 Aloha, and welcome back to Talk Story with John Wahey. We've got another exciting show for you this afternoon. I have as my special guest a very good friend and colleague of mine. We have spent some time working on the community and trying to make things better for Hawaii. I want everybody to welcome the former mayor of the city and county of Honolulu, Mufi Hanaman. Thank you, Mufi. And Mufi now is the president of the Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association, and you were just explaining to me that that's a broad name because the people you work with, well tell us about your job. We used to be called the Hawaii Hotel Association. And then I asked the board to change the name to Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association to reflect that we're more than just hotels and lodging properties. We in fact encompassed all of what is tourism. And that includes retail businesses, transportation companies, airlines. And these businesses are all part of your membership. They're all part of our membership. We are about 700 strong. We're the largest private sector visitor industry organization in the state. Mufi, you've always had not only an interest but a talent for working on things like travel and international affairs. Folks, we were just talking about the fact that way back in the day, the mayor was my international director, and you did, in fact you were, I think the first international director in the state of Hawaii ever had. There's a special statue creating that job. I don't know about that. Well, you know, it was so exciting moving back then because as you know, as we were discussing, you actually created a network of offshore states starting from Jeju Island in Korea, Okinawa in Japan, Hawaii, which is offshore of the continental U.S., we even went down to Thailand with Phuket and Malaysia and Taiwan and Hainan Islands. So not only did this network take one side of the, covered all political spectrums, and we combined that with the American territories like Guam and Saipan and the rest of these places. And you actually had a summit. Tell us a little bit about those good old days. Governor, I need to give credit where credit is due. You know, it was really your vision. Well, no, you did the work. I had to, you know, I had to dream. You had to dream, you had to vision. I woke up one morning and said, Mofi! I was very fortunate to work under you, Governor, because you had this vision and it was my job to implement it. And that's exactly what we did. You were the first governor to kind of reach out. And you saw this as more than just missions to exchange macadamia nuts and gifts and so forth. You said, you know, I want substance. I want trade to come out of this. I want tourism. I want investment. And that's exactly what we did. We did a sister-state summit where we brought in all our sister-state relationships and we included the American flag areas that were part of the Pacific Basin Development Council. Can you imagine, in that sister-state summit, we had, this is way back when, we had Taiwan sending delegations in mainland China, which in those days was unthinkable. In fact, I remember you were telling me you had to do something with the logistics. They couldn't catch the same elevator or whatever. But they had a chance to meet and talk and do that. Well, you know, Governor, you had a tremendous foresight. I remember we planned a trip for you to go to Vietnam. And I remember when the idea was broached. You didn't even care that we didn't have diplomatic relations with Vietnam at that point. You said some day they're going to be part of this international community. Let's get in there. So we were the first state. And you went. You went to Vietnam. Well, the last minute, you couldn't go. And so you said, you go. I said, me? And so I went on your behalf. And you know, this is more than just about tourism. Well, in my opinion, it's more than just economics. I mean, President Clinton was just here. Exactly. And we were talking about why he was here. And he had come to address a travel association. And the point that he was making was that tourism actually lays the foundation for peace. That people who visit other cultures, who spend time in other countries, who visit America, visit Hawaii, actually not only spend money, which is important for our economy, but actually learn enough about each other that they contribute to peaceful relations. Absolutely. You're really in the business of the peace business. Well, you know, and it's marvelous because it also speaks to the fact that at the end of the day, we're all part of this worldwide community. And if we can understand each other by traveling to each other's places and so forth, you come away not only getting a better appreciation of that culture, but then when people say things about certain areas of the world or have impressions based on what they see over the media or anecdotally in the like or in social media, you're able to say, wait a second, I was there. It wasn't that way. Yeah. Or so-and-so came to visit us here, and I had a better understanding of it. So tourism is a wonderful, wonderful industry. Well, tell me what the difference is between the, I guess, the traditional Hawaii Tourism Association and your organization. What do they serve? Our mission is basically education, advocacy, and philanthropy. So we try to promote everything that is good about tourism and try to make sure that whether it's with government or the private sector or the military or the communities, we're working collaboratively in partnership. And then we also have an objective to give back to the community. We do the most successful single-day fundraiser in the state called Charity Walk. Oh, okay, okay. And where we raised this year a record $2.26 million. This year alone? This year alone. Wow, congratulations. And what we do is we give that back to the non-profit social service agencies who sometimes, you know, their hands are tied or they're not getting as much money from government because government can only fund so many agencies. We