 Okay, in case you're just joining us, it is the Friday edition of the Breakfast on Plostivy, Africa. And it's time for the press, and we have been joined by Judy Johnson, Chief Lecturer at the Jordan Institute of Journalism, Lagos State. Good morning to you, Mr. Johnson. Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you, Maureen, and to have you all over the world. Thank you for having me. Pleasure having you too. Well, let's go straight and begin with the Punch Newspaper. And the Punch Newspaper is leading with Chicago Record. Tinubu betrayed me. I'll fight till Supreme Court's verdict. That's a tickle, a boobacar. Details of that, you can find on pages two and three of the Punch Newspaper. The writer's there, Tinubu's supported Yerrodoa, PDP in 2007 presidential election, says ex-Vice President. Tico's political career has ended. He got nothing from Chicago Vestity, APC. Let's start with this one, Mr. Johnson. Well, yeah, I'm listening. Yeah, go ahead. This case. Clearly, we haven't seen the end of it. No retreat, no surrender. That's what the former VP is saying. However, APC is saying he's been on a wild goose chase. He hasn't gotten anything from his Chicago endeavor. Well, until the Supreme Court in Nigeria rules on the matter, we'll actually know the true situation of things. Because the outcome of the deposition and the judgment by the various courts in the United States of America concerning the status of the president as a student and concerning the Sabbath kid was going to be subjected to different interpretations by legal scholars. The legal scholars with the highest kind of qualification, you can think of SCN on either side. On either side of the divide, we have had different positions being taken. Well, until the Supreme Court rules on that matter. But will the Supreme Court admit it? That's another thing. Will they admit it? That's not what we should be suggesting. Well, in this matter and in this situation, I think that if indeed there are no smoking guns, I see no reason why the Supreme Court shouldn't admit it. It is a response, it is abuse on them to admit all evidence and prove beyond reasonable doubt and clear all doubts surrounding the legality of the certificate the president is parading as well as the studentship and clear these ones and for all. As far as I'm concerned, it is international embarrassment that subjected us to as a nation and as a people. And people don't know the long run implication of it. I have a book on public relations written by one of the foremost scholar, Frisa Seter. In 2011, the edition was given to me by Atabed the Gift. Now, in that book in chapter 11, when we were talking about writing for PR, specifically, the author in that book said, even if a former Nigerian guy can know how to write, how much more youth that you are practicing PR. Next week, I'll screenshot the book. After this, it's on my desk as we're talking about. I'll screenshot it and post it online and I'll share it with you. So, people don't know the implication of the need for us to put this thing with. This issue has gone beyond politics and the issue must be clear. And all the legalese surrounding it should be explained in such a way that an average person should understand. And that critical role of the watchdog of making an interpretation of clarified issues lies with the media. And I think to a larger extent, the media is shying away from its responsibility. With respect to letting Nigerians know the true nature. Because just check out the way the headlines are being framed. Just check out the narrative that has been given to the story. For example, look at the way Ponte Niswapakasi, like Tinumbu, are fighting the end. The way Tinumbu betrayed me, are fighting the Supreme Court. Now, you look at the way Ponte reported it. It's from the point of political betrayer, not on the substantive issue. With respect to the status of the president, his educational qualification. And you take across media spectrum. And then the president himself needs to clear this issue, not to speak to his audience. He himself needs to clear this particular issue. As far as I'm concerned, whatever I say now, people would tell me to be opinion because I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a judge until the Supreme Court in Nigeria rules over that particular matter. And if it's not an issue in 2023, if the president is successful as a Supreme Court in 2027, it will become a major issue. But I've shared it within France. Let's say there's a cloak of controversy around the nominee for a minister. Let's say this cloak of controversy is around the nominee for a minister. Or around someone that is meant to be employed probably as the GMD of NNPC. Or is meant to be employed as the MD, CEO of one of the multinational corporations. What do you think the Board will have done with respect to this particular matter? It's become something which, as a Nigerian, as a legatian, as an African, I am ashamed of. Because this student, even trapped to this matter, asks me, if I'm in the office, if he asks me for my credentials, for all of my credentials, if I'm in the office, because it's in the office, I'll bring everything out and I'll share everything with you. So there shouldn't be too much fuss about this particular matter. This matter has generated lots of interest, home and abroad. Everywhere you go, it's a topic of discussion. Yes, Punch must have taken their headline from the question that was asked. The former VP did hold a press conference addressing this matter. One of the journalists asked him a question, saying he betrayed that President Tenubu helped him sometime in the past. And he's betraying him by going this route, and then he gave the explanation, which is where Punch took this from. But the VP made it clear, he was explaining, that this is about upholding integrity of that office and has called the other presidential candidates from other parties to join him in this fight. Why was the jury not reported from that angle? Why was it not true that Nigerians are no longer further confused? Why was the narrative taken from the political betrayal? And I knew quite right that he said, as far as his concern, that there's no base of betrayal on this matter. He will push this particular case onto the swimming