 and so glad to have everyone joining us today on a fry yay. I don't often wear graphic tee, but I decided to be kind was really important. So I am wearing a fun graphic tee, because as we all continue to navigate, it's really important that we do continue to be kind to others, but also really to ourselves. And we are so excited to have the continued partnership with fundraising Academy to bring the ask and answer episodes to you each and every fry yay to you live. Now, if you can't join us live, that's A-OK. We understand many people are getting back to a pseudo normal or some sort of a hybrid, but you can of course catch any of these thanks to our presenting sponsors on the recording. So we have well over 350 episodes now. And again, we are just so extremely grateful and appreciative to all of our presenting sponsors that allow Julia and I to continue these conversations with so many national leaders and experts in our sector across the nation. So thank you, thank you, thank you to all of our presenting sponsors. We wouldn't be here without your support. Julia Patrick, of course, is back. We are so glad to have you. Julia is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and I'm Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group, also known as your non-profit nerd. And my glasses are not far, especially for today as we move into our questions because this is an opportunity for those of you that are avid viewers, we are so grateful, but I really love, love nerding out over these questions. So I feel like, and we've said this before, Julia, but these questions continue to change and evolve and we have really been able to witness where you are, where our leaders are. And I don't mean geographically, I mean like where you are in the trenches. What is happening with your organization? Yes, what is happening in your head? How are some of these issues taking shape in a new way as we continue to navigate forward? So here we are. Looks like you have a question from Arnold and I will let you get us started. Thanks, Julia. So this is really interesting and I'm really interested to hear your response because you know more about this than I do. I've been hearing more of my peers using your hiring coaches to help them in their work. What is the average cost and how does it work? That's a great question. I do offer this service, Arnold, and I'm gonna, again, I mean, I wouldn't be Jarrett, I wouldn't be the nonprofit nerd if I wasn't so authentic and transparent. I have a variety of pricing and that doesn't mean that you get a discounted service, but it really just depends on what exactly you're looking for coaching on. And to be honest, are you paying it? Where are you in your career? So I do a leadership coaching that is a sliding scale and I also offer that as a pay-as-you-go. So there are services that exist that are non-binding, it is a pay-as-you-go, there could be a flex fee. And then there's really what I call more my executive coaching program that is a six month to a year commitment. Typically though, that is being paid by the organization because they're reaping so many benefits when it comes to also strategic direction, guidance, and just overall coaching. So that package, as I'm sure you have already started to count up is a little bit more costly than the individual leadership coaching, but I would ask any coach and I would ask several. What is their coaching style? How did they choose to meet? What can you expect to receive from them? And then kind of what is that working relationship? My son just started Cross Country and I loved hearing from the coach what her coaching like ideology is. Like what is your thought process behind coaching? And that is so relevant to having a professional coach in your career. So don't be afraid to ask those questions, right? Like what is your concept when it comes to coaching? What is your ideology behind coaching? Those are great questions to see if that person is the right fit for you. You know, it's interesting. I was talking to this with our executive producer, Kevin Pace, who's man. So his comment was, you know, you would never show up to play sports without a coach. And he's like, you know, even from little league to professional sports, you're going to have coaches and you're going to have coaches for different things at different times for different needs. And some of these coaches are very, very specific. They might deal with your attitude, your physicality, your health, your mental health, you know, your right arm when you're pitching, whatever. And I was like, yeah, you know, that's true to put it back into our world that it's a good thing. I want to drill down and push you a little bit, not just you, Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, but understanding the scope of the coaching landscape. Are we looking at like a hundred bucks an hour, 250 bucks an hour, a thousand bucks an hour? Like probably yes to all of that. But what is that? What should we be thinking about? Well, so again, I really believe, you know, it depends on how seasoned that individual is, right? So I myself am a specific nonprofit business coach. I work with several coaches myself. And even as you say that, right? Like I have a personal trainer coach. I have a nutrition coach. I have