 Chair you are be ready to begin. Okay, great. Thank you. Good evening everybody. Welcome to the September 16 2020 planning and zoning Commission meeting first item on our agenda is a roll call, Jane. Chairman churnick here, Commissioner flag here, Commissioner Goldberg here, Commissioner height. Commissioner Coller here, Commissioner honor here, Commissioner Poland here. Thank you. You have a form. Great. Thank you. Next is communications before we get into that. I want to just read this anyone wishing to speak during public invited to be heard, which is items four and seven or during any public hearing items, which is agenda item six tonight. We'll need to watch the live stream of the meeting for instructions about how to call in to provide public comment at the appropriate times. We've got that up on our screen right now. Instructions will be given during the meeting and displayed on the screen and it is time to call in to provide comments. After a limited to five minutes per person in each speaker will be asked to state their name and address for the record, prior to proceeding with their comments. Please remember to mute the live stream when you are called upon to speak. In terms of communications. Let's turn to Don Bridget our planning manager. We have nothing to report at this time. Okay, thank you Don. Next on our agenda is our first public invited to be heard. We'll display our call in information please believe Heather is the master behind the screen here running all the behind the green curtain shall we say We'll have it up on the screen here soon for those viewing from home. You will call 1-888-788-0099 When prompted, you know the meeting ID 838-3828-8942 It takes us about five minutes to get everybody pulled into the meeting. So again call 1-888-788-0099 When prompted enter 838-3828-8942 And this is for any items which are not on tonight's agenda. We'll take a five minute break to while the process to work. Thanks. I'm going to stop sharing my screen and give just a second for the live stream to catch up here. Thank you, Heather. You have one caller in the waiting room and so I just admitted them to the meeting. I'm going to unmute you in just a moment. If you would please state your name and address for the record and you will have five minutes to speak. And just for clarification, this is for items that are not on the agenda tonight. So anything that's not on the agenda. So not about villas at you Creek. So one other note also for the caller if you would please make sure that your live stream is muted so that we don't get feedback in the call. Hello. I'm sorry. I missed the instructions on what we're said to unmute my phone and so I've unmuted my phone. Okay, great. So we have if you would please state your name and address for the record and then you'll have five minutes to speak. And even Williams, I live at 710 Clarendon Drive. This is for the villas at you Creek on the agenda. I just had the question for Mr. Williams. I just want to clarify that this particular call in time is for items that are not on the agenda tonight. So I heard that I didn't hear the first part of that when you said it was for the items not on the agenda. Okay, then I will then I don't know why I'd ask me on mute. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Did we have anybody else I think Mr Williams was the only one. He was the only one at this time. Yes, sir. Okay, so we will close the public invited to be heard. And next on our agenda is approval of our minutes from August 26 2020. Do we have any discussion amongst the commission about the minutes. Seeing none. Do we have a motion to approve Commissioner Goldberg. Yeah, thanks chairman. I'd like to move to approve the minutes from the August 26 meeting. Okay, Commissioner Poland. I will second that. Okay, so we have a motion to approve in a second. All those in favor of approval of the minutes say I raise your hand. I, I, I, any abstained or Commissioner Coller abstains any knows I forgot to ask for knows. Okay, so Jane, that passes. In favor zero knows and one abstention from Commissioner Coller minutes are approved. I also want to comment. Jane, I think those were the longest minutes we've, we've had. So good job. I would agree. We will open up item six on our agenda, which is bill is it you Creek right of way vacation PZR 2020 dash seven associate planner, Zach Blazik who will start the presentation. Good evening everyone can you see and hear me right and we've got the presentation up. Fantastic. Okay, hello everybody good evening commissioners my name is Zach Blazik I'm an associate planner here with the city and this is my planning and zoning commission to you so be kind. I'm here this evening to present the village you Creek vacation of right of way application the outcome of which will be a recommendation from you all of a decision to the city council. We can go to the next slide. I'd like to start by introducing Doug Gossett who is with us from Public Works Chris isn't with us but if you have any engineering questions, we have Doug with us. So right away vacation is a major application for development these often go straight to the city council for decision, but the code does provide the opportunity for staff or to refer them to planning and zoning for a recommendation. And that's what brings us here this evening. Next slide. So the bill is that you create condominium subdivision is located at 1703 Whitehall Drive at the Northwest corner of 17th Ave and Pace Street. Whitehall Drive is a platted public street within the subdivision and residents take access from pace up there in the Northwest corner. You know the next slide. Within this existing right of way on Whitehall Drive there are several parking spaces on three separate elevated concrete