court, and if this court rules on the matter, he will shit his sword. He actually did say, just as the writer here captured, Tenubu supported Yara Dua, PDP in 2007. He went back to explain that, contrary to what people may have thought, that President Tenubu did not support him back then, that he supported Yara Dua, which is why Yara Dua won. So he's saying it's contrary to what the journalist thought, that he's the one betraying Tenubu, that in fact it is Tenubu that betrayed him in 2007. So it's their fight. However, as you have said, this thing has gone beyond the political connotation. It's become a national embarrassment for all Nigerians, and indeed it's something that should be trashed out, so that, you know, what exactly is it? The deposition we had hoped would give more clarity, but as it stands today, the different lawyers from the different positions are giving different explanations to it. The historians also are divided on it. Those who like the President are saying, oh, he did not this, he did not that, this is what the deposition says. And those who do not like the President are saying, well, let me not say do not like the President. Others are saying, no, it shows that he forged the certificate he presented to INEC. It shows that the secondary school he claimed that he attended, he didn't attend it. It shows that. So it's just going here and there. It's all about the place, and it's so embarrassing for the nation, as you have said. Yeah, some certain facts are clear. Some certain facts are clear. And these facts are not something which just came up now. They came up 24 years ago, precisely. Some of these facts are in the public domain. Now, what you require now to make them become the truth, the acceptable fact is the courts in Nigeria ruling or accepting some of the facts in the deposition got into this ago as becoming facts. Because it's clear that there are issues that are raised by that deposition. And I have said it, if this issue was raised concerning the nominee for the VC of UNILAC, or for the VC of UNN, or the VC of Biorea University, if these issues were raised concerning such nominee, what do you think will happen to such nominee? Definitely, it will be dropped. But what also do you say? As someone in academics, it is very clear. If someone has this baggage, and the baggage is not clear, and the person is seeking an admission, the person will not get an admission, it's clear. There's no need for us beating around the bush. And it's, as far as I'm concerned, it is more or less like shooting oneself in the foot. Because in 2019, the Supreme Court saw what had down the qualification for the office based on their interpretation that if you present anything, and you say it is equivalent to that, it becomes, you know, we still don't know what the bar with Bwari's nomination and issues surrounding the certificate, whether it's certificate or not certificate, and loss of certificate and presentation. It got to the point that Wayak reproduced a certificate with the image of the president, whereas I had graduated before the president, long after the president graduated from school. My certificate does not even have my photograph on it. So it has become so ridiculous. Yeah, that was legendary. That was legendary. But what do you say? What do you say of those who say that this whole Chicago State University certificate thing is a major distraction and should be thrown aside so that we can move the country forward? No, no, no, no, no, no. They are playing. Whoever that has seen, they have been an economic car with the truth. The bottom line is that whatever claims, if you make a wrong claim to an office, that's your lean, a wrong foundation. There's nothing you can build on foundations of life. These are eternal principles. There are some principles that cannot. So beneficiaries of the system will be telling you that, no, it doesn't make any sense. Less history. But this country went, went a gog with hysteria. Now, the largest, then you can even call it hyperbolic hysteria. When a young girl forged allegedly forged a jam resource. And then everybody had a comment. The National Assembly looked into the matter. The chairman, the jam registrar called the press conference and the issue even further heightened the divisions between the two major ethnic groups in the southern part of Nigeria. So as far as I'm concerned, even though it lives in glass houses, must not throw stone. It is very, very clear that whoever wants to lead us must be clean and crystal clear like a glass, not having any spot or wrinkle on him. So with this matter, as far as I'm concerned, this matter, I'm looking at it with the way my children will be treated in future, with the way my grandchildren will be treated, with the way I'll be looked at as a Nigerian. One of the things I took out of the deposition, because there's no need to play into the gallery on this particular matter, is when the registrar said it is a Nigerian thing, it's clear. There are some things that are very, very clear. One, the certificate the president paraded was not issued to him by the school. The school affirmed that, well, Wala E. Chinungu graduated from their school. The one from, what is the name of this, which is daily school, South Western College. So that the question concerning the gender can only be answered by South Western College. Was that a typographical error or not? And then there are elements. There are elements in the certificate presented by the president to INE that does not reflect or represent what it's in the same version of the certificate of Chicago State University. And so if you put that together, it is very, very clear. And then I have seen the video, not was too, because as a journalist and teacher of journalists, I belong to the fourth estate of the realm, which is an institution of order, not disorder. There is an institution of order. It's an institution of checks and balances. It's the one that is meant to hold people accountable. I have heard the president himself doing the course of the course. In Tata Mouse, where he said that the school issued him certificate on the basis of fidelity, on the basis of trust. Look, we have had, we have required people in the past with questionable credentials to throw the part of honor and dignity. And