 over again. It was very easy for that ink to bleed at any rate. It exhausted my patients and I thought, I can't take this any longer. Furthermore, if I graduate, I'm probably going to be doing plumbing and wiring specs for gas stations. It didn't seem as glamorous as I wanted it to be. My heroes were Mies van der Rohe and Frank Lloyd Wright. I thought this will never happen. I ended up studying literature and getting a degree in literature. When I was at a major life crisis of, what am I really going to do with this? What do I want to do? I was in a museum in Washington and was looking at paintings and listening to a conversation from some people my age. The conversation was very stimulating. It was about what they were doing, about the work that they were creating. It was obvious that they were art students, art and design students. What I realized was that this museum was also a school, it was a museum school. I took a summer class, loved the experience more than I can adequately describe. I actually felt unshackled. For the first time in my life, I thought the answer is not in the back of the book. It's within me. I said to a group of you at our table earlier today, each of you, you're each different. You each have different DNA. You each have different thresholds of thought, different points of view. I said if we were to put something as mundane as a bottle of water in front of each of you and ask you to draw it for 15 minutes, if there are 425 of you, we're going to have 425 very different looking drawings. I ended up majoring in sculpture. I did work that was very architectural, so that never left me. When I graduated, I was also faced with a conundrum. Now what am I going to do to put food on the table? I ended up building architectural models for three firms in Washington, D.C. Then I was invited to teach. A former teacher of mine was looking for an assistant for a summer school program for high school students. She said, I need a teaching assistant. Will you do it? I wasn't going to say no to where I revered this individual. After that experience, she said well now I've had someone, she was the head of the fine arts program at the school, I've had someone drop out who was teaching three dimensional design and I can't think of anyone I'd rather have do this than you. Of course I said yes. I was very excited about it, but it was the first time I was alone in a classroom leading it and I have to share something with you. For the first week of classes, every single morning I would throw up and in class I would have to brace myself against the back of the classroom wall when I addressed the students because if I were to step away from the wall, my knees were shaking so badly I would just collapse in a heap. So I was a wreck and I went to my mentor, the former teacher who hired me, her name was Rona Slade, a great Welsh woman and I said to her what am I going to do? This is a horrible experience. On the one hand I love the idea of teaching, on the other hand look what it's doing to me and she turned to me and she said very matter of factly, this experience will either kill you or cure you and I'm counting on the latter end of conversation and of course it did cure me eventually and who knew I was going to spend the next 29 years in a classroom in one way or another. So I continued with my sculpture, eventually I have to tell you I found teaching to be so creative and so purging and cathartic creatively that I left the sculpture. It could happen again, who knows. But it was, I really became a career educator. I was invited to teach and be part of the admissions team at Parsons in 1983 and moved to New York but I have to tell you something else. I was actually invited and I'm only embellishing this because I was talking to many of you earlier about risk-taking and fear. I was actually invited a year earlier in 1982 and turned it down and turned it down for a number of reasons, one of which was I was very happy and content so absolutely no reason to change my life and the other was a fair amount of fear. I thought why would I leave my comfort zone? Why would I do this? But so much happened to me in the course of the next 12 months that when I was invited again I didn't hesitate to say I'll do it, I'll be there. And I have to explain, it wasn't an out and out offer. I came to New York, I had an interview, they did offer me the job but it wasn't as though oh yeah this is just going to immediately happen. And then real fear set in and I will also tell you, sorry Caroline this is going on and on, we're only up to 1983, it was a very difficult transition. I mean the adjustment from Washington to New York was profound and it almost didn't work. I almost when I went back to see my family for Thanksgiving that first year I thought maybe you won't go back. It's so much more comfortable here, it's so much easier here but I didn't. I withstood it and I'll fast forward. I became associate dean in that capacity I was a Mr. Fix-It-Awards, you like to hear me say a pooper scooper. So I was sent into places in the school that were in trouble and the fashion design department here in this building was in a serious state of disrepair. Part of it was a crisis of leadership, the chair was leaving and there was a void left and part of it was a curriculum that hadn't changed in more than 50 years. It's fashion, it's all about change. So it was an industry that I knew only marginally about. I had I was on a huge learning curve, I was sent up here to offer up a diagnosis for what was wrong with the whole situation and a prescription for how to make it work as I say. In fact that may have been the first time I said it. I just want to stop for one second. Just kind of reflect on some of the things that yes because I want to get back to being in fashion in a way. But you know I what I find super interesting about this is again it's not a circuitous route. This idea that you have had interest that sometimes are super wide and then narrow down whether it's looking at sculpture or architecture and then you're looking at design in a broader sense. And also this idea that sometimes you suck it up and do something that's really scary for you. Often. And that's something I think that a lot of some of the folks that we have talked to and work with that that can be a hard thing for someone. Absolutely. And particularly if you're in a field that your parents might not understand too well or know that much about to be able to kind of have that conversation to say this is a something I want to do and b I might want to do it even though it's so new to me that it's so scary that that's a very important thank actually thank you for analyzing it and saying when the many reasons why I love Caroline Payson but you know on that topic of the parents a group of students and I were talking earlier about social media and and I mean I'm so aware that for for those you teens social media is such a vital part of your life and you've grown up with that and for me and I'm older than your parents I believe it's it's only a little blip and when I think about how