 Welcome back to the Breakfast in Plus TV Africa, we head straight to our first major conversation where we look at women's participation in science and technology, African women and of course Niger is not left out in all of this. Following the need to achieve full and equal access to and participation in science for women and girls and further achieve gender equality and empowerment of women and girls, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a slash RES slash 70 slash 2112 declaring 11th of February International Day of the Girl Child and to join the conversation this morning is Professor Omolade Okwa, she's the President of Organization of Women in Science for the developing world in Lassu. It's good to have you join us Professor Omolade Okwa. Thanks for having me. Okay so let's start with it, being that this day has actually it's a global event as we speak now. What is the significance of this day and what does this mean for us as a country and as a continent? Well today is a very important day globally and also in Nigeria because Nigeria is in Africa and African women and girls have been all the representatives in STEM that teach science, technology, engineering and mathematics. If you go to most universities in Nigeria you see few girls in engineering class, mathematics, and even popular science and the aim of the International Day is to achieve gender balance because science and gender equality are both vital for the achievement of internationally agreed development goals which include the 2030 agenda for sustainable development. Women and girls are going to be participating well in STEM when compared to men so in order to achieve this full participation of women United Nations in 2015 December 22 inaugurated this International Day of Women and Girls in Science and Nigeria should not be left out. Interesting you know talking about the International Day of Women and Girls in Science and you've rightly pointed out and given us a bit of a statistic or a picture of the situation madam that women and girls are underrepresented when it comes to STEM in Nigeria. Why is that the case? Well this starts right from the sense of certain discipline as male oriented and certain discipline as human oriented for example teaching and nursing. If I 80% of the workforce are women but we also have young girls that I'm interested in going into engineering and what we see as male related job and the situation is very bad in Nigeria because right from the home we see parents discriminating between their male child and girl child which is not supposed to be so because a male child is unique and a girl child is also unique so they should not if a girl child says she wants to go to be a pilot there should nothing should stop the parents for uh of no supporting that girl child so it should be start right from the home we should encourage that girl child when they want to go into certain discipline that we feel they are male oriented and that we help us to achieve gender equality and empowerment of women and girls because women and girls are agents of change. Are you are you are you saying that in Nigeria today that that that people feel and parents in particular feel that certain fields in in science are strictly for men you know you talked about engineering you talked about aviation in for instance being a pilot is it much of an issue now parents having their their female their daughters you know going into into aviation to be pilots the parents really start to stop their children from going there or the kids who want to be engineers is it seen as a male dominated field maybe a mechanical or a chemical engineer you know the parents is that is that a thing in Nigeria that parents don't want their kids to become engineers we are we are females or to become pilots if we are females is that really a thing yes yes statistics the male child is always according to go towards setting discipline while the female child is according to go towards setting discipline it shouldn't be so if there's nothing wrong if a girl child wants to be an engineer so we should support them that's what i'm saying we should support them if a girl child wants to go into to discipline we feel is there are more males there we should try to support them right from right from our deception and that we lead to gender balance and gender equality because women women do better in so many fields and that is why today we are having more male Nobel laureates 97 percent of male laureates are the males why only three percent are females that is a very wide gap so it starts right from before we should encourage of course the interest we come from the dead child but we should not show it and encourage them okay so um let's also look at the fact that you know over the past the years 15 and above uh you have the global community making a lot of effort and inspiring and engaging women and girls in science but the constant is still the same as they are still underrepresented what could still be the factor i know yes that you have talked about you know the issue of family involvement but let's even look at this effort that's been made is over a decade plus and there was still where we are so what what could be responsible for the under representation like i said it's all boils down to gender discrimination this is very uh it's a very serious problems in Africa gender discrimination we should give girls for example a man has a limited income we prefer to send the male child to school why why the girl child is left to stay at home so we should give girls and women equal opportunities like men and uh even the women themselves women themselves at the conference is discriminating between their male child and the female child so and the women that are already in STEM should be role models to girls in STEM so whenever they see other women as a she that would encourage the parents of the girl child and girl child themselves so and we should improve the STEM education and support uh our girls at an early age and also uh there should be more more research plans and more fun for women that want to go into STEM interesting all right just just before i let you know kofi come in now let's also ask are there policy direction i mean in Nigeria now talking about the uh the involvement of girls and of course you know women in science and uh technology mathematics among others uh do you think that there's a policy direction to their effects and encouraging women's participation in science and technology professor Amola Day Okowa can you hear me yes there is that's why we are coming to talk to me mafia that's why we are hello yes we can hear you