 Welcome to this open session here at Davos. My name is Dan Shapiro. I am the founder and director of the Harvard International Negotiation Program. The focus of our work is on how you deal with the emotional and the identity-based dimensions of conflict and negotiation. And it is an honor to be here today with all of you, with our panelists as well. The topic of our session today is on multiculturalism. And the idea is that it's more than just this abstract concept that's out there, but it's really about you and me and all of us and how we can interact most effectively together. And over the course of the past few days here at Davos, the conversations within the World Economic Forum discussions, there's been a strong undercurrent of conversation around how you deal with these issues of multiculturalism. Now, on the one hand, our world is more interconnected than ever with technology, globalization, economically, and so on. And yet at the same time, we're seeing increased fragmentation within societies, increased tensions at the international levels. What's going on? And what can be done about it? That's what our subject will actually be today. So before we hear from our distinguished panel and before I even introduce this panel, we have a wonderful opportunity today to hear from a global leader who I admire deeply. I also consider him a friend. So someone who, from personal experience, I recognize as someone who is just passionate about the world, and I think the world recognizes that as well, please join me in welcoming his royal highness, Hakan, the crown prince of Norway. Thank you, Dan. That was very nice. I enjoyed that. Dan's great, by the way. You should ask him after when there's a Q&A. You should ask him about negotiation techniques. He's like incredible in negotiations. OK, I'm in a school, kind of like this. It's great to be back, by the way. I was here a few years back doing a session. I was at a school, and we were hearing from kids. 16-year-olds, 15-year-olds. I do that quite a lot. I go to schools and I listen to the insights of young people, and it's amazing what they have to offer, and we have so much to learn, so it's always energizing for me. OK, so these kids are lining up one after the other to tell their stories, and this girl comes up to the mic, and she's wearing her job, and she says, I have a friend in another school, and there was a boy there, a Jewish boy that was bullied, and it was bad. It was really bad. And then the Gaza conflict started, and it got worse. And she said that her friend decided to start going or being together with this boy during recess, during the breaks, but also on the way to and back from school, and that really improved the situation. Now, of course, her friend got a lot of heat for it from her parents, but it really improved the situation. And they don't know me that this girl had actually unraveled, figured out, a way of solving a really complex problem that we in the grown-up world are not really able to do. Now, so in this example, multiculturalism is both successful and failing, and I'm just wondering if you want. I had to look that word up, I didn't know what it meant. So we've got to be able to deal with a reality where multiculturalism, in parallel, at the same time is successful, and at times is failing. Now, let me just tell you about, point out a few things. Through evolution, we have learned how to tackle close relations, right? Family, friends, the people around us are tribe, right? Through evolution, that has been what we have needed to survive, to prosper, to be successful. So we're good at these close relations of being responsible in these close relations. But, you know, if you go into the Congress Center here, or in Davos, in one day, we meet more people than some of our predecessors far back met in an entire lifetime, right? Now the question is, how will we be able to adapt to a world that is much more complex? We all have virtual relationships with millions of people. Will we be able to be responsible to such a large group? Are we able to react to the complex reality that we are exposed to in a constructive manner that will lead to a better world? In short, will we be able to be responsible global citizens? Now, it's important to remember that we have so much more in common as human beings than what separates us. We have so much more in common. A couple of years back, I attended a lecture by MIT professor Eric Lander. He is one of the leading experts on the human genome. He told us some astonishing and quite eye-opening facts. Only 1,000 of our human genome separates us. Genetically, we are 99.9% the same. At some point, the human species counted around 10,000 individuals. 10,000 individuals worldwide, that's it. So we're all their descendants. We have much, much, much more in common than what separates us. The human genome consists of around 3 billion building blocks, 3 billion. Up to now, researchers have found four that determine skin color. Professor Lander estimates that there are between 10 and 12 in all. 10 or 12 out of 3 billion. That's nothing. I wanted to also just mention that there's a lot of work being done on multiple identities. These are ideas by Amartya Sen and Kwama Anthony Apaya, the economist and philosopher, and many others. So multiple identities means that we, like, take me, for instance, right? I'm a man. I have children. I like hip-hop. I have a beard. That, too. I'm Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, British, German. Now, so the idea is we have all of these multiple identities. And it's possible for you to strengthen several of these identities at the same time. It's not like if you're strengthening one, like if I'm becoming more Swedish, I'm also, then I'm becoming less Norwegian. It's not like that. I can become more Swedish and more Norwegian at the same time, right? So that's multiple identities. So I would slightly advise against the idea of a melting pot. I would say what we would probably be better off thinking about is how we live or how we act so that we show mutual respect and peaceful coexistence, or maybe even compassionate coexistence. Forgive me, I just came from a session on the art and science of happiness. So I'm a little bit sort of on that track. Okay, a pious says, he's a philosopher. It is crucial to remember always that we are not simply black or white or yellow or brown. Gay or straight or bisexual, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Confucian. But we are also brothers and sisters, parents and children, liberals, conservatives and leftists, teachers and lawyers and automakers and gardeners, fans of the Padres and the Bruins, amateurs of Grand Rock and lovers of Wagner, movie buffs, MTV holics, mystery readers, surfers and singers, poets and pet lovers, students and teachers, friends and lovers. Archbishop Tutu, the Archbishop Emeritus, Desmond Tutu says, God is really actually just trying to teach us one lesson. I think he said that here when he was doing his session here, that we are all part of the same family. That's the lesson he's trying to teach us. Now if you really understood this lesson, there would not be war, he says. There would not be starvation, because we would not drop bombs on our sister and we would not let our brother starve. We can bring the world forward. Thank you for your attention. Thank you, Hawken. And I hope I proved myself right about Hawken. So I'd now like to introduce the distinguished panel joining us today, who will provide a variety of different perspectives on this question of multiculturalism and with very fascinating, incredible backgrounds and experience. And let me introduce them, not in sequence here, but in alphabetical order actually, with Caesar Conde, who was president of Univision Networks in the United States. Rosie Dasker, who's an author in the United Kingdom and is writing a book, a book's just about to come out on issues of multiculturalism. Phillip Jennings, who's General Secretary of Uniglobal Union. And then we have Tumi Makabo, founder and executive director of Africa Worldwide Media and also a young global leader with the World Economic Forum. We have Demet Mutlu, who's founder and chief executive officer of Trendyall.com in Turkey and also a global shaper with the World Economic Forum. We have Lucas Reiman, member of the National Council on the Swiss People's Party. And finally, we have Mel Young, president of the Homeless World Cup, which is based in the United Kingdom. So let's start, Caesar, your perspectives. So what's impeding multiculturalism from really taking hold? If one would agree with what the forum is suggesting that multiculturalism is floundering, it's in trouble in some sort of way. What's the problem and what can be done about it from your perspective? Sure. Thank you, Dan, and thank you for the invitation. I would begin by saying that I think any discussion of multiculturalism depends on how one defines multiculturalism. And I think if one defines it, as I do, a society where empowered individuals choose to adopt part of the culture of the host society, but at the same time, proactively choose to retain part of their ethnicity, their culture, and the like, while at the same time living within a similar value system, in our case in the United States, democracy, freedom, and such, I would argue that the United States is seeing a society where