 We still have one minute, so it's really a nice room. It's very unusual. How are you? It's called the arena, so it's an arena. Now innovative. Now innovative. Very innovative. All right, because it's a webcast, so I just want to make sure we start. Yeah, it was great. How is everyone here? All good? Excited. So good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's good to see you here. A warm welcome to this session, making the Middle Corridor future proof. We are at the annual meeting of the new champions 2023 in Tianjin, China. And I'm Mirek Ducek, managing director at the World Economic Forum. 2500 kilometers, which in the China context would be the drive from Tianjin, where we are now, all the way to the border in the south with Vietnam. So quite a big chunk of distance that could be saved in terms of transporting goods between China and Europe through the Middle Corridor if the Middle Corridor is fully developed. That's one of the estimates that we are working with. So really the Middle Corridor is at the heart of our discussion today. It's really a technical term, but it's also being increasingly now used by ministers and COs when it comes to really this ancient axis actually between China and Europe over Caucasus, Turquia, Caucasus, Central Asia, all the way to China. Now, we've seen a tremendous growth on that round. We will talk about some of the reasons today, but it's a fact that we see a lot of momentum, a lot of dynamism on this route. Just to put some numbers on it, we saw a record growth last year in 2022. The volume of cargo transportation increasing by two and a half times to 1.5 million tons. Now, what is at stake is a huge trade axis. To say the least, we're just talking trade here. I think it's well known, $600 billion worth of trade yield between China and Europe. Those of you who follow trade numbers, you know that the one between China and the U.S. was last year about $700 billion. So this is one of the most critical trade axes in the world, and so that shows you the huge potential in terms of developing and of course hopefully growing this relationship through all kinds of tools, including the Middle Corridor. Now, I wanted to also mention that we are still developing this. So just to put it in context, the Middle Corridor currently represents about 10% of the total cargo transported via what they call the Northern Corridor, which is going through Russia. Now, what we are here today also to do is to look to the future. So in the title of this dialogue today, we say future-proving, the Middle Corridor, what we mean by that is all kinds of things, but it's also the fact that we want to make sure that this momentum that you're seeing from all kinds of entities, public, private, European, American, Chinese and others, that it is really used to make sure that then not only this corridor but also the whole ecosystem and the economies that are connected to it are really kind of part of the overall transition in the digital realm and to the digital economy as well as in terms of building clean energy economies in the future. I could not wish for a more august panel to discuss this with me and with us, all of us today. I should say that we, by the way, have an audience here in Tianjin, but we also are watched by stakeholders and interested audiences from around the world online. And so I'm really glad to have with us Petr Siarto, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary. Warm welcome to you. Renat Bekturov, Governor of Astana International Financial Center in Kazakhstan. Warm welcome. Ahmed Alamdar, President, Industry Group, Sabancı Holding in Turkey. Warm welcome. Last but not least, Lauren Chung, Chief Executive Officer, Strategy and Communications, Asia-Pacific Tenure Holdings based in Hong Kong. And one last thing from me on the introduction. What I would like to cover today, ideally, is that we first map a little bit what the middle corridor actually means to you because, as I said, it is a little bit of a technical term. So what does it actually mean? And we have good array of stakeholders here on the panel. Then I'd like to cover some of the larger trends that are affecting the middle corridor and then also look at the digital and green if we can in terms of future proofing. So if I could start with you, Mr. Minister. So you're representing Hungary. But I know that you've paid a lot of attention both personally and your country and of course also Europe is paying a lot of attention to the middle corridor specifically, but you have also been paying a lot of attention in terms of this trade investment and it's an axis for a lot of exchange, types of exchanges between Europe and the East, between Europe and Asia. So help us understand if we say the middle corridor, what does this really mean to you personally and to Hungary and what are the things that you're working on that are top of mind for you? Well, may I start with a sentence which is shamefully simplified from diplomatic hate to the ground, which reads like connectivity is good. Dividing the world into blocks again is bad. This is the basic from where we start to think about economic trade and investment ties between Europe and China. Unfortunately, there are trends in Europe based on which some of our friends and partners, unfortunately too many of them, look at China as if it was a risk or a threat. So therefore, these political leaders in Europe are not too much interested in the interconnectivity between Europe and China. To the contrary, they are interested in so-called decoupling or de-risking, which to be honest, according to our understanding would be a suicide, a brutal suicide