try to help fill that gap and fill that void. It's statewide. It's four charity walks in the four counties. And we do this each and every year. Wow, I didn't know that. And I don't know where many people do, but it's an important fact that people know that you are there not just to, again, not just to do business, which by the way is important, but to give back to our community as well. And so where do most of the participants come from? Are you bringing some people from offshore as well as local? No, it's all here. All our members are basically from the state of Hawaii. And we have some members who are based on the mainland. And then on the charity walk, it's all done on each and every island. It's three weeks in May. We do it, we start with Lanai, Molokai, The Big Island, Maui, Kauai, and then we culminate here the third week in May on Oahu. And then we combine our dollars and then we funded over 350 non-profit groups last year. This year we anticipate to do more. And obviously, $2.26 million is going to go a long way. Well, congratulations. That's really nice. Now, you not only helped me do my international affairs and later on became director of DBED, which is Department of Economic Development and Tourism, but you became, you were the mayor of Honolulu. One of the great mayors of the city and county of Honolulu. You had a chance to be... What was it like to be in that seat? Well, you know, Governor, again, I want to give credit where credit goes. I learned a lot from you when I was working for you. And one of the things I tried to do is exactly how you did with your cabinet. I always tell people, one of my fondest memories of working with you is you appoint a person to the job and then you let them do their job. Yeah, well, that's important. Although Donald Trump doesn't know that. Well, maybe he will now, go ahead. But, you know, I tell people, what's good about being mayor is that you're involved with grassroots issues. Yeah, this is a different kind of... Yeah, you're there, you know, talking about people's parks, their potholes, public safety, law and order, the water that they drink, the sewer that flows through our system, and I like wastewater. All those things are issues that are near and dear. So a mayor, a council member has to be very accessible to the people. And also very hands-on. You know, I had, recently, I had the opportunity to learn more about city government. Really, I thought I knew government. You were on the Charter Commission. I was on the Charter Commission. And then I realized, as I was on the commission, how hands-on that level of government is. I mean, you're dealing with real problems every day. And, you know, sometimes with the state, you can get a little conceptual. You can set, you know, lofty goals. But when you're in the city, lofty goals don't mean much when somebody's roads or streets are flooded or there are too many potholes. That's right. And you've got to go out there and make priorities. Right. And so it was a wonderful job and certainly one that also has a feel-good type of activities. I always said Frank Fosse, one of his biggest contributions to Honolulu is Honolulu city lights. Yes. Because every year, there's a smile on everybody's face as they come to get city hall and doing that whole Christmas season. And, you know, some people used to say, now we know why you really wanted to be remembered. You wanted to like the Christmas tree and sing a Christmas song everywhere. I said, you got it. You know, it almost didn't last. I mean, there were people who didn't want to have the city lights going on and remember this. In fact, I think it was your department that got involved with it when we lit the capital and we had the state join in with the city. Exactly. And there were a lot of people saying, well, you know, but actually government, Pandiyoka Oji told me this a long time ago. He said government needs to be more than just about solving the worst problems of humanity. It needs to also do things that make people happy and express the best of the world. I couldn't agree with you more. And I think nothing makes me happier than to see somebody smile and say, wow, what a difference this program is making. What a difference the city is doing in this area and so forth. And even now in this job with HLTA I have a nonprofit group say, well, we were short of funding and thanks to your charitable contributions. These children got help. These children got help. But every once in a while you've got to deal with the tough issues. So it's one issue that you and I both dealt with for years and you much more than me over the years since then is solving the transportation problem on this island. And as you know, we when we were in office together tried to get started off the mass transit system for City and County of Honolulu. And it was great days back then. The federal government was giving us 90% share of the money and the rest of it but it didn't happen. It took you to get this mass transit system started. And so here we are today. And what are some of the differences between what we faced when the state and you and I were looking at this problem and when you had to deal with it as mayor. Well, I think lessons learned. I think the fact that the last time when you were governor and tried to get it through you had a great working relationship within Mayor Fossey was also a strong transit component. But the last piece was not part of the package and that was the local funding aspect. So we had the federal government guaranteed almost up to 90%. The local government's got to put up first because of what happened last time and then go and petition the federal government for help. And I thought the stars were aligned because we had a president at that time. He was very much aware of our traffic problems here. Senator Inouye was a key fixture in the Senate. So my job was try to make sure that the local aspect would come into place. And we're going to come right back to that because as you know the local aspect is where we now find ourselves having to deal with. So we're going