 Coming out of our last meeting. You know the consensus from council was was. We don't want to fully discontinue incentivizing student housing projects. There does appear to be some concern about over saturation though and so if we are to move forward with future consideration on these projects how do we raise the bar. And include more public benefit and those specific type of projects. And so really. The goal for my conversation with y'all today is is to. Hopefully come to a little more clarity and get, you know, specific feedback. I guess I guess first of all, we want to have a clear definition of how we're defining, you know, student housing projects as they're coming in. That should be relatively easy to do. What are the additional criteria or benchmarks that we want to include on these and I guess some consideration of what level so if, if affordable housing is a. Is maybe say a mandatory requirement for these future projects, you know, is there a percentage that we want to go with. Are there conditional requirements that we'd like to place on these developers. I know affordable housing and public parking tend to seem to get most of the interest from council but there are other things that you know you could consider, you know, based on geography based on, you know, additional safety and pedestrian improvements. We have to have at the end of the day and what are the optional things that we want to consider. And then once, once we've got that, I think we'll have enough information to really put forward a specific recommendation for council to adopt, which could be done. Just by amending the resolution if councils inclined to proceed forward with those and then wanted to get a little bit of feedback as far as some discussions that have been going on regarding. Of some of these projects specifically when it comes to the cost to serve with regards to police and fire. Right now we don't have a clearly defined definition for student housing I mean it's pretty general at this point. And the way it is in the commercial development incentive we haven't parsed that out and made it separate from multifamily commercial development. I think some of the common things that we see from our side that that makes student housing different from a multifamily project would be student housing projects lease by the bed versus multifamily housing which leases by the unit. And student housing projects. In some cases will exceed you know three bedrooms per unit. So you can have you know a student housing development that has one unit and can have four to six bedrooms attached to that rental unit. Something that's a little more general and vague but we did we did take note of is their lease periods tend to swing around the timing of when college enrollment begins so they do a lot of leasing for their their units. In the summer time and then again you know they give them a very upfront about how they they market themselves to the public student housing you know self defines itself as such and they typically try to sell themselves that way too so. If we were to look at these I guess, you know, what would y'all feel comfortable in kind of using as defining periods for student housing would it be the lease by the bed and the number of bedrooms per unit are those some good criteria for us to kind of you know, separate these all from the herd or their other things y'all would be thinking of. The only thing is the lease by the bed to me I think that clearly distinguishes student housing or the types of projects that are intended for students versus something that would be available to students. I mean proximity to the university versus you know, anybody could have like if I'm, you know, I am, you know, a mom with three kids I'm not going to go to a place that leases by the bed so I think that's clear. And I guess the other thing for me is. If we're looking at the multifamily just the density of it. And so to me I think that's something that we look at as well. Well, I agree. The, I think the bed, the number of beds seem to be the most common. The description for for student housing. And I agree sometimes proximity helps and sometimes and it doesn't I know my son lived in one of those type of units up in Greenville around when we drive Clemson, and they had the pods. So, you know, it's, it's, it's some interesting living arrangements, but that seems to be the most common descriptor. Do you agree. Yeah, I agree with, with you, Councilman Davis and I do think, you know, us giving exemptions in the past to rent by the bed for over the three bedrooms for bedroom units is something that can be looked at moving forward. You know, it's tough our code enforcement or rental enforcement calls for, you know, only, well I believe it's three unrelated individuals living together. That's the max, but, but then again, you know, as a as a property owner, you can, you can build a four bedroom apartment. Obviously, but that's, you know, that's where the enforcement of this comes in, which I think is another layer that that we need to look at strengthening given our code enforcement or zoning folks some more, some more, I guess, resources to keep up with all this. Yeah, no, I completely agree rent by the bed is the obvious is the obvious one that we can look at that that the one y'all want to kind of uses the defining criteria then just just that one, or did y'all want to look at the unit, the number of beds per unit as well. I think that's the only one we really can can hang our hat on, you know, unless you, you are familiar with some other models, Brian. It's not, you know, it's, it's pretty vague. You know, they're just there, they're kind of run and manage differently. You know, but from a, from a technical standpoint, there's not, there's a huge difference otherwise, versus some of these, you know, the four layouts may be different. Like I said, they're the, the bedrooms per unit may be different. I mean, we spy the beds kind of the easiest way to go about that and we're, I think we're very good with using that as the criteria. Okay. So then the next part we would, we would want to discuss a little bit is kind of these, these criteria options for consideration. So if we're going to raise the bar for student housing projects, you know, going forward, saying you, you must have, or you must include these elements in your project or we would like for you to include these elements in your project. So the next part where we wanted to get a little more specific as