different the world is and and the possibly that your parents aren't understanding or particularly empathetic with what it is you may want to do if you even know what you want to do yet it's it's just the way things are today and it's something to navigate that that's I won't call it an obstacle as much as a challenge and it's one that you need to rise to so my my career path message is you don't know where life's going to take you you need to be ready for it to take to take you wherever it may and you need to be ready to look at those little percolating bubbles that may be happening in front of you and say that's a possible opportunity I should explore that is that how you got to be on project runway well actually if I had if the producer said listen to me when they first called me we would never have even met because I was in my chair's office here in this building and the project runway producers called me and they introduced themselves and said that they were looking for a consultant for a show about a reality show about fashion and my response was a reality show about fashion this industry has enough trouble without that and I didn't want to meet with them so I did they we had a very interesting conversation I didn't hear from them even though they had they I was very excited by our conversation and then later I did once it was out of my brain altogether and I thought well this could be an interesting opportunity but my role in the show didn't exist talk about fear they came to me a week before the designers were arriving and said we think we need someone to be a mentor in the work room and no one said to explain why and I didn't ask but I suspect it's because they were fearful that the designers would go into the work room and no one would talk they would do their work work work work it would go back to the runway and be presented but there wouldn't be any conversation about what's going on so by sending me in or anyone like me to probe and to ask questions they were sure to send some dialogue but I hadn't been before a camera I was completely and I was soaked in my own juices it was terrifying at the same time I have to tell you what was more terrifying was finding out that I would actually end up in the cut of the show which I didn't know until the show aired because I thought oh as long as they have the designers responding to me no one needs to see me no one needs to hear my voice but that was my way of rationalizing how I could go into that work room every day and not shake from the knees down so I have a question you did it anyway so what got you through doing that even though it made you so nervous first of all a desire for an adventure a desire for the whole possibility of growth from a new experience and I love throwing the dice I just do I mean you look at me you think they're look at that stuffy old fart and externally I certainly am but but internally I am by nature a risk taker I've been doing it my whole life and and I have to say to I'm comfortable taking risks in fact the repositioning of this fashion program was an enormous risk and some of you heard me say that it wasn't a very popular one in the industry I was much maligned and reviled and there was a horrible article and women's were daily about me and about how you should get rid of him he's not good for this industry and then later it was through but I have to say choose because I had people around me who were supportive at the dean of the school and the president of the university hadn't been supportive I would have been fired like that from this position but seeing through risk taking and seeing that it can take you to a better and higher place is what gets me excited about it does it sometimes fail yes that's why it's called a risk but when it's successful it's thrilling and the rush that you get from that is like nothing I experienced at any other time so project runway was a big risk so a risk for some of these guys might be applying to design school yes do you have any advice for somebody who might be thinking about that well let me put it this way if you want to be a designer and any of the disciplines that that that are here today that surround us here today you need to study the discipline I just don't believe in self-made designers and and and self-taught designers I mean some of some some fields architecture interiors I mean you have to be licensed so you're gonna have to have a degree of some sort for representing the discipline but in others you really can be self-taught and enter them through a back door so to speak I but this is also the educator me speaking I fundamentally don't believe in it and it's not only the body of knowledge that that you experience and absorb and synthesize it's also the the social dynamic it's you and your peers it's you and your faculty it's the whole critique experience it's it's a profound one and it's something that can't be replicated in any in any other form and it also for anyone creative who's making anything that's creative it's coming from your soul in a manner of speaking and the whole notion that someone might bring some negative critical analysis to that when you haven't been through several years or more of critiques that can be very unsettling it feels though your skin's been ripped off you're suddenly laid bare raw and it's unset it's it's it's more than unsettling it's it's can be debilitating and the critique allows or it's studying that these any of these disciplines allows you to realize that it's not personal I don't want to say something else though of course I've never had a loss for words good education and any of these design disciplines here today I believe allows you to also design across disciplines perhaps not practice across disciplines again I reflect upon architecture and interiors but it because you you have a wonderful understanding and experience with problem-solving and that isn't going to just be in your personal career or your professional career it's going to be in your personal life we solve problems every day and it's it's something I will always well it's with me every day my my own art and design educational experiences and one of the things that I love most designers make this world a much more beautiful place and a safer place a place that we can understand better I believe designers give back every day through their professional work and that's why one reason I'm so committed to the teen design fair and and to being on the education committee of the Cooper Hewitt is this is an investment in each of you you're the future you are you are going to be running our world and designing our world and directing it and what a huge responsibility so those of us who were a generation or more senior to you have responsibilities to give back to you as well and am I am I answering this adequate I think so but but it's it's just a very important role you know if we don't have each other I don't know what we do have and as citizens of the world we have a lot of responsibilities and I would say we first have responsibilities to ourselves and then we have responsibilities