 I have another meeting at seven and I'm going to need to get some things done for it. We should be out of here by six 30 or maybe okay. I'm not making any promises, but. The efficient here. Okay. Shall I start? Yes. Okay. Good afternoon. The appointed hour at five o'clock PM has been reached and I welcome everybody to the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. My name is Catherine Porter chair of the Amherst Design Review Board and I'm calling this meeting to order pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30 a section 18 and the governor's March 15 2020 order imposing strict limitations on the number of people that may gather in one place. This public hearing of the town of Amherst Design Review Board is being conducted via remote participation. This meeting will be held in person. No in-person audience, attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but the public can attend tonight's virtual meeting by using the zoom login information provided on the meeting agenda listed on the meeting calendar, which provided on the town of Amherst website. We will begin with our roll call of the members of the Design Review Board who have been impaneled for the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. Let's move on to the agenda. Board members, would you please say I or yes to acknowledge your attendance for the record? Lindsay Schnarr. Yes. Okay. Janet Marquard. Yes. Erica Zecos. Yes. I'm Catherine Porter and Tom Long. The other member is not here. Also when attendees as Marine Pollock planner and staff are involved in the meeting, the design review board, DRB and its accompanying zoning regulations were created by town meeting on October 8, 1983. The charge and purpose of the design review board under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to preserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources by providing for a significant increase in land use, the appearance of structures and the appearance of sites which may affect these resources. The design review board exercises this responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards within specific overlay zoning districts in the town center. The design review board overlay district and the town common design review overlaid district design review was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere in Amherst, which will result in substantial alteration to the form or appearance of a structure or site. All design review board meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. Each meeting recording will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. After the board has completed its questions, the board will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board will have enough information and time, it will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board will type up the recommendations for distribution to the applicant, board applicable land use board and building commissioner. We will see if there are any, I think we're going to start with announcements. I'm looking at the agenda here. Are there any announcements? Is there any new business? Not anticipated. 48 hours prior to the meeting. If not, then we're going to go to applications. DRB FY 2021-09. Town of Amherst to review the proposed design alternatives for the Pomeroy village intersection project. Located at the intersection of west street, 116 and Pomeroy west Pomeroy streets. So who's going to present that to us? Is that going to be Chris? Yes. Yes. Marine's going to help me by showing the slides. Okay. One second. Let me pull that up. So that was, here we go. And this is a new slide show that's, or this is the slide show that's abridged from the January. 25th meeting. That's correct. Okay. Let's send it to you this afternoon. Okay. So go ahead and start on the first slide. Title slide. Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. So good evening. My name is Chris Brestrup and I'm the planning director for the town of Amherst. I'm the planning director for the town of Amherst. We're seeking input from the public and from boards and committees. About the Pomeroy village center intersection project. At this time, we don't really have a design to show you, but we're going to be talking to you about concepts. And for the designer view board, since this is a town project, we'll be coming back to you once the design has been. More. We're going to be talking about the design and the design. And we're going to be talking about the design and the design. And we're going to be talking about the design and the design and the design on the details, but at this time we're kind of at the. 10,000 foot. View. So may I have the next slide, please. As you know, this is a meeting of the design review board. Traveling around listening to traveling around via zoom. Listening to input from the public. As well as from boards and committees. And we did receive comments from the planning board. I think it was at their, one of the more recent meetings. So anyway, we're, we're really, you know, As I said, I'm Chris Brestrup and I'm going to be listening to what you're saying and Maureen and I will be taking notes. You have the next slide, please. I'm going to be talking to you about why this project is coming up now and then provide a brief background on this intersection project and then ask for your ideas, questions, concerns and comments. We're not going to get down to the level of, you know, how wide is the sidewalk and how many trees are going to be planted or anything like that. As I said, this is like a 10,000 foot. View. Next slide, please. So Pomeroy village center lies in South Amherst at the intersection of Pomeroy lane, West Pomeroy lane and route 116, which is also known as West street. It has a mix of single family home neighborhoods, apartments and condominiums, businesses, offices and schools. It's a high traffic intersection, especially during rush hours. Next slide, please. So what types of challenges does this intersection have? Well, it has a lack of pedestrian. Access. It's definitely a car centered design that lacks proper sidewalks. Sidewalks that are there are narrow and very bumpy and not well maintained. It lacks curb ramps for people to get down from the sidewalk into a place where they can cross the street. It lacks crosswalks. It doesn't have any bike lanes. And the existing traffic signals don't have pedestrian operated signals for crossing. So, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good problem with cars backing up or queuing in the afternoon. As people come southbound to pick up their children at the preschools. And as people leave Amherst to drive home, South Adley and Grandley and point south. Next slide, please. The town of Amherst applied for and received $1.5 million from the straight is from the state in a mass works grant. The city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to provide safety and efficiency. Pedestrian and bicycle safety. And we'll provide well designed bus stops for transit riders. The project is a collaboration between the department of public works and the planning department. With review and approval by the town council, which has jurisdiction over the public ways. Next slide, please. So the project has a long history. It began back in the 1990s. The city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to improve the intersection. But they wanted to do it in a way that the residents of Amherst didn't think was appropriate. So the town asked to take over the road. And the town now owns the root one 16 from the intersection of root nine. And college street with South. South pleasant up in the center of town. All the way down to country corners road. So the city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to provide safety and efficiency. So the city of Amherst has control of that stretch of road. In the early 2000s, the town installed traffic signals there prior to that, it had been a four way stop with stop signs. And these were meant as placeholders. They weren't really meant as a permanent solution. And. There was a recognition that a new design would have to be made of the intersection. So with that in mind. The assistance of the, well, actually I should say the DPW and the planning department, the assistance of the design review board, developed a design for the intersection with lots