 Originally we meet you in a team and originally I set up this for our international teachers because first of all because we from the 109 eating jobs we are going to have the global issues especially you and SDGs integrated into our freshman English courses and I know that you have done a lot to do with the you and Taiwan can help and our international students can help and actually we start to book the to be with this country Tom and in March but at that time when we started there's no we don't we didn't know about the pandemic okay and then so I think we should I should have our foreign teachers to visit you all those whatever you have done it's hard for me to tell them okay and so I would like them to yes yes I'm external we have yeah one from Philippine and he's a Taiwanese from Canada so we consider foreign teachers and and here now we have several let me introduce them to you and then we have the chairperson director of the global foreign language education okay long-term and this one is director oh yes and originally our team really really some he said it makes you right right and but now he's somewhere in and probably he couldn't make it but I said be sure to come here to make a conclusion yeah so maybe right right right maybe it would make it quite long right and then we have a representative of a civil servant from our program we have every summer this is the sevens years we we design an intensive English program for the civil servants in Nantou civil servants development institute right and this is representative the excellent one right right so so that's we can here we have several topics issues to go first of all since we have introduced our program and I know the bilingual nation policies our nation will like to have strict especially the civil servants to be able to communicate in English yes but from the educational part we know the government and I am only going to have to train more bilingual teachers for those bilingual programs subject forces but how about the the general people in the general people especially the civil servants are people how will I I'm not sure the vision it just said that they want to be able to communicate in English but one question is most of the time they deal with local stuff local people and the general one hand for him is the high-ranking official program the institute told me that they are going to have online forces our opinion but I don't have any good ideas so I would like to ask you how would we design for the civil servants the program was successful so it continued for seven years but each summer only 20 about 24 high-ranking officer they can come and they stay for one month intensive program and I'm sure everyone is was so satisfied with this but can benefits not so many in general so can you tell us what are you trying to do are you trying to reach more I think the institute wants to do so so I need to have that kind of am I maybe on my horses right right and what's the reason for the civil servants the officials to have a certain kind of ability they need to take the English proficiency level like a toy car five hundred fifty be one level that will come like the strain style but the main vision is just that people who do not have you know Mandarin or any one of our national languages there's plenty of them now including a Taiwanese sign language indigenous languages and so on and if you're a native in any of these languages at least there should be a English as a default for you to work with and and that is a little bit difficult to ask all the government officials when they do day-to-day work to speak English if they do not have English students right if they don't interact with people speaking English if they only interact with something there in the other region of course they are much more amicable to America if they're in a nice or out of one or Sakiraya then they're so back what we were saying violent what we want whatever the dominant local English is plus English so it's not like Mandarin plus English right because as a civil servant if you are in a region in the district when there's a over half of the population speaking any of those non-mandering national languages now you would be required to take the proficiency certificate in that particular language or things like that right so that's the second and so I think what we're doing now is to make sure that at least I'm digital where there's a website and things like that we at least have a English version for the people who do not have their national languages as native languages and in the day-to-day business of the public sector we look systemically at the places where the main stakeholders are like people with resident certificates foreign travelers people on either a visit visa or all the way to the current and so if these visa holders are the main stakeholders or one of the main stakeholders of any particular regulation then that regulation have to be announced in draft stage for the stakeholders to be marvelous in English also so this is a very simple idea of nothing about us without us so like people who are affected need to have their voices heard and if we only make the announcements of the deliberations the regulator trust and so on in Chinese characters then even if they might be impacted they are the last ones to know and that's simply not fair and so the for example the joining platform the public participation platform whose participator budget and things like that nowadays there's a regulatory pre-announcement and you can see that we're not announcing in both languages in kanji and English whatever it is something that concerns the you know foreign people when it comes to the main stakeholders so so that's the main dish and so we're not forcing everybody to get certificates because we do something they do not practice and they're everyday work that's really not very helpful but but if we can improve the language environment so that more people do not have the national which is a native language are willing to consider themselves to be also companies that's that's a big one and that to that end we're also offering like dual citizenship to like there was a associate professor in her apology recently got you know this dual citizenship get a national ID quite an all-den with every announcing this original passport and that used to be only reserved to you know priests and nuns that have served for years you're shooting you walk would have made extraordinary contribution to our country but now if you're a professional that's enough and so that's it that's a very different direction and as compared to the policy right used to be gathered the most of the people would say oh the foreign towns are fine but they're not part of our citizenry but I think we've been expanding our citizenry to be much more transcultural so that's the vision and the English capability is one of the goals along the way but it's not the ultimate goal the ultimate goal is to make this a more transco children so for those who needs this kind of certificate all the civil servants so the government will have a plan for how to help them support them to learn to get the efficiency that's right that's right and that's also part of the work that we're having opposed in an HR department within the administration as well as the HR department as its own government branch the examination and so the administration was on kind of different schedules and so it took literally yes to do simple things for example the capability of asking for a leave of absence counted by our instead of buying the day or half day and that took like more than a year for the examination to pass but if you're a employment period you know that this kind of flexible gas is very important to improve the work of the public service a similar one is the teleworking project which is more important during the COVID force but even after COVID we would expect people who want to work remotely to take care of their family to go back to their non-typing you know origins I just came back from Taichung could do more of their work from Taichung or from any of the counties and cities and that would also be HR department and so right now we're re-establishing the communication between the examination and the new examination and the administration because now we're close out four year terms and so I expect that this would be much more smooth about this point on the way. All we know is about educational parts that the teachers training will recruit and start to cultivate and train bilingual teachers for elementary school especially