 Yn y gallwn hyn o adrwm hyfforddiol amser. Rwy'n eich ddweud o adrwm hyfforddiol arweithio cymrydu. Yn y gallwn hyfforddiol arweithio amllwyr heddiw ddiw ar gyfer gyffredinol wedi bodiaeth y cyllid y Ddupl Cymru. Yn y cyfnod o hyd y ddweud i enw i'r hollidad y ddweud o gyrraff. Rydym wedi digwydd ar y ddweud i enw i'r holliddau ac o ddweud aeth ei bod nhw'n dw i'r hoffod am ddweud i enw i'r holliddau'r hollidd. neu ydy'r unionda, oedd yn ddiolch i'r uniondo grwp yn ei bach o'i bywdi nhw'n gwybod yma, nhw'n cael ei bobo trwyddon o gyfanonol. Rwyfwn i'n gofo'r r chamberfyniadol a'r gwmplwch o'r mediau. Rwyf yn ôl hon, rwyf yn cael ei uniondo grwp. Fy hynny yn cyfathasol, yr oedd yn cydnod gyda'r uniondo grwp, Felly, we have an online form where if something happens in the community that people want support with... ...a conflict or an issue, they can log on to the report page... ...and feel the sender report through directly to us. We meet weekly. To meet the community as we go forward. The people active in this programme, is worth the money we need. … yapu'r sgolwyddon yn gweinidol. Mae gennym Eu pause, … mae'r pwyddoedd yn ei shawdd. Mae gennym eich gwaith y cael y bydd i Cael y cwylionedd… … iddyn nhw, ond mae'r bwysig yn ddifftrasol. Mae gennym Eu pause i'r bwysig, a fyddwn i'r bwysig ar gyfer eu rheidau. Yn momento, oes iddyn nhw, mae'n bwysig yn ei bod chi'n gweld i'r gwaith sydd gennym… … a yna gweinidol, i mi'n gweinidol… Felly mae'r unedden trio'You may now about an incident that happened in Munich recently for example and that was about that required an incident attention. Now again, being at different time zones we were able to deliver that pretty much throughout. We help to defuse tense situations when those reports come in or when someone gets in touch with us and they try to initially defuse those situations and then work with the people involved to mediate and arbitrate those disputes. We also have, aside from the day to day the number of tools we've developed and resources we have the code of conduct itself of course Alan and process . And over the years we've introduced a number of other processes to try and help diffuse difficult situations. We finally also do the Llan Rug Shital Award yw'r award sy'n gwybod yw'r gwaith yn ymlaen i'r cymunedau, a mae'n adeiladu iawn a'r American DrupalCon, y US DrupalCon. Yn amser, yna ymlaen i chi? Mae'r rhan o'r eich cyfnod yn drwp wleidio, mae'n gweithio bod yw ffawr yn ein cwysig yn bwysig fel y cyfnod ddau i ymwybod. Mae'n gweld eu bod yw'r cyflodau cyflodau cyflodau cyflodau, ac mae'n meddwl am y pwysig o'r ffawr yn ei gwirionedd. Mae'n i'n dweud yn ddim ymweld i gydag yma hwn. Mae'n i'n ddim yn ei ddweud i'r ffawr yn ymwybod i'r proses. Mae'n ddweud i'r ffawr yn ymweld i'r ffawr. There was an issue que, sometimes at events in various different areas of the Drupal community. I was frustrating with the amount of time it took to review patches, project applications and the like. So what did this mean? This meant that there was a real decline in contributing morale. It wasn't until the kind of Drupal eight parties started kicking off that there was actually a really difficult feeling in the community Tynodd yn cymryd ddisgw Crush? A dyna targedd yw'r ddaf, ydych chi'n tynnu fathlei. Er y cyfrinfio mor cyfrindol, rysyn ni'n weithio'r cyfrindol dioledig. A dyna allan networks o'r cyfrindol i'r cyfrindol i'r cyfrindol i'r ystafell, mae mae'r aeith yw gwirioneddau'r Llanee. Mae'r llanee'r llanieddau, rydyn ni'n golygu'r llanieddau, ond os ydw i'r llanieddau yr greu oedd. Ond, nid yn unig relwadodd fel y bydddech chi'n dweud yna wneud y byddwch surio, sawi'r ddysgrifennu â'r wyf ddiwrnod ymlaen i gyllidodd gyda chi wedi wneud sio wedi y bydd o'r hyn o ddarliwau i ddiwysu'r newid oherwydd. Yn cymryd yma, rydyn ni bob galle cael y byddwn ni ddim iddo i dwi'r gilydd iddyn nhw, a chydydd hynny ower, fel ydych chi'n gwybod yr Oedden drwysus ym 2014 mewn gwelgaf drwysus, Ym 100 ysgrifennu sydd wedi gweld yn gwybod yn cael y dyma hwnnw. Ond y dyma'r ysgrifennu sy'n meddwl ar y proses ynglynethol. Ond y bobl yma yma yw unrhyw, ymweld yn croeswyd a ffordd o'r blynedd. Ymgyrch i'r bobl o'r byd yn ymgyrch. Mae'r gweithio ddod yn ymdyn nhw yma, rydyn ni'n gweithio'r byd yn cyfnod. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'r byd yn ymgyrch, rydyn ni'n gweithio'r byd yn ymddun nhw. I don't know where to start contributing so you know it's a frustration about the time that things take and how easy it is to actually access the community and contribute to the community. So contributing to Drupal can be slow, complex and time consuming and many people don't have the time or the patience to do it. This was the overriding outcome that we discovered and wanted to do something about. This is something that also came out of Jesus' work and the development of the Drupal.org personars in 2014. It just gives you an idea of how the current distribution of the Drupal community is. We've got a very small master at the top and then experts and skills and it comes down in a very