of public input, including meetings and surveys. But there wasn't any money to build the improvements. The design review board was very involved at that time. They held multiple public meetings. Issued a survey and it was really, um, you know, to to work on this design but we applied for a mass works grant to build that design in 2013 and we weren't successful in getting the money from mass works. So then this past year in 2020 we did apply again for the mass works grant and this time we were successful. Next slide please. So I'm here to inform you about the project and to seek input from you to help the council decide what type of intersection to develop. The town council needs to make a decision by June as to whether to develop an enhanced signalized intersection or to develop a roundabout and I'd like to tell you a little about those two types. So a signalized intersection is controlled or regulated by traffic signals or road signs and this is the type of intersection that we're most familiar with and you can see an image of what that looks like in this in this picture here. The roundabout is a circular intersection where drivers travel counterclockwise around a center island. There are usually no traffic signals or stop signs in a roundabout. Drivers yield as they approach the roundabout and then they enter the roundabout and exit at their desired street. This type of intersection is becoming more popular and more common here and elsewhere. Next slide please. So the questions that we'd like you to focus on tonight as I said we're we don't really have a design that is to the point where you can give detailed comments but we'd like you to tell us whether you how you use the intersection. Do you travel through it and if you do do you walk, drive, bike ride or travel by transit? What improvements would you like to see in Pomeray Village Center? What features are most important to you in the redesigned Pomeray Village intersection? How can we make the area more welcoming and how can we help to support businesses in the Village Center? Next slide please. So what are the opportunities for public input? Town staff has been meeting with various groups including Town Council, the TSO or Town Services and Outreach Committee with the District 5 community where the project is located and we're contacting abutting property owners and meeting with business operators. We'll be contacting people who live in the area and there's also an interactive website www.engageammers.org. The Town Council is holding committee meetings and they have hosted two open public meetings, one on Thursday, March 25th and another on Saturday, March 27th and they're soliciting written public comments. The TSO is meeting again on April 8th and April 22nd and they're hoping to make a recommendation to the Town Council at their meeting on April 22nd. So we'd like to hear from you the design review board about your ideas and questions and concerns and once the Town has hired design engineers to design the project, this project will be coming back to the DRB for specific comments and recommendations on the design. So now we'd like to hear from you. Thank you. Thank you. Are there some thoughts that people would like to offer at this time? Erica maybe you would since you've been somewhat familiar with it. Sure. Yeah I am a South Emerson resident and I do travel through this intersection quite a bit usually on my way through to pick up dinner at El Comolito, Civis or Mission Cantina, all my favorite places. But I do also travel through here by bike from time to time in the warm months and I'm really mindful that this intersection is very, very car-oriented and not at all oriented to the pedestrian or the cyclist. And I think that whatever we do, well I am leaning towards a roundabout for a couple of reasons that I'll explain in a minute, whatever we do we really need to keep the pedestrian and the cyclist first in mind with things like wider sidewalks, better lighting, protected and maybe even signaled crossings not pedestrian initiated light or audio signaled crossings. I am leaning towards thinking that a rotary is the better choice here for a couple of reasons. One is that traffic calming is baked into the design. You must slow down. It's going to be a single lane rotary and so you slow down on a approach and you must continue to be slow upon the exit of a rotary. And I think that traffic calming is something I've heard. I've been to two public meetings about this intersection already and I've heard that from multiple people. And also a rotary is the more environmentally friendly solution. People simply don't idle as much and so you're not admitting as much pollution into the air. And so I think that as a town that's trying to be mindful of our carbon emissions, this is a better choice. So definitely want to keep the pedestrian first pedestrian and the cyclist first in mind. I know that there are concerns about rotary safety especially for visually impaired pedestrians. And I know that there also are design measures that can be taken to help that. And one of them is that small islands between the lanes so that there's a kind of a safe place that divides the distance of the crossing in half. And I think that could be done with either a signal or a rotary but wanted to suggest that as well. And then generally speaking I think because this part of town is kind of emerged slowly over time that the architecture doesn't have a common voice. And there's a lot of parking on the street instead of buildings on the street and so that definition should be provided with landscaping. Landscape buffers and street trees to help unify that stretch that is within the purview of this project. I have a few other things on my list but I'll cede to somebody else talk for a minute. Okay. Jan or Lindsay either one of you have any thoughts on this? I do. I express them at some other meetings and I think Chris has heard but it's been a while. I have pretty extensive experience with roundabouts in the British Isles. Few are on the European continent but they're also there. And I think as a driver of a vehicle they're great. They do slow you down. I hate them as a pedestrian or a cyclist. And I also think the intersection is too small for a proper roundabout. I think it's really hard if it's so small like the one that's at Pleasant and what is that triangle street. It's so tiny that you can't get in it and get out of it to know whether somebody else is getting in or getting out of it. They're just isn't time to see the flow. I prefer the way that the British do it in small intersections when you're coming in from an open road that's faster like we have and they have all these small highways and then they go through a village and they keep going. The road narrows to just barely the two lanes for a few hundred feet and then it opens into the multiple lanes that are necessary if there's a left turn or whatever. And then it closes up again until it opens back into the main road and that slows people down but it also allows pedestrian crossings that are safer because you've already slowed way down. There's signs that tell you you're entering our village. Please drive slowly. It's walked down to 25 or 20 miles per hour and then there's clear crosswalks and bike lanes and then it opens back out and this to me works better than a roundabout which is really I think for cars and trucks. I also would just have to say that I drive there it's true a lot but I also walk around it and I walk to and from it on Pomerai and Pomerai East is in terrible shape. That street really needs repaving. It's even walking let alone driving on it. There's places where there's on the bridge there's a bridge at one point and if it's icy one whole side of the street is it's not cleared and so it stays the one that's in the shape stays iced over and there's no sidewalk on the other side and it's really you don't have to walk right in front of right in the lane with traffic in the winter along there so I think Pomerai East is a treatment as well. I realize that this grant doesn't extend that far but it's maybe something that will be collateral DPW you know project so thank you. Let's say Lindsay. Hi um I don't live right there but I do drive that way a lot and it does provide a lot of access um through to um well lots of places but so I am very familiar with it um I tend to