multiculturalism is very successful and is part of our DNA. I would give you one, I think, wonderful case study, a case example, the Hispanic or Latin American immigrant community in the United States. Today is the largest minority group in the United States. It's over 50 million individuals. We are one in six of the entire U.S. population. And I think that this case study is interesting because there's three reasons why it's been successful. I think one is because of its size. You know, it's one in six of all of America. Second is because of its growth rate. Even though it's coming off a big base, it's growing exponentially both from immigration as well as from birth rate. And I think the third reason, it's the impact that it has had on this society. It's had both social, cultural, economic, and certainly political implications. One quick anecdote, I think most people in the United States would argue that the Hispanic or the Latino vote is going to be the driving or the swing vote as to who comes out in the U.S. presidency in November of 2012. So I think a very good example of where multiculturalism has worked and is at the core of our American society. Great. And I think we want to dig further in a little bit to try and understand is that a model that can be replicated in other places? What are the downfalls, the strengths of that kind of model? Right now the goal is just to get a short snapshot from each of our panelists here. And let's move on now to Rosie, please. New York for the last six years. I'm the author of a book called A Small Fortune. Dan described it as about multicultural issues. I'd like to say it's not exactly, but it's a novel and it's a story and it's about the British Pakistani community. I was born in Britain to a Pakistani father and a British mother. And that really inspires the story, so it's a personal story. But I guess I've been invited as an example of someone from a multicultural background. I really don't like the term multicultural. I feel it's freighted with all sorts of liberal baggage and right-wing baggage. So I think it would be nice if we could discuss what we mean by that, what we mean by multiculturalism. But that aside, I've been living in New York for the last six years, which is of course a perfect example of a very successful multicultural place. And I don't believe multiculturalism is in trouble. I don't believe it's a problem and I'm interested to hear what the audience think. Great. Thank you. And Phillip. I'm here. Yes. There you go. You moved on me. I'm still here. Please. Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. As we like to say in Nihon, My name is Phillip Jennings. I'm a union leader. As an organisation, we see a world of diversity. We see a diverse world which is the norm. Switzerland is a diverse country. I will never forget the time I went with my football team in Nihon and we spent a weekend in Murtatal. And it was on that occasion I began to discover this whole sense of Rostigraben, which I still struggle with, but it's a sign of diversity, multiculturalism, multi-lingualism. And even if we couldn't speak together, we yodeled famously together. In my job, my organisation stands against discrimination and we defend diversity. We are open to all cultures, religions, people of gender, sexual orientation. At the same time, we fight intolerance in the workplace. I want a workplace free from fear. And this whole question seems to go in ebbs and flow. Sometimes when political parties don't have a coherent economic project, they begin to move into other areas. We are living through a very special period in our economic history. 225 million people unemployed. One in two on a vulnerable contract. 80 million young people unemployed. Inequality which we've not seen since the 1920s. We're living the great Gatsby time again. This feeds into the conversation of hate, of scapegoating, that it's someone's else's fault. And that feeds into a political discourse which means these questions of diversity and tolerance become threatened. My message to everybody here is that the way this world has been run is not leading to cohesive societies. That it's not enough to take care of that one percent, but that 99 percent needs to have moments of hope, decent work, a decent school and decent education and a home. And that's not happening. I will fight that in my organization wherever it shows its face. I live in a diverse country. I'm proud of the traditions of this country. And I think many of the things which happen in this country and I hope to talk about in the local communes is a sign of strength. Thank you. Thank you. To me. Thank you very much, Jan. I have to say, it sounds fascinating. So you and I need to talk a little bit about your experience and the, what did you call it? Rusty Graben. Rusty Graben. Yeah. Well, you see. Later, later. I think one of the challenges for me, I'm a South African. And I'm sure many of you are familiar with our history. And I'm very, very wary of labelling. I think Rusty is quite right that, you know, the label is where things tend to come undone. In my view, here's the reality. The reality is that we no longer live in an environment where we're all isolated in little pockets around the world and have very rare occasion to exchange or meet each other. The truth of the matter is that people talk to each other on a continual basis. Particularly, thank you very much to mobile telephony and technology. So they're all talking to each other. They're all trading with each other. They're all traveling across borders. And this is the reality. It's not a question of whether this is going to happen. This is the world in which we live. So for me, the question is very, very simple. It's not about whether we're sure or whether it's working or not. It's, well, this is where we're at. How do we ensure that, as the Crown Prince indicated earlier, that we live in a society and in a community or in an environment or country in which people's views are respected, in which people's views are tolerated, and in which we can coexist? Nobody's saying you have to suddenly meld yourself and become one big blob and all look the same, sound the same. Certainly not. The reality is that what makes us exciting, what makes us unique, what makes us interesting is that we're different. Can you imagine if we all sat here and looked exactly the same, thought the same, sounded the same? There wouldn't be much point, would there? Anyway, I look forward to experience. I look forward to hearing a little bit more about this because I think it's a fundamental shift in the way we approach the subject that I think is where a lot of this comes undone down. Thank you. Please. As a Turkish Muslim female, I lived in Europe, in Asia, in the United States and it's been a different experience in the countries I've lived in, studied in and worked in. What I found is that I also don't like the word multiculturalism and I don't think it's thinking about the multiculturalism but it's about everyone just understanding each other and having the open dialogue and what I found and what the truth is is with the technology, everyone is connected. You can connect with anyone all around the world and this is just going to increase more and more. Before when we thought about technology we thought that it would be like a sci-fi and everyone would be in their rooms alone and you would just connect with the world and your room and just study by yourself but it's actually been the opposite. It's been connecting people all around the world and so with this and with the way that the world is evolving we all have to cope with this that everyone is the same 99.1% of us as the Prince had mentioned. We're just about the same people and so the government, societies and companies and individuals that embrace this those are the only ones that are going to be successful and so even now in business when we see the successful companies it's successful companies that have embraced multiculturalism leaders within these firms whether you're an entrepreneur whether you're a business leader whether you're within a corporate those are successful that have embraced this and so with the diversity and understanding consumers in the world the only way it is is really to embrace it and so if you want to survive as a government a person, a society, as a company you really have to embrace all of this. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much as well. Thank you very much for the kind invitation that I shall be speaking in German on multiculturalism Well what I can say is that on the one hand it's been said it depends on the definition Switzerland is a wonderful multicultural country four different languages, four different cultures it works, people live together we have a very large share of foreigners one of the largest in the whole world and it works but my criticism starts and what has happened over the past few years there's been indifference of politicians and politics vis-a-vis of immigration politicians said well our doors are open we are multicultural we are open for each and everybody and we are an open and tolerant society and there are a number of values our democratic society has existed for a long time and all of a sudden we are faced with immigration with people coming into our country that do not appreciate our society do not appreciate our values then this becomes dangerous for our liberal democratic and open society having said this I am convinced that politicians have to act against this in order to defend our multiculturalism making sure that those who want a parallel society they should not be admitted to this country thank you and we will move on then and we will move on then to our final panelist Mel, please good afternoon thank you Dan, it's nice to be here nice to meet you, nice to be in Switzerland I'd just like to start my short contribution by asking you a question anybody in the room think homelessness is a good idea? okay, nobody so I've been working with homeless people since 1993 and I've asked this question to many audiences rich and poor, young and old all over the world and never once in all that time since 1993 anybody thought it was a good idea and yet there are 100 millions people homeless throughout the world and yet we still have it and I will maintain you can't have a sustainable society or multiculturalism indeed when you've got that level of homelessness because what happens is these people are excluded from society I sometimes describe and write about this as the invisible people, they become invisible research has been done on this in terms of people walking along the road going to work every morning and a month later asked what they saw in the street and around 90% of the people never saw the homeless person sitting in the street despite walking past them all the time and they become invisible when I was in San Francisco recently and in the US you have 3.5 million people on the streets by the way and that's the richest country in the world it was amazing the number of people who were sleeping in the streets in San Francisco I spoke to my friends who were good, nice people middle class, I said terrible the homeless people in the centre of your city and they said, homeless people are they there, oh, yeah they're kind of cool and I went, it's not kind of cool it's not an expression that can possibly be applied because they shouldn't be there at all but the problem is they've been there so long they become part of the landscape and it becomes acceptable and to me it's just not acceptable and you can't ever call yourself a society it's inclusive when you have that and it's dangerous as well because what happens inevitably with that level of exclusion and people not being able to participate is you'll have explosions of violence or people will get sick and then you will get sick so it's in nobody's interest at all to have homelessness and maybe later in the session we'll talk about how we can deal with this I mean I run an organisation called the Homeless World Cup and what we simply do, we work in 80 countries is we make the homeless people visible so we put them in football tops they represent the country some of you may know about it Switzerland participates and as a result a lot of them change their lives forever so there's lots of interventions that are really simple that we can make if we want to create our society better but first of all we have to see people in the first place and then do something about it thank you thank you and thank you to all of you we've heard a lot so far first of all, one big point I heard was multiculturalism, de facto, it is here so our world has changed it's not a question of whether we're going to be living in a multicultural world or not it's here it's in front of us right now second big point I heard was maybe multiculturalism what does this word actually mean? what do we want it to mean? pragmatically what's useful in the world right now and I'd like to open it up to all of you and then ultimately to hear from all of you in our audience questions that you might have as well but first what is your thinking very concretely, very practically how might our world improve its way of dealing more effectively with differences of culture differences of identity what can be done you've offered some examples but what's your thinking very concretely for Switzerland for really the world please great thank you just to get the ball rolling coming out of the apartheid era in South Africa we instituted a program called the Truth and Reconciliation Commission I'm sure some of you may be aware of that process now there is a lot of criticism said about whether it worked or whether it didn't work or what was missing and so on but I think the issue here is the principle of the process in other words you open up a dialogue that doesn't point fingers and say you were bad naughty you go to jail you were nice and good you stay at home and you were not sure about so we'll keep you there for a minute it's not that kind of conversation what it certainly did for our country was that it forced us to have conversations it forced the people who were the persecutors in South Africa's instance to actually come clean without the fear that they were going to leave the building and somebody was going to attack them for what they had done anybody can say was an appalling and diabolical situation similarly those who were predominantly black or freedoms fighters also performed some horrendous acts of murder and so on and it allowed them the very same experience what was the net result we could recognize that these are our historical differences we had issues about this but now here's a point or a moment for us to move on and I'm always curious you know when I see people using the fact that we're different as a negative rather than saying what happens if we all sit here and have dinner together or have conversations together and begin to understand what the other person's perspective is it's not about assimilating it it's not about agreeing with it it's simply about saying who are you where do you come from what influences the way you view the world what influences the decisions that you make and in every time when I have had prejudices and actually sat down with people and had conversations like that with them the net result has been exactly again what the crown prince alluded to that we were more similar than we were different and I think that's what I find so remarkable because we keep learning this lesson and yet we don't learn the lesson and it's quite interesting if I may to my colleague on the panel here frankly I don't see how people stopping a person coming into a country stops them influencing you in any way whatsoever because technologically speaking as an African for years the only way we had information about the rest of the world was through television what has been the net result look across the African continent we wear Levi jeans we wear all-star shoes we listen to hip-hop we love ACON we think Norwegians are cool because they helped us during apartheid all of this happened not because the Norwegians came over the border and said we're going to hang out with you it was because we had access to information about them so the net result is that that's not what's going to stop people being influenced by external factors you may physically be able to prevent them doing so but you don't stop the influence and the problem is if you don't have that influence happening in a context where there is somebody who can help you understand it you cause conflict yeah, great you do understand yes, okay yes, please look well, I would agree the principle that conversation is necessary dialogue is necessary let me give you a specific example from Switzerland I think if someone wants to become a resident here then they need to be able to speak one of the official languages otherwise they shouldn't get a resident permit if they want to come and live in this country then it's very important for integration for that conversation for them to be capable of speaking a language the second point relates to specific individuals we have an increasing number of such individuals in Europe who do not facilitate such a conversation I'd be happy to sit down with you I was on end to talk about politics of a state of the world but if I was a preacher who would simply condemn me in my position then that wouldn't be such a pleasure for me if there are individuals whose society rejects but who still want to live here then you don't have that kind of conversation great so in a way what I'm hearing in part is how does one preserve a certain identity a certain culture and yet allow for the integration of other cultures other groups and it seems like an essential tension around this question of multiculturalism I saw your first I wanted to engage with Lukas his initial points about I feel like he describes Switzerland in many other countries in the world and I'm interested in discussing the notion of fear the tipping point at which tolerance and toleration of the other of other cultures who bring as my colleague mentioned amazing opportunities to the country in which they take up residence they build business etc etc the point at which maybe Lukas can talk about that that's toleration and embracing of the other becomes too much and I think that's the point at which that's sort of the critical point and maybe we can discuss that tipping point because there's a lot of rhetoric about the flood of let's talk about Muslims the fear of Arabia taking over Europe I think that's a very big and worrying conversation that spreads hatred and unfounded fear I think and I wondered if people would like to talk about that a little the tipping point