 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this motherfucking episode of Mind Pump, of Mind Pop, for the first 45 minutes, We're hallucinating. We do our introductory conversation before we get into the fitness stuff. We start out by talking about kinesthetic hallucinations. That's a real thing. It's a new term I learned. It's pretty cool. We talk about how people can perceive pain or Feeling leprechaun. Create pain psychosomatically. We talk about medical marijuana and pain. And my Everly Well test. Now Everly Well is a company that provides hormone testing and food intolerance testing and other types of testing online. You actually get these kits. They're very inexpensive. You take the test. You mail it in on your own. No doctors. And then you get your results. That'll help you direct your nutrition and all that stuff. And we also have a hookup exclusively for Mind Pump listeners. Let's hook them up. Yeah. If you go to EverlyWell.com, enter the code Mind Pump. You'll get 15% off any test. We also talk about the Juve light and Adam's hair. It's coming back. Running from Bosley. It's coming back, my friends. Taylor's really got it out for you, bro. Yeah, he is, dude. He's coming out to me right now. This is the red light therapy. If you go to juvejovv.com forward slash Mind Pump, you will get a discount because we hooked you up again. We talked about Justin's son driving in ATV. What is he like, seven? Eight years old. Oh, my bad. My bad. I thought I was too young. Yeah, right. We talk about Lane Norton, our good friend, poking at our other good friend. Actually, Adam said his better friend. Let's duke it out. We're going to have a celebrity death match on Mind Pump. Can we bring those back? Yeah, we should. Right? He's poking at Ben Greenfield. What's going on here? Should they duke it out? Who would win in that fight? Greenfield. An actual fist fight? Oh, Greenfield, bro. I got Greenfield. Have you seen his hands and his limbs and shit? Lane's strong, but yeah. It's not a deadlifting competition. His movement's a little suspect. There's a deadlifting competition. Lane's got him. For sure. We talked about childhood cancer and the hyper clean environment. This is actually quite scary. They're connecting a hyper clean environment to childhood leukemia. And then we talked about the radium girls, the random factor. The radium girls. This is some 1927 knowledge. You guys didn't know? You remembered the year, dude. It's only been an hour. Wow. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, do we think parents should punish any and all underage drinking? Or should we allow our children to drink a little bit under our room? I make them drink the whole bottle. This took us down the rabbit hole. This was a good one. Definitely did. The next question was, very simply, how do you create the perfect program? And it maps that. We actually give you all the secret. Maps, unicorn. The secrets in this part of the episode. You know that Craig just created, it's so funny you just said that. You know Craig created a program called the unicorn? No, he didn't. Yes, he did. Wow. Our boy Craig. Shout out to Craig. The next question was, has CrossFit as a whole done more harm or more good for the fitness industry? Do we all agree on this or not? We're getting a little debate on this one. Kind of a coin toss. And finally, That always lands on no. The last person that we answer is trying to lose 30 pounds of baby weight a year and a half postpartum. Is this still considered baby weight if it's a year and a half after? I don't think so. I don't think so. It might just be body fat. Anyway. You know why didn't we call that out? I didn't realize it either. We just did 18. You're doing the math. I have clients like, hey, how do I lose this baby weight? Oh, how old is your baby? Seven. Yeah, she's 17. You're working on it. That's not baby weight. A trainer at their gym. Nah, you're just fat now. Said they should do super high reps over a heavy weight. And is that correct advice or is their trainer wrong and should they listen to mind pump? Some good advice here, though. Listen to the mind pump. You should. Also, this month, get the intuitive nutrition guide and the fasting guide for, ready for this? How much does it cost? Free. It's free. Costs nothing. You get it nothing for free. Go to mindpumpmedia.com. Get those two things for free. Oh, here's the catch. Doll hairs. I hope you didn't go there before I said this part. You have to enroll. You have to buy something. You have to enroll in one of our bundles. We're not that nice. Now our bundles are where we take multiple maps, programs, put them together and then we're crazy. We slash the price. Slash it 30% off. So for example, imagine him with a machete. Yeah. I was thinking about those those used car commercials where they're slashing things. Yes. Slashing the prices. Look, if you go on mindpumpmedia.com and enroll in a super bundle, Adam will eat his hat. Anyway, we discount them. If we multiple programs and put them together like the super bundle, which is a year of exercise programming. We also have the prime and prime pro bundle which we talk about in this episode at our website or on our website mindpumpmedia.com Enroll in any bundle. Get the intuitive guide. Get the fasting guide for free. Go do it now. I learned a new phrase the other day. What's that? This is a fucking great phrase. I can't wait to use this in a sentence. Kinesthetic hallucination. Kinesthetic hallucination. Yes. So I read this incredible article on pain. As I say, it's like you perceiving you have pain when you really don't. Yes. So I read this incredible article on pain and how it's pretty much impossible. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely or extremely difficult to separate how you, your pain from how you feel about your pain. So you create this emotion around the pain and then that changes completely how we perceive the pain. It reminds me of that Ted talk where the guy was talking about getting bit by a rattlesnake in his ankle. Oh yeah, that's right. And then as he was walking barefoot again in the same kind of situation stepped on a twig and it snapped and it sounded like it reminded him immediately of that pain and he thought for sure he got bit. Dude, it's just, by the way, this is a massive part of your pain. And I think the reason why there's a stigma around it is when you talk about, when I say kinesthetic hallucination or I say your feelings around the pain or I say psychosomatic, people think, oh, you're disregarding me. You're saying I don't hurt, it's not real. It's just, it's real. It's not real, but the fact that we don't address it. You know how many people, I was reading this article, I can't remember the statistics, but so many people suffer from so much pain around these pain medications when a big chunk of it is really their perception and emotion around the pain itself. And this is why so much pain can be treated with behavioral therapy or SSRI drugs, antidepressants. People will have less pain. Or they'll do studies where some of my favorite studies where they'll do surgery on people with chronic knee pain. They'll do surgery, but they'll test out a placebo where they'll open the knee up and then just sew it back up and not do anything to the knee. And the same amount of people have that compared to people who actually have the knee surgery feel good. So they'll see the scar and be like, oh, my knee feels so much better since you did that surgery. And then afterwards, we'll be like, we actually didn't do anything. Well, don't you think too, that's where all these gimmicky products come about because it's like, it does work for certain people because they literally believe it. And it kind of reminds me not to knock human garage or anything, but definitely like a lot of wizardry was going on. You know, like a lot of cues and a lot of like suggestive language that put people in a mindset where they're like, oh, now my body's reset. Everything's great. And now I'm not feeling that pain anymore. And it's like reiterating those points to the person was so important because they had to little believe it. Well, as I was reading this article, I was thinking about it to myself and I know you guys have had clients like this before too, where you train somebody who's never worked out or maybe there's a particular type of personality that falls into this category, but they have like zero tolerance for like the pain that comes from exercise. You know what I mean? Like, oh my God, I can't do this. Oh, it hurts so bad. They literally can't handle that kind of pain. And then I think of myself and because I've been exercising for so long, the pain associated with resistance training, I have zero problem with it. It doesn't, not only does it not, do I perceive it as not bad, but I actually perceive it as good. So I actually get like, I love it. I enjoy the feel of lifting heavy weights and that kind of pain. Whereas other people- I don't even, that doesn't even register as pain to me. That's what I mean. It's like, it's muscle soreness, which to me, it feels good in comparison to like what pain feels like. It's a completely different association. Yeah. Which I think too, like that's another part of the process, right, is like changing that association with the pain. But to Sal's point, I've had many clients that I've trained that, you know, thought they were in pain after, you know, if someone that was like never trained before and you work them out, and then the next day, they're like freaking out at you like, what did you do? Yeah, what did you do to me? I'm hurt. I hurt my biceps hurt. They're in pain. It's like- Well, sometimes I'm sure it's a big shock, you know, to the system if it hasn't experienced like that kind of resistance and, you know, force. Well, especially if you have fear kind of going into it too, right? Yeah. Like if you already have doubt, you already have fear. It also reminds me of like when you ever do, you ever done something where you like slam your finger in a door like really fast. It's so, it happens so fast, like to register it hurts, doesn't register until you look at it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? There's throbbing. Yeah. Like bleeding all over the place, but then, but until you looked at it, the pain really wasn't set- That was that part of that example I brought with the snake. It was that he didn't really feel the pain because he thought initially it was just he stepped on a stick. Yeah. But then it registered later when he saw the puncture wound, marks and all that. And then, oh my God, all of a sudden this rush of pain came in. Yeah, it's, you know, it's things like phantom limb syndrome, you know, so fascinating to me. And for people who don't know what that is, this is when somebody has an amputated limb as the most common example. Like, let's say you lose your left arm and then they will, so they have literally no arm, right? No left arm, but they will feel tremendous pain in their quote unquote imaginary left arm. So although they have no left arm, they feel like they have an arm and it hurts and usually what it feels like. Now, this is common with people who have had an arm most of their life and then lost it. Right, right, right. Because that makes sense. That's not someone who's born. That makes sense to me because they've had this, they have had a memory of for... There's a neural pathway there. For thousands of days of, you know, being connected there and moving there and then to cut that off completely. It's like... But it's just, it highlights, because what they'll do is they'll, inevitably, if they do have phantom limb syndrome, it feels, what they'll say is it feels like their arm is in this curled up, clenched, just painful throbbing position and nothing you can do takes the pain away. Pain killers, nothing takes it away. And then years ago, they discovered that if they put their, you know, their body up to a, what's called a mirror box so that they could see the right arm, the one that they actually have reflected into this box so they could perceive that they now have another left arm, except it looks like it's open and relaxed. Then the pain mysteriously disappears. But this just highlights how complicated pain is and how, yes, there's definitely signals you get from the afflicted area, but it's the perception of that pain that is what makes you feel it or whatever. And a lot of that is your emotion. Jessica had an experience like this not that long ago. She heard her shoulder, you know, doing the silks, which changed her life. She did the silks. It was like the first physical athletic thing that she did. She realized that she was very strong, very athletic. She identified very strongly with it. Shoulder became inflamed and she created bad recruitment patterns, probably caused an actual problem, which meant she could no longer do the silks. So that was a very traumatic experience for her because she had identified so strongly with it. And so now she has this dysfunction in her shoulder, but the emotion surrounding it is made it much worse or turned into like this very depressive type, you know, depression type thing. And then later on when she met me and we're doing all this correctional exercise and whatever, after a while I'm like, your shoulder's moving okay now. Unless you push it really hard, you don't have dysfunction. Everything seems to be moving fine. You've got good mobility for the most part and we couldn't figure out what the fuck it was. And we had this conversation, this exact conversation. And it was difficult because when I brought it up to her, of course, and I would feel the same way. I'd be like, what, you think I'm just making this up? It's not real? Like, well, no, that's not the point. The point is that you've had these emotions surrounding it. It could be that you're perceiving it differently than it is. I don't even think it means that she's perceiving it different as much as it could just mean that it's more painful than what it should be because you're attached to that, right? Well, here's what happened. She started processing it and God bless her, very smart self-aware person enough to examine this because I could totally see how being in that situation, you wouldn't even examine it because you'd feel like you were being told that you're being dismissed or whatever. But she did, she examined it, thought about it and processed it and it literally evaporated, like gone. And I remember her texting me, like I was thinking about what you were saying, everything, and then my pain just went away. And then it came back like a week later, she did that processing again and it went away again and never came back, never came back. Now, she still has issues with her shoulder if we push it too hard, it'll start hurting her, but not like it was before, it was this chronic problem that she had for like two or three years. And it just trips me out and I read this whole article, we should put it in the show notes, I'll make sure to send it to Jackie. But we don't treat pain at all in that context. You go to the doctor for pain and let's see if there's a structural problem and if there is we'll do surgery or rehab and then if we don't see a structural problem but you still feel pain, we're gonna put you on opiates. We're gonna put you on some opiates and then hope for the best or whatever and now we have this opiate addiction problem and stuff like that. But it's pretty crazy stuff. On that note, I've got some interesting other statistics for you. The journal of pain, the official journal of the American Pain Society reported in June of 2016 results from a University of Michigan study. They found that medical marijuana patients were able to reduce their opiates for pain by over 50%. That was on average. And there was another study done in Israel where 44% of patients with chronic pain were able to stop taking prescription opiate drugs within seven months of using medical marijuana. Then there's another study that found that the majority of people now that are starting to use medical marijuana, only 4% of it are using it to get high. The vast majority of them are using it to treat some kind of ailment and replace some kind of drug. You're trying to say that only 4% of people that are smoking weed are trying to just do it recreational. 