think that while I appreciate the some of the points that Erica made about kind of the conscientious nature of roundabouts um I think that I do have some concern about it for pedestrian use specifically um so I don't I guess that's you know the question of like how what are some good examples of ways in which um roundabouts have been introduced with a high kind of like focus on pedestrian safety because I think that area in particular is very active for pedestrians both um in terms of people that are just kind of dashing between parking lots I know that Mission Cantina often gets overflowed um in their parking and so people park on the other side people are crossing at night often I know I have and there's not a lot of traffic so I don't worry as much but I do know that I even will admit to the fact that with some of the new roundabouts that have gone into town that I don't know there's just a tendency to kind of like move a little faster partly because you're trying to get in line and you know get in queue but also it's just there's there's an expectation that there's not as much of a delay um so I worry a little bit about that like people just kind of like moving more quickly through that intersection especially with the tendency for it to be a high kind of foot traffic or bike traffic area um then I know there's there's the Amherst Montessori school there I don't know how much that really gets a lot of kid traffic but um there are just so many restaurants that are in that little area that it feels like a place where it could be a really lovely pedestrian intersection um but I guess I just I feel like the rotary is more about like moving people moving cars through quickly versus like giving the focus to the slowed down pedestrian pace that's just kind of a personal take though the data is irrefutable that it's the rotaries are slower and safer for cars and um I've been uh my friend um Tracy Zafian Zafian who's on the Transportation Advisory Committee um has forward me forwarded me some links about pedestrian safety and there are a lot of things that can be done and I think you know regardless of which direction the town goes with this intersection that they'll want to you know take those design methods into consideration um but a rotary does slow the car down and so whether that ends up being safer for pedestrians because the car never fully stops is it's it's harder to gauge how to cross so yeah um um Miss Porter uh if if I may I I just want to um point out to uh clarify just uh one or two things um so I've heard members talk about rotaries and then sometimes roundabouts they're actually two distinctly different designs which is very common sometimes um I I interchanged them but they are very different so a rotary is typically a large is a large is typically large with entry speeds of 40 miles per hour or higher a roundabout is generally small speeds are rarely more than 25 miles per hour um and so a roundabout is uh designed to slow down vehicular traffic and a rotary you often see along um highways particularly if you've been into uh Boston Sullivan Square would be a perfect example of a horrible of a very unsafe rotary a classic rotary and you know like mass DOT and DOTs across the country are trying to actually get away from rotaries that are designed to speed traffic masses of traffic and roundabouts are about you know they're intended to slow down vehicular traffic I just wanted to clarify that okay thank you why does that a couple of thoughts um I know the roundabout there's something sort of I don't know peaceful to me I've gotten used to them at first I I wasn't so I wasn't so happy about them I do have that thing I have that same concern about pedestrians because I go through the triangle roundabout uh quite a bit and see people trying to cross the street they sort of jump from one curb to the island and uh that could be the once people get used to it and it's and it's designed in such a way that it gives people that feeling that they can make it through the roundabout or round or navigate the roundabout that might not be such a big thing I think the the whatever we do will improve the aesthetics of that intersection it's really not a very it's not a good looking intersection and I think that if we just had the traditional new traffic lights with new curbing and landscaping it would give it a much better look with with uh some thought to the aesthetics of that area and probably I would hope we would get the same feeling from a roundabout to me when I get on the roundabout I'm on a mission to get up to get on and get off and go someplace and I'm not sure if that's if that's conducive for people to come down there and then go to Mission Cantina or the other Mexican restaurant or Montessori school as maybe as easily as if they were doing if they were going through an intersection they might feel more apt to make a turn to do one of those things where it's around about once you get in it's like a gerbil in a wheel but I mean I wouldn't vote definitely against it I I find myself sort of sitting on the on the fence about it but and again I don't know how it's going to be a probably a relatively small area but I I think whatever we do it will definitely improve the improve the aesthetics of that intersection which is again need to be more and more important so I guess I think everybody said with a few uh exceptions so those are my thoughts so Chris are you wanting just people's input or uh at this point is too early to make a recommendation of sort of a formal design review recommendation what would be most helpful for you well we're really looking for people's input but if the board okay wants to make a recommendation you're welcome to do that but that's not really what we're seeking or most of the comments oh also I believe miss marquette has raised her hand oh okay I can't see jam yeah marquardt not marquardt sorry I knew it um I just wanted to say that whether you do a roundabout or a signaled intersection I think that the crosswalk should be way far back from where the inter the roads intersect yes it's much safer never try and cross a roundabout there should be a crosswalk long before it and even if people have to walk over a little bit and then back it's much safer and I think that's true of an intersection as well they shouldn't be right where the corners of the street come so that would you know work for either one but it allows people also as they're crossing that little bit further over that they look at the businesses they pay attention to what's around them you know and waiting at a signal sometimes you see things you wouldn't have if there weren't one uh whether it's in driving or biking or whatever so that's an advantage too to making it feel like a little town any other thoughts from anybody I have a comment I'd like to like to share if it's okay so one of the things that came up a while ago not about this particular intersection but about another intersection was that a signalized intersection where you have two roads coming at right angles to one another makes it easier to develop the land on the corners so you end up with four you know sort of rectangular shaped properties that you could conceivably develop and this intersection the one that we're talking about right now even though you know it's got sort of haphazard development and the parking is towards the front of the buildings and the buildings are not what you would necessarily call a cohesive design I think there is going to be development there in the future and I guess my question for you all is what do you think about that what do you think about the issue of a roundabout versus a standard intersection with regard to potential development of the corner properties that's something that's been sort of gnawing at me may I score it yeah so one of the things I've heard is that like with I really appreciate your question Chris and I one of the things that I've heard is that traffic numbers here are likely to instigate a need for turning lanes um which may erode those corner conditions that you're referring to so I guess that's something we probably want to know more about as the design comes together and of course we are thinking that Hickory Ridge will that property will be developed someday down the road so maybe we need turning lanes in all directions I don't know um but I do think it's an