to take a short break and then come back and hear from Mayor Hanuman about the challenges of building a mass transit system. Thank you. She's sad. All the better to see you with my gear. What are you doing? Okay. Research says reading from birth accelerates the baby's brain development. And you're doing that now? Gosh. This is over. Read aloud 15 minutes. Every child. Every parent. Every day. Aloha. My name is Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I'm the host of Shrink Rap Hawaii where I talk to other shrinks. Did you ever want to get your head shrunk? Well, this is the best place to come to pick one. Shrinks that you can look at. I'm here on Tuesdays at 3 o'clock every other Tuesday. I hope you are too. Aloha. Welcome back to Talk Story with John Wahee and our special guest, Mayor Mufi Hanuman who is now president of the you know, I've got to remember that Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association with over 600-700 members. And so we are now discussing the Mastransit system and the challenges that you have. Now, Mufi, first of all, I'm going to really get in there. You created this system as mayor without you, frankly. And I mean this as a compliment because I'm a supporter of the system. And I tried to do it and I couldn't get it done. It's one of the little disappointments when my book family comes out if I have a right one, you know. But you did it. And so you created hard. Tell us about what your thoughts were. How did this all happen? Well, and I tell you what really got me going on this is I was sitting at Governor Lingo's first state-of-the-state address for his speech. I'm looking forward to working with the new mayor of Honolulu to do a Mastransit system. Both he and I have been longtime supporters. I popped out of my seat and I said, wait, wait, wait a second. Did I hear correctly what she just said? And I remember a couple years earlier she tried to do it. In her first or second year in office, she was working with Senate President Bobby Boone at the time. And she pulled back a lot of opposition from within her party to raise a general excise tax. So this was to raise the half percent excise tax. It needed a funding mechanism. So she pulled back. So when I heard that, I said, let me get this. Maybe if I go down now and I do the heavy lifting and as long as Governor she'll support it. She catches the pass. Right, the bipartisan support. So that's exactly what I did. And we were able to and I know people don't like to hear about raising taxes but we got the general excise tax increased in one legislative session. Yeah, it was fantastic because you remember when I was in office we passed the half percent and then it couldn't pass the council but you actually worked it backwards. Didn't you pass it first? Yeah, I went to the state first and then I came to the council. It passed. It passed both sides and then at the end Governor Lingo had some misgivings and so she almost vetoed. So I remember I was in Japan promoting tourism and I had to come back because I got this message from my office. It looks like it may be vetoed this weekend so I came back convened the leaders of the ledge and said, you know, we've come so far and I really believe the stars are aligned. I went to the White House. I had already talked to outgoing Secretary of Transportation Norman Manetta who almost threw me out of his office the first time I went to see him in the waiting days of the Bush administration. He said, wait, wait. You know I sat on that money for Honolulu the whole time and then I got the news that the city council voted rejected that money disappeared in nanoseconds. That was my time. I went back to Washington and reconvenced them. I had to reconvence them, yes. So I thought that we had to do things differently lessons learned if you will and that's why I reversed the process by having the state and the county come up front first and then ask the federal government. And what's the... You also created the heart. What was the purpose of heart as opposed to doing it as a normal CIP project? Well, I think because the council also had to weigh in on this everything that I did, the governor I made sure the council was a part of it and they felt very strongly that we needed to remove it from the city. From the day by day. Day by day there are other things that the Department of Transportation Services City needs to focus on and consider and this was such a big new initiative that based on what we had seen in other cities too some form of a heart authority the best way to do this was to have heart. Now the way I understand it is that Oahu only got the ability to raise a half a percent excise. Well, governor, at that time the neighbor islands had the option to jump in and say they wanted a half percent also. Yeah, but they didn't. They didn't because when I petitioned the legislature I lobbied for that too. It shouldn't just be for Oahu they should have the half percent whatever they wanted for transportation point of view. Why didn't we take advantage of it? It seemed to me that one of the weaknesses of the present system is that we keep treating the half a percent as a tax specifically for mass transit. What we should have in my opinion what we should do is put the half a percent on the table as something that counties all counties, any county that wants to take advantage of it can use it. And just give them that option. Well, I think what the state has done what the process was that the counties had to ask for it and had to push it and approve it and I think that's where the breakdown came because it's the idea of raising the half a percent. But we need to start treating our counties a little bit more like grown-ups don't you think? And I think maybe this is a time to revisit it as they're looking again at making up the shortfall for rail. Which brings us to today. So right now they're looking at making up the shortfall which in terms of one of the proposals on the table is that you make the half a percent you extend it and but or why don't we just make it permanent? I mean