 In part two of our conversation with João Pedro Sédile, one of the co-founders of the Landless World Workers Movement and a member of the International People's Assembly, he discusses the governability and decision-making capacity of the Lula government in the face of a Conservative Senate and Chamber of Deputies. He also discusses the proposals that the MST will present to the incoming Lula government. We never had a congress. Even in 1988, when we built the best constitution that Vigor until today, we had 16 deputies on the left. All the others were from conservative parties. However, we have managed to build a progressive constitution. So we should not worry about the nature of the congress. The congress reflects the correlation of social forces that exist in society. This process of alliances that Lula has built with sectors of bourgeoisie and traditional parties, these are only part of institutional liturgy to give security to the government. I think Lula is committed to real changes to solve the problems of the people. So the degree of radicality of the Lula government or of advance in structural changes does not depend on these alliances nor on their will. It will depend on the capacity of the popular sources to be mobilized and to press masses. Because in the history of humanity, always, all structural changes were works of mass mobilization. And of course, when you have a progressive government or popular movement with a progressive government, that results in a correlation of forces that can build structural changes. So the changes depend more on us, on the masses, on the popular sources, than on the will of Lula or on any other president. For more than a leftist president, that is how it is said. That is how it is said in Cuba, Venezuela, Argentina, Mexico, or in any country. The 58 million that voted in Bolsonaro are not Bolsonaro's. At least 30 million are poor workers, maybe the poorest we have in society. Maybe the poorest we have in society, who live in the periphery and who were influenced by a lot of money, money applied on the networks, because Brazil is the country of the world most connected to WhatsApp, where the poor have access. So for WhatsApp, for Facebook, for the networks in general, they invested a lot of money to convince and illusion that people. After that, there were many public resources that were managed in a secret way, protected in law, the so-called secret amendments, that applied around $8,000 million in one year, without having the obligation to say where it was applied. And that money, you all know, came to the alcaldias, and the conservative alcaldias transformed them into money that were later to buy votes to illusion people. So I think it is not a job, it is not to worry about the ideology of those 8-10% of middle class white people, who are ideologically reactionary, always were. They are heir to slavery, if you want. They are heir to all the discrimination processes in Brazil, against blacks, against women, against other sexual options. So we should not worry about them, because that right and ignorant always existed and will exist, not only in Brazil, but in all capitalist societies. Our concern is with workers. And there are many challenges that on the left, in general, through popular sources, movements, parties and churches, we must put our concerns. First, to resume the base work, which means helping people to be aware of all forms, but above all with dialogue, going home, distributing materials, talking. Second, to promote mass struggles. People only learn when they fight politically. So the left has to organize the mass struggle. If there is a lack of employment, fight for employment. If there are lack of food, fight for food. If there is a lack of house, fight for house, if there is a lack of land, fight for land. That is to promote mass struggle. Third, we have to promote political formation. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall, the left abandoned the formation processes. There are almost no schools of political formation. So how are we going to form our militants? Because political formation is to study, to learn from the classics, to learn from the history of the class struggle that every people has. And that is done in the formal spaces of schools, where you have to dedicate time to study. It is not formed by militants with seminars of two or three days in hotels. Always when the left enters a hotel, it is already deformed. Hotels for tourism, for travelers. Forming people is at school, it is in the street, it is in the mass struggle. Fourth, we need to recover the cultural processes. I refer to music, theater, poetry, painters, moralism. Now, through these mechanisms, to lead the political education, to deal with the problems of society, that is what always happened in the history of the class struggle. Since the barricades of the Paris Commune. And we did not learn. The left is still full of a stupidity that is to think that it is done political education with meetings, with oratory, with speeches. That enters on one side and comes out on the other. So we have to use the cultural media that reach the heart of the people to promote political education. So that the people feel located with the left in a pleasurable cultural way. And not only because some party is affiliated, because it received some kind of limousine and even some kind of political charge. And finally, of course, we cannot abandon the mass communication that is done with the networks, with radio, with television. That all these are important spaces to sow true information that people can interact with. So, look, there are many challenges that the left has to face in Brazil, in Latin America, in the world. To be able, in the next period, to face that right-wing wave that exists. Luckily, look at the contradictions. The emergence of the extreme right in the world with its methods of lies. In reality, what they defeated was the social-democratic path. What they defeated was a right. That was believed to be republican, that was believed to be changed every four years. So, as a popular force, we have to take advantage of these contradictions and achieve, then, to build a popular organization that advances beyond what was the social-democracy and is hegemonized by the bourgeoisie. We are going to present concrete proposals to promote a popular agrarian reform to help expand the production of food that so much our people need. To put the agrarian policy in the center of nature's defense, we defend zero-killings, that is, there is no need to plant any more trees. We defend another policy for mining, which is subordinated to the interests of the people. We defend the need for water defense, and for this we have to do a great program of reflorestation in our country, in our cities. Because the tree is to protect water. Where there is a tree, there is water. Where there is no tree, there is no water. And we have to do a great program of solar energy, a great program of education of our people in the field, a great program of implementation of cooperated agro-industries which is what makes progress the social relations of production in the field. All of this we are going to dialogue with the government so that there are changes in agriculture. And I believe that Lula has enough awareness and experience that the changes themselves are in the government, depends on the popular mobilization, on the price. So, the MST will do its role to organize the fields to make pressure for the government. And we will look with the other popular forces that live in the city to face another challenge that we have here in Brazil that are those despised masses that live in the periphery of the cities. They are disorganized, no one organizes them, not even the Pentecostal churches. We only know that they are 70 million, that the majority are women, that the majority are blacks, that the majority are young and that they live in the periphery of the cities. But the left does not know how to organize them, because the methods of organization that we know are from the previous period of industrial capitalism. When, throughout the 20th century, we develop the unions, the associations and the parties, that is not enough to organize the women, the young, the blacks. So, the left has to be creative and look for new forms of organization of those people who live in the periphery. And, hopefully, we can make a dialogue with the government, then propose public policies directed especially to that population that can then reincorporate them into a real citizenship so that they can be part of our society, because now they are isolated, excluded from the productive sphere, from the employment of the rights and public policies.