 Okay, I think we should probably get started. I'm sure some people will come in as we get going, but we can do the introduction. So welcome, everybody. Today's session is on developing a social procurement ecosystem for the US. And creating social and environmental impact through the procurement and purchasing process within an organization creates a really significant economic multiplier benefit to the community, to customers, to employees and to shareholders. So this session, we're going to look at the various ways that companies can create impact through what we would call social procurement. It also gets called sustainable procurement and impact procurement, procurement with purpose, many different things, but essentially organizations using their everyday purchases of goods and services to create impact in community and for the planet is what we're discussing. So today you're going to hear from Phil Holman, president and owner of Four Star Connections in Hudson, Massachusetts, about his company's focus on demonstrating sustainability and the challenges that that brought. Then we're going to hear from Stephen Young, global lead for procurement with purpose for SAP, about their global commitment to five and five by 25, but I'll let Stephen tell you about and their experience around the world of doing social procurement to date. We're going to hear from Amanda Kiesel, co-founder of Good Market, about how they are helping to curate a global impact seller supplier network. And from myself, Rebecca Dre of Bisocial USA. And we are a newly emerging social procurement intermediary not-for-profit for the US, helping buyers to find impact sellers and impact sellers to become social procurement ready. So we're going to start off with Phil, welcome Phil. And we're going to ask Phil. I'd like to ask you just to explain your company's approach to sustainability, what you've been doing and what the challenge is so far. Okay, great. Well, I want to start off by saying that there's a preconceived idea that I found. People believe that there has to be, you have to be a large entity, a large company to have a sustainability plan or to have any impact on social responsibility. The real truth is that it can be done at all levels and collectively it will have an impact. So my company is a good example of a company with very limited resources that's taken on the challenge of sustainability. We're a 35-year-old New England-based contract manufacturer with sales around $15 million. And we specialize in wiring, cable harness, cable harness and custom electromechanical builds. We sell almost exclusively to large publicly traded high-tech companies, original equipment manufacturers. And I'm the owner of 4Star and I've always been personally concerned about the impact our company has on the planet but also for the future of my children and my grandchildren. So I'm personally motivated to call that. We started our sustainability journey as a result of requests from large OEMs who asked us for compliance reporting on conflict minerals, ROHS, human trafficking reach, et cetera. And we wanted to develop a cost-effective way to respond to these requests without just rubber stamping the paperwork. Some of my competitors are less detail about that. They get the paperwork done and send it. And so we went to our CPA who is our business advisor and said, what can you do for us to help us with this challenge? Unfortunately, although my CPA is an excellent compliant CPA, he's not very well informed about sustainability issues and he thinks of it as a necessary evil part of doing business with publicly traded corporations. So we ended up having to go outside and we looked for and hired a sustainability consultant to help us with our challenge. But early on we realized that for a company of our size there is no real cost-effective solution. So we decided to apply for a workforce training grant to help subsidize some of the initial costs. And in 2018 we applied for and received approval for a $60,000 workforce training. It's a matching grant from the state of Massachusetts. We believe that this is the first workforce training grant ever funded in Massachusetts specifically for training personnel and sustainability. The training included basic training on the sustainability for all employees and then it moved into assessing our environmental impacts and carbon footprint. The outcome from this included writing our first sustainability report and also filing a carbon disclosure report. We've also worked to identify sources for raw material to address conflict minerals and human rights issues in the supply chain. With the grant money, we were able to hire a bunch of consultants. For instance, we used Bob Willard who introduced us to his ROI workbook which we used to track our activities. In addition, we hired Lorenda Rowledge at ECOS to help us with carbon disclosure reporting. We've contracted with measurable to track our utility usages so that we can have basically certified reporting on our utilities. We hired Paul Herman and HIP investors to evaluate our 401K for green and responsible investing, sustainable investing. And we have them actually update our 401K on an annual basis using a heat map to indicate green, yellow and red investments. And we've been able to move our investments over to more and more sustainable investing. So the outcome has been kind of two-fold. One, we've become a more socially responsible entity. We encourage our employees, our company and our employees to engage in our local community. So we support, AMVETS has a program where they do Thanksgiving and Christmas meals for veterans and we buy all the turkeys for them, for example. And then we're involved with Toys for Tots which everyone knows about. And we also do fundraising for a local homeless program for families that are homeless and get them back on their feet. So basically it's a way to get them off the streets and into permanent housing. But also within our facility we've done a bunch of retrofitting. So we've installed roof-mounted solar panels that produce 70% of our electricity reducing our monthly utility bills from 5,000 to under 1,000 a month. As part of that, we added LEDs to the entire facility and we also installed EV charging stations on the front of our building to allow EV owners to charge for free as a way to help build out additional infrastructure for that industry. We've