 The implementation of the Lagos panel report is a sacred duty for San Olu, says Chidi Odinkalu, as Lagos rejects panel's casualty figure. And Babajide San Olu initiates a peace walk, a spot of efforts to ensure harmony in this state. For this, it's plus politics, I am Mary Anacorn. Former Chairman of the National Human Rights Commission Professor Chidi Odinkalu has stated that the implementation of the report from the Lagos-Ensar's Judicial Panel of Inquiry is a sacred duty for Babajide San Olu. Also, the Lagos state government has rejected the resolution of the Judicial Panel of Inquiry stating that no fewer than nine persons lost their lives when armed soldiers stormed the Lekitogate to disperse Ensar's protesters on October 20, 2020. Well, joining us to discuss this is a legal practitioner, Chidi Odinkalu. Thank you very much, Baris Odinkalu for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure being here. Great. I know that you must have perused through the pages of the white paper because it's been made public. A lot of people have copies of it. What was the first thing that came to mind when you saw the white paper? You know, the white paper is the response of the government through the reports of the Judicial Inquiry Panel. And there were divided expectations. Some expected that, okay, if Lagos state has been bold enough to present these reports, which indicted the governments and probably described what many have held as what happened in the Lekitogate on 20th of October, 2020, that the white people should go ahead to establish those findings. And some were expecting that perhaps the government would like to cover up some of the elements of the report, you know. And that sprang from those who monitored what appeared to be like an intimidating response from the federal government. Recall that if Honorable Minister of Information and Culture, Chief Lai Mohame, said it was the report that was detailed by Moonlight, and of course, the Minister of State for Labor, Pestos K. M. Osunabu, of Nigeria, also came out to say that the state's trying to prove some, the military and police is a negat. So if you look at that background, you may expect that the white people may not reflect some of the reports of the, and the critical report here is the description of what happened at the Lekitogate on the 20th of October, 2020, as a massacre. And the report for that stated that at least 46 unarmed protesters were either shot dead, injured with bullets or assaulted by security forces, you know. And what the white people is admitting now is that only one person died. On the 21st of October, 2020, and there was nothing to establish that the death resulted from gunshot from the military. But having said that also, it's been admitted that there were gun wounds. And, you know, it's so difficult to have gun wounds without having people die, you know. And this is where we are right now. And the government is calling for peace. You know also that the governor invited some of the actors during the NSAS protests to come and embark on a peace war. Before we get to that part, before we get to that part, let's look at some of the, you know, the things that are in this particular white paper. Because I listened to the attorney general of the state, and he was on, I think, a rice TV this morning trying to debunk, you know, what was in the white paper. So I'm going to ask you a very straight question for someone who's been studying what the panel has done, and now the recommendations on the white paper. Why do you think that the government seems not to agree with the number of people that the panel has put forward as a result of the fact that they made findings? They're saying that it's just one person. They countered it, saying that the recommendation is not acceptable to Lagos state government for the following reasons. I'll give you. They said the finding of the JPI at page 288 paragraph M is that the evidence of the pathologist, Professor Obafanwa, that only three bodies that they conducted post-mortem examination on were from Leckie, and only one had gunshots injury, and this was not debunked. So I'm thinking to myself, for those who, because there were protests all over Lagos, there were protests on the mainland and, of course, on the island, could they have brought somebody from, let's say, all the way from mile three to Reddington to treat his gunshot wounds. Don't forget, every single place was blocked. Is there a possibility that someone who was shot on the mainland was brought to an island hospital and treated of gunshot wounds? You know, we need to go through the value chain of this end-stars-protest-crisis management. Recall that when it happened, right from that 28th October 2020, there were live streaming of what was going on there, lights or gunshots, screaming, and obviously we have not denied the fact that these harmless citizens, these defenseless citizens, were singing the national anthem. They were waving the Nigerian flag, and suddenly the gunshots came hitting them, and at the point it was argued that what CNN presented was trying to doctor some issues, you know, and again, we came all by say, okay, maybe they use blank bullets. At a time, there was an attempt to even deny that the military was there, but when you saw the IT monitoring presentation that were presented and it became, you know, important to try and manage that crisis. And I think that is what the government has tried to do. But having said that also, it has become difficult to establish that someone died. And you know the position of the law, particularly when it comes to the criminal justice value chain, you must prove the allegations beyond all these naval doubts. And I think that is what is playing out here now. And then don't forget that the reports that leaked indicted the state governor, the legacy governor, by saying he invited the military, he allowed the military to come in. And some have said what did the military come to do to disperse the protesters? Was it in a peaceful manner? Because if you look at the fundamental human rights as recognized universally, you have right to life, right to dignity, right to personal liberty, right to fair hearing, right to privacy, right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, freedom of expression. In fact, the government was expected to protect the protesters. So now that that happened, you must now go ahead in time. If the government admits that there was a massacre at the Lekitul Gate on the 28th of October 2020, our president and those who released the military and the police to go and attack the peaceful protesters, they find themselves in jail when they leave office. Because as a governor, a president, you have immunity in the international criminal court. So you must expect that this would be practically managed to minimize the impact on the players. And one of the recommendations of the panel was that