 have a new logo. So for those of you who know us as LiveWell Colorado, we've recently gone through a very exciting rebranding, refreshing, and look out in the next few weeks for our new website and some updated information about that. We will be packing today. This is one of our first few kind of launch webinars, so today's is about nutrition incentives, which in Colorado right now is primarily double at FoodBugs Colorado. So I know many of you on the line are market managers, people who are using the program, people who know about the program, so nourish Colorado will still continue to run double at FoodBugs and to offer that to the state of Colorado. In the future, we will have a couple more webinars coming your way, so that will be healthy food incentives about our local procurement program and about our healthy food policy work. So we are excited to launch today. Before we dive into the panelists, a few things. So throughout the webinar, please ask your questions in the chat, and we will have 15 minutes for questions at the end. If you can, please direct the question if it's for one particular panelist or if it's for all panelists. So just let us know so that at the end we can make sure to feel those to the right individual. And then before we start, I just want to say a big thank you. So we recently put in an application for the Gus Schumacher Nutrition Incentive Program grant in order to sustain and grow our Double at FoodBugs program. So these are partners who put in either in kind or financial support to the program, and then there's many other supporting partners, markets, our community food advocates. So we just really appreciate all of you in the work you do to keep this program going. And then we also want to thank the Double at FoodBugs advisory team. So in talking about the future of nutrition incentive, this is by no way happening in a vacuum over at the Nourish Colorado team. We have an active Double at FoodBugs advisory team with these members who help inform the direction of the program and where it's going. The application for the advisory team will be live in January, February next year. So if you really love this work and you're like, wow, I want to be part of this team talking about its growth and direction and future, please apply. And today's speakers, so we're going to have, I'll have the speakers introduce themselves in a moment. But we are going to have Andy Fisher, Executive Director at Ecological Farming Association. Andrea Loud, Community Food Activist and Advocate. Nufon Tazazu, owner of FairQ's Market. Don Filmini, sorry, Filmini Professor and Co-Director of Ready, Carter State University. And Eli Zegis, Food and Agricultural Policy Director of San Francisco Bay Area Planning and Urban Research Association, otherwise known as FUR. So I'm going to pass it first to Andrea to do an introduction. Go ahead, Andrea. Again, Andrea Loud, I live in Bella Park Neighborhood, which is West Denver. We are part of West Denver, I guess you say the planning committee where they're looking to upgrade and do all that good stuff. I am someone who is passionate about healthy food because of my own health and I live in a community where I not only just call it a food desert, but a food part time. So I'm grateful that I was able to attend the summit. Last year, at the time, it was Live Well, Colorado, but it's because of them that I've met so many wonderful agencies and people to help me with my goal and my dream for my community. Thanks so much, Andrea. I'm going to pass it to Zufan next. Okay. Hi. My name is Zufan Tzazou. I am the director of Kismar Kate. I'm located on 1131 Syracuse Street, Denver, Colorado, 8-0-0, 8-0-2-0. I'm sorry for the noise. I'm going to close the door. I am at work. So I've been joining the Dabla program like four years ago. Me and my brother, we are happy to join with the Dabla program. So thank you so much. All right. Next, Zufan, we can hear you. Okay. Next up, Don. Hi. I'm Don Thelmene. I'm a professor of agricultural resource economics at Colorado State University. And how I got involved with the Dabla food boxes, I've always kind of focused on farms that choose to use strategies that are kind of local and direct sales. And so a lot of times, early in the years that I worked with them, they always felt some tension in the fact that we wanted them to charge the prices they needed to be viable as a farm, but they always felt some amount of concern that it wasn't always affordable for the full set of people in the community. So when the BUSNIP programs and other incentive programs popped up, it was just exciting news for us because we knew that was one of the ways to address that perception or barrier is to make those goods more affordable. And I was actually lucky enough to get a meat bus you make her once and he was inspiring. So it's been fun to actually gradually bring some of my economic toolbox to looking at some of the broader benefits for double up, not just for farmers, but for the broader system. Great. And Eli. Good morning, everyone. My time. Good afternoon, yours. I'm calling in from California, the Bay Area, where I work for an organization called Spur, a nonprofit very similar to Nourish, Colorado, in the sense that we run a double up food box program at seven grocery stores pretty close to San Jose, for those of you familiar with our geography. And in addition to running a double up program at grocery, we also very much work on policy. So our goal is to see double up and programs like it. We have four or five of them in California be available at farmers markets and grocery stores statewide. So we are on a policy path to try and make that happen in addition to running the program on the ground and excited to be with you and learn more about what's going on in Colorado. Wonderful. And Andy, you are up next. We are just doing a