well is, is what is, what is the bar, you know, what do we need to be communicating to people as they come in and say, well, if you want to get this generation for council, you have to have these things. And so I've listed a number of these here on the page here. I've got some ability to have, you know, mandatory requirements. So I think we can have things that we must have at the end of the day versus some things that we would like to see as being conditional. But this is kind of what we, we've started with. I know points one and two at the top are ones that we typically seem to hear a little bit more about. They're placement at the top of the list is intentional. But you know that inclusion of affordable or workforce housing units and what does that percentage like a public parking space. We kind of ask people at this point to include public parking it's nice to have but do we want to put a strict limit on that. And then, you know, just a variety of other things. I think, you know, even with the project and tall but that came through recently, we did see a lot of layering of some of these other items that, you know, council may not determine that we have to have at the end of the day but could be some nice value adds whether it's additional pedestrian safety, the inclusion of other elements in the project that would be beneficial to the public like mail office, restaurant space, energy efficiency improvements, other safety improvements, some of these, you know, may may be looking at brownfield sites where there's remediation requirement and that's always a nice to have. And then if they want to make other contributions, you know, in around are in the vicinity of their projects with regards to public parks, greenfield space, and even supporting, you know, some of the neighbor and business association so just want to give you all a few minutes to kind of look at this and what, let us know you know what's resonating with you as far as what, what would you like to see if we raise that bar. I think that's a great list. You know, as you mentioned number one really stands out to me, the workforce and affordable component. You know you look at national case studies municipalities are size and larger trend towards you know upwards 25 30% of the total units dedicated to the workforce and affordable. So I would, I would strongly support that being one of the major drivers for any developer looking to qualify for the tax break from the, from the city and county. And as everything else flows through flows through, you know, would be kind of tell us what other benefits you can bring to the project, especially how you interact with the neighborhood. Yes, sir. And how do you think we can work proper property management into something like this, because you know property management something we have a huge problem with in all districts. I think the, it appears that the, the best model that gives the causes a good relationship between the surrounding property owners and a, let's say a neighborhood is on site management, as someone being away on call. I dealt with something on yesterday. But I think that's one thing we could. I don't know if you want to require it or demanded that. But I think that should be a healthy compensation because you. Again, you, you want that that development to be a good neighbor. And I think that the way that happens is that there's good communications. You've got somebody that that's on site that can make sure that the rules, the rules are followed. That's, that is when, when most of the anxieties kick in where people feel that, you know, the initial agreements aren't being adhered to or or there's unfortunately sometimes there's, there's conflict on the property that kind of spills out into the community and you don't want that. I think the, the, the one thing we want to consider or maybe imagine. When we learn about a development is impact, local impact. The numbers of one thing that if you combine that the beds with, let's say, you do have commercial components attached to it, how much of an impact is that on the existing area. We're looking at parking. I think traffic impacts and so forth, but I would think we ought to consider that so that an existing community and neighborhood doesn't experience what they might consider. It's a good job. You know, for us, this traffic generally means some investments in terms of safety factors with the traffic and, and that sort of thing, but I would say with that and local management on the site, there are other things that kind of keeps everybody happy, gives puts everybody in, in a positive comfort zone. Mr Davis and Mr Brennan, if I can add, I think the points you're raising are really, you know, important. I think whether it's due to housing market rate, and even the recent presentation by Columbia housing with a lot of their wonderful projects underway. And to capture these developers and potentially their adherence to certain type of property management is, is that the onset of the project on the front end, you know, when you have a captive audience by them with you for project consideration. And I think some of the things that, you know, we've been noticing whether amplified during COVID, but the relationships between Chief Holbrook and Chief Jenkins with the developments and those who are actually on site has become even more critical. You know, times where we were seeing at some of the student housing projects, for example, certain behaviors and, you know, just sheer numbers of young people and things that they were involved in and what our law enforcement and our marshals had to get involved with is just unacceptable. And so I think if we have that type of acknowledgement front end by property management of what we're, they're going to be held accountable to, I think, really important. I mean, even with some of the projects coming online, any of them from the Columbia housing to market rate affordable are attainable. And I think this act this notion of a public safety presence has become more needed. What can some of the private developers bring to the table on the front end to assist with our law enforcement infrastructure in neighboring communities and or just again a partnership of some type. I'm not saying that it, you know, necessarily has to be law enforcement on site all the time, but there definitely be a stronger relationship on the front end and expectation that that's maintained for the duration. I think, yeah, I think those are great points