 But a very good afternoon to you. Warm welcome to people in the room and to those who are watching on the stream. The issue we're talking about now is responding to the great resignation. Now, that, of course, assumes that there was a great resignation to start with. And I'm going to be presumptuous and believe that some of the panel may even challenge that very question. And they were told that over four million people were quitting their jobs in the United States every month at the end of last year. And that was more than ever before. Well, they were all quitting their jobs. What were they doing and where were they going and why? And even if it did happen, how do policymakers and companies respond? Well, we have a perfect panel to discuss this and we'll be taking some questions from you in the room as we work our way through. It's not the most... Do forgive me. Nice to have you with us. We have Sharon Murrow, the General Secretary of the International Trade Union Confederation. Sharon, it is good to have you here. Alan Dehaze is the Chief Executive Officer of the Odeco Group. Nice to have you. Levan Kaguaralu is the Chief Executive Officer of Cork Holdings from Turkey, sir. You're most welcome. And the Governor of Maryland from the US, Governor Hogan. It is nice to have you, sir. Thank you. The great resignation. First of all, do you accept that there was a great resignation? No. I think it's a myth. Because if you look at the US Bureau of Statistics, then what it shows is people actually did swap jobs. There's no doubt about that. In the US, you didn't do what Europe did or Australia did because millions of people lost their jobs overnight within a day or two of COVID, whereas the arrangements with social protection, with short-term working hours, et cetera, kept people in jobs in other countries. But the theory was, I think the idea underlying the great resignation is that either people had had enough, or they wanted to do something else, or they were going to move somewhere else. And basically, they just were not going to put up with the corporate crap. Well, that's a really good theory that I could buy into. But actually, what really was happening is, if you look at pre-pandemic, you had 4% transfer of jobs. It went up in leisure and hospitality and retail, I think, with the three big sectors, by about 2%. Now, that's because people were offered a higher wage or a little more security. And that's fair enough. People do change jobs. I admit that there's a lot of job... There's a lot of tension and dissatisfaction. But I don't think you can say it's a great resignation, except potentially in the tech sector and the high-level paying jobs. So, it's a myth. Do you agree? As a matter of fact, there was an article on Harvard Business Review in March arguing that this was a linear trend starting in 2009. And because of the COVID, in 2020, there was a decline. And in 2021, it was a catch-up on the previous year. And the picture is different in different markets, including the emerging markets, where the job security is more... much more concerned. So, within your company, did you notice people leaving, changing, moving? In our company, where we have 110,000 colleagues, it has not been the case. As a matter of fact, in the last seven years, the voluntary leave ratio has declined. Although we have seen some of our colleagues leaving, especially in the IT sector... Are they leaving to go to other jobs? Are they leaving because they've been poached by other employers? They have been poached by other employees from companies in Europe, in the US, because they are being offered much higher salaries in those countries. That is the reason. And that's a problem for you? That is not a big problem at the moment. But it may become a problem for us. Well, so far, two people say that the very purpose of our discussion is irrelevant. So, I hope the coffee bar is still on. And you are looking at me to solve this. And as a good Belgium guy, I will say yes and no. No, there is no resignation. No, there is no resignation, because otherwise we won't have any workers anymore if everybody would resign. But there is great revelation. What do I mean with this? Because of the COVID, people have been away from the office. They have continued to work in a different way. They have continued to be very productive. And two years after, their employers have said, yeah, but you have to come back. And they have said, I have to come back. I have to come back in big cities. I have to commute again and so on. I don't want to do this. And as a consequence of this, they have started to re-evaluate their life. And I can give you also figures, because we are one of the biggest recruiters in the world. If pre-pandemic, we had about 10% of the jobs opening, which were allowed to be performed away from the office. Past pandemic, we were above 70% of the jobs being able to perform in a remote way. And this has changed dramatically. And employers were not allowing that kind of work pattern. They have lost their employees. So that's why this great revelation. The revaluation, Governor, I mean, it's slightly more difficult in the state sector, in a sense, in the public sector, to do that. But we'll come onto policies that you might introduce. But if you just look at your state employees that you have, did you see any shifts and changes? Well, first of all, I would agree with my friend from Belgium saying yes and no. We had some people, I think, that re-evaluated what they wanted to do for a living during the 28 months that we've been going through COVID. Maybe re-evaluated what type of job they wanted to have. And we've been focused on a couple of things. One, with our state government