 All right, well I have, I have 2.15 o'clock, so we'll go ahead and get started here. So we are obviously here for web user experience in 2020. That's been on the screen long enough that hopefully you've found that this is the right room for you and where you're wanting to go. So, you know, like as I proposed this talk back months ago, I was really excited about it. And the closer I got to it, the more I really spent time thinking about like, what on earth am I doing? Proposing, here we're talking about the web in 2020. But, but we're gonna do this, we're gonna make it and we're gonna refine what I think is happening because that's the way open source works. So just a little bit about myself, very briefly. I started off with the web as a developer late 90s, grew a team, became a CEO, ended up creating a product along the way. And now I work at Pantheon where I do agency and community outreach that gives me a chance to talk to lots of people in the industry, go to a lot of conferences, et cetera. I'm D. Gorton on Twitter and that is enough of a bio frankly about me. If you're interested, you can Google it or whatnot. So much of what I'm talking about though is really due to the credit of others. I've been spending a lot of time doing reading, research and it's heavily influenced by others. And so I'm giving lots of quotes throughout the talk that hopefully get you off to these other people who I think are really doing some really interesting sort of thinking about what's going on. The three minute version, if you wanna just like grab it right now, is that the world is getting more web-ish. Everything is getting much more interconnected. That's happening and it's gonna accelerate. At the same time, the web is getting less web-ish. The web that we know and understand and looks like websites are going to be less website-y. There's a lot of change coming. But I think we can be optimistic about that. Open Source won this last time and I think for the kinds of skills that we have as human beings to put us in this room here at Drupalcon in New Orleans in 2016, this room full of people has the skills to take advantage of all of this change that's coming and help drive it to the places that we want it to go. So I'll be talking about, so the things that I'll be talking about are like these forces that are changing the medium, hardware, the open web, software as a service, things in search and social and an awareness of those and some possible outcomes. So the things that I think will happen but I want everyone hopefully to be aware of all of these forces and come to your own conclusions as makes sense. I'm not gonna be talking about UI design techniques or user experience, sort of like processes, techniques, content strategy, et cetera. So if you're looking for those things, I won't be offended. There's a lot of great talks you can go check out. Check out the other ones. In each force I'm gonna talk about what's happening, what's going on, give an analogy or an example and then my prediction and then what I think we ought all of us ought to be doing in order to prepare for it. So I thought I'd just start off with however some sort of level setting here. There have been a lot of people who've gone out of their way to sort of predict the future and they're not always right. Thomas Edison about alternating current which is what we're using right now around us all the time. 1989 he thought it was no chance ever. 1955, this person ran a vacuum cleaner company and this is pretty much where he thought things were headed. The digital equipment corporation, you know it's kind of like a big beast, right? We've probably all seen this. No reason for an individual to have a computer in their home. Wow, I mean like that's pretty far off and this is from somebody who should have been future looking. This guy invented Ethernet. 3Com, huge networking thing. In 1995 he thought the whole thing was done in 96. We're looking out four years and we've all perhaps heard of this as well. Mr. Ballmer saying that the iPhone is the silliest thing it's never gonna get market share. That was in 2007 soon after it came out. I likewise am probably gonna say something really dumb. Hopefully it's just one but we'll find out in 2020. And another that's just sort of like again level setting. I'll be sharing some things by way of analogy because I think that can be helpful but as Mr. Freud points out really they may or may not be relevant. So let's go. So in 2020 Moore's law will be broken. It's already slowing down. This is not that dramatic of a prediction but I think it has a lot of impacts and I'm starting all the way down at this hardware level. Moore's law is the thing that was, it's called a law but it should not be called a law. Laws are like supposed to be for different things but anyways it was invented or coined, the term was coined in 1965 by someone who was a co-founder of Intel and the law is that every year things will get twice as fast. That that's what's gonna happen. This sort of evolution of speed on computer hardware and chips is gonna just keep doubling. How many of you have heard of Moore's law? Okay good, right. So it's not gonna hold. A lot of what we do today is predicated on this ever increasing speed and I think it sort of trickles throughout the ecosystem in interesting ways in ways that we don't appreciate. Like here we are, we do web design, we do these things in the web, we're like PHP and CSS. Like PHP is a long ways away from