those that refused to do the part of honor and dignity were to the instrumentality of the state, were asked to take their leave. So that's around the way I started. Look, this matter is before the Supreme Court. Let, within the next 45 days, the Supreme Court will rule on the matter. Let's listen to what the courts in Nigeria will say concerning the matter. And whatever the court in Nigeria says concerning the matter, whatever the outcome, I think that good parties should accept whatever the outcome. That even if it favors the president, people should allow all Nigerians to join in and support him to complete his tenure. If it's otherwise, then there is a need for us to start all over again. However, one thing we must take clear out of it is that those that have clamored for the breaking down of INEC into various bodies, there must be a body, a body that screens credentials or that we do the proper screening of candidates so that we don't face these kind of problems again. That what due diligence when it comes to due diligence? Since INEC cannot do it. Since INEC, because we have encumbered INEC with a lot of responsibility. So there's a need for us to look at electoral funds so that those that were elected into higher office, we also have higher responsibility. We are higher integrity and will present the right level of trust and credibility that is required. And there's the need for this constitutional amendment, the one that must present its cusat and its equivalent. I think we need to look at that constitutional amendment and resolve this particular matter. And there are no issues. All litigations concerning electoral matters should be resolved before swearing in. Because there's no doubt, like some have argued, this is a major distraction. This is a major distraction for the president. This is a major distraction for the country. This is a major distraction for every one of us because instead of governors, in the last 100 days Foucault has been on litigations, clouds surrounding the legality or illegality of the presidential, the president presented for his election and it's across the state, even across the 36 states, 29 states actually, where we had elections. And then even for the National Assembly members, they are still facing litigation. So the National Assembly members are still facing litigation. As you can see, members are still facing litigation. And then the president is still facing litigation. Governors that were elected in March are still facing litigation. For almost six months, within the four years tenor, which they have, you'll be facing litigation. What kind would you now have for governance? And I think that there's enough for us to review this particular issue. That's what Ulysses Bakoba had advised. That's what Ulysses Bakoba SA& had advised. Yeah, so that we can really face governors and these people accountable to the promises they made while they were campaigning for public office. Alright, let's move on. Above the master, you have, they were deserted as petrol-landing costs heat 720 naira a litre. Well, there's no doubt that that is your first subsidy removal or non-remover of your first subsidy and the unified exchange rate of the dollar will be revisited. Like I said last week, and I've said over time, sometimes making progress might mean you retracing your step. No matter how long you travel on the wrong path, you never get your destination. Now, on this particular matter, I think that there's a need for the president and his economic team to have a rethink and look at what is there to be done. Look, some of the things that were done that really caused immediate disruption and dislocation of the economy when the president came in his inaugural speech to cardinal policies of his administration was read out during his inaugural speech. That's one removal of first subsidy to unified exchange rate and then also by the actions, the next thing the president did was to go after, or the administration did, let me put it in that perspective, was to go after the regulators of the monetary policies in Nigeria. The central bank governor, as we speak, is still under custody, allegedly is resigned, and the new governors, even the deputy governors themselves, also devolved, resigned. A new governor of the central bank has been sworn in and the deputies, they've been nominated, confirmed, and have resumed their duty in the central bank. If you look at that, those actions caused immediate disruption and if I had to it, that it took the president up to the 60th day that was allowed by the constitution with respect to him sending his nominee for minister. So for a long while, our monetary policy was floating because there was no substantive central bank governor and then the fiscal policy was also struggling because there was no economic team in place, there was no minister of finance and minister of budget and the rest of it in place for almost, for more than 60 days after resumption of the president. So there are some basic principles, part one plus one, it's true. So the effect we are seeing in every sector and in every strata of our economy and that there were decisions that were taken, those decisions don't necessary, but were taken in the East without having an adequate understanding of the true nature of the problem. That's, look, the president has never had public office after 2007. That's for a fact. The last time he had public office was in 2007 and then he assumed the presidency 16 years after and without having an understanding of the workings of the trappings of public governors after leaving office for 16 years it took some certain policy and some people are floating and with some of us said, the president needs to have a full, what we have said concerning that matter is in the public domain that anybody can assess anytime. We discuss this particular issue on this particular program at the same time. So it's very clear that those that were elected to public office was understand why they are elected for a four year term for a four year term and they are four years to program and every day counts and it's important for them to understand that they are long term get-hold that will guide you in your decision making. Decision making is aided by intelligence. Intelligence is information gathering