for those non-English subjects right and so but it seems we know about the 2030 bilingual nation but probably we are in the university so we don't know that how is the nation Taiwan going to become a bilingual country right but lots of people will doubt it and in general what kind of model is it like the Hong Kong style is it's impossible to become like Canada's bilingual education or like language with definitions yeah how what level Taiwan is going to achieve that might run yeah I think the main idea here is not to pass examinations and there was many you know there were many different strategies that we can consider here but passing examinations is not it's not one this is more about to make the nation much more friendly as I mentioned to people who do not have Mandarin or any of the national languages speakers and also the idea is to have a culture of English learning and that was with the life-long learning idea because our K-12 curriculum which just got to be architected last year right the K-12 curriculum is now focused on what we call the competence education and competence education focuses on what stability to learn throughout once the years it's not just you know you finish K-12 you have to go to university or college and then you choose a way enter the society and stop learning that was that over the linear point of view but yeah but nowadays the point is that the university the college and so on is always there whenever needed so once we finish K-12 you don't have to go to the college or university you can just the main hurdle against that that was a president signing with the platform four years ago we already got the first grade induction and we can let the students every university so it's not that you know the more times it is better business for you because instead of the student only in building in university once yeah we're looking at a zigzag where finish the high schools and maybe work or become an entrepreneur or whatever for a few years and then they decided what to learn international management or things like that and then they enlist the help from the local school and then the universities would be then working with people who are much more motivated than in the 19 years and so that will cultivate people's proficiency because they're more at needs rather than their parents need to get the university right and then after they finish maybe a two-year course or four-year course they maybe do this alongside their work and once they get promoted or do a slashing do another job or whatever they will remember their alumni community and then go back to the college again for another degree and therefore another degree so the more times I expect people to engage in university more frequently throughout last life which is well over 80 years now in late expectancy so so I think it's more business to you yeah yeah and so but the point of allowing the 18 years those who choose their own life courses their own career really is quite a disruptive one for the Taiwanese culture of get a university degree no matter what right and it's true that mr. application in the past few years when they try to convince this in your high schoolers to you know go to the world really and then start learning on their own they faced the most difficulty with the parents attitude because it's really may sign up for that program only to say I know I have to drop from that and when we asked they would say oh my parents don't want me to to go to work they do we think that I'm a kid worker or something or a big economy worker and so which is seen as kind of negative attitude so they have decided to fix the problem from the route which is to make 18 years of adults and so they don't have to listen to your parents it used to be that you have to be 20 years old to enter a contract yeah and then next year we're looking to to change that my daughter is getting okay so I'm kind of convinced you know I want them to finish it like other right yeah one of them says mommy if that's not my passion but you don't go for that that's right let me let me try what I like to do but you won't let me I always believe that you know certificate of the law give you more stability right that certainly used to be they used to be true that is a junior high school job I've heard it used to be true learning now so may I ask what is your vision if the university could be open more public yeah but now what we recruit students is from the application or from the exam and in your picture what in the future how we invite more people or students that we are more motivated to come to the university but I think just and when we're looking at the university social responsibility the USR the students who do work in the USR programs often see it as kind of a capstone project right they enlist all sorts of different efficiencies in order to solve a local social or environmental or economic problem right so they enjoy working for the social impact and the environmental impact alongside of course the career economic incentives and so that's called a triple bottom line and I think especially around the undergrad age a social environment so bottom line is easier to achieve actually then you know random incubators that expect them to turn off it's because it's it's up it takes on average like three or four pivots or failures in order to find a working business model when you're an entrepreneur so if you're a undergrad and I include that in that one you could like people in their 40s and 50s who go back to the college you're still under wraps right so and when you're an undergrad you're allowed to fail because that's part of the learning process and so I think failure would mean less if you say that the failure is just a scientific exploration if we document and we publish and we inform other people that this way doesn't work like Thomas Addison said you know I did not fail I find this material then then it encourages more experimentation and it encourages like failing in the open which is always informative to the community around them and so I would say that this triple bottom line idea is definitely the key to get people into this problem-based learning mindset because it can strain the problem into a artificial problem of just one motherline a very linear one like a competitive one then I don't think that would get people's interest when they become like long-distance when they're like long-distance they're much more willing to work with people across different disciplines it fulfills a conflict for all the different disciplines involved and so like regional placemaking on traction is one of the prime examples of the USRs in the local impact I think it's quite interesting but I'm talking about the fundamental methods how you improve students for those who want to return to the university it's like at the moment we only recruit by the exam or the vacations and are they any new proposal from the government there I think what we're saying is that you can look at your portfolios or should you be the idea of a portfolio based but it's also based on the high school's portfolio well it's true that what we're saying is that a high school you need to make a portfolio in a certain format but we're not saying that only high schools can do that but what is the system to evaluate for us? well just like any curator or any HR department there are going to be some private institutes that are guaranteed by the government they will be able to prove this portfolio is valid yeah that's one part of it just like the certificate process it could be an institution issue it could be peer-based there are so many ways of going about this and I think this is all up to the professors if the professors want to assemble a team to help the local community fix a local economic environment or social problem but they know that they're going to need for example designers and topologists they're going to need people of different backgrounds and so on so it's much easier to look at it in a way that when a team is being formed what other roles are missing in the team that is to say to make the people who are actually already doing the work it could be a community placement institution it could be a local community college it could be the local associations and so on they all have their own HR expertise and so you can ask them to review the applications that want to go into university because you now serve as a partner for their issues to be titled as part of the problem-based law and set and so you essentially it's not process peer so it's your review process