the transistors yet again it all flows through the system. I think there's two reasons that Moore's law will be broken. One is physics and that's just, that's kind of the way things are. Right now we're down to sort of the nanometer scale. A chip like the, it's 14 nanometers. That's not very many. At about five nanometers, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle comes into play and you know, you just have no idea what's going on. So you can't get like just physically, you just cannot get much smaller. But I think a more interesting reason that this will break is that things are getting to the point of good enough. And for an analogy, we're gonna look at the airplane industry. So in the 1930s there was the DC-3. In the 1940s the Stratocruiser came out. In the 1950s there was the 707. And the 1960s Pan Am created the Fly to the Moon Club, the first moon flights club. Because it was pretty much obvious that within about 10 years you were going to be able to fly to the moon. This whole thing was ever accelerating. And this is actually, this analogy comes by way of, I don't know how to pronounce his name, I'm not sure, but you're my, I don't know. So this gentleman gave this talk in 2014 in New Zealand. And the link down there will take it to you. It's great, you can go read the whole thing. But the point is, well that didn't happen, right? We do not start flying to the moon. Everyone was working on supersonic and that was going to be the next jump after the 707. And all of the great engineers in the world were working on it. And it just kept on being delayed. I don't know if anybody's ever been on a project that's delayed constantly. They had to, they had like the B team step in, peel off and say like, look, this project is behind, we're going to build the stop gap. And that was the 737. And that is basically the same airplane we're all still flying in today. It's slightly bigger, now 747. But you know like these, the numbers get a little bit more. But basically it's the same thing. Airplane travel got to the point where it was good enough. The problems of getting it faster were just not worth the costs of doing it. And that same thing is happening in the hardware space. So we have some pretty amazing, I mean like we all, here's my phone, right? We all know the analogy of like your phone is better than the whole thing that the astronauts were in on the way to the moon, right? We have a lot of computing power here. So ubiquity is going to be much more important than speed or will be happening. The focus on speed is no longer what will be driving things. Efficiency, like how many of us have battery problems on our phones already? Like the next problems are not speed. They're going to be specialized chips for specialized problems. So solving very difficult math problem for example or doing image recognition and other things. So it's going to be like the new sort of innovations in chips are going to be around very specialized problems. And that's going to lead to mass produced specialized devices. And we know about this, this is the internet of things. But it's here and it's accelerated. And I'm actually kind of curious, like how many of us in the room have one or more internet connected devices on them right now? One or more, two or more, keep holding. Two or more, three or more. Okay, four or more. Okay, actually I thought three, but I realized as I was preparing, I have four because I have a kindle lying around. Anyway, and somebody else might have one too. Like you don't even remember that this thing is connected. Right, why, like if you were to go back five years ago and say like here we are, let's talk, this is 2012. We're going to talk about the web in 2016. The idea that you would have four, three, multiple devices connected to the internet, that would be silly. Like why would you do that? Why, why would you do, there's no need for that. Like it's just going to be much more ubiquitous. This is going to accelerate and increase. And you're not even going to think about the fact that they're necessarily internet connected, right? Like again, my own personal example, I sort of forgot that the kindle counts. But there are other things too. And we're going to see much, much more of that. So again, what to do about this? Well, this is okay. Again, like this is, this is like way happening down deep. The world is getting more web-ish though. Like we're going to see these connections between phone and computer and other things, right? We know this world. We understand what it means to be interconnected. We're building systems that talk to other systems right now at our levels. And our web-ish sort of kung fu is strong. And so I think we should sort of go into this with some optimism, this new changing landscape and realize again, like the skills that we've got are ones that are going to be highly valued moving forward. And I do want to kind of reinforce that because some of the rest of this, like there's a lot of change coming and that can be scary, frankly. So all of those devices are going to have interfaces, right? Some of them are going to be interfaces that talk to humans. A lot of them are going to be the thing, like Nike's shoes. How many people saw Dries's keynote yesterday? I'm actually, I'd like to play just like a very brief snippet out of it. So this is a screenshot from it. And it's a prototype that actually was made. And we'll see if it's still queued up. Okay, I'm going to voice over this. So