 So it is Wednesday, April 17th, 2019, tomorrow, the Mueller report drops semi-publicly. We don't know how much, for whom, whatever, but something ought to happen. And this is Rex, the Relationship Economy Expedition, our monthly check-in call. I usually start these with a poem, so I'm going to read one just because this poem is titled, Compulsively Allergic to the Truth. By, yeah, excuse me, by Jeffrey McDaniel, Compulsively Allergic to the Truth. I'm sorry I was late. I was pulled over by a cop for driving blindfolded with a raspberry scent of candle flickering in my mouth. I'm sorry I was late. I was on my way when I felt a plot thickening in my arm. I have a fear of heights. Luckily the earth is on the second floor of the universe. I'm not the egg man. I'm the owl who just witnessed another tree fall over in the forest of your life. I'm your father shaking his head at the thought of you. I am his words dissolving in your mind like footprints in a rainstorm. I am a long-legged martini. I am feeding olives to the bull inside you. I am decorating your labyrinth, tacking up snapshots of all the people who've gotten lost in your corridors. I'll read it again just for grim. Compulsively Allergic to the Truth by Jeffrey McDaniel. I'll put the link in our chat after I finish reading it. I'm sorry I was late. I was pulled over by a cop for driving blindfolded with a raspberry scented candle flickering in my mouth. I'm sorry I was late. I was on my way when I felt the plot thickening in my arm. I have a fear of heights. Luckily the earth is on the second floor of the universe. I am not the egg man. I am the owl who just witnessed another tree fall over in the forest of your life. I'm your father shaking his head at the thought of you. I am his words dissolving in your mind like footprints in a rainstorm. I'm a long-legged martini. I am feeding olives to the bull inside you. I am decorating your labyrinth, tacking up snapshots of all the people who've gotten lost in your corridors. Hey, Bill and David here. Welcome to the call. I was in another screen, did not see you arrive. Very nice to see everybody. And Dave, your landscape has gotten very calm and very very fjordic. Kind of restful. Yeah, I like it. Our favorite place in Vermont. Beautiful. And you are well lit. Your whole ambiance has changed even though I think you're probably sitting in exactly the same spot as usual, right? You probably know my corner, yes indeed. Yeah, and you know what? It's completely different now for us. Our Zoom experience has much amplified. Is that a green screen? Yeah, Zoom supports the green screen just kind of natively so you can choose your background. And Zoom is going to change the world, I swear. What should Zoom do next? Well, I don't know. The thing I talked about with you, I still think this, what will be interesting to do next is the YouTube kind of of Zoom. And when you aggregate a bunch of different kinds of interaction that is virtual, and as people slowly adopt that, I mean, I think we still resist it pretty strongly, but I assume we'll stop. And so we'll do more and more of our life in this format. But we'll be interacted instead of watching passively, watching TV passively, we'll be interacting. Yeah, yeah, super interesting. I mean, I'm curious what these things look like, because Inside Jury's Brandon is an attempt to play with that a little bit, but in a really limited way, meaning it's still Zoom, we're still sitting around talking, it's more or less like this, except I'm screen sharing my brain more than usual. And we're sort of riffing off of it more than usual. But otherwise, it's kind of this, right? And I think it's, I think it'd be really interesting to figure out what's the in 30 years, assuming that we're going to do a lot more virtual stuff, what is it going to smell like look like feel like? I still go back to your when you had Ken Homer do the the the somatic exercises, the somatic exercise class, it's kind of my like don't like we can do an exercise class on Zoom and get people moving around and stuff. Well, if Jane Fonda could do it in the 80s, why not? This is better than TV, right? So I would like to contribute two examples, because I've been watching this very closely sort of year by year, week by week. So one of the big things that I've noted is that none other than Eileen Fisher, she of the mall stores and clothing lines. She showed up at Wisdom 2.0 the conference a couple years ago with an initiative about the body, that thing that goes at the mind body that goes in the clothes. And she also has some sort of facility near her home in New York State where some sort of leadership improvement programming something anyway out of this rich stew comes a series of simple Zoom. There's nothing fancy about the technology of bringing together groups of women like a public invitation to come together and kind of hang out, right? It's big brand, big invitation to the world of women at large. It's facilitated, but it's very simple. And they're really well done. You break into what do they call them? Subroom? Yeah, it's so nothing fancy in the technology, but it's really being used for a social movement and a moment in time of women too. And these are face-to-face meetings? These are Zoom things? These are Zoom things. It's all Zoom. It's all Zoom. It's just Zoom, right? When you know Zoom, you know, it's just Zoom and well-designed email and a nicely paid staff. Very interesting. Yeah. And then I myself have done yoga on Zoom in small groups with sort of purposefully designed yoga sessions. And quite wonderful because you can, I do it on my phone in fact and lay the phone on the floor next to me. Yeah, yeah. Switch to the iPad at the end, right? Yeah. So even today without any knowledge beyond the total willingness to participate in Zoom across demographics, right? You have it changing the world. Fascinating. Does anybody here now think that we're moving toward augmented reality, shared spaces where we're all wearing glasses or goggles and we're seeing each other as if we were sitting at the conference table I'm at right now? Anybody think that's happening soon? Not me. I'm not a fan so much. I mean, so for me, like the ARVR and all that is going to transform gaming. I think for things like Fortnite or whatever, World's a Workout, Fortnite and the futures of those, I think that's a no-brainer that the completely immersive experience where you're just wearing the display and you're interacting with things in a different way, that makes total sense to me. But for this kind of thing, I'm just still trying to imagine what's beyond this little Brady Bunch kind of or was it Partridge family where they do the Hollywood Squares like display at the beginning of the show? I attended a talk by the CEO of Zoom, a Zoom talk about this topic and they were highlighting or announcing an intended partnership with an AR partner whose name I forget. But it was actually pretty compelling to be inside the Zoom platform perhaps in the big window that you can also get right alongside the Brady Bunch and to be in a room together in that context, kind of taking stuff that we tried to be in places we tried to be in 10, 15 years ago and building that into Zoom, which I thought was pretty interesting. Sorry, go ahead. Bill, you were going to say something? No, I thought you were. So I saw a demo of a Microsoft thingy where you can sort of be in the same space in augmented reality except everybody's wearing goggles, which means if I'm seeing you wearing goggles, I actually can't see your face or your expressions and your eyes are like the most expressive thing you have. So what they do is they scan your face before you start using the room. They then project your face and lip sync. This is like awkwardness on top of awkwardness. They then project your face onto the 3D avatar that's actually showing up in the 3D rendition of augmented reality and then they lip sync to your voice because your voice is coming through in perfect fidelity because they are capturing your voice. But they have to make it look like you saying those things, which to me falls directly into that little uncanny valley where it's like, I think that's SD there, but it looks like a bad lip sync of an SD. So I'm still not compelled with that. And I don't see how to get around the wearing of goggles that basically obliterate half your face because holographic and other stuff doesn't show up. I want to see a fancy backward camera like Pete's talking about. A fancy what kind of camera? Backward camera. They'll just have a camera inside your goggles basically. Man, so capture your eyes from right up close in personal in the in the goggle. That'd be interesting. I mean what would be fun would be to have, you know how they do when a TV news anchor is reading the screen, they're actually looking at a one-way mirror that's over the lens of the camera that's shooting them. So it looks like they're looking into the lens and they can read the script that's being reflected off that lens. So what if it was like that so that I could see the stuff that you wouldn't see but you could fully see