worked to reduce and recycle our solid waste. We've incorporated sustainable initiatives into designs when we're working with customers for new product introductions. We've incorporated all of these sustainability initiatives into our corporate culture and have used sustainability messaging as part of our marketing efforts to appeal to green companies and customers also supply chain partners. And as a result, for example, we have a cardboard supplier who is really into recycled content. So we switched to them and they're actually providing us a way to get reusable packaging that we can offer to our customers instead of having throwaway packaging. But because of our sustainability initiatives, we've also engaged with customers that have similar value systems. For instance, we have a customer who has got a contract to upfit used UPS trucks to fully electric vehicles taking out the diesel engines and making them into electric vehicles. And also they're now offering a second product that will be used to do a similar retrofit for school buses. We have another customer that has a bolt-on regenerative power system for long haul trucks to allow the drivers to shut off the diesel engines at night and use battery power to heat and cool and power the cab. So all of this gives us a green identity which we believe is, it meets my personal requirements but we also believe that it helps with the enterprise value of my company. I'm in my sixties and I'm on my path to potentially either selling the company or whatever. And I believe that my overall value of my company is significantly improved by all of this. My ultimate goal is to solicit and win a new customer because of these sustainability initiatives and to prove that we can be sustainable but also add to our bottom line. So those are the two objectives. The reality is that customers are still only using sustainability initiatives as a tiebreaker when deciding to bring on a new supplier. It's not a determining factor, it's a tiebreaker. So unfortunately to this day, as long as we've been doing this, price point is still the most significant factor in selecting vendors. The good news is there's companies that are changing their thought process. And so I'm happy to hear that large companies are starting to use their buying power to effect change by using their spend to influence their social impact. Steve Young's company SAP is introducing an approach called buying with a purpose which should help companies like mine who have invested heavily in sustainability to grow their businesses. Steve, can you tell us more about your initiatives? Sure, yeah, and thanks Phil. Great to hear your company story and really appreciate you sharing everything. So at SAP, early last year, we went through this transformation within procurement to focus more on the purpose areas, right? Because purpose is at the core of SAP. So why not focus in all areas of business? So one of the key pillars was procurement with purpose. What does that mean? So procurement with purpose includes three areas, supplier diversity, sustainable procurement and social enterprises. So what we aim to do, one of the main objectives is just by basically start off by including more social enterprises and diverse suppliers in our supply chain, bringing them on board, getting them used to that B2B relationship, breaking that barrier of those misconceptions that these social enterprises are diverse suppliers can't hold their ground against the larger suppliers that we all come to trust. But also one thing that we are really focusing on is the capacity building of social enterprises. So through our partnership with Moving Worlds, together with our corporate social responsibility team, we are starting this program called SGRID. And that's Sustainable Growth in Revenues for International Development. So what this is basically for a company like Phil or any other organization trying to break into that B2B space, we're just trying to make it so that they have that equal opportunity or that it doesn't have to come down to just the fact that they're diverse or the fact that they're a social enterprise or sustainable. That is having that being a deciding factor or a tiebreaker is not what we really are here for. We're here to really prove that they can stand up and offer competitive offers. So this SGRID program, what it does is connects buyers, like many in our procurement organization and myself and any business colleague at SAP to any organization, any supplier within the program based on whatever need they have. So if they have a need for educating themselves on how to negotiate a contract or how to navigate technology, what technology to use, what is best out there for them, we really want to use the skills and knowledge that we have at SAP. And also, this is open to any corporate partner that wants to come on board and help drive the social procurement effort. We really want to go beyond the bottom line here and look to build those relationships. Because at the end of the day, those relationships are what really inspire that innovation, really inspire the change and the impact in our communities that we desperately need, especially now. So let me just take a few steps back. So Rebecca mentioned our new social procurement targets and a recent announcement. So Adair Fox Martin, our SAP executive board member, recently announced our 5 and 5 by 25 social procurement spend targets. What does that mean? So 5% of our addressable spend is going to be sourced through social enterprises while another 5% is sourced through diverse suppliers by the end of 2025. Now, I must emphasize the addressable spend topic. So addressable spend, you can look at it more so as opposed to global spend, like the whole picture, we're focusing on the markets and the categories that had the best opportunity to start. So really building up those areas and then eventually expanding further to the full global spend, but we want to make sure that we get these social enterprises and diverse suppliers corporate ready. Because that is oftentimes what hinders them from being awarded, because they're just not used to that large scale scope. But so, for example, what we have found in the three markets that we're in for social enterprises, Canada, UK, and Australia, is that the facility side is a huge opportunity for us, from cleaning services to catering. Also, marketing has some