committed by the European economy, putting into consideration that Europe has lost a lot when it comes to competitiveness because of many reasons, including the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and its economic impacts. Therefore, it would be our interest, when I say our Europe's interest, to cooperate with China based on mutual respect and aiming at mutual benefits. And unlike other European countries and politicians, we Hungarians look at China as a country with which if you cooperate, that brings you a lot of potential benefit. So we are not ready to look at China as a rival or a threat or a risk. We look at the east to west sharing of labor. Number one is a huge opportunity for the future. And number two, basically the only way how we can improve the competitiveness of Europe, because what was the basis for the predictable growth of Europe and economy for decades? The basis was that the highly developed technologies of the Western European countries and companies had a very good combination with the easily accessible, relatively cheap natural resources from the east, mainly Russia. And this combination gave a very solid basis for economic growth in Europe. Now, the ties between Russia and Europe are being cut one by one because of the unfortunately well-known developments. Therefore, if we cut the relationship, if we cut the ties between China and Europe, this is going to be a knockout to the European economy. This is an 865 billion euro trade between China and the European Union on an annual basis. Now, what happens if you cut such a relationship? That's a knockout for the European economy. Therefore, we need the physical roots. We need the trade roots between China and Europe. And the middle corridor can serve as a new way, a new physical way of cooperation between Europe and China. And why it would be our interest, Europeans, is that facts and figures are telling and they have nothing to do with the political perception. And facts and figures show that while back in 2010, Europe's share in global GDP was 22% while China's was 9%. Last year, China's share was 18%, Europe's was at 17%. So it's obvious that if we look at China as a rival, instead of look at China as a cooperation partner, the Europeans will lose on it. So therefore, improving the trade between China and Europe and improving the investment relationship between China and Europe, improving the supply chains between Europe and China is a must from our perspective. And my last thought is the following. Based on political decisions, the backbone of the European economy, which is the automotive industry, is being basically reborn. A totally new industry is being born before our eyes, namely the electromobility. So the Western European companies can produce fantastic electric cars. But somehow, Europe has forgotten about the fact that you can only start the engine of an electric car if you have an electric battery. Now, the facilities or capacities to build electric batteries have not been built up in Europe. Therefore, this is the first time ever in the European history of economy that the backbone industry of Europe is being totally, totally dependent on supplies from the East, mainly from China. So therefore, cutting the ties between China and Europe would cause a huge damage to the European economy. And if you don't have the physical roots, then everything is just a perception, everything is just an illusion. So it must be Europe's interest to have this new delivery route, the new middle corridor between China and Europe. Otherwise, I don't see any growth potential for the European economy anymore. Thank you so much. If you allow, I would like to just follow up with a question that is maybe more related than to Central Asia. Because I know you follow and you work on energy developments as well. And so you mentioned the Ukraine crisis. And so let's face it, of course, a big factor in the attention being paid to the middle corridor is also the geopolitical developments and the war in Ukraine. Now, could you tell us a little more about that push? Because of course, Europe is looking to diversify energy resources. And I know from talking to some of your colleagues that Hungary is very active in really doing that, not only in terms of then Hungary's role, but also it has some repercussions then in Europe on neighboring countries. If you could just give us some update on that. Sure. So we are a landlocked country, a landlocked country which has no significant oil or gas resources. So we are dependent on imports. And we have never considered energy as of political or ideological nature. Why? Because with ideology, you cannot hit the houses. With political statements, you cannot run the industry. We have always considered energy supply as it is, as of physical nature. You need source and you need delivery line. You need oil field or gas field and you need pipeline. This is a must. And if you look at the current energy infrastructure map of central Europe, you see that regardless of all political intentions, if you cut the Russian resources from Hungary, it will be physically impossible to supply the country fully when it comes to oil or gas. So therefore, we look at the diversification as its definition reads. Diversification for us means having more sources and more delivery routes. For us, diversification doesn't mean that you replace one source with the other because this is not diversification. This is just changing the geographic direction. And in our diversification efforts, we look at Central Asia as a potential source of diversification. But once again, in order to take into consideration a region as a