pads which we can see in the image here. There's also existing landscaping in the right of way and access to resident mailboxes. Next slide please. So the owner representation or owner representative of the property which is the village of Creek HOA has petitioned the city of Longmont to vacate a portion of the west side of the platted Whitehall Drive where that parking and landscaping is located. Specifically the HOA would like the city to vacate 3675 square feet of right of way where the parking landscaping is located. An additional easement will replace the existing right of way in place which the city will then still have permission to access just in case anything is necessary there for curb improvements or something like that along the edge of the right of way. The applicant is here to speak more to this request but in summary what it will do is allow the HOA to manage the existing parking landscaping there currently located within the right of way as it currently is on the west side. It will additionally place the burden of regular maintenance things like snow management, striping in the parking area, asphalt management, landscaping entirely on the homeowners association. Next slide please. The RC staff reviewed this proposal against the criteria listed here and found the vacation request in compliance with the Longmont Municipal Code and the review criteria. However we did opt to refer the application to this hearing for a recommendation after receiving some neighborhood input during the review process specific to the following criteria which is 15.02.055C, the public benefits and utility of the vacation request outweigh any adverse impacts of the vacation. At the time of the application some residents and neighbors raised concerns that public parking in the complex could become more limited as a result of the vacation which may require some to park in the adjacent neighborhood or find other solutions for their parking. Next slide please. So this is a summary of the neighborhood input process. A neighborhood meeting is not required for a vacation of right of way despite the fact that it's a major application. And again the director may waive planning and zoning review if there are no unresolved issues but through the neighborhood input process we determined that a public hearing and recommendation from the commission may be beneficial in the event that again there was no neighborhood meeting and comments with objections were presented in the first round of notification I'll have more on that in a moment. This hearing just gives residents the opportunity to provide input and gives the commissioners the opportunity to ask the applicant any questions before making a recommendation. You can go to the next slide. So this is a summary of the notice procedure and the neighborhood input when this application was presented in early March. I received nine phone calls and one email which was included in your packet they were all in opposition to the application. In summary their concerns were mostly to do with HOA regulation on the parking spaces decreasing parking availability or requiring people to find other solutions for their parking. When I sent the notice for this hearing I received two comments one was a call and one was an email both were just requests for information with no further comment. We can go to the next slide. The commission has three options. We can recommend City Council approve the ordinance find the vacation and compliance recommend City Council approve the ordinance with conditions or recommend City Council deny the ordinance. Next slide please. Staff does recommend that the planning zoning commission recommend approval of the vacations evening City Council based on the application meeting the review criteria. Next slide. That's all for my presentation and the next step will be to have applicants speak and we can take any questions. All right, let's let's roll right into the applicants presentation please. Thank you Zach. Thank you. So Heather, you're going to want to give them the opportunity to unmute themselves. This is Joe Taylor I am the HOA Community Manager Zach first of all I was a great presentation. Sound like you've been doing that 100 times so great job there and thank you very much for this whole process. I personally have been involved with the bills that you Creek. Let me start my video here. I personally have been involved with the bills that you Creek since January of 2018. The association was built back in the early 2000s. It was always the assumption that these parking spaces on Whitehall Drive were part of the association, even to the point where over the last 20 or so years we've actually been maintaining the trees and the grass. In those areas on an ongoing basis. In 2015, it was brought to my attention at that time that for whatever reason that was brought up that that the HOA did not own those parking spaces. And at that time, the attorney that is no longer practicing and was involved was working with Ava with as well as with the board members. I got an email from Ava with I believe worked at the the planning department at that time that said no that the association does own those parking spaces that indeed was at that time confirmed with the association attorney. And so life went on. About a year and a half ago at this time. I got a call from somebody at the city in Longmont and asking questions about it again and I said, No, those are the association parking spaces. And they said, Well, they're not showing a recorded. I produced the email from Ava and the attorneys at that time and went back and forth and said yes, those are the association. And I said, Well, evidently, it never got properly recorded at that time back in 2015 and the ball just got dropped