quick introduction on your name, where you're from, where you're based, and then why you're excited to be on this panel today. Sure. Thanks for having me and my apologies for being late. I got my time zones all messed up. I'm out on the West Coast in Portland, Oregon. I am the executive director of ecological farming association in Santa Cruz. I'm currently in Portland, like I said. I have, I haven't run a SNAP incentives program. I was on the board of farmers market fund, which is the organization in Oregon that runs the statewide programs that help them read a couple successful grant proposals for the Finney slash GUSNIP program and also have reviewed GUSNIP proposals for three years. So I'm thankful to be here and I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks, Andy. And I've seen a couple notes in the chat that people are just joining. So just a reminder, please feel free to ask questions, questions throughout. And we will go over those at the end. Go ahead and just specify who you're asking your question to. And if it's for all panelists, please still let us know all panelists. All right, our first question today is for Zufan. Zufan, we would like to know what is working well for double it for double it for us at your store. And then what's been challenging as a store owner? Okay, when thank you for the question. Like, when if the first time we joined the develop, like when Lindsey explained to us, what's going on? And we don't really, is that going to work? Is that really we can trust? Then after some time is we just join and we have big change, like with the CLS and like people, like when we tell them when we explain to them, they are very interested and it is like when we explain to the people, they say, is that really you're going to give us without cutting from my snap card, let's say, yes, just you guys gonna get a help with, you can eat fresh fruit and vegetables. Instead of you buy with foodstuff, we can match the money for you. Then you can eat fresh fruit and vegetables. It's hard to explain to them the first time, but it is it is it is worse after they try to use the double up program. So first of all, my sales go up and we have a lot of new customers and the customer, they are happy and not only to make like the profit stuff to gain sale in my store, you just see the smile from the people when they get it for almost free, they don't pay from the first time. So for them, it's free. So especially at the end of the month, when they finish their money with first time, when they come with the card to buy some fruit and vegetables to have for the day meal, that is make me happy more than what I make in my store. So that is very nice. And what is challenging is the challenges to explain to the customer. The first time was not really bad, but we're using the handbook, write down all the numbers, how much we sell, how much we receive. That was it was a challenge. And when it comes to the iPad, a little bit challenge with the iPad, like when you swipe the card is not working and stuff, sometimes we keep calling Amy, she's very helpful, we give her her time every time. So this is a challenge and what I like. So when you see general food develop, not only to the store, even to the people, it's very helpful. I am glad to join the food back program. And my customers happy, everybody's happy and my sales go up. I am in a good hand. Thank you very much. Thank you. Our next question is for Andrea. 2020 has been a wild year and as a community food advocate, I know you guys have had to reinvent a lot of the ways during outreach and engagement. And we just want to make here, what are the larger challenges that SNAP recipients are facing in 2020? And how do you think the double up food box program is helping overcome those? And how is it falling short? Okay, I'm going to try to answer all questions, let me forget a few. But I hope the double up food program, especially since COVID into newcomers who are on SNAP has been pretty rewarding. One thing, I go into areas where I just don't stand in a grocery store. I may go to a place where I know where families are living such as some of the hotels. And I get to share about the double up food box program. And during the winter month has become a challenge in a way where trying to find a place close in this type of the areas that I go to. And even in my own personal neighborhood, you know, we do have a co-op. But one of the things I get feedback on is not enough quantity and choices. And so, I also, there is just, we have these little places, but they may not have a variety of what's needed for families to be able to stretch or make, buy food and make a meal out of it for at least a family of four. So, they have to use a lot of wisdom. And some of them just don't have the knowledge of how to make that little bit stretch. And so, I found that that to be one of the greatest challenges. And like I said, some families are living, excuse me, some families are living in motels and things like that that I have been dealing with since back in October. And that's their struggle. It's number one, finding a good place where they can make their money go for when you have two adults and five kids, a corner market just doesn't kind of cut the mustard for groceries for them. And so, that becomes, they won't go there, but at the tail end of it, they may use the food hubs in that way just to grab a little bit to get us through to the next month for our car to refill. And so, I'm facing that. And like I said, I face the part of shame with giving food stamps. People are ashamed. And some of these people have been working all their lives and they never received food stamps. So, they find it to be somewhat humiliating. And I'm dealing with the part where it's never humiliating whether you walk into a corner store or a supermarket. And I really would hope