I was thinking that would come through better, but it's not. So anyways, Dries is introducing this as a concept. This is a grocery store near him that I think it was perhaps made up. Here's Dries saying, talking to Alexa and saying, I want to know what's on sale. Like how many, tell me about the groceries that are available nearby. Right, so we could all huddle around the projector. Oh, oh. See this open source. Yeah, get the other, can someone grab the other one? Microphone, I'll pause. Can someone grab the other microphone and just bring it over there? I'll queue this back up. I don't need to be able to use the website, but also to use Echo as well as push notifications and some of these things that I just talked about. So we built this in Drupal H and we recorded a demo of it. So I'm going to show you the demo. In the demo, I played a customer. All right. See the market, Alexa. That's Gourmet Market, but fruits are on sale today. Ask Gourmet Market, what fruits are on sale today. I have a lot of different stores. What's your zip code? So I can open it in here as well. What's your zip code? Okay, go get it. Zero, four, two. Is it going? Here's the fruit that's on sale. I'm going to open the market. Here's the fruit that's on sale. Apples are on sale. 50 cents a pound. Apples, such-and-such, bananas, such-and-such. You can open them, so I can help you. These are awesome, such-and-such. All right. So, slow it down here. And what's happening behind the scenes? So again, like this is the interface to a website. Right? How many of you have ever thought about the interface that designed your website that looks like this? It doesn't look like anything. So, Drupal is talking back to the back-end system. Coming back, where is, where is, where is, where is it? OxySauce isn't on sale right now, but I'll notify you when it is. What is your phone number? OxySauce comes back to the results of OxySauce right now. What's your code number? What's your phone number? It's not actually a real code number. Great. I'll let you know when OxySauce is on sale. And so, all right? I'll notify you as soon as it's on sale. And now, somebody goes into the website, goes to Google Avenue, goes, checks the box, it's on sale. Don't miss, don't miss OxySauce group. Is that a website? That is one example. The web is changing. Other interfaces coming as well, right? We have, so before, before Dree stole my thunder, I was gonna be talking about overlay actually. So, how many of us remember the Google Glass, right? Did anybody here get one? That's cool, actually. And I know somebody else who has one really enjoyed it. There was a little bit of a backlash against it. How many people have seen virtual reality kind of headsets and such? Has anybody had a chance to try one? It's kind of, so for those of you who've had, just like, yes, no, compelling? Yeah, I think large, highly compelling. If you haven't gone to, like, I'm gonna tell you about drone racing. And I will just say, like, if you have not seen drone racing YouTube videos, you should look at them. It's very interesting. It's a very exciting sport, effectively, that's going to be happening. Somewhere between the Google Glass and this big clunky thing you're wearing on your head, there will be, it will go somewhere between the two and augmented realities, as often been called, will start happening. And again, like, the ability to walk by, that same marketplace, look at it and see, apples are on sale, that same kind of interface is going to be happening. And this is also, again, APIs. There will still be screens, I think. It's not that far away. But more and more, the things that we are producing will be put out in very dramatically different mediums. And we know, so just looking at an analogy, something from our own experience, right? We know that there will need to be a single place for the information to be stored, right? How many people remember the bad mobile site days, right? Whereas, like, here's the regular website and here's the other website that has some of the things but not the ones you're looking for. The optimized experience. And here we are, this is actually from 2014. We know that this is a fail. Like, you will have a single place that stores all of the information. Nobody wants to maintain it in multiple places. And that single place is going to look a lot like Drupal. So, what to do about this? Like, that's a little bit daunting. If you do this stuff professionally, you should be looking at headless Drupal. How many people, I say headless Drupal, how many people have started using, building things that are headless Drupal sites? Cool, all right. Hopefully, by next year, you can all raise your hands. I really think you ought to be doing it. Increasingly, you should be building things that have integrations and APIs. Do projects, find projects, seek them out, get ahead of this curve, right? Seek out projects that can push your content elsewhere. Push it out to mobile devices, push it out to wherever. Start talking to systems. So if you've already started this, congratulations. Good, double down, do more of it. These skills are gonna be in super high demand. If you haven't already, it's okay. I mean, we're all busy, and this hopefully is a conference and one of the things we do at a conference is we sort of open our minds and think about what's coming. It's not too late, but start moving. Start doing it. The open web, there's been a lot of blogging recently about the open web, and