again. You know, a year and a half ago, which was when we started looking say, Okay, what do we need to do to finalize this process and then that's when we got involved with with Zach and have the appointment with the pre application team. They let us know and the board know what was needed to be done as far as the surveys and all that, which we did over the over the last year. So I mean, we've done the association still is under the understanding that it does belong to them. So at this point, we're just, I guess, trying to make everything official for lack of better terms. Just some quick bullet points here. If the, if it is approved, the road vacation will not have any impact to the city. The road vacation will have no impact on the adjoining neighborhoods is there's a continuous perimeter fence that defines a boundary of the HOA from other properties and neighborhoods. The road vacation is contained within this perimeter fence. Due to the limited parking in the HOA with the with those parking spaces that would allow 18 common area parking spaces for nine units. If we don't have those then we're going to be only have seven guest parking spaces for the 90 years. Again, the HOA has already been maintaining the area for the past 20 years, including the grounds of parking spaces, the plants, trees, watering, etc. The HOA will grant an easement and all real property vacated by city to the HOA. And again, there will be no financial impact to any part as a result of the road vacation. With all that said and done, you know, the, the bills you Creek Board of Directors is, is asking for approval to kind of make official what we thought was official for the last 20 years. I would like to, if you can unmute Nancy Clayton, the board president and she has any comments to what I just said, I would appreciate it. I'm unmuted. I don't have any further comments except that I have lived here 16 years and was told when we bought that we could not park overnight because of the limited number of spaces and we do have tandem garages that we have room for three cars. Two in the garage and one in the driveway. I just think that I would appreciate if the city would give us this in filing the records straight so that we know that we do have these parking places. Mr Taylor is, is that a conclusion of your presentation. Yes, yes, I have nothing further than I have. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr Taylor. Um, so do we have any questions from the commission that just clarify things right now, Commissioner height. Of course I need to get something clarified. I'm confused how many units are in the joy. 90 or 18 misunderstood. Mr Taylor. How many total units 9090 units. With the parking spaces that we're asking to be finalized there there would be 18 parking spaces, guess parking spaces. Thank you. That's it. Okay. Anybody else with questions at this time. Seeing none let's let's go ahead and open the public hearing part of this session. We already have Mr Williams on the line, but we need to make sure whether there are any other members of the public who would like to call in on this. So we'll put our slide up on the screen showing the phone number. Please call 1-888-788-0099 when prompted enter the meeting ID 838-3828-8942. This takes about five minutes for us to make sure we've got everybody pulled in. So I'll take a five minute break. Thanks. Chair, sure. Nick, we have about 30 more seconds. So I'm going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen. If the commissioners can come back on. Does not look like we have any additional callers at this time beyond our guests who called in earlier. Okay, great. Thank you. So we'll get started again. Mr Williams, phone number ending 529. Please go ahead and unmute your phone. Give us your name and address for the record. And we'll hear from you for up to five minutes. My address is 710 Clarendon Drive. I live in Spring Valley at U Creek, which is right on the other side of the villas. I just had a question for the petitioners of, you know, what's the history of those parking spots and the overnight parking and sewing. I've noticed quite a few cars that park right at the end boundary of our neighborhoods. At least one or two. I know to be rather than of Spring Valley, but I know, notice several others are potentially residents of the villas. And is there any suggestion that by vacating the row, you'll be able to tell people that live, that park there overnight and we'll start seeing increased traffic in Spring Valley as people park here to walk over to the villas. So Mr. Williams, just so you know, we don't really go through a Q&A sort of period during your comments. We're making note of your comments and we'll make sure that we try to get answers to your questions. Anything else you'd like to raise any other issues? That's the only issue for us. Zach explained all the other things I was the emailer asking questions today. So that's it. Thank you very much for your time. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Williams. All right, so we will close the public hearing part of this item and return to discussion amongst the commission. I'm a little confused myself as to exactly what's going on and maybe Zach, you can help explain this for me. Can you give us some history, as Mr. Taylor and Mr. Williams referred to, to exactly what's happened with these parking spaces, why they were or were not recorded. I'm just, I'm confused as to just what the heck's happening here. Can you guys hear me okay? It looks like my camera might be frozen. It tastes great. So I think this would be a good opportunity for Joe to chime in as well as far as the history on that parking. My understanding is that the parking spaces were initially signed as private parking and they were signed as such in the public right of way. That's kind of what brought about this application in the first place. But I'll let Joe speak about that. No, I think you're on the right track there, Zach. Again, since we've been maintaining that over the last 20 years, we always thought it was ours. We had the two cases where it was brought up that they might not be ours. And again, with the email with Eva and our attorneys in 2014 and 2015 and coming to the conclusion, yes, they are the association properties. And that was dropped again until spring of last year when it came up again. And we're like, no, we've got these emails between our attorneys and Eva, the city along on planning. They are ours. And then that's when they find out, well, it was never recorded that way. And then we're like, okay, what do we need to do that? And that's when we met with the pre application. We went over the process and kind of where we are today. You know, we spent about $5,000 just in survey costs alone to get this formalized for someone we thought had always been in place for the last 20 years. Okay. Commissioner height. Two things. Joe, in your materials there's an exhibit a and Zach in your materials there was a photograph. We can share first Zach's photograph of what these spaces look like sidewalk to me. I just want to confirm. That's exactly what if you were looking at from a Eagles view it would look like it's an extended sidewalk and those areas that's exactly what it would look like from from above. Okay, Zach. You know, Heather, can you pull up Zach's presentation and find that page with the picture of what these things look like. Yes, give me just one moment. Joe, Mr. Taylor. Is there an adjacent sidewalk. Nancy, can you answer that again. I mean across the street. There's a sidewalk but on that side. There's just street gutter and then where we have the parking spaces you've got the concrete but when those parking spaces. Yeah. So when those parking spaces and I don't believe there is a sidewalk past that front car and Nancy maybe you can expand on that a little bit. I can't picture that in my mind right now. Miss Clayton, because that looks like sidewalk to me. Joe is there any differences between this side of the street and the other side of the street. The other side of the street is just a sidewalk. Okay. I'm unmuted now. And the sidewalk is on the east side to be on your left on this picture. And this will be the picture of five parking places that are across from there that nearest to our mailbox pedestals. That will be at the north end of Whitehall. Going through our complex. That's the west side of Whitehall at the north end, the east side of Whitehall on that side of the, the other side of the street. Does it look any different? Well, it's a little less wide. So those parking places are wider than on the east side. Do you also park in front of those pine trees? Yes, that's a designated parking also. So there's five parking places. They're starting just a little bit to the left of the pine tree. And it's pretty hard to see. There's two cars and then there's three more parking places to the north to the back of those place cars. And so this entire 3000 foot vacation that they enjoy is seeking. Only can house 12 vehicles. Why is that? It's 3000 feet long. It's 11 parking places. So this is the most, this is five. And then if you head on south, there will be a driveway going into a standalone garage and there'll be three parking places. And then you come to a landscaped area of rocks and trees and shrubs. And you have three more of these places all on the west side of Whitehall as it curves from north to south. So those are the 11 that we thought as an HOA that they belong to us. And we have maintained them. And at one time, there was no signs up. But we found that some homeowners thought that they could just claim one for their own for long periods of time. And that's what started this back in 2014 of us being able to have a car towed if they stayed overnight or 48 hours or 72 hours. Okay, back to exhibit a which is the plotting of this 3500 foot long vacation. I mean, when I looked at it that that was uniformly wide. Are you explaining to us now that though the parcel that you're looking for is uniform and with it's not all paved. Some of it is rock. Some of it is landscape. Is that correct? Well, I have no idea what is 3700 square feet. I assume that has to come off of the survey that we paid for. That is correct. There's grass areas and rocked areas and all the way going through there that is correct. That's already an area that we were maintaining and have been for the last 20 years. Yeah, thank you. Chairman, sure. Nick, this is Susan. I could pull up Google Maps, which may give you a better overview to look at if you'd like. Yeah, please. Thank you. And let's go to Commissioner Kohler. I was going to suggest the same thing. If you actually go to the street view, they have a pretty good video or set of pictures that you can see the parking there. But one of my questions was, so what what's the difference, you know, practically speaking if the HOA owns these parking spots, or if the city does, is the HOA towing and currently, but the city isn't allowing that is that the scenario. The HOA we tow is the last resort. What we do is we, we, we tag it and say, Hey, there's no parking here from midnight to 6am from 601am to 1159pm. Anybody can park there. We don't care, but at midnight, it's got to be cleared out. Otherwise, there's vehicles that are just staying there for, you know, 4872 hours back in the day. And even a week or two on end and the city never took action. And the understanding was, well, you know, the city's not going to tow anybody if it's the association's property there. And