me, right? That would be interesting. No, FYI, the Financial Times had a nice article on Zoom. It's going to go public this year. And the Financial Times thinks it's a very good investment. And it's going to be valued about at $8.7 billion. $8.9 billion. Yep, makes sense. Well I stuck, if anybody's at all interested in this stuff, I stuck a link into a kind of a the beginning of a slide that kind of think this stuff through. I don't really have any idea what to do with it. But it feels really like this will happen. I mean we will see a Zoomy YouTube or something where people are doing and part of the I think is to aggregate all the people who are willing to do different kinds of Zoom stuff. Because I do think we're still on the early part of that curve and you know at some point everybody will be doing it all the time but right we're not there yet. What is this document and whose fingers and head did it come out of? It was born from the head of Zeus. You know the lion of Zeus? How does that work? So I was kind of got kicked off by Ben Roberts I think. I don't know if you know him. He's got a group on Facebook called Movement Weavers and we ended up talking a lot around this conference weaving should be network conferences together kind of concept and he has been doing open space stuff on Zoom which kind of works pretty well you know so you can kind of make it happen and he's got a bunch of people who are really good at facilitation that he's working with and I was just watching good facilitation on Zoom and kind of like what Jerry does you know just naturally you know it works and starting to and then just rocking that wow I think that this will be it's a different thing than YouTube but it will be a thing what's it going to look like you know and I think there ought to be like a worker on co-op kind of thing that the people who post the stuff own the platform so um so I'm I'm literally writing a plan to create for a movement an organization facilitating a movement using these so Dave can you get can what's the next step here you know I I was really excited about this slide deck for about three weeks and then I kind of have just dropped it and I don't I don't really know as the I mean I I probably don't have I would love to follow somebody I'm probably not a good person lead anything and this is about as far as my thinking has gotten on it I've kind of convinced it's real but I'm not sure I was going to do anything about it so if you've got something that you're acting on please you know take whatever is useful and I'd be happy to back you up but yeah I would love a sort of hand off deep dive or something with you and or Ben or whoever kind of wants to be there okay Ben's kind of like on a different path thinking about it but it's an interesting path so and I'm sure he'd love to talk to you about it can you describe what Ben's up to I know you know the little I couldn't quite get to me this thing was very clear I could like I could imagine a YouTube that does interactive live stuff and he wanted to do I think it seems to me more like a 24-7 event that's just always on thinking about a conference that never ends or something like interesting or like like Joey Ito's IRC channel that was kind of how I equated it I don't know Ben would put it there or not but yeah it's like a you know and it's and it's it it's very focused on this movement weaving concept so there is very much a social change orientation towards a mind with a little bit more platform agnostic like I you know I think that there would be a lot of good things happening but it's a platform right um and anyway so there's there's a little bit of a difference between it is it a is it a host is it hosting other people or is it a you know a conference kind of we we were trying different metaphors like are you you're building a conference what if you're building a virtual conference center and people are essentially renting rooms you know and you're providing some of the the billing facility kind of stuff right part of it it's like how do the people who are actually hosting live events like like Jerry's brain I mean Jerry's brain would be a natural thing to fit into this context how do you get paid do people subscribe is there a is there a donor component you know is there a subsidy to the platform those kinds of kinds of things and then the cross-marketing right the referral engine gee you like this yoga class you should try this songa you know kind of thing right I think built into the platform has anyone used a house party the ft is mentioning that that's a live video app for kids for teenagers house party start up targeting teens on video chat I've got at the very end of this slide deck I stuck in a few things I've heard about and that I haven't necessarily played with in house parties on that list all this the gaming folks I think are the ones that are you know way out front it's important because house parties started in 2017 I haven't heard much of them but I think they are you know growing and and you know Google Hangouts does multi-party video and I was trying to I was struggling to use it to do this kind of stuff and it was just the UI was not clean and sharp and and they didn't put anybody on as Google does they didn't put anybody on it that could actually make it better and so I stopped using it and I'm paying money separately to zoom and I would be perfectly happy to use Google Hangouts if it worked and I think Google worked very hard to make the video on Google Hangouts scale to large numbers of people which is interesting so so Google technically is is really good but they just can't figure out the UI on this thing so Jamey welcome to the call we we're on a rift that's kind of started when I was like hey welcome to the zoom gosh I wonder what zoom is going to look like in 20 years from now are we heading toward augmented reality how does that work etc etc and I'm still trying to get over the the old pictures of you you put on facebook recently so I'm like wait a minute wait a minute back when I was dreaming oh dude I want to see those those are fun as hell you need to be on facebook to see those bow I am but I guess I'm not friends with Jamey well you can fix that yeah although basically that was on facebook simply because we got forwarded from instagram I haven't been doing I haven't really been logging into facebook lately ah you haven't been booking in the face nope um hi folks sorry it's been it's been a while it's been a rather hectic last few months for me um including uh a weekend stuttgart a week home than a week in Dubai um that was exhausting although I can say that everything you've heard about Emirates business class it's all true really yeah um it's kind of amazing um so yeah the Dubai folks Dubai I've described it to my wife I described Dubai is kind of like what if Las Vegas actually had a lot of money oh boy that's a little frightening actually Dubai I still can't quite decide how I feel about Dubai because on the one hand it is the by far the um most socially open country in the region um it's you know in some ways it's like Lebanon back in the 70s if you remember it is the story so Beirut being the Paris of the Mediterranean sort of um you know it's easy so I was at a I've spoken at a media conference Arab media forum yes or seven uh 18th annual and um you know it's like a snapshot of what Dubai is it's a microcosm of what Dubai is because you have um men in very traditional robes abayas none of the men are the it there's a bio for men as well I thought the abaya was the men's uh the men's robe no abaya is the women's robe um but the robe in the kafaya uh you know and you know chatting with men in you know business suits and you know men in jeans and t-shirts and women in full abaya you know with head you know head coverings some even with face coverings standing there chatting amably with women you know in skin tight you know body conscious outfits um you know nobody had their arms exposed that was the you they had a little sign saying respectful clothing please which you know indicated with a little indicative of no tank tops um but um it was you know it's very common to see people with radically different styles of dress you know working with each other chatting with each other um oh sorry the men's is called a dish dasha thank you um you know and uh you know um the foreign workers you know most of the of the of the workers are from india they seem reasonably uh I didn't see any indications that they were treated the same way were sort of treated in like oman or um Kuwait um but you know I can't be certain about about that you know it's um but they have a lot of money and they like to spend a lot of money on bringing people in that they think are smart um to come and talk to them and they have they're actually building a museum of the future which is this giant toroid building it is you know it is literally a it's almost like a kind of squashed bagel with covered with arabic writing um except it's going to be like eight stories tall um and I actually have a video of my talk I was one of the kickoff speakers oh cool it was I can put a put