employees, we were having difficulty filling all of the jobs. We did have some folks leave and go into higher-paying private sector jobs. We initiated an effort where we took about 20,000 of our state government jobs. And we lowered the requirements. We let them transfer. Instead of requiring a four-year degree, we allowed for people that had comparable work experience or served in the military or had other real-world real-life experience. So we enabled a whole lot of new people to now be able to apply. They were perfectly capable of doing the jobs. They were just being excluded. Now, did you do that because there was a necessity? You couldn't fill the jobs. There was a necessity being the mother of invention. You had to change the criteria. Well, it's a little bit of both. So we were growing jobs at twice the rate of the rest of the country. Unemployment is down. Our state government jobs, it was not that big of an issue, but a big portion of our workforce. We have the highest median household income in America and the most highly educated workforce. But we also have a huge chunk of folks that were kind of being left on the sideline. And so we wanted to try to provide opportunities for them, both in state government and to try to set an example for the private sector to say maybe you should consider the requirements that you have for some of the positions you're trying to fill. We've got a fair number of people in the room. Has anybody changed job in the last 12 months? Yes, ma'am. You've changed jobs by your own choice. You resigned from one and you went off to the next. Yes, I did. Excellent. And behind you, the gentleman there. Same. I changed jobs. I resigned from one and went to the next. I mean, it's not a personal question, which it is a personal question. What was the motivation for resigning to go? I'll rephrase that in case it might be other part of it. Was it because quality of life, other issues like that? No. No, my tenure was over in one job. It was actually two years passed over. I was in her way and I left. Anyone on this side change jobs? Yes, tell us. A shout. I changed jobs 10 and a half months ago and a small part of my rationale was related to the fact that my former employer wanted people back in the office with a higher degree of regularity and my current employer is a virtual first environment. That was not the only reason, but that was a small part of the reason. I won't call anybody to justify it, but has anybody considered changing jobs? LAUGHTER When's your term up, Governor? I think others might have a view on that. In January, I'm going to be part of the great resignation. My term will come to an end. At the end of June, I will make a great revelation. And at the end of November, I'm stepping down from my current job. LAUGHTER So essentially, we have a panel on a discussion that doesn't exist with people who won't be in work. LAUGHTER Well, no, in different work. Hopefully we'll find a job. Can I break the myth, the second part of the myth here? There are jobs, including many of my own staff, who do have the luxury to have some, you know, working from home with technology, et cetera. Not entirely, because they represent workers globally, so they have to go to where the workers are or where the negotiations are. But that's a luxury. In hospitality, in retail, can you really serve a customer on, you know, in a street souping, you know, in Davos, down the road, if you're not there. It's in factories that kept us going. In the health environment, in teaching, yes, for a while, but in fact, the parents in my staff thought teachers were heroes by the end of the time, because they wanted to get their kids back to school. But as the general secretary of a trade union confederation, is this turnover for whatever reason? Is this beneficial because employers have to do more to attract staff. They have to work harder to do that. Yeah, I mean, we can use it. There's no doubt about that. I was saying to the governor that wages in his state, not quite 15, but they're 12, 50 or something, minimum wages. But when I looked at the statistics, people actually, there's a lot of exemptions. A lot of them are paid lower wages in hospitality, in retail, in leisure, in other areas where you have to be present. And they're moving. PricewaterhouseCoopers figures actually are enlightening because they say that there was less job-swapping even last year than previously. And I think that is about security. But also, remember, you had, I don't know, the American market had an extraordinary loss of workers to the labour market. Majority of them women, because women couldn't afford childcare. They actually now are really feeling the pinch financially. But going back to work is a cost-benefit calculation. Look, I think we've been focused on this issue for the eight years that I've been Governor of Maryland, and it's really about kind of upskilling and re-skilling workers and trying to train them for the jobs of the future and allow them to earn higher income. So we have a number of different programs. We have P-TECH, where we focus on STEM. We let them get a two-year AA degree at the same time they get their high school diploma. They get paid summer internships and mentorships and first in line for jobs when they come out. We've got a program we started called the Earn Grant Program. It's nationally recognized where we will pay for with grants. The private sector designs the training that they need for the skilled jobs that they have. And we do this but the state will pay for this to help. We don't want to train workers for the jobs that there's no market for. We want to train them for these very specific skills that all of you in the