the federal government should make an open apology to the victims. So here we are now. We are saying, okay, only one person died. We cannot even link that death to the intervention of the military and the police. But like I said earlier, we have not been able to debunk the fact or the government has not been able to debunk the fact that there were gun wounds and that there was police brutality. So you can see police brutality now being used to quell a peaceful protest against police brutality. So it's a very difficult one. But going down the path of history, I think it may be characteristic in nature. I recall that in Lagos State at the time, that should be the port of June 1996, Alajia Pidura Tabula was killed by unknown gunmen. And we covered it up until the likes of Rogers, this man that went to jail featured as state actors who played prominent roles in the assassinations that took place in Lagos State then. So here we are. And don't forget also, when it comes to the issue of government reports and stuff like that, at the point in time in this country, the fierce, the most credible, the most transparent election, hope 93, was annulled by the head of state who later in time was compelled to say he didn't do it alone. But genuine reasons in court were given for the annulment of that result. Don't forget also that at the Oputa panel, there were evidences given to how Chief M. K. O'Abiola died. So what have we done with all this? So it's a matter of, for us in public relations, it's a reactive way of managing a crisis. But having said that, I'm curious, just a second, I'm curious, is the official position of the government. Okay, all I've heard in all that you've been saying since we started, it seems you're trying to say that the government, especially the government of Lagos State, is trying to wiggle its way out of, you know, the repercussion or the repercussionary effect of the truth that is behind this report. But then, there are those who argue that the truth is relative and when facts and truths are put side by side, the facts are actually always over, overway, you know, in terms of, you know, evidences that are brought forth. And you made mention to that. So I want to ask again, do you think the Lagos State government is trying to wiggle its way out of this? And one way or the other trying to save face, including that of the federal government, is there undue pressure, is there undue pressure from the federal government to kill this? I'm not holding grieve for the Lagos State government, but I must say this is a very difficult situation for the state to handle. Like I said, if the state government came out to say that there was a massacre at the Lekitul Gate, it's not only the governor himself that may be queried when he leaves office and is no longer under the shadow of immunity. The president and commander in chief of the armed forces that gave direction, whether through the chief of army staff or through the general police, for that intervention on the 20th of October 2020 are likely to find themselves in the international criminal court. Don't forget that we have some West African president that you recall the case of Charles Taylor, but then we have not been able to successfully establish that there are no infractions of human rights. So that is a key issue now. Like I said, no one is saying now that there was not use of brutal force that night. No one is saying there are no gun wounds. What we are saying now is that, okay, this but you claimed a night persons died, but we are admitting that only one person died. And even that cops cannot be linked to the intervention of the military and the police. The big question now, like you brilliantly asked, is that did anybody impose that cops to that place? And don't forget also, as part of the drama we have witnessed here, at the time the Honorable Minister of Works discovered a camera suddenly at the venue. Now he's telling the journalists, don't ask me what happens to that camera. We also got a report that the LCC that manages the tool gate, it tried to manipulate the recorded eclipse. So while you put all this together, you may want to probably move in the direction of those who think there is an attempt to cover up. But then the issues with answers, protests are still there. Police brutality, what are we going to do to ensure that we have a police system that runs in line with the established vision and mission of facilitating an enabling environment for sustainable development. And who are friends of the people who play by the rules? And how do we come to the point where the citizens can trust the government? How do we come to the point where we can now say the primary purpose of government, which is the security and the welfare of the people, have been delivered upon by the constituted authority mandated to deliver. So these are several issues. Now, so I do not at this point envy the executive governor of legal state, Babajidis Honolulu, in managing this crisis. So like I said, we all had the majority of us witness the response of the federal government. The president himself came out to say, okay, we've gotten the report from legal state, we have to wait for the other state. The minister of information came out to say it's still by moonlight. The minister of state for labor came out to say that it was illegal. So when you look at all those frantic efforts, some may conclude that those were gestures, you know, a built up to intimidate the legal state. And when you talk about the white paper, the white paper should be the former report from the government, even though the government set up the judicial panel. They are the ones to say we have received your reports, no matter whatever number of reports that you have given on to us. And these are the ones we agree with. So and that's why the governor is, I think it's making reference to the closure of this matter, but you may close on the report, but can we claim to have closed on the issues that are plaguing society? That's what I'm still struggling with. I'm still struggling with if the government is saying that nobody really died or the person, the only cops, according to them that they have been able to recognize factually may not have really died at the leaky toll. Does it make it's right in any way what has happened? Don't forget the army was invited into a policing issue. An issue was that people were talking about the injustices that have been messaged out on innocent Nigerians by police, the high handedness of police. And then the army was introduced into a place where innocent people who had no guns, they were harmless, they were just protesting. Again, you're saying that people did not die. Does it mean that the people who were injured, people who were shot at, those who were involved in that stampede are not going to get justice? Is this what the legacy government is saying? And saying that coming for a closure of this