opportunities, especially digital media, a lot of opportunities with that as well. But one thing that we have to also take into consideration is a lot of buying organizations are trying to simplify. So instead of having tens of thousands of suppliers, they look to consolidate into a few, maybe a dozen or two dozen key strategic suppliers that can support their needs globally. So that's where we need to be a little more agile. So look at that's where we expand these efforts with those key strategic suppliers and go to that tier two level. So setting requirements, being that change leader that is needed for those suppliers to continue driving social spend. So whether it be having them adopt our five and five by 25 targets to allow for them to also spend directly with those organizations and also to help other partners and customers do the same. So that's just a little bit. So I mentioned that we're in three markets for social enterprises. We are do plan on expanding right now. It's not so much uncertainty. It's just a matter of making sure we're solid in those three markets. And also it's because those are what we found are those markets are not, I don't want to say not that's organized, right? Because Rebecca, you and your team have been doing a phenomenal job in the States. And honestly, without buy social USA, it still would be a very fragmented space. So at the end of the day, it comes down to that one voice, that one organization in a country saying this is what a social enterprise is. This is what qualifies you, right? Because every country has a variation of the definition of what a social enterprise is. So and a key driver for us is that we really need to focus on the certification side. We've still, even if they're self-identified social enterprises are diverse suppliers, that's great. Don't get me wrong. We still want to do business with you. But at the end of the day, if looking at it from the SAP point of view or any large corporate point of view in terms of data quality, like data integrity and how can we validate if they're not certified, right? And we get audited and all of a sudden they're like, oh, well, all that spend that you said was diverse is not diverse. So we're looking to kind of also use our technology to make it more easier, right? Because certifications cost money. And the last thing we want is to overburden a small organization because we're requiring a certification behind that. So we're trying to find new ways and opportunities for us to overcome. I wouldn't even call it a barrier. It's just more so overcoming that perception that self-identifying versus certified are two different areas when we could bring that all together. Um, what else? I'm trying to think of what else I haven't mentioned. So yeah, the 5 and 5 by 25 is going to be a huge undertaking, not going to lie. I'm really excited for it. But also it's going to present a lot of challenges, right? It's a change management side. So going to our lines of business saying, hey, look, we understand that you have your favorite suppliers, right? The ones we've been doing business with for five years, five years, or however many years. We're not asking you to just forget that relationship, right? Like I mentioned, the tier two side, we have that avenue. But also to think, go beyond that. Look at the impact that we're making. Let's say in an RP, a social enterprise offers that hasn't offered about like one or two percentage points higher in cost than the incumbent. But they provide that social impact report where you see your impact in thousands of lives. In a sense, that is savings, right? It's not monetary savings. It's not financial. But when you look at it, that's there's a existential benefit there, right? You're helping the community. You're helping create jobs. You're helping feed the homeless, whatever that impact might be. And then continuing to drive that. That's going beyond the bottom line. And that's what we're really trying to achieve here. And I also mentioned the whole technology side, right? So that's Amanda, like her company is amazing, right? I actually have been, over the last few weeks, have had a chance to speak with Amanda several times. And I must say, technology like that is what's going to help drive this change and this new area. I wouldn't even say it's actually new, right? Because it's been around for a while. But now it's finally starting to get the attention that it serves. And unfortunately, COVID is what really brought it to attention. But Rebecca, Amanda, would you mind just telling everyone what good market is, what exactly it can do for companies like SAP and how it overcomes the concerns in the US market in particular? Yeah, sure. Thank you. Thanks, Steven. I just want to start out by saying how grateful I am for the work that we have on both the producer, supplier side with the story Phil shared from 4-Star and the story from SAP on the buyer side, because that's what it's going to take. It's all of us making different choices that are going to start shifting things forward. It takes all of us working together on this. Yeah, so good market is it's an online platform and it's focused on enterprises that identify as purpose driven. So I think, Steven, as you referred to, it's like there's a movement coming up right now of enterprises and initiatives that are voluntarily choosing to prioritize people and planet over profit maximization. And it's big, it's growing, but it's still not fully visible because it's still fragmented, right? We have people working under very different names. We have different types of registration, different types of certification. We're divided up by sectors, right? So maybe people working on fashion aren't communicating with people in food and farming. So you have a lot of different divisions. You have groups that identify as social enterprises responsible businesses, those cooperatives. There's a lot of different kinds of things happening. So good market serves as kind of an infrastructure for this movement to make it easier for all of us to find and connect with each other. And that's kind of baked into all parts of the design. So it's about making it so their existing networks and community organizations are visible if there's software tools platforms like the SAP or Reba platform about making it easier to be connected altogether that we can see each other. So it's about making it