and love for the big supermarket to get on board. So, it will help such a large family that I've been dealing with with the food stamp. So, they love the idea. I remember doing the summer going into Denver Housing Authority and just meeting families and passing out the double up food card. They, one of the questions I found most often is where have y'all been all my life? And I tell them, hey, I just discovered it too. But it's here and, you know, I'm gonna do my best to make sure everybody know about it. So, it, everybody loves the idea, but for neighborhood such as mine, and then I can go north of federal into a place where I know a lot of families are living because they were moving their jobs and COVID and evictions and all of that. Excuse me. They have, it's tough for them to get to the little corner store. There's nothing really close to them. So, I would like maybe for the current food we have, and I do know of a young man who's trying to start a food hub in the Southwest Denver area, maybe we can partnership better with producers and farmers to have a much more food there and choice. Because when you go from shame and then you don't have choice, it only adds to that feeling of humiliation. But if you, I've watched charts give people power, and I did that through my own neighborhood even with food rescues. So, those are some of the challenges, but I would never say that people don't like it or people don't need it and that it's a bad thing. It's a great thing. I think it's just education, knowledge, and more resources that are needed. Wonderful. Thank you, Andrea. My next question is for Don. So, as many of you know, part of the Double Up program is that we're trying to really circulate dollars in our local agricultural economy. And so, Don, what challenges are growers facing in 2020, and do you see Double Up as playing a role in mitigating against those challenges or promoting growers, and if so, for whom? So, three-part question there, and I'm happy to repeat for any of you, pieces of the questions as needed. Yeah. So, it's been an interesting year for farmers, and we weren't even sure when it first was announced that we were going to have some of the shutdowns that we were, what it would do. Obviously, the first and most noticeable impact on some of them was for those who had gotten to the scale that they were starting to do sales to schools or restaurants and chefs, you know, those markets just closed down immediately, and that was probably the biggest shock. What so many of them have noted to us is that it was then met with kind of a wave of new interest in buying local and direct. So, in some of their other markets, the farmers' markets as they gradually did get to open, their CSAs, if they had memberships open, their farm stands, they actually saw lots of renewed interest. And so, I think, in some ways, some of them saw actually a stronger year in terms of sales. Now, obviously, the real concerns there are, some of that came with increased cost of production. They were trying to protect their workers, which means they had to take both have some measures and buy some equipment they didn't have before. And because I think so many of them did really feel like ethically, they wanted to make sure their workers who were deemed essential were taken care of. They went above and beyond making sure they were safe, which really kind of raised their cost structure. You know, and the other thing, of course, is that farmers' markets were really struggling with how to open. And there was not particularly great guidance. I think I'm really amazed at how many markets did find a way to find a way to be open. So, of course, then some of those markets were equipped with ways to support people who did bring electronic benefits. And never was that a bigger win than probably for this year. So, I think they're appreciative of that. Because, again, as much as the farms are worried about being viable and making enough this year, they knew that food security and people's budgets were really taking on some significant hardship this year. So, they wanted to make sure they were part of the solution. I think what is still not clearly known is two things is where still the food assistance community is going to continue to morph a little bit. You know, we saw the Farm to Family Food Box programs. Lots of innovative partnerships happened where our farmers were supporting food pantries, feeding Colorado and so forth. And I'm not sure where that's going to settle as this all normalizes a bit, but that'll matter. And then also, retailers had a really good year. There was record sales for retailers. And that could be good. But again, particularly with Amazon being so strongly in the mix there, now that online delivery is going to become a thing, there's a lot of concern about whether there's ever really going to be full access for local products. And so that's why having any nudge like this where you can approach a retailer and give them an incentive to carry local and procure locally like you guys do with some of what you do is going to be a win because that's really an unknown. And so it is easier sometimes just to do the one big distributor that brings all your stuff. But we know from Coloradans that that's not what they want. And if nothing else, all the huge sales increases at some of the direct markets should be a signal of that. But it's still so relatively small a bucket of money that I think keeping the retailer's attention on this is going to be hard. And that's what producers need to know because we don't know whether to tell them to continue even pursuing that market if the direct markets are doing so well. But it's very hard to scale up and get to the size it's viable without those bigger markets. Thank you, Don. My next question is for Andy. So as someone who has been working to improve healthy