a intuitive coach. Like I work with a variety of coaches. I have a business coach. And I'm going to be honest, they all charge a little differently. Though I think it really depends. For me, yes, it is a hundred plus for the executive leadership, or I should just call it the leadership really, because the executive coaching is much higher and much more intensive. So. Okay, good. Well, that helps. And I really, one of the things that I really learned before we go on from you, and that is understanding what their style and their approach is. Yes. And is it self-pay, as we would say in the medical world? Yeah. Or is your organization paying? That's right. Interesting. That's right. Yeah. Well, okay, Arnold, I hope this helps. Yeah, I think that's great. And you know, it's nothing to be ashamed of, right? Like it's really, as someone had said, if you want to fast pass to the next level, I think that's a great opportunity. We also, many of us have, I think I might have mentioned this before, but like financial coaches. So there's so many opportunities to engage in a coach, but really to think of this as fast-tracking to that next level. I love that, Jared. I think that's really cool. Okay. Excuse me. All right, let's go to Boise, Idaho. I floated the idea of doing a book of the month for executive team. This would be a book that relates to nonprofit management. Nobody seemed interested. Any ideas on how to spurn some action in learning new things? Now we've had this question, or this type of question before. Yeah. Isn't it interesting? So I would love to know what the age of this person is, because book of the month, tagged learning something new. So you know what? I'm laughing because I'm not a reader. I'm not a reader. I am a learner and I am an educator and I am curious to gain knowledge. But I would be, named withheld, someone that's like, I am not interested. Because to me, I hear that's one more thing to add to my list. When am I reading this book? And if this is a monthly book club, that to me screams like, that's a lot of work. Now, I do love Audible. I listen a lot to what used to be called books on tape. So I listened to it that way as well when I'm walking or getting ready for my day. But I would really come to the expectation of what the participants would need to commit to, right? On average, and as your organization, essentially allowing this professional to read that book or listen to that book during work hours. Because I think that's really important too. So if this is something that, again, and you started our conversation today, Julia, just about we're all exhausted. We're about two years into this, right? I myself have been recently like really hitting a wall of emotional stability and just energy levels, you know? And so for me, it's literally like, this might be that straw that broke my back where I'm like, I'm done. I can't, I cannot do anymore. And so I share that very transparently because I'm not a reader. And I see this as a huge like additional task on top of the heap that I'm already trying to manage. But if you could come to it with a little bit more of like, here's what we would expect. Here's about the time estimate. And again, if this is something they can do during work hours, I think that's really important to mention. So that might help to get some more action. Okay, so what if this happened? What if during one of your executive meetings, you had a quote unquote guest speaker, even if it was on Zoom or whatever, who could talk about maybe the work they're doing in their nonprofit or trends or just general knowledge that could help become a discussion point that was done during the meeting? How would you feel about that? Absolutely. That would be like a better, and that would still stimulate you and still allow you to be, okay. Yes, I think so. Like again, and for those of you that watch at, you know, ongoing, I'm so appreciative, but I am definitely one of those. I love benchmarking. I love knowing what other organizations are doing. But when you mentioned a book club, absolutely not. That's an age thing. Okay, well, cool. I mean, I appreciate hearing your perspective because I would have never thought of that. But I'm also from the generation where your executive team always was reading something. Yeah. Always, and then it was always a point of discussion. And so that's a generational thing too. I think it's generational because now we talk often about, oh, I'm listening to this podcast. Let me share with you this podcast. Oh, I'm listening to this national broadcast, the nonprofit show. I'd love for you to also watch and listen to this episode. That is continued learning, right? And it doesn't necessarily mean that it comes with a spine and it goes into a bookshelf, but I do think that that is the modern, you know, we are always reading something. And I've got about four books on my nightstand. It doesn't mean that I pick them up daily. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's cool. I'm glad that you mentioned it. Name with Heldon Boise, if you're looking for some nonprofit topic books, check out our book club on the Nonprofit, on the American Nonprofit Academy website, because we do have books. And I appreciate you saying that, because it's not, and again, that's why this show works, because we don't always think of the same things. I would not have thought of that. So, okay, don't think that I'm not a reader, but I'm not. No, no, no, I get it. I get it. I mean, I think there's, you know, they always say there's like what five main ways that we consume and... Information, yes. Metastasize information, if you will. And so I think that's, I think that's a really good thing to understand. Okay, you know how I love my name with Helds? This one's coming to us from Baton Rouge. And I don't think it's Ohio. Oh, I didn't know there was a Baton Rouge. I would imagine it's LA, Louisiana. I'm trying to form a small group of CFOs who work in the nonprofit sector in my community. I think it would be great to meet and trade ideas. My CEO says it's a conflict of interest, is it? Hey, why don't you run with this one? I'm curious. So, you know, I, well, first of all, anybody in the nonprofit sector, really in business, but especially in the nonprofit sector because we're dealing with donors, donor profiles, and even contracts and grants, which can be very competitive. They get really freaked out about sharing knowledge. So yeah, I can see that, that it would be a problem. But, you know, I was thinking about, this makes me think of our friends from your part-time controller, and which is a national accounting firm, a bookkeeping services financial management, you know, information company that just deals with the nonprofit sector. And this is not the same as the for-profit sector. There are, there's literally different vocabulary. There's all sorts of different requirements, IRS filings. And so I would imagine that a CFO would get a lot of support and glean information from another nonprofit CFO, you know? You know, maybe the whole thing of it is, is that you have some ground rules that you're like, we're never gonna discuss, you know, our donor profiles. We're not gonna talk about, I don't know. Yeah, certain things. But gosh, I don't know, Jared, it seems to me that that could really help. I think that helps tremendously. I'm all for it. And I do think that, yes, having, and I don't know that the group needs, well, as I say this, I'm contradicting like, yes, I think there should be ground rules for the group, but I think any professional really needs to have their own individualized ground rules and knowledge of what's appropriate, what's not appropriate to share. I am privy to so many internal documents, so many internal constituency bases that my clients truly have to trust me and my ethics that I am not sharing that from one organization to the other. But now I could see this as a wonderful opportunity, especially for CFOs. If this is a, let's say a roundtable discussion and some of you, some of the other CFOs also have perhaps a grant report that's required and maybe it's a reimbursement, you can learn from one another, right? How have you done this in the past? What have you learned about the process? This is what I am doing. Is there a better way to do this? And I hope that your CFOs and your community are willing to share some of those learning opportunities. There's CEO roundtables, right? There's director development roundtables. There's COO roundtables. So like I think when it comes to that CFO, I think we all need a safe space to share and learn from our peers, but absolutely come to it with, you know, your professional thinking cap on. Well, and I just feel like there's so much change in nonprofit accounting. And then if you add on nonprofit finance, that's like a whole nother thing. And it's the people that are generally tied to the hip with HR. And so think of all of the HR things. And we had that one company pay core that was talking to us about some new pay structures. Earned wages. Yeah, EWA. Earned wage access. Access. Yeah. And I was like, that's a CFO issue. Me too. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, you know, and also too, I'm not to get too woo-woo, but you cannot work in a place of fear. And you know, if everybody's out to get you and you're, you know, you don't work from that place of abundance. Yeah, hello. I came in with help from Baton Rouge. I help Louisiana and not Ohio. Wow, that's super interesting. I'm just like stunned by that. I really am, but okay. Well, let's get on to the next question. So this is an interesting thing. And again, this is almost like a similar concept. We have some staff members who think it would be a good idea to find a sister type of organization and another part of the country who provides the same service as we do. We are a food bank. Any ideas where to start? Joseph from Ogden, Utah. Google.com. Yeah, well, I would Google, you know, food banks in another specific area, but then I would also do some more due diligence and go to GuideStar, one of the charity watchdog organizations and look up their 990s, because when you are finding a sister type organization, are you looking at, you know, apples to apples when it comes to financial size? Are you looking at staff size? But, you know, like just kind of all of that. Again, Joseph, this goes to competitive and generic benchmarking, which I love. I think that, you know, that love grew out of me earning my Masters in Business Administration, but I loved researching financial and business practices