private sector need. And we've added 60 different new apprenticeships including not just the traditional thing like the trades, but in things like cyber security, where we have we're the cyber capital of America, home to the NSA and the U.S. cyber command. We have 17 colleges and universities of cyber excellence, but we're re-skilling and we didn't actually get a college degree that are coming out and making $100,000 a year. So, you know, trying to provide for the jobs of the future, the government does have a really big role to play in partnership with the private sector too. But the number one problem we hear from every industry is we don't it's not a question of people leaving their jobs, it's a question we don't have enough skilled labor to do what we need to do. But the U.S. is having to do quite a lot of work. They're doing a lot of catch-up to Maryland, you mean. They are. Perhaps a few thoughts about it, because it's also about, again, this revolution. You have a lot of people having left a company and an industry because this industry was eventually low paid, heavy duty, you had to work during the weekend, in the shift, during the night and so on. And during the weekend, they had to start new type of jobs and they have left. They have left the hospitality, for example. Now, the question is do the employers have to work harder, not really harder, but for sure they have to reinvent themselves and reinvent their business. And so that's why you see a lot of restaurants saying okay, we open earlier, but we finish also earlier so that people can have at least a normal life, a normal night. People can have their weekend and so they reinvent themselves also to offer a better life for the people. Sir. Of course, we need to take some measures, but as the group, we have always adapted a long-term perspective, including this one. Our main strength comes from our values, core values which have been embedded in our corporate culture, including putting the people first. That means from the job protection point of view, we have always stood by our colleagues, our people, even during very difficult times, including the COVID period. And having said that, job security is not enough. New generations have different expectations. They want to put a positive impact in the societies they live in. They want to make a change for the better. So they want to be empowered and included. In order for us to enable them to do so, we have had to adapt new methods. Tell me what you've adapted because we're talking here about a sort of a late, Gen Z or late Gen X workforce, which I don't think there's anybody in the room who might be Gen Z. But we're talking about a workforce that requires that. What are you amending? First of all, they want flexibility. They want flexibility in time and place as we have discussed. They don't like hierarchical structures. So we have decided to adapt this agile working model which is quite instrumental to remove hierarchical structures and empower our colleagues. We have also adapted new personalized hybrid working schemes for our colleagues. We have now built 35 collective office spaces where they can work when they need to come to work physically. And we are planning to increase it up to 100 units. Therefore, in addition to complement this, we have had to adapt a new performance system which provides transparency of the company objectives also the goals of the top management. Alain, maybe we can go work for him. Please. Absolutely, but I'm so pleased with all purpose. And I think that everything is starting with the purpose and young people, especially the Gen Z, they are looking for strong purpose allowing them to have impact to make impact into the society. I take the old example to make the future work for everyone. Everybody wants to make the future work for everyone. And it starts by having this purpose and then, yes, you have the different benefits, flexibility because it is very important, but you have to demonstrate with real facts how you embody your purpose so that people are willing to join you and stay with you. But let me take you to Nigeria, Tunisia, you know, India, pick a country, Indonesia, the young Gen Z, in fact anybody that's younger than us is still actually pretty desperate for job security for a labour market place where they can feel like, they can feed their families, live with their family, you know. That's merely a point that one size doesn't fit all. The policies have to account for those markets that are less developed and have more basic jobs and decent work. Versus those in the developed world where there are more higher, if you like, at the scale it requires. It might mean that the companies with the luxury to do good in the world actually put in place human and labour rights in their supply chains. But maybe mandated due diligence, Richard. The one doesn't prevent the other. I think, strong purpose, yes I know, security and flexibility. And we are advocates of combining flexibility which is requested by the young generation. They want to have the possibility to move on very regularly, but they want security. And so it's up to us and especially I'm looking at the policy makers to organize this combination of security and flexibility both on the individual side but also for the companies, for the business to be allowed to do that. As a policy maker how do you balance the legislative or regulatory environment between job security and the freedom of the workforce and the availability of the workforce? What's the freedom of the workforce and freedom for the private sector companies they get to make these decisions for themselves. So you want to set policies that help people get the skills and get the