source of diversification, you need the physical infrastructure. And we don't have it yet. We have to be clear to each other and honest teacher. We don't have it yet. So therefore, we have urged the European Union to build it. Because there's always a huge pressure on us, on behalf of European Union, diversify, diversify, diversify. Okay, but how? How? I mean, as long as you cannot deliver the oil or gas in backpack, you cannot deliver it from Central Asia to Europe. So therefore, we urge the European Union to build the infrastructure to upgrade the capacities through which you can buy gas from Azerbaijan, from any other countries in the Central Asian region and deliver it to Central Europe. And therefore, we are working together with Azerbaijan, Georgia and Romania on a huge project to deliver offshore wind energy through a submarine cable, which would be the longest in the world, to Central Europe. But here again, you need European financing because it's not a national issue. This is a European issue. So therefore, Central Asia, yes, it's a source for diversification, but speech about diversification will remain a philosophy or a perception as long as the infrastructure is not there. So we have to stay with both feet on the ground. I understand the ideology is important. For us, buying gas or oil from Russia is not a matter of political taste. That's a matter of reality. And once again, you have to respect reality when it comes to energy diversification because if you do not have gas, you cannot hit the houses of the people. You can be a fantastic political marketing expert or a communication expert. You will not be able to explain to the people that you have gas if they get frozen. So therefore, reality must be respected. Thank you so much. I'll still come back for at least one more round. I'd like to move to Mr. Bekturov. So I was recently in Astana with you at the Astana Economic Forum. And I saw for his hand how your economy is reopening and dealing with both opportunities and risks. Given how pivotal your economy is on this corridor, but overall on this route, on this axis, could you just give us a little bit of an update? I think it would be quite interesting to hear from you where Kazakhstan's economy is and what are the things you're working on in general before I go into some of the specifics. Well, thank you, Merit. Exactly. And I was already telling in that room, right? Since the very beginning of the year, I have been talking about the middle corridor in every part almost of the world. In Boao in the spring, which is far east to Washington DC during the spring meetings of IMF and World Bank and Astana International Forum in the middle, that probably highlights the importance of the route now for the economy. You have mentioned the numbers, trade numbers between Europe and China, right? And Kazakhstan has a big country and has a probably huge chunk of this route. So we used to say, or like in my country, we used to say we are a landlocked country. We don't have access to the open seas, so kind of having our say in international trade is difficult. But someone recently told me, you have a China next door. Why do you need a sea, right? So that kind of, I think in a new geopolitical situation makes sense, right? So if we can bridge, and that's what the middle corridor is about, if we take a look, the most of the trade still happened very time. And then you mentioned the northern corridor through Russia, which was another huge route, right? And we still, with the middle corridor, which is an alternative, don't cover even 10% or around 10% of the volume. So there is a huge upside, I think. The middle corridor for me is exactly starting in the east with our border in China. And there we have developed, for example, the biggest in the world, dry port, that actually to be the entry point to this route. So the route goes then to the west, right, and to the Caspian Sea. We actually call it the Trans-Caspian International Transportation Route, TITR. And then in the Caspian, it kind of takes different directions, then through the Azerbaijan, Georgia, to the Black Sea, and then, of course, Europe, or then it can go to Turkey and then the Europe, or it can actually go to the south potentially through Iran to the Gulf. And then again, we are like in an open sea, right? So there are many routes. But nevertheless, in the middle is still Kazakhstan and other Central Asian states. It's basically, I don't think it's a new concept. It's actually a new breath of an old ancient Silk Road. Still, the trade has been there for a long time, right? And we understand that the physical capacity of the infrastructure now is kind of the main problem, right? And it requires huge investments by some estimates. For example, EBRD did an estimate on this. There is about 18 billion U.S. dollar investment needed. We jointly with the private entity ICE International did, we had the number around 21 billion U.S. dollars of investment needed, both for the projects in Kazakhstan, like railroads, automobile roads, update of our ports in Caspian Sea, Kuru Kanta Actile, some of the infrastructure in other Central Asian states like Uzbekistan. That's a huge amount of capital that is required. So we need to make sure that the capital can flow in and flow out easily, right? And again, all the geopolitics, then the inflation does not really make it that easy in the current situation. But nevertheless, we see a lot of the interest, and I think that will be even more increasing. We'll see, because it's about making future proof, as you said, right? So it's not, in my mind, a temporary solution. At least middle quarter shouldn't