 Ymgyrch yn ystod, Rym ni'n ystyried, mae'n gwneud i'r cyd-dweud yng Nghymru yn ddweud i'r ddweud— i'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r ddweud i Nigeria i ddweud i'r ddweud i ddweud. Rwy'n ddweud o'r ddweud o Google, Facebook a Twitter, mae'n oed o'r ddweud yng nghymru. Y Chlywf Taylor i'r ddweud i'r ddweud yng nghymru o Trefannau Nigeria i twinethol. Dwi'n ddweud y cyd-dweud o'r ddweud o'r contracts o ddweud. Felly mae'r ddweud i'r ddweud o'r ddweud i'r Ddweud i Nigeria i trefannu Lennan. Ychydig, mae'r Kingfair Fawr Fawr Fawr Fawr Fawr Mawr Fawr Fawr First things first, what's the justification for this move by the President or by the Vice President is the government empowered to widen its tax net to tech companies. The Vice President actually talked about the Finance Act saying it enables the government to do so, but is that a fact? This is a fact. Section 13, subsection 2 of the Communities Income Tax Act was amended by Finance Act of 2019. Section 4 of that Finance Act specifically amended it to include the income of digital tech giants to be taxed in Nigeria based on certain thresholds, and the thresholds are specified in the Act. So it's now legal for going to tax the profits of these tech giants. So tell us about the thresholds you are mentioning now. How do they do this if they don't have an office here? That's been the argument for a lot of people who have responded to this. If they don't have an office here, they don't sell an actual product here in Nigeria, how do you tax them and what's the threshold you've just mentioned? Well, the Act specifies that the thresholds for the non-residential companies will be gross turnover or income in excess of 25 million in a given year or it's equivalent in other currencies. Or if such company uses a Nigerian doing that is.ng or registers a website in Nigeria, or it has a purposeful and strong interaction with persons in Nigeria by customizing its platform to target persons in Nigeria. For example, by the crisis of products or services in Naira, those are the thresholds. Now the question is how will Nigeria now bring into its net the profit attributable to this Nigerian taxation? I believe that this is an area that the federal income revenue service has to work upon because some of these organizations, they don't have any fit presence in Nigeria and some of them they even deal directly with individuals in Nigeria without going through any government channel at all. So the FRS may need to enforce compliance and to do this they may need international consensus. Fortunately, Nigeria is one of the over 109 countries that signed the Common Reporting Standards whereby they exchange information with the other countries so as to get information regarding those people who are liable to Nigerian tax. So with this provision, with this amendment to tax law it will be easier for governments to identify these incomes but for collectability purpose they will need assistance of other countries to do this. Exactly, Mr Fashitor. Your last point really was where I was going to. Even if you've mentioned the fact that the Finance Act amended imparts the Nigerian government to expand its tax net and include tech giants, people who are providing digital services in the country but the issue would be first of all the finance act does not even specify how the government would go ahead to do this. So how can the federal government begin to ensure compliance? How can they enforce this new law? You know because you mentioned that Nigeria is a signatory to some of these international treaties but doesn't this sound easier than being done? Well we know that we are now in the era of knowledge and a lot of money is changing hands in this particular realm of economy. If government fails to recognise this it will be a disaster. A 1,000-mile journey starts with the first step. Yes, the enabling environment has not been created by amending the law to include this particular profit. Then secondly Nigeria has already signed a treaty with other countries to provide information to other countries regarding those people to pay taxes in those other countries. So with this exchange of information will be statutory provision then with infrastructures being put in place. I believe that Nigeria just like other advanced countries should be able to track down these profits attributable to Nigerian taxation but it will require cooperation with other countries as I said earlier. So it's currently not possible but what you're saying is that it can be done. So there has to be extra effort, there has to be soliciting of support from other countries and some of all of that. So Nigeria needs to go through all of that to simply be able to tax these companies. Do you agree that it's a step that we should be taking as a country? Because some of these tech giants that we are speaking about now have been extremely beneficial to the Nigerian people and they've created a space where the Nigerian people have been able to do business, have been able to solve crimes, have been able to gather information, have been able to get jobs. So do you think that this would be beneficial that the Nigerian government needs to go ahead and find ways to make them pay for the services that they've rendered to the Nigerian people? We believe is the right step in the right direction because the countries of origin of these tech giants they don't joke with taxation. They tax the incomes of these tech giants. It means that if such profits should have taxation in Nigeria there is possibility that such profits may be taxed in the countries. So that means that Nigeria, what also have been Nigerian income by way of taxation has been going to these countries, other countries. But we believe law in place and with the right tests to be taken by the government we believe that we will need to call back what belongs to Nigeria as its own income. There is no way we can continue depriving ourselves as to our right for income by way of taxation just by not anything. We need to take these other countries each proclamation that if any American company or tangible person is having accounts in your country you're supposed to disclose the details to them and if you fail to do so they will deny you certain benefits that you can derive from America. So why can't Nigeria also do the same thing? So it's not a punitive measure what is the right for income of the government and is a right step in the right direction. We only hope that government will acedrously pursue the government has made the law, they had signed relevant agreements then they should take practical steps to approach to engage these other countries to disclose the identities of these tech giants that are making incomes to Nigeria. Is rightful revenue belonging to Nigeria? So Mr Fasher, this revenue we're talking about, how do you think it will affect Nigeria's economy? Do you think we're going to get a lot from these tax or do you think this will drive out business? I doubt if it will drive out business in the sense that these tech giants are not new to taxation is a thing that you know that is operative in their own countries they are quite aware of it. Even some of them have