 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. So if I was bullied in the day in the dormitories where you slept at the end of the bed the other bar that come off I would set the bar off in the middle of the night they're screwed on now but I'll set the bar off at the end of the bed and do the kid in half way through the night now in a matter of no time I had to be sleeping in the cells because I was untrustworthy to sleep in dormitories because I would attack whoever attacked me the dormant went out, come back with a gun because they knew that the massive firm was all capable pulled the gun a massive firm, right? Yet again, there was it already the dormant was at an onslaught, bottled to death put a van through a couple of their clubs shot a couple of doors off with a shotgun one of the most exciting things I've ever did in my life but I had a shotgun, mentally knew that I most probably sometime in my career I most probably end up with a life sentence so why not begin it young? I was ready to surrender to myself what was going to become of me you sexually abuse you, you burn your testicles off they will cut your lips off to pull your teeth out Ben Moron and today's guest we've got Silvers Paul Doyle How are you brother? Good to see you Nice to be out Very known in Underworld, very popular name Just out of prison, spent nearly 30 years of it inside very well connected but now that you're here today to tell you're too, it's an amazing thing I believe I'm connected to friends I don't know about friends You're looking well Thank you So I'll go back to the start of my guests where you grew up and how it all began Well it all began in the 50s when my mother who was a young Jewish girl big breasts standing out of bus stop she met my father who was a big Irish man a super heavyweight and then the clit I couldn't tell you what year it was but I know it was in the 50s then the next thing that happened was by the time my mother was 25 she had seven children six lads, one girl the girls the oldest then between them both things never clit I don't know why but this girl four went with my mother three went with my father I went with my father become Christian the Catholic passed me over to communion in Oddsall then the other four become Jewish so even though your mother is Jewish makes you Jewish I become a Catholic now my father had to bring up me, Michael and my sister Elaine so when my dad in them days I don't think you could get social nobody had any money so my dad had to go to work then come home from work and he had to go working again as a personal bodyguard gambling was illegal so he did that as a job when he went out at night time me and my brother Michael who's one year older than me he was about eight I was seven and we started burglaring we knew it was in our genetics don't ask me why but we started burglaring places shops nobody had any money we was just to get what we ever wanted softies, cakes, whatever we started burglaring shops then we started to go for the money then the next thing that happened was we kept on getting caught hanging about Manchester at three o'clock in the morning two o'clock in the morning seven years, eight years of age the police was pausing Pringle's home even at that age we was getting good idings by him when you got home you got another good idin so that carried on then before the age of nine we was uncontrollable and my dad couldn't keep us in the house when he went back to work I was put in care now the care homes was how can you describe it military run it's like suddenly becoming a gladiator would have to be taught how to be a gladiator so in them days when I say military run, eight years of age I had a pair of boots short pants a jumper with number 80 on the back and he was in house units one arms distance stand to attention stand at ease you would march through every corridor stop stand to attention again you slept in dormitories then you was more or less got these being two world wars you were I think they had that attitude to treat you to go over the trenches you still had that mentality in the sixties like sixties in the seventies everything was yes sir, no sir I will sir that was us bad how was it being away from your dad did you struggle or was it just survival mode straight away how can you say it I had to see my dad he had two jobs it was my sister believe it or not who was ten years of age it was like a mother figure to me she was the one she still is she still told me off now she must be the only one then Paula she was the one that had some bass listening to your bass but you accepted what was coming it's a part of obviously by the time I got out I was intersucinalised but that was the path of life where it doesn't after a week or two weeks it's painless it's painless you have to accept because you're only young you accept what's coming on the corner do you become numb to that life at a young age yeah it is in later on a lot later on I've been in a system where big powerful men have burst out in tears and the system will say to a man up and even at a young age you have to man up you have to be ready for what comes you can't hide in the shadows what's going to come and even if it's face full or whatever when did you start getting the reputation of one punch when did you start learning how to find what do you call it when I got put away at eight years of age you were learning to punch back you wasn't there to be punched that's the first thing you accept don't forget this is the catholic of blue school and I was the only in this the catholic of blue school dark skin black hair and I knew I had to punch back because I was only small in stock here and I was the youngest in the place I had to not only punch up I had to bring another man down so if I was bullied in the day in the dormitories where you slept at the end of the bed the other bar that come off I would set the bar off in the middle of the night but I would set the bar off at the end of the bed and do the kid in half way through the night now in a matter of no time I had to be sleeping in the cells because I was untrustworthy to sleep in dormitories because I would attack whoever attacked me now I couldn't now this most probably give me a path in life to bring a man down to my side because I think in all my life I've never punched down I've always had to punch up so this