a link in the chat if people are interested it's only 20 minutes um it's only 20 minutes and it basically I was asked I was given 20 minutes into the future as the title and so I had to come up with something for that and uh I my first reaction is get anyone remember the old max headroom tv show 20 minutes in 20 minutes into the future was the slug line at the beginning of every episode I thought there's no way these guys can't be all max headroom fans in dubai so they can't be riffing on that can they probably not um interesting but uh let's see is that this link and stick the link here thank you very much um basically my what I chose to talk about was as you can talk about a little bit about climate a little bit about um brittle systems a little bit about ai but most of it about manipulations of a perception of reality um you know everything from uh this person does not exist dot com you guys know that plate that's right david so david so is not actually in a spacecraft heading toward a planet right now um have you have you seen this person does not exist dot dot com I just put a link in the chat it is a what they call a generative adversarial network it's a neural network that does face generation and in in the course of a fraction of a second it will put up a completely computer generated face this person does not exist about two thirds of them are utterly believable the the other third will have a little weird little artifacts like their eyes pointed in slightly different directions or different earrings on on either ear or the hair looks kind of weird but about two thirds of them are completely utterly indistinguishable from reality so I I use the same not not this site but a composite picture of a whole bunch of artificially generated photos and I use it in a presentation a month ago and I said none of these humans has ever existed and or ever will but they look completely realistic blah blah blah blah so I was I was riffing on the same sort of thing you you were just riffing on and so um you know talking about well this is with stills it'll be you can do this with a video fairly soon uh you're basically in a world where it's difficult to believe what you're being shown actually can you do that in your announcer voice in a world where a world a world in which yes a world in which that's your that's your start sorry this is this is a world in which it's impossible to know what's real perfect perfect now you need like a cigarette and some lazy smoke curling then I start get that's what I start channeling um Rod Serling Rod Serling of course um but uh sorry no this the what I end up arguing is that selfies are self-defense oh interesting selfies you know the act of taking a picture of yourself identifying place and location is your statement of documentation here I am here's where I am at this point at this time and this location um and I can prove it if there's no there's no pictures it didn't it didn't happen yeah exactly you know pictures are proof yeah well you know and in a world where you have it's so easy to manipulate pictures having distributed documentation is even more important so yeah an event where you have dozens of people taking pictures with their different phones on different networks that is a much more believable documentation than a single single camera no matter how uh quote-unquote legitimate right multiple people taking pictures of the same event blah blah blah I mean maybe maybe that would convince flat earthers what we need to do is get aliens to take photos of earth selfies with them with the earth in the background from different angles in the galaxy um sure Jerry why not that'll convince them a brief a really brief tangent given that you were in Dubai and we're talking about sort of the wealth of the area so April and I last week were at the conference on world affairs for the third year running which we now love and Jimmy when what year were you there I was there twice in um oh a few years five years before something like that something like that yeah so we we're now very happy participants in this thing will probably get invited back and this year there were two young serbians who i'm who i made friends with through the thing they were panelists on the gen gen z panel that I was in the audience for at the beginning anyway the young woman created a startup that is hard kind of hard to guess in fact I played 20 questions with it with another person over lunch on saturday she is selling camel food for racing camels in the Arab crescent and here's the website proto camel dot com and she's selling it to it's a b2b business so she's selling to distributors in those countries they're doing just fine thank you very much they've done three countries so far the business is under a year old and apparently I need to fact check this racing camels winning racing camels are worth a lot more than thoroughbreds in the horse racing world which is kind of kind of crazy but is a thing and so I could see that I could see that it got really got me thinking there are probably niches like this all over the world the funny things tucked away that you don't think about and it turns out that you know everybody in the camel racing business basically gives their camel a bag of oats and honey or dates and honey before the race it's like no no no that's that's a bad idea so they've created some formula blah blah you can imagine kind of the rest but it's like it's a business and and she's part of an entrepreneurship school that the guy Serbian founded and it all kind of fit together in a really cute memorable story fashion cool um anyway now back to our regularly scheduled show which is already in progress uh let me go quiet for a second and see what other rexy kind of things any of the rest of you have been involved in that we would like to talk about I have a puzzle I'd love to throw out and please you guys you guys are the the right crowd to throw it out to but I've been I was I'm reading I was reading through the set of essays on math it's called from Einstein to girdle I think or something it's great great book essays just kind of stories about math and I can understand I'm sorry I don't know much math but one of the sections gets into a chunk where kind of the the theory of math is about being able to name something and a whole bunch of math is just based on the ability so I think it's kind of set theory or something and give the set a name then it exists and I was translating that back to my reluctance to use the president's name like it's a visceral thing I want to I just want I want to call him the dumpster I I don't want to give him the credence and I was just puzzled by my own reaction to names and the power of names and I was thinking about it in terms of the context of our faces I guess too but but is there something on the is there something about names that really is special that I've never really thought through is that is there a literature or anything yeah I think there's a bunch of stuff here you're reminding me right away of marty who we haven't seen on a rex call for a while but marty said it talks a lot about how we speak the world into being and and I think the naming of things which you know probably umberto echo and a bunch of other philosopher writers have dived into this but I think that I think then the fact of naming is a kind of uh it's a kind of ownership it's a kind of labeling it's a kind of I don't know you know other sorts of things bo did you hit a lot of stuff like in heidegger and other places about names and naming yeah in a way it brings it into being it's all you know that's what naming does and it's so interesting how when we name something we don't question it I mean we just don't it like it makes it real to us like addiction do we really know what that is it like gives us this magical power it's amazing what we how we use words and how they create things that we don't even question and they also they also resonate so you know if you call something a a side drawn or uh warmth adapter you know those evoke very different parts of your brain and and they might be describing the same exact thing but now your assumptions about its purpose and uses and amenability or or friendliness are completely different just just by the label right so this labeling thing's super important and and the funny part of my brain is is remembering the weird names of drugs these days because they've run out of drugs drug names so I'll you know remember to ask your doctor for my must love up plot a meal oh I have a rusty thing to share yes recently um there you know there's this bookstore in town that I love to go to that's this very quirky guy found a called mother for co's and the whole group there it's just I met the most amazing people I mean it's so great no one asked you what you do it's only about art like anyways so um some old there was a philosophy group meeting there on Mondays and so I just started to go because they were reading one of my favorites is Hannah aren't so I really love her so they're reading uh life of the mind unwilling yeah I love her so I'm like well I'm also hanging with these