really let's get to it in a couple of minutes you had a thought as well just a couple of things first of all for us it's very important that we have a workplace which is free of discrimination and I also think in this whole discussion there is a danger if you're from a political party you come to be seen as what it is you're trying to prevent so it becomes somewhat schizophrenic that you're tolerant on one hand but you're intolerant on another and there's a danger of you becoming the very thing that you're trying to prevent which means you become less tolerant my experience in Switzerland when I arrived I got a letter from the Sondik he invited me and other people who have moved into this wonderful village called Chesere in Nio we had dinner together he made a speech we were introduced to all the societies and we were made very welcome we are a commune we're happy that our commune is rich in all its differences we're delighted that you are here join something so I joined the football team and then because I played football I was asked to join the fire brigade I became a pompier now Lucas I can tell you I was called out on action they put this metal Swiss army helmet on my head I had Wellington boots which didn't fit and they said Philip there's a fire I had not had I had no training I could hardly speak French but I tried though Lucas I tried that's when I realised I got to learn French if the political party says it I need it to save my life so all of a sudden I've got the fire holes in my hand and the advice I got was Philip you're too tall for this fire kneel down so then I had to kneel down and then I turned the holes on to the barn which was on fire and I can tell you one thing I don't know if he was a Swiss German a Swiss Italian a French a German Italian farmer a muslin farmer I had to save his barn and that's the message I say to you it's a humanitarian gesture from one to another when someone needs help you help when you need to put that fire out you put that fire out don't fan the flames of division we don't have enough firemen in the world I'm going to work it for a minute though to the full panel to some extent I could see someone saying my values will become corroded to some degree there will be an impurity to the tradition to the ritual to the values that I've been raised on that my people around me have been raised upon over time by bringing people of a different tradition into my culture yes I might be able to have the conversation with them but it's stuck because there's going to be conflict our values are so different that it will start to erode our own value system playing devil's advocate how do you respond to that kind of of response that kind of opinion perspective I'd give a couple of thoughts one is I think one of the prerequisites to have a society that gets along with so many different cultures is that I think it's a great contribution that everyone has contributed to the success of that country one interesting example that comes to mind for us in the United States is in the early 60's there was a big movement to make sure that the books that children were learning in high schools represented the contributions of so many people in our history and I think there was a belief that not everyone that had made positive contributions but if we look at how the history that our students learn there is certainly a fair representation of what all of the initial immigrants to the United States the Irish, the Italians, the Germans and the like made but today you're also reading about the contributions that African Americans and Hispanics and Asian Americans and Muslims and the like are making and so I think that combined recognition that everyone's making you know I do think that there is there has to be an open-mindedness in the country and the society that one's own culture may also blend in or be impacted by the one's neighbors and I'll give you one just one simple example in the United States it's a culinary example sometimes I don't know if people realize this but you know we've had such a blend of different cultures and again in this particular case this one comes this influence comes from the Hispanic culture today in the United States there is more salsa than ketchup purchased in the United States there are more tortillas consumed every day than bagels and you know I think when you stop and think about that you realize that that doesn't happen just because of one community it happens because everyone is beginning to to gravitate everyone's beginning to accept some of the other cultures and that's permeating mainstream yeah and thank you I mean really I'm hoping that we can keep digging deeper and deeper because it's one thing to say boy it's nice for everybody to love each other to be nice but we know the realities in the workplace and even in the family situations how do you actually get to that place where people of different cultures can live and work and breathe effectively together to me I saw your hand and then we moved yeah you know I find it interesting this notion that we're all born with culture you know the last time I checked there was no baby that was born with fur on it fur coat or loincloth or a beading in the hair I mean I don't know maybe I haven't seen it but I haven't heard of it right so the way I understand culture it is man made it is created by us what second point it evolves the way even in Switzerland the way in which you practice what you refer to as your culture today is very different to how people would have identified culture what 500, 600, 700 years ago it's the same thing in Africa it's the same thing in many many parts of the world so the notion that a culture is something that you bake and it stays like that is a very again it's a puzzling notion to me because the very nature of culture is that it evolves that's the first point that I wanted to make the second point when you're asking about how you know how do we balance the notion of wanting to preserve your own culture which of course people want to do in South Africa we have the same debate where many people are complaining and saying well you know our languages aren't being recognized and so on and yet when you ask some of these people what is it that you're doing in an attempt to preserve your culture in a way that is inclusive and fostering understanding rather than in a more sort of abrasive or aggressive fashion the reality is we find that many of those and I'm not saying it's the same for all enough isn't being done in terms of helping us understand what your culture is so prepare the food that you prepare make sure that you're singing the songs that you were raised with make sure that you are working to create an environment where your children can have a similar upbringing to the one that you had and longed for and I think that's one step it's not all it's not the thing that's going to solve it but I think that's one way in which we can actively promote people's cultures and similarly understanding of other people's cultures which is equally important thank you as a person of Turkish origin whenever I go to Europe and I say I'm from Turkey the first thing that one of the first things that I hear especially from certain certain societies would be oh there's so many there's so many Turks living in Germany and it's not in a positive way it's in a negative way and the way that we are facing so I really love the example of how the U.S. has had a great melting pot and it's fantastic in Hispanics but I think as part of this panel we should discuss as you mentioned what the multi-cultures and other countries where it hasn't been as successful and who and what can we do in order to make it more of a success and so what I find is that when I do talk to people living in Germany they're a Turkish origin they feel they don't have the equal opportunities and so I think it's really about ensuring that they can also get into the culture and assimilate within the culture with the equal opportunities and that's really with the education and that's really teaching them how to fish and so it's not placing the fish in front of them with welfare but it's more ensuring that they have the great educational opportunities so they can develop themselves and give back to the culture rather than just giving them the worst places to live and maybe the lowest paying jobs it's how do we give them more of the opportunity and more of the education in order to contribute more and so what we see is the second generation of these immigrants with the education they're having they're actually contributing back to society and there's some great examples and great leaders from these immigrant families from all of these countries and I think that's going to be really important. So you're raising an issue that was raised earlier as well but I think more explicitly now to doing multiculturalism one is the personal side of it the other is the structural side of it and a few others talked about that on our panel so far in the organizational context in the societal context as well. Mel? Yeah I just want to make a couple of points here I think one of the solutions around is about economic migration so it's the issue is eliminate poverty and then people stop moving because people are moving in very dangerous circumstances and ways to get to rich countries apparently to be happier but of course they end up being