case, I'm trying to understand, does this not make mockery of the whole, the whole process went from the panel that was instituted up until now? Does it not just totally make a mess of it? You know, what wonderful question there, and I may want to ask you a question, what came out of the National Confirming of 2014 with all the millions that were spent on it? So that's the big deal. And some of the opinion now that if you constituted a panel that sat for one year, admitted evidences from people listening to, listening to witnesses, to key stakeholders, and came up with this report. And you are now saying that there were so many discrepancies. And I agree with the fact that there may be discrepancies. When you have a matter in court, and you are invited to come and listen to the judgment of the court. The court will not rule out all the arguments in that matter. The court will rule out the specifics, considerations, and decisions. So the government is saying now, you've given an assignment, you've brought your report, or this is what we are willing to accept. And going forward, you may be inviting some personalities to come and serve the government and the decline, which has already happened now. You, I mean, we witness how the governor has invited files and some stakeholders during the protests to come for a peace war. And the response is that you have to work alone, Mr. Governor, because for many, the driving force behind peace is justice. So people are now saying, is this justice? And talking about justice like you requested, there are several levels of justice, justice within the human community, and justice with God. I recall that in Genesis chapter four, Genesis chapter four, verse one to 18, that King rose up to kill his brother, Abel. Nobody saw him. And then God came to him to say, hey, what did you do? And then he had his excuses for the blood of Abel, pride, from where it was laid. So putting all these reports together, I think those who have conscience and those who participated actively on that gory night of 28th of October 2020 should be waiting that if man fails to pin them to what they have done, God will ask them when they step out of the universe. And for that society, largely, we are still yearning for justice. And if you read section 17 of the Nigerian Constitution in 1999 as a mandate, it says that the platform of our coexistence shall be that of justice or freedom of equity. So can we have that justice? Can we have a society where we do not need to jump up and protest and, you know, shout and scream for the right things to be done? And even when we are compelled to protest demanding for the right things to be done, that we do that under a safe environment and such a peaceful movement is not encountered with brutal force. And that is where we are right now. Quickly, before we wrap up, because we're almost out of time, I want to quote the, you know, some of the recommendations or one that really stuck out for me in terms of getting justice for the people. The JPI's report, Causing Them, it stated that the panel recommended disciplinary actions to the following officers. I'd like to call their names, Lieutenant Colonel S. O'Bello, Major General Godwin O'Mello, who refused to honor summons to the panel in order to frustrate the investigation. Now, of course, there are other disciplinary measures that were asked to be meted out to the military officers deployed to dispense protesters at the Lekitogid and to the federal government and the National Economic Council. This is what the Lagos State paper read, the white paper. It said, and I quote, the Lagos State government notes that it will forward this recommendation to the federal government, the National Economic Council and the Nigerian Army for their consideration. All officers excluding Major General O'Matter and men of the Nigerian Army that were deployed to the Lekitogid on October 20 of 2020 should be made to face appropriate disciplinary action stripped of their status and dismissed as they are not fit and proper to serve in any public or security service to the nation. But I'm wondering how this is going to happen if already they're discrediting a lot of things and pointing to discrepancies. Is this really ever going to happen, Bayes, and the fact that the Army has to consider it? You know, from the from the report in the white paper, about 14 recommendations have been classified as being outside the jurisdiction of the state. And I think that is one of them. And that is where Festos Kiamo, senior advocate of Nigeria, may be right that you don't have at the state level the prerogative to question the activities or, you know, discipline, the military and the police. But let me read this out. This Lieutenant Colonel Bello, who is fingered as being a key player in the in what happened at the Lekitogid on the 28th of October 2020, has, you know, has his a promotion in place, you know, it's quite interesting. I think there should be a report that the Army Council met on 28th of October to approve the promotion of officers. And he's one of the beneficiaries. And let me take us back, wonderful Nigerians and our lovely audience to what happened with Wadume, the kingpin kidnapper suspect, the Nigerian policeman trained when to arrest. And they were relayed by the military. And even though reportedly the policeman tried to introduce themselves, they were killed. Some of them were killed by the soldiers. And the soldiers took this suspect away, released him. And now they have not even been able to come for effective prosecution, because the military claims that they are still going through material processes and whatever. So when you talk about justice, the greatest summary we have as lawyers is that justice should not only be done, but clearly seem to have been done. Like I said earlier, those who are known, the June 12 election, they know themselves. Nigerians are still asking who killed the legua. Nigerians are still asking who killed Ebola again. Nigerians are still asking several questions. But then if it's difficult to get justice with man, it is definitely certain that the justice of God be revealed. By and large, we need a society where we can rejoice and be free and be proud to say these are a great nation. And may I advise the government, you need the trust capital to excel in office. And right now, I think we are building off walls, rather than creating that trust capital. It's becoming difficult for many to trust their government to do what is right. Well, I want to thank you. Judeo Logo is a legal practitioner. Thank you very much for speaking on this issue. Well, what is left to be done remains to be seen. Thank you so much. Thank you. God bless Nigeria. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a quick break. And when we return, Govna Babajideh Sanwarlu initiates a peace walk of harmony in Lagos state. Well, we'll get to talk about this after this.