with the institutions that are going to be part of your stakeholders in your problem-based learning course yes and another question for you is that in charge for bilingual education in school my basic job right now is to call the pre-service teacher to become bilingual teachers and I find it very challenging because it's difficult to find funding from my program to support the curriculum that I want to design and I know this is far more than a different division and this instead doesn't have a very well communication between each other because one division is for information and the other is for the pre-service teacher's training but both of them actually propose to have this digital education for learning but for the division for the teacher's training things doesn't know the other division is actually doing a very similar program they actually give funding for those who in the in the countryside of the minority students to have this we call digital partner and then the university students will help those primary students yes yes but it saves the division for the teacher's training doesn't know anything about it and I because I wish that I could have a digital platform to include those kind of website tutoring for the because we are selling and these are close to the harbor in the south yeah and some students they probably hardly have the resources for learning English so I think a digital partnership this is tuition but it's quite important especially for our area and I think my problem is that I have very limited support from the MLE and I don't know how to start with this platform which I really think will be helpful for our community that's right usually the way to go about this is not to integrate the divisions because what they exist for a reason but rather to ask them to publish more usually we ask the people involved in different teams to publish their materials it could be as easy as this conversation this conversation is going to be posted on YouTube under a creative common license which is the introduction 4.0 which means roughly that if you include the hyperlink to the source you can reuse this material in another divisions program and when all the different sites are accumulating such materials for one to use then you have the social objects to talk about like we get YouTube comments all the time from like can you add chapter titles can you make the reporting better? yes, you can there's too much reverberation in the room so it gets people more aware of what other people are doing if they can include those materials in their own curriculum knowing that they do not have to negotiate for patent or for royalty or things like that so the first step is always to publish instead of to the parish and we have a lot of publishable materials just as a normal course of our conversations during the conversation of our policymaking for example when we're even in the planning sessions if you just record a transcript and publish it people are going to find it if they find keywords and things like that so my main suggestion would just be to publish as much as you can and with a goal of getting your materials included even just a few of them into other divisions and other schools materials and work for example not just with the university system but with the life and education system community colleges and so on as well as the K-12 system and so once you have visibility there it's easier to kind of play this outside game that says the other divisions cannot ignore your existence because your material now powers these stakeholders outside the university and therefore are too important to fail and one more according to the because of the bilingual education from primary school to secondary school and I think maybe three years ago when was it MOE started to ask the teacher training center to are they waiting to apply for the whole English teaching program teaching which English is done yeah English is the medium of instruction that kind of and the nine university are included in so-called they are training bilingual teacher or English teacher no no no we're talking about Clio right Clio part Clio part yeah Clio part and our director she would like to we would like to apply that program that seems to start for the nine universities but we are really we are probably one should be one of the could they just open for us we missed the information at that time we were not the director I see that's not that but I think it's important if you wish to have more bilingual teachers and then you need to have the printer to train those who are interested in bilingual education okay so what you're saying is that MOE no longer makes grants to likely they close it when 108 right right right well in Taitung already there's Taitung University of Education that we are in Saru and we are private school and we have a lot of students and we think we can contribute to this part so maybe one more University would like to do that and yeah okay and the next question so are you saying that the Gao Jiang's higher education department is not in Clio anymore because there's a K-12 administration is still funding a lot of Clio activities Guo Jiao Shu Guo Jiao Shu a lot of things right right so it's just one division within the MOE stuff it's not the entire MOE because I can see just 12 days ago that Guo Jiao Shu you know Clio's empowerment workshop is doing going on so I think it's sponsored by the Zhongzheng University the particular university has also been sponsored by the Zhongzheng University I see so maybe they just changed contractors or something I don't think it's a university that we're moving away from Clio because otherwise this Clio workshop that's why I suggest that maybe the government should have more like the for example communication because they don't really know each other what they are doing so you're okay with Clio yeah we are just we want to have Clio in our fresh well starting from the new commission semester all of our freshman English will integrated the SDGs into our English content not just for the language but the content so the regional SDGs will be set up for the media content and since we just changed the EMI programs contacted by British Council and at the higher education level now lots of funding universities want to have the teachers using English as the medium of instruction but some of them what will kind of bilingual situation that the university nation or by 2030 that do you wish to have all in English university like those in in the Netherlands if they wish to if they wish to I mean is a possibility but it's not saying that we are going to be English families because for one of the indigenous languages we will also assert their possibility of teaching the content integrated with their indigenous languages so I think that's the mean part like I just came back from from in Dao and their model you man of course is all English so it's a pretty good example of company integration because they also talk about SDGs and they have this international department that designs this kind of exchange it kind of trickles out to their senior high and to their skilled senior high and eventually I'm sure to the junior high as well and so if they choose to do so it used to be that there's a lot of regulations and so on that are kind of mentoring centric to design such a curriculum especially on the younger ages but now the idea of medical nation is that if a school decides that that's the feature of the school then we should do everything we do to support them instead of discourage them but we're not saying that everybody should switch to teach content in English and that's not what we're saying but my question is it seems that we didn't see the support from the government it's the university like our university is a private one so the school wants us to do it and then the teachers from the bottom will say reject the idea but if there is I think still I feel that by nation by medical nation policy it's not so strong in general sure we just got started so there are lots of things to implement and for the higher education the part nowadays we know clear for the teacher but since higher education is just from the university there's a lot of acts in the legal part to relax the primary and junior high school act the senior high school education act private school law related regulations and so on that are too mentoring centric or too mentoring specific because in the administration we do our administration by law and hopefully of law because we need to be lawful so a lot of those laws and