go ahead so that's it that's why we have the minister of women affairs and the association that I belong to organization of women is science for the development world it's actually an international organization that has a branch in every university in Nigeria the purpose is to encourage our young girls by mental okay we seem to be having some sort of network challenges madam are you there please can you hear okay fantastic fantastic and we hear that you know I mean tell us more about the the importance and the benefits of to the economy and not just in Nigeria but around the world of having more women and equal representation of the of the genders in in in the in the field of science because we we're talking about the 2023 agenda for sustainable development some talk about the sustainable development goes and I'm told that we have lost contact with with our guest professor Amola Day Okowa you know but it's it's it's a very important field science you know in today's world everything in life is being made easy with the employment of science and and we can also say technology you know and and it's it's really sad to hear you know from our guest who is a an expert expert in the field that women are highly underrepresented when it comes to science you know and she even talked about the Nobel Prize you know and that 97% of those women are men and she's not and that this is not because men are more intelligent than women this is simply because we don't have enough women in the field and when it comes to Africa and part of the problem would be that our girls are being dissuaded from engaging in what is maybe considered masculine field and that's really worrying you know and that's really worrying and and I think it's important the kind of work that this her group is doing you know even the United Nations coming with such a day for awareness to be created that girls can get into scientific fields that may be considered to be male dominated and do well we shouldn't stop girls from getting to these these fields but that's one hand it's like the the law you have two hands the other hand is also the interest like she has just said of our girls and women in science you know globally even not just again in terms of girls the interest in the science is maybe winning you know how many people want to go into school to study you know mathematics and all those kind of things you know but we here we have a guest back um professor Mola de Ocoa can you hear us please all right we're just trying to ask Fana from you what's the importance of of women having a greater participation and you know being involved in the field of science to our economy and also to the achievement of the sustainable development goals of the 2023 agenda for sustainable development well it is very important because when we're participating in science first we achieve a gender equality and there'll be empowerment of women and girls and you know that uh more than half of the world population are women and so that is why women need to be recognized not only are beneficiaries but as agents of change women are good managers so when it comes to uh stem women are also good money the few women we even have who are doing very well in their different areas and uh uh know they have made cutting scientific innovations and so does it need to encourage more women and girls to go into into STEM for example the last convocation at the University of Lagos the best student was a female student in science even in Lagos State University best student two years ago was a mathematical student a female student so we should encourage women because when we have more women in these areas that we always think they are male dominated that will lead to economic development and economic recovery because women are agents of change all right so um there are also some other arguments uh that um teacher's role in perpetuating or changing gender norms could also be an issue uh where you have a study revealing that issues of teacher negative attitude and poor approach to teachings are insensitive to girls and needs and therefore the approach actually needs to change some others have also said that um you you don't seem to have like a role model and so if you look at those schools you seem to have more I mean male features than female features and this also could also be contributing to having more of girls involving in uh science and related courses do you agree with this postulation I don't agree with your postulation not mine they are not my postulations they are arguments you know for those who are you know looking at the course of involvement of women in the issue of science and technology well I don't totally agree because in Nigeria the teaching preparation we have even more women we said more women than men men prefer to go into business and uh other other things if we go to a certain news school we have more female teachers but if it's uh so uh in in science in science uh in the and our tertiary institution it's more male dominated and that is why the organization for women in science uh we serve as mentors and we're not to mentor these students right from the second news news and encourage them to go into uh science based courses so uh I I I agree also that uh we know gender so we seem to be what we seem to be having uh a bit of well we we we don't seem to be having you know smooth connection with professor you probably might be you know the issue of women not being not being involved in network in the network um I mean you know I mean that's an enlightened note yeah yeah but but you might be surprised that could be the reason you know that could be the reason but this is actually very important you know this conversation is very important and we hope that beyond the 11th of February that we're able to sustain this conversation and you also have some deliberate efforts from reliving quotas I mean it goes beyond just saying yeah there's a ministry of information sorry there's a ministry of women affairs and uh what does that ministry do I mean what's the itinerary what are the activities what are the policy direction to ensure that you have women you know girls involved in all of this but most on top of the list one of the issues she's mentioned is the issue of culture and all of the religious barriers that we probably would have and I think that if we actually take it from that angle then we probably might just be making some kind of progress we're leaving the society where I mean there's a lot of norms I mean a lot of things some parts would believe that hey women you belong to the kitchen and so you have no place here those girls who were