interesting idea it's like if you could do something cohesive at the corners you're going to begin to create some kind of a an identity an aesthetic identity I just wanted to remind people about the possibility of turning lanes do you have any thoughts on that Chris well so when I first started talking about this with with people back then back when and Jonathan Tucker was the planning director he you know talked about this building that is right across from 500 courtyard and it is right on the street and it's right it's just the one north of R&P liquor it's a new building and I think it was designed by uh Laura Fitch yeah anyway up here school down farther down oh sure in Cantina it's a building that's kind of that one yeah so that's a mixed use building and that is up close to the street and it's got its parking behind it that was kind of the first what should I say line in the sand or something like that to make it you know here is where we're going to form a village center and we want it to be like this we want it to be buildings close to the road you know sidewalks in front of the buildings parking behind and I just feel like I question whether a roundabout is conducive to that type of development to making this more of a village center as each of these corner parcels is developed in the future you know we may not always have a gas station at that corner we may not always have you know the slow buddy building that's surrounded by parking on the northwest corner or the seven Pomeranian lane that has parking right out in front they may be designed in different ways so I'm just feeling like that has to be brought into consideration when we're thinking about what configuration we want here so anyway that's just a thought Chris I think it actually argues again against the roundabout I think you're absolutely right it just doesn't feel as much of a village gathering place with buildings that could be close and interaction between them easily if you have the roundabout and I would like to see that where there are a number of businesses or shops you know close together with parking not just you know obstructing access to them and and I think that would go nicely with sidewalk setback signals that allow people to linger a little bit yeah I'm going to agree with Jan and Chris on this if you as I I've pondered this for a while because I know the planning board's been talking about it and I really think for a center that the opportunity to have the intersection is better for creating a feeling of sort of a grounding of a of the center of a pond or a village center there whereas the roundabout once you get on it you're just you're missing the corners or if you do it could be more awkward yeah so I'm going to weigh in on the interest an improved intersection which could be very lovely and give a feeling of a community or a village center that people can manage in so many ways bikes and walkways so Chris is there a parallel effort by the town to encourage new businesses to go in or anything like say a coffee house or anything are we looking at getting more in here at the same time or is that completely um it sort of grows by itself it's sort of organic um and we don't have a we don't have an economic development director right now so we're not um you know the the town is not out seeking businesses to go here I would say perhaps the chamber of commerce is and but the town as a body is not seeking particular businesses but I'm hoping eventually we do get an economic development director and that he would he or she would do that okay I wonder if it might be possible as part of the ongoing decision making and research portion of this to collect some precedents of both cases at similar scales in other locations what you know around the country even where you know it might be that because I tend to lean toward the same conclusion that the roundabout may not be as conducive to the type of community that may be envisioned for this location but I also don't know that's that's based on perhaps not knowing of examples that exist in which it which it has been conducive so um it might be it might be true that if I were to see some examples of models for this type of design that my feelings would change so I'd be curious to see what what's out there in terms of examples at this scale um that are images of of intersections that do achieve the overall goals um thank you okay any other thoughts from the group so chris are you okay with the uh it seems more in favor of the roundabout is that is that correct that's the impression I'm getting so chris what would you like I think this is good this she's a favorite okay all right lots of different ideas and I think this is probably what we're looking at at this time um I mean if you wanted to take a vote you could but I'm not looking for a vote so I suggest we not take a vote at this point if you're coming back with one or the other uh unless others I don't know that personally that we need a vote is that anybody want to have a vote or can we just uh let chris take our suggestions and take them on to the um next group and do more research right thank you very much bye bye goodbye so our next uh do you want me to pull up the agenda yes yes right it's the uh redo of the restaurant yes um okay uh so let me make that would be Federico okay let me make Federico a panelist so bear with me for a minute okay Federico okay hi Federico hi how are you um so welcome um do you need um help sharing your screen or or um I'm happy to share the screen with you for you you don't mind this I yeah sure no problem okay and uh just give me one second let me open it because we made okay hold on no I tell uh I tell about me here I can share it oh okay because that way if we have courses I can show you uh different things yeah and so this is your first time um doing a uh coming before the design review board so I'll just just explain um so you'll give a presentation of what you're proposing and um just walk the board members through that and then the board will likely have questions and they'll be a back and forth and um if they have all the information they need they'll make recommendations sure so my name is Federico Mendiola and I am a restaurant tour I have other restaurants in Massachusetts and we have one in Connecticut um the name of the restaurant is Frontera Grill of those restaurants that I have and the one coming to Amherst it will be called Garcia's it will be um like different terras but with some additions and subtractions because of the folks at Amherst uh students uh maybe a little more salads with more protein and my chef has been working on the menu to bring it to Amherst so it's not going to be um the one at Frontera but it will be something very similar with the same ingredient same proteins and um the project Garcia's we are looking to just remodel and get it ready do a lot of uh uh cosmetic changes bringing a lot of tile in there this is pretty big so we have to bring a lot of tile in there we have two patios and we're planning to bring um furniture for the patios um kind of vending it is coming from Mexico and it's going to be metal chairs that have ceiling tiles in them and they'll be covered with this epoxy and the sizes will be standard sizes of tables and chairs the table will measure 35 by 35 by 35 with four chairs and the same with I think uh four tables are coming up that are six tops so the same the same specs um they're probably gonna be uh five feet by 30 and these six chairs and that is to give us some um some life to the patio and hopefully change the previous days that that we had um enamorized um with any businesses that came in before before we came and to give it a positive energy to the town and it will be a casual dining restaurant just like the Frontera grills and if you haven't been to Frontera grill it is a casual dining Mexican restaurant that has the typical burritos fajitas tacos enchiladas that are typical and we'll have margaritas we'll have um a beer tap um we'll have um night specials with food only not with any drinks uh because we gotta follow the uh the the law of massachusetts you cannot have any happy hour special time price on drinks in massachusetts so we are trying to bring in a good concept uh to Amherst and we are not going to change anything on the outside um we are redoing the paving um because he has to be done it's