 Hello, and welcome back to the Think Tech Hawaii studios for this episode of Security Matters Hawaii. Today we have an amazing guest, Dr. Flo Fawaii is going to join us from the Hybrid Leadership Institute and he is also a fellow of the Institute of Information Management and many credentialed a global expert on leadership and I think a global student of leadership as well as you'll find. And our industry, the security industry in particular is flexing through leadership changes. So I want to welcome Dr. Flo Fawaii and thank you for joining us today. We need all the leadership help we can get. Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here today. Great. Go ahead and I guess brief our audience a little bit on as much of your history as you'd like to share. Give them a little sense of yourself. Thank you. So I want to get glad to be here and as a world background, I actually function now as the founder of the Hybrid Leadership Institute. We're doing research and providing content and information around what I call a different way of meeting people, especially diverse people. I want to talk about diverse people, talking about perspective, talking about expectation and talking about people who have different ways of working and different ways of really coming and showing up in the offices or in the businesses. And one key thing that drives that different is the what I call the cultural element. There's a lot that goes with how many of us are raised, how we were raised, where we were raised, with what we were raised and all of those things really influence that aspect and really shape how we lead, act and behave as individuals. So that's alongside and the other side of my work is also around executive culture at Salon Consulting, the United States and the United States. One of the things that we do in that space is actually helping leaders like yourself, like your listeners who really are looking to continue to improve what they're doing and need to maximize their value in their respective industry. I really challenge them to think and consider different perspectives that they're not comfortable with or they haven't considered at all. So that's in a nutshell kind of what I do. I think we're getting into the conversation. We'll talk some more about my background and family and what have you if you have time. Excellent, excellent. I can tell you that we have a phenomenon in our industry where too many old guys and I'll get to the problem that I think we have with that I think in the second half. But you have a perspective that really caught my eye in hybrid leadership and the idea that especially people from maybe multicultural backgrounds who are bringing a different type of thought because they're able to think multicultural at one time on a problem and that perspective is something that's available to us today but we're perhaps not leveraging enough. Could you give us some of the background of where that came from and some of your experience with those ideas? Absolutely. So I call myself a hybrid and I think for those who are listening I remember what does it mean to be a hybrid? I think to say it means to be at least a product of more than one culture. And in many instances you're functioning without even a sense of awareness of which of the cultural influences that were. A good example of the hybrid craft, for example, for some people who are wondering what example can I use to equate that to? I'll talk about a hybrid craft. When a car, a hybrid craft, for example, a prison or even between eco-friendly vehicles that are in motion or in use, you, the driver, or perhaps you, the passenger might have an idea of which mode you're in. It might be an electric or it might be a gas. But those on the outside do not have any inkling or any idea which mode is actually at work. And the question really is why is that important? The analogy that I use in leadership is that there are many individuals in our sensitive spaces who are like hybrid vehicles that get in different modes at play. You don't see that, right? Because you're looking to move from one point to the next point or next to the A to B. So you're focused on just transportation. But there is this process of transportation exactly within. Now, there is an awareness for some of the reasons of green technology about protecting the climate. So there is more to that individual than just driving a car. So that's sort of the idea around hybrid principle that there is a sense of there are certain values that are very critical and important to the individual that really show up or inform their decisions. And if you as a leader is able to talk into that, it's able to understand what is moving people, what emotional dimension, what cultural input, what perhaps passion and intimate, strong, passionate desire they have within them, that they have their training, their culture in particular, that is informing their leadership if actually position you as an individual, as a leader of another organization, to be able to get more from people than you probably would have if you did not have any awareness of that particular individual's ability or even interest. So that's where that came from. So I went ahead and did a whole study for my post-gathering, my PhD, around, and I did my dissertation on that premise of hybrid leadership. Everybody talks about global leadership, everybody talks about global citizenship, but there is a dimension to that that is very vital. And that's where I researched that element of culture and I was able to deduce from my research that it does play a significant role in helping to show how people work, how people think, how they engage. And if we talk into that, that's an amazing bank of information and goodwill that we're able to do more better than we probably would have done if we just, I really am blind or afraid or oblivious to some of these factors. Was that