people so I started going and then boy I got hooked up to this whole underground important so it turns out this guy who started that group about a year ago um just walked into the bookstore and says hey can I do this year and I was thinking of doing this and then the next week he went there the owner said oh I found about like seven people who want to do that so he did it but then it started this whole movement in Portland so on there they're like well there's another group on hey go there's another group on Kant and there's another and when there's this thing so it turns out on meetup there's a group of 1000 people here in Portland that go to these philosophy things and so you have like a and it it's very open it's not about you know um they're not dictatorial they're they don't really they don't like they don't harsh on each other they're very open and just like let's talk about Foucault and someone does a presentation on Foucault so there's not like there's also not they deliberately rotate and let people just you know study something and talk about it and the people like I I've just been I was amazed so they essentially there's a whole bunch of people who aren't really knowledgeable philosophy that are going to this so you have older people you have younger people from 20 somethings to 80 something year olds or people are going to these things very cool this one group that I'm in the people in that group went out started all those things and it's just and I went on meetup and I'm like there's a thousand people in this group anyways it's been really fun and I've met the most fascinating interesting people that's really cool yeah thank you anyone with riffs on naming or philosophy slams or anything like that well naming is you know in in myth and and story naming is very powerful you never tell anyone your true name because they know your true name they can they can do awful things to you so it's you know basically true names are the social security number of myth and so you know you're talking about the power of names that's what immediately immediately leaps to not mind it that by using 45's name in this particular context you are acknowledging his power and by by naming by giving him the name or using the name 45 you are acknowledging his position in history but you have replaced his name with a number that in at least in in western in modern western myth a number is dehumanizing you know and you know there's also you know I'm not I'm not a number I'm an individual except you're more likely to have an individual name if you you know an individual identifier of your number and so there's a bit of irony there but by by calling him 45 you're not acknowledging the power of his name and how many of us remember the prisoner series with Patrick McGowan and to me I don't know if you're looking at the screen I'm screen sharing in my brain beautiful nicknames for Trump now of course Trump uh um do you have Cheeto Benito Cheeto Benito I have Cheetos Jesus from Cheeto is it from I have Cheetos Jesus you know Cheeto Benito and uh no no no Benito nice okay that's better and then and similarly Dorito Mussolini all right Dorito Mussolini oh that's a nice one any others oh god there's a whole bunch of them um I've got the comover fascist twiddler I like it's very simple that's crumple thin skin that's a good one the orange overload of absurdities the feral shotting meatball sneering orange man child terroristic man toddler orange face furor you have short-fingered um short-fingered vulgarian is invariant yes here's short-fingered vulgarian with of course appropriate lengths to great and Carter uh and here's the articles he wrote about Trump that got under Trump's skin no short field very short-fingered vulgarian was that vanity fair or was that spy for some reason I thought that was spy magazine I don't know uh dunesbury I think kind of don't know it wasn't it wasn't dunesbury huh well I'll have to find the etymology this yeah um and you were just asking wait something else just popped up who who remembers what oh the prisoner with McGowan right I love that show and I love that show it was good so here's the prisoner um under dystopian visions you bastard you have roco's basilisk there now we're all doomed there we go actually I mentioned roco's basilisk in an article or an essay for new scientists last year and I did I did include an apology at the end for their for the the future torture of their digital twins and I've forgotten I even never put this in my brain so thank you for pointing it out um where has all this put us what what uh what comes to mind in the in the rexie scheme of things Gary what did you think of that article I sent you about um you know comparing uh the about the gilded age being part synonymous with our age about how population pressure and inequality and income because you know did you see that one that was really interesting yeah yeah um and there's people talking about this being the modern gilded age and how the robber barons have just you know gotten new clothes they now look like startup people etc etc so I think that that's super interesting um and let me so there's a bunch of people like nick hanauer who are saying hey billionaires have to be careful because there's so much inequality that historically when this happens the people show up with pitchforks and overthrow the top right and nick hanauer who's quite wealthy has been very vocal about being out of the world saying this um I had a moment at the at cwa last week where um I was listening it wasn't that first gen x gen z panel that I was talking about earlier but rather a little bit later where it dawns on me oh wait I've been listening to Pete uh booty judge who I really like like when you hear him speak uh he speaks in complete thoughts and he answers better than you can imagine anybody answering um the morning after he actually formally announced and he gave like a 30 40 minute talk announcing his his race the morning after uh we were staying with friends in boulder who were watching morning joe which I never ever ever watch and so joe and mika and four other people in and out of the video were all were all interested favorable like saying hey this is a guy to watch etc etc it was super interesting so then I started reflecting oh wait AOC in congress uh Greta Thunberg mobilizing kids to strike out of school the parkland kids uh finally sort of really building a movement out of the school shootings you know in fact there was just a retro report about the columbine shooting which made me just really sad because I was looking at how horrible columbine was and how senseless and how nothing really happened for years and years and that all of that little reminiscing and connecting those dots got me thinking hey might we be at a generational tipping point where somebody like budi judge who I don't think is electable but you know what the last three democratic presidents were all dark horses jimmy carter bill clinton and uh barack obama all three of them nobody thought were going to win so a lot of probability for me either so pardon the current guy was kind of a surprise too the current guy was a big bad surprise in in the worst of ways right the the the current cheetos guy um your ability to predict may not be that good exactly so so let's not count budi judge out completely but and it's also like two years i have to run so it's it's a long ways away but the thing that made me do was actually uh create a thought in my brain uh called i created a thought uh oh shoot i thought oh here we go it's under it's under budi judge for president and uh here is that how his name was pronounced you know what it's bud edge edge is what he says his husband says buda judge is his mnemonic and while watching that i suddenly realized oh my god this guy's name is budi judge is like the so my mnemonic is budi judge which actually sounds like his name more or less and i'm like oh that's that there's a sort of weird little irony there it's just too on the nose that would never be believable in fiction exactly so buda judge i think is a reasonable way to pronounce it and everybody's having to learn to pronounce it right now which is very interesting so i created this thought in my brain does 2020 mark a generational tipping point so we have the green new deal on the table medicare for all on the table uh gen z showing up a wealth tax uh on the table school strikes for climate change i should i should uh i guess that's Greta Thunberg but a are there any other um events incidents movements that i should add to this list be do you agree or disagree what do you think is this a might we be hitting a place where the reaction to trumpismo and to the global shift to the right is so strong that a lot of these groups managed to pull together and actually flip things i personally think that that's true and i've i've sort of a lot of the reading about the left has been that has been too fragmented over the last 10 15 years and that in essence it needed something to motivate it to coalesce to bring it together and so to me that's the value one of the words and even right in the middle