 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Biden is winning and we're starting right now with stardust opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us. Stardust and loaner box. As you can see folks on the left side of the screen are taking the position that yes, Biden is winning and then Sean and infrared on the right side of the screen are taking the position that no Biden is not winning. Thanks so much stardust. The floor is all yours. All right. So I personally do think Biden is winning. I think he's done a lot of really great things. Just to start, I think the Violence Against Women Act was something that he in the 90s had authored himself. Unfortunately, the Trump administration allowed it to expire, but he recently reauthorized it and strengthened it. He also has invested more in crime control and prevention than any president in history, approximately 33 billion in funding for crime control and prevention. There's the American Rescue Plan of 2021 that we can talk about, the CHIPS Act, and even the way that he's handled Ukraine has been pretty much made America leaders on the world stage. And the Inflation Reduction Act is something that I really do think that he's done really well with. He has invested in climate change and he's invested in healthcare. And I think that these are all really good starts. You got it. Thank you very much. We'll kick it over to Lonerbox. Thanks for being with us. Lonerbox, first time thrilled to have you in the floor. It's yours as well. Yeah, thanks for having me. So yeah, I'm pretty left-wing. I would have definitely preferred someone like Bernie over Biden, but I guess ideas aren't as popular as I'd like them to be in my country or in America, so we have to make do with what we've got. And at the moment, I'm kind of pleasantly surprised, especially given that there's basically a 50-50 split in the Senate and America's been quite known for being very gridlocked. And the bipartisan efforts of Biden have resulted in an infrastructure bill and child tax credits. And I didn't think student debt forgiveness was a massive political priority, but it's still a nice thing to see, given the costs in America. As for his foreign policy, it felt like the drone war has all been ended. If you look at the number of drone strikes that were landed on places like Somalia, Iraq, or other places, it's kind of plummeted under Biden compared to Obama and especially Trump. The Afghan pullout, I'm very impressed that he had the courage to do that when Obama said he would, Trump said he would, and finally someone did it. And as for Ukraine, I think it's been pretty exceptional. They've really made a name for themselves on the world stage. And yeah, he's done a pretty good job at keeping those Ukrainian bioweapons still hidden. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening as well. And as mentioned, folks, the title for our panel tonight is, is Biden winning? In particular, of course, is he succeeding as president? Is what we mean by that? And on the right side of the screen, we're going to introduce Sean and infrared, who would take the position that no Biden is not succeeding. Thanks so much for being with us. Sean, good to see you. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. I didn't know I was supposed to take the position that he's not winning. Like Biden's doing amazing. Biden pulled out of Afghanistan. It was stellar. The images were beautiful, crisply, well done, well played. Inflation got out of control, but he said, you know what, I'm going to step it up past the Inflation Reduction Act, which definitely didn't just spend a lot of money on completely different priorities other than inflation. Nailed it right there. He's uniting the country. He just talked about how you can't share a country with MAGA Republicans. And it's not like 74 million people voted for that guy. So nailed it right there. I think Biden is killing it in every regard. You got it. Thank you very much. And then we'll kick it over to infrared. Good to see you again infrared. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. I don't actually think anyone believes Biden's winning at anything. Actually, I think on both counts, he's fucked up the economy to the point of that it's even unrecognizable. As far as American standards are concerned, we have this out of control supply chain crisis and inflation crisis that's been exasperated by these unsecured debts that have been through the printing of money secured and backed by literally nothing at all. We're starting to see the effects of that. I mean, we're in a recession right now. If we define a recession by two consecutive periods of downturn, but even by the mainstream media decide to change the definition of what a recession is, but even the like economists and Powell and Federal Reserve are saying that yeah, it's going to take a miracle to prevent even what they would consider a recession. So yeah, we're on our way for our economy to be headed toward like basically a collapse. The international monetary and economic system is itself going to collapse because of the energy crisis in Europe that's going on. Thanks to Biden's very W strategy with regard to Ukraine, basically cut off all of the supply of energy to gas to Europe, make the Europeans and the Germans freeze, destroy and devastate the European economy, as well as like the subsistence of Europeans. Like how are they going to fucking warm themselves in the winter? We don't have a plan for that. Yeah, we are like this is the meme where it's like everything is burning, but the Biden supporters are saying, yeah, everything's fine right now. They're coping now with this deranged dark Brandon meme, which is I guess like some kind of psychological copium in the midst of this overwhelming destruction brought about by the Biden administration. He has done absolutely nothing to reorient the economy to any substantive basis for the production of value. Our dollars are backed by nothing at all. Yeah, he's throwing more money with student loan forgiveness, just print more money, I guess, you know, you've printed enough. Why not print some more? And then what else is I mean, yeah, and I guess he's pro abortion too. So if you care so much about abortion, I guess that's the thing that matters the most. But yeah, I just I don't I don't really, I'm not convinced that anyone whether I don't care where they lie on the political spectrum. I am not convinced that anyone actually thinks Biden has been doing a good job. I think they're saying he's been doing a good job because they're scared of the possibility that Trump and the Republicans might win. So they have to pretend Biden's doing good, just because they don't want the other side to win, which is already a disingenuous position, which is based purely on optics. Yeah, that's all I have to say really for now. You got it. And before we jump into open conversation, I want to let you know, folks, modern day debate is a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion, and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button as we have many more juicy debates and panels coming up. And with that, thank you very much to all of our guests for being with us. The floor is all yours. I would like to first start off with what do you guys think is causing inflation? The nature of the U.S. monetary economic system, the wild doubling and actually tripling of the money supply, which admittedly didn't necessarily start under Biden. But a president's job is at the minimum to be able to find a way to mitigate this crisis. Instead of mitigating it, he's made it worse. He's fanned the flames. And in proportion to that, the supply chain crisis has increased, inflation has increased on a global economic level, an exact proportion to the amount of money that's been printed. So, yeah, what we're really talking about is the emission of unsecured debts, the rapid emission of unsecured debts. I don't really think they have a plan to deal with this really. I don't know what their plan is, but our economy is headed towards some kind of collapse and they're calling it a recession. It's going to be a lot worse than that. Yeah, so inflation traditionally is too many dollars chasing too few goods. So printing a bunch of money is definitely not a good way to fight off inflation, but also the extension of the unemployment that was done unnecessarily early in the Biden administration and the American Rescue Plan, when we were already coming out of the pandemic, paid a bunch of people not to go to work. If a bunch of people didn't go to work, and then the supply chain was already a mess, it just got delayed in sorting itself out that many more months. So that caused a constriction in supply, which again, if inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods, ruining the chance of us increasing supply for those extra couple of months was obviously going to extend the supply chain shortage and then we would end up with more inflation, which is what we're seeing in a lot of consumer goods. So what I would say is that, sure, part of inflation is caused by things like the ARP, 100%. There's no reason to deny that. But when you break down how much the ARP was in comparison to the GDP and compare how much the inflation that we're experiencing now is affected by ARP, they're estimating somewhere between 11% and 50% could be caused by the American Rescue Plan. The rest of the inflation is most likely from a result of the Ukraine-Russian war, exacerbating the cost of food globally, also a huge shift to durable goods, supply chain pressures exacerbated by China in their zero COVID policy. So yes, while the American Rescue Plan did contribute some to inflation, it also did plenty of other things that I would say outweigh all of that. Let me finish. So it led to us having the quickest economic recovery in the world, the strongest labor market, the most pro-labor labor market. We now have more jobs than workers for the first time in years and we've had millions of people lifted out of poverty. So it's really funny as all that we're talking about, the amount of how much this falls on the United States shoulders, the fact that there's a supply chain crisis all over the world, that there's inflation crises all over the world. I mean, what's specific about the United States policy? How are you linking that directly to inflation? Yeah, I can directly answer that. But did you say 11% to 50% or 15%? Yeah, so 50. So if you want to be extra generous, if you want to, wait a minute, if you want to give, if you, when you have estimates, 50% is me being extremely generous, right? It's me being extremely generous. There's also other problems in this claim because the indications for a surge in global food prices, as well as the inflation crisis in general, were very clear well before the Russian special military operation in Ukraine, and well before the Chinese zero COVID policies. So to blame the brunt of that crisis on that is completely nonsense. Now the answer to the question of why is this a global crisis, it's simple. The importation of foreign goods in the United States increased by 100 billion every month from 250 billion to 350 billion. That's because with all the new money being pumped down and thrown into the American economy, that has come with the buying up and the sweeping up, like a vacuum cleaner of the world's commodities and the world's goods and foreign markets. And that has exasperated prices domestically in other countries. And that is also, that's probably been the number one significant contributing factor to the rise in global food prices. The short answer there is stimulus, right? The short answer there is stimulus. You said the amount of money they're pumping into the economy, right? Well, the amount of credit that they're, yeah, they're printing. But it's not just the stimulus though. Because it's like, you can pump a bunch of money in there and you're going to have inflationary pressures. But when we have containers that are being stockpiled in California that need to be moved out and you extend unemployment and they can't hire the people that they need because they can't afford to pay them more than unemployment, you're setting back what is already a crisis being built in the supply chain. And this happened all over the market. There are more jobs than people, there are more jobs than people looking for work because a lot of people just left the labor force. Like these are some of the problems everywhere is still hiring. And yet you have a bunch of people just messing around going on unemployment. Like it's, it's a disastrous situation. And it didn't need to be that way. We were all coming out of the crisis anyway. And when Biden passed the rescue plan, all of their estimates completely underperformed because they paid people not to work. That makes no sense. If the ARP reduced unemployment and lowered unemployment, how is it that they're paying people to stay home longer? It makes, it's completely... There's a difference between unemployment and labor force participation. Okay. So if you have a lower percentage of people participating in the labor force and therefore you have a lower unemployment, that doesn't mean that there's like a sea of more jobs. That means that less people are looking for work in the, compared to the jobs that you have available. No, this, it created jobs for people. It has double... What kind of jobs did it create? It nearly double GDP growth. Like I don't know. I don't know. I think it's like 4 million additional jobs it created. I don't know what industry is there in, but you're talking about the supply chain disruption. It mostly has to do with the fact that the Russia-Ukraine war has caused food prices to go up and the China zero policy has very much disrupted the supply chain. So how do you explain the fact that food prices were already beginning to rise well before the special military operation? Because we were coming out of a pandemic. Okay. So which one is it? Because we were headed toward a rapid surge in global food prices. And now you're just saying that it's because of the special military operation, even though... And by the way, no, you're wrong. Because if we were coming out of a pandemic, we were coming out of the lockdown sphere, then we should have seen indications that the global prices of food would have been going down, right? But the opposite was true. We absolutely wouldn't, because when you have a global supply chain disruption, a non-precident one of that, yeah, it does. You would expect it to take time for things to realign. Like, yeah, of course, that just because... Okay. Yeah. But the essence of the... Gentlemen, forgive my interruption, but just want to let you know, as planned, we're going to have Maddie Cakes join into the dialogue as well as to keep it balanced. We have a conservative guest as well jumping into the conversation. And then we'll kick it right back to you, Haas, because I didn't mean to interrupt you. But thrilled to have Joel here with us, as well as Maddie Cakes. Thanks for being with us, Joel and Maddie Cakes. Appreciate you entering into the conversation. As you were, infrared, thanks so much. Yeah, I was just going to say, one of the reasons why there is a relationship between the global supply chain crisis and COVID is because with COVID, again, we had all these stimuluses, not only stimuluses, we had these checks given to people for consumers to buy goods. So there's this rapid increase of demand of goods. But the actual means to produce those goods is no longer being defined by the market. So all of a sudden, you have a demand for goods without any regard for the supply chains that produce those goods and distribute those goods. So it all is coming back to this tripling of the money supply that can't account for the way things are produced in the first place. Usually, we have a manufacturing base. We actually have a basis for the value of the dollar in some kind of way. And that exchanges for other goods. So there's equivalences going on. That completely disappeared. So when you're just blaming COVID, you're just brushing the surface. We're not blaming COVID. We've named several different reasons. Also, the Civilian Labor Force participation rate has actually been rising. It is almost back at pre-pandemic levels. Okay, they're not participating in any kind of labor that actually produces economic... How do you know that? Because American manufacturing has not, I'm going to cite something called common sense, and it means the shit that actually produces real, tangible things and actually participates in the actual process by which those tangible things are distributed through transportation and storage. That's actually the stuff that grows material, tangible wealth. So you need to actually use your hands to make things for things to actually be in the economy. I don't know. It's common sense. Hold on. This chart that was just sent to me by Starda says, pre-pandemic, we are about 63.4% labor force participation rate. At the bottom, it's at 60.2. So about a 4% drop, and now we're at 62.4. So when you say recovered, you mean the half of the decrease from the pandemic has returned. So labor force participation is net down from the start of the pandemic, which was my point. We're almost back up. We're approaching rapidly. We're not even in a recession anymore. All you have to do is change the definition of these things, and then congratulations, you've got a W, right? We're not in a recession because the definition of a recession changed. And I'm sure the labor force has rapidly increased because we've probably changed the methodology with which to define labor force participation. So what we're really dealing with is a semantic regime of just changing reality with words, but the underlying reality stays the same. Haas, would you consider members of the military as workers? Sorry. What's the relevance of this question? Just answer the question. I'll get to it. What do you think? It depends on what they do. Okay. So it's only the ones that produce tangible things? First of all, anyone can be a worker. Anyone can be a worker. We're talking about what kind of... I'm just wondering, when you talk about generating wealth, when you talk about changing the definitions of things, economists are pretty clear in what that definition has been. And by producing tangible goods, that's one way of generating wealth. But then in order to distribute those goods, you also have things that go downstream so that you can then distribute it. That's why I mentioned distribution distribution. But in your mind, distribution would not quote-unquote count as part of it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I literally... If you go back in time, I don't know if your memory is really short. I literally mentioned... My memory is very short. So I literally mentioned distribution, transportation, and storage. So all of those count. Is that true? Because then you seem to be obsessing over this idea that because we aren't this... The manufacturing powerhouse that maybe you think we should be, that somehow none of that actually counts in growing our economy. Wait, wait, are you high? That is how... No, I have a master's in economics. I'm trying to understand... You don't have a master's... You don't have a master's in... Clearly don't have a master's in two-minute memory because I literally just... Oh, are they issuing those now? Yeah, I literally just said transportation, storage, and distribution are part of tangible labor. So I literally said that ad verbatim if you wind