helpful? Yeah, very much so. Do you think that, I will call it hybrid, do you think hybrid leaders, or did you come across a day that indicated they had a higher levels of, people talk about emotional intelligence, people talk about empathy, do you think they have just a broader perspective of those types of ideas because elements of maybe multiple cultures are involved in their processing of information that's coming at them? Yes, absolutely. In fact, the data and the research shows that in many instances, they're indirectly to a higher level of empathy. Okay. They're also able to a higher level of emotional intelligence. In fact, according to the data, we saw that when people actually gravitate into spaces, in our research, I found that they act almost like a chameleon. You know, a chameleon has to be steps to an environment and shapes to become like, so a hypothetical scenario is, for example, if you, let's assume that you are, for example, of true culture, when you're coming into a space with those dual cultural dimensions within you, when we get into the states where one culture is perhaps predominant over the other, you adapt and adapt to the predominant culture because to present the other cultures, I'm pretty sure it's kind of a weakness, right? So you show your strength by adapting to the predominant culture. The good news is that don't remain only in that state. You have what we call a secondary culture of playing and your ability to actually either bring deeper talks, deeper focus, and perhaps brought a viewpoint to the conversation that you probably wouldn't even have because you either have a multicultural or exposed to only one particular disposition. So the research supports that and your approach to really how they act or how hybrids, I call myself a hybrids leader, how we act, all of those scenarios are amazing. In an American environment, you become more American. In the same efficient environment, you adapt to more of these bridges. Are you able to read people's perspective? Are you able to bring just emotionally the energy in the room and be able to adapt appropriately? So you're certain. The hybrids phenomenon is fascinating to observe. It does mean that there's a high level of awareness, self-awareness, and also a high level of ability to read and adapt to such a people. You know, it brings to mind, I wonder if hybrid leaders, when they're acting, perhaps in a room, let's say an American room, but they also have a British perspective of themselves. Like, you know, the whole thing of being outside yourself and looking. So is there like a, I remember from Jamesian psychology, like co-conscious states. I wonder, is that going on? Like, is there a little, not necessarily a conflict, but an awareness that someone who isn't multicultural wouldn't have just during dialogue or making a statement or even listening to others that, wow, my American brain thinks this, while my other one thinks that at the same time. Yeah, so I love how you post that because for me, and I'll give you my personal example, when I was going through this, you can, I'm writing my research also from a participant perspective to say, I also go through this phenomenon and I struggle sometimes in capturing all of this emotional even within myself. And the struggle that we have with that is this idea of authenticity. You know, you ask the question around because I'm able to adapt, am I authentic? Am I able to flex? Am I valid? Am I being sincere? Right, and so people question that, both with me and also without. And what has happened is that with more understanding of this perspective and also the phenomenon, people have become more comfortable in that out-of-body experience that you're living to work. You step back and ask yourself, who's that guy, right? I don't know, girl. I've been on a speech in this way, and then you step back and you realize that you're projecting this particular dimension of yourself and you're being authentic in that dimension. And if you have to pivot to a different one, you're also being authentic. And it's very serious. It's almost an automatic brain switch that is going on, which is quite fascinating as well. We saw this as we looked at expatriates who spend significant time away from their own conscience as soon as they get into a new culture. They, and this is one way to measure, is that when you go back to where they came from, they see more and they sense more, and they are not aware. So they become even more tolerant. They're able to do more ambiguity. They're able to actually understand differences in the broader scale, and it's not that you're losing yourself without you enhancing yourself to become really better. Yeah, I think of the idea of having a sort of a 360 degree view of things, but then having it twice. Like, you know if you're in the center of the ball looking in all directions, but then there's like another ball or you can move between the balls, or if it's occurring at the same time, I guess they're like this and you're inside both. So looking at any one thing through two perspectives at one time. It's a gift, I think. It is, and I think the more you become aware of it, the better position you become, right? So in my leadership and executive coaching and practice and profession, we do a lot of 360 degree feedback, a lot of how you put that out, because it's a very powerful tool that allows you to see yourself from the angle that you can see. So it gives you kind of a line of sight into your blind spot is what that is supposed to do. The first thing I find, right? Where even though I see myself in a different dimension in terms of engagement, there's a few blind spots that exist because you can't see everything perfectly. And so when leaders, and it doesn't matter what industry, specifically we're focused on the security industry, I think the amazing opportunity to exist in this space as well, is that when we engage people, we should also understand that people are not just non-dimensional, right? When there's one lens, they try to solve all the problems where if I remove this for that, or this part, it fixes X. Does it fix Y, Z? Does it fix the entire globe? And to look at what are the vulnerabilities that might exist across a matter of description, right? Or is that a spectrum of options? So it's a very fascinating topic, and I can talk about this at a very low level, as you can tell. So I'll pass this to that. Good, we are, I'll tell you what we will do, we'll take a one minute break and we're gonna come back and we're gonna get into this some more. We'll be back in just a moment, thank you. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I'm getting older. Do I need to worry about falling? Yes, you do. Each year, one in four people, 65 and older, will experience a fall, and many will be serious. The majority of falls happen at home, so remove things that could make you trip and install handrails to keep you steady. To learn more about the steps you can take to help prevent a fall, please talk to your doctor. You can also visit aarpfoundation.org or Medicaremadeclear.com slash falls. This message was brought to you by UnitedHealthcare and AARP Foundation. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, empower, and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. and we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. Hey, Aloha, and welcome back to this episode of Security Matters Hawaii. We're with Dr. Flo Phalay from the Hybrid Leadership Institute. And I'm gonna take some of these concepts we've been discussing and kind of, I'm gonna kind of beat up my industry a little bit, the security industry. I was talking with Dr. Phalay yesterday, and I was telling him how I go to security conferences around the country, and they're full of a room that looks like bowling balls. Old bald-headed guys who've been in the industry for 40 years, they all sit around and agree with themselves about everything, and knowledge is hard to move forward. You know, the cybersecurity, the merging or the layer of cybersecurity on the physical security industry has been a problem for many of them to adopt, just for example. They've known about the problem for years, but not done anything. So, paralysis can occur in leadership when you have too much agreement, not enough variability, not enough diversity of thought. And our industry's been growing its gender diversity and they're proud to, we've got 5% women when we had none. Okay, so I don't consider that a gain yet. You know, when it's 50-50, I'll say we got somewhere. But in this realm of hybrid leadership, what do you think our industry leadership can take away from sort of the problem of, you know, not retiring soon enough. I don't know how to be nice, nice enough to say they need to get out of the way. What are your thoughts there? I mean, I'll give them that legacy experience has value and they need to mentor, but how can we get them to move on and give them confidence that new thought is gonna be better than the old thought? Maybe, I don't know. That's a good, that's a good question. Sorry, yeah. I'd like to tell you right now that that is not only specific to the real industry. Okay. So if that gives you any purpose, you know. Thank you. Hopefully. Yeah, because I'm one of those. I'm one of those that needs to move on. Okay, I know. I know, I'm not happy with how you know that. I know that. But this is the kind of decision that we must have. One is that we must change how we're positioning the exchange. We're making the exchange a win or lose, lose this proposition. We're saying, you go away, right? Let's earn us come in. I think what we need to do is to say, we're going to go take this higher level of position where you're paying more of a strategic advisory role and you're like the counsel of elders. If, you know, for a lot of better work. Okay. And allow the, you have a new perspective with diverse leaders to stepping into those roles where they were for the team for the past 10, 15, 40 years, right? So it's an exchange. It's saying, you go take on a more extinct role and opportunity. Why would you go do what you're trying to do and knocking on the door and pushing and screaming to give them more of an opportunity at the table? It means making the people bigger. It also means coming to the conversation with a sense of this is not an all-encompassing viewpoint that we have. And we're going to have more diversity of talks, diversity of insights, diversity in terms of questions, diversity in terms of possibilities and solutions. Because where we're going is actually, a lack of better words like a wild, wild west, right? We can need different types of thinkers. We need different types of doers. And that's where the hybrid leadership is also helpful in challenging people to say, to think differently. And we celebrate the gradual assimilation of, I'll say, female, more gender-focused inclusion. But I think there's something to be a cultural inclusion as well, especially because of globalization and technology. Yes. Literally, we are connected to the same space. So why should our leadership be limited by space, right? Why and how we leverage technology to allow us to have significant diversity of thought, solution, approach, I know how the open source is built, where multiple people can come to the same space and solve problems. So the hybrid fairness is saying, look, get different kinds of people on the table. You know, don't keep serving and waiting for the future. The future is now. The future is there. People with diversity already here, bring them to the table, ask their opinion, engage them, step up a little bit, give them an opportunity, on what, you know, not a better one, what your social plan begins to take root without even you leaving after yet. But see the exchange as a win-win