jobs that they want and have a purpose and to have the flexibility and all the things that this generation is looking for without being dictating to companies what they have to do. Because I think, look, this was going to happen anyway. It's been accelerated because of COVID and different industries are impacted. We were talking about the service industry. You can't do that remotely. There's certainly a lot of things in IT where you don't have to ever come to work. You can do everything remotely. Somewhere in between I think in the service industries like in law firms or financial services I think younger people who are not working in the office are losing that mentorship of the older generation that aren't Gen Z that can pass on to them by working together in an office. I think we all have to figure out in each industry and each sector and each level of income how we're going to go about this new world of work. But listening to what Levent was saying about, how old is your company? In 40 years we will be celebrating our Centennial. Oh, we're all invited to the party. Excellent. So you're 100 years old and it's a family, it's one of the largest companies in Turkey listed but family listed. How easy was it for you to make that mental adjustment for a traditional company that recognised it had to do things differently? The image I always have is our parents disco dancing until one realises that's now us at a certain age. So how easy was it for you to make that adjustment? First of all let me say that a publicly listed company but family controlled gives me the comfort to maintain this long-term perspective. I have never been under short-term performance pressure at all. That's why during difficult times I have the luxury of making these tough decisions and I have to say that when we make the tough decisions in turn our colleagues act in solidarity with their companies when we need their support. This has been part of our cultural transformation journey all what we have done. It is our responsibility as the management of this wonderful group which I'm very proud of working for to prepare this group for the next century. In order for us to do that we have been running a transformation programme and the main pillars of this programme are digital transformation zero-based approach, innovation corporate entrepreneurship agile working carbon transition and people development. This is part of this big overarching transformational programme. What's the one thing that people want that people have told you because you've already got thousands of employees yourself but you've got 2 million people that you place so what is the one thing besides a decent salary? The one thing is impact. Good question. Every time we are meeting, interviewing people and we are asking them and I speak about the Gen Z what do you want? I want to have impact and you have to help them to answer the question what kind of impact the opportunity and the possibility to have first a small impact and then a bigger impact and so on but the key question they have and the key ambition they have is making and having impact. I do wonder perhaps somewhat more controversial when we all started in our careers you knew it was more than five days a week that you'd be working you knew that it would be long hours going to climb to the top of the greasy pole in any profession you knew that this was going to require a commitment and level of dedication and certainly in politics it's not nine to five. No it's not nine to five. I spend my whole life in the private sector as an entrepreneur starting and founding and running small businesses and talk about wanting a purpose I left 40 years in private sector and now I'm ever to run for office because I was searching for a purpose how I could make a difference for the people in my state and I work seven days a week but I'm passionate about what I do and I love my job and I think that really is what everyone wants. We've talked a lot about Gen Z but that's only a portion of the issue we have folks at middle age and older who need to get re-skilled because they still want to contribute like me I didn't have any skills to be governor but I learned on the job and you got re-elected so clearly the voters thought you might have had some skills now we are coming from a total different background I think 30-35 years ago when we started to work where I was coming from it was about earning money being able to pay my apartment my cars in an autonomous way and so on this generation is coming from a total different environment the world of the junior reporter when I started as a junior reporter the idea of wondering that you hadn't had a weekend off now I'm not saying it's right Sharon because I can feel you bristling absolutely I'm not saying this right but I hear some of the questions or the issues now and I think how things have changed absolutely the environment has changed career is not anymore the top of my priority I want for sure to live in a secure environment and so on but I don't want to give anymore everything for my professional career I want a balance the vast majority of the people wants a balance between private purpose and professional purpose and they are not ready to any compromise but I think you're talking about a particular work culture my father was a builder he went to work at 7 o'clock in the morning he was home at 4 o'clock in the afternoon religious every day of his life you know he would then go out and do things in the community my brother worked for a public sector he went to work every day came home every day at the same time that's the bulk of the workforce I'm sorry but it is and the number one convention the number one convention