back in two minutes. This is insanity. Can someone clip me literally saying it and then show her deranged response saying, oh, are you not mentioning transportation? I literally said it. Oh my God, that sounds just like me. But just to be sure in case anybody else had any thoughts and hasn't spoken for a while, you're invited. I just want to go back because I said it three times. I know, Sean, you didn't say this... When you keep on saying about increasing the money supply and using stimulus and printing more money is if that's the way you get... That explains all the inflation. It's like you can look at all the top OECD countries. It's like Japan was actually the one that spent the biggest portion of its GDP on stimulus, and they actually went through deflation for the first bit of 2021 only to get 2.5% inflation now. And then followed by that, you've got Germany, Italy, both with lower inflation than the USA, despite spending bigger portions of their GDP on stimulus. The UK spent less of its GDP on stimulus, but got more inflation than the US. So yeah, it's just bullshit. I didn't know that the yen and the euro were the world's reserve currency. Why does that matter? Why does it matter if the world's reserve currency takes the majority of the blunt of the inflationary pressures, which is actually responsible for the production of the majority of the credit that's being used to vacuum sweet the global markets and being used to be recycled during rational investments? I mean, I don't know. What does that have to do with me saying that the amount of the portion of GDP you spend in relation to how much inflation you get doesn't correlate? What is that? Well, hold on. It definitely does correlate, but just because Europe and Japan did not experience as much inflation, in the case of Japan, you have situations where apparently they're explaining experience deflation. That does not mean that there's no correlation between them. No economist would say there's no correlation between tripling the money supply and inflation. That is just insanity. Yeah, they would say that there's some correlation, but how much correlation is that? You just said there's none. Every time I asked you about inflation, you kept on saying it's increasing the money supply, but yeah, it depends on how you increase the money. If you increase the money supply, you keep on securing debts. I would still argue, even if the ARP caused some inflation, I would say the trade-off that trade-offs we got were worth way more, creating 4 million jobs, lowering unemployment, nearly doubling the GDP, increasing health insurance enrollment by 4.2 million and keeping 3.7 million children out of poverty. Across the board, I would take that. I don't mind that they're being a little bit inflation because of that. We don't really need to do like the politicians speak. We can just admit to the fact that since 2008, since that economic crisis, this is the nature of how the American economy has worked. We've pumped money, we've increased credit, we've increased the money supply, and we've just thrown credit at the economy to solve all of our problems. Now that's come to a head and it's come to a point where there's no going back and it doesn't work anymore, basically. The question is, is Biden doing a good job? No, he's not. He's just fanning the flames of a crisis that he, yes, inherited, which he's not entirely responsible for, but if we're going to call him a good president, he should be a president that's going to find a way to resolve that, and he hasn't. He's just contributed to the crisis in an even worse way. We were expecting, before the American Rescue Plan, millions of jobs to come in. I remember in the first month, it was like March or May of 2021, when it was passed, and they were ready to announce the jobs report that everybody was already projecting to be great, and then all of a sudden, 266,000 jobs came in. The idea that the jobs that were lost due to shutdown came back at the same time Joe Biden spent money on this unnecessary stimulus. Therefore, the stimulus created the jobs is absurd. To your point, I talked about how you spend the money can obviously impact the supply chain, which could unevenly distribute the effects of inflation. We've seen housing prices explode. One of the reasons why is because interest rates were so low, and people were buying up hard assets, houses, as A, a hedge against inflation, as B, they're moving out of the cities because they're scared of the pandemic. We also had supply chain shortages and lumber and all these other building materials, which also further constricted the supply. The price increases are going up unevenly, but everybody should already know this. If you're like, oh, it didn't happen the same way in the UK or in Japan, well, did Japan direct a bunch of money towards real estate or a bunch of low interest rates towards real estate, which caused a bunch of people to borrow and then move into that real estate at the same time when we were not shipping that containers from California, which had lumber and all this stuff that we would have needed to build new stuff. I don't think so. Maybe, maybe they did the same exact things. Maybe they shot themselves in the foot twice as well. And it just worked out differently, but I doubt it. Wait, is anyone, is this someone streaming to Twitch right now? No. No. Oh, I'll stop. That's right. You're banned, huh? I forgot too. I'm sorry. I'm going to turn it off right now. Don't worry, you friend. They'll never know. In a little bit, we will talk about college debt relief, which is going to be a juicy component. So we'll give you maybe five, 10 minutes to wrap this topic up before we do jump into that, such as whether it's fair, all that good stuff, but please continue. And infrared, I promise I'll stop streaming on Twitch. Oh, you were streaming to Twitch. Oh, technically, but I'm stopping. Okay. Oh, fuck. Shit. We have like two viewers on Twitch. Nobody will notice. I promise you'll get just delete the bottom. Yeah. All right. But continue. And especially Joe, I want to say thanks so much. Glad to have you with us. Joe, if you had any thoughts on this, because we had Maddie and Joe enter in kind of a staggered format, which I kind of like, by the way. So thanks, Maddie and Joe for coming in about 30 to 40 minutes in. Joe, any thoughts on this topic? Yeah, I'm not too sure where we're at with it, but maybe I can be more concentrated at the next point or the next like portion of this. But I think like, if I'm talking about Joe Biden broadly, I think that the Democrat party and Joe Biden did a very good job at confusing Americans on what governing is. And instead of like clarifying what the fight is and what we're trying to do and what the shared fate is as a people, he's just kind of like, and again, this is a problem of content. Cause I don't think Democrats have content in their politics, where it's very unpredictable to figure out or understand like how they're individuals from the Democrat party operate. And I think that's like, it's a problem. Like I think Democrats need content in their politics so that the people understand like what the fight is, what, what the goals are, what the shared fate is. And now we can move forward as people. But maybe I can, I'll be much more, I'll probably much more clear in the next thing about student debt forgiveness and stuff like that. Probably we can jump into that topic right now. Student debt relief, what are your thoughts, fans or not? By the way, folks, since we had new people enter, I want to just explain kind of the visual for what's going on. So stardust on the left as well as right below her, Maddie, and then loaner box right above me are taking more of a pro Biden stance with regards to tonight's question of whether or not Biden is succeeding as president. And then as you can see on my, or I should say on the right top side of your screen, Sean, as well as Joe, just below him and then infrared just below me are taking more of a no position with regards to whether or not Biden is succeeding. But when it comes to the college student debt relief, what are your thoughts? If I want to go first, okay, I just think he's just throwing money at the problem, which is what he's basically trying to bribe sections of the electorate by writing off what 10,000 office student loans, which is like one 16th of the majority of people's loans, I'm not sure. So our regular four year degrees loans. So I mean, like, he's basically just throwing peanuts, you know, peanuts at the electorate and saying, Hey, get us through the midterms, I'll just throw some worthless money at you temporarily. And even though that money is going to be worthless and money as such is going to be worthless and pretty, you know, years to come. I guess if that's how you solve problem, sure, just keep throwing money at stuff. Why not free shit? Yeah, money doesn't matter, everything's made up. As Biden canceled some of this debt, let's just remember why this debt exists in the first place. This started back in the early 1970s when a Reagan and Nixon advisor was quoted in an interview saying that free college was producing the, quote, dangerously explosive dynamite of a educated proletariat and quote, we have to be selective on who we allow to go through higher education. So that's a little bit of saying the quiet part out loud because in the past, actually, there was a lot more state funding that went towards higher education in California until Reagan was governor, tuition at any university of California or Cal State school was free. So up until the early 1970s, it was this sort of great equalizer. If we really want to believe we live in a meritocracy, that's the way to do it. But they couldn't have that. Nope. So rather than continue to pay for education, to build out an educated workforce, they started passing on the buck to the students and these students' families rather than have the state fund it. And over time, they've slowly chipped away into the clusterfuck we have now, where people, even after 10 years of making every single student loan payment, are still not even making a dent into the principle of that initial loan. And that is obnoxious. And the fact that student loans aren't treated the same way as other loans. So if you were to declare bankruptcy, you don't get out of your student loans. Yeah, that's bullshit. So I think we need to forgive them. Maybe we should stop, like, lying to ourselves about what the problem is then. No. I think it's a multi-prong approach, but I agree. I think this is a step one, but it needs to be coincided with other stuff. Why does the workforce need interpretive dance degrees with dumb four-year degrees? What exact degrees does our workforce need exactly? What degree do you have, Hoss? Hoss, I want to know, what's the average debt for a U.S. undergrad? Because you said the 10K was 1.16. I don't know the average debt, but I think for a four-year college, it can go up to that. We can recognize... It's the average is like 20K or 25K for an undergrad. We can recognize that certain professors... I think I'll go up to grad school too, I don't remember. Where the fuck did 1.16 come from? I'm sorry. We can recognize that certain degrees of education are not going to be able to interface in the market the same way. And something that, again, I think we're approaching the student debt-freakendness problem a little bit... It's not a policy. I think we need to approach it as a matter of a class action settlement. Like during the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, people needed a path forward. And instead of a jobs policy and a jobs guarantee program, every state in some capacity sold people on school and education, as a means of participating in the market. And that, to me, is nonsense. This is something that Democrats did, this is something Republicans did. But Democrats did it in the most affairious way, because they would appeal to institutions of education, and then make these ideas like, well, these things are a problem, but still go through with them, still pursue your dreams. But occur this debt that you're going to have a long time paying off. And I'm saying that we should probably have a much more concentrated approach on this, and actually treat it like a class action settlement. And that a lot of people were lied to, a lot of people were defrauded. And the federal government has to take that L. And has to take that L hard, and with all the entire, all the buckshot, the shotgun. Yeah. So the student loan debt, the student loan debt policy, the student loan debt, so-called crisis, is a problem of the government. The debt forgiveness is ridiculous. It benefits people that definitely shouldn't benefit from it. Like my fiance and myself, we're going to get married. We're going to have a ridiculous income. Thank you so much, suckers, for paying off part of her student loan debt. We will enjoy that with her high-end career and with my successful YouTube show. But in reality, the reason college is so expensive is not because of Nixon Reagan advisor conspiracy theory. It's because the federal government is subsidizing education. There's an old economic theory called the Benin hypothesis. It is proven to be true time and time again, that every time the government increases the amount that you can borrow, increases the amount for the Pell Grant. What ends up happening is those costs get absorbed by the college. There was no great defunding of education. One of the biggest problems with the UC system in California is not this evil Reagan-Nixon advisor. It's the fact that they employ 200,000 people, yet they have 280,000 students. And 143,000 of those employees in the California UC system are administrative staff. So only 20,000 as faculty. Somehow, all of this money that is being directed to the universities is being used to hire all these administrators. And we're wondering why college is going up so much. It's like, I can't figure it out. It's almost as if we've created a government program that incentivizes colleges and students to race tuition without care, because the students can borrow whatever and for giving a portion of the debt, only further incentivizes students to do this negative behavior, which will put further upward pressure on tuition. I really like the payments for undergrad loans being capped at 5% of your income. That's a terrible policy. What if your interest rate is higher than that? No, I think it's a good policy. It's a similar policy that's instituted internationally and it works for them. So to say that it'll be disastrous, it's like, but we have blueprints showing why it's successful. So how can you stand your saying that? I mean, is the goal to have people pay their minimum payments every single month, or is the goal to get people out of debt? Because if your interest rate is higher than, if your interest rate charges you higher than 5% of your discretionary income, then you're accruing more interest than you're paying every month, which means you will actually never pay off that debt. The goal is for it to be better for the economy. Hold on one second. Pardon my interruption, but I think we hadn't heard from the owner box for a while. Sean, where are you getting that from? What do you think the interest is going to increase if they reduce the payments from 10% to 5? If it's 5% of your discretionary income is your minimum payment, and the amount that you borrowed plus the fixed interest rate is higher than 5% of what is calculated as your discretionary income, the interest is going to continually accrue. Wait, hang on. Wait, wait, didn't Biden get elected on a platform of immediately forgiving all student debt? No, in fact, he was explicit in saying he did not support that. But, you know, do they not have Google in your town? So what was his platform? Because I clearly don't remember. He has a website. I don't know if you can like find the search bar, but... Sean, I'm not necessarily sure you believe what you're saying, so I'm going to pick your brain. You don't believe what you're saying, sure. Yeah, no, no, I think... The loan balances are forgiven after 10 years of payments instead of 20. They took that down. So that wouldn't matter if you didn't want to go for that. Yeah, if you don't... That's already the system. If you make 10 years of payments, then the loans can be forgiven. But look at the forgiveness rate under that program. Well, no, it used to be 20. Now it's down. No, no, it was 10. If you have zero payments, if your income is so low that your actual payment is zero, then it's 25 years. All you have to do is make below 1.5 times the poverty line for 25 years, and they'll forgive your student loan, and you won't have to pay anything. And they said that the loan balances won't grow. Wait, I didn't say that. Wasn't it he was going to forgive all undergraduate tuition-related federal student debt from two-and-four-year colleges? No, no, that's like Bernie Sanders free public college. Oh, no, it's like a quote from him at verbatim, though, that's the problem. It might be for federal employees. Like, you get forgiveness if you're in the federal employee program. Like, if you do a service requirement. This is his campaign promise. He promised that he was going to forgive all undergraduate tuition-related federal student debt from two-and-four-year public colleges and universities, the debt holders earning up to 125,000. So he kind of seems like he's like, it's a little power. That was not, like, a statement. Where are you getting this from? Yeah, but it's in the direct bonus. Well, from Joe. From where? But from where? Like, what interview? Wait, how much do people borrow on average from public universities over the course of four years? I don't think that matters, Sean. It does matter because he might have said that. He might be right. And he, because you borrow less for public colleges, so he might have said this 10,000 was toward that. So he could be right. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It literally is all like semantics and jump. The question I have. So by the way, the 10k that people are getting forgiven is it's for everyone making less than 125k for individuals, and it's 250k for married couples. So it's very specific. Who gets that forgiveness? I do think that the payment for undergrad loans being capped at 5% of your income is really good. I think that we want to make things affordable for people so that they can live healthy lives, contribute to the economy, invest in things while still paying off their student loans. So where does the money come from to fund that? Where do you think money comes for anything to fund anything in the government? Let me ask you that question. Do you want me to draw your picture? Where does the value of money actually come from? Can you answer that question? I'm not getting in this philosophical bullshit debate. It's not. We're going to get high. I feel like money is supposed to be a proportion. You guys keep going. Sorry, Joe. You know what? Let's hear Joe's question. Let's hear Joe's question. So Sean, what did you go to school for? Like you mentioned that student loan forgiveness doesn't affect you. I went to school for criminal justice. No, no. I didn't say it didn't affect me. I said I benefit from it. Thanks, suckers. Like the inverse benefits of it, right? Is it a fair characterization that for somebody like you is going to directly benefit you where it might not benefit for other people? Is that what you were saying earlier? I was going to benefit my fiance. It's going to be awesome. Thanks, suckers. Yeah. So the question is, why do you keep paying that? Like any policy that benefits. Okay. Thanks, owner box. Thank you. Wait, wait, wait. Let's let, let's, let's. Got a winner box. So like the thing that I'm curious about is, do you think every degree in the United States is able to interface in the market the same way that your degree can? I think that people on average, first of all, I got a degree in criminal justice and I make YouTube videos. So I don't know if that's the best option. Secondly, I didn't say, can the average person, I'll clarify the question. Can the average person with a criminal justice degree interface in their field and interface with the market? I mean, you could get a job. Does it relate to that degree? What kind of jobs are available to you? Yeah. But the bunch of government positions, I had a bunch of people that went on to work at law firms and all kinds of jobs. Can those jobs, generally speaking, if you get them pay off their, pay off your debts? Yeah, sure. Is the same true for philosophy majors? Yeah, philosophy is one of the prerequisites for law. It's one of the most profitable degrees long-term. I'm saying with just a degree in philosophy, can a person who graduates with a BA in philosophy be able to interface in the market? What jobs are they getting? What jobs are the philosophy majors? I don't know specifically what job fields they end up in, but I remember distinctly when people said, we need more welders instead of philosophy majors, that philosophy major is made about double the amount of welders. So maybe you think it's less applicable than it actually is. What impact do philosophy majors have? Yeah, that's my point. What impact do philosophy majors have on the economy? What are they doing? How should I know? That's a problem, right? It's a problem that I don't know how a specific degree would interface with the economy. Does a discipline have to be profitable in order for it to derive value? Okay, so I think, look, you're using the word profitable. Like you realize things don't come out of thin air. Like somewhere along the line, we actually have to make real things and real shit to exchange them for other real goods. This has just come out of thin air. If we want to buy the goods on the global markets to consume or to use in some kind of way, we have to exchange those for goods that we produce. There has to be some kind of equivalent. We can't just print money out of fucking thin air and just expect that somehow not to be too much. Does this feel condescending when somebody like watches you like this? In my field of expertise? Yeah, I love it. It feels great. But I asked you, hold on, I asked you in your field of expertise where the value of a given currency comes from. You're asking me, do you understand that when you trade a good and service for money that that money has to come from somewhere? Like, thank you, Dr. Obvious. My God, we're so glad we're allocating time for this conversation. Okay, where does the value of a given unit of currency actually come from? It comes from a lot of different places. You want to talk monetary policy. Do you want to talk like currency exchange I'm just saying you seem to be under the impression I know, I'm interested in where Joe is going with that. You seem to think you can have an economy full of a bunch of over-educated, over-professionalized, interpretive dance degree people. Yeah, that was what my master's thesis was on was interpretive dance economy at scale. Pause, I'm with you on that. I don't see the value in the market in getting a degree in ballet. I don't see a value in the marketing in a degree in dance, art history, philosophy. Even if you think about it, it's not even just the market. It's even, it's what the market is downstream from. It's like, how are actually real things produced? So where does the actual real economy come from? Who do you think administrates those large-scale industrial operations? Who do you think runs the actual operation out of it? There's not just people. We have few industrial operations and we have too many administrative operations. Hush, hush. Go ahead, Maddie Cakes will give you about 30 seconds to get that out and then once she's done, it'll be easier for us to hear both of you separately. I think it's incredibly naive to devalue the what are called often softer sciences or saying, you know, oh, no, everything should be STEM. Everything should just be applied, whatever, because there's so much value that and other skills that you develop in the more liberal arts type studies that do, if you want to measure success by profitability or having sort of influence in generating wealth, generating value, there's a lot of value in those softer things. Take this as someone who lives in Silicon Valley and works with a ton of STEM people. The thing I see that is their biggest downfall that often prevents people from moving up the ladder or actually making something substantial is the fact that they have terrible communication skills. They're brilliant in terms of programming or building something, can't communicate what the value is or how to use it and that's where they fall short. The people that end up doing well are the people that have actually invested in developing those softer skills. So I think, again, I just think it's really naive to make that assumption and it just demonstrates kind of a lack of scope or lack of perspective. That sounds like a typical bureaucrats excuse for wasting people's time. I don't know why you need a four degree waste of your time to learn communication skills. I'm not sure that's down to people not getting a four degree degree. And that's more, I think it's more down to people not getting enough social skills in the way they're raised. And then second of all, you said, oh, you're devaluing the softer sciences. We have the internet and you want to learn about philosophy or anything else. You can learn it all from the internet. It's a complete waste of time to expect you to have an economy based on giving people loans, to take out loans, to spend money, to have it taught to them in an institutionalized, straight jacked way, which we're going to learn the critical thinking skills with which we even apply this in an independent way. They're just going to learn the standardized testing and oh, how do you have these? It's just a waste of people's time. Why standardize it? You can learn all that on the fucking internet. Meanwhile, you said, oh, who actually administrates all these industrial operations? The problem with our economy today is we have too few industrial operations and we have way too many of these administrators. We need to go back and revitalize the actual substantive base of our economy. Have you ever worked in a factory, Haas? Yeah, I've worked in a warehouse for a summer. So, yeah. For a summer. Okay. Thank you. Are you against the intersection between Haas? To be relevant, what a stupid talk. Yeah, Haas or you? I got to disagree with you. I know Joe Gizguzmi. Yeah, go for it. Like the frustration I have is that, listen, I'm not going to discourage Black folks getting degrees in Black and Africana studies, but I'm not going to sit here and act like there's a whole career path for all those lovable Black folks getting degrees in Black and Africana studies, because there is nothing there. You're just going to go right back into the institution that gave you the degree in the first place. I don't think that's okay. And there's like a lot of fields that are just sort of like self-feeding monsters where it's like, what is a degree in music performance going to give you in the actual economy of the gig economy that you're entering into? Nothing, unless you're really, really lucky. And even if you're not lucky and incredibly talented, then you're already going to be sucked out and not get to the degree in the first place. And I think that's something that Joe Biden needs to do to show that he actually understands the game is that just calling it out on its bullshit, saying that, look, all your philosophy majors, there's nothing in the market for you. So we got to figure something out for you. We got to figure something out for your debt. And that's, I don't think that's something he's willing to clarify. There's nothing in the market for you philosophy majors except for law, because that's exactly what law school is. If you want to go into law, but I don't want to die. Except for literally that. Well, actually, the finance industry recruits a lot of philosophy people. Wait, wait, wait. The law is the question. This is law. Hold on. I want to give Joe a really quick, just to clarify what you meant by that, Joe. And then I want to kick it really, really quick, Joe. And then I want to kick it over to Stardust. Instead of, yeah, instead of saying, like, hey, for bettering yourself, there's going to be jobs that are very clear for you. When you get out of these programs, that wasn't the case. It's just go for more school, get a BA in philosophy, then get a master's in law to eventually get a JD. Like, and it's just more schools. You don't need to get a master's before a JD. Yeah, so the. Yeah, that's not that. Sean, this really doesn't have anything to do with anything. Like the issues with why education is so expensive is because the federal government is guaranteeing loans. It's oversubsidizing people going to school. And what we should do is pull the government out of it and make you actually have to get a loan in the market because no bank, if they were risking their own money, would lend you 200 grand to get a degree in gender studies. And then you'll see a lot more people going to state schools not borrowing all this money because it won't be available. And we'll start to see downward pressure on tuition. Everything we're doing incentivizes tuition increases. And we keep doubling down, expecting different results. And it's ridiculous. No, that's not true. Banks will give you a shit mortgage for like, with like super predatory sliding scale interest rates. It's like, why did they do that? They went a thousand percent because they know because they know we're going to make a bank off it. Why did they do that, though? Yeah, I mean, and this. Why would a bank. The reason they gave out those subprime loans is because Fannie Mae is because Fannie Mae was buying them. Not just Fannie Mae. Like it's because somebody else was buying them. That's my exact point. Because it's risky. But sorry, I think Stardust wanted to talk. Well, look, I just wanted to say like the student loan relief plan from Biden came in a whole bunch of different phases. And I think we're getting hung up on things like just the forgiveness, right? I brought it up before, but like the capping on based on income. That was that was interesting. That was, I think, a really good idea. Also, there are things being put in place to reduce the cost of college and holding schools accountable when they hike up prices in the future. There are things that Biden the Biden administration is doing with student loan relief and their and their plans regarding student loan relief to make sure that people in the future who are borrowing can now be to find it more manageable in the future. And that schools who hike up these prices are being held accountable. This is exactly what you want, right? No, because what happened is, is the system did not fundamentally change, except now students have it in their mind that they can borrow more because it will be forgiven if it gets worse. So all the incentives are pushing tuition up and this furthers those incentives. So the idea that they're going to hold them accountable, they're going to go to a university and wag their finger at them. Well, congratulations. That is not going to beat out the fact that all these lending institutions are going to be encouraging young people to borrow more and more. Because guess what? Through executive order, they already forgive 20K. Just wait. When it gets really bad, we're going to forgive 30K. We're going to forgive 40K. Yeah, that's only for Pell Grant recipients. And I don't know if you've looked at what the requirements are to qualify for a Pell Grant, but these are people that probably need that relief the most. Unless you just want higher education to just be for kids of the wealthy, then sure. Again, let me reiterate that 10K only goes to people, that 10K is only for people who as individuals are making less than 125K and less than 250K as mere couples. Those gross gas motherfuckers making under 125. Bring us back to the original topic. Bring us back to the original topic. Okay. Bring us back to the original topic. Let me try. Let me try. Bring this one. Let's see infrared. Go ahead. I want to hear you. Fred. Okay, sure. Okay. Bring it back to the original topic. Here's the issue. Trump, whether you agree with it or not, had a plan for bringing our economy back. He said, I want to have all these tariffs. I want to bring back domestic industry. I want to bring back real manufacturing and real jobs for America, revitalize our manufacturing industry. That was his plan. He had at least had one, right? Biden doesn't. Biden's plan is I'm going to throw money at all these people. I'm going to forgive all this debt. I'm going to throw money here, throw money there. Where the fuck is the money coming from? What plan does he have to actually make our economy stronger at the actual level of the real economy, not just the level of numbers and definitions. Because they're starting to just change the definitions of what growth means. They're saying, after two consecutive periods of growth, that's not a recession anymore. They're just changing the definition of what that is. It's ridiculous. That's the only plan Biden has is to in an Orwellian way, just redefine all the ways we use to measure economic strength. Listen, I have no idea why anything that he just said was relevant to the student loan stuff like the loaner box. Sean, you keep implying that people are going to borrow more, but you can only borrow what you need for your degree. It's not like there's going to be more debt relief. And then suddenly all the people from the fucking ghetto are going to overrun Harvard next year. And yeah, you borrow what you need for your degree. Once again, the Bennett hypothesis, all these influxes of cash into the college system are absorbed by the institutions. So they will raise tuition knowing that the federal government is still guaranteeing these loans, which is part of the problem in the first place. And students are not going to be as worried about the price because it's already been forgiven. Like your system only works if we pretend that humans don't respond to incentives, which spoiler alert is not the case. We've been trying the same thing over and over again. Now we've added an even more corrupt incentive into the system. And we're going to see negative results. What we need to do is tell kids, you don't need to dorm. You don't need to pick your college based on which one has the best water park. Go in state. Go to a state school. It's much cheaper commute. Stack your classes in single days and get a job and you can afford it. This is exactly how I did it. So that's assuming then that that's somehow better. And like if you do that, then you'll be debt free or you won't fall into this horrible cycle of having 30 years of debt piled up where you've already paid back the principal, sometimes almost twice the amount. Like these are state college graduates that are suffering from this. In a lot of cases, they're people that went to an in-state school, but because of the financial burden, because of how much it took them to not only being working and sometimes working full time while going to school at night, they simply couldn't afford to finish their degree. So they're paying back student loans for a degree. They weren't even able to finish. So trying to make it seem as, oh, if you just do this stuff, you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, then all of a sudden it's going to be fine. No, that's bullshit. And the data shows that that's bullshit. And in fact, like you say, oh, well, the colleges have been doing it like this and it hasn't worked. But like our entire system was structured not that long ago where the government did pay a lot more per student at community colleges and state colleges, state universities. And that's why it was so accessible because that piece of the puzzle was being funded by the government, but instead they've passed that on incrementally over the last, what, 40, 30, 40 years? Why shouldn't the university system be destroyed? Why shouldn't there be a destruction of the college industry? Explain. Just blow everything up, pause. Like, and then we can do about definitions. First of all, the idea that the people driving student loan debt are in-state undergraduates is absurd. The average undergraduate tuition for an in-state resident is $9,000. You're saying none of them have a crushing student debt? They went to private schools. Most of them dorm. Oh, those are the only people. It's undeniable. Right? Hold on. That's bullshit. Pardon? That's bullshit. So you think that people are getting, so at a cost of an average of $9,000 a year, you think people are getting to $200,000? You think people just went? Quiet for a second because, to be fair, you were interrupting Sean while I was talking. Go ahead, Sean, and then we'll kick it back to Maddie. So if the average cost for in-state when you don't dorm is around $9,000 a year, you think that the crazy numbers that we're seeing of $200,000 has somehow gotten to by there? Like, how did they do that? Sean, these aren't the people who are getting relief from the debts, though, are they? Yeah. It's people making under $125,000 a year. That's a good amount of money. Mary Couples making under $250,000. Yeah, but obviously, if you're talking, any policy is going to sometimes benefit people who are earning a lot. But if your student debt is really, really high, then 10K off is nothing. Like, the whole point is to benefit people who paid less. I don't know why you keep asking that. For those who are so happy about the student debt thing, how like, what is your time? Just to hear the last sentence from the owner box, the premise will come right to you. I couldn't hear the last thing you said, the owner box. I forgot. It doesn't matter. Go ahead, infrared. For everyone who's so happy about this student loan debt forgiveness, I want to know what timescale we're on, because we're looking at an implosion of our economy with the next few years. Is this like a W for a few months? Is this a W for a year? How long is this going to be a W for? Because this is not a systemic solution to anything. It's literally just throwing peanuts at an already suffering masses. It's alleviating some of their pain, maybe temporarily, for a few months or a year or something. I mean, why is that a W? Why is it an accomplishment to barely try and heal some aspects of the symptom while doing nothing for the disease, not only doing nothing for the disease, but exasperating the problem, exasperating the disease, not only on an economic level, but even on a political level with this increasingly divisive rhetoric, which is leading our country down the path of a civil war? How the fuck is this a W? I just want to hear an explanation. You're getting into the nitty-gritty of like, oh, the debt is structured in this way, the 10,000, 125,000. Why the fuck does all that matter in a timescale of just merely years? Why does it matter? Explain. Do you really believe