food access and strengthen resilient food systems for some time at the national level, how do you think all of this work on incentives is playing out? What barriers are incentives effectively addressing or good at solving and what remaining issues do they not address? Sure. I appreciate the question. So I think we need to take a look of our context. We've been operating in a bifurcated food system in which if you have the money, you're at access to organic food, you have access to local food, and if you don't, it's much more problematic. So SNAP incentives have been really good at bringing low income consumers to farmers' markets. They've been about introducing them to that experience and making it more affordable. They've been really good at providing income to farmers. You hear story after story of farmers who are able to expand their operations because of SNAP incentives or other coupon programs. They've been key in many farmers' markets across the country in maintaining that farmers' market being able to grow and maintain its existence as sometimes we see markets in the past few years, their sales levels have gone down. So they've been good, and they've also been very good at, the research I've seen has shown that they've been good at improving food security and improving the quantity of produce that people are purchasing. And they've also been good at experiential nutrition education. So they've been a great tool for bridging that kind of core issue of lower income consumers needing low prices and small farmers needing decent income, decent prices as well for themselves to be able to make a profit. So that's been one of the fundamental challenges in serving lower income consumers is that the cost price issue. I think where the challenges lie on a couple things and I know the movement doesn't have a single coherent vision on this, but there's issues around whether SNAP incentives are going to continue in farmers' markets or whether they're going to migrate to supermarkets and whether a program that was started in the farmers' market world is going to be taken over in the supermarket world and where farmers' markets are not able to compete with the supermarkets. And I think also another core issue that I've been worried about since the get-go, since these programs have been started, is the sustainability. And I think we're seeing a little bit of donor fatigue, especially in Oregon. And I can even, at the national level as a reviewer, I saw a little bit of that, in that where does this program go? How big can we make it? How will donors continue to invest money into these programs and have them grow and grow and grow? At what point does that stop? I guess the question I'm trying to ask is how does SNAP incentives translate into public policy and be integrated into the SNAP program or funded on an ongoing level in a way that's more sustainable than depending upon Thank you, Andy. I saw our whole group here with a lot of head nods. I think that's a really important question. I appreciate you bringing that up. Our next question is for Eli. So Eli, out in California, you run a very different Double Up Food Bex program than ours here in Colorado. So tell us about what your program looks like and what about your approach you wish every one day and what have you tried that has not turned out to be so successful? And I will moderate too. I know you're not telling us all to do it the same, but broadly, what would you recommend to us and other states and why, yeah, we'll leave it there. Yeah. Well, thank you, Amy. And I think in many ways what we do is very similar to what Double Up Colorado is doing. Same idea that we are supporting producers and consumers at the same time, matching penny for penny up to a certain amount per day when people buy eligible products. So big picture, our goals, as Andy talked about, are increased food security, improve health, and support local agriculture. In our case, state grown agriculture. And I'm not sure we've got it figured out. Some of the things that we do differently with our stores than I think you guys do in Colorado, though it's similar to your larger stores as all our grocery stores, the Double Up Bucks themselves pop out on a piece of paper in a receipt. So we don't have a loyalty card program. We spend a lot of time up front with the grocers to update their cash registers, their point of sale systems, so that it's as seamless as possible for the customer and the cashier in the store itself. But it's not seamless. There's a lot of paper going back and forth. And so ultimately, we want to move away from the paper and we envision a day and we're working towards this in California right now where someone, a Snap customer, earns their Double Up Food Bucks by swiping their EBT card and purchasing local produce. And then the money just goes back on their card. And this is what was done in Massachusetts in a big pilot. It's what's happening at Massachusetts farmers markets right now. No need to have a second loyalty card, like a Double Up card, or no need to carry a paper coupon or a wooden token. That would make it easier for the customer, it would make it easier for the store, and it would definitely make it easier for the people administering the program, just like the move from paper food stamps to an EBT card, it's moving from paper or tokens to electronic. So a lot of advantages there. We worked with some other groups in California to follow in Massachusetts footsteps. So right now, California is implementing an EBT integration pilot, which is moving slow, but we hope to know more about soon and I'll talk a bit more about that. And then I'd say our other goal policy wise is exactly what Andy hit on. I think I share Andy's fear that these programs are not sustainable long term if they're always going to be grant funded, or there will be limits to