that's the concept that the web, as we remember it from the early 2000s, is going away, and the old experience of being able to sort of serendipitously find interesting content is becoming harder and harder, and more and more of our journeys start with Facebook or Google or Apple or other places. And so a lot of people have been blogging, like what's the role of Drupal in a world that has these huge giants sort of bubbling up? And I think the open web will win, but it's gonna look very different. And the reason I think the open web will win is because, again, sort of looking back to, we've seen this before. The browser wars happened in the late 90s, right? And the two things, it was just two giants that we were sort of caught between. It was Netscape and Internet Explorer. Neither of them's so big a factor today. Internet Explorer started pulling ahead. In the meantime, the web standard project came out and said, this is ridiculous. I do not wanna build JavaScript 13 different, well, two different ways. And have this, in order for this site to look and behave the same, I have to code it basically twice. It was ridiculous. And our industry basically started stamping our feet and said, no, no more of this. The browser, they kind of ignored it a little bit. They're like, well, it's kind of interesting, but we've got our own ideas, why would we pay attention? As soon as IE started pulling away, Netscape came to the rescue and said, actually, we've been about this the whole time. This is what we were hoping to do as well. And so I think this same thing is going to happen with the open web. I think, so Google is pushing formats, Facebook is pushing formats. I don't think we need to sweat those. I'm not saying ignore them, but don't, I don't think we should also be worried that you have to do every single one. If you need to for a project, so accelerated mobile pages, has anyone here done an accelerated mobile pages project? At least some people, yeah, I know. You guys have done some great work on it. Some very cool work on it, low about that. FI, Facebook, instant articles, thank you, right? There will be other formats. They will come out. It will happen. Don't ignore them, educate yourself on them, but also they're probably going to be a little bit fattish. And I would say help build an open web movement. Like again, we need it. One of the things I spent some time on as I was preparing these slides was trying to come up with a name for this. I spent too much time on that, in fact, actually, and I just left it with open web movement. So help build that, help create that. We know how to do that sort of thing. And support it as it emerges as well. Big data in 2020. So Edward Snowden, it was actually three years ago that this happened, right? Massive leak of basically U.S. government malfeasance. Like the government digging into all of our privacy, doing a lot of stuff, just the amount of data that it was gathering was obnoxious, right? This caused repercussions around the world and continues to do so. Just last month, the European Union came out and declared that everyone has the right to the protection of their personal data. This, the EU is ahead of us in many ways and sort of in data protection and privacy, but the idea that data belongs to the person, not the organization that collects it, is definitely, like that is where we're headed. And I think rightly so. And I think in 2013, we saw Edward Snowden with U.S. government, Facebook and Google and Amazon have Edward Snowden's embedded inside of them, right? There's somebody at some point in time, you know, step forth, right? The amount of data that's being collected by it, like there's so much of it, someone else will at some point step forth and say like, here's what's going on at this company. I believe that will happen. And if it doesn't happen, via an Edward Snowden inside of one of those companies, here's a picture of the information hack, like the data breaches that have happened in just the last while. This is from a site called InformationsBeautiful.net. 2014 at the bottom, latest things, you know, 80 million records, 191 million records. Mosac Fonseca, like up there in the top, that's quite recent. More and more data will come out and more and more outreach is gonna grow. Like, that's not cool, right? How much of our personal lives are being tracked in ways. European Union is ahead here. And so what do we do about that? Again, this is sort of like at the theoretical level, but support data privacy standards as they're emerging. And I would say here, specifically, all of us in this room who build sites for clients, be aware that we're a part of that chain too. So get educated on security. Web security is a real thing. There were a couple talks here yesterday. There are more this week. And really protect personally identifiable information. We all have a responsibility. Make sure that your future self is in a safe place when it comes to things like liability. But then also just do the right thing. It's very approachable too. How many of us would like to raise our rates? All right, if you became the security people, you have a differentiator, right? If you are working at a firm or an agency that is all about security or has that a very strong thing, that's definitely differentiator. And again, it's the right thing to do, but it's also a good thing for business. In 2020, software is growing already, but it's just gonna keep accelerating. Software as a service in