that like the entire economy is going to collapse in the next few years and that like we're approaching a doomsday? Yeah. Like, is that your... I mean, you get the next instance of your position. Every fucking year until it happens, then say, I told you so. Yeah, that's what they do. So why serious? The Federal Reserve, the Federal Reserve, and the top economists are all saying a recession is inevitable. The top economists? Where do they go to college? You ask the economy and become a fucking millionaire. If you really believe that. Good. You don't think there's going to be a recession. You're saying there's not going to be a recession, right? There's always going to be a recession. Society is not going to collapse. No, there's going to be a recession next year. Do you... Is there going to be a recession next year or before next year? Okay, then why are you not hedging the economy for one year then? You'll be... Yeah. So I'm just going to type recession on Google since you're so fucking unreformed. Oh, are we in kindergarten right now? What is going on? Why don't you just short the... Why don't you just short the economy for a year? You'll be a millionaire. Do you want me to send you a Wikipedia article? Can we focus on the issue at hand, which is student loan debt? Economist Stephen Roche, this is on CNBC, says, US needs a miracle to avoid recession. Negative economic growth in the year's first half may be a foreshock to a much deeper downturn that could last into 2024. That's what he's saying. Is that guy like... Okay, is that a recession? Are you saying the recession equals a full economic collapse? Because you're talking very doomsday and you're like, why should we care about this when we should be building a bomb shelter? From a systemic perspective, the current monetary, financial, and economic system we have here in the United States cannot... It cannot ameliorate this crisis. It's going to spiral into a collapse of the economy. Absolutely. You look at what's going on at an international level. Countries are rapidly ditching the petrodollar. Saudi Arabia is signing deals with China and Russia. You're dealing with a completely new economic system that our current economy here in the United States is unprepared for. How can you think that things can simply go on? It's just baffling. Can I bring you back, Sean, if you want to talk about the student thing again? So the way I understand it is that the relief goes from the Department of Education to the students. I don't think there's been any indication that the Department of Education is going to issue out higher loans. So I don't know where you're getting this leap from the Department of Education relieving loans that already exist to colleges ramming up their fees. First of all, once people get this forgiveness, which they will, they're going to be less cautious about borrowing money. Do you agree or disagree? We don't look like... People are in science advice to go into education. Hey, guys, what happens when food runs out? What's going to happen when food runs out? What's going to happen when food runs out? I'm just trying to ask this. I'm just trying to ask. Just to go to loaner box. I promise we'll come back to you infrared, but let's just hear the last point from loaner box. Yeah, maybe people will be more incentivized to try to go to university, but it's whether or not the universities are going to be taking more students, right? But would you think that they're less... Would be less cautious about borrowing money after some forgiveness actually happened or more cautious? If you had to bet your own... You might be more inclined to try to get into university, yeah. It's not about getting into university, but I'm saying would you be less concerned about borrowing the money if you've already seen forgiveness from the executive happen or less concerned? I'm just trying to tell you that if I give you that, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get student universities running up fees. They raise fees consistently, and now that students are less cautious about borrowing, why wouldn't they? Colleges don't have a fiduciary duty to their students. They can do that anyway. Yeah, so what? Yeah, but they keep doing it. But how much they give away in loans? And if the Department of Education doesn't change the amount they give in loans... But they always increase the amount that they give. As long as you're going to a certain... As long as you're going to a certain responsibility or not. Isn't that... Could that not be in response to colleges lacking fiduciary responsibility to students? I mean, you keep saying fiduciary responsibilities. That usually applies to the shareholders. The students are customers. It's not an applicable term. Okay. All right. I'm just saying. So what you're doing is you're juicing demand. That's what all this federal government policy is. When you increase Pell Grants, you juice demand. And there's a name for this when it comes to universities. It's called the Bennett Hypothesis. All this does is cause tuition to go up because the universities increase the tuition in response to it because they absorb the costs. And by the way, we have entire industries. We have phony, like they're called for-profit colleges, but they're basically designed to extract money from Pell Grants or from the GI Bill. And their tuition always costs that exact same amount. And they're not even accredited institutions that take advantage of these increases. So you have entire business models that... That's why they've cracked down on for-profit colleges. Part of the Biden policy, actually, one of the rounds of the whole student loan forgiveness thing was to crack down on for-profit universities that were scamming people, basically. That was a separate thing where there was a lawsuit that was called debt forgiveness a couple months before this. There have been a few concerted efforts, both at the congressional level and in the presidential administration that have cracked down on for-profit colleges. And it's been sort of a sustained effort since, I want to say, like 2015 to do so. So it's not just something that just happened. I bought this in the room with us right now. I do want to also say that the Pell Grant recipients, most of them come from families that make 60K or less. So I think giving a 20K forgiveness to people who are recipients of Pell Grants, I think that's a good thing. I think that's going to be beneficial. Well, it's people who borrowed money that received Pell Grants while they were going to university. And the people who get Pell Grants come from families that make a less than $60,000. Because you get significantly less. Because in order to qualify for Pell Grants, you have to basically no money. Mm-hmm. And I think it's a good thing. But that's when they went to university. They're getting it now post-graduate. That's fine. I think that they should. I think that giving them that 20K in forgiveness is a good thing. They're better off now than people who didn't go to college that still live in those circumstances. And they're not better off. They're not better off than people who didn't come from the backgrounds that they came from. Right? They could be. Who care? Like we're just this is not only this is not only politically popular. It's also an economic boom. I mean, the people that now don't have as much debt burdening them. That's giving them a chance to finally like save money to buy a house to start a business, to like do all these things that they've been putting off that we've seen. No. And this isn't me like talking like this is what every major, no, but it's true. We're coming in and out of this. That's listen. They were just 10K away from. No, but listen. Like no, but having the amount of people to pay on a monthly basis, that is going to be reducing having. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Start a secret. Is it is it correct? And when I say that's like, oh, 10K away. I'm also saying that that reduces their monthly payment. And when you're thinking about when how people budget like month to month, they're looking at what they can afford. That is massive. Does it, does it solve their like racial wealth gap? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Yeah. And my point is, is that like black people were poor before, during and after this forgiveness and something that I think we need to do, especially for black people who want to go into college to better themselves because that's the lie that we told black people for over five decades is that we have to have jobs that are there after they're out of college that can actually help go towards their debt. And it's like, again, like I'll circle back to it. It's like I'm all for people going and getting degrees into humanities, but the federal government can't act like those, those humanities degrees are going to pay their bills. And they keep lying to the black people about that. Where it's like, hey, get philosophy. Yeah. Sure. But again, I would still argue that people who are recipients of the Pell grants, right? These are people who are regardless of what degree that they get. If they get a degree in STEM or they get a degree in something else, more likely going to be in a worse position than somebody who didn't need that Pell grant. And there are people who come from families who are not making that much money. They're going to be behind on a lot of different factors. And I think that 20K forgiveness and then having the amount that they have to pay per month is a massive difference in their lives. They're going to be able to put away a little bit more money. You'd probably be better off with Pell grants. If you go to a state school, it basically covers like the entire tuition. Like if you receive the Pell grant. All right. Nah, so I got a Pell grant that didn't cover shit. I didn't cover shit. And I went to school in 2010. Did you get a full Pell grant? Yeah, I got a full Pell grant. What school? Did you go in-state to a state school? I went in-state to a state school. And my Pell grant didn't help pay for all this. And what was the tuition at your state school? I'm not going to, I had to look at it. Can you say really that? I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I got the full benefit. Yeah. Well, I want to know. I want to know what, I want to know the super expensive state school. I want to know what it is. I live in New Jersey. My school, our schools are expensive as fuck. The state schools? What school was it? I'm not going to tell my state. He doesn't have to dox himself. I think it's fine. It's not doxing yourself to say what university you went. It's gish galloping. It's done. I'm a public individual and my handle is my name. I'm not going to tell you where I went to school. I tell people where I went to school at the time. I'm not going to tell you what I don't do for you. We're especially sensitive when I talked about the food supply running out. Why were you so sensitive when I mentioned the food supply running out? Who was sensitive? Are you listening to the conversation? I don't think he is. Honestly, I think he's just sitting there and he's, he's like, I don't know. He's watching YouTube on one screen and then when he decides here, he can come back in here. And I'm prepared. I'm prepared to 1v9 everyone. My argument here is that your argument is fucking stupid. There aren't nine people in the Your argument is fucking stupid. It literally doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter. Wait, I have to do it like I have to go to the side. When you're getting into the nitty gritty of all these things. You're not addressing the more fundamental crisis which is at the heart of how the U.S. dollar lacks any qualitative value anymore. So I feel like there's a more fundamental problem here from the supply chains to the inflation to the food crisis that we're now facing. Where did you get your eloquent layup? Why are we talking about these pressing issues? Because you're the things I get. No one addressed my, what I said. No one addressed. Did you buy the art behind you? What is the time scale of the relevance of what do you consider this a W for buying? Did you buy the art behind you? What is the time scale of relevancy of student debt loan forgiveness? Is that months? Is that years? Because I'll tell you if you tell me where I can get that lamp with an elephant on it. So do you think two years from now this debt forgiveness is going to make a difference in people's lives? Well, the earth's going to be blown up as you said. Like it's all going to collapse. So like no, it's all going to be fun and game. Okay, one year from now. Let's dial it to one year. One year from now. Do you think the student loan forgiveness, actually I'll do six months. I plan on being a warlord. Six months from now. Do you think the student loan forgiveness is going to make any difference in people's lives? For the people who had their loans relieved? Yeah. I think it already has. I will actually follow up with you in six months. Pell grant, resilience, yes. John is in this call and he's happy with the debt relief. We've already got one. He doesn't even need it that much. Yeah. Endorse by Sean himself. The thing is, again, this is a very cynical. Yeah. No, it's awesome. I get to take it. This is a very cynical and immediate political ploy by Biden to get people to vote for the midterms. It's not going to fucking last much longer than that. Yeah. Obviously, everyone's happy with the inflation reduction. Everyone is happy about this right now. I'm talking long term. Aren't presidents supposed to have policies that are made with the long term in mind? Yeah. Right now, happy with. If you just throw money at people, yeah, everyone's going to be happy. But what are the long term consequences? What is the nature of the system we have? And what are the implications as far as how we feed ourselves, the actual basics of how we produce and distribute things? What are the implications for the system if we're just going to be throwing money at everything? How do we actually address this more fundamental crisis, which is we have lost any semblance of a connection between the ways we measure the economy, which is through the dollar and which is through money and through finance, and the actual underlying substantive economy itself? How do you address that disconnect? How is Biden addressed it? Trump at least tried to do that. Biden has done nothing to even acknowledge there's even a difference between the two. This might be a good opportunity to talk about whether or not Biden is uniting or dividing or perhaps neither. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle. This country, when it comes to social justice as well as relationships with Republicans in particular or MAGA people, more particularly. Yeah, well, you wouldn't have a democracy if the MAGA Republicans had their way. Okay, actually, I want to press you on that. Why is it that you think the Democrats in Biden represent something more democratic than the MAGA Republicans? Because the MAGA Republicans tried to overturn an election because they didn't like the results. They stormed the Capitol to try an election. You have the burden of censorship that we can't even discuss the details of what actually happened back then. But for hypothetically speaking, you're saying they tried to overturn it. Did they actually use the military to do that? Did they use the police? Did they actually threaten democracy in any substantive way as far as the result? It was their intention. Their chant was stop the steal. That's what they wanted to do. Okay, so they were yelling about hitting my tents. They erected gallows. The hypocrisy is baffling. This is a baffling hypocrisy. So all the fucking rioting and civil unrest after Trump was elected fair and square means nothing. But because there was a fucking protest after Biden was elected at Capitol Hill, that suddenly means that's bad over Republicans and democracy. This is baffling. What about all the restogators who wanted to overturn the 2016 election and impeach Trump because they said that Russia is the reason he got elected and that they hacked the voting machines. They kept talking about how they hacked the computers and they hacked the fucking voting machines. It's an incredible level of hypocrisy. How long did it take Hillary to concede after she lost to Trump? Okay, what does it matter? Trump conceded. Trump took a month to concede as opposed to a day. And what does it matter? How long did the Russiagate nonsense go on for? What was Russiagate about? What were the indictments that came out of Russiagate? You don't think the conclusions of Russiagate was that the Russians influenced the election. Therefore, the election is illegitimate and that Trump has to be impeached. It doesn't make an election illegitimate if foreign powers are trying to sway voters. That's not the same. Okay, well, even if Trump took a month to concede. Does Russiagate make any allegations of ballot rigging? Okay, so why does it matter if Trump takes a month to concede? Because he won't. Do you really not know why that would be a problem? Has there been a president in history that's taken that long to concede? Hold on. Hey, well, Dust, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to a loaner. Loaner, answer the question. All right, fish food. Is it suggesting that you don't believe in a case that fights for power and high bucks? Can I have an animal name? No, no, no. I want to directly acquire him on this. I'm talking about the capital. Swan, you said because it threatens the legitimacy of democracy, right? Yeah, because when you have a democracy, there's no election and you lose. It threatens the veneer. It threatens the veneer that the elections are fair and square, right? The veneer? No. So why does it matter for Trump not to concede in one month? Okay, so do you think elections don't matter? I'm asking you why it matters. It doesn't matter. No, I didn't say that. Why does Trump have to concede? Thank God you don't work in politics. Why does it take a month for him to concede? Do you think it matters? If you're telling me it doesn't matter, why can't it take a year to concede? Can you please answer the question? Why does it matter if it takes him a month to concede? Because that's not how you do democracy. If you lose, you're supposed to concede. Why not? Okay. Because it inhibits the peaceful transition of power and it sows death. No, I'm answering your question. Don't you want to answer? Loaner. Do you want me to talk about my bond? Loaner, do you defer to Maddie? No, you don't have to. Loaner, I'm a bit of an assumption. I just wasn't sure because Haas seems very worked out. When does Will Goz get to get in? So Maddie, Maddie, Maddie. Okay, whoever wants to stand in and explain why it matters. I was saying because it erodes the trust in election integrity and because it inhibits. So you don't think so? I'm not done yet. I'm answering your question. I'm not done answering your question. Haas, I'm not done answering your question. Haas, I'm not done answering your question. I'm sorry, Haas, but it just never turns out to answer. Like, I'm not done answering your question. Go ahead, Maddie, answer. Yeah, so part of it would be to erode the trust. Also, it inhibits and delays the peaceful transition of power and the idea behind the peaceful transition of power has been a cornerstone of our democracy since the beginning of our union. In fact, that's like something that we hold, that we treasure as part of, you know, how our system of government