who can successfully do it. So we are focused at SPUR is Bay Area in California, and we see a future and we want a future in which we're not running this program anymore, but the state is. So that Double Up and programs like it, Healthy Food Incentives, become a permanent supplement to SNAP in California funded by the state. I would love for the federal government to fund it. So that's another route. So that SNAP, all told, has a supplement, the Supplemental Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program where they build in bonus dollars nationally. We don't do a lot of policy advocacy in D.C. There are other groups, I think better position to push for that, but that I'd love to see that. And I think that would be more doable for other states. California, we grow a lot of produce. So the politics here are different and make it more feasible. But absolutely, if if we know the program works, and it helps people as as Andrea and Zufan have been talking about, then we should make it a supplement to SNAP. And we should find the money to do it, especially at this time. It's a good investment. There's research that shows it is. So let's not wait anymore and let's make this a permanent supplement to SNAP. Thank you, Eli. I appreciate the strong look to the future and also see many head nods on this call. For our next panel question, I'm going to ask the same question to all of you. And then when you're done seeking, just go ahead and pass it to another panelist. So our next question, you can leave us with thoughts on any pieces of these. So we would love to hear what you see on the horizon for nutrition incentives. What is coming that might look different than today? And or what's your ideal vision or state of the program? And what would you like double up subjects to look like in your world in 2025? And we will start with Eli. So I maybe like scooped myself here by talking so much about the future. I just get so excited about it. But what I imagine is that we, right now, there are about five different programs in California. They all have slightly different program designs. And so I saw someone sent us a question about this in San Diego. So there's another program in San Diego called Mosfresco Morefresh. It's an excellent program and it runs with a store called Northgate Gonzalez. We do it with three different small grocery family owned chains in the San Jose area. The future looks like you enroll and snap. You are getting your benefits. You've got your EBT card. You go to nearly any grocery store. You don't even have to look at a map to know if they offer double up or program like it. Let's just call it bonus box. And you walk into that store, depending on what state you're in, either they're doing what we do, which is we label on the shelves what's California grown. So because we grow so much all year long in California, you're encouraging the customer to understand what's seasonal. They see what's California grown. They know they're going to get bonus dollars on that. They go to the cash register. Maybe they were paying attention to bonus bucks. Maybe they weren't either which way they get them. And they get a receipt at the end of their transaction. They've paid with the EBT card and the receipt says you earned $12 and 32 cents of bonus bucks today. Now you can spend that money on anything, snap eligible, any food when you come back to the store. We've rebated on your card. You don't have to do anything. The store, meanwhile, also doesn't have to submit any paperwork to spur or to the state, just like they get paid back for snap by the state or the federal government. The state or the federal government is paying them back for the extra bonus dollars just like they get paid back for snap. And what we see as a result is more purchasing power. So to Andrea's point, there are a number of things to address education, knowledge, and more resources. I think programs like DoubleUp primarily address the resources. They don't get to the education and knowledge that needs to be happening in other ways. And I know Nourish Colorado does that and other groups do that. This really only gets at affordability. So what we see is people have more money in their pockets for food. It's primarily because they're buying fruits and vegetables. So hopefully people's nutrition is improving. And to Andy's point, there are studies that indicate that people's dietary behavior improves. And hopefully that has good health outcomes, which we've seen also studied. So people have more money in their pockets. They're buying more fruits and vegetables. They're eating more fruits and vegetables. Hunger goes down. Health goes up. And there's more revenue going to farmers. And we fund this all. Could be a variety of different ways. So right now it's funded by a farm bill, which is general tax dollars from the US government. We could fund it with a national or a state soda tax or a candy tax. We could close some corporate loopholes at the state or federal level and fund it that way. But we've decided as a society that we don't think people should go hungry. And we have a very administratively efficient way to deliver money in people's pockets. And I should say we could also just increase SNAP, period. Just increase the amount of money on SNAP and add this on top. I don't think those are exclusives of each other. We know SNAP is not adequate for what people need. So increase benefits level at the base minimum. And then add this as another layer on top of it to encourage healthier eating. Both of those would be fantastic. And that's the future I'm hoping for. And I would definitely like to see that at least in California, if not beyond by 2025. Great. Well, next we're going to pass it to Dawn. Same question. Wow, Eli's hard to follow. And that's a great vision. I think the one thing at least that got already put into