been pre-beat up over the years and there was a lot of cracks on on the um on the parking lot that they will get fixed and the lighting will remain the same we're not really touching anything outside we're just trying to paint and um i'm gonna scroll down to show you the the paint that i projected and i have also other options if you feel that is maybe something that is too bright or different this right here the painting will be yellow and the letters will be um the letters that see us that will be on the front just like the uh like the picture shows they will be on each side of the doors and the letters will be um they will be placed in the space on top of the doors on a six foot space and the letters average probably nine ten inches each so for the eye um to be um organized that six foot space on both sides and they are led lights the the uh the letters are right on the front and they're black on the side and there will be time when they come on and come off probably automatic with time savings light and um that's pretty much what we're trying to do and we're looking for any comments or questions that you might have for us okay thank you thank you oh and did you want to um Federico did uh did you want to show them um you had some photos of the outdoor patio yeah patio yeah yeah yeah now this would not be uh your this is a bigger patio from another restaurant but this is the idea that yeah correct yeah so this part is probably uh one and a half uh the size of yeah we have on the side of the faces the inside of the parking lot but this is the idea also the umbrellas will be probably something different provided um by um by us and put out there with uh heavy footing that with that will withstand the wind and we have done that in Chicopee uh we did that last year during the pandemic when we were allowed to open we put uh tables that were six feet apart and we provided um umbrellas that were uh put on the ground with the 25 foot base um made of steel that we purchased at a local store and we put two two sandbags of 25 pounds each on each one of them to secure them to the ground so this probably will be the same in that way it doesn't go anywhere it doesn't hurt anybody besides the tables we're looking to put um nine to ten tables it's gonna be four and six nine to ten tables on both sides so they will not be um close to any tables when we put them in because we're not looking to put a lot of people on the patio it's just gonna be something that's not accentuate the ethnicity of the restaurant from the outside when people are driving by or walking by or visiting the restaurant okay did you say you have a restaurant in Chicopee is that what you said yes ma'am okay grill at the rotary of uh Memorial Drive on James Street oh okay okay do you have a side entrance uh at the restaurant here if they do yeah it's a sign entrance and exit could people come someplace in there um excuse me if you repeat the question yeah do you have a side exit or entrance on this on this window side i think the service come out through the door okay yeah actually could you scroll to like the beginning of this i think um and that's um you provided the the site plan and uh floor plan from yeah for porta and are you using the same layout as before for porta in our restaurant yeah this was part of your application this is what um you had submitted with your application so is there if you scroll up one more i wonder if it shows the outdoor dining oh no it doesn't oh yeah uh so it here it shows to the right it shows that there's outdoor dining let's see here that there's outdoor dining in the front along east pleasant street and then so this is what we were talking about and there's the exit from the restaurant and there's a patio which is a little larger and there there are two doors on this one because it's a little bit larger and this goes towards the bathroom so we'll make sure that when we direct people folks that come to visit the restaurant uh for for the general safety we'll probably ask them to use this door to go towards the bathroom because it's not going to be the one that has the most traffic because this one will be the one where servers will come in from the bar area in the kitchen to exit through the door yeah all right so uh uh design review board members uh your comments or questions who would like to start anybody have thoughts well i just say one thing that um not having the purple will be a great belief too i think most people in amherst this would be a major color i don't know but but uh so and you're one other thought you you have the same amount of parking space that uh was originally uh uh associated with protuchies can you also park around uh near the spoke or is your parking limited to your the no actually the uh the i believe the last time i checked the parking spots that was 12 um in 62 parking spots plus four handicapped spaces right in front of the restaurant by the door by the front door so if you try to cross the patio from from the restaurant doors spoke those will be the first four spaces that are marked as handicapped and when we get done with the paving they will remain the same first four spots for accessibility in the spots behind the spoke those are um common spaces between the spoke in in hours so i'm gonna try to have um my staff um the best i can to have a park uh those spots first that way the customers and patrons that come um they're a little bit closer to the restaurants because most most of the employees will be in there for several hours and people that come into the restaurant they're probably average maybe an hour and 20 minutes of the restaurant okay so questions comments from anybody do i just go down uh lindsay um yeah i mean i think this all looks really good so um you know i think my only concern is i think the color looks nice um and i i don't think it's too bright necessarily at least in the first rendering but um color is funny in that you know it can change depending on the lighting and um so you know i i think you're you're working with cune riddle on this yeah yeah so i'm sure they'll then are they managing the cut the exterior color no this uh this render i had it done with defaults uh that i'm working with in mexico cune riddle offered to do it but this was already done if i may and i understand about the color that might fade over time i have some options that i would like to run by you and get your input and because these are going to be colors also that could be the ones that we could change the buildings colors too i was um i was prepared and i picked different colors to see what you would envision being as the best choice for the restaurant in that if i can share i like this this yellow is a little subdued and i like that if if you can if it can be held true to that not turn out to be like yeah the next slide of the patio even you can see it already here is much yellow yeah really is too bright and yeah this is almost a goal that would be the shade of the sun so when the sun hits it is going to get its full potential and when it has a little shade it's going to it's going to be seen as little darker but the code that you follow with paints uh you go to the if i can share here in a moment you go to the people and you pick a color that is the one that is going to be on the building okay let me see how i can share so you could stop the share and open the file that you want to show yeah thank you so so i go do i go share screen or no yeah sure a share screen and so that will show everything that you have open on your computer yeah and how do i go to my desktop um well is the um is the like the is it open is the like the file open with the files in it oh okay then um you need to change your view so that you don't see the whole screen presume at the top yeah well he might have sometimes when you have multiple like pds open um it can kind of get a little wonky uh would you want to email it to me if you're not able to yeah let's see if i can change from here i almost want to try to share this screen because in that folder i have um like five six different colors and i have a render with one potential favorite color that that we chose um that you can see the building that is uh painted with it okay um i'm gonna do a zoom um i don't know about some calls i don't need to read well you're doing great especially for your first time um so sorry um let's see