regulations need to change regulations for elementary and junior high school normal class the grouping procedure group learning and things like that that all need to have the capability of including English as a first class language because it's not one of the national language of a you know extent as a group or however you call it a traditional culture in Taiwan as our national languages are maybe you can argue Dutch is the English probably not and so that need to happen before we can do the formal legalization of for example the caretaking activities in the preschool in kindergarten in the curriculum and so on and once that happens then you have then in the primary education people who think in English as I do I think in English and so then after that six years down the road you will then have people in the junior high schools thinking in English as a one so that's why it takes 10 years because we start realizing there are lots of regulations from the kindergarten level and it takes time for them to grow where we're not accelerating their growth we're just making sure that the students can work with a regulatory environment that doesn't require a school to become a experimental school in order to do formal legalization at the moment experimental schools like in science parks and things like that of course they are already like full immersion but it used to be that's only because they can sort of ignore the curriculum taking advantage of the experimental school act but it's not thinkable for all schools to become experimental because then what's the meaning of the experimental anyway experimental school act only up to 10% of students can enroll in experimental schools and so the point is that to take not really best practices from those experimental schools and then ratify it in the ordinary the regular K-12 curriculum so that they can much more easily develop the group instruction based on aptitude and English proficiency so that's why I think some and that's why it doesn't all the way start from the college level because the people who are studying under this relaxed regulation are now maybe just seven years old or eight years old so it takes ten years for them to be your students yeah but the students in the university will become like the roles generation without the learning of education they can re-enroll in undergrad yeah I think in a circle in the exact way yeah I mean everybody can become undergrad even if you're a professor in physics you can re-enroll as an undergrad in sociology and there's nothing wrong so now the teachers must prepare those coming young generation will think from English so we have to hurry and then the whole university knows about that well you have roughly eight years yeah yeah it is okay let's come back to the original SDGs and now since everyone knows Taiwan can help things about because of the pandemic before I end I know I think my question is in terms of SDGs what have been done in Taiwan particularly that our foreign teachers we teach English we bring the international perspective to our English classes to our students but sometimes I think our students need to have some kind of encouragement that we have done a lot and we know it so Fujifilm I think from one interview you was one in an interview program with you mentioned about we help social innovation we help New Zealand in some way about water can you specifically tell us about the story of course but it's online you search for water saviour you all it's called water saviour so it's an annual they save water so they're water saviours it's an annual event that we run it's called a presidential and every year we work with the social innovators who may come from any sector in order to society using the 17 SDGs and they can propose whatever idea that they want using whichever data from whichever ministry and then we make sure that people learn about their ideas vote on it's using a new form of voting or quadratic voting or QV to make sure that we find the teams that are most balanced in terms of their environmental social and business impact and so the Taiwan Water Corporation was I think it was a cross-sectoral team from the corporation itself from the triple I that's the information industry institute from the national joint university from the MIS department of our cabinet and I'm missing a few HTC many people they formed a team that looked at the water pipes in Taiwan and detect the leakage before the people do and because it used to be that they have to listen to the water pipes in order to detect a leak with this type status code like equipment but on average this is I think the G-Long region in the G-Long region it took on average two months for a leak to happen for it to be listened to and so there's a lot of water down the drain wasted and so they built this chat box that analyzes the water pressure, the water flow and so on a lot of different measurements and tell these senior fixers like where are the points near them that are more likely to have leaks so they can extend their time on the creative part of their job which is to fix the leaks instead of on the boring part of their job which is listening to pipes that are not leaking and so that it was very successful and they won the team won the presidential trophy and each team need to choose a specific SDG target in order to present their work to an international audience not unlike how nowadays social reform must also choose specific SDG targets as a way to communicate to international partners so in this case that would be target 6.4 which is to increase water use efficiency and ensure fresh water supplies that's one of the concrete SDG targets and their trophy is the shape of Taiwan with a micro projector underneath and the trophy carries well no money in price but if you turn on the micro projector it projects after sign when handing you the trophy so the trophy describes itself and if you need extra budget or if you need the law changed in your favor or whatever you just talked to the minister and then you project the president and the minister does what you want to do and because the award is basically president promising five teams every year whatever they did in past three months will have public policy in the next 12 months so that's presidential executive power as a half of the world and so the telephoto cooperation cuts the funding and personnel they need to improve the system not only in Taiwan but in the entirety of Taiwan and lightning about DOFNAC which is an accelerator in Zealand discovered because we share this SDG symbolized SDG 6.4 they were just shining for our teams that could solve the problem for them they did not have that problem because New Zealand had plenty of fresh water because of climate change they are now increasingly facing water shortage and so the Wellington Water Company asked my in-line with New Zealand who can partner with them in the lightning lab of taxiing and we know this is how it is going to happen and we know this team and so they invited telephoto cooperation people to come over to Wellington to produce a kind of lean start up like an accelerator camp and so they work with their New Zealand's local government data, non-government data and so on into what we call a data collaborative which is by itself another SDG goal and in 2017-18 we considered reliability of available data so instead of a kind of off-the-shelf solution that the Water Cooperation sells to Wellington they actually send the algorithm designers to build their own models of the leakage prediction for the Wellington Water Cooperation and this shows me a lot of trust because if you do not trust another jurisdiction if you do not trust another economy you would not hand your water flow and pressure data out that's very sensitive utility information to the algorithm that they help design but because this is a common issue faced by both sides like we're not in this for profit we're in this so that our citizens don't have to suffer and so the trust is easier to build between the two Water Corporations as opposed to a traditional procurement or contract and so on so they eventually deliver the solutions together and so if you just check out the presidential platform website and every year there are a lot of the top teams and each one would correspond to one specific system and then you can just tell the team's story and for example you're in a decision-making lab you're probably past our drinking fountain downstairs and you probably see this large blueish that says Foncha and what it's trying to do is that it encourages