4% of the new users. Oh, okay, new users. Yeah, new users that are starting to use it I mean, that's not that surprising, right? Because the majority of the people that have been smoking weed have been smoking weed because they like to smoke weed regardless of the pros or cons of it. And the few won't stop few. It's probably millions now. People that are coming on board and trying cannabis now are doing it because of all the research that's coming out. Yeah, and a lot of them are using it to replace... Because think about it this way. I forgot what the number was. Something like 60-something percent of Americans over the age of 30 or something like that. And I don't know the exact statistic. Maybe Doug can look it up. It's a big chunk of Americans use prescription drugs on a pretty regular basis. Whether it's for anxiety, depression, pain, whatever. And most of the people who are using marijuana as it becomes legal... Because I feel like these people who didn't use it before were afraid because it was illegal. But now that it's legal, they're like, I'm going to try this out, right? I think as far as the actual experience of it, maybe they tried it way back in the day, but it was like the paranoia. And there wasn't a lot of knowledge being passed around as far as what strains and combinations... And I never even heard of terpenes until we met with doses. And their process with that just to make it more user-friendly as far as an experience. If you're going for something that's going to relieve pain, there's actually a good formula for that. Not just like, oh, here's some weed. Yeah, no, I agree. Dude, it's going to be so disrupting because opiate use and sales are in the billions. I mean, it's such a massive market in America. So imagine what can potentially happen to that market with... Well, it's already happening. I mean, every state that it's legal and the opiate use has been on a rapid decline for some time now and all these other medications, too. Hey, you know what I wanted to ask, if one of you guys had done the Everly test yet? Oh, the Everly well? Yeah, did you do that yet? I did mine. Oh, you have done it? Yeah, so, dude, it's super easy. So what you do... So I did the testosterone one, so I'm not sure if all of them are the same, but the testosterone one... Is it saliva? Is it pee? What is it? Saliva. Oh, it's just saliva? Yeah, so you wake... First thing in the morning, within the first 30 minutes of waking up, they give you this little tube. It's about, I don't know, three inches long, maybe two inches long, and then you spit in it, and you have to fill the tube up about 75% with saliva. Don't drink any water, don't brush your teeth, just right when you wake up. So I did it this morning at like 5... 5.10 in the morning. And you just spit in the cup, you seal it, you write your name on it, you register your kit online, which is super easy, you just type in the code or whatever, and then you mail it in. And that's it. Oh, wow, that easy. That's it. You mail it in and then you get your results. So I don't know if I told you guys this, but I did an Everly Well Test last year in June or July. Let me pull it up. Does it keep your old stats? Yeah, so I'm going to compare the two. I want to compare the two to see if... let me see if I can log in here. I want to give you guys my results. I want to do the Testosteron. When I had the food allergy or food sensitivity test, and so that one you actually have to like extract some blood for that one. Just a pinprick, right? Just a little pinprick. But, yeah, so I wanted to do that actually for my son. I didn't know, you know, as far as like with kids like using it for that, but I don't have to ask for that. But yeah, I'm definitely going to do the Testosteron so you want to know. Okay, so I did my last one in July, on July of 2017. Now, the reason I did it, I don't know if I ever shared with you guys. I don't think I did. The reason why I did it was back in last year, I was just, I felt like my Testosteron maybe was low or something was off. My libido wasn't like it normally was. I wasn't feeling myself. And I think it was just lots of stress, lots of processing. You know, after I got divorced, there's like phases of difficult periods. Like there's the initial period and then you feel better and then it hits you again and whatever. And I think that was part of it and organizing the kids and all that stuff. So I was feeling kind of shitty. So I took this test and my results then were, I was basically right in the middle for each testosterone of the range, which I guess is normal. It says I'm normal, but I feel like that was lower than what I'm normally. Do they give you a range of what they say? Yeah, so they standard 400 to 1200. Yeah, no, they use a different range. Yeah, I think it's saliva. So the range that they use is between 49 and 185. And I don't know what PG stands for. PG per milliliters. I'm not quite sure what that stands for. My number last year was 103, which is kind of in the middle, you know, not low, not high, kind of right in the middle. Is that really in the middle? It sounds like you said 49 to what? 49 to 185. So it's like a lower end of the middle. You know, I called them. I'm like, what does that mean? They're like, no, it's fine. It's totally normal. But I feel like it was low for picograms per milliliter. Thanks, Doug. What the fuck is a picogram? I don't know. It's like a gram, but it's a pico. It's a pico. Pico, pico. I feel like it's a smaller... Sounds really small. I have no idea. Well, I'm excited. Oh, it's one trillionth of a gram. Hey, pico, we're on a measure. That's crazy. I've never even heard of a picogram. Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see if my testosterone level, because now I feel better than I did back then. So it'll be interesting to see if my testosterone levels are higher. The only thing that sucks for me is that I didn't do this before, so it's going to be hard to see where... Yeah, comparative data. Right, right. But nonetheless, I'm really interested because I've been trying to stay away from the test for a while just so I could put some work in. Like I don't want it to... It's like when you start working out again. Saying like you don't want to get on the scale. I don't want to take any pictures. Yeah, it's like I don't... So I get close. Yeah, give me some momentum here. That's been kind of like my thought process with all this. Let me get into the rhythm here of training, dieting, doing everything that I'm supposed to be doing to get myself right. And I feel good. So I'm excited to see where I'm at just to see if I'm... What's the turnaround? Do you know, Sal, like when you send it out, like when they're going to get back? I think it's pretty quick. I mean, if I recall, it was like a couple weeks, maybe. Nice. Yeah, and you get it... If you want, they'll text it to you. Or, of course... Oh, that's cool. Or you get an email, of course, and you just go online. Yeah, everything's so nice and exclusive knowledge. Bro, technology is... The internet's decentralizing the fuck out of everything. I love it. I really feel like Taylor's picking on me with all these new sponsors. We just did boner pills. Yeah, boner pills, and now we got testosterone tests. You trying to say something, bro, or what? What's up? He's all getting that... What's up, Bosley? That's coming next. I know. Fucking guy, dude. Yeah, he's hammering you. Put me on a front street. He's like, man, well, if you're fucking... He's gonna get some, like, skin tanner for me. Yeah, next. He's like, I'm gonna get paid for you fixing all your shit, bro. Come on. She said Bosley. Remember that's... Bro, I swear to God, if he does, I'll tell him fuck off or anything. I don't care if I won't try this. What if you get free? He's my last dad. I've tried Bosley. What do you mean, you've tried it? Really? I did it a long time ago. Or not, it's... Yeah, Bosley does the shampoo whole cycle thing, too, right? Oh, okay. I thought you did the hair... No, no, no. Bosley also does, like, they have a whole, you know, lot. Yeah, a kit. It's like $150 a bottle of shampoo, right? Yeah. And did it do anything for you? So, it... What it did do, which pissed me off, was... Because it was right when I... The shampoo runs down your back, so you have hairy back. The trail of tears. Yes, for sure. Fuck you guys. No, this was year... Like, when I first started noticing that I was, like, thinning, I remember using it. And, you know, what it does is it... It, like, grows peach fuzz. It's like, so... And you have to be consistent as fuck with it. You can't be missing. You have to be consistent. And it took a couple weeks. And then after a week, I would kind of rub where my hair was thinning. And it feels like all this peach fuzz. And when you look in the mirror real closely, you get kind of like these micro hairs that grow. Now, what happens is they never grow full-length. At least not for me. I never saw that. And this is... And I've heard a lot of people that have tried. This is what they say the same thing. Is that it just kind of gives you, like, this peach fuzz that grows in that area, but it's not strong enough to make, like, full. It's got a manoxidil. It's got manoxidil, right? Yeah, whatever. Right? So, but when I took it and I was like, oh, this isn't helping very much. Fuck this. And then I stopped. Then when I stopped, it was like my hair started thinning at a faster rate. So it, like, sucked me in for, like, a good six months to a year I was on this. Then at that point I was like... Then it accelerated everything. Yeah, it accelerated it when I wasn't doing it. Well, this is a fucking hustle and a half. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You start using it and it's like, eh, kind of notice everything. Whatever. But then when you stop using it, then your shit starts to accelerate. You know, manoxidil, which I think is what's in it, manoxidil was initially studied for, I believe it was for blood pressure. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was to lower blood pressure. And the people studying it noticed that there would be, like, hair growth. So, just like other medications, the researchers are like, well, it doesn't work very well for this, but wait a minute. But there's a boner. This is a bigger, this is a way bigger market. Oh, yeah. Dude, I'm telling you, dude, you got to, I've been using Solpal Meadow Shampoo for years. I'm cool. I ain't going nowhere. Rocking it. It's good, dude. You know what it says? I don't fuck with it. You know, the Juve light, dude. I'm a believer. Is it growing it back? Bro, I'm a believer. Wait a minute. Is it growing back? No, it's not growing back. It's stopping the accelerate. Oh, it just stopped. Yeah, like it stopped. I don't feel like I've thinned in the last, probably, So what do you do? Lay down so your head is facing you? No, I bring, obviously the listeners can't see what I'm doing, but mine, I have the Juve light at the edge of my bed. And then when I get out of the shower, I'm naked and I bring it right over to me and I sit just like this and I drop my head down. I'm looking down at my feet and so it's hitting my scalp and then I'm getting all the rest of my body, which is great because I have psoriasis on my shins right here. So my psoriasis in my head is like right on it. And I tell you what, and I don't know if I told you guys this, but our boy, Metabalk Mike, you guys know Mike Metzel, I think is his last name. Sorry, Mike. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him and I talk all the time. Oh, God. And he said that he started using the Juve and he actually, before he started, he tested his free test and it was like right around 500 and something and he's our age or a little bit older, I think. And so it's, you know, pretty normal range. And he said he did 12 minutes of, 12 to 15 minutes of infrared therapy. I want to say four times a week, three or four times a week, consistently for about six weeks. And then he went back and retested and his shit went to 970. That's crazy. Yeah. So I said, nothing else changed. He's dying. Yeah, he said everything else. He's been on his same plan, same workout regimen, everything. I believe he follows maps. And so all that stuff has been consistent and the only thing that he changed was introducing the Juve. And I told him, I said, man, you know what, I haven't gone and tested, but you know, I've talked on the show a few times about how I noticed it. One with my psoriasis and you know, my testosterone levels, I was attributing most of that to the training and getting that going again. But you know, maybe the Juve was helping more than I thought it was. So that's kind of a... Yeah. Do another... Do this test, this testosterone test, do another one in, you know, like three, four months or whatever and see if there's any changes. Yeah. What I really want to play with the light and now that we have this kid at home is to see that, you know, if you have to consistently be using it in order to keep the levels there and like, let's say I like fall off and I'm not using it anymore. Probably. I would assume so, right? Anything that has an effect on you, you probably have to maintain to keep that effect. So I'm interested to see if that's going to be... So I'm going to... Just sunlight. I think it's just... It's like, get it going out in the sun. Sunlight will definitely raise testosterone and if you're not in the sun a lot, you can expect... And I think it's an important thing to note for the listeners because for sure, none of us are like the pseudoscience guys at all. I 100% know that I don't get enough sunlight. Like we podcast in a fucking cube with no windows. Bomb shelter. Yeah. And we come in early and when I get home, I'm back inside of a house working on a computer so I get artificial light. I don't get... And I try and make an effort, obviously, to get out in the sun as much as I can or go for my walks and do things like that. But nowhere near the type of sun that I was getting in my teens and childhood. So I think that's probably why I see... I'm seeing so much benefit with the infrared sauna and the juve light. I think it's because I don't get enough sun and if I probably was a sun worshipper, I probably wouldn't see as many of the benefits that I'm seeing with it right now. Justin, do you get in the sun a lot? He looks like it. I mean, I try. As of late, I've been trying real hard to get out in the sun because I do feel the difference being in here all the time and then going home and being inside. I believe people with his complexion need it less and someone like me needs it more. Of course. I would think so. Yeah, exactly. Otherwise, what would like to have low-test astronaut? I think they have a stronger effect from a shorter amount of sun. I think people like you and I who grew up or our heritage goes all the way back to areas that are... When you saw how I would know, inherently, I'm like, okay, I got to get out of the sun. You guys would still be out there just baking and I'm just like, dude, I got to find some shade. We were at Tom's Billy's house and in between podcasts we had a 40-minute break or something like that. So we all go out in his backyard. Beautiful. He's got such a gorgeous house, gorgeous backyard. And we're laying out and so I'm like, cool, I'll just take off my shirt and bake. So I lay out there for about 40 minutes. Justin was out there for five and then goes in the shade and there's like one spot for shade. I'm just going to stand right there. Later that night, we get home and I might have gotten a shade darker, a tiny bit. And I'm literally laying shirt off direct sun. It was hot. Justin's neck and head and everything was red. I got like insta-farmer tan. Yeah, right away. Hey, you just took your kids, I saw your picture with the ATVs. Where was that at all? It was at one of their friends' house. I went to go pick them up and they had like this little track in their backyard. It was so sick. It was like, it went all the way around the neighborhood and he just pulled it out. He's like, oh, I got this for them for Christmas, whatever. And so he had my son, my oldest go in there and then figure out how to drive and everything. And he did really well. He was like, nervous at first because it was just one part where if he would have turned real hard, he would have gone down this like crazy ditch. So he just let them by himself? Yeah. We were like kind of managing from the sides to kind of getting in front of him at least. Do you remember the first time as a kid getting into a go-kart or an ATV or doing anything like that? I remember. Epic. Yeah, I remember. I was nervous. I remember being scared at first but I remember getting over that fear and being like, oh, I love this. Yeah. He definitely had that like reserve. I was like, I'm like stalled it and then like try to get going. Then once he finally get going, like he actually, he started turning and he started like putting more gas to them. And I started getting real nervous because he would take the turns really hard. And it was like, and you'd see like the the tire come up just a little bit. And I was like, oh, shit, like calm down. He didn't crash it or nothing. No, he didn't crash. I mean, he actually, I take that back. He did crash once. He kind of ran into, into the wall one time. Just like couldn't stop in time. But yeah, I was like, fuck, now they're going to want this like forever. You know, like once you get introduced to something that awesome, they're just going to be like, dad, when can we get one? You know, I was like, it's not going to happen. I was telling, go to your friend's house. I was telling Justin that when I was a kid, my first experience on like a ATV or a four wheeler, right? This explains the, the quad the fucking, you know, $15,000 quad in the living room. You're living room centerpiece. Yeah. My, my, my $15,000 coffee table that never gets taken out, right? Yeah. It looks awesome. So this, this is where this all stems from is when I was in fourth grade, I went over to a kid's house. It was, it was a new friend of mine at the time we later on became a good friend of mine. And he took me out. His parents let us take the quad out and he was, he was a farm kid, you know, so they would let fourth graders just get on hop on an ATV and just fucking take off. Like, so, you know, I hopped on and got behind him and then we took off and we rode and then he let me drive and I instantly was like, in love, like, oh my God, I want this. So like every year for every holiday, I was asking for a quad, an ATV, an ATV. And of course my, And you were, and you were poor. Yeah, I know. What do you want for Christmas, Adam? I want a quad. I'm not kidding. It's like a horse, like when kids that would grow. Totally like a horse. So my sister is, so think about this now and talk about these, it's funny you just went that direction because my sisters and my mom all got horses at one point. What? Yeah. Wait a minute, your sister actually got a horse? Yeah, all my siblings, all of them did. A horse is expensive as fuck. My little sister had a pony, my other sister got a horse and then my mom and my dad all got horses. And when we got a property up that actually had acreage, right? And that, I mean, but that was like not until I was in seventh, sixth, seventh grade, but from fourth grade, every holiday all asking, they got horses. I'm still asking. Well, they get a horse. Fuck yeah. I'm gonna ask for ATV. Right. Well, I was asking before that and during, and I'm like, I don't even want, I don't want a horse. I want an ATV. That's all I wanted, right? So, and I never got it. So you better believe the first like purchase that I made, but I was making good money. I was like, I'm going out and it was like that too. So I remember telling my buddy, I convinced him to buy one, which he eventually sold it because he's like, we never fucking drive these things. I got to sell it and I refuse to sell it because I dump a ton of money in it and I'm like, is yours all souped up and shit? Yeah. Yeah. It's the only reason why it's worth 15 grand is because you can buy it brand new for like 70, 75 or eight grand or something like that. But I've dumped another 10 into the thing. It's funny. The guy that, you know, like Ethan's, Ethan's friend, his dad actually went to school with him and I grew up with him. And so he was like, I was into sports, like primarily, he was a little bit at some point, but he was like more of the extreme kind of sports. That crew, you know, like, like growing up like more skateboards and more to cross and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so like over there, I just, I remembered all that and was like, oh yeah, oh shit. Cause to me, like I still fight that tendency of like being real, like safety, caution, you know, protective, like, and like, he's got a lot less of that. You know, like there's gnarly ass, like rope swings and everything he has there. He, he showed me, he's like, hey, blah, blah, blah. Like he built this whole, it was like a swing set that you could climb on top of and then you could jump off of the top with this rope swing and then like swing, like really fucking high in the air and like, he just demoed it from me. And I was like, holy shit dude. He's like, yeah, try it out. It's real fun. I was like, I don't know, man. Like, I'm a little old for that shit. I don't know what you're doing out here. You know? So I got a little nervous. Yeah. I'm the last guy to do that shit. My dad brought home once, like a little 50, the little motorcycles. It was a little dirt bike 50. Ah, that was fun. Dude, I saw my life flash before my eyes on that thing. Yeah. Because I learned how to, that's how I learned how to drive like stick shift. I learned how to change gears through. You mean use a clutch. Yeah. How to use a clutch through a motorcycle. So I get on that thing and he's teaching me how to, you know, how to use the clutch and shift and all that stuff. And once I got the hang of it, man, that thing would hit like 40 miles an hour. And I remember I'd ride around my neighborhood and I got a little cocky and I went up like the curb a little bit and you ever get the wobbles where you hit the curb and you start, and I was heading towards the car and I don't know how I missed the car but I never got on that bike again because I saw my life flash before my eyes. I didn't have a helmet on. Nobody ever wore a helmet in those days. I know. Did you guys ever wear a helmet when you were riding the show? No way, man. I still don't wear a helmet. I was riding like my dad's Honda 90. It was like this old piece of shit and yeah, it totally got out from under me. It hit a bunch of leaves and sticks like on this turn and, yeah, road rash all upside my body. It sucked. I still wanted to do that. We got it all taken. You know, we go down south all the time. Pismo is like one of my favorite places to go and ride. We should make a mind-blowing trip. That would be hilarious because I would love to make a mind-blowing trip. It's been since I was a little kid since I was a kid. Well, and the fact that your boys now are into that, dude, it's so funky. You can ride all those things on the beach, man. You go down there. Oh, this little dune buggy thing. Like, oh, it's super fun, man. It looks so rad. Yeah. I would love to do it. They're pretty safe. I mean, I know there's dangerous too, but they're pretty fucking safe with the cages and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Especially out there on the beach and like that. I mean, there's only one thing you got to worry about, right? So if you're coming towards the water, you got to be careful. You don't want to end up in the ocean? No, no, no. Or excuse me. It's the other way. It's leaving the water. I'm like backwards. It's been since I've been there. Because of the wind coming in, so it makes these drop-offs. So as long as you're heading towards the water, everything is up, up, up. Otherwise you're going fucking bad. When you're going the other way, and I've had buddies that have literally broke limbs because they're mashed in the other direction and it looks sand, so you just see it looks level and then you'll come off and you'll have a 50-foot drop in the sand and just go out. Wow. So as long as you're heading towards the water, you'll always be shooting up. So you could hit these, you could bomb on a jump, launch 20, 30 feet in the air, but you'll land up and you'll keep going up and you'll keep going up. Yeah, up. But when you're going the other way, the way the wind blows and makes the lips on the sand. So I got lost at Pismo in the sand dunes once. Oh, really? Yeah, I went out there. This was a long way. Walking or riding? No, riding. I was, God, this was maybe four years into my marriage. Me and my wife at the time got on those little, the quads or whatever. And we went out there and we were having a great old time for an hour, riding deeper and deeper into the beach. And it looks like everything looks the same all around you. Couldn't see anything around me except for dunes. And then I'm like, which direction do we go? How do we get back? And we couldn't find our way back. And the way I found my way back was what you're talking about was you could, eventually I started to figure out that the dunes looked a particular way and I figured, well, the ocean must be this way. So we just kept going and I found the ocean and then I rode the coast all the way back. But I get lost all the time. That's just one more example. Well, there is not a, anybody can get lost out there. Exactly. So you throw me in there. Yeah, you throw someone in there. I almost died. I almost starved to death. It's GPS on you. Yeah, I would have been in the middle of the sand. Little sal tracker. Surrounded by like vacationers. You know, it's like two miles away. None of them dead out of the beach, you know what I'm saying? Fuck. Oh man. Anyway, so you know I can't wait to, we have Lane coming in next week. You know what I can't wait to ask him? What's that? Why he was talking shit about Benny there? What was he doing on Joe Rogan? I missed, he's trying to get on Joe Rogan, isn't he? Yeah. He's trolling hard. God man. I'm going to call him out. He's been on Joe Rogan's like threads forever. Just like always be like, you got to bring me on. You got to like super aggressively trying to get on. And you know what? The crazy part is he'll never bring him on because of that. Right. It's not a good tactic. Or maybe he will to fuck with him. Yeah, I think that he won't. I don't think he'll bring him on just for the simple fact that he's wanting to be on. So it's like, is when someone's asking you that all the time, it's like, come on, dude. Yeah. I would, I would, I would love to have him in Greenfield on the podcast together. That would be a fun one. And then just, just just, I don't know. Stoke it. Yeah. Maybe if we're involved in it because I feel like they're so fucking different. We get weird. Yeah, it would get weird. And Ben would, Ben would just not bother with him. Lane would probably try and poke at him. And Ben would just kind of aloof. Yeah. And I don't think Ben would even care. You know what I'm saying? I just think it would be hilarious. What I love about Ben is, and this is why Ben is a really good friend of ours, right? And Lane's a good friend of ours too, but I