is just a learning how to handle it more or less drink your own blood no surrender and where young kids now I mean young kids are big powerful lads now and it wasn't in them days now all my time in the reform schools I never seen one lad knock another lad out it was all about punching with speed and lasting the distance to the other kid giving there was never no knockouts if another man fell to the floor you'd be forever kicking him forget them queensberries our generation which was a new generation before us they would drill the same way to go over the trenches our generation learnt something new and that was the F word F U we want you to do this F U and that's what it was about we wasn't there to be mugged off and that was the big difference in the generations before you we were totally different we that would if they asked us to go over the trenches we were most obviously F U but I'll go after you see the screws see when they beat you up did it make you anti authority straight away you hate the fault of too well before that it's like your genetics yes sir, no sir and believe it or not what how can I explain it what you learn anybody that's been through what I've been through and gone through the system they learn to turn the other cheek and what I mean by that is where in the early days as a child if you hit back you're finished you'll be screaming for your mother the coppers even when I used to run away from the reform schools and even at the age of 12 we was pinching cars getting away sleeping in cars now one day I was arrested at 12 years of age and when I was arrested at 12 years of age I had 300 pounds in my pocket which is like 3 grand now if not more so the coppers what it's and this is 12 years of age the coppers what it's and know where I got the 300 pounds from so obviously I said I stole it from my own house hoping they'll give it back to my dad yeah so then they gave me a little slap then they gave me another slap then I slapped back I thought F U I'm going down with a fight they slapped back 12 years of age they said come on Paul we're taking you back to your reform school what was already in they cuffed me up behind my back as I was leaving the cell because I was fighting back every time they hit me they threw me back in now I think this changed my life they threw me back in and pounded me for about 5 minutes left the cell covered in my own blood they cut me even under the eye it was covered in it they had to take me to hospital now but when they left the cell I got up sat on the seat thinking wow wow how fantastic is that 2 big coppers couldn't finish me off so I'm thinking now if they couldn't finish me off how can anybody in these reform schools I'm not on about the screws I'm on about the other labs how can anyone do that because I knew I was capable of taking the points from there onwards so that made you tougher and more confident that you could take anything I knew then if 90% of my fights when somebody would put it on me mentally I used to think to myself I'm in trouble because I'm looking up I don't I know they're looking down so I know they're going to come in on me so I would onslaught and straight away I wouldn't allow them to set the second breath I'll be in on them straight away and what do you call it so I knew I could take a punch when people talking later on in life I was one hour in everybody one punch in everybody to me that was the bonus my heart and what I was capable of was receiving more than anything else Boston no I didn't there were approved schools because of my aggressive behaviour and because of the system then realising that on a daily basis I was defending myself attacking other kids whatever going out even one time I ran away from the reform schools I think this time was about I ran away from the reform schools we robbed a couple of warehouses what did you get fantastic story as it happens I robbed a warehouse in the middle of Salford most pathetic thing you've ever heard as we robbed this warehouse I was like no I was about 14 I was with these kids I was 16 from my own neighbourhood as I come on home leaving that now when I was with these kids we robbed a warehouse they was doing what kids do smashing the warehouse up I go in the office to see what was there massive old Victorian safe so I'm looking in the drawers I see a key about four inches long even at a dumb age I'm thinking nobody can be that stupid for that kid to fit the safe yeah so then put the key in the safe it works open the safe these three and a half grand there shut the safe yeah because these kids would have thought the money off met being a lot older and shared it out between a lot of them whatever so I put the key back then it's next to the year well as we was getting out no I put the money in the underpunks so these kids can't find it so as we was leaving the place the police are there they chased us down the liver bank they let the dogs on us I buried the dog I'm an animal lover but I buried the dog copies done me in again took me to hospital full of blood I go to hospital at four years of age they want to give me a needle I'm thinking that they would find the money as I drop my underpants to give me a needle because they had a couple of stitches of the beating what the police gave me then I said look I've got a big birthmark on my bottom can I just take out the needle at the top of the box so they did that I go back to the police station because then now we want to be quizzed they found out these three and a half grand missing these kids because it was a lot like it is now and you would never get a slush it off nobody knew nothing to say that was unheard of and everybody received good items everybody so these kids were screaming they've had no money they've not seen any money they was right they haven't had any money and they haven't seen any money now because I was covered in blood it looked like I've already took my cooking they said where's the money part I said I don't know what you're on about this person so my father come because I'm going to go back to the reform schools my father come and he said goodbye to me as I'm going to go away again and I said to him dad I've got this because it's a waste of time me taking it back giving the three and a half grand he said for your own sake don't say anything you'll get yourself in more trouble I'm going to hide