sharp pyramid format. This on the right is more how we'd like it to be. We've got more people moving up the scale up into the master area. There's various reasons as to why that area is so small, most of them we've mentioned already. What we've found is that as you get further up people start to drop off faster and faster. Just to mention this is if you've got any questions or anything you want to put forward. Obviously we'll have plenty of time for questions at the end but if you do want to ask anything more we'll go through. This hasn't come out of specific statistics so it's much more self-defining. It was something that came out of the personars. Also if you look at the statistics on Drupal.org in terms of contribution you tend to find there's a very small number of people doing the vast majority of the work. I don't think that's only because of time available and some of the things we'll go into in a minute. But also just because of the fact that even with masters you have some people who contribute their entire time because they're paid to do it for example. So it's a pattern rather than a science if you see what I mean. But it's definitely one that's seen continue. I think that as I say that the people who tend to or who visibly leave the community would generally be in those top two areas. A lot of that we think is to do with burnout and to do with how they're feeling about the project let's say rather than something about the code as it were. But there's more statistics to back that up as we go along. So what can we as a community do to help to improve the experience of contributing to Drupal for everyone? There's no quick fixes here. We haven't got the magic bullet and we're absolutely open to ideas and what have you. But we go through some of the information that we did. So we looked at another survey because we love surveys. But we also reached out to a lot of people. So when we did the survey survey we very we targeted Drupal a core developers at corn country of developers site. And asked people if they would be willing to speak to us as well. And we did a large number of interviews following the survey. So it's not just data from a survey but also discussion. This is a we had a hundred nine responses. As I say this was kind of September around Drupal corn New Orleans. And for about two months after that we had the survey open. We got a hundred nine responses. The gender breakdown 86% male 10% female. In terms of countries represented. I've got the figures here actually. It wasn't entirely representative of the Drupal community. So at least in terms of Drupal.org data. In the survey there was 39% from the US while the Drupal.org analytics are closer to 21%. And 6% were from India while on Drupal.org it's around 12% of the entire Drupal.org is India. So it's not entirely representative but but it was a decent decent snapshot. And again it was it was people from those who were generally contributing heavily. How long have you been contributing to the Drupal project? So over half the people who we spoke to on the survey have been contributing to Drupal for over five years. So it's a you know a lot of long term contributors on there. Very few in less than a year. And one of the things that we're wary of is that if again it was a very small cross section. But if this is representative of the community. Then it's a little bit worrying how small amount of new contributors that there actually are. And some of the questions have to be why aren't those people. Why isn't there more of those people joining. How many hours per week do you spend contributing to the Drupal project on average? There's some interesting stats there but more than half of the respondents spend less than four hours a week contributing to Drupal. But then you have 28.5% that's spending five to ten hours a week. Now when you bear in mind this is most often on top of the day to day that's a considerable amount. And then you've got the small percentages of 21 to 40 and more than 40 hours. And obviously as we said most of those people are probably people who are being paid effectively to spend that 40 hours a week. Doing it which not many companies do at this stage. How did you contribute to Drupal 8? So again you might not be able to read those very well. The top one there is I helped write code for a contributed module or a theme. And the second one is I helped write code for Drupal core. So obviously the two biggest is writing code. I helped provide Drupal community support. I helped write or edit Drupal documentation. I helped with Drupal information architecture design and or UX. And I did not contribute to Drupal 8 in any way. So there's a decent range of contributors there. And the Drupal community support aspect we're talking about there in terms of project management, organising sprints, different events, camps, that kind of thing. So there's a decent spread of the different types of contribution that people do for Drupal 8. So this is where we get into the meat of what people fed back. And you can see that 40% of people felt like