would say Ben's a better friend of ours. And I think, you know, it reminds me of when you're kids and you're, like when you're young and you have all your friends around you. And then they're like, who's your best friend? And you've got like four of your friends around you. And you have to pick one. Yeah. But he's got an, he's got a boat. You know, his dad has a boat. He's a better friend. Right, right. No, I just, I think, well, I think we spend way more time with Ben, right? We've hung out with Ben a lot, like all of us have. And I think we've got to know him really, really well. And Ben's really, really comfortable with who he is. Like nobody's going to rattle his cage. No one's going to come in and like try and poke at him. Like he's not that guy. Like he fully embraces who he is, what he's doing. Especially in the fitness space, both ends of the spectrum, everything from the fucking woo woo all the way to the hardcore bodybuilders. And Ben really is, if there's anybody who's going to be doing all this pseudo science shit, he's the guy I want to do it. Yeah. He is the guy. I mean, somebody that smart who like lives their, their life to do a T, like of like protocol. Yeah. Who is like testing things out. Like he is the guy I want to go to say, dude, tell me, press the boundaries a bit. This isn't evidence necessarily, but a little bit. It is. Isn't Ben like, like our age? He is right? Yeah. Or maybe it's a couple of years younger. Is he just like two? I think he looks. He looks really fucking good when you look at him. Like his skin looks really good. He looks really he's always lean. You know what I mean? So his hair is nice. It's not like him. He smells good. I'm crushing on him. Yeah. Apparently his penis grew. Yeah. No, I don't know what they I don't think they would. I don't think it would. I don't know if it would be a good interview or not. Like I don't know. I haven't heard the I've heard Lane interview because I've listened to his podcast for a long time and he does like all the PhD guys and they just they do the. That's why because they're so they're so different echo chambers. I think it would be a blast. So one more thing I wanted to bring up that was it's not shocking necessarily, but devastating for for some people to hear. There was a huge study done by Britain's leading leukemia leukemia experts and they've concluded so huge analysis that there's a deadly chain of events that is set in motion that could be causing the most common childhood cancer, which is leukemia. And that is a hyper clean environment. So you know how they've been saying for a long time that a hyper clean environment is could be causing or at least a major factor in the reason why kids develop autoimmune issues like asthma and stuff like that. And we've known this for a while. These connections have been made for a while. Well, they're finding now that and this is 30 years of research that they've that they've studied. So this is a lot of research. And what they think that happens is that children in these hyper clean environments their immune systems become hyper vigilant because they don't really have anything to so everything becomes an enemy. So they just they just develop a shit ton of these white blood cells and it turns into leukemia and when I read that man imagine if you're a parent and you're hearing that and you had a kid who you know what I mean? Yeah. And especially like because if you're like if you're creating this sterile environment like obviously you care you know you're trying to make sure that your kid is like safe from all these like foreign like substances and bacteria and whatever. And that's so that you're detriment at that point. It's so crazy and it just reminds we've had stuff like this in the past where like a long time ago when the factory factor was but there was these there were these watches that had glowing hands on them. So there are watches that people would buy and you know that you could see the hands really well because they would kind of glow. And the way that they would glow is they would paint I think Radium on them which is radioactive and they didn't know that it was bad to handle this material and so there were a lot of women that took this job and what they would do is they'd use these little tiny paint meaning they many times lick the brush to create a fine point. Shut the fuck up. Where did you hear this? This is an old story. This happened in the 19, I want to say in the 1920s maybe or 30s. And all these women were- It's like that mercury. Yeah. All these women were getting cancer. Yeah. And then they realized, oh, it's shit. It's because you're licking the paintbrushes and you're getting this radioactive material. And it just reminds me of like how many times we've had these situations and then realized it was, we were doing it to ourselves. You know, and I think that this, you know, we're going to, God, I think honestly in the next 10, 20 years- How can we not think we're doing it to ourselves when a lot of this stuff didn't exist a fucking hundred years ago? Yeah. That's the obvious thing, right? To me, it's like that's, so I think when people play this like, oh, I hate- Yeah, the radium girls, that's what they call them. I hate hearing this like, oh, my genetics are all this all the time. It's like, dude, it's so crazy. Half the shit that we're all talking about that we're suffering from, like we weren't suffering from this a hundred years ago. Yeah. Yeah. But we just want to control our environment so bad and it's just like we create new problems as a result. Well, this is it. Like, why are we in these hyper super sterile clean environments? Where did you read this, dude? What a random fucking fact. Not right there. Yeah, I didn't hear about that. I must have read it a long time ago. Yeah. Like in 1930 something. Hold on. I want to see if that's like a fun fact. Hold on. This is Snapple Cow. I want to see if I was right with the years. What years was that? What did that happen? They call them the radium girls. I mean, it's black and white. 1927. Damn it! It's the radium girls. I feel like there's a song. It sounds like they'd be hot, right? You want to go meet the radium girls? For sure one of the things that people that meet us are most impressed with aside from that they're like, oh my God, you're exactly the same as you are on the fucking show. Besides that is holy shit, Sal really doesn't have a laptop in front of him when he says all this weird random shit. Oh, I know. People always think that. Embedded in your brain. People always think that. No, I'm not looking at shit. You know, we have these hyper clean environments because we've been told we discovered germ theory. We discovered that bacteria and viruses exist and that's what makes us sick. And so immediately what we did is we fucking tried to eradicate them, eradicate them from everything. That's the enemy. Let's get rid of them. Yes, that knee jerk reaction. And now we're seeing that that has caused its own problems. And so it's just, God, how often are we going to, how many times are we going to learn this lesson? That's crazy. I know. And it's like, that's why I'm like, go outside, go play, get dirty. You know, it's, it's fine. I mean, we'll watch. Justin intentionally doesn't shower his kids. Drink tap water, you know, like just like why, why are you like being such a purist about all this shit? It's not really like that good, like prove to me that that's a better method than you know. No, I'm with you. And it's, you know, we have to learn this. We keep having to learn this lesson where we discover something and we say, oh, gosh, and we go, we overreact and don't realize that, that there's a balance that has to be found. God, you know, cholesterol is a good example of that. Like we, we discovered a while ago that when arteries are clogged, it's cholesterol that's clogging the arteries. So we overreact and we're like, oh, fuck, hammer the fuck out of your cholesterol, lower it like crazy because that's what's going to cause problems. And now we're starting to realize that that's actually causing more problems itself. You know, do you have to ask yourself though, was it necessary for us to do that to figure that out though? Yeah. Just like, just like back in the day, like I mentioned the nick, like where they're trying to figure out like these procedures, like, and like they, man, so many people died because it's, it's part of the process of like figuring out, well, this happened so then this, and oh my God, here's Kyle. That's why, that's why when we do like these, like when we talk about these like extreme, extreme things, like it's almost like as humans, like we have to do that, we have to go through that stuff in order for us to piece it all together. You know what it is? Yeah. Humanity and society is like a, it's like a child. Our first question is from Danielle 2000. Do you think parents should punish any and all underage drinking or allow their minor children to drink under their own roof? Oh, interesting question. Yeah. You know, I have a, so I have this kid that I went to high school with. I'll never forget Kenny, good buddy of mine. And his parents used to allow him to drink and it used to drive me crazy because I absolutely could not, right? I was going to hell if I drank. So it was not, not really. That's an exaggeration. What about wine, dude? Yeah, that's an exaggeration. Jesus made water and wine. But we absolutely were not allowed to underage drink. But my good friend Kenny, his parents would allow us and the rule was if we were out there, they had, we had to drink at the house. We all had to give them the keys and they would allow us to do it. Now the thing that drove me crazy was as a high school kid who was introduced to alcohol, it became the thing that we did every, every Friday or Saturday was like who do we have the shoulder tap or where are we drinking at and whose parents are out of town so we could go to their house. And we always had Kenny because Kenny didn't have to have his parents out of town because we could technically go drink there. But Kenny never wanted to drink. He was a 4.2 GPA student, fucking hell of a smart. He didn't care. It wasn't a big deal. Yeah. It wasn't a big deal because his parents had always allowed him to do that. So it was an interesting example of, you know, and I'm not to say that that works for every, every parent because I'm sure there's, You hear about that like in Europe, there's that sort of mentality where it's always around, right? Like with dinner, there's wine and, you know, they'll have like a lot of other kids that have SIP and it's almost like the stigma of it and the taboo sort of vibe around it is just completely different. I think that, I mean, it is, there's something to that for sure. Obviously, you know, I have a little bit of reserve and a problem though with like having other people's kids over and like, yeah, yeah, my house is the one where everybody's like drinking. Like I don't like that at all. I don't think I would condone that either. I think that I would allow my, my kids that I don't have, right? I would, I would allow them. Yeah. Yeah. You're hypothetical. If I pretend kids. Yeah. Adam number two. Yeah. I would let my pretend kids experiment with that with me and under my roof or with me in wherever we're at. You know, if we're on some vacation or trip somewhere, right? And I would allow, I would allow that, but I don't know. I don't think I would like Kenny's parents. Although I, what was crazy was because they, they taught him responsibility, you know, and I remember, I remember being the young kid who was always looking to get in trouble on a Friday, Saturday night and asking Kenny like, hey dude, let's go to your parent. We have nowhere to party or drink. And he's like, no, no, we have, I've got a test on Monday. I've got to study, you know, and I remember being like, motherfucker, you're not that cool. Kenny's mentality. A large chunk of the reason why teenagers do shit is because they're rebelling. It's that whole taboo, 100%. If it's not taboo, it's not really that big of a deal anymore. And that's, look, statistically speaking, kids will rebel against what their parents are most hard on. You know, the most difficult thing that they, that the parents are on with them is what they tend to rebel against. And look, the facts are this. In America, American teens binge drink at much higher rates than they do in Europe. Actually binge drinking is worse in America than anywhere else. Now in a lot of European countries, like in Italy, alcohol is, it's a family affair. And kids drink, you know, with the parents and people have wine. And they, and the other thing too is I remember the first time I drank alcohol. So in my, in my house, nobody drank alcohol. So we were not like the typical Italian family. We didn't have beer or wine ever. And it was very taboo in my, in my house. Now the first time I drank alcohol or really drank alcohol, I was, I think 19 years old. And I didn't understand the consequences of drinking. I knew you got drunk. I knew you could get sick, but I wasn't experienced. And so what I did was I was with my, at the time, one of my mentors bought us some alcohol and I drank it and I started feeling good. So what, I didn't know that what you drink now takes a little bit to hit you. So I kept going and I got fucking sick. I got super, super sick. And I think that, and like ask me now, how often I get sick when I drink? Never. I never get sick when I drink now because I know my limits. I know my body. I understand the consequences. And I feel like I would have, I would have known that had I drank with my parents and where someone was there guiding me, explaining to me, and it wasn't so, so taboo. So for me, for sure, with my kids, they're the first time they drink or do whatever or anything else that's legal like cannabis. I'm going to, I already, I'm going to do it with them and I'm going to talk to them about the consequences and what can happen. So the question is, as a parent, do you, is it, you wait for that question to be asked and does it matter what age when they come to you? Like, does it matter if it's your 11-year-old asking you or does it matter if it's your 15-year-old who's asking you? Like, where do you, where does that line for you guys? Cause what if you're- Oh, what's the age? Yeah. I think for me, it's always been just putting like downplaying a lot of like being really responsible with me and my wife. Like when we are drinking, like they know that it's, it's an alcoholic beverage and like it's