the question box you did in addresses, we know online food purchasing just went over a threshold of all of a sudden people got used to it. It was slow in coming. This year just changed everything. And of course, there were some accommodations made to make it possible to use electronic benefits, but only with the biggest players. So I think that's one new question mark that's been thrown into the mix is how how much us households are going to sustain buying online. And if we can also find the flexibility to make that online electronic benefits activity work for all types of markets, big and small and direct and traditional. So I think that's going to be one other question mark in there. But you know, I agree with Eli that almost every piece of research we see shows just getting folks more dollars through these programs is the most efficient way to let them get access to the food they need. The one thing he didn't mention and we have lots of conversations about this is the economic research service out of USDA has been able to do a study on on normal snap. And there we do see a lot of substitution effect we call it where the dollars that are given a lot of it does get spent on food and and improving the diet of household, but it also frees up some money for them to spend on other goods. This is kind of like a little hypothesis I have in my head, but two things in direct markets, we don't have an evaluation of that because the US has not done that. But because there's be because of the nature of those markets, and they're being less alternative things to buy, perhaps that substitution effect doesn't happen quite as strongly in all markets. So, at least when I worked our winter markets and volunteered there, we see people using most of those additional dollars and in fact spending more than they intended to spend that day. But you could imagine playing out differently in like a Walmart because how many things that store offers and all the alternatives you could have, for instance. So what would be really interesting to see is is is if that substitution effect is the same for a double up program as it is for normal snap. And if we do see a bigger bump in dietary quality because these incentives are targeted to one part of the food budget that they have, that's something really curious for us. Then our our belief would be the more ubiquitous you make it that it's available everywhere in all the markets and doesn't have these the they're not barriers but this extra set of steps to actually implement to do it get it. It's got to generally help increase the effectiveness or impact of the program that it's actually getting to the people who need it to do what they want to do with it and trickling into the different parts of the food economy that can benefit from it as well. Wonderful. Next, I'm going to pass that over to Zufan. So Zufan in 2025, what would you like double up to look like? Thank you. For 2025, like I hope the developers continue like this more grow like in my store like not for the sale. I wish I can extend more like for the groceries. I wish I'm going to have like more people they can serve us with more producers because we got every store to collect the producers and like for people like my sellers it's going to be improved of course and for the people instead of they spend with their food stamp money that's extra money they can have extra food on the table like people they don't they don't afford to buy fruit and the vegetable is here like healthy foods they can eat they can I don't know how to explain I'm so sorry and so you're fine. Sorry I have broken English English is my second language so it's hard to explain sometimes I'm so sorry but working hard to change my like in the state of I am and rent and now I can have my own building I can extend more fruit and vegetables or more groceries for them to serve my neighborhood my people to grow to grow up fast so thank you so much. Thank you Zufan for sharing your vision. Next we're going to go to Andrea. Yes first of all I love everything everybody said Eli you had my head bouncing and um and so did you Andy but for me what I want 2025 to look like is a I'm going to call it independent I want to see a double up food but go towards people learning how to grow their own leafy green vegetables how they can start it on a patio how we can join forces with a community I have the opportunity to manage a community garden that is privately owned I believe that agencies or organizations such as Nair's Colorado double up food but would be great if it if we had the opportunity to purchase the plant edible plants or seeds in used garden for neighborhoods such as used gardens for neighborhoods such as mine and that would put fresh produce in there that would take away some of the issues with trying to get food delivered and then I I'm an online shopper however I have residents who are not tech savvy they do good to just have a cell phone and so when you live in an area you're able to see from the inside and I would like to for my 20 25 visions of that double up food but is to say hey we're not only going to keep these other things we have going with the grocery store at the corner store that but we're going to help people learn how to grow their own tomato their own vegetables and then we're not going to just tell them to grow it but some people may like squash but don't have no idea what to do with it show them the different things that they could do with different produce how they that for squash can feed a family of seven and so that's my vision of double up food but like working with park and recreation to maybe donate fees for park and recreation to start that type of community garden or the Denver urban garden but where it's right in the heart of neighborhoods such as mine and make it be I guess I dream big but I can see mobile more