works because it shows that there's trust in the electorate and that the electorate dictates or is only the electorate are able to issue a mandate for the next sort of ruling party to come in. When you delay that, it erodes that institution. It erodes public trust in that transition of power and it sows discontent. And we saw that with Trump basically only delaying so that he could lob these like frivolous lawsuits that were all thrown out almost instantly. But I mean, it was clearly a move to like try to supersede the democratic will of the people. And like it's really obvious and it's cute that you think that it was just like him taking its time and it's like, well, he just turned in the paper late. I turned in lots of late papers. It was fine. You just asked for an extension. Oz, and you're trying to say, I guess I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're trying to basically say it's kind of bullshit, right? Well, I kind of want to respond to her. So out of that whole, out of that whole, what do you call it? Out of that whole spiel, right? Where you're wasting time. There's two points you have, right? The first point is that it undermines trust in the institutions, which Russia did way more severely than Trump waiting a month. The second thing you said is that it undermines the peaceful transition to power. But you didn't actually justify why that is. Did Trump use the military? Did Trump use the police? Did Trump actually use the organs of armed state power and the actual violence that's the basis of state power? Did he actually tap into the basis of state power? Did Trump refuse to send the National Guard? He sure did. And a lot of his advisors quit because he was proposing exactly that. Hold on. So was the National Guard sent to quell the riots after Trump was elected in 2016? Well, no, Trump, the rioting after Trump was the rioting that happened after Trump was elected didn't take place at the Capitol building. And they weren't chanting for the vice president to be hung. They hadn't erected a gallows. Yeah, they were just they were just trying to kill the president elect. They didn't erect gallows. They didn't bring zip ties. So like, hold on. Like, okay. They didn't disrupt an actual, an actual. We're talking about January 6th of democracy, right? You're a liar. I was a radical leftist at that time. Radical leftists. I must have not gotten my card in the mail. Radical radical leftists were 100 percent calling for violence against the government, against Trump. Have you done any labor or anything? Did they interrupt the democratic process? In the same way that they go into the Capitol building and interrupt what they were doing when they're counting the votes? Are they counting the votes on January 6th? They just let the peaceful transition happen. It's crazy. Wait, what? Are we talking about January 6th when they counted all the votes? Is that what you think happened? Oh, you mean when they had to go back after, like after they were evacuated because people were counting? Do you think they counted the votes on January 6th? No, no, but that was where they turned in. That's part of like that. They were so stupid. It's a certification thing. Yeah, we all know. Listen, I think it's all real. Let's argue semantics, please. I think it's really important for everybody to tell us where were you on January 6th when our republic nearly fell. I was in a car dealership. I was looking to buy a car and the guy tried to tell me at the dealership that the car that had frame damage actually wasn't a serious issue. You just get that from parallel parking. Then I looked up on the TV and I saw our republic get frame damage. Our democracy and all the democracies in the world almost fell because of the fact that we were getting frame damage. Because the 457th most violent riot in the last six months occurred. It's no big deal, guys. It's no big deal. John, do you remember? I'm so sorry for misspeaking by the way. Do you remember when Trump was our president and protested? It was just a good old fashioned mess around. Do you remember when protesters literally tried to storm the White House? I do remember that. Yeah, that was the White House. That was actually the city. That was actually where the president had to protest. Yeah, it happened for like a week. That was a danger to our democracy. That was a destruction of our democracy. When those protesters made Trump go into a bunker trying to storm Washington DC and storm the White House during the 2020 riots. Oh, my God. Oh, God, our democracy is under threat. See, it's the media's escalatory rhetoric. It's the Democratic Party and Joe Biden's escalatory. We're making a mountain out of a fucking molehill calling them insurrectionists talking about civil war. They went in there with zip ties, my dude. They erected a gallows out front. How many times have you ever chanted one or two gallows? What is that? They were chanting kill Mike Pence. Antifa anarchist call for beheadings. They called for killings. Do they? You don't know anything about the radical act. All those people protesting. Radical left. Okay, Haas, I have a question. I have a question. Haas, have you done any union organizing or like labor organizing whatsoever? Okay, like that is the most. Oh, okay, okay. So radical left is just a cute T-shirt you wear. Got it. No, I'm talking about the radical left. Why don't you move to Russia? I'm talking about the radical leftists who were at the vanguard of the protests against Trump, people that I knew personally. So I knew what these people were doing because I myself was a radical leftist. So this is all based on anecdotal information. This is all anecdotal. If you are going to sit here and deny that these radical leftists and anarchist types and all these kinds of people. The ones that you know personally. In many circumstances, we're leading the protests against Trump. If you're going to sit here and deny that they were calling for revolution and calling for overthrowing the state and killing Trump and all that kind of shit. Do you think anytime anyone yells revolution, we should take them seriously? No one takes you seriously or yell at it? But you're saying they had gallows, like a fake gallow? How many times have I seen that a left-wing protest? It was not fake, girl. It was not fake. Oh, they were really... Okay. They erected it. I think you were there, right? He's saying literally... Wait a minute. Guys, I don't care about these things outside. Right? What I care about is that people were in the Capitol. They were interrupting the Democratic process of them certifying those votes. They had to leave... The people in the building had to leave and come back at a later time. They were going through that building chanting to hang Mike Pence. I don't care what's happening outside. I think that that was very clearly disrupting. People were in there with zip ties. People have now admitted that in their sworn affidavits. And they are saying that's what they did. And they confiscated weapons, too, I believe. Yeah. Well, weapons. No, wait, wait, wait. You can try to... It's not about the level of violence. It's about the fact that they were trying to subvert an election. They were trying to overturn an election to keep... And you're saying they were doing that in the way that the leftist protesters weren't in 2016? Yeah, because the leftist protesters weren't trying to prevent certification. And I would say that if there are leftist protesters setting up actual guillotines, I don't like that either. That's a little scary, my dude. Yeah, they're venting for certification. But they're just shutting down cities because the person that got elected was someone they didn't like, right? I think you can see the difference if you talk about BLM rights. Listen. Wait, listen to Lonerbox. Well, it wasn't just the BLM rights. It was the January... Sean, in a while, I promise I'll come back. Remember the protest in Washington, D.C.? In Fred. Well, I promise I'll come back to you. I want to hear from Sean and then Lonerbox, and then we'll come right back to you in Fred. Look, at least they were protesting at the right place. They wanted to stop the certification because they didn't believe that the election results or the election laws that were changed, possibly due to COVID, were fair. So they protested the certification and they delayed it. The protest was supposed to make people uncomfortable, as said by the greatest Congresswoman ever, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Everybody who committed violence, everybody who attacked cops, everybody who was threatening people, the people that were armed to the teeth with semi-automatic or fully automatic zip ties should be arrested. They should be sentenced for their crimes and all that. But to pretend that this wasn't, again, the 493rd most violent riot in the last six months of that exact period of time is a little bit disingenuous. That's all I'm saying. And then meanwhile, the result, we had a clear to say. Hold on. What does Lonerbox? Really quick and you're proud to come right back here. Okay, like, personally, it's not about the level of violence, okay? And the fact that you keep on deflecting to that is because you don't have an analog for people breaking into the Capitol building to try and stop the results of an election. You don't have that, you don't have that one-to-one, which is why you keep on trying to talk about- Well, yeah, we just have them shutting down- That's not analogous. Because you just gave your whole spiel, please. Has you were even talking about Russiagate undermining institutions in the same way that January 6th said? What institution did Russiagate undermine trust in? Russiagate was about- The institution of American democracy that we don't trust how the elections are conducted anymore because we're paranoid about foreign actors intervening enough. Russiagate about- It's just McCarthyite. He's been scared both times. That's what Russiagate is. Was Russiagate about voting counts and ballots, or are you just trying to- Yeah, they hacked computers, is what they said. They hacked computers. That was not- No, the way it had been communicated was that they basically went in and hijacked messaging via social media targeted advertising. No, they said the election machines were backed by Russia. Okay, that's not- Yeah, they have sent your media a racial pump in that fucking story for months. Don't try to gaslight us about that. People did commit violence to try to stop Trump from being sworn in on Inauguration Day, which is in the Constitution. It's not some random law like the January 6th certification date. People try to kill Brett Kavanaugh ahead of the Roe vs. Wade decision. Somebody actually went to his house and a bunch of left-wingers were publishing his address online along with all the other people's addresses. People try to storm the White House during the Black Lives Matter riots. And then the story after that was, oh, Trump went in a bunker, which is what you do when people try to storm the White House. And then he cleared people out too rough so he could take a picture in front of a church. But yeah, the Inauguration riots, when Trump won, I guess they don't count, even though that's our sacred democratic process where the president gets sworn in. That's such a classic word about- That is not the same as certifying votes. He specifically asked for- He specifically asked for- That's not certifying votes. There's a psychologist's dream. Certifying votes is so different from like a- Yeah, one's a constitutionally mandated process. That would be the Inauguration. And then the other one is a random law from the 1800s. This was something that was being planned for a long time beforehand, and they were doing it with the explicit purpose to undermine the democratic will of the people. Like the fact that you're trying to drop false equivalents, you're like, oh, a few people, saw where he lived and like yelled outside his house. It's like, all right, Sean. I don't agree with assassination attempts. Does that make you happy? Did you forget the guy with the gun that went there to kill him? Look, I don't- Hey, hey, hey. I don't agree. I don't agree with assassination attempts. I don't agree with violence on political people. That being said, I'd still think the severity of people going in and preventing people from certifying votes and making people fear for their lives and have to evacuate and have to come back later is still much more severe than anything we've seen. Do I think that excuses anything from before? No, obviously not. But I still would say that it was wrong. Yeah, they shouldn't have gone in. Anybody who committed violence should be arrested. Saying it's wrong is different from saying that MAGA somehow poses more of a threat to democracy than Biden, especially when you consider that they use January 6th as an excuse to curtail even more of our democratic civil society and our democratic freedoms such as the new president of calling American citizens domestic political terrorists and also the new president of ramping up big tech censorship and ramping up our ability to voice- You know, in his speech, he talked about mainstream Republicans. And I actually really like that speech because I remember as somebody- You know, you put my hat in the DC area. He's demonizing- He's demonizing half the country Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I wasn't finished speaking. You have a democracy. He was demonizing half the country. Can I finish? Here's the rest from Star and then we'll come out over to you. I think, you know, I think it's really nice that he talked to- I mean, there's a difference between- There's a fringe group of extremists, right? And there's a difference between the mainstream Republican. And I think that was a really nice thing that he said because I remember somebody who grows up in the DC area. When we would meet up people with people of all sorts of different political backgrounds and we would all go to the same bar and watch the same debate and we might disagree with each other but we still all got hammered and we still all like enjoyed the same thing. So I think it was a really nice speech because he talked about that bipartisanship that there are mainstream Republicans that he works with that there are plenty of Republicans and it is not the majority Republicans that are these fringe extremists. He talks about there are Republicans that he can work with and that work with us. And that's important. We need to restore that again. I miss it. I miss when we used to be able to do that. Days when there was bipartisan consensus for the slaughter of one million Iraqis and everyone can go to bars and get hammered and have fun. But we're living in the real world right now and when you're talking about how Biden's talking about mainstream Republicans who are a tiny minority of Republican electorates when you're talking about the Lincoln Projects, tools and these rhinos. I'm not talking about Lincoln Project. Routinely mocked and moderate Republicans are the majority of Republicans. No, they're not. The majority of Republicans are the box behind Trump. Like half of them are. Trump and Republican Party are all but different. That's right now. All of these rhinos like Liz Cheney, they're just Democrat tools. They have nothing to do with the Republican electorate that as evidenced by the actual. How do you vote Republican? What? Do you vote Republican? In 2024, just to spite people like you, I may personally just vote for Trump. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And you know what? I think it's great that that Biden extended this all branch. Trump hasn't done that. I don't think he's done that a single time towards the Democratic Party. I mean, he's done that a single time to anybody who's still left of him. And he's done actually, if anything, he's he's fractured more people within the Republican Party than he's even brought together people in his own party. I mean, that's why the infrastructure bill happened. There were like 13 Republicans were brawn. Yeah, that was a bipartisan act, but they made concessions and they got 13 Republicans on board. Yeah, the wireless infrastructure. Infrastructure and the Inflation Reduction Act was also... Yeah, that's infrastructure. That's like roads, buses, trains. That's like real physical things. They're made of steel and you like that shit. They make, it's making things. The infrastructure bill, the infrastructure bill was a completely disorganized mess. It was all given to these unaccountable private contractors. I thought you love roads. And it's just the infrastructure bill was a nothing worse than it was. Don't you like cement? Okay. I don't think it results of anything in the next 10 years from that infrastructure. I love it. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure. I don't know, man. Like, Democrats don't have content under politics. So it's like, we know how somebody like Donald Trump is going to navigate. And I think that something that Joe Biden is really serious in trying to like do whatever and like pretend how to govern is actually like demanding Democrats to have content and clarifying the fight for Democrats. I think that like the one thing that you can give credit to Republicans is that you don't need to guess how they're going to navigate in the face of things like the Dobs decision or in the face of CR, CRT and public schools. Like they have a clear mission. They have a clear goal. So I think it's totally expected that Republicans are just going to ignore portions of the left because they understand they don't have a share of fate with each other. So it's like, why would you appeal to people that know the same goals as you, the share of same fate? So I think there seems to be more of that energy for Democrats personally. James, I just want to let you know I got 10 more minutes. You better we're going to jump into the Q&A. I want to say thanks very much for your questions, folks. We're going to cruise through these as fast as we possibly can. Before we do, I want to say all of our guests are linked in the description. What are you waiting for? If you want to learn more about their views, you certainly can. You've already gotten kind of a sample of their positions. Now go ahead and click those links, and that includes if you're listening via the podcast, we put our guest links in the description box there too. So this one coming in from, do appreciate your question. The legend Rives says you can't have job numbers increase as unemployment increases. Speak to economists that warned and predicted the economic crisis like Peter Schiff. Any thoughts? I prefer economists like Joseph Stiegler and Paul Krugman who tend to take a more like a larger macroeconomic look and that kind of like post-Keynesian, like modern approach, I don't know. And they all kind of, like they're modeling of what we've been doing to sort of balance the economy coming out of COVID. It makes sense. And like they've been pricking for a long time that it was going to see a brief rise in inflation. But that happens when you see a gigantic dip overall economically. So You got it. The legend Rives says the etymology of inflation means an expansion, usually currency expansion. Weimar, Zimbabwe, Argentina, Liberia, fractional reserve banking is the cause. Any disagreements? Otherwise we'll go to the next one. I mean, is that the idea that we just can't do any stimulus ever? No, it depends on where you put your stimulus. Like you can put your stimulus into production that increases the supply of a good that reduces its price. Like it's not, it's not just every time the government starts spending more money, you get like an inflation crisis. Fractional reserve banking is? Haas, are you asking because you don't know? This one coming in. No, because fractional reserve banking is not just stimulus. Just so you, it's not stimulus. I don't know why you think they're the same. Well, we've had fractional reserve banking for how long now? Yeah, it's when the banks don't only have to keep so much in their deposits. And they can like spend more than and they can loan out more. Yeah. So why did you say that? It's one of the levers that the Fed. You could have stimulus if you had like a national bank or something. Why are you saying that? That means you can't have any stimulus. That was the before that, they were talking about inflation and talking about Weimar and Zimbabwe and shit. It's always that same, like, yeah, but they're saying that was one entire policy. Yeah, the fractional reserve banking is a completely different thing than that. Then just we don't have time to explain this to Haas. Let's move on. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Cameron Hall, great. I appreciate it. This came up on Twitter. I saw it trending thoughts on Biden's gun control plans for the future. Anybody? Obama is going to stop restricting the citizens. Sorry. Oh, sorry. Go for it. Fuck Joe Biden. There's gun control. It's part of the long march against our democracy and trying to undermine our democracy. Got you, Joe. No, fuck Joe Biden and his and his gun control legislation. Like, listen, like there's problems with guns and we can recognize that, but you're going to you're going to run out of guns to restrict and people who look like me are still going to blast each other. So you're going to actually, actually like, look at the conditions that people are under instead of just thinking you can ban AK-47 your way through it. Maddie. I think overall is positive with some gun control. I think there's a lot of evidence that suggests that it could prevent a lot of tragedies and mass shootings. But I think Joe is correct in saying that, like, expecting this to be something that solves the complete problem without addressing the underlying reasons why people turn to violence is we're still going to see a prevalence of violence. But I think it's a good start. Like, didn't that didn't that didn't that make it from Japan get blasted by some like fallout shit? He made a gun. People will make the means that they need to commit violence on others. That was that was a G.I.Y. gun. And you know what? More power. Should we love a crafty assassin? Anybody else? I think the tweet I saw said taking away assault rifles. What do I maybe I'm wrong. Does anybody know what that refers to? I mean, it's a vaguely divine set of defined set of features that make up assault rifles where guns that are functionally the same that may be missing a pistol grip or a type of scope or whatever are legal. But if they have those then they become illegal. I haven't seen the specifics of his policy. I'm sure I would dislike it, but you know, I can't really comment until I look it over. Yeah, man. I'm from Jersey. We are a silo when it comes to gun control and niggas still get blasted every day. So we're going to have to start approaching this a different way. But you know, hey, if I want to do that to appease his soccer mom liberals in Boston drinking their five Starbucks a day, then have at it. I guess that's his base. In Boston, it would be Dunkin Donuts. But anyways, I sure they they call it the D, right? There's some shit out. And do you see this alcohol? And in San Francisco, it's kombucha. The legend says the Inflation Reduction Act is inflation itself. The student loan forgiveness will cause more dollars chasing fewer goods in the market. I think we need to look at the broad results of these policies, right? I am willing to give you guys, sure, like the ACR, I believe. Is that what I called it? The ACR, you know, obviously contributed in some ways to inflation. Sure. But I think the benefits that we get out of it are something I'm willing to have that trade off for. Same thing with the student loans. I think that cap on this on the income that people make with how much they have to pay back. I think that's excellent. And even the Inflation Reduction Act that like, dude, I'm going to coom at the Inflation Reduction Act. OK, I think that one's so awesome. I think that they put in investments for climate and they put investments for health in there. Also, have we mentioned that Biden has invested more into crime prevention than any president in history? Based, based as luck. Yeah, I mean, for the student loans, we went over it. All this is going to do is incentivize more borrowing, faster increases in tuition. So if you are eligible for the money, take it. Don't pay back more money to the federal government on principle. Take it if they're giving it out. They're robbing you anyway if you don't. But don't expect this to do anything because nothing has changed in the system. It's just another corrupt incentive in the system in terms of the cost of college going up, going forward. It's going to go up faster now and people are going to be less responsible. You know what, Pell Grant recipients, they're going to be getting that 20K in forgiveness and that's going to be great for them because they really need that. Yeah. If you want to look at. I mean, I mean, but it's still an improvement in something. I mean, I mean, I'm sure that's what they're also going to be getting 20K. Like now we'll still be poor. Like, oh, yeah, we'll still be poor. I don't really need that 20K in forgiveness. Like, oh, take a raise. Again, their their parents didn't make money when they went into college. That doesn't mean they're broke now. And so I don't think that you don't think that, that, that, that generational yeah, wealth carries over. We, we know it does that. This is something that is, that is going to affect people who, who maybe didn't have the same starting point as others. And I think that's excellent. So if you made smart choices and you went to cheaper in state schools and you commuted and you got Pell Grants, you're like, you think that you think it's just like if you were not a kid, even Joe pushed back on this one. You're likely better. That was cheaper in my state, Doug. That was John. I did look up Jersey 2010 tuition. It's not that bad. Like you can look up the tuition right now by due to our state schools. Well, I looked up 2010 because that's when you said you went. It's price. It's, it's definitely pricier compared to the national average, but it's still not that bad. It's still the best option. Look, I think it's, niggas are getting Toyota educations and we're not here paying for testing. I don't know. Just one problem. Like I hate to do this, but we just, we do have so many questions though. The legend says, follow a basket of goods used in the 1980s and today, real inflation is above the currently used CPI or consumer price index. Price index. Thank you very much. And then said, the Baskin commission rejiggered the consumer price index. What the fuck does rejiggered mean? How much did he pay for that? I want to know. I think there's a slur. It is, it is a word, but it's, it's on the it means like recombobulated, like re reorganized. They tweaked it, they tweaked it, they changed the inputs. Nobody repeat that word. Nobody repeat it. I don't want to hear it again. It's just like not a good word. It's because there's a problem with the word. It's a garbage word. I've never been so uncomfortable in my life. You can recognize it, we change the consonant of that word. It gets a little weird, but I've never. No, it gets very weird. It gets very weird, very strange. And let's never go there again. Nobody would repeat that word. It's just a garbage word. Oh my gosh. That word is trash. It's cute. Follow a basket of goods used in the 80s and today. Real inflation is above the currently used CPI numbers. The Baskin commission reorganized the consumer price index. Listen. Why are you repeating it? Why are you repeating the word? Tampered with the CPI. Listen, like the CPI, it has always been questionable, but part of the reason it's questionable is because it's often very inflationary and it doesn't take into account the changes in products over time. If you say a TV costs like the same amount that it costs in 1980, therefore there's no inflation, that actually could be indicative of increase in value because TVs are so improved over time that it's almost a completely different product. They take that into consideration. I'm tired of hearing you speak, Sean. I would like you to switch out with the skeleton in the background. Oh, yeah. What does he have to say? He's dead. The famous skeleton. This is coming up. The legend ribs. I didn't mean it. I was joking. I'm sorry. Labor force. Part to see is the percentage of the civilian non institutional population, 16 years and older that is working or actively looking for work. Oh, I think they meant. Okay. Labor force participation is the percentage of the civilian non institutional population, 16 and older that's working or actively looking for work. Correct. Then LFP doesn't measure unemployed people who are underemployed marginally attached to the workforce and have given up looking for work getting jobs. Yeah. Oh, it's a major problem. It's a major problem, especially when in like economic terms that you we don't have like a basic unit to capture all of that because then how do you measure the strength and health of an economy if you're not seeing the full picture? This one coming in from do appreciate your question as well. Says we have a 5% savings rate. U6 numbers today matching the 70s. 11 week straight declines in markets. Biden and Congress will get blamed for this. I mean, they're going to blamed any for anything anyway. So this one from the legend Riv says in response to Ukraine CBS and amnesty confirmed Ukraine is not tracking the weapons given by NATO, aka the U.S. Ukraine is also used for sex trafficking. So is the United States. I mean, do you know how many do you know? Have you seen the women in Ukraine? I mean, come on, like, you know, that's really gross and yikes and also big yikes. Okay. This one from the legend Riv says watch Bernie to the woodshed made by Ryan Dawson. He explains how colleges borrow money cheap and lend it at a higher premium department of education and college benefit from such low interest rates. Fans of Ryan Dawson. All right, this one from legend Riv says go to the 1714 minute mark on the economist Peter Schiff's podcast to understand the student loan crisis materializing. You need to understand this folks. I invested a lot of money for you to expand your economic understanding in these super chats. I hope you read them all. James, why are people giving us homework? Okay. I think we're going to have to like listen, they want to pay for my college again to go back to school. I'll gladly do the homework. This one from Noah's Ark, Kansas says is it private or public debt? Who paid the initial loan origination? Who is going to repay that loan is bad debt and additional loss for taxpayers? Are the recipients at least vaxed? When you I know the federal government actually does make money off of the student loan program. So I'm assuming it's a dip in the revenue going to the federal government. Yeah. I mean, no one really asked these questions when we do blanket forgiveness on like PPP loans. It's awesome to mention. Sorry. It's also not to mention the fact that like if this is these are loans that maybe people weren't going to pay back for a long time, but now it's in their pockets and they can spend in their local economies. It's not like the government is just like sapped it completely. It's just the PPP. Like they could also get they could sorry, they could recoup a lot of that. Those funds by thinking about well, a larger percentage of people's income is now being put back into the economy via consumption and that accrues, you know, whether it's sales tax, whether it's whatever whatever else. So in a way that that calculus goes into play when they're determining how it's going to pay for itself is because it then generates a lot more in terms of consumption and economic output. The PPP loan is the most horrible comparison I've ever heard in my entire life. The government shut down the economy. So they basically gun to these businesses head, shut them down and then offer them with the terms that if they followed the rules then the loan would be forgiven at the point of origin. So all the government's doing in that case is following the terms as written. And again, they screwed over the businesses to put them in that position in the first place. Yeah. As for student loans, the terms where you were to pay them back, the people who borrowed and went to college are better off than the people who didn't. So you're changing the terms after the fact for people on student loans and you're comparing it to the PPP because people are like, the businesses versus students. It's like, no, they're completely different programs and they were given out under different circumstances. When you view it a standpoint of what is going to benefit the economy overall in terms of economic output, in terms of new businesses started in terms of just overall general well-being, they have a lot of similar intents and that's why the comparison is drawn because we're looking at if you want to look at, oh, well, they as long as they play by the rules, they get it forgiven. Well, the same could be said for people that took out student loans saying, well, if you play by the rules, if you go to school and do this, then you'll get a good job. And if you get the good job, then you can pay back your loans. But we know that that hasn't been the case. Even for people who are in the supposedly more lucrative careers is that that promise very much was not delivered on. So in a way, I like how Joe had kind of drawn a comparison to it being like a class action lawsuit sort of saying, yeah, you know what, we promise one thing, we done fucked up. Like, we need to show some restitution for that. So no, I think it's actually really great. You're saying the borrowers the borrowers didn't live up to their terms just because as a borrower you had these fanciful notions about what your career would be able to produce in terms of income. Doesn't mean that the loan provider is responsible for that. You should look into this before you borrow money. We can recognize that we can recognize that Democrats lied to young adults and saying that like the way you reach financial prosperity is to get a house and the way you reach the financial prosperity to get a house is to get an education. We can recognize that Democrats lied to people on that and maybe just maybe we should try to do something to make sure that like we wreck the like the government recognizes that level of fraud and like I don't know man. Yeah that's what I was. Coming in from the legend Rives says don't read one economic philosophy side of Marx and Keynes. Am I pronouncing it right? Says yeah Keynes. Thank you. Read also the Chicago School and the Austrian school then see which one reflects humanity and they said I'd love to come on for a discussion. Legend Rives you'd be happy to have you so thank you very much. Email me at modernatedbate at gmail.com Noah's Arkanza says I parentheses she her got two master's degrees in feminist emotional intelligence rhetoric. Aren't you ignorant for thinking my debt shouldn't be paid by other people through forced additional tax allocation. I'm saying it whatever that was so funny whatever that fancy degree the individual said that's my degree. That's my degree. Cause I'm a woman. Listen like all those people with their fancy the joke was about the gender studies degree not about women. Do you get it? Yeah all those people with their all those people it's a joke about being a woman because that's what Haas said. All of those fancy people with those gender studies degrees we should probably recognize that hey you know they can't participate in the they can't participate in the market the same way so we gotta figure something out whether it be through job guarantees within the program or something. Also yeah also I'm just looking at the career pays before you borrow money for it if it doesn't make sense don't do it. It doesn't make sense no need to grieve my guy. It really doesn't. If you borrow Wait lower boxes you're trying to say something. If your total debt is less than your salary you're in a good position to pay off your student loan. Is your is your total debt less than your salary my dude? Yeah it was significantly less than myself. Was or is was or is. Well I paid it off so. But how that when you first graduated but I only but I only borrowed two grand because I was somehow capable of making my own decisions assessing risk. Maybe you should have been good at sports like I was. I wonder how I was able to do that. I went to school for free because I was good at sports. Maybe you should try harder. Sounds like you just were trying hard enough. I don't need your congratulations. Is that was that like a point? I just want to say I'm good at Voter box. What are your thoughts on this? Sports I mean most of the reason that sports exists on the college level are you really taking this because of title nine if you really want to make that because they make money you have to counter battle. It's because we make money. If you want to really get into it. It's because we make the money. It's because we're profitable. You should love it. It's because some sports teams are profitable. Don't you love money? It's all fired by federal law. Don't you love anything? Don't you love money? Hold on. Let's hear from Voter box. Don't you love money? I mean I just wonder how much of a systemic issue this is. It's still the case in the United States that if you have a four year degree you'll earn more than someone who doesn't. So I just wonder like how many of these degrees are going to be like these dead end don't pay back fucking ballet degrees? It's not true. It's just they're not. It's like not true. Hold on. Hold on. We can recognize like if you sorry to cut you off there but we can recognize that like there's a lot of people who get degrees in gender studies and don't even use that degree for shit. What would it be for English art history when have you? My and my argument is that we got to make sure that there are jobs available for these people who get these degrees. And if there's not a job available for these degrees and we got to put that punishment on the school they shouldn't be having degrees that just essentially lie to students to say hey if you go into this degree program and you do this program there's going to be a job for you. That should be a guarantee from the school and if they can't guarantee from that then I think the loan should be forgiven for the student. The school has to guarantee the job. That's absurd. Oh, that's only if you think. Whenever you get into the fucking gender studies argument it's like okay how do you action this like to not be an issue? Yeah. Also I know people who are gender gender studies majors that ended up like getting really good. Like I don't know maybe if like overall you're like oh yeah it's not applicable but the like just because you specialize in a specific area you're building skill sets beyond that discipline. So I think anything I think anything that can anything about gender what? What do you even need to look? What is? We don't have time to explain the whole thing to you right now. So if we could just move on. Listen, I think that like any degree that put you in a position in your parents is a treat. Oh my god. This is never had it. This dude has no female interaction if he's going to be flirting. Nicky. Don warranted sexual attention from the court. I got married. Sorry. This one she just got married. He was close though at right. That's what Nicky says. Thanks for your super sticker. Chris Moorlach says Star Snake. Oh a new one. Oh. Says Star Snake, Loner, Maddie and Sean represent the source of all of our problems. Politics that support the establishment Joe L. Restores my faith in American pragmatism. If Haas and Joe could work together, we have a chance. Black power. Welcome to the tribe, my brother. How's it feel? Yeah. How's that chain, Haas? Whale snake. Whale snake. Whale snake. Can I actually see your chain? Like. Maddie's snake. Come on. Chat wants it. Chat wants whale snake. Whale snake. Me and Joe will never end up like cuckolds. Like Maddie's haas, but never. Next up. This one. How dare you. No one's our... That's because Haas is never going to get laid. So. You can be my cup of haas. Great example of female female communication. I don't understand what they mean. This one from the Legend Rizz says check out corn pops revenge on Rumble to see if Biden is winning best documentary on Biden contributing to the division we see today. America. How did these seem like promotions of like things that we need to go see? It's the same guy. It says America will have major recessions who will win. I meant secession. Namely, I think they're saying that is it true that California or Texas are going to break off and go on their own? Is that what they mean? Texas has it written into their constitution actually that if like they have a certain vote they can technically split off or they can split into five different states. So. All right. I'll accept. I'll accept tree. I'll accept. How about this? I'll accept Texas leaving if they takes that and I own with them. I'll be totally down for that. This is a few states have secession in their constitution. It's not going to happen. I mean, there was a whole war about this. I forgot what it's called. I think I think. Listen, I'm saying leave. I'm saying they want to leave leave. You'll you'll learn the power of the United States government the hard way. Oh, it was called the Vietnam War. Can they take Florida? Please. This is a problem. No. Was our Kansas says DC Mayor Bowser refused NG troops in letter to Honorable Rosen McCarthy Miller in letter dated January 5th, 2001. Read the letter. Trump did that. Fake fake news. Trump did it. 2001. That was like 50 years ago. Did I say that? Sorry. 