seriously I mean everybody has been paying it for a number of years now I don't know is that an option on the table? Well it's all going to depend on what the House and the Senate come forward with. The last legislative session we supported the Senate version when I say we Hawaii Association supported the version that came out and said extend the general excise tax. We really believe that the TAT is not as good an option as the TAT. Which brings us to the transit accommodation status of the hotel room tax. So now one of the options now before under discussion and as I understand it seems very likely that there'll be a special session this summer. So one of the options in addition to continuing or extending the half percent increase in the excise tax is to increase the transit accommodation tax. You folks obviously have an opinion about that. So I'm not going to guess what that opinion is I guess I could but why don't you tell us what your position is. We did last session we prefer the general excise tax you know it's more reliable it's more stable it's something that was set aside for transit. The hotel room tax is really straight from its original purpose during your time in office it was supposed to be for funding of the convention senate assistance to the counties and marketing. Right now the biggest recipient of the transit accommodations tax is the general fund. 52% of the $485 million that's collected in TAT goes to the general fund and government can use it for whatever purpose that has no nexus of tourism. Fine they're doing it that way so that's why we got concerned when they talked about raising the TAT by another percent and using it for a purpose that we need to have a much clearer understanding of how it's going to be. Instead of continuing to go along the path of the general excise tax which we feel and I did as mayor at that time when I lobbied for it that you know tourism goes up and down in good years and we've had six straight years of good years the tourism special fund is robust but when we take a downturn as we've seen in the past it's not going to come in at the same amount and this is our number one industry. I can see where industry people might be afraid that when there is a downturn the general fund portion of this doesn't get reduced. Exactly. But the promotional side and the side that now is going for tourism and there are a couple other issues related to this that I want to touch on Can I just say one thing though? However, if the will of the House and the Senate collectively is that we take a portion of the TAT and if the governor Governor Iggy is for that and if our congressional delegation is saying that we don't want to stand in the way because we are pro-rail. The rail would be a big boom to tourism and our workers who live out in Ewa and Waipahu and Kaligi. If that is the case and we want to be part of the discussion we want to be in the tent as opposed to outside the tent saying what's the nexus to tourism how are we going to benefit from Olimwana sorry, airport to Olimwana and so forth. Well if you did that would be perfect. In fact, even you and I know that the best result would be for the rail to end up in Waikiki and up at Manawa at the university and then we will have a real genuine system. One of the differences though between the TAT and the increase in the excise tax is right now the neighbor island counties are not being really to support the rail but I'm assuming that if there is a increase in the TAT it will be an increase across the whole state so the neighbor islanders might have to weigh in on this. Well this is where as I said we're in the tent visitor industry. We like to say that our preference is that the neighbor islanders not have to use that portion to pay for the rail system on Owahu that they can use for transportation related projects that can benefit the government. No, why not build it at grade? Everybody says the reason why this thing is so expensive is because we're going so high up in the air. It'll actually cost more to go at grade. We looked at it when I was mayor which is why we went elevated. You talk about going in at grade you're going to be dealing with EV issues. It's also going to be a lot slower because you're competing with cars with traffic signals and the like I mean above grade where you can just kind of go through. In Phoenix alone there were 52 traffic accidents in one year because they're in that great system. So you have that. Now let's talk about the cost. It could cost as much as $2.2 billion. Just to change that? Just to change everything and go at grade. So it's already expensive. So to me, rather than try to build at grade, why don't you take that $2.2 million and use that to extend to UH Montenor? And out into Kapolei? Absolutely. So it's more expensive to go out? It's more expensive at grade. It's not going to be as efficient. We're going to have to build a base yard in town also for that. Real quick, why is the state taking 10% of the exercise thing? This was something they forced it upon us back when I was mayor. And they said they needed it for administrative purposes. They take only 5% from the airport. That's my chance. I can answer that question. And so they've never returned it which I think is the first thing they should try to return so that it goes strictly for rail and what it was suited for. And here's the other thing that we have concern about is that anytime they've raised a special fund, say if they raise a TAT we want to make sure that when they say okay the rail project is pow then they have a tendency to put it into a general fund for something else. We're saying if you're going to raise that tax, raise a GT, keep it permanent and let that be part. I think my opinion is we ought to permanentize the half percent for all counties and then let the counties be responsible for how they spend. I really want to thank you. I wish we had another hour but I appreciate your coming and I appreciate your candor and I wish you the best in the special session. Mahalo. Mahalo, thank you very much. Take care. Thank you.