mobile form of market where it actually come into the neighborhood like like a mine which would be so helpful you know maybe once everything gets settled down we can go up to the that motel where I know homeless people are living and we can take this fresh produce and give them opportunity to have their choice give them opportunity to eat well and I believe I'm going to go back to that choice or growing your own food it empowers people it's so much power to say I did it it's so much power to say I chose this I didn't have to take that and I just feel that the opportunities are there I am I like I appreciate quick fixes but I like security and I believe my whole heart and I will always believe one way to have that food security is through the gardening part of life and if we can not only give a fish but teach people how to fish and you double up food back to purchase those seeds in those little starter plants I believe that we will be doing community society and America a great help I that's my heart that's where it long thank you thank you Andrea and then Andy I will pass it to you sure so the nice thing about going last is you get to hear everybody but the bad thing about going last is everybody takes all your ideas so I appreciate you know Eli and Andrea what you guys are saying I just want to bring I think I want to bring up three points and the first one is I'm talking about the GUST program which is a 40 million 40 million dollar 50 million dollar program that funds a lot of these snap incentives around the country and it's a competitive grants program right now I did some analysis on where the money went from 2015 to 2019 I found that about $15 and 31 cents went into every every person received snap got $15 and 31 cents in in federal money California got $6 and 33 cents per person and for every snap recipient in Texas only got 16 cents so there's there's this huge inequity between states that don't have the capacity of good grant writers of capable organizations like Eli's or nourish colorados or other other groups that are able to capture that money and able to raise the dollar for dollar match especially in the south there's just a lot of problems with non-profit capacity and able to to to manage those to be able to compete effectively so I think what we need is is different if we're going to keep that program as a competitive grants program and there needs to be structures in place that build that equity that build that capacity into it ideally I don't know if it's in the next farm bill the farm bill after that you know I'd really like to see um that program become better integrated into the snap program so that everybody in the country has access to it not just a small small selection and that they have access to it on a year-round basis it becomes a core part of the snap program and where that money comes from we increase the snap program it's it's woefully underfunded as it is current as it is right now um the third piece is probably a little bit more pie in the sky but I think we need to think a little bit bigger and we need to think about how can we use the snap program how can we use this the double-up program as a model for changing the snap program for for reforming it into an effort that drives broader change in the local and regional food system that that supports those efforts and puts priorities to this and puts priority to those efforts as well as makes produce more affordable for folks who can't afford it so right now we have a situation in which highly processed foods tend to be more affordable calorie calorie per calorie than say produce and broccoli or apples um we that's that's backwards and that's driving health inequities health disparities in our country so we need to think about how do we use how do we use that 80 billion dollars of the snap program to drive change um towards more helpful behaviors and so that the easy choice so the right choice is the easy choice thank you andi now i'm going to start pulling up questions from the audience we likely won't have time to get to all of them but i'll make sure that the panelists see particular questions um and all of your wonderful comments as well even after this webinar so our first question is directed primarily at andi but it's really for everyone um do you think that amazon having double up food bucks would be a positive or negative team they've recently started setting snaps so would it be helpful for local farmers or harmful i don't know if i'd be helpful for local farmers or harmful i don't um i'm not a big fan of more subsidies for a company like amazon they don't need more federal dollars to subsidize sales there they have plenty through um through lots of different avenues whether it's local or federal so i i would i don't see that as a positive can i offer something Amy yeah i think it's i think it depends on um you know how you define what what is the benefit so if it's the local farmers i agree with andi i don't think there are too many local farmers who are selling through amazon supply chain they buy big and and they're not focused on sourcing local so to the extent that someone gets into that supply chain great but i think the chances are little but if if we look at it as is their benefit to low income snap customers yeah i mean i think it's right now there are not many delivery options if you wanted to get um food delivered to your home and pay with snap hopefully usda will bring more stores on but wal-mart and amazon are the big players right now and that's helpful so i think if we think about it as limited resources like who are the retailers we want to partner with first i'm not sure amazon makes the most sense i don't think it's necessarily the right partner to begin with but in uh in the sense of amazon and its product myths is now available to low-income customers to have for delivery