more visible and making it easier for people in this space to be able to find and connect with each other across these divides. There's two main parts. It's curation and connection, right? So curation means that everyone has gone through there's minimum standards, very basic minimum standards. Everyone goes through an application and review process and there's a crowdsource monitoring system. And it's designed to work across languages, regions, different types of sectors so that we can all kind of see each other. That's kind of the idea with that. The connection piece is both marketplace connection so for trade and community connection being able to share information, get together and support each other and be able to collaborate on being able to push things and have campaigns and push for change. Yeah, so that's kind of the backgrounds of what the platform is and in a big way it's kind of focused on helping those groups be able to trade with each other. And I think where it really comes in on the social procurement side is being able to serve a bit of a pipeline as an incubator, right? Because a lot of the purchasing requirements often for corporations are bigger than what many of these initiatives are currently able to provide. By having a space like this where people are trading together it makes it much easier for them those that want to to be able to take it up to a level where they are able to supply a bigger requirement and things like that. So that's kind of one piece. It's the visibility piece. There's a pipeline and an incubator piece. And then the other part is kind of being able to see where we have ecosystem gaps. And there are a lot of ecosystem gaps. This is something we're all building together, right? And we're not there yet. We're working on it. So there's certain spaces where you find a lot more suppliers and service providers already. So you particularly things that are kind of consumer goods, right? You find more in housewares, fashion, food, farming travel, those kinds of spaces. You find a lot of enterprises. It's part of the reason I'm so excited by what Phil's doing with contract manufacturing because those are the types of things we start we need to start having more of, right? So we often have more gaps when it comes to equipment, manufacturing and logistics and all of those kinds of services. But the more that we're able to see where we have gaps in this ecosystem it makes it easier to point to them and it makes it easier for either enterprises to expand to those spaces or for new enterprises to come up and fill the gaps. So that's a really big part of the story. Yeah, and so I think that the main point that I would really wanna emphasize is the importance of taking an ecosystem perspective when we're looking at the challenge of social procurement, right? Because we know it's not easy, right? This is something that every single enterprise when you're making these choices it's something we're all going to have to work together to be able to fill in the gaps and fill in the pieces. And that's where I kind of wanted to bring in something from Rebecca on this because so good market serves as kind of this it's primary curation, right? It's a basic level. So it has groups that have third party certification you can find groups that are already certified but it has a lot of new it's serving as an incubator it has a lot of groups that maybe can't afford certification yet it's a pipeline of those groups but when it comes to something like social procurement there's some additional services that are needed, right? When there's a financial incentive to identify as say a social enterprise the chance of having social washing or greenwashing or things like that is much higher. You're gonna have groups that are claiming to be something because they're trying to access a financial opportunity or market opportunity. And in those cases we need to have some clear standards of this is exactly what it means here's the process for verifying it and having that kind of certification. And we also there need to be support services for being helping this is something Steven also was talking about helping those enterprises be procurement ready, right? What do we need to do? Good market is just a platform, right? But we need to have people that are out there that are helping those groups be ready to access buyers and be able to bid for contracts and things like that. So I think with that maybe I'll kind of hand it over Rebecca for you to be able to share a little bit about both society profits and also about my social. Yeah, thank you, Amanda. And you always put it so well. I love listening to you talk about this topic. So because it is really complex. And so I moved to the States six years ago having run social enterprises and been involved in the social procurement space in the UK since 2005, 2006. And the first thing that struck me when I moved to the US was there is no legal entity type for a social enterprise here. So it's really hard to identify those businesses. It's hard for organizations like SAP. It's actually hard for the social enterprises themselves to self identify because there aren't these legal structures that some other countries have for saying this is a social enterprise. So certification, we set up society profits to bring certification so that where there is not a legal entity there is common transparent standards for what is a social enterprise. So if an organization wants to become a certified social enterprise in the US, they have to adhere to certain standards. So they have to say that more than 50% of their profit is reinvested in impact for people on planet. They have to be an asset locked organization that's only going to use that profit for those purposes forever, not controlled by a, for private profit entity. They have to be able to demonstrate that they are revenue generating because a lot of nonprofits are social enterprises. So you could be a nonprofit selling goods and services and be able to be a social enterprise as well because more than 50% of your revenue is coming from selling those goods and services. So there are all of these standards that I think certification is so key in the US as you say when there's this market opportunity and helping people to identify from both the buyer and the seller point of view I think is really, really important. Then we set up by social USA. And I know