people to explore culturally the local offerings and really a social network rating whether the water teams meet there or the water teams meet there in the different places and if you collect those different points like Pokemon Go you can also enjoy in a locally culturally significant shops and so on the local drinks and so it's a way to actually reduce plastic water use but it doesn't quite say that it says that it's a fun game that they might be able to play because there's a theory of change is that if you are used to get bottles, plastic bottles because it's convenient there's no way that you can convince them out of it if you give them a water bottle that's reusable for free they would just use it to roast flowers or something but they will still get fresh plastic bottles and even when Taiwan recycles 95% of the plastic bottles the base number is very large so the 5% is still a lot so their social impact goal is to reduce 1% of that plastic bottle but they do so through a essentially a body or she a game that's played on a serious scale and so they want the presentation highly unlikely and so now I have to say a couple of silly things that the Environmental Protection Authority post this REPA they will post silly pictures like this this is a Zhong Yang Shi the latest one the latest one and because it used to be just a social sector movement but because of presidential hack they were able to work directly with public servants from the so the EPA now basically feels that it's well within their yearly goal because if they say no they will just turn on the trophy and they will see the president show to help encourage the team so now it's actually part of their policy so we just have a fresh batch of 5 winners from presidential hack so feel free to check the website and check their stories so you mean that for international of Malaysia through the presidential hack we also had international track so the last year the international track winners were Honduras and Malaysia if I'm not mistaken and this year is still going on but there's a lot of entries also from our kind of diplomatic arm of international development and I think it's really good because now a board of wave through the work also understand that crowdfunding and so on are important not because of the money but rather because of the public participation so you now see doing public crowdfunding it used to be that they only take funding from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs from MOFA but if you now search for a board of wave you will probably see there is a crowdfunding campaign which is called Taiwan Gajibak Taiwan Ting Zhao which is a Ting Zhao it's a mask campaign that sends the masks to the SWATINI skill development program so that instead of having to cancel the skill development program we would just send them such previews so that they can resume this skill development even amidst the COVID pandemic and so it's important for us to share this crowdfunding campaign so not only I recorded a message and Minister Chen Shuzong recorded a message we also enlisted our social media friends and so on and that's how we make SWATINI I guess relevant to the Taiwanese people and also make Taiwanese people relevant to the people in SWATINI through digital diplomatic actions like this so that's also something that we can say it's SDG related I just wonder what kind of platform I didn't understand about the hack zone what do they do now I understand to figure out solutions that solve local problems international application or encourage teams across the world to solve their problems and then share their vision with us shouldn't we have the kind of events for the university students many university students participate in the research in hack zone as I mentioned the water savior team is National Genetic University yeah I think a lot of students we had this as a way to essentially spend 3 months in a kind of like internship but it was something that is immediately impactful instead of just as an exercise okay now I thought about the we were talking about the SWATINI the southbound policy we got friends and to support the students from Philippines and Vienna to come to Taiwan to study and we want to show them how we do the pandemic and how freedom we have however because of this pandemic it's quite hard to get students from the police quarantine holding the students back we thought about why not doing online there would that be possible the more students there will be yeah sure because then you get to connect because when you're online the main thing is the time zone if the time zone is too much it will be very painful but if for Taiwan and the Philippines that would be a problem so what would be the main concern if we have this online social awareness environmental protection environmental protection is good I was thinking about cultural immersion so they get to know more about Taiwan because everybody thinks in the world that there's no Taiwan as country there's only China so I guess Taiwan has really become popular because of this COVID-19 I think we have to modify that and I'm thinking that because of COVID-19 Taiwan become a very safe and freedom country and is there any way that we we have a lot of international students it seems like shrinking because of the pandemic but I think because of the pandemic Taiwan should be the first choice for international students is there a way the government to do is to recruit them to come to Taiwan to study for sure there's a few things going on right because if it's only the student that travels but not their families and so on then the 14-day quarantine is a problem but we're not going to relax them because the reason why Taiwan is so safe is because of the 14-day quarantine right and so I really think digital work is better the digital route is what I would go because for example the social innovation submit that we have this year is entirely online and then we time the submit to coincide with the social enterprise war reform which was going to take place in the left-go shop but nowadays we don't have to physically travel to the west ocean back and we're traveling there probably not a big problem going back has been two weeks in quarantine and so we just managed to merge the two curriculums together so that's the two events managed to dodge each other in terms of time and we say that if you get a ticket here then you automatically get a ticket for the SWF and then the other way around too and so we swap the tickets like 1000 tickets both ways and so just enrolling one and then because people have different working schedules and so we say oh by the way we'll keep the video you know for one year so you can re-engage and organize study groups or whatever based on that interactive content and that's pretty successful and also there's also a use-by-sum that argument I think the user experience and then the idea is there's 24 hours of content and he invited a person from each different time zone to host a session there to their nearby and so that people in Africa or people in different parts of Europe do not feel that each part is less privileged or more privileged they can all share their local solutions and local learnings and of course nobody can attend all of it but that's fine because it's a rolling content that really truly views that the globe is in solidarity with the common COVID challenge there so I think Taiwan is really good to contribute both as a host because we have really good internet connection everywhere and also as a participant because we do have ways to connect to all the different 17 SDGs as compared to some nearby jurisdictions who mostly specialize in one or two of the SDG contributions we can honestly say for all seven things we have contributions to make so nowadays I wake up early to have video calls with people in the North and South America and I work until the evening to have calls with Africa and Europe and that really is this kind of cross time zone working environment that we're looking for and so with some planning I think this is much preferred as opposed to flying people and falls which not only have quarantine issues but also have carbon emissions which is good you have to plant a lot of trees to offset right so no traveling it's better that's the beauty of technology that's right everyone can reach out yeah another question about yourself studying in English I know your first foreign language is German and then when to you start to learn English and then how do you have any strategy to tell us just play this game called