be a permanent solution. It's also about involving us and other Central Asian states. We don't want to be just a transit. We want actually to make sure that it will cascade into a local economy, right? So that we have our input in that corridor as well. And His Excellency Minister mentioned, for example, Kazakh oil, right? So we are also looking for a diversification of routes for transporting our oil. That again, we can talk about the BTC pipeline that we need to fill in. And the steps we're taking is that, for example, we created the JV or our oil company created JV with the Abu Dhabi ports to operate the tanker fleet in Caspian and Black Sea, right? It's tiny yet of the total amount produced of oil. But these are the first steps, right? So that we can make sure that they would diversify and it stands for long, as you said, like it's for the future. I guess I'll stop and then elaborate a little bit more on other ideas. Oh, it's very interesting. If I could just follow up with one thing, and I hope you don't mind if I... Sure. Because, of course, what I saw and I was talking to yourself, some of your colleagues in the government, but also business leaders, et cetera. So you have, of course, then a lot of investment and a lot of entities coming from Europe. You mentioned EBRD, there is EIB and there are other players. But then, of course, there are also projects with China, either as part of just a private investment or as part of the more government-led investment. So how can we make sure what would be your message to make sure that we can really... Because we need to scale this. So as we said, you said it also about 10% of where the northern corridor is. We will, I think, also talk about some of the more... Both opportunities, but also some of the challenges or gaps that need to be fixed. But what would be your message to some of the big investors in terms of working together? How can we scale it? Or maybe it's already happening and I just don't know. Yeah, I mean, I mentioned, for example, Abu Dhabi ports, right? And then there are some private projects. So the international development organizations like World Bank, EBRD, they add leverage, right? So I think the important thing is to make sure that the equity investment is in place from the private sector, right? And unfortunately, given all the geopolitics and the inflationary risk, the smart money from the West is kind of very cautious or they're adding a lot of the premium for investing into the middle corridor and the region, right? However, I think, in my mind, there are new centers of capital. So that's Asia, namely China, and of course the Middle East. That's the probably new pool of capital that is more eager to invest, but not just because it's an investment opportunity, but also it is a business and it's a matter of actually keeping the trade level to making sure that they fuel the growth because they actually use this middle corridor. It's not just an investment idea for them, right? So they not just calculate the premium and etc., they understand the second order effect. And here I think it's very important also to tie it to the Belt and Road Initiative of China, right? Which is like 10 years this year. I think that the first stage of the Belt and Road Initiative was mainly driven by EPC, maybe EPC plus finance, right? I mean, we can talk about it and people were talking about in Boa'ua, which kind of led to fear of dead burden, right? Or dead trap, people used to say. So I think that also from the Chinese side, it is important to take the Belt and Road Initiative to the next level where it's not just about the EPC or giving the debt, it's more actually about the transfer of technology. And then I think that the capital, because it's not about only scarcity, but the question is whether that capital is welcome or not, right? So if we actually, and you gave the example with the EVs, right? So the technology is transferred, you have no battery factories. So the countries, let's say, called recipients, right, who need these investments, you want to see the commitment. You don't want just to see the debt, right? You don't want to see that. I mean, it is acceptable at certain levels, but you want to see more commitment in terms of a transfer of technology, knowledge, because that builds future-proof projects that actually creates an effect of a second and third order. Then you see that impact is direct on your economy. It creates jobs. It creates the GDP. And you don't have this liability, huge liability whether it's a private or public sector. So I think that is the path for the future in terms of both middle corridor and the Belt and Road. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. Lauren, if I could talk to you or turn to you. We at the beginning mentioned that some people may know about the middle corridor, some people may not know about the middle corridor. And obviously it's so important that we, and that's why we're also having this session, really kind of put it out and we attract more interest also from private sector players from around the world. And you work with a lot of companies in Asia, in your case, to see the things that you would mention that could really bring it to an even greater focus for a lot of the CEOs that you're working with. Thank you very much. Look, Kazakhstan I think is leading the way in developing sort of global awareness around the middle corridor and the opportunity that the corridor presents. But there is absolutely, I think, more that can be done. We've talked about some of the sort of tangible, the harder aspects of the middle corridor development. But there's very much a need, I