at the ILO in terms of global rights the good old 8 hours now when we re-evaluated the future of work in 2019 and negotiated with employers and with governments they said irrespective of the employment arrangements because we are seeing a terrible breakdown in the employment contract 60% informal work total exploitation desperation in many countries no social protection, no minimum wages no rule of law no security so yes they want a decent wage but I'd say the one thing they want is job security so they can do what you just said pay their rent invest in a car if that's what they want raise a family so I don't think we should romanticise the difference between some professions absolutely acknowledge that and the bulk of the world of work right but has the bulk of the world of work changed? the great resignation is those privileged ones who enjoy the luxury no I don't think that's true either you have to separate the luxury of saying I'm going to negotiate to work from home for three days or five days yes we all have employees and many of ourselves who make that choice but if you walk the world I walk in the global workforce then the overwhelming number of people work a set number of hours in a set location half the world is even connected to the internet when you want to talk about remote working so I just think in a world that wants to be global where companies have supply chains you have to understand the whole of the workforce and not just this bit as much as I'm not saying we shouldn't actually manage it well I have no figures but I think that the profile of the workforce has changed and probably 40 years ago we should look at the figures but you have many more people having the type of working life you are describing on-premise very regulated quite many more manufacturing jobs and so on and through the years we have automated a lot we have created a lot of new jobs so it means that today when you look at the global workforce 50% needs to be on-premise but 50% are the so-called knowledge workers 50% and those 50% they have order expectations today then they could have 30 years ago so you are talking about that 50% on the knowledge based workforce to that extent where do you draw the line Levant where will you move no further in terms of I'll do flexible working I'll do this I'll do that but at what point do you say enough you want to work for us these are the criteria that you've got to follow as a matter of fact we talked about the purpose I believe that the core values and the clear corporate strategy could provide the sense of purpose to entire workforce including the colleagues who are at the shop floor operating the machines having said that what we are doing has not been forced by our employees or other forces to do from our core we put our people the first therefore it is we believe that they are the ones who make us successful therefore I mean this is a dynamic relationship I cannot tell you that this is the limit we cannot go beyond to your previous question what was the trigger maybe to make these type of changes it was the COVID environment I have to tell you before COVID we had thought about remote working more flexible working but we had the courage to do so having gone through that period we saw that it was possible it is possible and we can test the limits of that and we saw the results we haven't lost any efficiency operational efficiency by remote working and we have the tools developed to measure the performances therefore I mean this is a dynamic situation I don't want to say any boundaries that we have in our mind I believe that whenever we need the support of each other from the colleagues from us as the manager they will be there we will be there to support them that is the main idea going forward let's hear from anybody in the room on this subject that was quick right in front of me let's see who is going to want to speak lady over there lady over there behind me we will start with you thank you very much I am Luisa I work for BVDA a bank and obviously we have felt the same issues as you have been describing my question is on the longer term because we have installed a hybrid model that has been formalized labour wise it is a 6040 model very flexible in terms of how you can take it my question is 6040 on-prem there is obviously flexibility around that because it affects labour contracts especially in Spain that has to be the rule let's say so my point is I feel sometimes that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place in the sense that remoteness creates less engagement overall what happens is aren't we going to a place where people are more disengaged overall from the culture the values because they don't live it and because they don't live it they are going to be more volatile and move around more so isn't this a catch 22 we will talk about that because what I found during the pandemic is the more junior staff were the first ones to want to work from home because it was such a great new Jim Jams but as it went on longer and longer they realised they were the ones that were most at risk the senior staff were speaking to we had known each other for 20 years we were speaking to each other every day all the day on that but the junior staff were not hearing the projects they weren't getting water cooler time just by seeing that or popping into somebody's office or they felt disengaged and they were the ones who wanted to come back into the office but not all the time so how do you balance that Governor how do you balance what we're saying the need to come in with the risk of disengagement well it's a really difficult question and as you said it's a catch 22 I think it really is and I think the people