magic the gathering games yeah it's a trading card game called magic the gathering yeah it's a collectible card game is it because you have the involvement to use the language yeah it's a chattering so I just call internet relay chat or IRC and then chat with people that's part of the game yeah I think just find something that people feel interested in and then the immersive environment and then the vocabulary even though later on I would learn that magic the gathering cards are using very difficult vocabulary like just for a simple what you call counter spell it's a part of the game we get to learn about words like language and things like that but for me these are my native vocabulary because these are the first English words that I say and so then I would think it's as difficult because each of them is a card yeah well how do you do that and then as a question it all starts sure sure there will be plenty of time actually I'm from environmental protection oh yeah you're part of the Fengcai team now yes the ABE is certainly in our group I'm from the development of US management so we are working on reducing the the bottle of plastic for a long time so I actually have a question about STGS sure sure we've been working on Taiwan STGS since December so the Sustainable Development Council really set many requirements to make sure that every ministry that achieves according to the schedule and the Voluntary National Review yes the truth is that actually in the 17 STGS there are many goals that are actually repeated yes there is one that are forgotten like 16 and there was extra like the 18s where they come from yeah is that true it's true because we're not a UN member we get to do whatever so I'm just wondering because we have to fill many of our data for our goal every year because we got our goals in 2020 and 2030 the public sector yes so because of the repeated items I think we can just digitalize something that we can just fill it online because every time we have to fill something it's really word documents and all that if we can just fill one for example just fill going over 6 0.3, 0.1 for that and maybe the other one which is repeated you can just show of course I think they do that for the justice reform tracking system I think that's fair too so is there any claim that we can build a system I haven't used the tracking system you just mentioned is there a website address because I'm in charge of social innovation which is meeting the SDGs from social entrepreneurship which is the cross-section between the business sector and the social sector and so we also use SDGs but the tracking is done in for example the GRI reports of the companies or the BE labs can be scorecards for smaller enterprises sector maybe SRS assessment and things like that so there are also methodologies to track their own promises but these are different from what the government system uses and so I think the Ministry of Finance just said that in the few years large public listed companies have to orient all towards SDG so it's no longer optional or good to have but they have to report by SDG and so there is a startup here called Sistine Hub I think, yeah if you search for Sistine Hub, Taiwan or something then you may find it but yeah I'm also trying to find it yeah maybe I but it's the same I'll find it so the point is that the reporting from the commercial sector takes care of the kind of no double reporting and so on issues as we do but for the EPA I'm not sure that we're contracting the same contractors and I'm not sure how we're aligning the voluntary local reviews either because the Taoyuan, Taipei and New Taipei City have each contracted their own kind of systemic reports for their voluntary local reviews but last I checked these are not synchronized with the doctrine national review in our national side so it may be that the three municipalities are more technologically advanced than we are which is usually the case anyway so I think that's definitely something that we can look into but I don't have the URL to that system so maybe you can send me that maybe you can maybe you can that's right I'm happy to help for me here for my students they work for business administration department there so for this it's kind of difficult for students to have a long term it's just for eight courses only for one semester and it's a pretty short time to focus on one thing I want to just mention there it's wonderful for this short time it's a three month internship is that what you mentioned for SDG and then is there any way that your SDG has kind of a lot of goals there is there any opportunity for students to kind of a short term focus to get involved how short is that? very short what is that? no, it's not great okay but just to your point the thing I was looking at was Yongshun Jukoo or Saztei Hub I type an extra N and then I couldn't find it but it's easier to remember it's Saztei Hub Saztei Hub so what they're doing is they use AI to analyze all the publicly filed data of the sustainable reports from the organizations so that you can both kind of predict what is more important when you're looking for CSR opportunities if you are an MPO working on SDG kind of brands from the large CSR companies or if you are one of those you can also use their AI to generate SDG reports yeah, I think that's a very, very worthy idea because basically it saves a lot of chores it makes sure that you only focus on the metrics and then it's automatically built a GRI standard compliance report for you and I think that's a really good vendor to look to so back to the student engagement well, maybe because I just came back from the McDowell Model United Nations I happen to think Model UN is a pretty good idea just put people into this kind of board game ish-like position where they have to tackle climate change, disinformation nuclear portfolio generation whatever things that are structurally affecting the globe and the younger the students are the more they understand there at the business end what we're not going to see most of the climate change effects they are so there will be an urgency in them to participate and so there's many board games here actually the majority of which focus on SDGs that could be the beginning of the curriculum one month or two months internship-ish thing that you solve a kind of local issue that's corresponding to the SDGs there's a Japanese game it's just called 23rd SDG game it's introduced by the Chow Bang we did that and there's actually many more so I think if you look at the SI.Taiwan or the Chow He Chow Xin Ping you will see plenty of people offering this kind of courses and this kind of internship opportunities like the third one here the Haoxu Chow He Qi also develops their own board game around SDGs and has been used in K-12 curriculums as well I think most board games we play here are SDGs there was I think only the Kaohsiung Da the bombardment of Kaoh that's not really related to SDGs that we also play here everything else we play here is SDGs actually I enjoyed the SDGs in our program because it's really inspiring to be playing that game very much so the kind of game you play in your city you have the same game like Osu! Town in my phone point that I I say it there was a picture of Osu! Town sitting in the back and Jackie Town was contacting the board game because of the world and everything I really enjoyed that exactly the game just get more people advocating this game and playing the game together that goes a long way kind of good life goals as part of playing this game but by good life goals I really mean good life goals there's a kind of re-iteration of the sustainability of life goals in terms of what each individual can do in their daily lives it's much more cute it's a cute version of the SDGs and we all know that cuteness is the most the raining the cultural mainstream like bubble tea the cutesy part is taken care of by I think CSR1 the translation of the life goals into Mandarin and Chinese so that's also something that you can consider Sharon Minister, can I ask about our ocean policy I love swimming especially swimming in the sea I grew up in Canada I lived here for 10 years I understand the western perspective when the westerners sees the beach they think the first thing that comes to mind is fun it's a beautiful place for relaxation and swimming but the mentality is blind so in Taiwan I remember when you were in Sweden last year you were able to open up this and now we're in the open up sea including the openness part the transparency part the convenience part the