then that, and Nancy, you can correct me on this back in 2014, that's when we started putting up the signs to say, Hey, no parking from midnight to 6am because the city just wasn't taking any action on towing cars. Nancy, is that a fair statement? Yes. So when we got the, when we spoke with Ava and got the word from the lawyer and Ava that these parking places belong to us, then is when we installed the signs saying no parking from midnight to 6am. And that you would be told at your own expense. But we have an application process that if a person does need to park there, they can apply and they can park up to seven days, according to our policy that we adopted after we got the word from our lawyer and Ava in 2014-15. So the idea is that these spaces are supposed to be for the visitors of the villas, not the homeowners who have a third vehicle or something parking there all the time. Correct. Ideally correct. Yes. Okay. Which is why with a limited number of, I'm sorry, I've been in a room. No, go ahead. That's why with the limited number of the spaces, it's essential because if we don't have these, we've got seven spaces or 90 units for guests. Okay. We have a little bit of an elderly community there too. So we've got a lot of caregivers and that kind of stuff that need to come and have access. And there's no plans to change the, because right now it looks like there's no parking allowed on that street, on that west side, unless you're in one of those spaces, there's no plans to change that, right? No, because the street is too narrow there. And that street is, I don't have the exact measurements, but Whitehall Drive going through villas at Creek is less number of feet wide than when you go out, when you make the right hand turn and go west on Whitehall Drive, that becomes a wider street. So if anyone parks on, not in one of those parking places, then you have basically a one-way traffic area through Whitehall Drive. Okay, that answers my questions. Thank you. I saw some other hands up from other commissioners. Commissioner Flig. Thank you, Chair. There. But your sound is now muted, Janelle. Apparently somebody said they couldn't hear me. This is for the traffic engineer. I'm curious as to if Whitehall is actually a public or private road for the entire complex? Whitehall Drive is a public road. The loop coming around, I don't want to say a horseshoe, but almost like a race track there, that's all private. But the section from what part to what part is public? From Pace Street to where Whitehall Drive and Clareton Drive meet that part of Whitehall Drive going west. Yeah, right where that arrow is right now is public. So then my question is, what is the width of that street presently the public part of it? I know it was measured. I'm going to say it was 16 feet, but I don't know. I know it was part of the application process that the surveyor did look at. Okay. And what we took as our own measurements was that the street is 21 feet, 6 inches wide. And when it makes the turn to the west, it's 34 feet, 6 inches wide. So a difference of 7 feet. I understand Doug Boss is there. Are you part of the traffic engineering people? I am not a part of the traffic engineers, but I am one of the public works engineers. So I believe, and this is an estimate, I believe it's approximately from flowline to flowline. It's about 21 to 22 feet, which is generally the minimum section that you would have for traffic in both directions. I could pull up the subdivision plan and give you the total right-of-way width, which would include the sidewalk. And I'll have that in one second. So it's approximately 34 feet in total right-of-way width. So that'd be measured from generally back-of-walk to this parking. So the parking takes off about a third of the entire right-of-way area, paved right-of-way area. That'd be correct. In some areas it's paved, in some areas it's grass, but this is not a typical street. Typically what you would see is you'd have widened asphalt, and that's where your parking is at, is in the asphalt. It's one of the commissioners that mentioned this is designed more almost like a sidewalk. So it's basically mimics what sidewalk would look like, but it is parking. Okay, thank you. Susan, could you pull back up the Google Maps shot? I have a question for Mr. Taylor about this. And if you could zoom back in just a little bit. Thank you. And if you wouldn't mind just scooting the image over to the right a little bit so we can see the Clarendon Drive a little better. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. So Mr. Taylor, where? So we know that on your survey that the easement is shown down toward the southern tail of this. But then it starts the sidewalk curves and you see a silver car parked there right by the word Whitehall Drive. Yep, that one. Where does your ownership of Whitehall Drive begin and end as the HOA? So if I remember correctly, when I was up there with the survey, and Nancy might want to chime in too, I believe it's right where the trees go to, yeah, right there, right about there, that area right there is where the, Nancy, is that correct? Yes, can you see the privacy fence? Well, you can't hardly see it. But if you see the white car on Whitehall Drive, that one, and then just go a little bit to the west of that behind that bush is our fence. And then it comes to the south and it ends just in those trees down here to the south. And so all of that is our HOA. And then it, so Claire, about where the difference in the pavement, the color, the darker would be billows and the lighter would be spring valley. Yeah. So it seems that like from Mr. Williams' comments and questions, that it's this juncture between the villas HOA and spring valley HOA and who controls parking spaces and how they're