and making sense of the information you have gathered. It is not subjected to your whims and your caprices. It is not subjected to your emotions. The public governance is not by emotion or by feelings and it is as a result of the emotions and the feelings and the phobia surrounding that that we have found ourselves in this. Yeah, and there is said to be one of the worst performing currencies on the continent right now that's according to the World Bank. Now let's move forward and look at the other topics on the headlines on the punch newspaper just beside that one which you're talking about still on the punch newspaper manufacturers experiencing toughest period in history. Now as according to the manufacturers association of Nigeria I've been talking about there's a lot of them have closed shop a lot of them have had to sack people the devaluation of the currency is not helping matters at all. Manufacturers experiencing toughest period in history. Ministry of the works ministry 6 217 billion Naira to repair 260 roads and on the front page you have the picture of the vice president along with the labor leaders as the math teachers yesterday you know being the fifth of October the annual celebration of teachers in Nigeria and across the world. NUT demands more reforms teachers who undergo internship details of that you find on the inside of the punch newspaper. All right so we're going to move on from there to the next newspaper the Guardian newspaper. The Guardian newspaper leads with silence guns not trade their big story. Africa's entrapped trade corridors was an AFC FDA implementation you find that details of that on pages four and five of the Guardian newspaper. They always do this they have their big story and then they give us very very beautiful pictures with summaries you have each country's top exports in Africa highlighted here if you get a copy of this paper you see all of that and the list of gender led states Burkina, Faso, Chad, Guinea, Mali, Niger Gabon and Sudan then you have they are saying here that Africa traded less with itself than other world regions in 2022 that is definitely not a good record. Inter trade has been a major issue on the continent. I wonder why it continues even to 2023 Tito Johnson, what say you over this? We have argued and some have argued even before us the leading light, the leading scholars in Africa have argued that for Africa to truly have economic emancipation and Africa to be truly independent there must be collaborations and not competitions among African countries, there must be an economic integration for you to get to some countries in Africa you might need to travel to Europe and then join a connecting flight to connect with Africa the way it's been structured and the way the colonial is structured in it if the colonial is structured more than 60 years ago 62 years ago 65 years ago, what has African countries done with respect to bringing about economic integration? That is a billion dollar question, what has AU done what has Echo has done to fix this? We've been talking about this over and over again and it's also disheartening to see that this has persisted. And then you see African countries going to Russia for Russian summit going to Washington for U.S. African summit. Africans are treated, a continent is treated as non-nation, that's the way they treat us when people want to refer to us, they refer to us as Africans, they're not Nigerians when it comes to and it's important for Africans to wake up because more than to talk, in fact to record out the natural resources in the world comes from Africa and there's a need for that integration to take place, it's important. If that's no, that economic integration look, if for example, if you want to go for vacation, where would it be best for you to go for vacation? To go to the cold regions of western Europe or America or to go to the beautiful safaris in Uganda in Kenya, in Tanzania and then to enjoy the warmth and the beauty of the coastline of South Africa or West Africa. So as far as I'm concerned, there's a need for African leaders to really look in in world. The security begins at home, development does not to cool down from the top, development starts from from the bottom, you build it up from bottom up so for African and African countries to really develop there's a need for us to build infrastructure that leads African countries together. I see no reason why there shouldn't be any road network linking Nigeria to West Africa and linking Nigeria to Central Africa through Cameroon and linking other Africans we connected together with one with one another. So we always have these challenges until we have visionary leaders and leaders that have come up with that idea you know what happened to them Mama Gaddafi you know what happened to Kuala Lumpur you know what happened to Mama Gaddafi you know what happened to Partis Lumumba you know what happened to Partis Lumumba all this, all this visionary all this visionary leader even if you listen to speeches given by Kafa Baliwa you will date you will be feeling goosebumps in your body with the eloquence with the policy trust of I recall one that went to United Nations and said Nigerian we stand on its own we don't rely on the colonial masters and we decide wherever we want to relate with as a country and then you look at the crop of leaders we have in the 60s in Africa in terms of their intelligence in terms of their exposure in terms of their education in terms of their nationalism and you look at the crops of leaders we have now you would know that in terms of quality in terms of intelligence in terms of character in terms of competence and in terms of certificate you just had to drum that alright Junior Johnson time will not permit us to continue without the press but you've said you've said beautifully spoken beautifully well today as always thank you so much for your time thank you very much Maureen have a wonderful weekend and seem to have you as all over the world thank you Junior Johnson Chief Lecturer and Nigerian Institute of Journalism has joined us in Lagos and of the press we'll be back in a moment with a very very first hot topic the Naira the major issues how did we get here from grace or from grass to grace let's talk about that on our very first hot topic