education part as well as the risk part I think we need to promote more of the ocean oceanic culture but people always say we do have the same culture yeah I understand also because of our background we used to be under martial law so it's difficult to access the ocean you want to go out, you need to permit at the coast of Taiwan so it's not easy for average Taiwanese citizens to go into the sea and enjoy the ocean I know so how we do anything to promote trying to change this culture to promote Taiwan's beaches and coastline to attract more tourism if we have good beaches and also at the same time to clean up our beaches that's also going to be a thing maybe we can connect all the dots encourage more people to get closer to the beach, clean up our beaches and then we can therefore enjoy the beach definitely yeah, that's going to be you know the Shanghai Shenzhen foreign I'm going to participate in that form alongside our secretary general of the administration I think next Friday and where we will talk about the online consultation that involves a huge number of ministries that can plan together to open up the ocean policy, the tool that we use is basically takes care of people's ideas and it could be uploaded or downloaded by other people so we not only understand what is the most controversial which is about the kinds of fish that are restricted for amateur fishing as it's work but actually we have a lot of consensus items that everybody agrees no matter whether they're just people who enjoy the CEO or people who enjoy catching fish from the sea and so we were going to work on the consensus items first and that's going to be next Friday and after that I think there will be a white paper thing published that informs the local municipal and county governments in order to integrate them together so that people can take care of the ocean together instead of relying coastal guards which both is a work duty nowadays and also if people do not know how to take care of the ocean they're just like the mountains there are only people with I don't know financial or criminal incentives do and that's not really good for me instead is just to make sure that people visit however they want understanding of course the inherent risk and these injures and so on that they have to fulfill but then everybody can take care of this together just as we open up the mountains restricting only the cars but not people anymore so initially there was of course people who do not take care of their responsibilities but because many people do have a municipal level a societal norm so that people would not pollute the environment I propose this idea that you almost adopt a beach for example Kaohsiung city has sea to one beach I was disappointed in the past few years that beach is neglected it's not even open to the public maybe the new mayor will do something about that and the city in western countries if they have a beach they would think this is one of their greatest assets just on the river they want to be clean and every citizen can access it it's common resource and it's absurd I'm thinkable to have a beach like that and not be being used and joined by citizens and so Daan Shui has the Samui beach for example when I came back to Taiwan in 1998 20 years ago it was open to the public but nowadays a lot of beaches are just being neglected dirty and it's not being used so it's an asset and we just let it sit there I know it's not using this potential it's not being used and neglected just throw trash there so I hope we can do something about that definitely definitely we already saw part of that puzzle by making the kind of harvests open to amateur fishes people initially the professional fishes do not like being interfered with in Taiwan but we eventually managed a way for them to do amateur fishing maybe just one part of the harbour so that they can still participate in their sport without interfering with the professional fishes and then they can all kind of utilize it together and make sure that people who pollute the waters in Taiwan do not walk away without people noticing and so there's a new website ocean.taiwan.gov that all the information that I just mentioned and then some more I suppose the rules the harbour how to use it the local attractions along the beaches and so on even measurement stations that can show the rising tide and things like that and it's pretty comprehensive and so just like the people who claim mountains have their social hub to share their hiking trails and things like that hiking pool and so on we look forward to always developers around the world so that they can more fully utilize the resources that we have here and encourage people to get to the ocean more so if you watch the hashtag you'll probably see more in the coming days and we very much welcome you I'm glad you mentioned how you're interested in ocean culture because I just received a grant from the MOE and we're going to dedicate it to the design dedicated to three SDG goals one is quality education and one is life below life below life below water and then the gender quality so we're going to find the lessons and have that would be incorporated into primary school work 4, 5 and 14 I know in our Aboriginal culture the language the language the coastal language in their traditional culture the ocean is very important they really have an ocean culture that's their life before and also some of it is very close to the harbor it's like we sell them in the bottom of the ocean so I'm going to collaborate with the local army schools and bring students to see those ocean cultures do you want to order more student beach cleanup treats? there are a bunch of students a hundred of them go clean up a beach and educate them on the sea marine life so I want to invite you to my team because it's no longer like language learning so combine with some global issues and you feel connected to the world the situation or we can also cooperate with foreign countries for example there's a show Baywatch in Taiwan I feel like the lifeguards are underfunded we don't have enough money to hire lifeguards to position in different beaches so a lot of beaches accidents happen because we don't even have a lifeguard there so if we work with Australia they're a really strong ocean country and just invite some lifeguards to come over here give some lectures or teachings to even train our lifeguards and then we can provide an individual thing as well the whole idea also makes me think about more exchanges and interactions between our civil servants and civil servants in their respective agencies in our country sometimes we're blocked by China because we can have the country in exchanges that's uninterrupted that's right so we need more of that our civil servants can visit their country and their citizens can visit our country and then we have to speak in English and so assist more interaction with cooperation I think the Ministry of Culture has this kind of program with France I think it's less seen in the national level of the government maybe because of political reasons but also because it's harder to transfer because experience because the national level policymaking is so tied to the kind of legislative politics so that it doesn't easily transfer across one country to another but every municipal is probably pretty similar to many other cities in the world in terms of its location and its France and the SDG that it cares about so far as I understand we have municipal exchange programs with a lot of countries but that's still on the national part I've heard of firefighters in Australia visiting our entire city sister city or sister department maybe we can hold some sort of event together a weekend festival with lifeguards in Australia and our lifeguards and all the shit events from all our features and somehow each safety training that kind of thing is pretty good I think it's a great idea and I'm going to next week meet one of Taipei city's sister cities and the mayor was here in the social innovation lab and he really liked the place so maybe maybe he thought we can but we will make sure that we talk about this kind of exchange between the public servants I think it's a really good idea I just want to say that sometimes you think that okay because we don't have this culture but in foreign countries they have this culture so if we just cooperate and do some learning teaching together then we will pick up this culture just look at going to the gym weight training when I first came back 20 years ago again he wasn't talking in Taiwan but Canada of