getting enforced. And this all goes to the question of, is there an adverse impact on to the surrounding neighborhood? That's where I'm headed with questions. So Mr. Taylor, if, so you folks are trying to clear your parking out between midnight and 6am. But during the day, you don't really know who's parked there. It could be somebody from spring valley. It could be a caregiver from some other part of the city. It could be anybody, correct? That's correct. Okay. But at midnight, you would go ahead and tow a car that's still parked there because you're trying to make sure that people are not squatting on the spaces permanently and just taking them out of commission altogether. We wouldn't tow it. We would tag it and just basically say you're in violation of the bills that you create code and it would have my phone number on there to say contact me and then if they call me, you know, I educate them, hey, these are the bills that you create parking spaces. You can park there any day, but at midnight from midnight to 6am, it's got to be moved. We don't, we, I think we've towed one car in the almost three years I've been involved there and it was actually abandoned. So we, we are not in the practice of, we don't, we don't like, I don't like towing calls, cars, I don't like getting the calls that we towed cars. So it's always as the last resort. We've never actually that I've been involved have towed a resident car there. The only, again, the only one that's towed was actually abandoned vehicle. Okay. One of the concerns seems to be, and I think I saw this in the, the letter that was in our packet was that if your HOA controls these spaces instead of the city controlling them, that parking will be pushed into spring valleys area. How do you respond to that. My response would be that if it's one of, it shouldn't be any of our, our, our homeowners or residents because we have either a two car garage and two places to park a car on the driveway or the worst case scenario. We've got a one car garage with an option to park in an assigned parking spot there. I'd be very surprised if, if, I mean, I've heard of that one. This is the one case that I heard of was what the other resident told her on Claire and brought up, but I don't. I mean, I'm over there two, three times a month and I've never seen an abundance of vehicles on that little area from on Whitehall Drive from, from our private type area to Claire. So from, from your experience, you're telling me that, that you do not witness overflow parking from, from your HOA ending up in the neighboring HOA era of spring. I do not but Nancy might be able to speak better that because she actually lives on the premises I'm usually there either, you know, in the morning or in the afternoon. So Nancy, do you see a, see a overflow of our residents going on to that area. On occasions. But I would say it's minimal. We had one resident that had a motorcycle that he didn't want to put in his garage so he parked over there probably maybe 48 hours or more at a time. Um, I would say that any resident over there clared in an area has the option to call the code enforcement police, etc. Right. Okay. Thank you, Miss Clayton. Thank you, Mr. Taylor. More comments questions from the commission. Mr. Taylor, Ms. Claring or Ms. Claren. Sorry, clared in is the street. Very in is your name in any event. I'm assuming that there are times when these 12 spaces might be used for guests for up to seven days I think is what you indicated your policy where the policy is. Do you ever get maxed out? Do you ever have 12 visitors at one time there for over a week? No, we have, we have never in my 16 years of living here. And how long do you have the seven day permits? I'm sorry, I didn't understand you. How often in a year would you grant a seven day permit? We have granted maybe six a year. So our most of our residents only have two cars. And our requirement is that they have to have two cars in the garage and one in their driveway. So that allows three cars. So many times an overnight guest can park in the residents driveway. And that we do not take into consideration that people want to use part of their garage for storage. I have a question for Zach. Zach, if, if the villa's HOA did not control these parking spaces and parking was allowed by anyone anytime just like on any other public street, what have you and, and other city staff determined would be the effect on spring? What's it called? The other HOA, spring valley. Interesting. So you're asking what the impact is specifically just so I'm clear. And what would be the impact on spring valley if the you, the villas at I'm getting my HOA names mixed up. If they were not given this, this vacation and therefore did not control these spaces and these spaces remained public parking. So like you mentioned right now, they are public parking. Anyone can park there and that includes non residents of villas at you Creek at present. If the vacation goes forward, then that parking becomes private parking, right? It becomes HOA property. So that does give the HOA the ability to regulate and, you know, place tags on people's cars. And again, how they choose to do that I'll leave up to them to further clarify. So that presents a potential adverse impact for any member of the public who was seeking to park in those spaces. So what we see is that in the review criteria 15.02.055 the way this words is the public benefits and utility of the vacation request outweigh any adverse impacts of the vacation. It isn't necessarily that the vacation creates any adverse impacts itself. So that's kind of the line that you're trying to determine here. Okay, great. Thank you for that clarification. Zach, another question for you. Given the current state, what are the city