homeless or abused or people trafficked or whatever and so the solution for that is in those countries and areas where there's poverty eliminate the poverty and then you eliminate the need for people to move in that kind of dangerous way that's one point. The second point is about happiness I've done a number of talks to people and it's incredible to me that how often they talk about how unhappy they are so they have money but they're unhappy and I kind of show them the homeless people and I say they're unhappy as well so how can you how can we try and pull these things together in a society and you know like at our homeless world cup we have volunteers and volunteers afterwards right to us and say it was the best experience in my life I'm so happy about it because it's the way they are so if you're trying to create an inclusive society or multicultural society it's about removing these barriers of fear people are frightened of the homeless person I have no idea why but they are or they've made them invisible but by bringing people in you make yourself happier you make yourself much much better and for those that I think these type of solutions if you're planning a world with time ticking we know we have a lot of knowledge and experience in this room as well I'd like to open it up now for questions that you might have and for sake of time what I ask is that the way you frame a question is in the form of a question and that you limit your question to no more than one minute otherwise I apologize but I might have an undiplomatic interruption and I see your hand back there please if you could introduce yourself as well hello my name is Graeme Durgan I'm English actually sorry welcome thank you my question is you spoke about organization and I just had a very simple question is democracy necessary for multiculturalism and you know let's take one more thank you for that and you answered it in perfect form or ask it in perfect form maybe one more question two questions and we'll throw them to the panel yes and I see over here in the fourth row there's a microphone coming around would you mind standing up just so they could see where the microphone is yes and you found yourself in the perfect spot to make it most difficult to get the microphone to you yes and if you could introduce your name and your question my name is Elaine Stadler and I study at the University of St Andrews I have to apologize because my question won't be in the perfect form it's okay this summer I had a very troubling experience when I was in Washington at a Oxbridge Learning Academy and we had a major falling out which was between my flatmate who was a Turkish Muslim and my co-student in St Andrews who was from India initially and she was extremely upset because he turned out to be gay and she said that that offended her religious beliefs and that offended her as a person and we had no idea how to confront that situation how to talk about it how we felt about it so I was wondering how your thoughts were on that situation great thank you so two questions and I see these really hitting one at the personal level one at the structural level let's start with the structural level and then we'll move to the more personal piece democracy is it a necessary prerequisite for a multicultural society yes no maybe what are your thoughts yes yes think of the think of the Eastern block pre-1989 those non-democratic societies were also very homogenous there was a lot of racism a lot of anti-semitism in many Eastern European countries since they've opened up since they've become democratic I think that has changed a little bit I gather that there's a rising amount of anti-semitism in Hungary but I think that's a sort of an example a recent example from history and yes I have to say that I don't know not because I'm a non-supporter of democracy if anything I'm very very supportive of democracy but I look across the African continent and I look at examples of countries where there is democracy they have elections people go to the ballots they get the blue ink on the thumb you know everybody's voting they elect however they're incredibly intolerant so I'm not sure that automatically by default the fact that you have a so-called democratic dispensation will foster tolerance so I don't know that it's as easy as saying yes or saying no in my view I think the jury in many ways is still out which then I suppose begs the question whether the assumption that a cultural environment or a culturally healthy environment can only function in the context of a political system for me democracy for multiculturalism is an absolute and I think it's about what are the constituents of it freedom of expression freedom of association the freedom to express oneself the freedom to organize and the freedom to enjoys the democratic freedoms that you have and I'm pleased to say that in the course of the last three decades this world has become a more democratic place and you know when I started this job Latin America with military dictatorships I used to go into those places South Africa we used to go into South Africa and I think as a white face I used to get through immigration without any difficulties if they'd known that I was talking to the trade union movement and others then the door would have been shut democracy is necessary in all its diversity I would just have this hope maybe I'm naive that the principal political actors would do more to bring their societies together as opposed to scoring political points by driving them apart to ensure political power to be straight on its economic plans and say this is my plan for the country as opposed to try to find those populist divisions which so divide us so I would call for responsibility and restraint and democracy is about openness I don't know it hasn't been mentioned here we live in this globalized age there are nearly 265 million migrant workers and this is going to double in the course of the next two decades more than we're going to have 5% of the world's workforce who are migrant workers there's constant traffic and at the same time in Europe we have a demographic challenge where the level of prosperity that we've grown used to and developed and the welfare that we have which is currently questioned we will not maintain this as our population actually does begin to shrink so from the economics of the situation we need to have this fluidity in our labor markets but we also need fair play at the same time and there's one thing that bothers me of that 260 million or so we have 27 million people humanly trafficked this is the new slave labor and I think there political parties of all complexions civil society and others really have to stamp out this underside of the globalized economy of 27 million human being humanly trafficked and a third of those are under the age of 12 so back to the basic question democracy a prerequisite yes maybe Mel what? my answer is yes but and the but being I really concerned about democracy in this modern age I think it's out of got out of touch it's more relevant I believe for the 1950s it's got stuck there and with the speed of things like the internet and technological advance the politicians I believe aren't becoming fit in terms of their representation talent isn't going towards the political we've got crisis of leadership I believe I don't think you can say you're a proper democracy when you've got the level of homelessness I will go on about that issue or when you have poverty I don't think you can call yourself a democracy so there's a number of challenges so I think the other thing that's happening is that the political parties for them homelessness doesn't become a mainstream issue because it's just the middle that they're interested in getting into power so it's just they're focusing on a particular group of people in the middle and their interests are at the top of the agenda so I believe we've got a problem with democracy and it really has to be modernized and we have to look at it urgently I'm convinced that it can only work with democracy there's no other way there has to be democracy also multicultural society can only work with democracy well what alternative would there be how could democracy be modernized the nice thing about democracy is that every minority every small group can have a say and we've solved that well in Switzerland there's protection for minorities the cantons also have a say we have a majority of the cantons that has a impact in referendum everyone can collect signatures to have a referendum that plays a very important role for everybody for a minority group that wants to achieve something for example more rights but also for the Swiss who said well we have to change something now the politicians have neglected us democracy makes for a balance and if the population feels this has gone too far something has to happen and the population can react with those democratic tools and then there will be a better solution rather than just deciding in an undemocratic way I think democracy is an important element definitely and then you assuming democracy is perhaps necessary there's still the challenge that was raised by the student in the fourth row here how do you actually deal with these differences what happens when you have a student who's struggling with a fellow student who has a different value system and those value systems come