think, to develop the soft power aspects of the corridor and the global narrative and awareness of this new trade route. So the topic of our discussion is future-proofing the middle corridor, which really implies longevity, sustainability. And to achieve those things, you need to generate trust. Trust among all the constituencies that are going to be engaged with the middle corridor. So investors are the government's private sector communities. And I would argue that that starts with sharpening, I suppose, the narrative and the dialogue around the middle corridor. So just for a point of context, as you mentioned, Taneo is an advisory firm that works with CEOs and boards on strategic, reputational, transformational risk-related agendas. And the middle corridor very much spans all of those agendas. So just to come back to the point of narrative and sort of generating more global awareness, I think there's a need to probably start at the basics. What is the middle corridor? And I can assure you, in sort of global circles, it's not a commonly used or discussed opportunity yet. Though that is changing with your work. It is in your part of the world, but yes, in mine not so much. So what is the middle corridor? What opportunity does it present for investors, for corporates and other participants? Promoting the competitive advantages of the corridor diversification, shorter trade routes, cost efficiencies, potentially a lighter green or carbon footprint, would be some other areas. I think there's also an opportunity to really generate dialogue around the shared vision of the participating economy's alignment of the vision for the middle corridor. Political risk is a boardroom issue like it's arguably never been before. So anything that can be done that demonstrates sort of economic cohesion, that alignment, that integration I think helps to alleviate some of those potential risk concerns. Longevity, framing the middle corridor to your point earlier. This is not a temporary trade route solution because geopolitics is as it is. This is for the long term. And the benefits, yes, flow from China to Europe and back again. But it's also about the benefits and the second and third order consequences, as you noted, for the participating economy is what that means for the development of those economies as well. And then there's also longer term expansion into Southeast Asia, links without Southeast Asia, and then also through to the Middle East. A few other points. Reform, anything that can be discussed around more business-friendly policies for participating countries to attract FTI, to attract corporate participation, efforts to stamp out corruption, as an example, I think helps. And importantly, and I'll wrap up on this point, but how the middle corridor impacts the people that live along it I think is critical. How does it benefit, you know, telling stories about the rejuvenated village that sits along one of the trade links or the merchant within one of the countries that can trade cross-border for the first time. I think it's really powerful human impact from the corridor. And that is a story that I think should be told as well. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'd like to now turn to you, Ahmed. You're with Sabanci Group, a holding in Turkey. So I think, Lorna, you said what does it mean to you? So what does it mean to your company, but also Turkey? Obviously you are on that route, trade, energy, investment route, ancient access, and so you're kind of living it. But I'll be just interested to know, because there are pivotal changes. We've covered them on energy, of course, on trade, et cetera. So I'd just like to get your perspective from Turkey at first, kind of how it's just a little bit on the Turkey's economy, but also then as an investor, as a private sector entity, how do you view the middle corridor in other geographies? Do you see it as an opportunity or what would be the things that they should be working on to get you even more involved on that axis? As long as I'm concerned, there are two things about that middle corridor. One of them is physical. Yes, it's a physical old silk road reviving again. And then there is another part. This is non-physical, very much humanitarian, as I have explained, as you have explained. So physical side, well, let's take a reverse example. Let's take Turkey out of the map. Let's forget that there is no Turkey over there. Then there is no middle corridor. Then it ends in Bulgaria, a little bit Greece, or in Azerbaijan and Iran, and there is no middle corridor. So that's what Turkey and middle corridor is, to my understanding. So from the physical aspect, yes, there is energy pipelines. Yes, there are roads. Yes, there are ports. And yes, there are airlines. And in those aspects, Turkey has gone a long way in the last 20 years from Turkish airlines to its ports and to its roads and to many other things. Today Turkish Airlines is the company which flies the most cities in the world to give an example. But that physical part, while it is very, very important and it's very economic, the affluence is not only measured by the economy as well. It's also measured by the cultural part, by the humanitarian part as well. And when you consider Turkey in that aspect, it's a country where there is an incredible entrepreneurship and youth potential. Today, 50% of the population is below 30 years old and that's a country of 80 million people. When you talk about innovation, it's a country where there are more than 200 universities and the entrepreneurship spread not only is existent within Turkey, but it's also a country which makes roughly 150 to 200 