and not the lose-leaves, right? So I think that's how I answer that question. I agree, in your studies of leadership, is that thing I'm alluding to about guys not moving off soon enough, is it fear of not being valid any longer, you know? Is that a component that makes them, I mean, look, I'm like, you're 75, go retire, you know, but they're still there. I don't, are they afraid to not be relative or is that a psychological thing or? So at these days, that's a play as well, right? They, I think it's also human nature that is actually influencing a lot of kind of how people perceive red events. And the conversation and the challenge is that with advancement in health, with advancement in, you know, wellness, for example, people who typically would have considered retirement at something age 60, 65, 70, unless, you know, they were much earlier, are still vibrant and young, they're able to do stuff that they were doing in their 50s. So there's this sense of why am I leaving when I'm still, I feel the same way as 20 years ago. So there's that dimension. So we're going to be able to look at that and say, let's have that conversation around with the structure perhaps that we have today, was it designed effectively for what we are doing? You know, where the 70s are the new 50s and 90s the new 70s and how might even the organizational structure support that heavy infusion of silence? So I think that's part of the conversation I'm going to have. I just want to look to, do we need to start decision making? Perhaps we need to change the approach that we're using to come to decision. How do we develop leadership? How do we embrace and allow the talent who feels joyful from leaving the organization? So this is some of the dimensions. It might take a little bit of giving from some of the older folks so that they can retain and keep the younger folk. But I think it's a conversation on what we have. And the honesty is that conversation is difficult. And in practice as well as in my profession, we're seeing that we need a lot of hand holding that's where, you know, different coaching comes into play so we're holding people's hand and guiding them through that door. Then look, keep working with me. It's okay. It's going to be okay. Let's have ABC from this region. Let's have him from, how from that state. Let's have the data is perhaps going to be more level in terms of background. Let him also come to the table. Let's have the broader conversation. So I think it is a gradual process for the staff to the mindset that more people coming, diverse people coming, different people coming is actually value add and not something you're taking away from them. Is, I know there was a, there was a hashtag, you know, destroy the box, you know, and destroying the box. So I think originally my concept was that the box was, was sort of structured by incumbents, you know, and incumbent known ways of an industry or a sector doing things, the way that they were done. But maybe this box is simply communication and relationship and that it's, if that's what opens up, then the structure and all is permeable or is destroyed in the, just opening up the communication lines with the cross culture or, you know, next level of leaders or whatever it may be. Is that, Absolutely. So the box is actually a functional concept. Right? Yes. The box is actually where we're all comfortable, right? Either as entrepreneurs or creators, we create, we work through kind of the unconstitutional stage of abstract ideas and when we get to a point where it's kind of a sweet spot, we found our niche, we know what we do well, what people value, what we pay us and whatnot. And then eventually over time, we get very comfortable. And then you freeze, you get frozen into that box. And it's a great idea, a great opportunity with many ways of doing things really all outside the box. So intentionally, I'm trying to bring that up, intentionally I was challenging people to say, if you want to get to the next phase, you're going to get, get your hammer, get something and start to, and start to break that comfort zone and you do that. And that's your point. It comes to conversation. It comes to identifying the fact that you're in a comfortable place, right? You're in a safe place. You know what's expected of you. You know how to receive the type of thing. But when you get to that point, you limit potential possibilities. So you've got to disrupt that through conversation, through reshuffle, perhaps just the organizational structure is to limit people, perhaps sort of more focused on sharing to take on a little bit of customer service or back-end support. It's meeting people from accounting to say, look, go be front-facing, to be crying, to take it into a conversation around, I'll introduce you perhaps a different speaker from a different cultural dimension to talk about technology, for example. And so how do you use technology in your space or your country or your culture or your context? And really fostering the conversation. The more you do that, the more you're able to flex and kind of reshape the box and you keep moving it. You keep moving it. I want to say about the box. If you be heard, promote and encourage people who are within the box, forget the box. People are not going to try to walk outside the box because the reward structure favors those who are within, so people who go within. So you've got to support that. If you just talk, there's also the action as well. Awesome. Dr. Filay, thank you so much. And so for my industry out there, destroy the box. The future is global and it's now. Hybrid Leadership Institute. Do some reading, check it out. We need change in our industry because many of the things we've been doing haven't worked. It's very important that we destroy that box for sure. Dr. Filay, thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you guys next week on Security Matters. Aloha.