who suffer the most of the younger workers I mentioned that earlier where I said they're not getting the mentorship they're working for a long time and you don't have that there's a difference between being on a computer and interacting in a personal way together in the same office so with our workers in the state government there's really different people that do different types of jobs and some of them have to be there to do their job it's like they're fixing a road they're building something they have to be engaged some customer service answering phones helping people with problems and steering them they can do it remotely but they still are not getting the interaction and so with people at higher levels they're all interacting every day and making big decisions and it may be those folks in the middle that are really getting squeezed a little bit because they're being remote and they thought it was going to be good for them but they're starting to find that it's actually hurting them can I just take you on this because in our business it's the directors it's the producers it's the people who put the programs the camera and all that sort of people do you feel, in your case the road workers the people who do that do you feel the need to somehow in some way compensate either with greater leave or by finding some for the fact that they have to go to work versus other people who don't I mentioned this earlier what we've tried to do is give people a path upward and so the folks that were at this level are now making more money and we've back filled with people by saying you don't have to have a four year degree to do these jobs and we brought in new people who are excited to have those jobs and who are working hard and so it's been a win-win for both the people that have been with us a while and with the new folks that now have an opportunity Richard do you make it sound like the workplace is a terrible thing no I don't it's actually a place that most of us like to be colleagues and Spain actually moved very quickly to put legislation in place to protect workers and the dignity of decent work in that mix then if I've given that impression I didn't mean to I was intending to point out again if I think of our industry mine is we ended up giving a bonus to those producers who throughout the pandemic had to come into the office because you have to keep the program on air and it was a way of recognising that there were people who didn't have a choice nobody gave the nurses or the retail workers or the truck drivers bonus but that's not a reason but with great respect Sharon that is not a reason not to do it where you can no no and I totally agree with that you know I do but I actually do think we need to also know the nature if you put people first you know the nature of the job and people tell you that they're engaged that they want to be working in this way that's fine work it out but don't think that we know what people want because mental health's gone through the roof in terms of risk you know some people have now got eye conditions the blue light other people you know are actually risking hearing we'll take a question Hi my name is Salome I'm a global shaper and I'm a millennial so I work for university so I also with like the Gen Z so I wanted to comment on what Sharon said earlier about developing countries not also wanting the flexibility and the rest because they are more into job security so the truth is they are already having a cap of how long they are going to sacrifice that flexibility to save and still want what you would call the developed countries want the flexibility and agility so still regardless if they are in developed or developing they are still wanting what they want which is as you said passion, impact doing so many things in the world so yeah I wanted to make comments on that Gentleman behind Hi my name is Pranav Sia of EI Mindspark I find that a lot of the employees today want to work less but want continuously higher increases in pay and they're also the competition that's just poaching them how does one sort of balance out the need for creating value first before capturing it from an employee lens they want the work life balance but they also want a 20% pay and as a business it's hard But that's entirely reasonable If you're an employee you only have one thing to sell which is you and if you can sell that for 20% more and still get satisfaction running a profitable business Oh, good point The lady next to you I think I'm Penny Noss I'm with UPS So, a question I wanted to ask was about roles of leaders and managers because what we're talking about so far is the workers but when you're talking about disengagement when you're talking about things one of the things that we've seen is during the crisis that locational bias of the headquarters was lessened because you had to work globally with everybody and everybody's square was the same size and so my question is is this a worker problem or is this a leader problem Sir, worker or leader problem I think this is a leader problem to make sure that all the workforce have been engaged in the common purpose and objectives so when it comes to changing role of the leaders what the pandemic have strengthened the need for the leaders to be close to the colleagues as much as they can they need to improve their communication coordination skills especially for the ones who are working remotely and there are tools if we have time regretfully we don't but we'll continue I'm André Guam an oncologist in the US running a large multi center cancer program and we all obviously dealt with COVID you talk about nurses, thank you for mentioning them because in this post-COVID environment