here i'll probably just take a couple seconds uh probably take a few seconds for it to get to my email we didn't get it on the original uh application and you know i submitted it to jenny from modeling's uh with the original application um but uh when i got the link um when she sent me the link a few days ago is not on there is not attached to oh yeah oh i didn't know that well i'm glad that you're bringing it up um so sorry that didn't um i wouldn't you just happen there are so many moving parts that it's hard to keep track of everything at the time sure uh so did you send that to my email which is uh polyc m and it's gonna be fast if i do it from my phone what is your email again uh polyc p o l l oc k m isn't morian so it's polyc m okay all right more recent it just sent great yeah if it was a consensus that you guys overall thought this this gel will be too bright um or too um not good enough for the building uh please feel free to tell me if uh one of the art colors is more appropriate i have um i leave more towards the the one color that's a little more on the dark orange side um in every color that i submit he has a name on top of the swatch that i chose from uh the home people so that way you can see that that color is not going to change so if i was able to paint the building that would be the code that we will buy so it's gonna be darker around the end and lighter on another side okay so let me start over okay okay this is what i have okay so here's a gray uh with a sort of a gray trim is that right yeah let me at the trim i think we're just looking at the pink color okay which one here um let me see let me look at the screen again is one of the is that the question which one is one of these yeah is it one or the other yeah i wasn't watching the screen because i was trying to navigate through the other screens so that's lazy laser lemon or some english daisy the the laser lemon is uh to turn it down and make a little dark so it's not as bright and light that will fade away too easy over time yeah the laser lemon uh and the name of the one that that i sent um if you can look at the picture there is there another one oh um hold on a second is the one that is called english daisy right yeah they're both up yeah we've got those and was there another one i think that was it oh did we i i think we saw and if you look at the building it has a render with that oh dear right there yeah this don't mind the sign because that was very early yeah right so that's not gonna be a sign would you um did we see a sign proposed for um facing the road here not there no it's gonna have only signs over the door on both sides um this oh yeah yep yep yep that right okay then i have a green one but i believe those would be brighter i have two green ones that i sent in also yeah we can yeah i think maybe not to green yeah oh i have a question about um the you know i think their color as i said before it's it's its own science right and so um i i don't know that there's a tendency to me to do um at least a mock-up if not have the architects oversee this um because um there's a lot to take into consideration i mean i definitely leaned for the laser lemon and in terms of the options that are provided for a number of reasons i think the green is too bright and i think the orange red while in its own okay face could be fine i think in the context of against some of these other buildings that have this kind of um reddish orange brick might be a question of of how well those either match or contrast in a way that you may not anticipate so i lean toward the gold but i but i also question if this laser lemon is going to read more like gold or read more like mustard colored and i think um again in certain in certain locations a mustard can be fine but it can also be really loud and given that this building has already kind of become an eyesore in terms of its color i i just i hope that um you know you'll be able to land on a color that really works well here and i i do think that that kind of like gold that the more muted gold could look really nice the way it's shown in this rendering but i agree that in some of the follow-up images it starts to read a little too yellow like a little too like yellow mustardy so so i think it's a it's a question both of um finding that right heat finding that right color but also perhaps having a designer's eye on it might not be a bad idea um and doing it certainly doing a mock-up like a patch on the wall maybe even like a whole swath of a wall given that it's against that blue and it's going to be really hard to tell um before getting the whole you know painting the whole building and i think that's what the architects would oversee as well and and advise us to do some kind of um portioned mock-up to make sure that the color really reads the way that isn't it's intended so you know i i don't know what the reasoning is for not having them manage that part but i think that they certainly would be a good candidate for ensuring that the color is is handled appropriately um and if they don't handle it i think i think it might be a question of um finding out finding a way to make sure that the mock-up is is done um and certain kind of reviews are perhaps done as well to just check on it because like i said i think it it could be really lovely and it could be it could be a a miss right so i agree with that and i've also learned over the years that the color that you pick on the swatch always is more uh intense and brighter when it gets on the wall out in the light particularly outdoor so it may look fine in the store or you know just on the swatch itself but it's going to really intensify over a large wall and our light in the northeast is very different from the light in mexico or in california where i grew up and colors come across very differently here than they do in that light so i agree that getting a sample tin of paint and even painting white behind it around it so that that blue is offset and and painting a considerable section of wall to see how it appears in the light here and with the surrounding buildings would be important okay i would 100 agree with getting some paint and painting a wall but so about so lindsay and jam let's suppose he does this um what would be the do we want to see it do we want to go down and take a look at it or uh how will we ever make the decision about the color if we don't personally go and take a look at it because we'll get another suggesting that he consult with prune riddle and if they were involved i feel perfectly well involved if he doesn't want prune riddle to be involved in this then i mean if he wants us i don't know but i think there should be more people viewing it with sort of a disinterested yeah i think my recommendation is to have prune riddle um be the the the agent that reviews it because they have a lot of experience in managing color on buildings and and knowing both how to select a color but also how to review it properly so that's my recommendation um as kind of the most straightforward professional approach and and also probably when i say straightforward like you don't have to come back to us and figure out another pathway i think it's the most obvious path yeah it's a really big building and it's really exposed there's going to be a lot of that color with multiple sides visible at once from you know from a distance it's not like a small storefront that sandwiched between other buildings and other storefronts there's going to be a lot of that color so it's really important to get it right you can see what happens when you get it wrong from the previous previous people you know i do like the black trim i are you going to put any part of it so anything in that front that front patio that we're seeing here it looks really errant and that actually was my comment because i know that i'm going to try to do a quick draw on the screen there is a there's a big um whoop oh sorry i was trying to make it bigger here i'll make it bigger hold on a second sorry okay we're frozen um there's a big uh square right now of um plant the planter there now and you said you were going to rework the paving but are you going to maintain that that square that is planted at the moment and there's also i think plantings along the edges of the those half walls those low walls that separate the patio areas so that's my thought i was thinking