particular is going to grow and get bigger. More and more services are going to be commoditized. And I think search and social will be regulated. So software as a service is, well let's actually, let's look at the screenshot here. So services commoditized and search and social are regulated. So here's a Google for primary results from, oh, I don't know, about a month or two ago. And you'll see that rather than coming back with new stories, it's giving you the actual results. And a very nice, easily accessible, this is a great user experience. Like I typed it in, I got feedback instantly. It tells me who's ahead, what the things are. I can scroll down, click in for more information. Google is heavily incented to produce these great user experiences. It's going out, scouring the web for all of the information it can, presenting it back on the nicest way that it can. To the extent that, and actually I'm gonna just jump ahead to another more concrete example. This is a restaurant near me in Minnesota. Tide Curry House, great food. Highly recommended if you're ever in the neighborhood. Their website is kind of lousy. When I Google Tide Curry House, I wanna know are they open today? I wanna know maybe their phone number so I can call ahead and do reservation. And when I'm doing, if I'm not familiar with it, it's great to see examples of the food and maybe what's on the menu. That's all available over here in the Google view. Over here on the left side is their actual website. The phone number is actually a picture of the phone number. That's terrible. I can't, if I'm on my mobile, I actually have to remember it and come back to the number. Like, don't take a picture of text, it breaks the internet. That's a great user experience, but as people who build websites, that's also alarming. What do we do with this? And here's what I think we need to do. Like to the extent that you have commoditizable clients like menus, movie listings, other things like that. Again, you need to either get out of it, like don't serve those clients or go deep. And you can choose which way, but you have to make the choice rather than have it be made for you. And by deep, what I mean is you're going to need to understand all of the things about being a restaurant and really help them, help them forecast a man. Usually, you know, first day of the month, you normally see more people or whatever it is. Like understand what they do deeply, help them order supplies, help them with mobile ordering, maybe somebody's walking by, they can like, hey, that smells great. Make it really easy for somebody to order things on their phone. So specialize, find a vertical, and don't understand it deeply and don't make yourself easily displacable. Again, the world is getting webier, the web less so, right? And I'm realizing I'm just burning through time. I knew that we would have time for questions and such, but we're going to be there soon. So let's talk about web design. Design itself, again, like is going across, I think a lot of, again, a lot of interfaces, but to the extent that we're looking at it on a screen, be it this big or that big or some other size, we're at a phase right now where we're seeing more digitization, right? And this again, the web still is actually very webby in that we're embedding pieces from different places, right? We're seeing the Twitter embed as a simple example, but there are pieces being embedded across websites constantly, and that will grow and increase. One of the opportunities, again, I think for all of us is the fact that that can slow things down, and there is going to be a huge, as the demand grows for those things, the demand to do it quickly and efficiently and securely will likewise be there. Huge opportunities for people in this room. The actual trend, so things like, so that's what I mean by the digitization, is there an increasing. Microformats and web components are examples of this, where we see like these very small, tight things, little components that can be shared around between sites. I think visually, this is a very compelling article written by a guy whose name I forget, but URL is there, and I should also say it, the slides will be posted on this node for the, I'll do that actually, maybe when we get to questions and answers, so you can actually go check these things out. In any case, it makes a really interesting analogy to sort of tracking the history of web design to where we are, like to architecture. It starts off with classical and Romanesque and whoops, and not Romanesque twice, type on the slides, but basically that these are in phases, and right now we're in Renaissance, based on again like the sort of like the clean lines and the way things look, and I think it's actually very interesting to look ahead and say Baroque and Neoclassical are coming, and I think there's actually something to that. Again, like all of this stuff, screens are not going away, there are going to be some interesting trends. Baroque is much more flowery, and I think like things like CSS shapes are going to come soon, say 2017, 2018, and then it'll be sort of like a return to much more simpler things coming not long after that, Neoclassical. One of the things that I think this medium has constantly taught me, and I hope we all remember, is that this is a humbling medium to work in, right? So user experience always belongs to the future, the future user, and you don't know how they're going to be accessing things, and we need