of this we're getting the same reaction we're getting too much fragmentation too many people in the right the in other words it's continuing even though it's coalescing kind of totally agree bill in fact i think the left is worse like i was i was pondering some of these issues and realized that um on the right there's like no no bars held like trump can say anything and he appears to still say an office on the left you can't say much of anything without getting somebody you know up your nose about you know this is terrible you did you did what etc etc so there's sort of a no forgiveness approach on the left and there's an anything goes approach on the right and this is a very very bad situation to go into an electoral cycle with really really bad the the democrats have to figure out how to both honor different people with different identities and backgrounds because to me identity politics is a conservative phrase that is trying to corral all the people looking to be heard for generational trauma and a bunch of other things that are totally real and really important the problem is they've now been corralled and the approaches for implementing identity politics like hey let's not listen to richard spencer when he shows up at a campus have destroyed a lot of our ability to actually speak and resolve and improve and whatever so how might we fix that before the next two years are up well okay i'm just going to talk until somebody interests me go for a boat so go ahead there's two big things going on in our society we have we have a bifurcated economy uh you know i post i post these links on facebook i love how no one responds to them 71 first 72 percent of the jobs created since 2008 happened in globe and san francisco new york and the metro areas on the coast 72 percent so i also i've sent jerry of this great list so the inequality thing that's going on it's also happening in europe the center of this country is out they're gone they're not growing they're going nowhere so we've got this bifurcated economy and it's where you've got two speeds going on and i think that accounts for what's going on a great deal of what's going on with these frustration of the trump voters right and the second thing is we have a skills gap we have an economy we've got a government ought we have everything is structured for everyone having a job at ford ford motors i mean everyone's we all know that we're all going to have to like retool ourselves two or three times in our careers we have a knowledge economy and we're still acting like we have we're all working at ford for example when you everyone's going to have to reskill throughout their lifetime so this whole idea of the way unemployment works right now it doesn't work you i think people should be able to like go off of work retrain themselves not have to worry about starving not have to worry about health care and then be able to go back in the economy and so we have all these things to do i just put a thing link in there that shows all these things and i when are we going to address these things because so far what we have is we have a lot of scared angry people who are voting for people like trump all over the you know by the way all over europe too not just america these people have to be addressed and they do have a point and yes globalism took their jobs but so did um so did technology and boy when you look at the fact that the economy that is inside i've sent jerry articles from this fabulous columnist at ft called rana fuhar is that the way you pronounce your name jerry farouhar farouhar boy she's sometimes on cnn by the way anyway she's brilliant and she actually did this big thing where she went in the country and visited like um companies that had that are surviving and what you see are these factory floors bereft of humans you know i mean this is a new world these people there's so much for government to do and i've been banging on this for jerry for a while the thing that a lot of us don't realize is what happened in 0809 could have been a depression and the way it wasn't a depression was unlike the depression we didn't just let the banks fail okay what we did instead was we made sure none of the banks failed and what what john maynard canes and everything how we got out of the depression was world war two world war two was an excuse for a huge amount of fiscal spending but what happened is is the republicans did not let obama do any fiscal spending right remember shovel ready projects which were killed doa so what we've done our current economic environment where we sit right now is all the result of the federal reserve and quantitative easing our economy is basically barely on life support and what the fed has done is essentially just go out there and buy all these bonds all on the yield curve and just push money in the economy which is also pushed up housing stocks so and it's not benefited it's been wonderful for risk people by the way but it's not helped any of those other people who voted for trump and and and so we we we actually have a fantastic opportunity for a real new deal we really do we've got so much we can do i've sent jerry like does anyone know that rob a manual is like what he's done in chicago with his free entrance into community colleges so he's like cut the dropout the dropout rate in high school by 20 rob a manual i mean there's all kind of great things going on in this country and there's it's such a wonderful actually challenging environment for someone like i mean jerry and i have you know anyone who knows public policy or economics this this should be like a glory days for us to do something and and the ideas are all there it doesn't take much anyway so vice greed and what i i'm just waiting when is this going to enter the our politics when are we going to start talking about this so so bow i think just just to interrupt you and get all of our voices in that's an um i love i love where you're going because there's a there's a there's a contradiction that the far right can't figure out right now which is on the one hand striking the note of fears xenophobia homophobia whatever keeps everybody in line and wins votes wins elections and keeps people kind of scared and in the party talking about how to address these problems would be fantastic and there's some conservative and libertarian people who who'd have really good answers to what to do about those things as you're describing and yet that would mean not striking the fear bell over and over and over again so that people are fearful because this is in order to start solving the problems and addressing these things you actually would need to build things and by the way you'd need to build things that smell a little too much like northern european social democracies where if you're unemployed in danmark you get money to go study and money you get paid to retrain blah blah blah blah blah right and they don't want any sniff of any of that so so i think you're putting a really interesting dilemma on that table and one of the reasons i love booty judge is that he is speaking in a way that i think will be heard by people on the right and the left and he's addressing these things like head on although not in enough detail so he's not dropping to policy proposals level i think on purpose he's trying to keep his campaign up here not down here yet but he's saying things in a way partly because he's very religious and partly because he's from the the center of the country etc etc he's speaking in a way that's attracting both sides so there's a really nice possibility that people like him not just him could open up these conversations before the right does i don't know other people other ideas i think elizabeth warren is the one who just about everything i see attributed to her comes from this place bow of let's stop fucking around we government has a lot to offer and we have huge systems problems that we can begin to take that we can't take not just begin to take action on action right and i think a of c speaks the same language especially to those of her demographic right of her age group to me as well so but i i i'm really afraid of this circular firing squad that's going on and i'm also really afraid of the pure fascism right we are literally walking down the path of that led to nazi germany and we're not the only ones you take a look at eastern europe that's right italy that's right and part of what i think from america we forget is that naziism and that whole that that quote world war it wasn't just a german exercise right it was a whole region right went that way uh and yeah so these national border is borders never mean anything in the land of right in in times of fascism and i'm literally not just economically but personally scared to death um a small side note about fascism fascism is really good for large incumbent corporations if fascism and corporatism go hand in hand very very nicely because what fascism does is it destroys labor unions and any kind of pushback and it creates cartels or monopolies and gives the business to the to those businesses the few that survive and and get to get to do it like