and certainly something we need to weave into not only the overall discussions. You know, but the expectation that if you're receiving this benefit, we expect to see a certain level. of community safety provided at the end of the day. And may need to just figure out, you know, we're exactly we we weave that in whether it's through the resolution or through the actual ordinance or whether it can be done through a memorandum of agreement with the specific developers as they're getting it as well. So some some technical questions there because I guess at the end of the day if we want to be able to have some accountability and somebody, you know, to claw back on these. How do how do we measure, you know, tangibly how public safety needs are being met, I guess, and and maybe that's number of number of calls per year have to remain below a certain level or the cost per serve has to be at or below a certain level. I would, I just personally have some questions there but I nothing that we can't talk our way through. Yeah, okay. Yeah, completely. Okay, so requirement wise, I think, from a mandatory perspective, you know, we would want to make the affordable the work force housing element, an inclusion as as in you must have, you know, for consideration is, is that how you'll like to proceed on that. And, but for my standpoint, it probably kind of depends on. I definitely think it needs to be included and have a conversation the way that looks may look different depending on the, the, the structure and the development so for instance, Project Catawba. And there have been, there'll be one bedrooms and they're under the definition and meet the income requirements but because of where it is and everything else and probably be more attractive for young professionals. That certainly is not something that you know, a family would need. It's a, if it's a development that ends up not lending itself to the criteria, I know other cities have done where there might be, you know, a percentage of the workforce housing and or a deposit to some kind of fund at the city that allows that continues our effort. So, so anyway, that's just kind of my thought process, because I'm just, I'm just kind of wondering, would that always be an attractive unit for somebody who needs the type of housing that we're talking about so if it's a young professional, and it's a development that is going to be a whole lot of students, not because of student housing but because of where it's located and everything else. That would be probably more attractive to, you know, someone that's 23 in their first job and meets the requirements but it might not be necessarily attractive to, you know, the 35 year old who has, you know, more of a lower wage job. So, I guess I'm just trying to think through, if it's mandatory or if it is strongly encouraged and then through what Ryan's talking about whatever agreement, whether it's the resolution. MOA, MOA or whatever that is that whatever is discussed and determined, then it makes that that defend that to the details of that particular arrangement makes it into that agreement. But if we put it into our criteria, then the developer coming in understands that's a priority, and whether it is affordable housing unit set aside or there is a investment in the city's affordable housing programs, it could be either or. Yeah, I like that. Rather than appearing to dictate to a developer that that's an option. I'm not sure I'm following that council. Are you saying, are you saying that a student housing development come in and essentially buy out of those that percentage of set aside workforce affordable housing by investing somewhere else. And well what I'm doing is I'm thinking through it what I'm kind of just wondering, I'm really not so much for the developer but for the people that it set aside to like so if, because as I've been talking through project customer. It's going to work better because it is on the bed will be on the bus line, but it also because of where it's located in the, I guess you say lack of amenities in that area. It'll probably be more attractive to professionals, young professionals that affordable housing, you know someone is 23 that's coming out of college making, you know, $27,000 would meet the criteria so that set aside, I guess I'm wondering like, for instance, if it is a unit somewhere I guess I'm just kind of wondering if, if it's not a unit that would be attractive to the young professional or someone who needs affordable housing. Do we not have them out of it, but have some additional requirement that, well, if this is not a development that would be best suited for affordable housing you're not out of it, we still require something to be made into the city's affordable housing program so I'm just thinking through it I guess I'm just trying to figure out if it's always going to be a development that's attractive for affordable housing unit. Like going back to what we were talking about before I mean certainly if we're not going to do any with that release by the bed and that's perfectly, but seriously but something like that. Do you really think that a young professional or you know a young single person who needs affordable housing wants to live in that unit I guess that's right. Well, I'm not going to call out units but there's a certain units right now I know me, I would not want to go live there but I don't want to get someone, I don't want the developer to get the out of, you know, we're not having no one is applying or. That's that's what I'm afraid of you know I don't want them because I've seen it in other cities where they just buy out of it essentially and go back to the 100% well above market rate rentals. I think, I think how are you seeing that in other cities that do that I mean are there. I think it more so that someone is not interested in those units because that's why I'm I just I'm thinking through it and I feel like we have to do more research on it. Yeah, we definitely do we definitely do and I'll send you those case studies. I believe the municipalities I've seen allow for the developer to to either buy in or buy out. I think some of them have a stair step tax incentive rebate as well for, if you don't go the full, the full 30% if you only want to go 10% and you only get this incentive. Do you know if those are cities that are states that have inclusionary zoning are they buying out of inclusionary zoning, or they buy that's a great question. I believe there was a zoning layer