that um maintaining those planting areas and providing some green in a way to break up all of that pavement would be a nice thing to to keep rather than to pave over yes and will help tone down the walls yeah so you're saying planters on the half wall there i think that it currently mr. manuel i think that there already is a bit of um in front of in front of this wall and in front of the other um let me erase all my sorry and let's see if that pops up i wish i had a photo um right now i have i have plenty of pictures oh right uh we'll we'll show you well if it's up to if it's up to date um let's see here uh give me a second oh it would be up here yeah yeah start with the aerial view because i think it's on there oh okay whoops sorry that oh so there's this this planter right here no um and then just on the edges of each of the patio walls i believe that's a planted edge see like they capped it maybe it's maybe it's just grass but and then that's a little bit of a dirt edge as well oh yeah you could put more there yeah yeah better but definitely to do something pretty lush in that center would really help yeah the center definitely you are able to do something decide on the half wall there there is just a trim of grass looks like um i have to consult with a landscaper to see what is something we could put there the idea is not to block the view to the uh to the patio but really to enhance it so in the corners of both ends i could probably put some really nice plants that are flourish um up on top of there but i really wouldn't be looking to block the patio from the general view no but you could have low pots that are filled with colorful flowers like you said that would really enhance the entrance that too yep hopefully they will last they will last uh being outside yep with the weather and things yeah well you have to water them and you might also you might also consider as some people i think suggested widening that area in front of the half wall um on the north side by simply removing i say simply because i i'm not a landscape architect and i don't know what might be involved in that but presumably you might be able to remove some of those what would appear to be like two by two pavers um along that north edge and and perhaps you know um still not block the passage way into the double doors so so that's one potential option for giving a little more green space but i i also don't know that you necessarily need it i do agree with erica that maybe utilizing that square that's existing would be a nice way to introduce a bit more life to the corner yeah we're not changing anything that's out out there uh any green space that's outside we're going to continue to fix it and do something nice with it okay so it's not in your rendering in that but you do intend to keep it yes okay that's that's nice and as far as the cure riddle going back to answer that um they were not involved in the render because we needed something that that showed the the sign um on the building the render just happened to be there and what the company in mexico they're just mounted digitally the signs on the building so i had that done but i can easily just ask them to give me two or three of the max renders of colors but i just want to bring up that no matter what cune riddle will do it will be the same expectation in the same result when i present it to you so i'll present you something with a with a certain shade and it's not going to be down to perfection oh i understand that and i and i don't expect it to be anything different necessarily it's more about um ensuring that there are that there are professional eyes on it you know that there's someone that can can check to make sure that um the color meets the expectation yeah so the the only real way to get it done and see what the color is going to look like i'll paint some lines some white lines on the walls and really see it live or take some pictures on daylight and see how they contrast but the renders are not going to be done to what we are looking for we can't have them overlooking which is not a problem but you know i will show up when the building is painted like i think someone mentioned that when you paint on some areas it may look dark because of the shade sure like he's different up here yeah yeah and i think that the goal is to find a way to um the one i say having professional eyes on it there's a there's a an understanding from architects and interior designers of of how color might look in a rendering versus when applied in the field and so there will be that um that control of having the mock-up and having the designer's eye to say okay this mock-up does or does not agree with the rendering that was approved and if it does not agree with it then let's go back and see if we can find a color that does and that that's the process that they would be able to manage for you and that would help to make sure that the color doesn't become something it wasn't intended to be of course i can just i'll ask them to to help me on it um they couldn't be on the meeting tonight because they have prayer arrangements but i'll ask them to um to be part of the process i come in with the rendering so that way even if we can communicate by email and pass it to a group of people you can see it faster than coming down to see it in person absolutely um i just wanted to mention that um frederico is submitting um article 14 application with to the building commissioner and the planning director for as a result of um covid the planning the town of amherst has tried to um provide relief for retail and restaurants that would normally require a special permit review and approval and to instead go through an administrative approval through the building commissioner they would be providing the same sorts of application submissions that would be required for a site plan review or special permit review um and would need to meet all the relevant you know zoning bylaw requirements and whatnot um but this would just speed speed up the the process which takes you know you know at least three four months so i just wanted to point that out so you know um in regards of the color you know the building commissioner would want to still see what is the final color um so i just wanted to clarify that and i think there's consensus in this group that everybody likes the the golden yellow tone that we see on this exterior um and i think the question is how does it look in real life like so we trust the render only so much and it would be i think wise to um to see it in person before you make a commitment to the whole building to do that sample swatch that um Lindsay Schnar was suggesting um so yeah i also i also like this this yellow i like it better where it's in the shade that color with lots of gray in it i would rather see that on the whole thing than where it get the light turns it very very yellow i prefer it more sort of mustardy or darker we're talking yellow we're talking gold and it seems like what we're really looking for is gold as opposed to yellow and so yeah i think i'll agree that um we like the gray or darker perspective i would it be okay would it okay so i know our time's getting a little tight here any other suggestions or thoughts uh we've zoom we've zoned in on the color i don't know what it'd be here to ask for a little more specific landscaping plan because right now if we want something i think it might be helpful to see exactly what the proposal would look like but um i don't know um if i i'm wondering if if the if the agreement is to keep what's there and plant it if we need to see another plan i would hate to fold up yeah well yeah i do too on the other hand you can there's planting and there's planting so unless somebody you know gets some help and putting something in that spot that has some significance in the sort of attractive and maybe last all maybe all year round what's there now looks pretty pathetic so um definitely we see potential so yeah we just encourage it okay and then you can always put pots of flowers around which would be very nice yeah i can do that even if it was seasonal summer things which would add a nice pop okay any other thoughts are we ready then to make a recommendation i just say overall i think it looks really nice and so you know it's exciting to think about this happening and um i think this rendering is a great uh goal for