like it's gonna probably take like a month for me to even understand You know where you're coming from and like what these habits look like and how I can better coach you in terms of like if you have a question of You know like maybe Definitely we can find out what what you're lacking in you know, whether it's five or whether it's vegetables Where it's one of these things that I could help one thing, you know And then you know even for some clients just snacking all the time And not realizing the amount of calories are getting from all these nuts and and it's like one little hack And it's one thing that we hone in on and we've refined and so Uh, it it's just it's just being able to then you know have them become aware And that's that's the game initially is just like what's that awareness? You know look like for them and how do they get there? Yeah train the behavior. Don't train the solution Okay, so I'll give you an example what that means that sounds easy, but you think well, what does that look like? Okay, I'll give you an example Let's say you have a client. This is different from person to person But let's just say you have a client or you yourself or this person That you find yourself grabbing a snack and eating when you're Doing something mindless like watching tv When you're stressed out, you know, maybe you catch yourself halfway through like oh crap Why am I in the box of chips or why am I snacking on this this food right here? And you stop halfway through to try and catch yourself Maybe so if this is you here's a great way to Train the behavior and not the solution because the solution is don't snack anymore Okay, well obviously no shit, but how do I stop the behavior? Here's what you do Put some barriers between you and the in that habit. That's it. So what's a barrier? Here's an easy barrier don't have the stuff in your house. That's a barrier So the stuff isn't my house So now if I really want to snack I got to go and drive to the store Which gives me enough time to think about what I'm going to do So I'm not saying to myself You can't snack all I'm saying to myself is if you want to snack you got to drive to the store to do this But it gives you enough time to become aware now Again, it sounds simple still not easy because believe it or not you're gonna actually you'll find yourself In this situation Ignoring even the barrier sometimes because you don't want to change That behavior, but it's okay. It's uncomfortable and it's it's creating more awareness And that's what we mean by press pressing the behavior rather than solution. Well along those lines That's what makes a really good coach too is that you are looking you're and this is why it's so individualized This is also why we have avoided doing nutrition Right, this is why not because we lack the knowledge or the ability to help somebody out tremendously when it comes to food Is that we feel like Writing meal plans or diets for people online is doing a disservice to these people I know what it takes To help somebody nutritionally out and I know how individualized that is because everybody has got different behaviors Everybody and this takes a lot of self-awareness on the client and the listener right now is like You have to really start to learn to evaluate Where your bad habits are, you know, do you notice that Anytime this is why like people tips that get mocked in the fitness space like don't eat it Don't eat after 8 8 p.m at night We have all the research to show that it doesn't matter what time you eat If you eat the same amount of calories if you eat it at midnight or yeah But what maybe that that advice came from a good place Maybe that advice came from that a lot of people a majority of people realize that when they eat beyond 8 p.m The choices they make are typically bad. Oh, yeah at late night eating behaviors are very different From you know morning eating behavior, right? So this is so that that's pretty fucking good advice You know and what and this is what I hate about our space sometimes is we turn it into a Science debate on well no technically the way the metabolism works and and it oh the the idiots that talk about insulin And oh and it turns into this like argument over who's more right about the science But what the where the real advice may have came from from the very beginning is that behaviorally speaking Very few people make a decision at 10 o'clock at night to get off the couch from watching tv or climb out of bed Go down and they make themselves a bowl of brussel sprouts Maybe that's why that advice came out You know not because what they do is they go downstairs and they grab a fucking ice cream sandwich Or they they grab a handful of nuts and throw it in their mouth And instead of us fitness people arguing over the science behind how the metabolism works Maybe we should speak more to the behaviors of what most people are and that's pretty fucking solid advice And the bottom line the absolute bottom line is that meal plans take zero of that any of that into account Right the meal plan literally is the answers with zero of the work It is none of the behavior training And again in our experience you either completely fail by by not following it or if you do follow it super strictly You also fail because of disorder. It's the liposuction of fat loss And with that go to mind pump free.com and download all of our guides and books They're all totally free. You can also find the three of us on instagram You can find justin at mind pump justin you can find me at mind pump sal and adam at mind pump adam