they experienced burnout during the development of Drupal 8. That's a huge amount. I mean it's nearly half the amount of people are feeling experiencing burnout during the process. So there's something that needs to be addressed there. We've got a few quotes here. Slow progress, bike shedding, feeling over my head. Some of these you might recognise. They're not attributed to people, but I'm sure many people will have felt them. Lots to do before deadlines, contributing on top of a full working day. Development cycle is way too long. There's always more to do and no defined end point. Lack of clear goals, very complex code base, uncertain and flexible deadlines, eg feature freeze and difficult to move large patches forward, very hard to find qualified reviewers and collaborators. You can see that the feedback we were getting was very consistent with what we kind of already knew from the other surveys. Very difficult to get patches reviewed, inconsistent messages about deadlines and policies and inconsistent application of policies. It feels like wherever the rules are, they only apply to some people or some patches. Those were representative of the large range of responses that we got. So during the Drupal 8 development cycle, did you experience or observe conflict in the Drupal, ISUQs, IRC, et cetera? This is even bigger. This is 60% of people that said that they've observed conflict. Conflict is a natural thing in a community such as ours, particularly when the main method of communication is tech space. But again, it's a relatively alarming scale. When we spoke to those 40%, most people felt that it was the conflict side of things that was actually leading to the burnout. So that 60% of people who were experiencing the conflict were also very reflective of the 40% that were burning out. And did you feel you were able to get received non-technical support from others during the Drupal 8 development cycle? So there was 72.5% that said yes. Most of the things that we looked at so far are relatively negative. Over three quarters of people said that they were able to receive non-technical support from others. Mostly from other contributors in the ISUQs, from IRC and in-person events. There was a small number of people who said that they got support from their work colleagues or family or friends. So there's conflict, but there's people around to support in that conflict as well. That's one of the slightly more positive aspects of what we did. Do you feel that there's any non-technical barriers to communication in a Drupal contributor community? It's around 50% of people said yes. 48.6% of people said no. We'll come onto some of my recommendations sooner. We've worked on with other people to hopefully deal with some of these issues. So it's not all misery and gloom. But yeah, 50% of people saying that there are non-technical barriers to communicating. So some more quotes that came from people. It feels like there's superstars and then there's everyone else. This is quite a common thing that comes out. And again I think it's to do a lot with that pyramid. You've got your small number of people at the top and they're considered to be the superstars. Although I think a lot of the time that's perception rather than reality. And it's hard to feel encouraged to help out with the bigger initiatives in development. Mostly perception, the perception that people working on core are better than or more important than others. Or that they're treated differently than other contributors. Most of our communication is text-based and not real-time. For many contributors it's non-native language. I think this is one that came up quite a lot as well. Particularly from people who English wasn't their main native language. The text-based and not how in English is your first language makes it very, very difficult to communicate in a productive way. So this leads to a lot of possibility for misunderstanding. Documentation is hard to discover. We all know that's improving but it's still in a scene. So do you feel that the experience of contributing to Drupal could be improved by organisational change? So there's an overwhelming response there of over 60% that say with some organisational change we could improve that process. Some examples, more leadership from the top, not necessarily a dictator. It's controversial but ideas vetted early at the top then worked out by the community as a whole. Empowerment of initiative leads to make decisions in order to move work forward. We need more transparency and it's really grown well beyond this idea of benevolent leader making the hard calls. I'm not sure how to change that but it has to include more open democracy and some new blood. A mentor should have a more important presence in the community. The process to approve sandbox projects as full projects needs to be much leaner. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's too difficult to have a project approved. So here's another bit of slightly good news. How likely do you need to contribute to the future versions of Drupal based on your experience contributing through Drupal 8? We've been spending most of this PowerPoint talking about the misery. But there is a silver lining in the fact that over three quarters of the people said that they will be extremely likely to contribute to future versions of Drupal based on their experience contributing to Drupal 8. So again, while there's a lot of negative things going on, there's still a very strong feeling of community and a very strong feeling of loyalty to the project. What's the number one technical change that you feel should be made to improve the Drupal contributor experience? So this was an open question, hence why there's no graph there. So we've got a few of the feedbacks. Lower entry barrier. By making it easier to contribute modules. Fixed project application review process. That's quite a theme going on here. Great acknowledgement of non-code contributions. There is already work going on in a number of these, as I'm sure you'll know. But we need to improve our tools for contrib or at least at the GitHub level. More detailed roadmaps so potential contributors can see where they can jump in and out of the coming NSUQ. A feminist new world order. So we took all this information. We've processed it. We've spoken with a wide range of people, as I said, after the survey. We've come up with a few recommendations, but as I said before, we're very, very keen on other ideas and other contributions that people want to make in terms of how we contribute. Because it's a big one. It's a big one in terms of the people leaving the community. It's a big one in terms of people coming into the community. We're very open to how, whether it be the CWG or through different parts of the community, we can improve these things. But there's a few recommendations from our side. Streamline the review process. I think this is a kind of a no brainer, but not the easiest thing to do in the world. Streamline the review process by empowering and enabling more people to conduct reviews. So there's lots of people, sorry, lots of people developing modules that just aren't getting through and that's just creating a massive amount of frustration. And pretty much everyone we've spoken to about this are on board with the DA and various others are doing work on this as we speak to make the process more transparent. To avoid a period of favoritism. To make it easier for reviewers to find unreviewed projects. And to make it easier for reviewers to indicate their approval. We've found examples, I think, where it was sometimes taking up to potentially over a year for modules to get pushed through. And that's, you know, if you're looking for new contributors and you're looking for the community to grow, that's not welcoming and it's not useful. So as to say, our understanding is that people are really on board with this. And it's outside of the CWG's ability to make this happen, but this has been passed on to those that can. And obviously the more that it's supported and welcomed from the community, the more likely it is to happen. Improve your communication. So I don't think this might just to start, but I don't think the Slack channel has maybe just started when we did this. But not relying so heavily on IRC, especially for new contributors. IRC for the CWG is a breeding ground for both ends of the community. You have some of the best help that goes on, some of the most active troubleshooting with new members who come to the community. But you also have people coming in there just being turned off straight away by some of the, whether it's banter or it's just people too busy to be able to help with things. So IRC's been brought time and time again. Mixing asynchronous and real-time channels. So one of the things I think is bad about the scene is there are apparently lots and lots and lots of people joining the channels. 200 will be a normal set. And yet apparently, you can see the list and there apparently no criticism. And I think if we could just get the message off, unless you're entitled to do something, don't actually do it. Don't sit there doing nothing or something like that. The appearance of 200, 300 people in a channel and when somebody comes in and says, oh, it comes in one hell and you know what, big silence. It's really of putting, I think. Yeah, no, it's interesting you mentioned it. I think that also what then happens when we spoke into some of the more prolific contributors, is that when people think that the general room isn't listening, they start directly targeting and pinging the top contributors. And so they find they're constantly getting hit with the questions directly as well. So, I mean, in that sense, it would make sense. I'm not sure how to deal with that because obviously part of the value of IRC for the people who are using it is to be there available when people need them rather than just there for. And I'm not sure, I don't use it enough, but I'm not sure how the, if there's going to be this kind of almost transition from IRC. I think most people, I think there's a lot of people who just won't