billion dollar trade with European Salon through its customs union. When you go a little bit down to the humanitarian part, Turkey, Anatolia has been the birthplace and one of the important culprits for many cultures and many civilizations to go through. And I would like to remind that Turkey today is the country which hosts the biggest number of immigrants, with 5 million immigrants in Turkey. So this middle corridor should not only be thought about only as a physical, economical thing, but it's also a corridor where it connects humanity from one place to another. Taking this to the business perspective, that also means why not Turkey become a technological bridge as well? Why not Turkey becomes an innovation bridge as well? And that's where the multinationals get in and how the answer is, well, what are the macro teams in the world today? One of them is yes, green economy, sustainability. The other one is yes, digitalization, but there is a third one and this is very much of importance and this is changing operating models. The modularity of manufacturing in this disconnected world is important. And while we are talking about sustainability, trade is part of the problem as well as it's a part of solution with its logistics, with its carbon emission at the transportation level. So in that aspect as well, Turkey and the other countries around the middle corridor can play an important role even for the sustainability of the world for the future, let alone its relationship is cultural connectedness and in a world which is unfortunately, unfortunately disconnecting today, middle corridor and Turkey can play a very important role in connecting those physically and non-physically. Thank you so much. I said at the beginning I would also like to cover a little bit of the larger factors. So if I could turn to you, Mr. Bekturov, when I was in Astana, I was also part of a discussion like this and so of course we then talked about some of the challenges as well. So how do we go down to 10 days? How do we make sure we get there and you already covered a lot of the different infrastructure projects and I remember there was, I think it was the head of your railway system next to me and of course there is important investments and then of course there was the discussion around coordinating standards, customs, etc. So what I wanted to ask you about is, so there is that route but of course what is at stake and I think Lauren you said it also, how do we make sure that this ultimately is benefiting society, is really growing the pie for everyone and obviously the ecosystem within Central Asia and how do we connect the economies of Central Asia even better together I think would be a great achievement out of this because there is a lot of attention being paid to the middle corridor at least in some corners there may be more but of course how do we use this to make sure that there is this even better thriving ecosystem in the economies of Central Asia I know you are working a lot of things but just to give us your perspective on that from Kazakhstan Sure, yeah, I mean maybe I'll go back I forgot to answer a little bit on the first question about what we are actually experiencing what the Kazakh economy looks like right so the last year and I expect this year will be as good is that because of the again trade growing but also the oil prices it was actually quite a good year especially in terms of FDI I think we reached the record level of 28 billion and we expect and it's not just us IMF has recently upgraded the growth rate of Kazakhstan to 5% for this year so I think again it's kind of times of challenges but also the window of opportunity who knows when it's going to close but for us it is an opportunity and relating back to the middle corridor we discussed like a hard infrastructure and then the difficulty is actually to elevate the capacity of the hard infrastructure by filling the gaps in it but also there is a soft infrastructure part to it right it's both like a cultural as you mentioned but also the digitalization because it's about interoperability and connection between the countries so we in Kazakhstan managed to reduce the transit from east border to west border from 12 days to 5 but actually the problem is in between right between the countries where it crosses the borders so there is still a problem of one fee right for the route so because the customer wants to see that it deals with one participant or pays one commission fee rather than that makes it faster but also the customs, processes, duties everything is if it's handled digitally hence fast it makes it even better right so that's the part that we're still working on it requires both political will I guess and then the investment so in terms of public participation and policy just last week our prime minister had a big delegation exactly around the middle corridor to Azerbaijan and Georgia to discuss all this meaning one fee for the whole route so it's actually more convenient for whoever uses the route right but then in terms of a digitalization that is also important and there is a like a, as I said, the customs processes light touch, etc. that make it faster but also the payment issue here maybe like a CBDC or something we have new technologies emerging right I'm not talking exactly about the cryptocurrencies but blockchain that can probably make it faster and then the digitalization and the customs developing these solutions could be exactly the second and third order effect for the whole economies around it right we as Kazakhstan and international financial center especially seeing that this start-up community is growing quite fast and