and operations and efficiencies, right? Like I love nerding out into that like deep level as well. So I think, yes, another part of the country, absolutely. Another country, absolutely. Like I think there's so much to learn from other organizations and what they're doing. Feeding America, of course, I think it's gonna be one of your first additional research areas is who is a part of Feeding America? Might they connect you with a sister type organization and how you can continue? And I don't know, but I would hope you would contact them and not just be voyeuristic, but actually have that conversation with them of, hey, we would just like to share knowledge and wondering if you would be willing to share in return. You know what I would say, Joseph? Find another community anywhere in this country, but find a community that shares similar demographics. Yes. So that you can have some sort of shared conversations that you can apply. So for example, if your community abuts a tribal nation, if your community has a strong tourist bent or is recreational or is rural, I mean, it might kind of give you some ideas on shared experiences that you could implement. But yeah, I think it's a great idea. You know, it's funny, we've never had anyone ask about this to that same degree, like really an organized thing. It's like a sister cities concept. Yes, I like that. The big question I get often is from individuals that want to start an organization and they say, there's no one in my community doing this. First of all, I call BS on that. Sorry, but second of all, do your due diligence to research other communities. Where is something that you want to create? Where does it exist? In that sister type organization, where does it exist? How are they managing? And I coach all the time, pick up the phone, have a conversation, see if they might be willing to share with you. I love it. I think you're right. Okay, when we don't have much time, we've got time for one more question. So we'll have to go fast. The pandemic has taught me that I have been working too much. I would like to negotiate an added week of vacation before I ask my CEO, do you have any words of wisdom? I don't want to leave my nonprofit, but I need to get some rest. Patty from Jacksonville, Florida. That's a brave thing. Go ahead. Yes. But it's great. You know, it's the compassion fatigue. And I think, Jared, I don't know what you think, but I think it's okay to say, look, I don't want to leave and I don't want you to have to try and replace me, but I need some extra time. How do I negotiate this? What do we do? How do we manage this? So that if I am of value to you, I can remain, but I can remain strong. And I don't know, what do you think? I think that's great. Ironically, I am presenting a workshop on how to avoid burnout. And that is August the 27th. I, anyway, it is online, but maybe we can share more about that later. But one, I question, if you take this week off, well, you truly take the week off, right? Because we're so guilty of checking our emails, no matter where they are. So will you truly take that time off? Or might you consider a flex schedule or how might you also engage some additional boundaries to help protect your time? I've had to do that recently. And in fact, I just reneged on a commitment that I have next week, because I said it is imminent for my personal care that I take some items off my calendar. And if there is something that you can do like that, or if you have the privilege of delegating a task or a responsibility, do use that. But I say absolutely share with your supervisor that you are exhausted and on the brink of burnout. One of my favorite, favorite, favorite people is Miko Whitlock with a mindful techie. And I've really been following him in his self-care practices of being a mindful professional. So I think there's so much out there, but I do commend you for this brave question. It takes courage to stand up for yourself, but you are worth it. And the organization doesn't wanna lose you. Yeah. Truly. Well, another great fryer. Jared, thank you so much. Again, Julia Patrick been joined by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom. We've had a great, great conversation today. If you've got questions, you've got four ways to get ahold of us at least. So let us know what questions you've got and we will work with you on those. Again, our phenomenal and sincere gratitude to Fundraising Academy, they're gonna be joining us next week for our very first nonprofit power week. And so that's gonna be a lot of fun. So, yeah, we're looking forward to that. Again, thank you to all of our presenting sponsors, but you, we would not be here having such interesting conversations. Hey, Jared, have a restful weekend. I wish. I know I have a board governance training on Saturday. So that's gonna be an all day occasion. But thank you, Sunday's looking good. Shoot, sister. After, didn't you just hear yourself speak here? Yes, I know. Oh my gosh. Well, I'll let you know if I can't make Monday's episode. Yeah, I kind of feel like you should take the day off, sister. Hey, everybody, this is now more than ever to remind ourselves to stay well so we can do well. Have a great restful weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jared. Yeah, thanks.