make that transition from IRC to Slack. I think Slack is a slightly better format because of the fact there's more ability to, there's more feedback mechanisms and things like that that make it a little bit better. But either way, it's still text-based communication and effectively our main recommendation for that is to do more face-to-face and voice-to-voice communication. We've got that next in terms of the mixing the real-time channels with also having regular hangouts, having regular meetings. And I think if you look at most of the initiatives and the initiative leaves these days, that's what they started to do more of. And using the IRCs and the Slack is just kind of the follow-up and the backup processes. But definitely think that more, more human communication channels is a good way forward. Obviously people only have so much time with Slack or Skype, whatever, you can ping people and then leave it and get off to other things. But yeah, I'm not quite sure how you would deal with that just on the fact that people are wanting to be contactable by other developers, for example. It's probably about the rooms themselves. I think maybe it's a thing about IRC and maybe using Slack as normal thing will be actually better. It's a sign of Slack being the room. And not actually the engaging version. The room will get something a bit of a problem. Yeah, I've had on the app channel quite often pings you. Then this conflict comes up because is that really worthwhile to be able to ping the entire channel? It's unending, but yeah. Gladly though, it's not the kind of things that comes up. It's raised the point that the appearance of coming into this room by 200 people here, and you stand at the front and say, can anyone help? And everyone said, and it's like, it's not very friendly, is it? Yeah, so we've got there also understanding and appreciating the English is not everyone's first language. This is a huge one that we deal with in day-to-day CWG stuff that people put things across and it's considered kind of rude or abrasive, and it's often just that that person doesn't speak very strong English. So it's a tricky one, particularly in the real time, in the Slack in the IRCs, because then it can feel very abrasive. But we need to take that into account. It's a global community and we have to... We did that in terms of support. For instance, it's a complaint that's been sent out to the courts. You know, the court reported to me that I had to review it, and actually it was just the person who was like, you know, in Vietnam, and with English was brilliant. We just pitched it, moved with the wrong words, which has been that person, and it's a difficult one. It is. No, it's very difficult. And it's also a difficult one. When we've had reports about it, it's a very difficult one to almost investigate, because you don't want to make assumptions about someone's level of English before you've actually kind of spent time talking to them. We've also got make it easier for newcomers to know where to go to connect with other contributors. I think Drupal.org is, again, has improved. There's regular improvement going on, but in terms of pointing people in the right direction of the places where they can get help, it's still a bit... It's still very lax. I don't think, for example, that Slack's mentioned on there yet. It takes a long time for those kind of things to go in there. So we want to make it easier for newcomers to know where to connect with other contributors. You've seen the forum discussions going on lately, but the DA don't have time to invest in the forum. People who manage the forum don't want it to move somewhere else. They want investment in the forum. Some people have talked about taking the forum completely offline and having something else. If that's the scenario and there's a newcomer coming in, then where do you actually point them towards? Because people want to work in different ways. I think, on that point, it's really important for the Drupal community to sort themselves out and decide something. Not making a decision is worse than making one. That might not be optimal. That's where you get the tricky situation, because of the fact that the community may have made a decision of what they want to do, but they need the support of the DA who have budgetary restrictions in terms of implementing those things. It's a very careful balance, but I think that the previous slide about the process of putting modules through, it's a very similar thing. Everyone wants it to move faster, but it's agreeing on a solution and then implementing it that takes time. Roadmap communication. Creating easy-to-find summaries of active initiatives on Drupal Dog. I can also, from the fact that some initiatives that has really been the case, so the multilingual initiative that I think everyone will be aware of, that Gabor did, that was a very clear summary of the roadmap on there, and that made it very easy for people to duck in and out of the process. Making it easier for contributors to get involved with initiatives that interest