Stephen you're saying like it's great that we exist, we're really young. You know, we got started at the end part of 2019 because we could see that there was a need. There was all of this fragmented networks that Amanda was just talking about. So there are thousands of social enterprises in the country. There are thousands more impact sellers, Phil's company, lots of other companies that are doing amazing things and they're not really connected to each other. So working through good market to help sort of bring this initial funnel of people all together is the first piece. What my social USA is doing is working with, so we're creating this network of networks if you like of these impact sellers around the country and specifically not trying to duplicate what other people are doing, just help the process come together as a collective force and be more visible and learn from each other and connect people. So we're an intermediary between buyers and sellers. And what we're doing is working with local infrastructure organizations all over the country. So Social Enterprise Alliance, for example, has 17 chapters around the US that are collections of social enterprises altogether. So we would work with them, for example, they can set up a network on good market, they can bring their social enterprise sellers into that network. And then we have everybody in one place where we can start connecting that network with a network. So let's say one of the networks is here in Michigan where I am, we can connect them with one in Minnesota, we can connect them with one in San Francisco. We can help with doing things like collective selling. So when you have an organization like SAP, as you said, Stephen, you might be looking for large contracts, if we can bring together, let's say you have a contract for buying coffee from social enterprise or impact sellers. We can bring together six different coffee suppliers that are certified from around the country, and we can help them collectively bid for a procurement contract. We can help also, as Amanda said, to identify gaps in the market. So yes, we need more organization like fills that are actually giving us much more of a diverse range of goods and services. So I think altogether what we're trying to do is bring together these fragmented silos, support the sellers to become procurement ready, and support the buyers to find those sellers as well because big organizations, small organizations, there was no one collective place to find them until Good Market came along and gave us this one place that we could bring all of those people together. So really that's the drive for us. And I think what we need, one of the reasons for doing this session today even, was to appeal to businesses around the country and say, this is a way, lots of people are talking about, how can we build back better after COVID, after the death of George Floyd, all of these different challenges that we're facing? And one of the ways that we can build back better is to buy better. So vote with our wallet, use our purchasing power to create impact because research from other countries has shown us that if you purchase $100 worth of goods and services from an impact company, it creates up to $450 of local impact in a community. Through reducing taxpayer spend on support services, through community regeneration, support for people, all of those organizations that Phil was talking about earlier, that his organization works with, you're impacting your local community that people most in need just through the work, the everyday work of your organization because you're choosing to focus on the purpose and the impact. And I think that's what we're really looking for with, by SocialUSA is we have this great relationship starting to build with organizations like SAP and many others around the country. We also would like to be working with other forward thinking, corporations, governments, anchor institutions who see the need for this and would like to come forward and say, yes, we'd like to be involved, help us to find suppliers that we can buy from. And I think that in turn will help us to bring visibility so that the suppliers can see that there is a demand side as well and that will bring them forward too. So that's really what we're working on as an ecosystem and it is a slow process. I mean, so Stephen, do you know how long SAP's been working on developing social procurement in the other countries that you talked about earlier, you were saying? So back early 2019 is when we started in the UK with the Biosocial Corporate Challenge. So, you know, it was essentially like a round table of corporate partners in the UK that are members of Social Enterprise UK, you know, just coming together to solve that problem and to incorporate more social enterprises into their networks. In Canada and Australia, it was, you know, later in 2019 when we started engaging with them. Now the UK is a little farther along than Australia and Canada in terms of maturity, but what I've seen, especially with Biosocial Canada is that they're growing very quickly and that they have, and same with social traders too, like they have ambitions to, you know, like every other organization similar to this and just like Biosocial USA, they want to change the world, right? And that is a very powerful, powerful idea. And as we get into other markets, that's one thing that we have to focus heavily on is the maturity of it, right? Like the maturity of the organizations, do they have a network? Is it, do they have any corporate-ready suppliers? Is it looking at what categories that they're in? Are they also office supplies? And one thing I do want to mention, Rebecca, to your point about like looking at like the larger contracts, that's one small piece because when you look at our tailspin or like low value, like no one wants to put any strategic priority to it, like office supplies or any type of MRO, that's where we're gonna see a lot of opportunities there because there are a lot of office supplies out there. There are divers that are social, right? And that have that impact. So that's, I think, and with advances in technology and also creating a diversity or social marketplace within our own technology, it's going to be a game changer, I feel. So yeah, I think it all depends how much you want it, right? Like, and that will determine how far you not only develop your organization