course when my younger brother goes to the gym I can give people mostly but nothing now we have gyms popping up everywhere these girls are going to the gym to do weight training so now we have this gym bodybuilding culture in the younger generation it didn't exist 20 years ago so ocean culture we just need to invite people who are really good at that and teach us this cultures making more acceptable to the general public or once they think this is fun and fashionable young people will jump on and just catch on I think the goat carn really helps here because they could be still you know, youtubers do you probably work not necessarily for Taiwanese cooperation because previously you have to find a local employer and if your employment terminates so does your resident certificate or your visa your work visa but nowadays we have this idea of a goat carn in which case people who are still working for themselves working for international companies digital nomads and so on they don't have to work for any particular employer but they can still stay in town for 3 years and participate in pretty much exactly the same way as an AARC holder could and so it's basically a kind of support group that they have been putting together at goat carn.com goat carn and I think right here there's around a thousand holders now and there's many I think a hundred goat carn.com that guides people like the first button was do I qualify for the goat carn there was not that permanent in the homepage so I suggested they could be there and then also they walk you through the application process in Taiwan and things like that and that community is an open community so anyone can suggest improvements to that community and the community basically visited me and several of them said that they've never felt so patriotic in their home country so some of them actually came to Thailand just on a tourist visa but then the COVID happened and then they discovered a goat car community and then they converted a 6 month towards visa to a 3 year goat car visa right here and then they started exploring the word opportunity because they're not tied to a particular employer as I said they may be a programmer or a designer by day but then a guard on the beach on the coast or a bodybuilder chain or whatever by night and I think that is really increasing the diversity of coaches in Taiwan and when we have such coaches that all public servants have more opportunity to exercise their English which also furthest applying clinicians call so how many are there now the goat car part is around 1000 because it's a new it's a new visa and it's not very well known before the pandemic but now because of the pandemic people discover suddenly that this is like the best thing because they can go to Taiwan initially on tourism business trip back to the home with the lunar new year or whatever but then they just file a goat car online they don't even have to fly out and back they can just convert into a goat car and then get to stay for 3 years that's very flexible I remember the working holiday program a lot of Taiwanese young people who brought a lot of money around the other way around very many young foreign people want to work in Taiwan it's like a very big imbalance but then we can figure out a way to attract young people from all over the world university students especially to work in Taiwan to increase the cultural structures and each one has a special skill to share with the locals here right? that's right it's a good thing because when you go to Europe you check into a hotel the person at the front desk might not be even from that country even in Canada I was in a band and the girl is from former Yugoslav Republic she could just work in Canada Canada has some sort of agreement allowing young people to work in each other's country freely so there's diversity if you get to meet with an asker about your country it's so surprising they can speak English so we should have this opportunity for our young people in Taiwan and for foreign young people to come to Taiwan to understand our country and to share their culture with us it's excellent so this gold card program sounds like a great idea I've never heard of this I don't even know that they can also repair family and if their family stay with them for 6 months they're also eligible for international healthcare so this is a really good package wow so we need to promote our artists too yeah, we got some cameras well I don't know about that I mean on average the foreign people using the NHI pay more than they use so I don't know about being generous it's a way to make our initiative we are being generous yeah, we're friendly maybe another issue will be about social innovation I don't know does that mean that you help young people who want to start a business yeah, anyone really so they will just come to you yeah, if they start a business so I happen to be the last semester the other semester I was teaching business she's had a lot of success this coming semester and one of the lessons that we had was innovations really students came up with innovative ideas I couldn't believe what's possible yeah, so for example I was telling you about that and I recorded all of them which I said I'm going to show to you guys so you have an idea how innovative our students are how creative they are and for example toothpaste that toothbrush with a toothpaste in one I think that's pretty cool and then a luggage which you can also use for charging it's really amazing when they were doing this in the class I was like mesmerized, really wow, that's great so what's the follow up we can encourage them to do not just for the class sometimes after class they just stop they're just like senior students but I think from this they already have ideas a lot to do they graduate from college they can apply for the U-Start program the U-Start program from the youth development agency the Ministry of Education is one of the I think most venerated entrepreneurship programs that has a large community of fellow innovators to support them some like household names like acupass and so on we're born out of the U-Start plan and the U-Start also has a distinction of the sustainability of that entrepreneurship idea is I think higher than 30% which is very, very high considering startups and I think it's a good platform to apply to and of course the U-Start has all sort of different focus every year based on the kind of societal needs and things like that but if you can just look at winners of a few cases before you will see that for example around the indigenous cases that you were kind of replacing the SDGs not from the western civilization to the now people already mentioned but the other way around sharing the sustainable wisdoms of their indigenous culture to the world that is a popular topic circular economy reusing kind of agricultural ways for business use kind of part of the supply chain or reduce carbon footprint that is also a popular innovation topic so yeah just check out U-Start and anyone who are undergrads or freshly graduated can participate Is this starting at startup? U-Start U-Start U-Start I think it is a super nice study for government so useful and they provide a lot of resources but it is kind of interesting because once we asked so now we know but is there any producer? I was just searching on this anyway so our social innovation lab if you click for the first one and say government resources and it is actually a bilingual website you can click government resources and then you can search across all the different like 12 different ministries and you can sort by SDG sort by organization type sort by the kind of work you are pursuing and then you will see not only the ministry of education which you are more familiar with but also because of Hakka, the ministry of culture the labor ministry and so on and these are like really detailed because I asked them to put the contact of the person the actual contractor or institution that runs this program what exactly they are looking for and so on so when you call this you are much more prepared as compared to a traditional search listing so just check out the social innovation platform on the government resource part so it is not in my head it was just according to your keyword and now you can do this too so you can do this too but it is good to know all of this sure very handy information yes right I think we are pretty much at fine so if people want to take photos or something yeah yeah so do we just sit here and take the photos or something as we are as well