them, clarifying the roles of initiative leads, having very, very clear about what an initiative lead is there to do, and improving the documentation and architectural overviews for future contributors. So it's about the roadmap communication. This is a big one for the community working group, and as you can see there, it says community work group focus. This is one over 2017 that we'll be spending a lot of time working on mentorship. And it's time and time again that people have fed back about mentoring. Time and time again we see in the context of the wider context of the Drupal community, but also in terms of sprints and what-have-you camps and comms, that mentoring really, really works. So the idea is to move the focus beyond just the camp kind of onboarding people, as it often happens, but try and, if we're doing mentoring at a camp, let's try and create some longer term mentor relationships where we can. Pairing mentors with high potential contributors for long-term, one-to-one mentorships. So also looking at targeting the people who you could see, you could move through the ranks, if that's what it was, or the learning levels. Providing more non-code mentoring opportunities. So pairing up people who are thinking about running a camp with someone who's been running a camp for ten years and getting that working, and providing more support and training to mentors. So not just doing mentoring at events, but actually doing training on how to be the best mentors. And we've got a ton of great stories out there about mentoring. It's something that the Drupal community has done well. So let's get those success stories out there and tell people about when it's worked and how it's worked. So we're really keen to improve the mentoring process and hopefully give people just coming into the community an opportunity to learn more and have someone to handhold them through some of the process. Leadership training. This is one that's quite close to my heart, but it's another focus of the community working group. It's one that we're hoping to be helping to work on. Creating a structured program for current and emerging leaders in the community. So we really want to find those people who are in leadership positions, whether kind of self-made or not, and get them working together and get them developing further. Focus on developing skills like creating problem solving, conflict resolution, advocacy and visioning. So we want to be taking a lot of what the community working group does and getting that happening throughout the community, not just within our group. Broadening the understanding of the Drupal community, its assets and its challenges, and creating a network of leaders within the Drupal community. So this we plan on doing at the events that happen. We plan on hopefully having a kind of open source training package that people can use in their events, but also to run specific events around leadership training. Conflict resolution. Creating easy to find resources that people can use to resolve issue without escalation. So if you look at our conflict resolution process, the first step is always to try and work through the issue yourself with the person. The second step is then to involve another community member and then escalate it to the community working group. Conflict resolution is a complex and often very difficult process, so we're putting together some training materials and resources that can help people to work through that without having to come to the community working group. Providing more conflict resolution sessions and training at Drupal events, that will hopefully be at Drupal cons, and again at Drupal camps we can provide, train the trainer kind of process where people get the training at the cons, go to the camps and can deliver that further to community members. I'm promoting a culture of empathy. Yes, okay. We're almost there. So come for the software, stay for the community. We all know the tagline. What we know is that the greatest asset we have in the Drupal community is actually the people, not the code. Of course the code is useful, but it's the people. As a community we tend to give less attention and value to the non-code contributors, but it's those kind of contributions that play a key role in enabling the code to continue going in the way that it is. It's really important that we try and focus on some of these recommendations and make those happen, but we also constantly need to be evaluating the community to see where the issues are arriving. And there are issues there. Things have improved already, but you can see with 40% of people feeling burnt out, that's not good. Hopefully with some of the technical changes that have happened as well, that new version set up, that kind of thing. But there's a lot of non-technical things that we can be doing to improve the health of our wonderful community. This is the Twitter accounts of all of the community working group. There's stuff in the governance section of the website if you want to hear more about what we do day to day. But we are, as I