stopped on the road by going to Babaji desangolu I don't know why I like calling his name but I mean we pay our taxes in Lagos so why not and you know this one of them said the mother is a teacher but couldn't afford the fees the evil girl because you know she went to private school she didn't go to government school and localists you know the parents don't understand their kids to governments but the second one the house a girl said her mother the parents are gonna for take all of them to school so the boys have gone to school she helps the mom to do her Akara business and and so we still it's you know a lot of people have moved forward you know in Nigeria today but we still have these decisions being taken by by the family you know if if a girl the boy goes he can he can make money he can work hard and he has a better chance of taking care of the family we don't have money to take everyone to school so the girl can stay back if we send the girl to school she's going to go off to another man's house and she may not be sending money to us and she'll be in his house and be you know under him you know and that's the kind of thinking we have any needs to stop really another issue also it's the issue of gender acculturation so you want to also see that usually when gender acculturation yes so you want to know it's just a simple term to describe the act so you have a boy child and you have a girl child in the house and you know usually the way they have been you know the way they've been brought up they have been introduced to having uh you know the boys playing wits uh you know having to play with okay do we have a guest I think we do have a guest back yes so Professor Maladeu can you hear us please are you there Prof Prof are you there yes can you hear us yes fine fantastic yes so so let's quickly show your thoughts on this I mean this was one we're just having a conversation right here in the studio and the issue of gender acculturation do you think that gender acculturation has also contributed to not having women represented I mean women being represented in science and technology let's not repeat that question so the issue of gender acculturation yeah do you think that has yes do you think that has that has contributed to having uh you know the number of women being represented uh less exactly exactly I can hear you I can hear you well so yeah so so we'd like to show your thoughts do you think that that has contributed because we constantly look at the efforts that's been made globally we'll also see efforts that have been made we're not saying that women are not and girls are not involved in you know science and technology especially you know from schools but we're saying that if you look at the the statistics juxtaposing that with that of you know the boys or the men there's no equal representation and so the factor of gender acculturation could that be also an issue that is contributing to having um you know less representation that is that is of course very true that is very true especially in Africa women are even the the main conference in the oaks you see a woman a woman telling the girl come and help me in the kitchen and the boys should not work should not do anything in the house so right from reception you know we trained our our their childs you know as if they are not meant to work they're supposed to be the kitchen no so African women need to change it starts from our culture and women need to change and that is why it is a day for women and and and get the science no our mothers should stop discriminating between their male child and female child and so if we can start uh that need that problem in the course we find that many girls should be more confident and able to pursue certain goals and not feel intimidated so culture is really a very serious problem all right a prophet you know uh mercy asks you about you know policies and um you know you did mention the ministry of renaissance you know as being there um do you think government at the different levels or tiers is doing enough to promote the participation of women and girls in science in Nigeria i think the government have been doing a lot right from the three tiers of governments uh it's actually increasing but it is a very small small ratio for example 2015 we have 21 percent participation of women is there it has increased to 34 percent nine nine here i won't go that's not encouraging but there's an increasing trend the three areas of uh government they've been trying in that aspects giving scholarship to girls and encouraging the the girl child and uh uh even with the the first the first ladies in most of the states they have projects to increase the participation of women and uh and girls in is them and some of them even go out to empower women when a woman is empowered she will look she won't she will even train a girl child so this is very important and uh the the the first ladies the government have been doing it in their own small way but those in private organizations and NGOs who also cooperate with the government so that uh the percentage will increase and uh you know we we continue to move on at a very increasing rate well thank you so much uh professor Omolade Okua thank you for your time although we we have not really had like a smooth time talking uh due to the network challenges but we do appreciate your time this morning and all that you're doing uh for women in science and development in lasso we appreciate you thank you that's why we mean all right then well that's the size of it and beyond having this conversation like what we say i mean faith without works is dead so uh let's add the works to it yes and um she's ended up saying in summary that um you know society government is doing is doing its part um they have the civil uh or non-governmental actors organizations like hers doing their part i mean um so the societal norms and the values and the family you know we need to change the mentality well she it's interesting she said women or mothers are the biggest corporates you know you know um discouraging their daughters from getting to these perceived male dominated fields and i think we need to change that we need to make sure that our families parents mothers and fathers encourage their daughters you know but i think that a major issue would be the interest you know not just girls but um young people are basically losing interest in in science all right we have to move on um we apologize for technical issues but we have more interesting conversations coming ahead we look at the latest in what can be called fuel gate the bad petrol saga in Nigeria i'll be right back stay with us