that was part of it. Whether it's a rezoning to get to that incentive. I'll flip that around to staff. I would say and I can certainly take this to the affordable housing committee as well as do some other research, I guess to the original question for Ryan, I would like to do some more research I think affordable workforce attainable whatever we're going to call it is definitely should be a priority the question is, how is it mandated whether it is a percentage of units or anything else but I think it needs to be priority I just I don't want to put something in place and say it's mandatory and it ends up not getting the result that we want and a percentage of average meeting income might help with that, whether it's you know 50% of my it could you know that that that's the 22 $20,000 income level. You know up to up to 36,000 I would I would encourage you Ryan to look at the AMI approach. That was going to be my question. So, we then could, in our own way, maybe fashion, fashion that as a model, one or two different models that we would give us what we what we want helps us meet our workforce affordable housing goals helps us with the traditional and working with the developer for traditional housing student housing as they know it. And then maybe I think maybe maybe maybe a mix you don't you don't see it that often but you just have a development with on the front end, no spoken income requirements, in terms of upper versus mid versus low, but it would be good if you do have a developer that comes in and says you know we, it's open we work with anybody and if they can pay the rent or these are the price ranges that that come with our with this particular model. You know what I mean, and I, and I think you know the more clarity we can provide these folks. Yeah, you know and say well listen you know affordable workforce housing is a priority to us and we're really looking in the projects and if that isn't fit for you from the development side then maybe you know we're not the best community for this you know the developer is coming to us, you know looking for additional incentives. We're now looking for additional public benefit here. And I guess what we're just really trying to do is kind of lay down the rails and the guide work so that, you know, we don't, we don't wind up having unnecessary conversations when there's not going to be, you know, a new interest to help each other out into the day. And the more clear we can be on what we're asking for up front to these folks, then the quicker we can get down to brass with people who want to help us out with some of these additional amenities so we just have to clearly define how it goes. And if, if, if affordable workforce housing is a part of that whether that takes the shape of a percentage or, you know, some type of contribution, that's good. And one of the items here, if we want to say hey, you know, you have to meet this from nothing standpoint and then we'd like to see you check two or three of these other boxes we've got listed out here, because so we can really get the mileage out of it. Yeah, I think it's fair to ask for that too that's kind of kind of what I've been thinking in my head is, you know, here's what we have to have at the end of the day so you have to check this box and if we give you five or six other options and you can do a couple other options on that list that help us out as a community kind of these conditional objectives, then we're we're good with having a fruitful conversation and considering your project so. And so we just had a meeting about this, and I'll see the university cities. Subcommittee, I'll contact that that staff and get Ryan and his team with some of the folks that participated to get feedback on on structuring some suggestions on good structuring for that. That'd be great. We'll work on crafting some language and and building out the model from here based on the feedback. Y'all have just given us and then I guess one of the final points I wanted to talk about was there's been some conversations around you know that the sharing and the cost to serve of these. These projects are coming in you know additional city time and staff and resources are are required, you know to help serve these developments. And so the conversations come up about you know whether there could be a request for additional resource financial resources to go to the city to help you know support additional police and fire cost. And again, another area I think we wanted to get y'alls feedback on as well, you know that that that that breakout of you know who gets what is really set at the county council level. And so for for us to make you know that request for consideration I think that you know that's something that we're going to need to reach out to Richland County. I think we're going to need to talk to Jeff Ruble about have to run by his folks and see, you know right now it's done on a pro-rata basis. So you need to sample project Ryan to just to describe, take project Etava and you don't have to use the actual numbers but describe the structure of breakdown between, you know services starting at the top from the, the collector at the county, and how the services breakdown from there. Yeah, so we'll say everything kind of comes in at the 100% mark, you know so you're a full freight tax value. The multi county industrial park structures it out and so a small percent about 1% of that goes out to Fairfield County as part of their agreement. And the economic development gets a portion of that breakout that goes back into their capital fund which helps you know with industrial park and infrastructure and acquisition and so once you roll those things out. Probably at about 92%. And then you layer the tax, you layer the tax break in on top of that and so then then you're back down to 50%. And then once you're once you're at that 50% then everything is assigned out as it normally we would be on on the regular tax structures, the city would get 17% of that county gets its 20 ish percent. And then school board zoo, the other line items that would be under a normal circumstance. Yes, sir. Now the case has been made for student housing projects, you know the, the, the school districts tend to get the lion share. I remember a couple years ago there was some discussion, particularly with regards to these because they are for the student population. As to whether there would be some willingness to kind of reconsider the portion of the school district breakout