you get far been uh back in the day or how are today pardon which one how about the right and those companies do very very well so so the people you know the executives of those companies are willing to pour a lot of energy money whatever dark money into the system because they're going to do just fine fascism is great for business for a few businesses not for the fringe businesses they get squished out right the one person yeah so i think we are going to see this all come to a a really messy kernel like a pimple in the next uh next six months because we are rapidly approaching a point where it's very likely that the administration will be directed by court the supreme court and to turnover turn over documents allow the the treasury department to release iris information and they will say no make me um or they won't be directed by the court well no but but my point here is that that is a possibility but i'm what i'm what i'm talking about is the you know direct refutation of institutional uh of institutional norms and we've seen we've seen this happening all along versus the capture of the court system right but we've we've seen this happening all along into a to various degrees but never to a point where there is no um no higher authority to appeal to right and so where where i'm you know where i'm fearful is isn't just that you know isn't simply that that the courts have been captured now it's a that's definitely an issue and it's very possible uh the supreme court will be completely politicized like that but it's also very possible and i think ultimately more even more dangerous for the executive to refuse to accept the rulings of the the courts um because there we have the um well it's always fun to be able to quote Stalin and here it's so in reference to uh criticism from the catholic church how many divisions has the pope um you know how how how many police officers has the supreme court one of the really chilling things i heard early last week in boulder was a liberal journalist who was saying hey look it's pretty easy to envision because trump loves rallies it's going to have many many many many rallies in the next two years it's pretty easy to envision him uh telling rally attendees in an open carry state to bring their weapons and then to print hats that say hey these are my second amendment people and the abbreviation for this would be s a second amendment this s a which would be an echo of hitler's storm up thailung which was the s a which precedes the s s and i don't know that he wants to go but i don't know that he wants to go down the path but i was just sitting there with my blood turned to ice going holy crap i can totally envision that well did you see the um the um michael something blanky on his name the uh cohen uh um not to say interrogation testimony with one of the last things he said was he does not believe that trump will leave office willingly yeah yeah that kind of got glossed over and all the other crap that that he was talking about because that to me was the single most important thing that he said you know the recognition that this is you know if we think that reality has been horrible so far now it's time now reality's about to say hold my beer okay it's um you're at a point where things are about to get could get significantly worse and i think that the um no and the thing is it wasn't just that he said what if the the really important thing is that cohen said he won't it was he didn't he didn't phrase it as a you know as a possibility he framed it as a um as a certainty as an assertion go ahead bub so also let's talk about trump trying to pack the federal reserve and politicize the federal reserve right right uh but you know frankly by the way right wing freaks uh that are in my family thought that obama wasn't going to let go of power either did you have but eric holder or similar you know people never actually made the assertion and to me that's yeah you can make all sorts of claims i mean hell we have the same thing about w and cheney um but uh it wasn't somebody from within the administration saying i don't think the size is going to leave oh i want to pull the and saying it on public tv in a congressional hearing i mean uh yeah yeah that's a big deal you're making me really want to have a cigarette i'll have a cigarette for the group in a minute okay um but i want to post something to the group that really makes me when we concentrate on trump and we're not concentrating on you know talking to the people like hey we know you're in a bad shape we know your jobs have disappeared that's what kind of worries me about this trump talk you know like why don't we like instead of get caught up in his game just go so i want to leave there's to the group i'm shutting up now i'm gonna have a cigarette for all of you okay perfect um so one of the things i loved about and i haven't heard budi j budi judges whole announcement speech from sunday but one of the things i did hear that i loved and it's up early in this in the talk is enough of this like focusing on trump all the time we're going to change the channel and i thought change the channel was a completely brilliant simple metaphor to use because trump is a media animal he's a celebrity you know celebrity tv reality tv celebrity etc etc and he said we're going to change the channel and talk about these problems that we need to face which which is really fantastic i think something interesting about budi judges that he seems to be able to pick very very simple language to say uh the right things in a way that is memorable and i think we'll we'll carry whether he survives you know a couple of primaries who knows but um but i'm rooting for him we also heard um amy klobuchar was a speaker in person on saturday night friday night uh last week so she came and you know talked to the audience she was pretty good um but not like she's a no-nonsense person she wants to run as a as a pragmatic progressive basically who gets things down but i wasn't i wasn't electrified by her like i am listening to uh me or pete somebody wanted to jump in yeah bill let me just sort of like paint a bigger picture because to an extent we're focusing on the united states and to me part of the problem in this situation has anybody ever seen what they call the the elephant curve words which shows how the bulk of the jobs that have been created over the last 20 30 years have been in the third world and that in essence that's what's drawing away the potential of ever having any any kind of sort of response for the flyover america and so in a way that went that which you then combine with things like the uh tpps you know the the uh trans-pacific partnership programs things like that where the global globalization is sort of taking hold and basically insisting that they get their way wherever you know in the world it's occurring and then you add on top of that the statistics that show that that basically the one percent control our legislature in other words that for the last 30 years if the population by the tune of like 80 90 percent wanted something if the one percent didn't didn't want it it didn't happen and they've had three three major universities i think it's princeton and northwestern and some other one that have done these studies and said that we're just out of luck when it comes to legislating so to me some of the languaging changing the channel figuring out unless you have a systemic change we're screwed in other words that concept of fascism in other words corporate socialism basically controlling the conversation and more important controlling the action they literally do not want to see any of these problems resolved right they benefit from having the confusion having the flyover having the hate having the the the whole negative conversation stay inflamed they benefit from it well this is steep benefit strategy sorry go ahead i want jimmy jimmy you're a futurist i view that there's always an oligarchy ruling uh that article i i posted up there about return of the oppressed um basically uh in the beginning of the century of the 20th century here in america remember we had bolshevism we the fbi was formed because we had anarchism uh things were really bad and we've gone through these faces before and frankly this actually causes me hope and there's always been an oligarchy and it's funny i've passed an article on to jerry from the financial times remember the financial time just feel as an elite global newspaper and a columnist was saying yeah it's you guys better hope you scare him a socialism definitely scare the oligarchs with socialism and i i'm at frankly four of that i i i love seeing them scare of socialism because they need to move off the dime and realize things got to change and they and we've gone through this cycle before jimmy please weigh in um i i i agree we're screwed um okay good you've been in your zoom for so long it's finally coming true aren't you sort of in some puzzling difficult dark way happy no i i really wish i was wrong good okay thank god that's actually one of one of the things i was thinking about this morning that just thinking about