whole VC venture capital industry around it you've mentioned right that there is a conducive environment should be created for the businessmen and for investors so we created a jurisdiction based on the English common law with the separate court and etc so actually business can feel itself comfortable and the seeds that we have planted four or five years ago and now we see them growing especially again going back with the VC infrastructure so funds are setting up themselves actually in AFC to invest into these new start-ups and they're in different areas fintech, health tech but also logistics could be another big area like logically right if we are the longest route along this middle corridor there will be a demand and there is a demand for digital solutions so the brightest young maybe not that young minds can attract capital and make sure these ideas grow that is just one example how this can affect more long-term the economy around it but not just that as I mentioned in the beginning it's also about exporting our goods like Uzbekistan produces a lot of the fruits, vegetables and etc right and this of course the route is opportunity to ship that goods to Europe and to establish these ties same is for the companies from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan for example in terms of a critical mineral resources right which are also in huge demand in Europe so again this route should be permanent in terms of economic benefit for the local economies and that's how it's probably going to be thank you so much it's been a very rich discussion and we have four minutes left so no no it was really I mean it so I'd like to I'd like to go to you minister just to kind of close this discussion because and I know you talked about it but I'm just curious because there is so much so many developments now in terms of the Europe-China relationship we just saw and the Premier talked about it he was just in Germany and France and I think for a lot of leaders and for a lot of business leaders it's so important that you try to navigate this to be able to see okay where are still the productive lanes where we can which we can rely upon so you mentioned I think de-risking of course there is also some other terms used but if you were to try to see where this could go if you were to paint a road map that you think could work where would you like Europe and China to be particularly on the economic relationship in the years to come where will the Europe-China relationship go that depends on whether Europe is ready to come back to rationality and common sense or we seem to lose it for a long time I do hope that we will be able to come back to rationality and we will be able to stand with both feet on the ground just to give you one idea while I listen to my German colleague speaking about decoupling at the Foreign Affairs Council and then I receive the phone calls from the CEOs of the German car making companies please convince our Chinese suppliers to come to Hungary to the same city possibly next door so this is the relationship between political perception and the reality itself what I think would be very important that Europe should not look at China as a systematic rival for example we Hungarians we don't feel rivalry to China why? because the political system of a country is being determined by its culture by its cultural heritage and since we all do have different cultural heritage and we have to respect it and we have to recognize it so while we have totally different cultural heritage we have to accept we have to recognize that we have different political structures and political systems as well and we should I mean Europe has a let's say readiness to lecture to judge to tell others how they should accommodate their own lives but this does not make sense before we have different political systems and we do have to understand that it's great if we can agree on some basic things human rights, democracy and so on and so forth but we should not impose our own political systems on the others because this is a cultural issue and if Europe is able to come back from this position of teacher of the world and could rebase its relationship with nations of the world on basis of mutual respect then the EU-China cooperation can be beneficial for both look we Hungarians have shown as a small country in the heart of Europe that it's possible we have become a meeting point of the Eastern and the Western investors and this shows that you can take a lot of benefit out of this sharing of labor so connectivity is good while dividing the world into blocks again is bad this is what I have started with and I wanted to underline that this is a very simplified position but if you look behind it or under it I think you understand that this is key now don't let the world be dividing into blocks again no thank you so much I think the cost of fragmentation as the IMF and World Trade Organization have warned are clear 25% and 7% of global output if we really let it happen so that's really what's at stake you can rest assured that the World Economic Forum will continue also to give our platform to dialogue on that but also to dialogue on the middle corridor and let's hope that this is a moment where then we will be able to figure out what the future lanes look like and then the middle corridor then fully realizes its potential and we will see those 600 billion that is currently between us and China really going into much higher figures in the future so thank you so much to the panelists thank you so much also to the audience sorry we didn't get to questions we ran out of time but I hope you found it interesting thank you