laws rules regarding how long somebody can be parked in one of those spots? Sure. Right now, any public parking space and public right of way the maximum duration is 72 hours before they would be required to move. Thank you. Commissioner Goldberg. Thank you, General. I think jumping off of Commissioner Poland's question, Zach, what is the course of action that Joe Taylor and the villa that you could take if they were concerned with a vehicle being residing in one of those spots for longer than 72 hours? In lieu of going through the right of way vacation. Just in general, if things remain, if things remain as they are now without a vacation. Sure. So right now they would be able to contact code enforcement if there's a vehicle in place or contact law enforcement. And it's safe to say that code enforcement is responsive to inquiries or complaints, if you will, by ways and other organizations that have concerns about a vehicle. I'm sorry, the beginning of your question cut out a little bit. Is it safe to say that code enforcement is responsive to complaints or concerns raised regarding vehicles that have been parked for too long in one spot? Yeah, I would say so. And then my last question also for you. I just speak to it. I'm sorry if it was clear in the packet, but is it safe to say that the Spring Valley HOA has been notified about this request for vacationing of the of the spaces and have we heard from them at all? I might have expected to hear from them when publicly invited you heard or, you know, some communication throughout. Certainly, as part of our notification process, we do notify local neighborhood groups, including HOAs, when I sent the notification out initially, I didn't get a response from that HOA. I did get calls from neighbors, that's the presentation, but nothing from the HOA group specifically. Zach, another question regarding this. So currently, who does who does the road plowing of this particular area? So I assume the city probably does the street, but then does the city do those parking spaces as well? Or do you just basically plow the street and basically push the snow into those parking spaces? I would venture since that's a local street and a non priority plowing street in a large snow event. My assumption is that they don't plow the spaces themselves, that the HOA manages that. And Joe, I'm sure can speak to what happens. Zach's correct. They, if and when they play that plow the street, but we, again, the last 20 years have been plowing those parking spaces. Okay. And then Zach, Joe Taylor indicated that they've been doing the maintenance of the right away part that is in parking spaces, whether it's rock or whether it's, I guess, it might be grass. That means then that technically the city actually should be taking care of that, correct? That depends on, you know, what specifically the development agreement originally presented and what the responsibility of the HOA in that development agreement entails. Pretty commonly for residential developments, the, you know, any right of way that's as part of your development is maintained by the owner. And in this case, that's the HOA has come in most, you know, residences in the city. So if, if in the event that say there was damage to the curb there in the city right of way, they could contact the city and the city could be responsible for repairing it. That's not uncommon and that right would be waived in the event the vacation goes forward in this area. Does that make sense? That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah. Commissioner Hyde. Thank you. Zach, I have more questions too. In your presentation, there was a recommendation, I think for a condition that there be a curb cut to delineate between street and parking area. Is that correct? That I'll let Doug speak about that one. That's a condition of approval from staff. If Doug is still. Yep, I'm still here. So Mr. Hyde. Yes, that is correct. We are requiring after council approves the vacation ordinance and before that we record it. That they actually saw cut a joint between the parking and the curb. So the city will still own and maintain the curb and all the street. And the parking needs to be owned by them. So to, so to reduce any conflicts in the future of ownership, we would have them install a curb or a socket along that line. Mr. Taylor, you're in agreement with that condition. We are. Great. Possibly done the next question too. There was a discussion about rededication or grab or obtaining the city obtaining new easements. Are there utilities or other portions inside the parking area that needs access to. So yeah, we so with this, when we vacate it, we want to maintain the city's right to use that entire space, whether it be for maintaining the roadway. So if we need a staging area to put stuff in, or if we need, you know, if we need to just get in there for forming things up like the curb and gutter, we want to be able to maintain that right to get on that property. There are several utilities located in the right of way, but not within the area that's being vacated. So we will be maintaining our right to be able to go in there and maintain it as we see fit. And Mr. Taylor is the HOA, all right with that part of it. That easement agreement requirement for access easement agreement. Yes, we're fine with that. So Zach, it seems like possibly we need two conditions to approve this. As presented. That there be a curb cut and that the HOA enter into an appropriate easement agreement. No, those, those were required as part of the staff review. Those were required prior to us making this presentation. So those are included in the approval if you approve it without conditions. Don, planning manager Don Durchett. Chairman Schoenach commission, I think to be