to be aware that the way that we do it now is ephemeral, and how people experience it years from now is going to be the way it is experienced, right? And so rather than like tightly trying to control things and really going for something that's very precious, being very much more open with the way that we do things and knowing that I'm not sure exactly how this is going to be used, I'm just going to try and make it as usable as it possibly can be right now. So what's the role of open source in all of this? So again, we know how to do this. We deeply understand what it means to be an interconnected world, like we know, that's what we do all the time. We know how things fit together. We know, we design experiences, we build systems. We know how these things could and should fit together. That's an opportunity, and our futures might involve sort of jumping out of some of the boundaries that we're in right now, but these skills that we've built to get here are tremendously valuable and absolutely what the world will need. We also know how to make ideas better, right? Open source won the web, right? We can do this again, like the world is changing, but open source runs the web, and that has come for the code, stay for the people. I think a lot of that is about the way cultures of open source communities work, right? The way in which we know how to iterate on ideas, share them, improve them, and make them better. I think we also have a role to play in assembling around some causes that are needed. So data privacy standards amongst them. And we also like building things. We like making things. We're gonna push this technology further. Has anyone, after seeing Drees' keynote, has anyone yet installed the Alexa module on a Drupal site? I have not, but I'm kind of excited, right? Like, this is a bright new future. There's a lot of stuff there, and we can help make all of those things happen. So, again, the world is getting more web-ish. Everything we do is going to be more deeply connected to everything else around it. At the same time, the web that we know today is gonna be less web-ish. It's less like the website of that Thai Curry House. And that's okay. But there's a lot of opportunity for all of us as that future happens. And that is what I wanted to talk about. Thank you. So, happy for questions, and I also, like having been the person talking for a while, I do believe that people in this room have insights here, and so I would encourage a conversation as well. So we can do questions for a little bit, but then maybe it turns into a boss format after that. I'm sorry, if you do have a question, please come up to the mic so they can be recorded for future attendees. Yeah, yeah, sorry, it's right in the middle. Thank you, yeah. I recently used a VR headset that came with my Samsung. And my question is, what do you think it can be used for that's more practical and useful versus much of what I see on it, which is more like fun and games, but how do you see it being used for maybe a tool? You know what I mean? Yeah, I think, so I don't know. And I think that's a little bit like predicting the nuclear powered vacuum cleaner. I think we can have a sense for it. My sense is that it will look like something more like Google Glass. Like, again, right now it's a very big, clunky, restricting kind of thing, like the Oculus Rift, you've got your tethered, don't move too far. But as this gets smaller and lighter and more efficient and, again, ubiquitous, these kinds of things, these kinds of devices, like chips that will make this easier and require less stuff around, I think it will look a lot more like the overlay on the world. And it might be like, for example, medical professionals while you're doing surgery, you're going to see something where you're like, like you're in here, there's maybe a little heads up sort of thing saying like, oh, watch out for that artery or whatever it is. Hopefully they know that already, but you're like, probably more helpful would be like, interesting characteristics of this artery. That looks like it could be some kind of condition. You should be aware of that. Maybe that's aware of the system then and says, hey, wow, anesthesiologist, you might need to adjust something here because of what we're seeing inside this. And so it could be both instructive as well as sharing. Right. So definitely AR is more useful. I think so. But go back to the quotes. I'm sure I said at least one dumb thing. Thank you. Yeah. Mr. Gordon. Hey, man. Thank you for this presentation. It's pretty awesome. Thank you. So one of the first things you talked about was the hardware side of things. And I've been a pretty avid follower of the advances recently in quantum computing. Yes. Where, which basically promises tenfold increases or logarithmic increases in computing power. Yeah. As Drupal development companies, how should we prepare for this today? Okay. So here's maybe my stupid thing. I don't think it's gonna take off. I think again, we're at good enough. And I think what we're going to be, so chip manufacturers, so I should say this, it will exist. It will come. And I think there's other things too, like sort of like DNA processing and other things, like some really interesting things happening out there in the forefront of computers. But I think what chip manufacturers have come up with today to get us to this point is pretty good. And displacing that out of the sort of very specialized things, very specialized use