and how much you shift your spend to social, but also how much you impact the communities, how much you can help the social enterprise grow itself. And that's it. Thank you. I would encourage people to ask questions if they want to in the chat. You don't have to come on the session with us, but we're happy to answer any questions that you might have on the topic of social procurement. In the meantime, I would like to ask a question of Phil maybe. There are a few things, we had a conversation the other day and there are a few things that came up that I thought were really valuable and kind of particularly with this crowd worth sharing. And one was related to this idea that only publicly traded companies do sustainability reports. So I think that kind of the point about taking a decision as a smaller business or a privately owned business to be able, what was the motivating factor, I think is really interesting. And also there was a piece you shared about your own choices, about who you're partnering with. This almost becomes a filter or a way that you look at, is this even a group that we want to work with? Would you mind sharing a little bit about that? Sure. Yeah, so as I mentioned in my presentation, the motivating factor initially was compliance. Our publicly traded companies are pushing down in their supply chain and saying, hey, we've got to report this on our 10K or whatever. So we need feedback from our supply chain partners. And so that was the motivating factor initially, but basically I think a little bit is, the stock market is driving the publicly traded companies. They're saying you have to, it's all about risk management. And if you're not looking at sustainable risks, things around climate change, et cetera, then you're not giving a full picture of your risk. So when you're doing your filing, but also it isn't just your company, it's the companies that you buy from that are part of your supply chain. And you need to know what they're doing and you need to understand what they're doing. So our thought process is that we're gonna get asked this anyway. So why don't we be proactive? And maybe it'll become attractive to some companies that say, wow, you guys are already doing everything we need you to do rather than them pushing us to get that information. So that's kind of how we take on everything. If we take something on, we're gonna do it the right way, not just because it's being imposed on us by our customers. So I think that that's a factor. With regard to the culture change, after we started looking at that, we go, well, how many other companies are doing this? So we're kind of comparing ourselves. And so if we get a request for a quote from a new company that we've never done business with, we immediately go to their website to see if they have a sustainability page. Cause if they don't, it's like, really, how can they not have anything about, not even a reference to sustainability? And so we go, well, maybe we really don't wanna do business with these people because of it. And what happens is that there's a, when you do find that they have, let's say a high visibility on sustainability, then you have a value that you can talk to them about. And we think it's a competitive advantage. I mean, some of our competitors don't have a clue about sustainability and we're so much further ahead. And so we engage with them when we find that they have initiatives on their website related to sustainability. We bring that into the conversation very early in the process. And then they're intrigued by what we're doing and we do a lot of sharing of that. It feels powerful, but I wanna caution you, I made that statement at the end of my presentation. To this day, I don't have a single customer that I can point to and say, we got that customer because of our sustainability. It hasn't come. I think we've won some pieces of business because of the value system and it became the tiebreaker, but it's still all about price. So it's enlightening that we have big companies that have big spend saying, we're gonna allocate a portion of our spend so that we can bring these type of supplies into our supply chain. And that's gonna give, it's kind of like what they did with minority companies back, government contracts and all that. That's kind of where we are at this point in our journey. And hopefully at some point, it'll grow beyond that, beyond just an allocation. I mean, I respect the fact that Steve's company is gonna do 5% but what if it was 25% or 50% that would be the ideal scenario. So, we think we're on the cutting edge of it, but again, we can't point to a specific piece of business that said, we want you in our supply chain. We need to have you in our supply chain. It's still, okay, your price is good and you do sustainability. So that's a deciding factor, unfortunately. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that, Steven. You know, talking about that idea of price point and so on. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, right? Yeah, as a, with any company, you have to look out for your bottom line in a sense, but one thing that I've kind of looked at to help cure with purpose area is it's complete disruptor, right? Just like blockchain, just like any other disruptive technology. This is a disruptive process now and technology just supported like with good marketing and others. But I would say like with any type of disruption, if one looks at it's like, oh, well, that's a bad thing, right? And so that like any something like pricing becomes magnified 100% is like, oh, well, they're smaller. Their pricing is just one or 2% points higher. Like, sorry, can't go that high. It's like, that's where you have to go beyond that and look at the value, not value in terms of the commercials, value in terms of the impact. And that's what I'm trying to foster here at SAP. And thank you, like I mentioned earlier, purposes at the core of SAP. So since Adair made that announcement on five by 25, it's been hundreds of employees like a week, just new people. I've never met the four colleagues that have been with SAP for almost as long as I've been alive are coming to me asking like what they can do to help. What can they do? And it's like, okay, well, in your buying decisions, if you're even in our catalog looking for like an HDMI cable, look who it's coming from, right? Cause the demand comes from the employee, right? So