into conflict to me this is really a huge part of the essence of the challenge as much as South Africa has had this major transformation there's still struggle there there's still struggle in Northern Ireland there's still struggle in the United States really around the world how do we grapple with and really deal with these value based differences whatever to some degree I think even if it's a place that moves somewhat away from an explicit democracy some of the more traditional cultures in the Middle East the government's there there's some common problems I think we all face around dealing with these value based differences what's your advice what would be your thinking if that student approached you privately and said look I need some help I need some advice here you know my two I forget the exact details but something like my two roommates are in the midst of a conflict right now there's a value based difference one has strong religious values that say that sexual activity should only be in one direction and someone says no it should be in another direction what do you do how do you respond to that kind of situation well I think she the student was in a living in a country where homosexuality is legal and tolerated and I would say I'm afraid you're in this you're within a community in which it's it's it isn't acceptable and it is not illegal and you have to find a way of giving each other space etc etc now that's an easy answer and it goes back to the question of fear that we were talking about earlier and the signs and symbols of otherness the minarets the banning of more minarets being built in Switzerland and recently in New York we've spoken a lot about multiculturalism in America and I'd like to I'd like to mention a recent example which is the building of an Islamic cultural center in New York City it has created enormous divisions and there have been huge protests against it and we're talking about America as the you know the post to childhood multiculturalism even in a place like America even in a place like New York a country like America which constitutionally recognizes you know religious persons right to practice their religion in freedom even there you have huge problems it's about fear it's about ignorance and I you know and what I think it's really important is to have exposure at a very young age and so with the differences with the different cultures and that's why I'm really hopeful for the future because now as young people we do have that exposure and I think the ignorance and the fear that these people are just like us and so we're very similar so I think what's going to be really important is exposure having more contact points touch points and that's why I think the future will be better in that way and that's I think technology is going to be a major force behind that and one other thought if I may move away from my role for a moment as the moderator there's a simple little exercise that we sometimes do in negotiation trainings and we call it the role reversal exercise simply having each person in the conflict for a minute move chairs and imagine they are that other person and someone just starts asking them questions what do things look like from your perspective and people are often very resistant to talking in that other perspective but to really have them talk in that first person from that other perspective they start to at least see that different world as uncomfortable as that world might be or different that world might be I know we have a number of hands up I want to make sure we have time to hear some voices and you know what is there anybody in the way back whose hand I can't see yes sir over there please where's the microphone the hands seem to be always completely opposite the microphones and again if you could state your name my name is Hans Peter Meyer I went to see school and now I'm a European businessman in several countries speaking several languages don't you think that interface is one of the big issues cultural interfaces I think one interface was mentioned it was football so if you can create like with computers interfaces between human beings and if you have a set of communication this really facilitates working together and living together thank you and maybe we could even take that one step further what have you found works in terms of interfacing bringing people together to help promote that sense of deeper understanding we have a lot of experience with that on our panel I would just throw out media and certainly social media and the new technology we're talking about but the ability to recognize that there are other people in your same situation and be able to find some camaraderie that I think is a big contributor and I think media in that sense plays a vital vital role be specific what would that look like well you know in our particular case I know that one of the challenges that we face in the United States right now is because of the macroeconomic situation and job lack of jobs and the like in certain parts of the country we have a debate going on in the United States about undocumented immigrants and there are approximately 12 million undocumented immigrants and I think that conversation has become much more heated over the last few years because there is a lack of opportunity and so having individuals who are caught in the middle of that discussion be able to have a platform to be able to talk to people in their similar situations I think creates an outlet to begin the communication yes please yeah I obviously would think a big yes to your point I mean what we do with the homeless world cup is we bring homeless people from this year was last year rather 64 countries and put them together and they can't necessarily speak the same language they've come from the same place in the world being homeless but the energy and the collective spirit between them all is just fantastic it's something to behold and that's about the whole spirit of humanity played out in front of your eyes and there you can build on something but let me just tell you a little story connected with that for 30 seconds just to illustrate how you can create real change in people's thinking and putting people together so a few years ago our event was held in Cape Town in South Africa and the team that was coming from Denmark told their manager that they were the poorest people in the world there was nobody poorer than them living in Denmark and the manager said I don't know if that's true you know I think there might be people poorer than you and they said no no no we are the poorest and they felt really bad about it so they went down to South Africa to Cape Town and they went to some of the shanty towns within about five minutes they said okay we're not the poorest people actually and there's people much worse than we've decided and it changed them in terms of their attitude about themselves and to other people and they started giving things that they had to the other South Africans and the South African homeless people said wow we never knew white people could be homeless so their whole attitude changed and then they became great friends together and were able to build on that experience of of change and so if you can create a way in which you move people away from being invisible and you create a all we're doing is just creating a different infrastructure if you like and put people in it together you can create massive change so yes questions and let me ask worse the microphone and there's been someone eagerly with their hand raised right over there please yes Mr. Leblanc Heinecke from Germany living in Switzerland you mentioned before internet you're understanding a lot more about people in the other countries is that the solution my question is how much is done to understand the otherness in your own country how much is done in the education in training in school etc to learn about let's say I'm German about the Turks in that there's nothing there's no training no no role-play it's nothing to make this community and understand them at home and because it's nice to see them all oh well I'm Turkey then you adjust to the values but that's far away it's something different if you have to share something in your own vicinity and I feel that education has lost a little bit with the challenges so thank you that's what I was saying about the exposure at young age so whether it's in school so I went to school in New York City and in New York City and in one of our schools what we'd have is we'd have our cultural days so everyone would come from a different culture and they would bring things about their food about their country and just talk about it and I think it was really fortunate at four or five years old I had this exposure and I think this has to happen in schools around the world and we need to expose children at a very young age what other cultures are about and what other people are about whether it's talking about these cultures whether it's videos, whether it's media like everyone mentioned I think it's really really important I just don't think that the education systems are paying enough attention to this you know I find it interesting because in South Africa we have significant challenges in terms of education and the question that everybody's asking at the moment is whether or not our education system prepares people for living in the