to each other and it's about being a good citizen of the world and and a responsible one thanks we're gonna turn it over for any of you who have some questions there are two one mic stand or two people going around other people going around with microphones so if you have a question raise your hand and would really appreciate it if you spoke into the mic and also told us your name and what where you're from what school you're from good which is off the ground with this moment of reckoning to be part of that or and to bear witness to it is the most thrilling thing I ever experienced okay thank you that was a big answer I didn't know where I was going with that until I went there but it's true hi thank you hold it like a rock star yeah maybe it's that sounds like it's off my thoughts on graduate school um I think I really believe it depends upon the end the individual I will tell you I have a very personal belief about it if you're going to go to graduate school work between leaving undergraduate school and going to graduate school first you'll be much better informed about what you really want to get out of graduate school and secondly you need some time away from school you need some time in the real world the idea of going directly from undergrad to grad I'm not a fan I'm just not and I'm I'm mostly going to say it's different for everybody but in broad strokes and generally speaking that's my belief and and also when you get out and work you may find you don't need graduate school you may you may find that working is that graduate school experience I find that that's very true in fashion thank you hi hi can we get a mic over you there's one coming up right behind you we just want everyone to hear your question especially us hi I'm Gemily Perez and I want to ask you um what do you see yourself doing in the future like are you happy with yourself or what accomplishments oh my goodness I'm the I'm the luckiest happiest guy I know um I couldn't I you know when I speculate about about the future I have to tell you I have done so much I have I'm so thrilled with what I've been able to achieve and I have to say it's not up and alone it's been because I have a lot of great people with me and around me and with whom I work and engage every day I mean life's a big collaboration I say it all the time but I would never even dream of saying oh I want to do X so I want to do why I think it would be hubris I mean I think it would be like throwing hubris in the face of an angry god to say that because I am so lucky I pinch myself every day I can't believe it I mean 12 seasons a project one way I still pinch myself and thank you you know you walk the red carpet with Heidi Klum at the Emmys and you think am I really doing this it's it's surreal I'm I'm extremely lucky thank you and very happy oh now we've got a lot of questions hi hi um besides being motivated what do you think is needed in order to see where are you I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm over here and what's your name I'm standing on and I go to high school fashion industry and I'm like Nina very popular so besides being motivated what do you think is needed or to succeed besides being motivated tremendous tenacity on a love and passion for what you do and loving doing it not not looking at the golden ring that you could possibly possess but looking just loving doing what you do day in and day out and when I say tenacity you need to be like a weeble if someone topples you over you need to bounce right back up if you're toppled over and you just want to cry and huddle and stay there get out of it don't even think about it don't study it I mean I have to tell you in these design disciplines there is no room for weak sisters there just isn't right Chris there's no room there are too many people it's too competitive there too many people who do love to do it if you're just seduced by the glamour or the trappings or or what you think the life will be like it's tough it's rough it's dirty it's gritty and unless you have that passion for it you won't want to do it someone what one of one of the students asked me today about project runway is it hard and I said no well I have to tell you from me first of all let's use the the challenge that the the questioning what I'm doing and not believing as as the catalyst first you have first of all you have to go through a fair amount of soul-searching about whether there's any truth and what the individual saying because maybe there is if they're trying to push you in this industry it's all been healed and well I won't say it's all been healed and repaired most of it's been healed and repaired since but I'm so proud of what was achieved here that it made it all worth it and but at the time it didn't matter it may have been if an experiment that was going to fail but it was an experiment and that's how we have to think about most of life it's an experiment and you may fall back and regroup from some things but other things you'll realize were the right thing to do but everything as I said everything really should should be a collaboration I don't think we do most things as solos including design work it's informed by other things and other people but it's about believing in yourself thank you thank you it's a good question hi good evening my name is camsie I'm from the high school fashion industry that's a good okay um I had a question on my question was like on who motivated you like who who motivated you and pushing you to be who you are today well I was lucky to have parents who were very supportive though I tormented them for most of my youth and teens I was a difficult kid but they were very supportive especially of education and I had it when I was studying art and design I had the best teachers I've ever had in my life and I still am in touch with them and I still love and cherish them and they were just hugely important mentors because they always put it on my head it was never about I was never saying to the teacher well maybe I did what can you do for me they always turned it around well what are you doing for yourself I'm here to support you but you've got to take the action here and it was just I'm repeating myself hugely important so we all need mentors we all need people who are important to us we need people we trust on and for me they were always the grown-ups I have to say more than my peers but that's but that's me everyone's different it could be sibling it could be friends on it could be a significant other but but for me it was always those grown-ups who were role models I hate to do this but we're running out of time I want you a couple of things before you we all leave one is I want a round of applause to thank every designer in this room yes second a big shout out to Target for sponsoring this event thank you target yes and finally I'd like to thank Tim oh no please no thank you all I just want to wish all of you tremendous success a continued wonderful trajectory on the path you're on now and remember believing yourself be tenacious and also listen and thank you all okay thank you