all the various forecasts i've been working on you know especially lately around climate stuff i hope i have so hope i am completely 180 degrees wrong i would be so happy to be utterly utterly mistaken about the world because you know what i'm seeing right now is not fun you know the the forecasts that i'm wrestling with uh whether they are social you know brittle systems whether they are political you know rising you know uh fascist nationalism uh and again not it's not just us and not even just us in eastern europe i mean hell we were just talking about brazil du terre brazil italy um du terre uh the the power of uh uk ip and and neil and nigel ferage in in the uk and boris johnson um the the fact that um the uh national front natural front the the french fascist neo fascist group came in second in the elections last last time i mean this is a global phenomenon um you know and then you lay your climate and climate issues on top of that and um and yet one of the most interesting moments i had in dubai was i i love giving talks in places like that because i i enjoy throwing in lines that are quietly or loudly subversive and one of the one of the things i said was you know quoting the old and i don't know who said it originally but i've you know it's been around for years um when you make peaceful revolution impossible you make violent revolution inevitable and i had several people come up to me afterwards several dubai citizens and and asked me for you know say they really love that line that it was they that really resonated with them um you shouldn't have said something like that in the gulf states they're always worried about that my man on the planet on the tarmac ready for yourself you know you know um at least i didn't uh say call someone a horse online because then i could be arrested that was the news from a couple weeks ago a woman called a uh her ex-husband's new wife a horse you know a british woman called her uh a woman in dubai a horse and when she arrived in dubai to go to her ex-husband's funeral she was promptly arrested for online defamation wow yeah so didn't call anyone a horse that's that's the important thing an infidel horse i mean by the way fascism isn't good for globalism fascism like what trump's doing is he's tearing down the wto he's he's actually this won't be good for global corporations it's it's good for your friends it's very much um what do they call that cronyism it's crony great crony and so fascism is a big threat actually to global multinationals for the global markets yes so it's not hand in hand if the google won't be wanting fascism though of course they're kind of playing ball with china and let's not forget that ball in the room china the competition right now between china and the us is that's something else i'm calling it the what's it it's it's a tech war really if you think about it i love that i use that term a tech a tech war like william shatner books no i haven't read those books no no he actually wrote a a series of books in the god 90s and called that were called tech war it was a tech war series my brain is a repository of weird stuff almost as weird as as jerry's digital brain and we're getting a bifurcation in the internet we have a great you know digital wall of china and we've got belt and world initiative and and i just read how china is now get inserting themselves in all the uh the islands the sullen islands all the micronesia all those things china is in so much trouble china is in so much you think yeah no it's the um the harder you clench your fist the more systems will slip through your fingers yeah to to quote princess leah um the they're cracking down really hard in the west on the wiggers and to the point of they're actually putting together what have been called concentration camps reeducation camps that's right um the she is becoming uh just pretty much despotic with power i mean i you probably heard about the um the oh god was the she lessons app that all state employees including educators have to download and use that basically you have to do a number of of of the lessons from the thinking of chairman she on this app every day to generate enough points to be able to avoid being investigated for not being sufficiently patriotic um i'll dig up the the information on it and post it but it put it on the the chat or into the email but it's but you're at a point where they are clamping down so hard out of the recognition that a lot of the system isn't working um that yeah i think that one of the things we're going to see over the next 20 years is the the shift of attention of radical islam from the west to china and i don't know how china how well china is going to handle that um and uh uh you know they are they're in serious trouble around climate issues as well and while they are actually but they're actually acting on those yes more than anybody well okay they're the biggest they're the second biggest country in the world they're going to be more than anybody about anything no no but they're actually acting on it we're we're pretty big and we cause most of it and we're doing crap right but they're when they decide to move a whole bunch of coal plants they just move a whole bunch of coal plants it they haven't been building more coal plants but they haven't been setting them down either that's you know they're they've been doing a lot with solar um but they're still building more cars than anybody um they're also building more electric cars than anybody but again they're the biggest they're going to be the most yeah um i i am reluctantly dubious about how aggressively they're pushing the climate stuff i think a lot of it is for is for global public consumption interesting um hey jamae one could you address india a little bit and then can you do more oh india india is going to be fun have you heard about the um the uh cow violence uh again there's a particular term for it i have heard about it yeah the basically cow activists are going and beating up or killing muslims for uh for insulting cattle yeah i don't know how many people here know this but india right now modi is a hindu nationalist though let's repeat that that's like having a christian nationalist president it's yeah it's not a great situation well india yeah definitely add india to the list of places that are going down with this kind of nationalist hellhole i think sd wanted to jump in india's let's recycle right now ahead of us i just wanted to say that i need to run off to be in a 10 30 so and i wish i smoked and i already had enough coffee to energize a horse so i'm not exactly sure what i'm doing with myself meditation and yo to uh quick quick to quote loid bridges from airplane looks like i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue exactly so um if you in the next few minutes come up with an appropriate collective uh after action um please do share um uh and i guess i'm trying to say thank you thank you we'll we'll find a nice uh unicorn meditation video on youtube and send it to the list cats lots and lots of videos of cats you know cats get me nervous i don't know about the videos of cats bye guys well you're weird jerry sasty well it's like not it's half the cat videos are you know you're being stalked by the cat and the cat you know you look around the corner the cat freezes while it's about to attack you how is that calming because what impasses on you at purrs oh that's true and then it does makes muffins on your on your chest or something like that i love that miss my cat i want to argue for hope come on i mean we again you're starting late in the call bow but go ahead we've you know it's always been the end of the world and we're just in another cycle i i you know i agree that fascism is peaking around the corner all over the world national it's all over the world uh come on jerry don't be sort of pressing so i will argue that the thing i put in conversation like two-thirds the way through the call which is are we at a generational tipping point where young people just get freaking fed up with what's going on and say nope we're done we're going to act together and fix these things could that might actually be happening and i would suggest that that is an optimistic scenario and and to me that's the systemic change that i think is required in other words you've got to get something that overloads the existing quote system that just says i've had enough i don't care what you call this but it's not that in other words that they're just going to what i would consider to be the bernie sanders effect that you've got to have enough momentum and enough people following him that you get a legislative change not just a channel change and in that sense 45 the tedious jesus is a bit of a godsend exactly because he's creating so much anxiety and hatred and backlash that this might actually cause these movements to begin to work in concert the problem is that liberals tend to shoot each other instead of working concert that's i think that's a really big issue um but i think that's the difference of the millennials the millennials are going to be more likely to coalesce and and