interesting because you get that immediate feedback of like, oh, I was wrong, it's in Canada. No, you know, so, you know, it's funny about this. So I've seen several studies that say that America has the worst binge drinking. So I'd be interested to see with this article that Doug pulled up that says that that Europe has worse teen drinking problems and how they're quantifying that, like what that means. I know the drinking culture in Europe is a little bit different in the sense that it's more, it's more of a social thing, more of a family thing in some countries. Like I said, like in Italy, for example. But I mean, here's the way I'd like to treat everybody. I definitely think it all should fall, whatever we agree, like as a society is an adulthood for somebody, I think that they all should fall under that. Yeah, well I think- I think parents should be able to handle that, you know, have autonomy with that. How would they fucking want to? You know, like this is their family. Like it's literally how they- The scary part is that- You want to set them up for that. The scary part is that there's a large portion of kids running around that aren't being parented. Yeah, well that's- So their parents got to be something in place, right? Because otherwise those kids are going to run amuck. Yeah, and I just think that I think it's something for the family to handle. I think if you want to talk about drinking age in terms of legality, I think it's absolutely insane that we trust- Dude, why is Denmark off the charts? It's part of their culture. But you know, this is percentage of 16-year-olds who report being drunk, which isn't the same thing as binge drinking, getting sick, and going to the hospital. It could be, you know, ask a bunch of 16-year-olds, hey, have you ever been drunk, and be like, oh yeah, I felt- Well, I think that's a good measure. I think asking a 15, because I didn't binge drink when I was a kid, and I was- You didn't get sick when you first started drinking? Will make you drink till you got sick? Well, yeah, sure we did that. But I mean, I don't- I mean, being drunk versus what- You're saying that if you throw up, you're considered a binge drinker? You know what? There's a way that they define binge drinking. Because I think being drunk is pretty much what every kid was chasing. It wasn't like, let's- So the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism defines binge drinking as a pattern of alcohol consumption that brings the blood alcohol concentration level to 0.08 or more. So for females, typically it's by consuming four or more drinks within two hours. And for males, it's five or more drinks within two hours. So if you're a guy- I feel like a kid that's being asked this. If you're a 15, 16-year-old kid and you've been asked if you've been drunk, you would connect the same thing. Maybe. Because as a 15, 16-year-old kid that when I- Because that's about the age when I first experienced drinking and trying to get drunk, it was a race to get drunk. And so if you were to ask me this same question here, I would say, yes, at 15, 16-years-old I've been drunk before. And if you asked me, do I think I binge drink? I would probably think, no, I don't think I'm a binge. Because I think as a kid, I would probably think that binge drinking is this thing that you do every single week, every single day. Well, look at it this way. Let's talk about sex. STD rates tend to be higher where kids are in environments where sex is super, super taboo. So they don't learn about condoms. They don't learn about preparation. And it tends to be these random acts of whatever where they have sex and you get STD rates on the rise and teen pregnancy and stuff. I think all subjects are like that. Not that you should sit down and have your kids do whatever. I think just being honest. Just be fucking honest. You don't have to demonize everything. My kids asked me, I had this conversation with my son about all drugs. And he went down the gamut of drugs. And at the end of it, I told him the same thing with all of them. I said, look, I did go into the science on each one and how people do them. And people tend to do heroin with needles and here's the problems with that. And people tend to do cocaine this way. Because he had all these questions. But at the end of it, I'm like, look, people do these drugs because for whatever reason it makes them feel good. Or many times it makes them feel like they forget about the problems because they're escaping or whatever. And there's abuse potential with all drugs. And some drugs have higher abuse potential than others. And there's also the risk of the law that's higher with some drugs than there is with others. Like if you're old enough to drink alcohol and you drink alcohol, you have a very low risk of going to jail because of it. But if you do a drug like cocaine, the risk is much higher because it's very illegal. So I'm just being super honest with my kids and I feel like that's better than doing the whole fear thing or taboo thing. Like sex. Like if we talk about sex, the way I talked about, and again, I talked about this with my son because he's older, as I say, look, you know, I know that you go to Catholic school and they talk about waiting till you're married. And I understand that, but you also know that I live in this house with Jessica and we're not married. And I said, I think the reason why that rule was made is so that people waited till they were serious and they really had a connection with someone and it meant more than just the physical act of sex. I said, when you just do the physical act of sex, very few people can do that without having, you know, detrimental effects, you know, if they continue to do that for long periods of time. So it's really about respecting yourself and respecting the other person. And I'm just being totally honest. Sex feels good. This is why people do it. But there's much more to sex than just the feeling of feeling good. There's the connection that you can get from it. And I'm just being totally honest so that they can make a more educated decision because otherwise you get this taboo where you think it's so bad, then you get exposed to it, you rebel, you try it, you think your parents are liars and they don't know what they're talking about. And then you start to go in the opposite direction where you, you know, you kind of go crazy. And I think that's what happens with alcohol. Like if you drink, like if my son says, hey, can I try some of that beer? Yeah, you can taste it. And then he's like, oh, it's gross. Yeah, it takes a while to get used to the flavor or whatever. Why do you drink it? I like the taste. And when you get a little bit of alcohol on you, you start to feel kind of relaxed. But I don't drink it often because of this, that and the other. There's no, like what's wrong with being totally honest? Are you afraid of when we tell our kids? Well, it's what everyone's afraid of is the reflection, bro. Yeah. Because when you're somebody who says something like that, you say that because you manage all those things. But let's be honest, half of America or more doesn't. And they need three to four glasses of wine every night. And their kid sees that and they know inside they feel guilty. And then your kid asks you about it. What are you gonna say to him? Yeah, mommy or daddy has hates his work or hates his wife or hates his husband. And so to take the edge off, I drink four glasses after dinner all the time. It's interesting you say that because I had a conversation with one of my good friends who he saw that sort of reflection. He saw that feedback that he was getting like, oh, dad, you're having another margarita or whatever. And then he just was like, oh, wow, this is scary. And so all of a sudden now the whole household, there's no alcohol and there's this dry. He had this panic moment and I thought about that at like resonating with me and I was like, because my kids see me drinking every now and then and me and Courtney and it's like, is this something that they should be seeing? Freak willingness and that. But at the same time, it's casual. I was like, no, this is who I am. I'm not trying to like, yeah, I'm not abusing it. I'm an adult. I'm doing this responsibly. Is this something I'll do occasionally? Well, the question becomes when they start asking. And that's where I feel like. The dialogue needs to happen with them though. You can't like, you know, shy away from it. Right. Yeah, like my daughter. And I think where most people struggle is, you know, and even you saying that right now, what's great about someone like you though, I think you're open minded to this possibility that maybe you don't know or don't realize that they are connecting that dad has a drink X amount of times and they're paying attention. And one day they do decide to ask and you will have to answer. You're like, you'll have to answer, which you probably will, but it'll also cause you to kind of probably reflect a little bit and go like. Dude, I'll be completely honest. I had to check myself because I was like, oh, wow, we've been ramping it up because we've been stressed and our household has been like chaotic and we were drawn to wanting to drink, you know. And they noticed it. And it's awkward, right? Because you're like, oh, shit. You know, they're paying attention. But then you just like, you work through that. And you're like, okay. Well, like I internally calm down myself and then I, you know, sparingly I'll reintroduce it. But like, yeah, it's fine. That's feedback to me is how I look right. I think another good point about this is say what you want. It's how you act that really makes the big impact. And if you're at home and you're having a little bit of wine with dinner and it's normal and everybody's whatever, it's fine. That sends a very different message than dad is angry until he has his beer. Yeah, I don't know if you can even say that, though. I mean, I look at wine, cannabis, scotch drinking, all the same to me. And I told you just recently when we were talking and I told you that I'm going to do like the 30-day fast from cannabis. And you're like, oh, why? Well, you know, I know that there's a good possibility that Katrina in the next year or two, her and I could be pregnant. And I most certainly will not have cannabis in the house. And not because I think it's evil and it's wrong and I feel guilty for all that. It's just I don't want my child to see that dad has this. Even because at that age, I don't think they can process everything that I can and understand that. And when the time comes, it doesn't mean that I would run away from that. It doesn't mean that I would like hide it and deny it. It just means that I don't want them exposed to it all the time because I don't want their little brains to formulate that this is a normal thing in an okay pattern because they are not developed enough to say, hey, you know what, like, dad is just relaxing and that's how he relaxes. Well, what if I want to relax and I'm a kid and they don't understand that the same? I don't even know if they consciously even make that. I'll give you another example. They don't. It's probably subconsciously happening. I'll give you an example. But it's being cemented in there, bro. Yeah, but it's how it's done. Like, here's an example. Is it okay to be naked around your kids? Depends on why you're naked and how you're naked. Like, getting out of the shower and whatever and just being naked or whatever. Not a big fucking deal. But, you know, being funny about it, whatever, very inappropriate. Like, you know, if, like I said, if it's a part of whatever and there's no dysfunction in the house, like, if people are drinking and acting crazy or if dad's pissed off until he has his drink or mom is getting hammered at night because she's whatever, that is very different than when you're having a beer, having a wine and it's like a normal, not a big deal. Like, there's a very big difference in what happens. Yeah, but you just said it again right there. That's where I interrupted you last time. It's a normal thing. What does that mean? Like, it's very normal that we have to take, I have to take the edge off with a substance every night? No, I don't think every night. I think every night might be too much. But it depends on the family and the, look, I have family members' cousins who, you know, when I'd go visit them in Italy, wine was at dinner. Most of the time. Most of the time dad would have a glass of wine. I don't, there wasn't any dysfunction there that I could see. It didn't seem that way. It wasn't like he was getting smashed. It was literally a single glass of wine with dinner. Now cannabis might be a little bit different because it's smoke and you do get high off of one hit. I don't know if it's necessarily the same. Maybe I'm brainwashed because cannabis has been... Sure you are. You know, has been... Sure you are. When you look at which one... Stigmatized. When you look at what the potential that the pathway of drinking alcohol on a regular basis can lead to as far as dangers in far outweighs cannabis. It does, yep. So I definitely can't... I disagree with the normalization of it as just saying that it's no big deal. When in reality, the reason why, and I'm not judging by no means right now, this is me just having an open dialogue with you guys. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Because it's something that I've thought about how I would handle that because I am 100% pro cannabis and it's something that is a part of my life. But then I'm also aware enough to know that as a young child, and I feel like I feel passionate about this because I see what happened to my brother. Like I see my little brother right now and the pathway that he's going down right now and it breaks my heart. And it breaks my heart because I know that he has an older brother who was involved in the cannabis business and when he experienced it was years before I did. I didn't until my late 20s when I was responsible as fuck and I understood it to a much deeper level than he does and I've now watched it consume his life. So I don't know, man, I have a really hard time with just justifying and saying it's normal to have a drink every now and then and to say... Well, think about it this way. Like let's say dad has pain or mom has to take a medication for something and so she takes her prescription drug every single day in front of the kids versus... Jess is bad. Jess is bad. ...versus hitting a joint. Well, which... Is it bad or is it... I don't know. It's a very good question. I think... I don't know how you can... I think it's impossible to do this blanket. Like I know what dysfunction is when I see it. Right. I think it's just becoming aware. Like again, like... I think it's becoming aware and like paying attention to the feedback you're getting because you're still who you are. You know, like going into being a parent. It's not like all of a sudden you become this... this fucking like model example. Yeah, but I would debate that right there is that part of who you are is I'm less aware. And now becoming a parent, I'm becoming hyper aware because now I have a tiny mini reflection of myself. Sure. And what I thought was normal before... But do you hate that about yourself? Or do you not like... Is that something you enjoy and you don't feel like that's a detriment to your character? I don't know. That's something you have to ask. Right. Each person has to ask himself individually is that, is this enhancing who I am or is it... I think that's really the question. Yeah. So it's like, that's how I deal with it from going forward is like, do I not like that about myself? I don't want to present that in front of my kids. So I won't. Yeah. I would have to say that if you're... unless you have medicinal reasons for it, I would say generally daily use of cannabis and alcohol. Or anything. But yeah, it's probably not good. It's a little bit of dependency. Yeah. I mean, I'm like a three day a week or four day a week. If I don't have the kids, definitely. If I do have the kids sometimes and it's after they go to bed and it's outside or something like that. But yeah, it's a good question. It really is. I think it does require a lot of self-reflection. But in terms of discussing and talking, the reality is they're going to be exposed to things. The reality is that... 100% if my kid comes and he's asked dad, I'm really curious about drinking. Like, son, Friday night, you and I, we're going to sit down and we're going to drink and we're going to talk all about it. I think that'd be fun. Yeah. I 100% would be that way. Like if he came... Well, I just know it'll come in and I had a very similar experience growing up. It was so taboo. Like even in... There's like, my mom made a point of like putting like little like post it like magnets and things that were just like demonizing all alcohol consumption and like having like drunkardness is prohibited in this household. No shit. And I was the only one that was like, you know, I tried it and I actually liked it. You know, like, oh my, I'm a fucking demon now. No, but I was like, no, I'm a good kid. It's not like what you guys had made it out to be. And you and I connect on that level because we're very similar with that, which also makes me though reflect even more on myself because I know because I was raised a certain way on one extreme that I'm going to probably lean towards the other extreme almost as a fuck you. Right. So you want to check yourself on the rebellion. Right. I struggle with that too. Right. Right. You're going to question, I mean, you end up questioning everything you do. Exactly. Am I watching TV too much in front of the camera? Yes. Did I yell, you know, at the remote control? And I have yelled and you know, I've raised, you know, it just happens. Which is good. Which is good, I think. Totally. Because you guys are again, that's why I was saying, you know, with Justin like, I know that no matter what when that time comes, I know that he's the type of person that will really dive deep into that instead of just saying, because I told you so. Yeah. Or daddy does, you don't get to, you know what I'm saying? Like instead of, I know none of you or neither one of you or father or all three of you, even for that matter with Doug, are fathers like that. So I think it's cool. But it's definitely something that I've thought long and hard about as far as, you know, how would I, how would I monitor? I would change what I do, which I don't think is changing me. I think it's just being a responsible adult having a child who doesn't have the thought process like you have. I think I would change the way I smoke cannabis now. I would. Right now in the freedom of my home and I have adults and stuff like that in there all the time. I'm fucking burned right in the middle of the living room. And I have an ashtray out. I'll leave a half joint in there because it's my fucking house. I'll do what I want to do. But if I did have a kid inside there. That's different. I have a lock box. I have a lock box. There's timing with that, you know, that conversation. I feel like that opportunity, that's one of those you want to. Yeah, they're too young. That's something that needs to happen a bit later, but it will happen. Hey buddy, do you know what we... It's not time for that. Dude, Luke's story, right? Fucking Luke was snort cocaine at eight. Dude, that's what floored me. I mean, I was just like, oh my God, I can't even imagine. It's like unfathomable to me. It's terrible. I keep everything in a lock box because it's a psychoactive substance. And I do have sometimes edibles. And I hate this about edibles. They're all fucking fruit-flavored chocolate, fucking candies. What a dangerous thing to keep an eye on. They won't kill your kid, but for sure, if one of my kids ate that on accident, I would... That's going to be an experience. It would destroy my heart. Oh, terrible. Next up is Via Nataniel. How do you create a perfect program? Yeah, how to create the perfect... We don't know. Program, I know. Does that exist? No, it doesn't exist. Actually, I like that you picked this because I think the person would probably assume that we'd sit here and probably break down what's done. Well, think about this. Naps perfection. When I thought about this, I thought, okay, here's what we do when we create a program is when we create a program... You get really high. Yeah. Right after that last question, too. Yeah, yeah. I think we all think about... Dad, how did you write maps? I forgot. You talk about that when you're 18. We all think about the person that we're trying to create the program for. Because as trainers, when I used to create programs for people, there was a whole process of... We created programs for the majority instead of creating programs that played into people's insecurities. That is the major difference of where... And by no means is our program any more perfect than another person's program. It's that through the years of experience between the three of us, the thousands of people that we've trained, we know what a majority of people, what they struggle with and what they need to work with or what they need to help on, what they're not focusing on, what they should be focusing on. And so with that information, we have what we call expert programming. And the other side, the other types of programs are out there, we're designed based off of your insecurities because you want to look like I look or you're trying to do this. Or you think it's an exercise you're missing, so I throw in all this creative shit in there that you've never seen before. That's how most programs are done. Well, we've just seen physically what works best out of... And then just to mention all the thousands of people I've trained personally, Adam's trained personally, Sal's trained personally, you just see a pattern that emerges and you start to kind of pay attention to certain exercises, the cadence of the workout, what they're coming in with, that they pre-existing have already as far as postural concerns and the way that their movement, mechanics, what that looks like, their stress levels, what state they're in emotionally. There's just so many variables that if you can kind of deduce that whole process down to a few things to focus on and then sort of build around that and build outside of it. Let's talk some nuts and bolts here, like maps, right? And I remember when Sal first sent this over, it's how, why we're all together is because I saw it right away and was like, this is brilliant and this is the fucking message that should be given to people right now because this is a majority. For sure there's somebody who buys maps and then buys some other program that's nothing like maps and they may possibly get better results for them at that time in their life with running another program. But what we knew was that there was a huge misconception with this intensity-driven culture that we have right now, that if you want to look a certain way or get the results, it's the harder you work at it. And that's all that matters. It couldn't be further from the truth, hence why so much energy is put into, listen, you could train two or three days a week and build an incredible physique. In fact, you are better off learning to do that first before you build on top of that and have this five-day, six-day, seven-day-a-week type of regimen that's crazy high intense. That should take you years to progress up to that and along the way you should be seeing great results. Now, that's speaking to 90% of the population. I'm not talking to some fucking hyper-athlete or super bodybuilder that's been lifting since he was fucking 12. I'm talking to the masses, a majority, which is the people that we trained. And so when we program, there's things in there that we did that like, okay, taking that into consideration, 90% of the people that follow a protocol that's only three days a week, but a full-body type of routine with the major lifts involved is going to blow away the programs that are out there. That's right, and here's the thing. When we create programs, we're creating them for an avatar. When we create a MAPS performance, we're thinking, okay, MAPS performance is for the person who's interested in functional athletic movement and performance. Maybe somebody who's attracted to CrossFit because of that. How would we design a workout for that type of person? And also have it lead into a season so you could use it as a workout protocol. All that stuff we kind of factored in. So here's what happens when I used to create programs for individuals. I didn't just sit down and say, okay, Mrs. Johnson or Mr. Smith, what are your goals? Want to build muscle burn body fat? Okay, let me write your program. That's not how you write a program. Yes, your goals are important, but I got to know your exercise history. I got to start to decide. I got to look at your overall stress load because exercise is a stress on the body. It's all the other stress you have in your life. And if you have a lot of stress in your life, you don't have that much room for a whole lot of other stress. In fact, if I put too much on your body in combination with all the other stress that you have in your life, your body's not only not going to respond, it might go backwards. I'm going to look at your movement patterns. I'm going to look at your personality. Like how dedicated and motivated are you? How realistic is it that you're going to come to the gym X amount of days a week? So that's how you create the perfect program for all of that stuff in. And then you spit out a routine. And then even then, I would train someone with a routine and the program would change month to month based on how their body was responding. Now with maps, of course, we don't have the luxury of talking to every single person of the 10,000 or however many thousands of people that have bought our program. We don't have that luxury. What we do have is an avatar, a general avatar based on our collective 60 years of experience with people. And then we design programs for specific goals. You know, maps aesthetic is for like your body builder types and maps. Anabolic is more for your average person who just wants to build muscle and so on and so forth. And then we design the routine. So you really have to base it on yourself. And there are general truths. Here's some general truths for you. Big gross motor movements seem tend to be more effective than single joint isolation type movements. Now that doesn't mean isolation movements are of any value. They're not irrelevant. That means, it just means, literally what I said, generally speaking, place more emphasis on gross motor movements. An example that we talk with Ben Polkowski a lot who's big time on the isolation thing. But here's the difference between someone like Ben who's been building himself for so many years and has put in the foundation and the hard work already, that he has the luxury to isolate and focus on certain muscles to develop them because he's specialized himself that a majority of people are nowhere near his level. Maybe we'll never get to that level. Yeah, and we'll probably never get to that level and the majority of people are neglecting some of the most important movements like squatting, like deadlifting, like the overhead press, like those three especially. I mean, most people are bench pressing. That tends to be pretty stable. But the deadlift, the squat and the overhead press are the three next biggest movements you could possibly do and a good portion of people are completely ignoring them. Even the ones that aren't ignoring them, myself included, for many years kind of sporadically put them in there. When they should have been the nuts and bolts in the core of all of my programs. And we also know that training to failure all the time for most people is not only is it too much, so not only are you wasting your time and energy, but it's actually detrimental. Most people will do best stopping a couple reps short of failure. Most people will do best training their entire body between two to four days a week rather than training body parts once a week. Most people will do best training with exercises that are more specific to their goals especially if they have athletic or functional type goals. Like if you want to be a better swimmer well there's more carryover for some exercises than there are to others. And so these are all important things to know. Once you understand your recovery ability once you understand the amount of time you can spend in the gym, maybe past injuries and movement and all that stuff like right now I'm coaching someone who has got really really bad ankle mobility so he sent me a video of his squat and he can barely get down to parallel and his feet, you know, pronate and his knees start to collapse and he's been working out for a long time. This person's not going to be squatting for a little while. I'm going to be having him do split stance exercises so we can get a full range of motion and we're going to work on ankle mobility so these are all things you need to take into