 More than 250 free-to-use cash machines are disappearing every month. Operators are apparently shutting the unprofitable ones, that's according to the network coordinator link. 53,000 free machines here in Britain, number shrinking at a record rate, because of course we're using less cash. Well, David Clark is head of policy for the campaign group Positive Money. Morning to you, David. The point is I suppose that few of us are using cash. That's not the only thing that's behind these changes. So what's really happening is that the big banks have lobbied for a reduction in the amount that they contribute to the cash network. And that's really the reason why we're seeing closures at a record rate. And you've got to think like we're 10 years after the financial crisis when the public spent billions bailing the banks out, and we continue to give them billions of public subsidies each year. Here they are abdicating responsibility for providing even the most basic services for people. So we've really got to put the public interest back in the hard banking system. But it's also as well, David, it would affect people in urban areas, but primarily it affects people in rural areas. It's really worrying that among these closures there are dozens each month happening in isolated areas. So that's communities that are potentially losing any access to cash that they have at all. So we know that 2 million people rely on cash at the moment for their day-to-day shopping. It's really going to be a problem for those people if they are not able to have any access to cash near to where they live. However, it is not just a rural problem. Many of these isolated areas where there's only one ATM left that is at risk of closing there on the outskirts of cities, satellite housing estates, and indeed in many small towns will are at risk of losing their access to cash altogether. So what's the solution then? Forced the banks to pay? Yeah, so we need the regulator. That's the payment systems regulator to take a much stronger stance. Their position so far has really been to wait and see what the effect is of these changes. We've waited, now we see that cash machines are closing at a record rate. So we're calling on the payment systems regulator to step in to put an end to the reduction in the fees that banks pay towards the cash machine network so that we can see a stop to these closures that are affecting so many people's lives. David, and I can understand why people get very upset by this, because I think primarily this would affect people in isolated areas and the elderly as well. I mean the counterargument to that is surely isn't it inevitable as we move more and more to contactless and digital transactions. Eventually cash machines are simply going to be a thing of the past. All the evidence is that given a free choice, millions of us will continue to want to use cash for decades to come. So we need to think about how we can protect people's free choice well into the future. It's really bad if cash continues to disappear and the evidence is that will probably not be by people's choice but because that decision is forced on them then we become more and more reliant on just a handful of big banks to store our money and make payments. But isn't that what we do anyway? We already do that. We already rely on a few banks and there are places, I can't remember which Scandinavian country it is but there is one that's gone completely cash-free and of course the good thing about that is that it stops for example small shops being robbed for example for money. There's no money in tills because there are no tills. So it just makes it so much easier. You've got fewer bits of paper so we're saving the planet perhaps. Sweden is the country, the world that arguably has gone furthest towards becoming a cashless society. There are real concerns in Sweden that they've just gone too far, too fast, that without cash there's no real contingency if a big bank fails, if a bank experiences a technological failure or a financial failure that millions of people lose access to their money, that they don't have any other means of payments and that's really what we risk seeing in this country as well if cash disappears too quickly. Thank you very much. That's David Clark, head of policy for the campaign group Positive Money.