said, we've got maybe three minutes for a question if anyone wants to, but we've got our tweets and we're happy to have conversations at any time with anyone about the ideas that they may have to take this stuff forward. Does anyone have a question? A wider, a wider, yeah. Yeah, 109 obviously. Yeah. And a lot of this wasn't so much about drawing conclusions as much to get some feedback and input as to why those things were, but yeah. My gut feeling is that that kind of thing needs to be going through, effectively needs to be tied into the surveys that trees tend to do quite regularly. And that we need to just have a bit more of a, I would say, a presence within those surveys because they tend to get much higher. As a CWG, we don't have much of a profile. We only just got a Twitter handle in February, in November. So I think when trees does its next surveys then the best thing would be to get some questions into there that are reflective of this kind of stuff. Can I just express a frustration? Sure. And obviously people here haven't thought about it, they can shout out. So last six months I've been trying to do some work on C-tools and D-Send. Partly because I just thought a bit of frustration was some stuff. I cared about the work that it takes and where it did have ethics. And there's been a kind of perception, probably real, that D7 C-tools is, what do I feel right? You know, D8 now? But we've still got several years of D7 support and lots and lots of companies that seem to be sticking with D7 science. So am I wrong in thinking that supporting D7 is still a good thing to do? I'm probably not the best person to ask, because I'm not a developer, but in terms of the process, my understanding would be that you tend to develop for Drupal 8 and then backport that for seven. Having said that, in contrary, particularly if it's new features or bug fixes or whatever, then it might not be that that works. D7 D8 is a completely different beat. There's virtually no point in attempting backport. I think if people are effectively saying there is only a certain length of time that this work is going to be useful to people, that's the reality, but on the flip side, as you say, there's still a certain few years. It's a length of time, most in years, not much. It's my point of view. It's tricky because there's lots of people in this, and there's a lot of opinions and ways of doing things. But I would just keep at it and keep contributing. It's just the sort of dismissive way that some people are talking about it. It's like, well, you do have both. The communication is the really interesting part of all of this, is that being such a huge community, we all communicate in different ways, it could just be busy, it could just be a bad day, it could just be that they're generally rude in their demeanor. We still want them to be around and involved. Promoting a culture of empathy, I don't know if it's downplayed it there, but it's quite a huge one which is just trying to remember that anything could be happening in other people's lives, and it's very hard to... It would be easy just to not worry about it from a personal level and just take it as a find someone else to work with who wants to help. Do you have any questions? No, it's the kind of thing that can tell what it can't talk about is what those tickets are. In terms of incident reports, it really bounces around because we never have more than two or three new ones per week, and often we won't get one for a month. The scale of an incident report could be someone saying, I don't like how someone's written to me on an issue to some level of harassment or something very serious. The time we could spend on issues could be anything from 10 minutes agreeing that we just need to send one of our fairly stock responses back, directing them somewhere else, for example, or it can take weeks. We've had some issues where we're working on them for weeks and all spending hours per week doing that. We are working on thinking about growing the group because for four of us on different time zones it's a lot of work. Unfortunately, the amount has grown. Let's say we always have things to do every week, and that's part of the problem, is we don't have a huge amount of time for all this extra curricula stuff that we want to do, but with the growth in the group, hopefully that will become more a reality. I was just going to say thanks a lot and hope that was helpful. I'm going to be upstairs for the next hour and a half if anyone wants to ask any more questions. Thanks, Tim. It's my job. It's something we were discussing again last night. We've got this place. It's no wow. I don't even know that existed. About 100 posts a month. Right. From all over the world. What's the name of the group? It's a group of support. I've joined it. I'll put you in. I mean, Cyprian and me are the admins. Cyprian and I want to see it. Cheers, Tom. George Hayles, Heazlewood, and various other people. An Israeli guy called Roy Karen who came into Drupal three years ago. No knowledge. It's very much what you were talking about.