consistent with the way that we typically do the vacations I think commissioner height is right we should add the two conditions and look at PZRB with those two conditions recommended to the city council. And that's exactly when we do the vacations to council and we need to make sure that we receive those easements, or a condition is met. In order for that vacation to take effect. We document those in the ordinance. And so I would recommend that we that the commission include that in their recommendation if that's the route that you choose. Thank you. Thank you Don. Any more thoughts. Questions, commissioner on Iran. You're still muted. Sorry. I think this parking area has been used as a visitor parking and even though it's legally a public space so if there's no vacation. The parking is going to be public parking. If it is vacated, it's going to be visitor parking. And I don't see much difference between public and visitor. They are the same people. The difference from HOA is that it's not for their advantage to not use this as a visitor parking, except for some, you know, rare occasions where a resident asked for overnight or two days parking for a family visiting that particular household. And sounds like city already provides 72 hour room. So, as conclusion, I don't see much of a impact of this particular request of vacation. That's my thanks. Commissioner Poland. Yeah, I do agree with Commissioner on Iran. In looking at the public benefits and utility versus any adverse impacts of the vacation. I agree that I don't see that there's too much of an adverse impact. It doesn't sound like there's been no proof that there's an order in an amount of people who use that parking who would need it for overnight. It sounds like for the most part, most of the pieces have three parking spaces that seems to be more than enough to handle it. And it just seems like it would be really a stretch that if you take away that parking from midnight to 6am that all of a sudden you're going to have a flood of people going out to Clarendon. I just really don't see that happening. And by allowing this vacation, it does kind of clean up this part of the city streets, the ownership and the maintenance of it. It just makes it a lot cleaner. So at this point, unless something else comes up, I would be for the vacation of this. Commissioner flag. I think I agree with Commissioner Poland in that it does clean up the situation. It also makes clear where the parking really should be designated. Parkings are allowed to be parked on by anyone at any time for any reason up to 72 hours. And if you have the area that is can be used very well as guest parking for the HOA of the condos used as public parking that anybody can just zoom in there and there they are and it's up to the residents to make sure nobody's parking there when they shouldn't. And if they go a little further, they'd be in a public straight to be no problem. So I will be supporting the vacation. Thank you. Any other further thoughts commissioner Goldberg. Yeah, thanks chairman. I think for reasons that by commissioner on runs. Okay, do we have a motion. Anybody want to make a motion. Commissioner height. I think it's PCR seven B. I don't have my numbers. But it's approval with conditions and conditions being wanted to PCR 2027 B with the conditions being that a curb cut be installed. Okay, thank you commissioner height we have a motion to approve 2020 dash seven Z seven B, which has two conditions one about a curb cut the other about an easement commissioner Poland. I will second that motion. Seconded by commissioner Poland. Any further discussion. Let's take a vote. Those in favor say aye raise your hand. Aye. Any opposed. Any abstentions. Seeing none that passes unanimously. And this item will now be forwarded to the Longmont City Council for action. If you're unfamiliar with council procedures and intend to appear before council. Please contact the planning division for further information. At 303. 651833 zero. Mr. Taylor. Miss Clayton. Thank you for taking your time to present to us. Zach and Doug. Thank you for being here tonight as well. We have some more business to take care of on our agenda. So we'll move on to that. Item seven is our final call public invited to be heard. We'll put our slide up again for how people can call in if they want to make a comment. About something that was not on tonight's agenda. And if you want to do that, call 1-888-788-0099. Enter a meeting ID 838-3828-8942. It's 1-888-788-0099. Enter 838-3828-8942. It takes us about five minutes to get everybody entered into the meeting. So we'll take a five minute break. Thanks. Chair. Sure. Nick. We did not have anyone in our waiting room. Okay. Thank you, Heather. So we'll move on to any items from the commission. Any commissioners have anything? Seeing nothing. Let's see. We don't have council representative Rodriguez with us tonight. Any items from Don Bercha are planning manager chairman. Sure. Nick. Just wanted to pass on compliments to everybody again for working with us with this technology. Wanted to say thank you to Heather and Susan and to Jane for all their hard work on making this seamless for us. We really do appreciate all that. And then also just wanted to thank again, Doug and Zach for their work on the vacation request to make it make it. I think fairly easy to understand something that could have been pretty complicated. So I just wanted to say thank you to them. And that's all that I have. So thank you. Great. Thank you very much, Don. And unless anybody is opposed. We will adjourn. All right. We're adjourned. Oh, right. Commissioner. Commissioner height. I just want to say Zach. Great job. Yes. Good job, Zach. And welcome to the team. All right. Okay. We're adjourned. Take care.