because you know these are our college age kids they're not, they're not families they don't you know have the need. You know of the school district services as much. That was something that came up but to my recollection. I don't make that very far at the end of the day. Yeah, I'll make that distinction. But it was very, very much in respect strictly to the student housing projects you know what are the steps for that decision making process school district services and whatnot so. So you'd have to get sign off. If you were to pursue, pursue something like that from obviously county school district that everybody that gets a slice of the, the, the millage. It would need to go through county council. You know what once these are done it's it's not a tax anymore. It's transferred into a fee and so really, you know, county council can make that determination at the end of the day about how that that fee gets, you know, ultimately distributed. You're really the only other consenting authority that has to be a party to that, because it would be in our, our municipal jurisdiction as well, but it could be done relatively unilaterally, if that's what you're asking. Ryan, let me ask this, do we know I know that the mayor mentioned when we first started having this conversation. About making sure the county was aware that we were having this discussion, etc, etc. I've talked to a couple county council members and I'm not sure that honestly, this is huge on their radar but do we know or is there. I mean, I guess at some point if we decide to, to address the, the taxes we will certainly send them official letter but I had, do you know have there been any official conversations from a staff level for them to know that this is where we're considering things and, and to see if there's any initial thought process on their, their portion on their part about dealing with the percentages. Since we've begun these most recent discussions and, you know, I'm certainly kind of willing to have that conversation with, with Jeff at the county and talk to her a little bit more. I think we just wanted to make sure before we began those discussions that we had a better handle on what council was looking for. I know, you know, Councilman Rick and men has, has also expressed some interest in this as, as other council people have as well so we're, I'm, I'm fine with having the conversation I just want to make sure we've got our, our ducks in a row before we begin that. I don't know if, if there's been any, any other higher level conversations, but from a staff to staff perspective, we haven't really broached the subject yet. I think, I think, and, and Councilman Davis and I talked about this yesterday, you know, police and fire is very important to get our share, and if that, that share grows because of these types of large developments, which they would be to qualify, you know, construction and everything, and then, and I think it's important for us to, to communicate with with County Council on that for specifically those public safety initiatives. So I think that's a, I think that's a priority. Yeah, I think as soon as the sooner we put some meat on this bone that we're playing with. That gives any anybody to make a new Ryan and so forth. You give you more. I guess more substance to add to your conversations with County Council people. And see how they, how they react to it. I think at the end of the day, everybody's going to benefit. I think that's the selling point, but just need to make sure that what we put before them needs out definitely beats our needs. Yeah, and, and I mean we want to be really sensitive to it I know when you start talking about redistributing people's revenue streams, it get to be a touchy subject pretty quick. I think that's why there's been a little more willingness to kind of look at this model like this for student housing. You know, because there's there's less of need maybe at the school district level. I don't know that you can have the same conversation around mixed use or multifamily in general. But I think there is enough of a case for us to have at least a fruitful conversation around these particular types of projects. Okay. What are where I mean what are next steps I guess the question. I would say now we can start to work on some language for an amendment for the current resolution. So based on your feedback with the, you know how we want to classify student housing, probably need to do a little more homework on the work workforce affordable housing component of that. I've got some ideas there and some ideas on language for for conditional requirements you know if we're wanting to see them achieve certain other benefits. I think I think we could get something drafted and back for review in the next few weeks and then as Councilman Brennan said it would probably be good for us to touch with some of his folks at the university context they might help us frame some of that language as well but I think I've got enough to at least get draft started from it you know and if there's other things you know outside of that list that we had earlier. That you all would like to see as conditional or optional things we may want developers to consider. You know, please feel free to hear that with us and we can get those included as well. Okay. And then I guess, you know, a little more feedback on on how we want to proceed with the, with the cost to serve conversation as well. Ryan that this this this layout of suggestions and options this morning I. I see this is very valuable. I mean it's good good information for me today. So, can you, I'm not as technically savvy as you, I can't download this right now so will you send us a copy. Yes, sir. Okay. I will forward it out to you. Yeah, you're talking points this morning again. Yes, sir. I have it in your inbox in the next few minutes. I don't think anything else we need to add to this conversation this morning. I think I'm not just Councilman Davis you run a good meeting man. I still want to be like you when I grow up. This is good this morning that's the road map that we're trying to put together to make a you, you're good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this meeting. Yes, sir. I am. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll work on getting some language put together and get back to y'all soon with something, something to mull over as far as an amendment would go. Great. Okay. Thank you and staff. Thank you. Good info. Thank y'all. Thank you.