2021. That was my mistake. They said 2021. Is it true? Is this I think Bowser was like partly to blame for it, but I guess it doesn't take the big blame away from the guy who kept saying the election was fake and didn't do anything when people broke it. They're really, yeah. I just need to say real quick. There is a there is a like wave of people shouting whale snake into the chat box and M.D.D. And I will not let people ignore what the people are saying the people have been chanting whale snake, whale snake and James, I got to push back on you. You may be wanting to to suppress the whale snake, the power of the whale snake, but you can't do it. Is it a whale snake? Just an eel? Doing that. No, no, I'm not. There are plenty of other people in there doing it. That's something I would do. This isn't an eel, like a whale snake, like a moray, you know what? Continue. This one from Aloysia says, you can't have a valid vote under duress. This is nonsense. What? This one from Cade McDermott. I am genuinely beyond happy to hear Sean say that live. American frame damage. Yes, frame damage is very serious. This one from Noah's Ark, Kansas strikes again, says who is Ray Ups? How many glow boys were at the Capitol the day before and the day of? Who planted the quote unquote pipe bombs? And Fred, you know something about this? The way the FBI was instigating that whole thing, the way the FBI is being politicized right now, and it's clear it serves the Democrats agenda. We didn't even get into the fucking glowy shit surrounding the J6. The FBI director was appointed by Trump. Christopher Ray was. There's there's nothing suspicious about Ray Epps at all, you know, him calling for violence on video twice, day before and day of, and not facing charges, not suspicious. I'm like, don't worry about it. No big deal. And if this happens to increase the government's power against American citizens labeling them domestic terrorists. Oh, totally not glowing. Totally not at all. Move to Russia, please. But in all seriousness, I think that Ray Epps is probably like an informant, like we saw involved in the Whitmer plot, which, you know, you could say you think is legitimate, like they thought they were going to do violence, so they wanted people on the inside to testify. Or you could say that they were instigating it. I'll leave that up to you guys. This one from thanks very much for your question. Ms. Miruzzi says, why does Sean think that fiduciary duties only apply to shareholders when they can be applied to lawyers, doctors, accountants, and numerous other relationships? Sure, they could. Like, yeah, you're like, if you if you see a finance guy that's advising you on certain investments, he may or may not have a fiduciary responsibility. So it's just usually it's in a different context than the customer. Like in in my my opinion, but whatever, it's fine. I feel like that's the case in the UK as well. Like the reason that we can't just push fees up, like indefinitely in the UK is because like the first of all the government caps the amount that you can loan to each student. And also just that, yeah, there are certain like limits placed by, I guess in America would be on a state level, you'd have to do that. But yeah, that there's like a certain basically so that a university isn't just like a like a money chugging machine. Well, the the states, the states and their state schools and city schools and all that, like they'll probably have similar restrictions that to what you're talking about where the increases are decided by a board or by the state legislature or the city council, depending on who's running this particular institution. But there's a bunch of private institutions and, you know, they can raise their, they can raise their tuition or whatever. And a lot of people go to private institutions and there's a lot of prestigious ones that people want to go to. Well, apparently states apparently states don't have have it either, though. Someone said, like, I don't know. Unilaterally. Okay. It varies from my institution, like for community colleges, it's the state board of ed. My school had a board of trustees and they determined tuition the whole thing. Yeah. And then there's also a bit more complication because the schools are largely funded by the state, but they also receive some federal funding depending on programs and other things. So it's a bit more convoluted. This one from Alyosha says, would the January 6th people have gotten away with it if they had just set St. John's on fire again? No, they believe the wrong political thing. So if they would have attacked the same church, then it would have been considered a national incident. I mean, there's a reason that Biden was able to run on Charlottesville while there were Black Lives Matter riots happening every single day. Any thoughts? Anybody? Which one of those protests were they screaming to gas the K-words? Oh, yeah. Which one was the out of BLM in Charlottesville? What did Trump have to do with Charlottesville? Which one were they chanting? The Jews will not replace us. Yeah. Which one was that? This is the longest through BLM. What did Trump have to do? They were chanting the Jews will not replace us. Which one was that again? That's all fucking glowy shit that the fucking government puts you into this. The only glowy here is Haas, okay? Yeah, you glow as shit, girl. This was from... Plumbing 005 says Sean killing the one versus four concerning student debt. So hard. He's almost convincing me to turn down the 10K I'm going to get. Don't turn it down. Take the money. You're paying the federal loans to the government. Just take it. I firmly disagree with this. Anything that Andrew Tate told me and taught me through watching his content is that the grind never stops. I think that they have to add the things that I owed and put it back on. The grind never stops. I hope that he decides to do even a higher amount. Add more. I'll just deny it. The grind never ends. That's the gigachat. That's the gigachat angle. Don't be a soy. This one from Lone Shdo says Haas, your view on Eastern Orthodoxy. Are you Eastern Orthodox now? Are you a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church? No. I think that's a Russia joke. Oh, okay. This one from Alyosha says this the student loan bailout was corporate welfare for bloated predatory universities. But hey, we bailed everyone else out. So whatever. The loan program is welfare for the universities, but and so are all the guarantees, but the bailout probably not. This one from Alyosha says housing was a much bigger part of the measure of inflation under Volcker. We are flying blind. Yeah, that's that's fair. Like the housing crisis should be given a lot more weight in terms of measuring our true like economic health and outlook. This one from Brian W. Says I like Haas. So get or don't get me wrong, but I would like to ask why he's so angry. I think it overpowers the point you are trying to make Haas. Um, mainly because, you know, I just I'm going to be honest. I don't like my opponents in this panel right now. I actually know who they are and I don't like any of them. So that's why what do you mean? You know who they are. You mean like crazy. Like one box of where does that? I don't like them. This one really has a has a no like you for me. Basically. Yeah, I thought you were buddies. Who Maddie just thirsts after me like every few weeks or whatever. You know, she's married. Like I don't know anything weird. You know, it's weird. It's weird that Haas always is like commenting on like, on like, you know, I never make any comments on your body. Haas. So I think it's a little creepy that you're making comments on my body. I talk about his body. This one from do appreciate your question. Brian W. Says I like Haas body. He my body out of your mouth. Haas. Comments about your body. I'm making comments about your mass. This one coming from. And yeah, my mass relates to my body, Haas. And I get it. You like fat chicks, but I don't appreciate it. You're that you're talking this way about me. Okay. You can wish you were as fat as me. You wish you were as as girthy as me. You will never be as girthy as me, Haas. You will never be as girthy as me. It's dope. But the next one to the moon says, Sean, I says, Sean, thank you very much for bringing awareness to the Asian hate crimes happening in certain Democrat states. You're welcome. How do you like them apples, Maddie? Oh, it'll be fine. Trust me. This one from to the moon. It says Maddie is the girl that gets assigned to your group project in class. Doesn't do anything besides talk like a succubus and feints racism. A succubus. Yeah, we don't hear that succubus. Succubus is supposed to be hot. I don't think was that a compliment? Are they saying I'm pretty? Haas prefers his succubus is to be girthy. I thought that's true. I'm not nearly girthy enough. Sorry, Maddie, but that's OK. You're beautiful in your own way. You're gorgeous and Haas can like fucking shut it. This one. Well, I don't want to look. I stop. Keep my girth out of your mouth, Haas. I've had enough of it. It's really fucking creepy. I'm creeped out by it, Haas. Stop talking about my body and my girth. Stop it. We know we get that you're in love with her. Just let it. You've got to let it go. You've got to let it go. The LAO just says this one says make the schools co-sign the loans one and done. Thoughts? Would this work? What? Cloting schools accountable for the fact that they need to make sure they're. I think the real problem here is that Stardust chair didn't co-sign her weights. Like, really, dude? Are you going to wait? Are you going to wait? Let's go down. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Haas, are you suggesting that you be my chair instead? No, thank you, Haas. I don't want you to be my chair. No, thank you. I don't care if you consent to being my chair. I'm not having it, Haas. Stop commenting on my body and my girth. I get it. You're jealous. You're jealous. Haas, Haas, you may someday you'll find a girthy woman to sit on your face. Today's not that day. Haas is a Sally Ocean. Today's not that day. Make the schools Well, Chad's going crazy for Will Snake right now. Raven Zero says, can you use your gender studies degree to talk your way to a manifest a fusion reactor into existence? Yeah, sure. Why not? This one coming in from neat feet says, did those who went into the weeds of student debt prove how Biden is winning? Sorry, I missed when they addressed Haas's genuine points. All I heard were snarky comments from Maddie. I added that last part. Go ahead. Thank you. I mean, we kind of addressed the whole sky is falling point, I think. But I also, I kind of came in after we did the Biden conversation, but It's hard to beat a bimbo. Doesn't increase your score. You're still a four out of 10. You must move forward. Oh, shit. In terms of our questions, I think that's it. Want to say folks, our guests are linked in the description. So if you'd like to hear more about their views, you certainly can by clicking on the links right now. And it's the end of the stream. So it kind of makes sense that you click their links. You know, you kind of migrate to their links whoever you liked most in this debate, especially if it was the first time you've ever heard of them, first time you were exposed to them. Hey, great opportunity. Learn more about their views. Want to say thank you so much to stardust, loaner box, Sean, Maddie, Joe, and even Haas. We appreciate it. It's been a true pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you panel. And we all appreciate it. See you later. Thank you. I'm going to bed. Good. I'm tired. I'm tired. Thank you. Thanks. I love you. Bye. Bye. Take care, guys. Have a great night. Super fun. See you guys. Take care. Have a good rest of your night. And folks, we are into the post-credits scene just like that. Want to say, hey, seriously, the debaters are the lifeblood of the channel. So if you, especially if it's the first time you've ever heard of them, you don't want to forget them. I mean, now is the chance to click on their links. I won't have hurt feelings if you migrate out of here. We've got about 470 people watching. You guys, thank you so much for all of your support. We're already at 214 likes, which is great. That's actually for us. Getting in the hundreds during the live stream is a great start. So want to say, hey, if you happen to still be here before you do take off, before you do click on one of our guest links, hey, might as well hit the like on the way out. Why not? It does help this channel as we, if you have not heard, are striving to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. We are passionate about modern day debate being the neutral platform of YouTube. We want this channel to grow that so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. Our values are these. We have three values that we find very important in our lives, in particular one, my dear friends. We want everybody to have a fair shot. We want to let all the chips fall where they may, let a thousand flowers bloom. In terms of arguments, natural selection will take its course. The cream will rise to the top. We believe for real that the best arguments will win and that's why we're willing to host virtually anybody. No joke. We have had some controversial people and we will have even more controversial people on in the future as well as more controversial topics and that's why we would say, hey, join us. This is just the beginning of our story. This is just the beginning of the movement. We're only small now, believe me. We're encouraged and I am thankful to you for making modern day debate. 79,000 subscribers we just hit today. That's gigantic. We're almost hitting 80,000. It's been less than four years. We appreciate all of your support. As it has been a fun four years, we usually add maybe like an average of two to three debates per week. And so I've got to say, you guys have supported us so much by doing things like hitting like. That really does make a difference. YouTube will recommend our video to more people and it's more likely that video will get ranked in terms of when people are searching for certain terms. So like if they type in Biden right now, we're more likely to have our video appear at the top of the page. It won't be in the top five slots. That's for sure. It's going to be stuff like CNN or Fox or whatever. But nonetheless, it will be a little bit higher because people hit like. That does help for real. It does. And thanks for your super chat. This one coming in from Latin American pureblood, Ultramaga deplorable moms says they challenge you modern day debate to challenge your panel to find common ground and try to get something positive accomplished. I appreciate that. That is an interesting perspective. I'm open to that. We can try to like kind of say, try to push people to say, hey, what do you agree on though? As don't get me wrong. I don't think that it has to be the case that we have to find out where people agree. I acknowledge there can be value in that. For us, we think that it's a variety of opinions as it's a good thing that people are not in echo chambers that people don't get me wrong. I don't think it's bad at all that there are channels that do essay videos. So maybe there are more left leaning or right leaning. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think it's good. It allows you to go deeper on a topic. However, in terms of these debate channels or panels, I think there's a value because people are hearing a variety of different views. That's important. That's a good thing. And so I'm open to doing that though. So I appreciate you saying that Latina American pure blood. And Alyosha says a noble competition of ideas. You can say that again. My dear friend, I completely agree with you. Thank you for saying that. I agree with it. That's what we are trying to do here. Amazing. So thank you guys for your support. I am excited. You guys, my dear friends, I almost. I appreciate it. Tioga, thanks for hitting like. Says I begrudgingly hit like. I appreciate that. As well as thank you very much for hitting like folks. We have jumped from 214 to 241. So that's a big jump in just several minutes. Want to say as well if you love controversial debates, if you love panels that cover juicy political topics. This is a great opportunity. You can always hit share. If you hit share and maybe you have a political discord you're in. Maybe you're in doobies. Famous political discord. Maybe you are in a twitch thread and you tell jokes to one another and share links to Arnold Schwarzenegger soundboard pranks like I do. Or maybe you're in a Facebook group or maybe you just have your buddies you know like Logan and Andy. Those are my buddies that I will send links to of controversial topics because I know you know there are some people like frankly most of the people in my program. I love them but like my friends in the program my PhD program that I'm in. I couldn't send them the same offensive links that I send Andy and Logan. Because Andy and Logan I know I can send virtually anything. They won't judge me. I encourage you share this link with your friends right now. What are you waiting for? That helps us grow and for real I have I actually check it out. I am like you know kind of a when it comes to being a you know a peeping Tom on the statistics of this channel you could say I am the ultimate peeping Tom. I am always looking in on our YouTube channel analytics for real and I have seen like you guys do share a ton of our debates so seriously we appreciate that. That really does. Word of mouth helps so much. Like old-fashioned just third-party people who say hey you know this modern day debate channel just had a controversial debate you might like it. That helps a ton. I'm serious because if I put it you know if I go on Twitter and I say this is a great debate check it out. People are like well of course you say that because you know James you run modern day debate. But if you do it seriously that helps us a ton so we appreciate that you guys have I checked on the stats I regularly check on the stats. You guys do that a ton which means a lot and SilverX has 79,000 amazing. It is amazing. I can't believe it. I never when I started modern day debate I never thought that it would grow like this but I think the reason it's grown is one by far the biggest thing is the speakers the debaters they're fantastic we appreciate them they make it fun and so all credit to them and they're linked below. What are you waiting for? You can click on their links now. The second thing though is this I think that people's values are important to them and they share our values which are as I mentioned we want to let it be a level playing field not only that but we also care that not only is it fair people can say what they want so the second value you might say is just freedom people can say what they want people have said controversial stuff yeah we got a we got a strike warning once we've actually I think for flying so close to the sun we've actually gotten by pretty well without getting in trouble with YouTube and I'm thankful for that but the other thing is in terms of that freedom where people can say what they want which I think is a good thing you might be thinking but James that's dangerous maybe it's James that's problematic what if they say something harmful or if they spread misinformation if you talk like a 45 year old woman who is afraid and constantly saying oh that's dangerous that's potentially harmful make the children wear their bicycle helmets if that's the kind of person you are don't worry got you covered you're welcome here too the reason is we believe that in the competition of free ideas the best arguments are going to win that makes sense isn't that only logical that's the thing sometimes people say James you platform so and so I'm so offended how could you even do this this is immoral this is immoral this is so bad well I don't know is it do you think that when we host these controversial people so for example maybe we host somebody who's considered alt-right and I say to them do you think that your person who is debating them with you know if it's destiny or vosh or whoever it is I say or whoever it is I say do you think that they lost to the alt-right person and they're like well no of course not my side has better arguments than the alt-right and so I say well okay if you have better arguments what are you afraid of wouldn't that mean that the alt-right person or whoever it is that you maybe disagree with because again we don't we're not even taking a stance on the alt-right thing like it's a free platform so alt-right people are welcome to come on and debate alt-right people are welcome in the chat just like far left people are welcome in the chat and welcome to come on and debate and tifa like brenton ol brenton and tifa like we're welcome you know we welcome everybody the thing is and he's like wow James okay even though my side has the better arguments than the bad guy that you platform James you know I'm still bothered you know I'm bothered because maybe they're you know they're going to win people over because they're more attractive you know they're handsome or you know they're good looking they're pretty or whatever or maybe they've got a good sense of humor or they just oh they're very charismatic and they you know they use this figurative language and they're just so charming and oh they did charisma oozing out of their ears like Robert Redford the thing is the research is very clear on this logical arguments are more persuasive than more peripheral factors like how good looking a speaker is or how many arguments they have just your numbers because quantity is not indicative of quality of course that's what the research says seriously it's petty and cassiopo it's elaboration likelihood model it's 1986 is the theory when it kind of became popularized I'm a PhD in psychology I'm a PhD candidate now I passed my comp exam which I'm celebrating and want to say thank you guys for all of your support during that it was a long uphill battle the comp exam was the hardest time of my life in terms of like taking on challenges and things like that and hardest task I should say want to say though my dear friends in addition so the data supports us and I want to say hello to you in chat though before I keep going on I you know I love preaching our values and that's why before I preach the last value that I'm excited about that's the one thing too is like sometimes you oh someone call me preachy well I don't know preaching is actually a bad thing I don't know if I take it as an insult call me preachy heaven forbid somebody have some conviction and actually say things that they actually believe and speak it with conviction so yes we are I'm going to continue preaching about our values here at modern day debate but first Fenton Mully says James won't debate Sam Cedar I'd be willing to debate Sam I'd even maybe be willing to go on Sam's show I just have to study before I would do it I know that Sam is considered one of the kings of debate and I have no problems with Sam like he's never said anything bad to me or anything like he probably doesn't even know who I am but I I hope he's doing well and I'd be pumped to debate him Fenton Mully I don't know what we debate I'm not sure what we disagree on I don't know a lot about his views Tioga says was until James banned me I have never banned you Tioga I mean I thought about it but no I haven't even thought about it I don't know what were you saying yeah I am far left and I have been here forever until James banned me no I actually it's really hard to get banned here like we've you know we've had people say yeah some people are brutal in the chat let's see Goku's hair says you discredit your neutrality with your consistent soy boy poll option I don't know but don't even like left leftist people use the word soy boy as like a funny you know I think everybody just uses it ironically now like it's not you know like uh I know it originated with the right but like yeah I mean I saw Vosh put out a video the other day where he said like Andrew Tate was a soy boy on the thumbnail or something and I was like I didn't think of it as like oh Vosh is a conservative after all like I don't I think people just use it pretty flippantly and ironically today I don't know but I mean yeah maybe I like I mean out of all the things you could make fun of me for in terms of being biased you're gonna go after that but I know it's all right I appreciate it I'm not mad or anything I appreciate you saying that Red Dirt Farm good to see you Timothy P Southwick happy to have you Amanda good to see you in the live chat excited to meet you in person at the conference this fall SideshowNav is in the chat right now and SideshowNav I think he said we're gonna find a location he's gonna get back to me I think he's gonna get back to me on Tuesday of this week so four days ago or was that it Bob? I can't remember but don't worry I know you're busy and it's frankly I'm just grateful that you've helped so Bob for real don't feel rushed and you're good I can't remember when you did say that you were gonna get the info to me but whenever it is we'll talk soon 6-6-x 6-6-x I don't know but we're glad you're here I see in the live chat as well as Colin Purr glad to have you Latin American Pure Blood glad you're here Solverix thanks for your support of the channel I appreciate your channel membership Kyle says what's his email? Kyle if you want to come on I'm at moderndaydebate at gmail.com very easy to remember it's just the name of the channel at gmail really easy so modern day debate no hyphens no spaces it's an email address so just modern day debate those three words in a row and thanks for your kind words says Mina says this guy is a cool cat and the mods don't ban everyone good channel I appreciate that Mina I think yeah we're pretty flexible like we don't want you to feel like you're walking on eggshells we've always said that people can say what they want and like I said the third value that we think is important is competition we think that it's true people are like oh James but you let someone so come on here and they're able to say whatever they want that's possibly dangerous and harmful misinformation and disinformation all these words that are like supposed to like control you when they try to like scare you a little bit and like oh you're supposed to fall in line and be like oh okay I'll stop I'm sorry no no no we have to host these people it's so important and I you know in a weird way there's a weird way that when people try they're like oh we're in a boycott modern day debate it's usually like really small small groups of people do this because hey like I said we've been I'm thankful that people have been super supportive thank you guys for being supportive we're at 255 likes now so that's huge thank you guys for that support is that if we get to 300 likes I will show you the subway tattoo I'm for real I know a lot of you guys have seen it but if you haven't seen it I'm not joking I have a 12 by 12 inch tattoo on my back I got it July 27th you can even see look at this polaroid you guys want to see the picture it's like a cool filter actually I think it was because I didn't expose it to the oxygen long enough do you see that was that's me in the on the will that be your right or your left I don't know I'm the one without a shirt on and that's DJ Tambi this was the coolest like memory I have from the summer I just it was soup oh like I could go on and on but I'm dead serious I have a subway tattoo if you want to see me take my shirt off and show you this tattoo and I know Norse mythology in live chat definitely wants to see that then hit that like button because for real I will show it to you and it will be tremendous it is a gigantic tattoo seriously now I talked about our third value in particular our third value is this competition is that the best arguments are going to win out and that's why we're not worried we're not thinking like oh no but you platform somewhere bad it's like well the best arguments will win anyway so who cares why worry why are you keeping why are you worrying on staying up all night about this but Solverix says subway for life amen to that brother I appreciate that Tioga says James why do you look like a Jesus freak tattoo I don't even know what that means but the freak thanks for coming by says I think Jared got off on you James whoa whoa you took it to a different place there all right nasty guy going to jail Jeremy Nolan yeah enjoy your time with Jared in prison Jeremy Nolan says James James keep up the good work Jeremy thank you I remember you Jeremy you're a positive guy I like that defeat hypocrisy says please James I can't sleep show your arms if we can get we're not far we can get to 300 likes I've done it before for real I think destiny even put it in a tattoo or put the tattoo picture of me during a stream I took my shirt off and destiny put it in one of the thumbnails oh Stephen but Colin Perre is that my saying it right we are glad you were here as well as aka badassah but too sigh thanks for coming by and thanks for your channel membership support seriously we really do appreciate that we do have channel membership support if you want to become a member go ahead and click that button below it allows you to use these based emoticons it's $1.99 a month that helps support the channel as we are trying to do bigger and batter things so for example we are trying to do an in-person conference in October it helps a ton if people support us through channel memberships and patreon as that gives us slack funds as we try to do that because frankly last time we were barely in the red it was really close but hey I would say that's a small sacrifice for us we were happy to do that for the last conference in January I don't know if you guys saw that but that was epic and if you become a channel member you get to use these awesome emoticons for example the one that says soyboy and that way you can call people in chat a soyboy just like I'm doing right now so I'm saying tioga is a and now I'm clicking on the emoticon soyboy and you can do that just like I'm doing right now if you become a channel member it is a fun time calling people soyboy with the emoticon but not only that I've got to be serious we have a patreon that is linked in the description that helps the channel as well and then someone said 30 I can't even see you got like all symbols for your your name says 38 likes to see the tattoo we're not far we're at 35 likes now for real we can get there and then tioga says jesus freak tattoo album from dc talk jesus let's see jesus freak tattoo album I wish I I don't know all these hip like albums that you speak of let's see here I don't even see this album tioga this sounds made up I see when I see dc talk jesus freak I see like a picture of it's not a person it's like a picture of a C with a the letter D inside tattoo I don't know are you on drugs but this one coming in from piracy gold thanks for coming by good to see you side show nav as well as so what says subway sandwiches yep that's right and then let's see here tioga says you're a soy boy in all caps that's funny takes one to no one character 57 and says how did the likes go back down ha that's good I like that character 57 I like your sass and mr minor thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live shot all over be Perez thanks for dropping in I see you as well dink yt thanks for dropping in now my dear friends modern day debate has a podcast did you know this I'm serious we do have a podcast it's on every single podcast app like apple podcast Spotify you name it it's out there we're on it for real every single one yeah pretty huge so I encourage you check it out and then let's see let's see his character 57 he says James you haven't told me if I got your type right with the girl I showed you in the video did I get it right let's see and then you've got look at let's see let's see let's see oh yeah I mean she's a pretty lady I don't know if you notice she's married she has a wedding ring on her finger but yeah why would you I don't understand why just because she's like a good looking brown haired person like me thank you appreciate that but Jimmy kebab says who has been your your least favorite person to have on for a debate I can't say that I don't want to hurt one of our guest feelings we're thankful for all the guests I can't say that Jimmy kebab but infrared now I'm kidding okay I uh I oh geez infrared just being brutal tonight man it's like infrared like why are you like man it was like he was angry or you said I don't know but I you know we're we got to be thankful for all the guests even infrared when he calls names like that we know that it gets crazy in here we know that it gets wild do you remember when it was when we had like I'll just say this I won't say who we said it to but Nick Fuentes said someone's wife was ugly when we had Nick Fuentes on those are kind of fighting words so pretty brutal it gets wild in here sometimes I don't it's not my style I wouldn't say that in a debate but it's blood sports we let people say what they want it's not your grandma's debate channel we've warned you about that you've known that for a long time but want to say thank you guys for your support red dirt farm and Norris mythology good to see you thanks for coming by Goku's hair thanks for coming by as well as I think that's pretty much cut up so I want to say thanks everybody for your support I love you guys you guys make this fun we're excited about the future Mike one five seven zero nine says based Simon Cowell says based glad you guys are here thanks for making this channel fun I am excited about the future this is just the beginning this is just the start of our story at modern debate it is going to be huge as we continue to expand this neutral platform because YouTube doesn't really have one now it's true there are like neutral moderators out there so for example like I think Dylan does a good job of moderating fairly but in terms of channels that only host debates modern day debate is the only one out there that does it fairly and that covers science religion and politics we cover all of the topics and we are going to keep growing keep expanding and we are going to become YouTube's premiere debate channel YouTube deserves a better class of debate channel and we're going to give it to them so I want to say thanks for your support we are excited about the future and we'll see you with the next one which is tomorrow night we've actually starting tomorrow we're going to have pretty much a debate every night for real it's going to pretty consistently we'll probably have one like breakup or something but generally speaking it's going to be pretty much a debate every night for this next month and I'm shooting for the next four months for real it's going to be gigantic so we are really going to pick up steam we're excited about that it's a great time to be doing it and want to say thank you guys for all of your support seriously you guys make this fun we appreciate you we love you thanks for being fun fun it's always fun to hang out with you guys I hope you guys have a great rest of your night my dear friends and I couldn't help but mention this my dear friends tonight was amazing my dear friends it was indeed amazing I hope that you guys are all doing this is just let me play with this for a little bit before we go beta you guys I have enjoyed this so much and I forgot I should have said this at the start of the show welcome to the show it's Friday it's Friday amazing but let me play my other favorite sound board but first when it comes to Tioga in chat she's insane that's right amazing let's see here's another one let me find other insults for Tioga two seconds folks just hang in there and she's also an evil woman but nonetheless we appreciate all of you guys taking out with us and let me go to my other favorite sound board hi okay I'm not as fast as the pros how are you first I would like to just get to know you my mother where is who is your daddy and what does he do anyway thanks guys for your fun you you guys make this fun thanks for making it fun I appreciate you guys I love you guys and we'll see you at the next one amazing