i don't think that's a bad thing overall i don't think it's a huge win for local farmers but i think that's a nice option for people to have if they want it so i think it's it's it's not a straightforward question and there are many things that double up provides so it is both for producer and consumer and some options benefit the consumer quite a bit but not much the producer and then other ways you can structure the program or deliver it really benefit the producer with limited help to the consumer so i think it gets complicated whenever there's a new proposal yeah and i was curious if don had any thoughts on this question well i kind of answered it in my original answer that i think it's going to be political there's going to be a lot of um discussion about it but you know it gets down to really what this administration's philosophy is going to be about um um expediency and efficiency which is always going to be the winning out to the bigger players who could implement the stuff easy versus whether they're going to do the careful thoughtful things that are you know as economists can make pretty good arguments about where there's going to be the the better impact to communities and that that's going to tend to go with it um trickling down to being available for the widest swath of of markets but um you know sometimes they ask us and listen and sometimes they don't but you know there's definitely some role we can play in helping to frame that story thank you and our next question i'm going to take this one but please panelists chime in so someone asked what has been the impact of produced food box program on double up colorado um i'd be curious if it's maybe different in someplace like california but what i will say is we have not seen diminished participation since produced food box and if anything 2020 the demand for the fat program but along with that the demand for double up food box um has increased and that's been across the retail chain so that goes from you know our csa direct farm level up until the supermarket but i know many farmers markets on increase demand for both snap and double up this year and then our next question and we're just going to do one more because i want to make sure people have the information to follow up with us um but the first question is is um can pandemic ebt be used for double up food box so i can answer that yes it can um but then um particularly for andrea do you have ideas to promote the use of pandemic ebt um for double up food box sorry could you repeat that question um so pandemic ebt the dollars that families are getting from not having school lunch um somebody wondered what ideas do you have to promote the use of double up food box that this program's available to the families who are receiving pebt benefit my uh first go to it's going to be fine and i've been thinking about this every since i met the family over in the um white rock motel i have i my head was like how do i get cooking matters to come and to show these people how to to use it and then my challenges of greatness with that was communication i have some people who only speak Spanish and i even though the card Spanish speaking on there but then i was met with a via me's family so you know i just kind of got done right there but i just i'm going to go right back to communication like i can't tell you how deep i went into the Denver housing authority and no one never heard of this no one never thought about fresh produce but everybody's saying they want to eat healthy and i'm my thing is just showing family how you can get other protein you don't have to buy meat all the time how our plants that we grow has protein so i'm i'm gonna say if how do you guys as other than the word empowerment with somebody have that knowledge of how to do better they will do better and that's that's what i'm going to say so if you can get that out there to the family and trust me i was on that uh thing with the uh in hunger colorado when the ebt the extra came out and i went on a crusade trying to help families now it's out here you use it and yes you can use it with this with the double up food program and they they're looking for it because when you don't have money coming in are you living off of unemployment of a family of seven that almost calls for a magic to make things work so i think that um if you can just get that knowledge out there push that give ideas i believe that double up food buck can take not from just getting it from our schools our kids are getting lunches from school now they're mostly they're at home right now but it can stay at home in a spread abroad all right thank you andress so we're at one o'clock so i need to wrap us up but thank you so much to all of the panelists i'm going to share a slide really quick with ways people can continually be involved in this conversation and in this work um with us so like i said we will have our advisory team um application out early next year if you're already on the advisory team you're welcome to stick around but we do have some open spots um i also want to point out a lot of questions showed up about just the logistical how double up food bucks works in colorado you're welcome to email me or go to double up colorado.org we've got how it works videos we've got an FAQ if you want to find resources to spread the word i would email cron at nourish colorado we will give you flyers posters whatever you need to get this word out in your community and then if you want to join our mailing list for um future webinars we do like i said have two more coming up as we launch nourish colorado so just go ahead um and sign up for a take action email so i will stay on for a little bit of big clap for our panelists i think you all did such a wonderful job and i'm just always inspired by the five of you so thank you everyone thank you amy thank you