future now what I find intriguing about this notion is that it's always done in an economic business context in other words we need more engineers because we're going to need more roads so maths and science but what we forget is that we're also going to be living next to Turks and Germans and Swiss and Norwegians and Swedes and all of this kind of thing and in fact there are many many South Africans who are getting the skills and what's happening they're getting poached so they live in London there's a huge community of South Africans in London, New York in Atlanta there's a black African guy who's a mayor of a city in Russia so it's happening right now and I think that the point about education is so so so important that it's not just about whether you can read and write and do mathematics it's also about the environment in which you're going to live not just the environment in which you are expected to produce an end product yeah no your comments remind me of a conversation I had last year with a top level negotiator from China and I was very excited to meet this person to learn what's your techniques how are you so good at negotiating and he gave me the example of a recent negotiation he had with the United States representatives about a week our negotiating team thinking about culture before we went to negotiate with the Americans I said wow you spent a whole week thinking about American culture he said oh no no no we spent a week thinking about our own culture and I think he was dead right dead right that's the power of education Lucas I couldn't agree more education is an important topic and you can reach a great deal of progress through education but if you look at the Swiss educational system then we do too much in this direction and we tend to forget our own identity and our own culture let me give you a few examples and please let me speak there are a number of schools that do not have any Christmas celebrations anymore in their schools that teach children the Serbian or Croat language first before they learn German and they think all there was a inquiry and in other cities what is the most frequent reason why young families move away from cities and about 39% of those families said we move away because there are too many foreign kids at school we don't want to send our kids to those schools in a class with five foreigners it's okay there will be integration but if you have 17 to 20 or 18 foreigners out of 23 kids there's no way you can integrate anymore and comments to that and I want to note the important we're talking about culturalism we're speaking with in the framing that really trying to come from a place of understanding and listening and I encourage that for today as well could the microphone come toward the front and yes to the woman with the cap on please my name is Maria Nunes Krabber I came here to Switzerland with 11 years old and I was born in Brazil but my father is Swiss so you say Mr. Reimann that people are going away and saying oh we don't want to have anything to do with people that come from other cultures and I'm coming from integration class I learned five languages I did everything I could to be the best to have half as much chances as other people had because they were born in Switzerland they were full blood how this I even heard this kind of things how can somebody from a government from a party say that's something we want to support well that was not about you gentlemen what I said and the parents are saying we don't want our kids to mingle with foreign kids that's not the way it is I think the parents see it as enrichment to have foreign children around but there are studies there also studies by the OECD that state clearly that if you have a certain number of foreign children at school and those children may have difficulties with the language children that came later followed their fathers and mothers they are having difficulties in the city where I live the three schools and the school with the largest number of foreign children it's 80% those children leaving that school will not have success in the future they can't go to high school and my proposal as a politician is that we will create what we call integration classes so that first of all they go through this integration class they learn our language they are brought to the same level as the Swiss kids and then they will be integrated into the ordinary school this will be good for the foreign school foreign kids they will be promoted and it will also be good for the Swiss kids because they won't be leveled down and the problem is when parents move away they will have neighbourhoods in cities with 90% share of foreigners and in other neighbourhoods it will be just 5% and that could be avoided with my initiative it's not really a response I just have a question because I'm trying to understand you say that in this study they showed that when there is a high percentage of foreign children in the school levels are dropping and standards are dropping and therefore the argument is made that these children should be put in a pen somewhere else until they come right and then bring them back so my question and I'm trying to understand is in the context of the environment in which they're already in does this study say anything about the difference if these children are given additional tutoring in the environment that they're already living without taking them away and putting them in a box but perhaps giving them an additional few hours in the afternoon does that make any difference at all? I'm not really familiar with the details of the OECD study could you please be objective to the audience but it's okay to have tutorial lessons in the afternoon I have nothing against that but it's a fact and it's been proven and teachers can confirm this then if you have a large share of foreigners with poorly integrated children the level will come down there will be a lot of time spent on language, on integration on getting them used to the climate and so on that is not necessary the question is how to deal with a variety of different students within the classroom context what makes the most sense and what's the research that helps to support things one way or another could we unpack a little bit about I mean being a foreigner in Switzerland versus being a foreigner in Britain versus the United States someone like that are foreigners in Switzerland do they feel stakeholder in Swiss society I understand it I'm not sure if this is correct I hope someone will correct me but foreigners aren't allowed to buy property in this country is that correct no that's not true I think that I am Swiss by the way I am Swiss I made the promise I am Swiss and I look at it from a labour market perspective we are entering a future where we're going to require more people from other countries to come to Europe to do work and there's I was I just asked someone whilst I was coming what's the situation you talked about whether you can buy a home I can tell you who builds the homes 65% of the people in the construction industry in this country are here on work permits and then I asked what about Swiss chocolate 65% of the workforce in the chocolate factories are migrant workers and therefore which means they're not permanent men in society they are there's intergenerational change this country works with migrant workers and I just wish this was and the migrant worker has made a brilliant contribution to the economic success of this country this should be seen as a good news story above and beyond the fact that we have the different cantons the different language groupings why can't you if I was presenting the Swiss brand to the world I would say this is a good place to do business we are harmonious we can integrate workers in the modern context this country will not work without migrant workers and I know from my wife's teacher I can tell you she's had 30 nationalities in her class and you would be amazed of the wonderful and brilliant things they do they learn more together they have a good conversation together Lucas they do enjoy each other's company and therefore and I realise that inner city ghettos have a problem in this regard they do, Switzerland is a small extremely wealthy country Britain is a very different kettle of fish we can't kind of lump all these countries together it's just silly and I'm sure your wife has had a wonderful experience teaching in Switzerland but Leeds is different and Bradford's different he's taught in East London I've lived in East London myself I know the story the big questions we're grappling with is really the question of who is the we and secondly how do you define who the we is and how you're supposed to treat the not we, the other and it seems like in essence this is the debate and tension that I think is emerging here time for another question if we could have the microphone towards the front please and if you could introduce yourself and the question I'm Christoph de Han I'm a supporter and beneficent of multiculturalism I'd like to ask the panel for advice about the borderline it's a touchy issue of where tolerance ends and I'm citing such issues like forced marriage female circumcision anti-democratic opinion where do we draw the line legitimately so it's a wonderful question so a key theme that's come up so far has been the importance of and I think everybody on the panel