at a certain point we're going to reach, you know, that point where people are going to be like, well, I don't care how much it costs. It's $5 more. And let me go with the social supplier, right? And that is going, I think that'll happen very quickly. And in today's, you know, type of environment where, you know, it's both good and bad at really intense paces. And I think we're going to see, I mean, could always Trump's evil. So let's think more about what we buy and how we buy it and who we buy it from and stop looking at just the price and beyond that and look at the impact. Yeah. I just want to add in something there. And it's actually one of the reasons I'm really excited about this conference, right? For a long time, if people were talking at a corporate level about sustainability, it's CSR or it's a separate sustainability director. And this is completely different. This is mainstreaming it. This is about decisions being made by the finance team by purchasing, by procurement. Like this is where the shift starts to happen. It's something where it's part of all of the choices, all of the decisions we're making. And to hear that you had other employees from SAP be excited and ask how they can help, that's a sign that, you know, this is the direction we're moving in. It's not easy, but it's the direction we're moving in. It's not easy, especially when it's as disruptive as normal. But like in a sense, it really isn't. Like people think it's like adding more work to what they're already doing. No, it's just adding like it's complimentary to what we're already doing, right? So instead of just focusing on your key strategic suppliers, here's a list of social enterprises. Yeah, I mean, buying social does mean buying local. So that global strategic supplier that you're trying to get, you're like they're not going to find that very easily with a social enterprise or diverse supplier or a business like Phil's focusing on sustainability. However, how can they grow into that without engaging with them, without working with our money with them? So it has to start somewhere and thankfully, you know, it feels like we're finding that right place where we're going to see that mountain drop in size for us to climb. So it's so good to hear. And I think, you know, the conversations that I'm having, especially at a government level, you know, so talking to city government or state government and I've had some really interesting conversations that have changed as COVID has become more and more of an issue as well. You know, people have been thinking more about this and probably initially a lot of the conversation I was having was with government buyers was, well, does this just fall under our CSR? You know, and really we're just interested in the cheapest thing. And that has taken a real shift recently and I've been approached by more government procurement teams saying, oh, actually somebody from our impact team has asked us to come and talk to you from the procurement side of things because maybe we were already looking at buying locally, but now we're seeing that actually if we buy with impact in mind as well in that supply chain that we can make more difference in our communities. We can, you know, we can create better things for people and planets. So I do see a shift happening definitely at the government level, not so much in, I was talking with a big hospital quite recently and they said, no price. So I'm hoping that these things change and really that's the whole point of sharing stories about the impact that's made and the difference we're making because I think the more people understand what's created when you purchase differently, the more it's an easier conversation to have about bringing in different suppliers into your supply chains anyway. Rebecca, if I may, an example of how things are changing, when we did our first evaluation of our 401K with Paul Herman and HIP Investor, we discovered that there wasn't a lot of green investments that in our plan that would either equal or outperform other investments, other what we call bad or non-green investments, but Paul enlightened us that there are these investments available. And so we've moved towards some of those, but some of the restrictions on that, and in fact, now some of these investments are outperforming the market, which is the good news. But the next restriction came because our provider, John Hancock, couldn't offer them because they weren't big enough in the financial structure. It wasn't enough volume to offer it on their platforms. And I think those days are coming too. So first we used to have to take a discount on earnings to be able to invest in green and now we can outperform the market. And soon these investments are gonna get big enough that they're gonna be available on large platforms. And so there is hope. It starts with the type of things that we've talked about today, but it will move in the right direction if we have enough momentum, enough cooperation among entities and having both on the provider side and on the buyer side is the critical thing. And it's a matter of marrying those two entities and getting the benefits that we're looking for. So as much as it feels a little bit overwhelming and it's gonna take time, it's gonna happen. I've seen it in that investment side and I think it's gonna happen. I'm hoping I don't retire before I get that first customer that says, I want you in my supply chain. So we'll see. I can feel it. You deserve it. Yeah, I do think that is a shifting demand from the consumer as well. I mean, I think especially, I have a 14-year-old. He and his friends are so conscious of what are we buying? Who is it coming from? What does that company do? Are they extractive? I love listening to them talk about the way they see the world, the way they're looking at society and saying, yeah, I don't wanna buy from that company because they actually don't treat their work as well. Or they actually have invested in child labor in other countries, things like that. So I think they are the buyers of the future and it's gonna keep shifting in that direction for sure. We have a question. How could we bring SMEs in? They are normally not in the stable supply chain system. Who wants to take that one? I guess I can take that. So how can we bring in SMEs? I mean, it would follow with any other, like bringing in a minority supplier, bringing