understand the value of coalescing than the other you know older groups exactly have you all been following the there's a meme that trump is god's broken fail sort of a broken messenger and that the bible predicts trump and that like like on the right on the evangelical side there are a whole bunch of people that michelle bachman was quoted as saying this uh just a couple days ago that that that hey when when maybe when the antichrist comes or whatever it is what when we get to these times the messenger is going to be a flawed human so that's okay so everything trump does is in fact a sign that he is this guy that's an active meme um they don't have that in the final time i don't see that stuff where do you see this stuff it's out there plumbing out there reddit the truth is out there bro i don't want to see that truth yeah so i just posted a couple of things to the chat one is a piece from bloomberg from a couple months ago about cow vigilantes yes and the other is something i wrote about a year ago uh a scenario counterfactual scenario what what would it be like if hillary had one and you realize that none of the other institutional forces will have changed and you'd still have an a overwhelmingly republican uh congress at that at that point um and all of the you know fox news and you'd have trump up there you know with his alternative channel pushing a whole bunch of crap and none of the the investigations into russia wouldn't be happening because all you did stop trying to relitigate the last election you won get over it you know that kind of stuff and um it was you know i'm sure it's exaggerated in some ways but i it was a thought experiment what really would have been like if hillary had one and i think that we wouldn't we wouldn't have had an have had an aoc we wouldn't have the kind of um well the kind of stuff that jerry was talking about earlier in terms of this generational momentum and i i i think that it would have been it would just have felt in arguably even more depressing because it would be just a sense of nothing ever works we went through eight years of obama getting pushed back on everything now we're gonna go through four or eight years of clinton being pushed back you know getting pushed back on everything and it's just so i you know i think that if we survive him uh trump's trump will have been a ultimately a positive thing for for the world because of the backlash that he engendered but if we survive him let's think about you know i can express the the crypto capitalist oligarch point of view and let me and from that point of view hillary clinton was really good for my portfolio come on she was one of us quote and it's to me it's a heartening thing that bernie sanders almost took her out and so because the democratic party has been bill clinton's the best free trader ever the bill clinton and hillary clinton they're just republicans and you know pink clothing and uh we really need something more than that so jimé i hope that jives in with what you're saying because that's what i'm hoping for and let's think the millennials they're they're they don't have much invested in the status quo they're not gaining right no and a lot of them have are in massive debt because of of college the college loans i one thing i like about about uh buddha judge yeah is that um he's younger than me i don't want a president older than me ever again which is a sad moment when we realize we're older than this you know older than presidents and all that uh todd and dav uh last words go ahead todd yeah i i feel like i need to speak up for flyover country um because of the media and because of the depiction of rallies um i i think that you people on the coast you kind of lose lose touch with the entire center of the country is not trumpite it's much closer to david brooks reading david brooks lately about community about social fabric the the the trumpite fact faction is loud it's militant it's visible um but i would estimate you know in these environs it's one out of four people um it's it's not 60 percent uh certainly not as high and it's 37 nationally the people who the people who support trump no matter what seems to to have a a level about 37 nationally right which is a huge number of humans that is a large number of humans but it's not a majority and i and i think it's what to what i was saying is is very important to reiterate and to emphasize that there are plenty of of people in the midwest who you know we may not think of as liberals but certainly are not the kind of um are not fascist in training yeah but there's been a lot of loss here um and i i think that that is much greater than economic loss it's just a failure to have frameworks worldviews for how our perception of the world is changing not just the world itself and so all of the the political hot button issues are not as important as the social fabric changing um and people here in the great lakes region um falsely long for the days when it seemed like community was widespread and easy um and i think that there's some delusions there um but it this is this is not a bunch of people with guns in the streets though you see that every once in a while um it's people who feel like they've lost a lot like what have they lost what have they lost let me just interject a quick thing because i just put a link in the chat i thought i'm hearing you and i i want more people to be on brooks's range then on the firing range on the far right um but the the thing that scared me was the precinct level map of the 2016 election where i looked at origan and in my mind i thought well the right half of the state is pretty red the left half might be blue no no no no no no there are two counties where portland exists um and once you set foot outside those counties the vote was 74 for trump now that might be some middle the rotors registering a protest vote saying well i guess if it's between trump and hillary i'm going to go for trump and whatever but the middle of the country out the whole center of the country at a precinct level the blue was just a little veneer on the outsides and a couple of little dots you know austin and arbor uh boulder what have you and you got outside the metropolitan areas and it was trump trump trump trump trump at a very deep level right so that truly frightened me yeah except don't be don't mistake area for density i get it but but a big a big part of those you know red quote unquote red counties are empty you know and so yeah you're absolutely right the the county or the or the precinct may have gone red but that's because it's a you know it also is a very small number of people compared to the massive numbers of people in the city so that's you know that's actually one of the political difficulties that we're dealing with globally is the uh political structures that were were set up under a different balance of urban rural populations and you know now we have systems that give undue weight to the votes of of voices in rural areas i mean there are more people who play world of warcraft than who are employed in farms um in the in the united states that makes sense there are now as of the most recent polling there are now more atheists than evangelicals what united states atheists not no religions which is sort of encompasses atheists and agnostic but you know no religion uh that makes more of those than than evangelicals or catholics yeah sorry time to interrupt you were you gonna yeah just one more one more thing i'll throw in there there are people who migrate towards trump because of what he symbolizes to them um but i think the the overriding feeling is just anti-elitism anti-establishment i'm sick of people telling me what to do and who i am and what to think that's where the majority of the passion is coming from mm-hmm thank you anybody else with uh closing thoughts for this call bo is looking suspiciously at that idea i put in two links sorry jay so i'll flag them real quick before bo closes things now one was a link about your um uh the air this is the era of youth and peter levine has written some stuff about the increase in voting in 2018 2016 for youth and then the other one was just a link arguing with the um idea that all job growth is on the coasts that new newest job growth may be more in the trump region so that's interesting yeah yeah where's that i want to see that link where's that the edsal article yeah it's the edsal article in that yeah thomas edsal who's a really really terrific new york times columnist he's a very deep thinker his articles are always a long read with a lot of links and for an old guy to put a lot of links in in articles consistently is a really great and great thing um but i i like what he says very often so it's edsal's column scroll up in the chat i will uh copy the chat and send it to all of us when i have uploaded the call any any other closing thoughts i need to run gotta go to another call yeah talk yeah all right thanks for being here cow babies yeah for now until next month and see you on the least uh we'll talk rainbows and puppies next time and kitties and oh gotta remember the kitties yeah thanks guys bye