especially for the design overall but especially the colors and with the caveat of having that existing planter provide that extra landscaping and and hope hope that that gets like you said maintained year round in some capacity okay any other thoughts on that erica are you okay with it okay um so if i if i may let me just sort of yeah recap let me just go through this one second sorry um so everyone agreed that a mock-up of colors should be provided on the building wall itself and that you know the the color should be selected you know by the owner but in coordination with uh cune riddle and that um the selection and review of the colors of the building wall should be done in in collaboration with cune riddle um let's see here you know could there be an opportunity i i guess i have a question could there be an opportunity for board members to go take a peek at the sample of colors would board members be interested in something like that or not okay all right okay um let's see here maintain the planting area in in the center um of the pavement that we saw in the other screen um from the google map and um i know jan had suggested having planters along um i don't know the shows but along the patio um i didn't know if that was if the whole board was suggesting just the two walls that we were all talking about and you know lindsay's idea to take out some of the pavers and plant directly into the ground or you could set planters on top of it just something else besides the square got it okay frostfall yeah just on this on the front patio not the side patio right is that right yeah right i mean it's up to that if they want to do more okay and then i should say i don't know what it looks like these days but vertiches used to mean maintain plant things all down the side you can see that there's space for it on the outside um right it's been a long time it's been a long time but um there's lots of opportunities for for planting yeah okay and i think that was that was it yeah okay well i'll move that we approve the application based upon the notes that marine has taken as recommendations from us all right it's been moved a second okay erica seconded um all in let me do a roll call um erica all in favor i i uh lindsay i okay jam kathryn i okay so we um four to zero that we this is our recommendation yeah um okay anything else that we that we want to pass along at this time before we get ready to adjourn the meeting so when will you be opening that how long or when when yeah well um i hope to have the restaurant ready between two and three months okay very good to get it done i think america is a great area it means a spot with positive energy would be very careful on how you serve people uh not only not only students but everybody else that comes in and we are hoping to be that place because we do it on other restaurants that we are now established and the students coming back hopefully in the next few months hopefully everybody vaccinated i got my vaccine yesterday and i feel very positive that i can contaminate anyone if i get it that's that's great to to have and i think in a few months all the students i want to um go back to to being themselves and the town of amherst will come back to be the town of amherst and we hope to contribute to the economy there and to the culture we want to bring a nice and happy restaurant people can come to right you need it sounds great excited let's hope that was true i will have uh uh kina riddle uh brad help me on the project i haven't do me um two renders with two different shades of yellow and what i'll do is i'm gonna go ahead and paint six to eight feet by two or three and then we'll let you know by email when it's done and after he submits the renders you can take a drive by and take a look at it and then take a unanimous vote and let us know which one will you rather see and we'll go for that one okay very good we'll have a formal meeting the first night you open okay thank you all right very good thank you appreciate it thank you so marine uh do we have any uh public comments we do um uh hilda green bomb okay hilda i thought we're gonna call me i sent my comments to chris and it was basically my experiences with the rotary at triangle street and the trucks trying to avoid it at all costs and go down the jug handle that was one of my comment and then the other thing was about um signage because people who drive in this town don't understand the protocols for rotaries and i'm always getting cut off namely the person in the rotary has the right away and they can't cut them off so i mean things like that there needs to be signage if you're going to go that route but i really worry about the trucks that want to go north and south on 116 which is a highway north and south that um they won't be able to negotiate that circle i don't think this is off from there and that that runs into the same issue is trying to put a rotary or a roundabout in north dam or stopping the trucks can't get around it so i just wanted to make those couple of points and i send them the question all right very good thank you thanks hilda anybody else any other public comments um let's see here no all right okay any further next meeting is um um yeah so um about we will be holding a meeting for a for the mixed use building at located at 15 east pleasant street as well as looking at the temporary staging area in permanent use located at the adjacent lot where the pub is currently located that i'll be sending out a doodle pole and the submissions likely tomorrow and and those submissions will be found on the once the meeting is scheduled it'll be found on the town calendar for the d rb meeting posting as well as located on the d rb webpage under um board packets okay and probably what and going forward we're going to uh get more specific about using the design review board principles and standards which apparently are in the mail to um many of you i don't know jan if you have one of these this gold company i've i've got pulled up i was ready to go through that i mean we can do like we circle commission and go through point by point if it makes yeah yeah i i kept on um i i kept on reading the standards while uh we were while you were reviewing the restaurant and i was thinking about suggesting that you guys go through that but i i think that you covered you covered them yeah i think we covered it since this is not this is pretty much our building so there was a lot that didn't apply i mean yeah yeah but uh with the new building i think we'll have to so uh but uh just to point out though uh just to point out though um so standards that you did apply for the restaurant for example you know we're related to um let's see here at landscaping signs signs and uh architectural and site details such as colors and stuff so yeah um so yeah it's just uh i think we did yep in relation already yeah as a building it already been re approved before except for the color so i think we're okay on that so okay any other uh business before we uh i know we had some minutes in there maureen we did uh which was from the last meeting which was last month which would have been march i don't know folks that got a chance to read that read the draft well actually you did because they were based on the memos for the library the north hammers library and the bang center project for your corrections do we send have you given us then the final version i have okay i have sent that that's fine so um i don't know if you guys wanted to take a motion make a motion for the minutes i probably should find out what what meeting date that was let's see here i think was march eighth yeah march eighth which meet which of your emails were the minutes attached to i'm coming out remember seeing them um so uh it would be in the email that i i i announced that i will be posting meeting materials on the calendar and so there would have been a link to the town they were on that link about it yeah can you share can you share the screen oh sure yep um give me a minute haven't done our homework no that's okay uh of course we could do it next time if if um you know we're running in time we need to go yeah we'll do it next yeah that that's fine all right then by that time everybody will have a chance to uh uh review them okay you're getting good at that jam okay very good well we'll have a new mexican restaurant and that will be gold