in a woman-owned business or a social enterprise into your supply chain. First, you got to be able to find, to identify them. If you already have them identified, it really comes down to working with them, identifying where those gaps are, like what maybe sit down in a session with them and outside of any type of business deal and just say, hey, what is wrong, right? That's a good more detail than that. But also it's just about making their worth known to any stakeholder, right? If they're constantly just not being awarded any type of bid or even if it's like an RFQ, right? There's just, the pricing doesn't match up to others. You know, it's about, you know, also time. As much as I don't want to say it takes time, it just got to continue to push, be persistent, right? It's not going to happen every single time. You're not going to be able to find an SME or a diverse supplier or whoever for every single opportunity. It's about finding that right opportunity, that right fit for that SME to bring them into your supply chain. So go beyond what you think that they can do and try to find new opportunities for them. And I think you'd be surprised in how you can incorporate them into your supply chain. And also go to your tier one suppliers, right? Go to the Accentures, go to all of them and just ask, hey, what are you doing in terms of sourcing through with SMEs, right? And if they're not depending on what they say or when I'm just set requirements with them, just be upfront and say, hey, all right, out of our spend with you, we want to source 10%, 15, five, however much is suitable for your company. You know, so that's, there are more ways than just that direct engagement with them to bring them into your supply chain. Yeah, and I think Amanda, to your point earlier as well, I mean, this is where an organization like yours comes in as well, helping people become connected and visible. Yeah, I mean, again, it's coming back to like thinking of it from a big picture ecosystem perspective. So there's a bunch of pieces, right? There's groups out there that are intermediaries that do capacity building support to help groups like my social USA to help groups get procurement ready. So that's one piece is being able to match up with that. There's also, I mean, exactly what SAP is doing saying we're gonna spend, you know, maybe we can't do all of our purchasing from this group, but we're gonna allocate, you know, a smaller amount, a single store, a single office so that we can start to bring up these groups. That's another way that's really valuable. And there's also a lot happening now with aggregation, right? So the more that we have these networks and services that we're able to help bring a couple of SMEs together to be able to meet a bigger contract. So it's a mix of things. There's things that are happening both on the supplier side and things that have to happen and how the buyers are working. You know, just, I'm seeing there's a question also about, you know, hospitality, restaurant and Cisco. That's exactly the same thing, right? So it's like, Cisco, it's like, you're able to get every single thing from one source, right? And there isn't yet a social enterprise or an impact-oriented distributor that's at that scale. So if we're gonna try and build up that ecosystem, part of it is saying, okay, well, maybe this particular product line, we're going to buy locally from impact-oriented businesses. It's a smaller amount. Maybe for this single restaurant outlet, we're going to allow them to do purchasing from a different channel. It's finding ways to kind of, we're bridging a gap, right? Creating a new market is hard and it takes a little bit from both sides, right? So, yeah, it's a combination of things. Definitely, and I think that there are examples, Jeff, to your question about examples of this happening in the hospitality or restaurant industry. And I agree with you about Cisco, but I think one of the things that's happening is that there are other organizations. So for example, Foodbuy, who are part of Compass Group, they've been globally doing social procurement in other parts of the world and now they're looking to bring that to the US. So they're starting to look at their supply chains. They're starting to talk with us about how can they source from social enterprises through the work that we're doing as well. And there are equally all sorts of amazing food-based social enterprises around the country. The Town Kitchen is a great example of one in Oakland that supports young people mostly from foster care to get jobs in the hospitality industry and they run this amazing catering company and incredible cafes and so on as well. There are lots and lots of those examples around the country. There are organizations like Fierce Recruiting who supply staff for events. So here in Detroit, they supply staffing for the Detroit Lions or whatever and they're employing inner city youth who are struggling to get employment or struggling to get good education and they're helping them with wraparound services that support the rest of their life. So I think there are some fantastic things. The other thing about the Cisco's of this world is that they are being asked what they are doing and this is why consumers have to demand it because when a consumer, you know when somebody who wants to contract with Cisco says what are you doing Cisco to make a difference in your supply chain? They have to knock that down the line into their suppliers so they are sourcing differently and we're seeing that in Canada there's some great examples in Canada where Cisco is purchasing differently through social enterprises with Bisocial Canada's help because they were being forced to by being asked by colleges there what are you doing with your supply chain? So I think it is all about this supply and demand. The buyers have to be just as much investing as we said. Took the words right out of my mouth Rebecca. I'm aware that we're at a time I think yesterday there was like a speakers room. Afterwards I'm happy to go there for a little bit and see if anybody wants to ask more questions but if not I just want to thank everybody for your time. Thank you to all our speakers and feel free to reach out to any of us. We connect on LinkedIn, whatever to find out more if you want to learn more. Thank you so much. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Have a great day.