been taking advantage of our low tax regime in Nigeria by deploying their resources to Nigeria where we are not taking note of our rightful income but with this approach I believe that these tech giants should see Nigeria as getting more serious with its economy and I believe that they should be able to support Nigeria to collect its rightful income so I don't see it as driving away businesses from Nigeria. It is in this part of the world that we are not so used to paying tax and we believe that is a burden but in other claims they see it as a way governance to be funded and it's a civic responsibility. So you're basically saying that rather than you know these companies reacting negatively you can foresee them basically complying with the government's order to pay taxes? For sure they are going to comply I believe that but it depends on the serious problems to pursue this to the logical conclusion because if government should relax they will continue their old ways. Is there a possibility of these tech giants now deciding to make a lot of their services or stop you know having free services here in Nigeria because of taxation if they decide that for you to get on those platforms you have to pay subscription fees doesn't that affect usage of those platforms here in Nigeria and reduce their availability of those platforms for Nigerians to use? Well I may not rule out possibility of increase in the in their prices especially those services there that the current level price they may likely now incorporate taxes so those services that were being given without taxes before but I believe that most of them they are already charging taxes they are already charging taxes it's only that they are not remitting it at all so they they are going to do the rightful by ensuring that they now account for those taxes they are collecting to Nigerian government. Okay so it's the right step. Okay so Mr Fisher I want you to bring in your perspectives on why this whole conversation is starting now because regarding tax and digital companies it's nothing new when the finance act was amended and we know we started having these conversations in 2019-2020 you know this has been law right but the issue was that it was not enforced so how you know do you think this issue with the president's tweets been deleted and the Twitter suspension of ban is now influencing you know this spur to action from the government? It has been a process you know this this finance act was signed in law in year 2020 and in that 2020 come the second quarter we had COVID-19 which affected governments all over the world but I believe that government has been putting things in place to ensure this implementation it's only a coincidence that it is this time that maybe Nigerian government is having issues with some of the service providers that the implementation is coming but it has been in the offering and government has been pursuing it and I don't see I don't see any reason why we should read meaning into why government has to up its revenue then you have to understand one thing Nigerian current economic problems tends from its very very low revenue yield Nigerian revenue is very very low very very low and this is due to revenue leakage that Nigerian government is experiencing. Nigeria is not tapping into all its resources of revenue and taxidist tech giants is one of the huge source of revenue for government so Nigerian government is waking up to its responsibilities and it requires support from everywhere meaning Nigerians and I believe that these tech giants they need to support Nigerian government in this direction. I would agree with you on that one you know how Nigerians need to support their government with you know when they are trying to improve on their revenue generation there's many other sectors of government that need to also get you know better support in order to improve or find ways that we can make money from them mineral resources tourism our film industry there's so much more that you know Nigeria can make money from agriculture also but we don't speak enough about leakages of government funds you just mentioned it now um if the Nigerian government fails to block leakages of funds you know that have continued to just you know miss out on being sent to government um how does this in any way improve on our earnings because we are going to continue to lose money if we don't block these leakages and as we continue to tax left right and center we still would not see the effects of these new levels of taxation if we don't block those leakages so how come we don't seem to be taking that seriously in any way I think Nigeria government doesn't have choice now to than to block those leakages why is Nigeria just waking up to realize that they need to generate more revenue than is generating because oil price has really gone down we are experiencing oil glots so what used to be the major source of government revenue is no longer serving as its major source but it has gone to the to the background and Nigeria still has to carry out its functions through its revenue so it fails to block the the leakages it will serve in a fix so I believe that government will surely block the leakages then they will need to expand the tax base and this tax of tax giants happens to be one of the means of expanding its tax base so if it blocks its new leakages and tax those areas that have to be taxed then we will observe that revenue yield will improve they have enough money to prosecute all the government projects okay well if and when thank you very much for Lucio Fashota for joining us and for speaking with us this morning and of course sharing your thoughts with regards taxation we look forward to other conversations with you thank you just my pleasure thank you wow so that was an interesting perspective there from the former president of the chattered Institute of Taxation there because remember when this the government announced the sweeter suspension ban many Nigerians were not happy about it they say this is a platform that has helped Nigerians in a lot of ways why is the government suspending it but this angle of taxation is totally different we're talking about avenues to increase our revenue and he's explained that the government really has been slacking in this regard and the vice president also talked about how Nigeria's tax rates are one of the lowest in the world so we need to maybe even expand that you look at countries like the US they generate about 55 million dollars yearly in digital services tax so these countries tax their people like he mentioned these digital tech giants are used to taxation in their home countries and that they have actually been exploiting these are the words of Mr Fashota on that these tech companies have been exploiting the tax leniency in Nigeria and they have to switch up as the government is not to so great perspectives conversations that should continue as we go on remember it's a plus CV Africa Facebook Instagram and of course our YouTube channel um so yes that's where we droid today yes uh the news is up at nine o'clock thanks for staying with us all through the program I am a saugi og bawan and I am a netta philix bye