account when you're designing your routine but the general truths are gross motor movements remember whatever you're asking for is what you're going to get so the exercise and the intensity is pretty specific to the results you're going to get. Don't go to failure most of the time. Train the whole body two to four days a week and then if you want to get more specific you get one of our programs or you start to design your own. I mean we really designed them with the intent of not being programs to get to a certain point like oh follow maps and a blog if you want to build a bunch of strength sure it's marketed that way sure it's tagged that way but really they're all like tools education tools. They're really good templates. Yeah they're really good templates for you to learn from that's what and we carry over from each program right and so that is the idea is that for somebody to go through that process so they can learn and they can then program even more specific to themself which is why to again if you have any of our programs and you don't have primer prime pro to go with it like to me that's a that's must that is how that's a we taught somebody to program for themselves because it's like okay here's a good template we've already structured it for you it's very basic it's going to get you incredible results for about 90% of the population for sure and then on top of that here is this at home test that you should take yourself and find out where your imbalances are your specifically and then here are movements to help those imbalances that you should integrate yourself into a program whether it's maps or another one that you develop yourself but that is really the intent of these programs it's not get shredded in 30 days or 90 days or sell you on this thing it's like listen go through this because you're going to learn a fuck ton yeah the real the real value of it is that like if you look at your body like we're trying to educate the body you've done a great job at going through the educational process of learning you know acquired knowledge from all different types of pursuits and different trades and skills and you know but as far as like what your body is capable of what kind of attributes you can add to your body what you know what is one of these adaptations look like and you know to be able to feel and experience that I feel like it's very valuable because now you can understand your body specifically on such another level I used to hate it when when I would read muscle magazines or people would I would talk to lifters when I was a kid and it's a hey what's what's the best routine for me like well you got to figure that out for yourself I used to hate that but there's some definitely some truth to it however I wish I had a good template like if somebody gave me an excellent template like maps back then I would have learned my body way faster way faster but instead I had to go through try and error so many fucking times it took me years and years and years to figure that out and through training people and all that stuff so I mean my favorite people who who tend to comment are trainers who get the programs and then learn more about training other people because you know they're applying some of the stuff and figuring out for themselves and that's that's always exciting well that's what I mean you're right when we first started this obviously it was for the masses but we realized that it's appealed a lot to trainers because it's now made all these trainers but which is fucking awesome because I know that if we impact one single trainer that we now are like five to ten clients minimum right I mean minimum they're training five to ten clients I mean now we potentially are affecting you know you know five ten times the amount by going through a trainer which is cool next question is from Joe Buns has CrossFit as a whole done more harm or good for the fitness industry? I think unequivocally they've done more good than harm for the fitness industry they're on a monkey ranch I could definitely argue it both ways I can but I can argue the harm but I think they've done way more good and I am so happy that I've been in the industry as long as I have because I could see it clear it's almost like there was fitness before CrossFit the gym industry before CrossFit and after CrossFit and I could clearly see the changes before CrossFit nobody nobody did barbell squats for sure nobody did barbell deadlifts and for sure women didn't do either one ever in the gym ever I would manage these 30,000 plus square foot facilities like big old monster clubs which get an average of 1500 to 2000 workouts a day just lots of people coming in and the entire gym the whole gym would have one squat rack and no one would use it the plates that the gyms would have and still a lot of gyms have these plates because they bought them a while ago would be these fucking hexagonal stupid plates that you never want to deadlift in but it didn't matter because nobody ever deadlifted and if you've ever deadlifted with a hexagonal plate you know how dangerous that is when you put the weight down and it shifts and it's stupid right but that's because nobody deadlifted so it didn't matter women I had to convince women to use machines let alone use free weights like I had to use convince them just to lift weights then crossfit comes into the scene next thing you know guys are squatting deadlifting women are lifting weights they're in the weight room they single handedly did more for women's resistance training than the gyms did in the previous I don't know how many decades like single handedly crossfit made it cool I think we all agree on that is hexagonal a word? I don't know maybe I think it would be hexagonal maybe if something's hexagonal hexagon weights would be the same right is hexagonal I've heard hexagonal you should've looked it up before you're doing that now let's no I'm right hexagonal of or pertaining to a hexagonal hexagonal there it is I pronounced it wrong hexagonal it's the same word it's like electronical I didn't make up a word the pronunciation's wrong hold on let's see how it sounds there's a sound there let me see hexagonal hexagonal hexagonal you can see how I pronounced it wrong I think they've done a great job as far as getting outside the commercial it was basically the backlash of what that commercial type gym had created global gym crossfit was the answer to that I think they went super extreme with that idea it's brought positives and negatives functional exercises they've incorporated everything is all functional they don't even bench pressing it's not a thing it definitely has this positive impact as far as bringing good exercises back to popularity but on top of that they've also shit on specificity that's where I got angry it was like this I don't care football teams are doing crossfit walks that makes my skin crawl it's just not as effective and then the justification was always this huge push of like academia's got it all fucking wrong and there was no critical there was no dialogue back and forth of like can I be critical right now can I assess what you're programming if that's good is that something that's going to apply towards this specific pursuit like no it's all just super general now early on they're changing by the way I don't know if you guys knew this or not someone messaged me the other day but they're trying to separate the hardcore elite training from the everyday it should look nothing alike no different than it should be like if some kid who came in who's never worked out before do you want me to train LeBron James like no you have no business training whatever I think some of the harm that they did they glorified early on intensity like hardcore to the point where there was this like unofficial mascot for crossfit early on which was a clown throwing up and uncle he was on dialysis too right they called him uncle rhabdo rhabdo is when you work out so hard your muscles you get so much muscle breakdown that your kidneys get clogged and you actually get kidney failure you don't have to talk about that so that was a bad thing putting olympic lifts into circuit based programming that was stupid you should never ever do a highly complex extremely technical lift like a power clean or a snatch when you're doing a circuit or fatigue based routine you just don't do those to fatigue because your form breaks down a little bit and then you're fucked so that was pretty bad they definitely poked at the big gym business from a business standpoint because before crossfit you want to make money in gyms you needed a big box so the irony in you going that direction is because I was going to play devil's advocate because I thought you guys were going to stroke crossfit off the whole time so but I agree I was counting on you to save a sale but I do agree with Sal though I think it has done more good than harm so before I rag on him I want to say that I 100% agree because there wasn't anybody doing squats dead lifts and overpressure you're talking about a percent of the percent out there that we're doing that in the fitness space and I think that's so good I think it's so good for everybody that we're doing this now that being said I was talking to a trainer who's in his early 20s and looking to get into management in one of these big box gyms and he's telling me that crossfit has exploded so much that there is a huge culture within the normal gyms like 24s in planet fitness and stuff that are modeling their workouts after all these walks so here's what I'm worried about is trainers in these big box gyms were already kind of shitty trainers you know it's normally where you get your first experiences in there which I think is incredible for everybody so it's not me talking about it I'm over generalization category 2 so before you get fucking defensive because I said that because you work in a big box gym it's the truth it's a great place to start I think for everybody and so you're not already at a very advanced trainer now you're taking these people through these circuit based routines and you're having them snatch and clean and fucking plios and even if you're not doing that you're modeling it after it because of your clients you're letting your client dictate your programming because of something that's popular because crossfit has become so popular people that are coming in don't want to pay $180 a month for a membership at a crossfit they have a $10 a month plan of fitness or 24-hour fitness are coming in and they're asking to be taught how do I train like that which is why we see these gyms now creating these little crossfit type areas within them because they're trying to compete with that and so I think it's feeding into the worst part of the culture where what we should have done was taken out in fact what has crossfit done really good like if I was still a manager within one of these facilities would I be teaching my staff so all of you managers listening I would be teaching my staff that is teaching this type of training to my clients is listen let's unpack what was really good and what crossfit has brought to fitness and let's start to implement some of that into our training which would be like hey let's teach your people how to squat towards that and let's work towards adding that to all clients even if they say they can't or they don't want to it's like that should be a goal of ours even if they can't do it right now and so taking those things out of it that were so good versus the marketable shit which everybody is chasing after which is the intensity driven and the circuit based. They just got it wrong what they did was and I know what they did you know you have these big corporate gyms it's because there's a bunch of circuits and everybody's getting really sweaty and sore and it's intense and that's what people want and they completely miss the boat completely now for exercise standpoint it's the effective exercises that was important with crossfit but here's the other piece that everybody fucking missed okay fitness is if you want it to be effective from a business standpoint if you want to have a gym that is truly successful from a business standpoint there's a lot of factors and one of the factors is does it feel like you're walking into a community or does it feel like you're walking in and you're working out by yourself makes a big fucking difference and gyms used to be that community feel in fact one of the reasons why the gyms I managed were so successful one of the reasons was I created that feel in my gym and I did it with my staff first because they're the ones that spread it and the other way I did it is I would do events all the time in my gym like I'd have things going on I'd talk to members and people love that shit and you know what crossfit did really fucking well that you go to you ask anybody that works out in crossfit and you ask them what their favorite thing about crossfit is it's the community and gyms forgot that shit in fact it got to that's also why it's such a cult too because you can't how are you going to tell somebody who won is probably in the best shape of their life now that they're training so fucking crazy and then they've met friends you know that they now potentially have for life because it's like going to war dude you go to war every day you know I'm saying like what does everyone always say about anyone they went to war with they come back and like those are like brothers you know I'm saying like we are for lifelong brothers because of that experience they do they create a similar thing psychologically like they create a very similar thing psychologically that you're going to battle a war to accomplish to get through this wad and if you get through it like only some of us survive and it's like we've got this brotherhood now but there's also the community when you go into a good crossfit you see the trainers talking to the members the members talking to each other you don't you rarely see members with headphones on doing their own thing I don't think they do ever yeah right right and that that is powerful I mean I would get more might the gyms I would run you know after a short period of time would get more workouts and I'd have better retention as a result of that creating that vibe and that's how it started we I mean we just got back from the the mecca right the Venice and you could see like what the gym used to look like when it first started was this little hole in the wall that you know probably had one or two speakers somewhere in there if at all if there was even