agrees with this and the questions from the audience as well the importance of understanding and you're pushing this one step further and you're saying yes there's understanding but that understanding at some point is going to have to move toward decision making within the governmental and informal realms as well where is the line and to be specific I like your notion of being specific around some of these issues such as forced marriage where's the line what's your thinking I think it's really straightforward it's the laws of the land in a democracy you vote for the politicians that make the laws of the land and I think there's issues like to take for forced marriage for an example if it's against the law of the land because that's the way the people then it's against the law of the land so it shouldn't be allowed the challenge with forced marriages though is that people will take the people out of the country and then come back into the country and so internationally and Phil talked about this issue earlier about human trafficking in these issues we have to be collaborating together as governments and as police forces to stop this type of trafficking and sort of thing occurring but at the end of the day you have to have democratic systems and laws that we all abide by and there's some things which we find in these laws which are just completely unacceptable and that should be the way the line is and just a quick snap South Rosie there's almost no circumcision those are almost easier examples what about Sarkozy banning the Borka the Vale where's the harm in wearing a Vale there's harm in forced marriage that's well documented there's medical harm in female circumcision what's the harm with the Vale but it pushes people's buttons it presses the limits of toleration I'm sorry there is as far as I'm concerned there is never a day that I'm ever going to agree we had the law in the land the law of the land in my country said that I couldn't go where I want I couldn't marry who I want I couldn't have children with whom I want I couldn't buy property in my own country I mean law of the land sorry if I can just finish my point and you'll be able to respond so as far as I'm concerned there is no environment that by simply saying law of the land it makes it okay what I think society needs to do and this is where we need to just take the blinkers off and have a reality check we live in a society where effectively there are no borders yes there are borders of course but we talk languages and we travel and we do all sorts of things the reality is that there is a recognition and there has to be a recognition about what is harmful to individuals we have such things as human rights charters why do we speak as if these things don't exist they exist can I just come back I said law of the land in a democracy and the point I made earlier South Africa was a democracy wait a minute let me just finish my point I let you finish your point my point was that I made earlier was that democracy currently had real problems because it wasn't actually representing what the people say so take your Sarkozy point that was never a decision that was made by the people there wasn't a democratic discussion he made that decision his political party made that decision that's the problem with democracy at the moment you're not getting into the proper debates so that people can like Phil in Switzerland put his point of view and win the debate and the argument and then laws of the land are formed around that and if you have a situation where you're going to say we're going to ignore the laws of the land or not have laws of the land you don't have a democracy so democracy's got a real trouble at the moment I believe because you're ending up being non-democratic so take homeless people again in this country and other countries they can't vote they're not allowed to vote that's not a democracy as far as I'm concerned we need to create a way in which people can be included in a process quickly that allows proper laws fair and just laws to run the country and I recognize there's a lot more conversation that could happen here and on multiple levels and I apologize we don't have more time for questions at this point but we started off with the basic notion of multiculturalism what does this actually mean maybe this isn't the right word it seems like a fluffy word I have a feeling if we had another 15 hours today we really would get somewhere but I want to close with just one final little anecdote that I'm reminded of from our conversation one of my mentors he's now I believe right around 90 years old Roger Fischer many years back was in the U.S. Army Air Corps one of those big B-17 bombers and the pilot of the plane they were breaking in a new engine on one of these planes and the pilot of the plane was known to be this extremely adventurous if not crazy individual and he decided it was a beautiful sunny day he decided just for a little fun he was going to turn off one of the engines on this big B-17 bomber flying over the cold north Atlantic waters nobody cared anything about this until he decided to turn off another engine and another and another true story until all four engines were off on this B-17 bomber everybody in the back of the plane was going what's going on what's going on out of this plane with our parachutes even if we jump out we're going to die in these cold Atlantic waters the coal pilot had seen everything that was going on and he had been as angry as can be at this whole situation the pilot decided it had had enough fun and he goes to turn back on the engines but for those of you who have ever seen a B-17 bomber and tried to operate it you cannot turn on any of the engines unless it's parked unless you get the electricity suddenly the pilot realizes this fact the coal pilot realizes this fact and the coal pilot all of a sudden just bursts out laughing saying boy oh boy have you got a problem you know and the reality is that plane was going down they all had a problem and I think that's the situation with multiculturalism it's not just a problem it is the answer as well how do we build upon the opportunity of people's different cultural backgrounds and just to end that story how did Roger live it so turns out that there was a young officer on board it was not his duty to do so but he recalled there was a little generator in the back they were able to start one engine and from there they were able to start all of the engines so on that note no just with the note ultimately of thinking through how do we work effectively together with a shared problem a shared opportunity in front of us please join me and a big thank you to all of our panelists including it's a happy as well thank you Dan thank you ladies and gentlemen three days ago I had the privilege to open the open forum Devos 2012 in German let me close in English as we are we went through the English discussions here you remember three points that I mentioned that are important for us at the World Economic Forum the one is integrating all the groups of interest the stakeholders and really to engage people of the government business people NGOs social entrepreneurs and I think right out of the way all the panels including this one for good examples for this my second point was let us have that we are all open for engaged honest fundamental discussions and have dialogue with the Davos people I'm happy to see so many in here to have the dialogue with the students that came here not only from Davos but from all over Switzerland Germany that join often every year expert and leaders that are at the annual meeting and join here and I see a lot of these patches you immediately know who is at the annual meeting but also whole groups like the like the Adenauer foundation who come every year to the open forum a third point that we I made was that I said we strive for respect and solution oriented dialogue that does not mean we go that we guarantee harmony that does not mean that we have a one and only solution it does not mean even that we accept or buy into the opinion of another one what it means is that we try to find a common ground for change for development for learning for improvement and I left the student yesterday in the evening that in a very challenging and great dialogue stood up and raised his hand and said we are going to the public and to occupy and she said a very young girl I think 1718 coming from the Swiss German part said I love to see that occupy is here on stage I love to see that the young woman came up to say because you didn't show respect you didn't go for the dialogue you didn't strive for solutions and that is what I think is the point here we go for solutions we may not find the solution maybe we find the little generator but at least this is the soul of this to be open, strive for a clear dialogue and let us at least get some more understanding let us get the common ground let me thank you the school because we are every year here in this room let me thank the team that organizes all these sessions let me thank the advisor board that helps us of course to define with all of you the topics thanks to the speakers and moderators who do a wonderful job thank you the audience because you really helped us to have a great dialogue and I guarantee you we continue with this next year we all look forward next year to the Open Davos thank you all