cases where you're doing incredibly heavy processing, you're not gonna have the investment in the industry in order to produce that kind of hardware on any scale for anything less than billions and billions of dollars. And I think that investment's gonna be very hard to make when, you know, I'm looking for cats, right? So it may happen. That's why, you know, like I only went to 2020, you know, like, you know, but I think it's further out before there's any real serious impact around us. So I have another question if I... Oh, sorry. Is there anybody behind me? So I've worked on one decoupled website. And frankly, I think the developer just wanted to decouple it. I don't think there's really any compelling reason for them to do so, which is fine. Sometimes you just do those things. But the trouble that I ran into was the discovery side of content, which is, you know, how difficult that decoupling made it for me to get that content indexed in Google and other search methodologies. So my question is, as we move further away, the web moves further away from, you know, being webby where you get these maybe audio interfaces, how is discovery of, say, knowing that I could ask that, even if my local grocery store has bananas on sale today, you know, becomes like it's, how am I gonna, how are we all gonna figure this stuff out? You know, how's my mother-in-law gonna figure out that she can talk to her phone and it's gonna tell her these things? So one of the things that Google pretty early on, maybe not that early on, but maybe five or six years ago, I watched a presentation at Bad Camp and they talked about the door, the sliding door at, in the Google, you've heard this analogy, right? So, you know, in their cafeteria, they have a sliding door that automatically opens and then they have a manual door that you have to pull open, but sometimes the sliding door doesn't work and so everybody uses the manual door because you don't wanna be the guy that walks into the sliding door, right? I mean, so if you don't trust that it's gonna be there. Well, we're all using Siri and stuff today and I know Siri has all these new capabilities, but I still pretty much just ask her to call my wife for me, right? So, how are we gonna be able to embed discovery into the development process? Sorry, very long-winded question. Yeah, so discovery of how these, like, yeah, so as all of this bewildering technology happens around us, how will we know what it can do? It's kind of, maybe, sorta. You know, I think, I really think it's gradual. I mean, like, and again, I think it's environmental and it will happen, but for this all I can do is sort of look to the past. Again, maybe to that how many of us would have made any sense of the fact that you would have multiple devices on your person connected to the internet. Again, just go back, I don't think, is it five years? Is five years far enough for that to be a weird thing? It's maybe 10. 10 for sure, yet now we take it for granted and I think that that same kind of evolution is happening. As we see Siri, we see our friend do it, we see somebody, like, again, like, how do we learn anything in life? You know, like, you see some of you ask, oh, how'd you do that? Or you read a blog post about it and I think, again, that's a lot of the ubiquitousness that I think is going to be ever more all around. It's just here, it's like, I wear clothing, I have these devices, you know, like, it's not that special. I don't know, does anybody else have opinions on that? You can step up to the mic and share them, certainly. All right, another question, yeah. What I need to say to ask my Alexa for a quarter of a day, so that's a really interesting question. You had a term that you mentioned earlier called Open Web, and I'm not sure if I quite understood that, did you mean, like, a more open source? You had four large companies out there. Right, this guy, yeah, okay. So I would say, so first report, well, this actually came out of a, this is a nice image that Dries had. He gave a presentation at South by Southwest, so it comes from that. So there's a lot of, so I'll give you a short answer, but I would just say, google the term Open Web and you'll see a lot of people writing about it right now, including people like Dries, Sir Matt Mullenweg, who's the Dries equivalent in WordPress, and it's the idea that once upon a time we all had these little websites, and you would sort of hop back and forth to these websites, and it was just like a lot, it was wide open, open in sort of like the, you know, like broad frontier kind of web, and the closed web, the opposite of the open web, is more about the fact that there's these walled gardens coming up. So Facebook wants to hold all of the content. It wants to grab the content from you. Google kind of wants to do this. Google's like an interesting spot. Like they want to present you this great information about the Thai Curry House, but in order to do that they need to get, they need to have that information come from Thai Curry House, from their website. That's the way they get it right now. So they're sort of both bypassing in some ways the website as well as really super dependent on it. Anyways, so Google, Facebook, Twitter, Twitter to some extent, but LinkedIn, Amazon, like these big ecosystems, Apple certainly have, like they're holding the content and they want to keep you there, right? So that's what the idea is, and there's a lot of, again, dialogue happening around it, and