 These are misdemeanor marijuana arrests, which you see spiking precipitously in the 90s. We're a libertarian publication. And so this kind of chart is alarming to us, to say the least. And then in the subsequent years, most states at this point have legalized cannabis on one level or another. I guess my question for you is, how do you think that has gone so far? Terribly. New York City, New York State's a case in point. I had the experience when I went to LA in 2002. California, supposedly the healthiest state in America, basically had medical marijuana clinics where you basically get a doctor's prescription to go get marijuana. And outside every one of those clinics, you'd see quite a few characters hanging around, hoping to scrounge marijuana off the people going in with the prescriptions. That my prediction for you, I am not a supporter of marijuana in any way, shape or form, except for medicinal use, because I don't think we still fully understand its impact on the development of young people or the day-to-day use that we're now actually encouraging. In my last year, 2016 in New York City, marijuana was associated with more murders than cocaine, heroin, and the other drugs. Fentanyl had just begun to occur during that time. What does that mean to say associated? That there was marijuana on the scene? Climb associated with people trying to rip off marijuana, dealing that it just was always found at the scenes of so many of these crimes. But you're not saying it was, I mean, it's not like during Prohibition, where Al Capone and Bugs and Moran were fighting it out over booze. I mean, it's not marijuana isn't causing it. It's just at the scene because people are using it. A lot of it was in fact with criminals basically going after each other to rob each other of the monies that it generates, rob each other of control of the sale of it, which was because it was illegal to sell it, still illegal in some instances. Right now, part of the issue, it is so confusing as to how do you get it? Right now there are 1500 illegals locations in New York to buy it. There are three legal locations. So the billions of dollars of tax revenue that the state claims it's going to get, they're not going to get it meanwhile. That's bad bureaucracy. But I mean, isn't that, and I mean, the rollout has certainly been botched of legal marijuana, but isn't this a point in case where it's not marijuana, people don't smoke marijuana and then become, I've got to kill somebody. If anything, they tend to become pretty chill. But by making it legal and putting it into storefronts, nobody really gets, you don't see a lot of murders around the black market sale of booze anymore. Like you did during prohibition, wouldn't legalizing it alleviate much of the crime that you're talking about? If it had been done properly, it was not done properly in California, it's being done horrifically poorly here in New York state. Even the idea of restricting these legal marijuana stores of people who have been convicted of crimes involving marijuana, so it sets a bad example in some respects, if you will, that because you were involved in the illegal sale of the past, you now go to the front of the line to try to sell it legally. No, the issue here is the idea is- If I just to dilate on that a little bit, you don't believe in the idea of a good drug dealer, essentially. I am very clear, I am not a supporter of the legalization of marijuana other than I'm a strong believer in its use for medicinal purposes. I think it's use in a regular way over time, we just don't know. There's a lot of studies out there that are still being studied, so that this rush to legalize, most of the rush to legalize by our politicians is twofold. One, to prevent the potential creation of criminal records, which is a reasonable rationale, but the other is to generate money. And generating the money, this is where it's gonna fall down because there's not a state that's legalized that's ever recognized the money that they thought they were going to get. Why, because- Yeah, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on some of this. Certainly Colorado- Oh, we'll definitely disagree on that one. Definitely. And other drugs and other drugs or currently illegal drugs, you are against, I mean, because one of our arguments would be when you make the sale, the production and the sale of these things legal, you take the crime away from it. In the same- Exactly, in the same way that alcohol- Well, you take some of the crime away, because the illegal market is still out there. You think the Mexican cartels basically gotten out of the business of trying to control the marijuana? They're very busy now with fentanyl, naturally. But the idea is- There's a way around that too, legalize it. The black market still generates a significant amount of the crime in the sense. And also the fact that it's still a cash business in this, the other issue at the federal level is still illegal. So you basically have to take cash because you effectively can't use the banks. So as Mayor Adams has complained about in New York City, I haven't seen those specific figures, but the concern about all these illegal marijuana shops with all this cash on hand become targets for robberies. We'll see how that goes over time. Well, again, there's a clear fix to that. We will have you back after drugs are actually legal and we see that crime disappears around the drug traffic as well as the pills- I think what you're gonna end then see is all these movies about zombies wandering the streets. Yeah, yeah. But they'll be happy and peaceful. Hey, that's an excerpt from our reason livestream with Bill Bratton, who was New York City's top cop. He also worked in LA and oversaw dramatic decreases in crime. We talked about what's going on now, what worked in the past, what might work in the future and how to square all of that with the need for civil liberties. If you wanna watch the whole video, check it out. And if you wanna check out our reason livestreams, we do them every Thursday at Zach Weisbühler and I at 1pm Eastern time, go to reason.com and check us out. Thank you.