they're the one who saved the world and they very often say that we went from heroes to zeros, well you heard that multiple times sure there are a lot of nurses who have had a high during the peak of the pandemic over 3500 nurses over 4000 actually nurses from these traveling nurses from agencies that are much higher cost and actually we have employees that are leaving departments working temporarily for these companies and coming back in the same department with a salary that is almost double so this is really difficult to manage as a hospital and I would like to get into healthcare where it's an industry that doesn't have a huge margin under pressure post-COVID recovery and how we keep this stuff in healthcare setting it's a really important and difficult question hard to answer I don't have a real easy one for you but I agree that the nurses were the healthcare heroes throughout the pandemic and our state had one of the best health responses to the pandemic of any place in America and I was leading the National Governors Association as the governors were leading through that I tell you that the nurses were doing an incredible job the whole healthcare system stepped up and we owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude but we were seeing you know there were as the pandemic went regionally from one place to another there were places that desperately needed nurses and they were willing to pay huge amounts of money to get visiting nurses and they were in some cases doubling their pay so we were having an exodus of nurses leaving it got to the point in our state where we have a huge very great healthcare system we had people from Johns Hopkins across the street from the University of Maryland Medical System they would move across the street to get more money so we had this people just transferring all over the place it was like the highest bidder and on the one hand the nurses were desperately needed and paying them more was something you had to do but the margins are very slim and they were actually competing against each other the hospital systems but we need to invest much more in care if the global health shop did nothing else it exposed the under industry in care globally and if we don't pay attention that it is health it is education it's childcare it's aged care it's all of those things if you want to keep people in the labour force you've got to provide healthcare but you also have to provide those other areas of care but the solution is bargain for higher wages you know nurses have been underpaid in many countries forever I used to bargain for nurses alongside their union in Australia and I can tell you the skills levels for those nurses are extraordinary they could actually earn money right up to nurse practitioner just below a doctor doctors didn't particularly like it but there are solutions for careers that make people want to stay and I think it's time we evaluated who we are actually valuing and what we are paying them and I just say can I just say to the young woman over here that I'm talking about the jobs availability because young people in Tunisia right now are again you know on the streets because they can't get jobs you know in many parts of the world they can't get jobs so it isn't about the luxury of exactly what you say I'm not suggesting for a minute they don't have the same value set but the first priority is to get a job to get a job that pays them decently and it has some security as we come to the end because I can see we are just about out my last... I would like to say to this young great woman don't bargain security for flexibility but leapfrog that's also the opportunity you have and you should claim for more flexibility and to realise your dream to have impact and so on and at the same time invent a way to also have security and there are ways to do it it's just that society and policy and regulation have to be reinvented according to the need of the current society finally you're talking of the great re-evaluation right you said re-evaluation so to the panel finally how have you re-evaluated your own life and what are you going to do differently what has your re-evaluation led you to conclude about your own life sir I have realised that I have been working very hard personally I am trying to balance my life again but we have seen that even during very difficult times we have to keep our hopes alive that's my lesson Sharon what have you re-evaluated I think we've got no no but me and my role have gone back to basics we have to fight and that means me but it means all of you for full employment and social protection that's at the heart of trust in our future now the way we work is a different story what are you going to do differently what are you going to do what are you going to do what am I going to do I tell you what I'm going to do having done 21 years at CNN I'm entitled to a month's long service leave which I probably wouldn't have taken and now to hell with the lot of you I am off for the whole of July your re-evaluation my revelation is that my revelation I want to stay young and join the Gen Z generation and have impact in the new chapter of my life Governor are you going to put the sordid business of politics behind you well somebody's got to save politics so I'm going to continue to try to be a voice of reason and bipartisan cooperation but yeah I think I've learned from the younger people we're talking about I would love to have some work-life balance I took two days off and went to Davos that was my only to take care of I'll leave you with this thought the level of hypocrisy on work-life balance that you have heard today well I'll leave you to make your own judgements thank you