more articulate answers than that, but that's the basic concept. That's where you are right now, at the bottom of one of your slides you say, search and social will be regulated. I'm thinking about November 8th in this country, 2016, and if we're looking forward to 2020, can you expand on that a little more? Who exactly and how exactly do you imagine search and social being regulated? Because honestly I gotta say, looking at it from where we are now and from where we sit, and imagining what November 9th is gonna be like, I cannot imagine how that will happen by 2020. Well, I think, so governments as slow and ponderous as they are also react quickly when threatened, and I think for politicians to realize that Facebook could skew the election based on the kinds of articles they present, or Google to do the same, is going to be like sort of, that's the self-preservation button, or like the gene kicks in, like, and so I think very specifically related to elections, that is what will push these things forward. Again, like as is happening, and again, we see it already happening in European Union in sort of data privacy kinds of things, like that is really gathering steam and such, but I think there's been, like, and again, at least this is not my own original idea, but there will be like some sort of algorithmic oversight, like Facebook must have like the FDA, like actually, Dries called this something like the FDA of algorithms, like there will be basically some sort of oversight body which says you can't skew elections, and also maybe some other stuff, but that's the one that's going to motivate it. That's what I think. Again, at least one stupid thing in here, but. Five years. Five years. That's great, thank you, yeah. Yeah, right, yeah. I have somewhat of a convoluted question, and it's a three-parter with slides. Okay, all right. So, no, actually, it has to do with the open, a couple slides back, where open web Facebook. Yep. Okay, so if there's like an open web with Amazon, Google, Facebook, and I click on any of those, and basically looking at pants from somewhere. And I go to Facebook, and I've seen that on Amazon, and now Amazon is trying to sell me pants from Facebook. In a screenless environment for 2020 web, how is it that, one, and then if you go forward with the Edwards-Nodin, like how is the big data of me wanting to buy pants through Facebook? I love the example. Yeah, thank you. On Amazon, with the convoluted cookies being passed back and forth in a screenless environment, I wonder what prediction do you have in the pants buying metaphor of that environment? I mean, if that's... There's a lot of pieces. I'll try and take some of those pieces. All right, so I think Facebook and Amazon, again, there will be, I think, standards that emerge to solve this exact problem. And everybody's gonna come up with their own until one of them starts pulling ahead. And then, the rest of the group, like Google is not going to buy Apple, again. I'm just rife with, I'm sure, hyper-accurate predictions. But I don't think they're all gonna buy each other. And that means there are going to be forces, like sort of mediating forces. And if one of them just starts being too big, I think the others are going to jump on board if we have something ready for them to jump on board with. Again, like the Web Standards Project, right? And so if we start thinking about that problem right now and start formulating, again, via the technology, this is how it should work. This is the way, like, here's the protocol. This is, like, and have data security and other things in mind. They will jump on board, especially if one of them starts pulling away. So that's part of the answer. And then buying pants via voice is part of the question, too. And I'm not sure what's that part. So the first part was the data, where one of them will pull away. The second one is the pants buying, where I don't really want to buy pants, I want the option presented to me. How do you envision that happening in a screenless environment? Oh, so. Where I'm asking whoever for sale on Apple's, and they say, oh yeah, Apple's are absolutely on sale. Buy some pants? I mean, is that, like, in a screenless environment, how is that going to be? Oh, got it, right, right, right, right. Where is the? I'm rife with a sidebar about stuff that I've accidentally or intentionally looked on. You're talking about a sidebar content, yeah. How does that present itself in a screenless environment? End caps, yes, yeah, exactly, right. So, yeah, where's the banner ad? Yeah, how do you do a banner ad? This Apple update brought to you by pants. Pants. Possibly, you know, like, so look to radio. Like, again, like, sort of like, oftentimes you can look back the ways. Like, I haven't really thought about this very much, but I'll give you what, you know. I'm thinking about it now, so I'll give you what I got. I would say I would look to the past. I would say, how does radio do that now, right? And it's like interstitial messages and bumpers and such. And, you know, being aware, like, there's a little pre, you know, roll in and such or podcasting or something like that. Again, and it's not necessarily, not every medium is gonna be appropriate for every single thing. Like, so banner ads over audible, auditory interfaces, probably not gonna be super effective. I mean, some, but it's gonna lend itself to different things, maybe. All right, well thank you, everybody. I'm happy to keep talking. Thank you.