speakers in there and you know everybody you see everyone seen the movie before with with Arnold it's like they're they're pumping iron right there they're all they're doing is talking to each other everyone's you guys yelling across the gym at you know Arnold doing squats on the other side like there was this great community and then what happened you know it became very marketable and there was money and now there became an industry back then it wasn't an industry you know there's a couple gyms it was like a small thing that people did and then what ended up happening was this thing turned into something big and then here comes big money big money comes in finds a way to exploit it to grow it we were a part of that movement right we are part of the exploiting process at that time we were fooled to think that this is how it's supposed to be looking back and reflecting now that we are part of this you know exploiting the you know people's emotions and feelings to want to be in shape to want to be like Arnold and so that's what you see and now it's coming full circle yeah it's coming back the other other direction I think we can we've done this actually we've been in many gyms together there's a few things that we look at okay but for sure the three of us we walk into a gym and we can tell within 10 15 minutes if it's a successful germ or not and one of them one of the factors some of the factors are the sale staff the front desk do they have systems all that other stuff right all that business stuff but the other thing is the vibe in the gym I'll walk into a gym and I'll feel it right away and be like oh this gym is not successful or this gym is that you can feel it and it's that community it's that culture that you create within your facility you know big tax gym you know I'm not talking about all any other factor not the business side of that stuff but the culture in the gym they've got you walk in you can see people talking we share the working together that the owner was talking to the members and you can feel that culture and that's only one factor it's not all of them but it's an important factor and that's something that CrossFit nailed down and that's something that the big box gyms and of course the staff makes a big difference but we weren't taught this this is just something that I did it wasn't like it came down for management this was my own flavor that's something that the big box gyms forgot go to a big box gym now walk into your typical you know whatever 24 fitness or whatever plan of fitness walk in there and members are in there by themselves all by themselves get their headphones on nobody's looking at each other whatever you go into some other gyms with a different culture you see people jumping in in between sets you know I people don't even know what that that etiquette anymore like you go into a big box gym and someone's on a machine you can walk up to them and say hey can I jump in they'll probably look at you like you're crazy what does he mean jump in yeah you know we're gonna jump me yeah yeah no in in a good culture of a gym people know exactly what's going on oh yeah absolutely go ahead and jump in I'll help you rack the weights or whatever like it's a totally different vibe and CrossFit got that right and I unfortunately I don't think the rest of fitness industry picked up on that I really don't but they did pick up on the circuits and shit like that which is all that shit next question is from Michelle Salvis I'm trying to lose 30 pounds of baby weight at 18 months postpartum a trainer at my small box gym recommends higher reps over heavier weight during class style workouts I prefer building strength with heavier weights but should I take his advice no yeah no probably not unless you're like a unless you train like a powerlifter forever and then in which case the right yeah higher reps that'd be the only scenario that would be the depends right so they'll be well depends if you were you know because she didn't give us that like if you had just if you've been training in that three to five rep range for the last three six or whatever time months then absolutely that trainer could be giving you great advice that maybe you should do a more you know higher rep range or circuit base or shorter rest periods like you could probably benefit from that if that's how you if you've been giving yourself long rest periods and training really really heavy but more than likely at least in my experience mostly postpartum right there probably didn't work out for a little while or whatever now here's the deal like the high reps class style workouts burn more calories per time being done in other words one hour of high rep circuit style or class style workouts will burn more total calories than a hour of traditional strength training with heavier weights but that's not the whole picture that's actually just part of the picture and it's not that many more calories you're looking at the difference of maybe you know four hundred calories and two fifty okay not a huge difference the other part of the equation that's very important is how are they gonna affect your metabolism and how that how your metabolism is gonna affect your total calorie burn on an everyday basis you would rather have a faster metabolism and a body that is prioritizing strength over a body that's trying to become efficient because you're burning a ton of calories with lots of endurance style training you're gonna you'll end up screwing yourself if you do that all the time with where you'll get this meditation where your metabolism starts to slow down and I used to love doing this with women where they'd come in and I'd say no we're gonna focus on strength we're gonna focus on traditional resistance training and you're not gonna lose a ton of weight initially but watch what happens give us a few months and watch what happens and the people that would stick with it sure enough they'd come to me and be like I feel like the weight's fallen off me I'm not even doing anything crazy and my body's just getting leaner and I tell them like your metabolism is speeding up your hormones are balancing out like this is exactly what you want to do with your training especially if you're being fed I think a mistake that some of these people will get when they're trying to lose 30 pounds or more is the initial get into your weight training whatever it is whether it be low reps or sort of your calories and then cut your calories like I wouldn't I would make you keep your calories if I want you fed if you're hungry I want you fed right now and then I'm gonna start strength training with you at the beginning and our goal at the first month may not to be to lose any weight whatsoever like we're gonna build some muscle I promise you if you haven't been lifting weights and I put you in a you know like a maps anabolic phase one type of routine where you're lifting that three to five rep range like you're gonna build some muscle and so if at the end of the month we're you know maybe a pound lighter or the same even or even a pound up like we're kicking ass in my opinion because then I know that for sure you're gonna be a building muscle if you're feeding the body and you're also giving it a stimulus like that the big mistake I see people make is maybe giving the right stimulus but then they're not they're starving their body because they're trying to race to that losing that 30 pounds so don't make that mistake it's so hard to and I've seen both sides of this I would have I would see people in the gym who were the cardio bunny you know lots of reps class style workouts and then they get pregnant and they try and keep it up and and they weren't overweight but they weren't super lean they were just kind of maintaining their health and then they'd have the baby and then afterwards they gain the weight and then they try that same approach and I would just watch them it would just be this uphill difficult battle of trying a hamster wheel yeah trying to burn tons of calories constantly over and over again especially after having a baby boy that's difficult and then on the other end of the spectrum I would see people that would come in who were like these women who'd like to lift weights and they have these very sculpted bodies because they always lifted weights and then they would get pregnant and they would bounce back so fast yeah like so so fast we have members in our forum who take videos of themselves working out like two months or something like that post post baby and they look phenomenal and they were like hard you know heavy into the resistance training makes a tremendous tremendous difference I can't stress it enough yeah at the end of the day when you have a solid frame that you know you've built muscle upon like that's that's where like turning the the calorie burn kind of sequence on and off like that that's where it all starts to kind of play out the way you want but like going through the process of building the muscle and like getting a nice foundation established is so crucial and allow yourself to kind of go through that process it's not like this this this race like right out of the gates like I have to shed shed shed shed shed which is such a trap I mean that's something like I mean my wife even went through that the second because the the workouts were different going into our second kid and it's just it's one of those things like it you get this panic about it you know and like I understand it because you know having to deal with that mindset it's it's it's inside of a lot of us like we want to get to that goal you want to get to that smash go but you're going to set yourself up for more problems down the road yeah absolutely it's it's it just traditional resistance training is one of the best things you could do in the context of modern life to maintain a lean body because it speeds up your metabolism better than anything and you know how often have you guys heard this from women like oh my god me and my husband go on a diet and I lose three pounds and he loses ten pounds right away well he's got more muscle he's got a lot more muscle this is why men you know this is why that stereotype or that you know that that doesn't get talked about that's why it exists is that guys tended to have more muscle and when guys go to work out they're less likely to do the tons of cardio right and when women will go to work and that's just because we've been advertised differently that's all it is it's just it's less acceptable for women to go lift weights for their workout than it is for them to go take a class some type of a robes class or a dance class or something like that and the opposite for men it's less likely acceptable for a man to go take a bunch of classes than for him to be like oh I'm just going to go to the gym and lift some weights it's that resistance training that makes the big difference especially postpartum because you lose a lot of muscle and strength you know how we're going to know when that's changed when you walk into a gym and they have two to three weight room floors yes you know that has it still the opposite still yeah you can double cardio you got you go in at five o'clock at night into any gym across the country right now and every piece of equipment is being is being used cardio yeah being used and there's so and there's so that means there's probably double to triple the amount of people doing cardio than there is in the gym it lifting weights and so I think when that that's when I feel like when our message will have resonated with with the industry long enough will you start to see the gyms having to respond to that going holy fuck like yeah there's a lot of demand for three weights there's always treadmills open because we have fucking 90 of them you know I'm saying like there's a there's if there's 120 people in here you know I'm saying 90 of them are on these treadmills it's like when we no longer have a need for 90 treadmills in our gym and we need two to three to four weight floors or three to four to five sets of every weight of dumbbell like that's when you know she just Jessica and I were coaching this this one client who was a long distance she was an endurance she liked to do the running she liked to run a lot and she wanted to lose body fat and she had just had a baby and she would send me her food logs and she was running anywhere I think she was running between between 12 to 17 miles a week so a decent amount of running not a super ton but decent amount of running and this woman first off she was she had the skinny fat right so she wasn't heavy but she wasn't very sculpted or whatever and that was her big issue she wanted to tighten up her body she would she looked exhausted all the time and that was another issue she had but she was still doing a running she'd send me her food logs and this woman was barely consuming 1300 calories a day you know running 17 fucking miles or 12 to 17 miles a week and I told her I'm like listen here's the deal like we got to switch things up and it's going to take a little while but your two options are run twice as much eat less or we speed up your metabolism and we know what the other ones get like do you really think that's going to be sustainable especially now with two kids and so we had to like reverse out of it and increase her protein and slowly increase her calories and have her focus on resistance training but her body started changing she started tripping out and it was so crazy to her because and I've seen this so many times it's a trip because it's like this is what they feel like oh my god I'm doing so much less work but my body responding so well it feels like magic and it's like no you were just spinning your tires in the dirt before you were literally trying to dig a ditch with the spoon and I've now handed you a fucking backhoe and you and you're tripping over how much faster you're progressing but it's just because we're just more effective working with your body that's it so and with that look a lot of people don't realize that we're all on Instagram where you can actually find our personal pages with different information you can find our personal flavors on Instagram my page is mine pump sal Adam is mine pump Adam and Justin is mine pump Justin go check us out thank you for listening to mine pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgbsuperbundle at minepumpmedia.com the rgbsuperbundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgbsuperbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal 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