this now and I was buzzing for him no doubt he bought new carpets how was it like when you're leaving your dad and stuff is that hard for you or you're just so in the system then and so numb towards life that it's just a normal experience for you no because if you've got how can you explain it if you've got a picture of something like I suppose it's part of religion people look at Jesus Christ and there's people there that have never met the person we're worshiping and it's like somebody saying to me that's your father so inside my head that's somebody special to me even though the ten years I was away I never had any visits that was something special to me now in end days the Victorian days you was allowed one visit out every month so that's when we used to go out then towards the end we'll have to say 1782 you was wearing long pants again it was a totally different settle but there was still a lot of fighting between the lads how's the communication with your friends and that and how did you build a strong relationship with people was everybody just out for himself well everyone's how can you explain it the reform school is what I went to where a special unit I got sent to a special unit and this is why I know that criminality is more or less genetics because when I got sent to this special unit they said to me your brothers are in there now I said who's my brothers he said Bradley and Wayne in this special unit for kids that are extra trouble I went to this special unit and this was the first time I met my brothers now when they was getting a visit of my mother they said to my mother you've got another son in there Paul he never gets any visits will you give him a visit now that was the first time I've seen my mother when I left my mother I was dust over the place of age so that was the first time I've seen my mother so then after that I got to Wadikaw I got to know my two brothers for about four weeks then because I had a fight with this female murderer right again 50-50 at this time it was punch for punch they couldn't send her anywhere because of what she did this was the only special unit Wodawa so I got sent to Rizgaru prison at a very young age then you got sent to Kirk Levington which was a detention centre because they wouldn't allow me to go out now a detention centre you train and train and train three times a day now that got me into training burpees pressurised that I loved Kirk Levington now I was in there for a while then I got normally you would spend three months in Kirk Levington then go home but they wouldn't with me they sent me back to another Reformed School St. Thomas Moes now I asked could I go to a Reformed School what the brothers was in the brothers left the special unit ended up at Reformed Schools themselves and they said no Reformed Schools won't be able to control you so they knew the system knew I had some sort of problem some aggressive mannerism how was it seeing your mum for the first time I was I mean it was like meeting a probation officer it meant nothing to me the picture I had on the wall was my father what about your brothers were you happy that you had seen your brothers when they don't forget I was never took to court I was there the first charge I was put away at 8 too young to go to court you couldn't be in court for 10 years to use age of 10 I ran away I think I was about 10 and a half 11 and a half I ran away from the Reformed Schools selecting toilets around Manchester 5 o'clock in the morning about barricades 5 o'clock in the morning come out the toilets what was sleeping what was locked at night come out the toilets got a first got a milk bottle from a shop started drinking that was my first charge the cop had seen me drinking the milk bottle drinking the milk shivering and that was my first charge that's mad as well like a 10 year old kid homeless in this city just try to live that wouldn't happen now but back then it was a shop sharp treatment or something I used to get it was like robotic the kids used to get up at a certain time they used to all dress the same but the screws used to kick fuck out them not only the police they'll handcuff you behind your back they'll scream like everybody gets it everybody gets it now what they call it these obviously eugenetics eugenetics paddy genetics we come from Vikings Mary Queen of Scots got 20,000 Spaniards over to fight the English so it's all fighting material a lot of genetics in Ireland so the Irish are fighting genetics and that's where part of my genetics have come from so when the system brings you up to be a graduate or fighting every day willing to go on the battlefield so at the end of it when you're coming out the reform schools all they're doing is cutting a chain and when you're you're out in the outside world apart from the one days your own leave it's a new world to me I've never paddled in the sea I've never really gone and enjoyed so much did you see when you got your home leaves as a kid where did you go yeah you went to the blocks of flats in Manchester the area where I got put away was all two up and two down houses front room, kitchen rooms then when I got when I was coming home over the years they all got pulled down and there was all blocks of flats so you went on home leave you got into Manchester by train at 10 o'clock and you had to be back at the station at 5 o'clock so when you're talking once a month you're talking about 6 hours out so all you did was spending your block of flats spending your 10 years in a proof school what did you do when you came out well that's a good question because that was the start yeah that was the start of your journey but it's to give people an understanding of how you end up involved in the life line this is why these interviews are so powerful because people need to get an understanding of why men become the men that they are from the rough environment from the broken home and fighting your whole life to then survive and being on the streets homeless at 10 did it also fool you in rage as well Paul that you thought fuck it did you ever feel not loved as well where that becomes an effect in your life from a young age no because you don't cry over that because you don't know nothing if somebody had that and lost that then you would cry for that but if somebody hasn't had that there's no tears if somebody had acted you realize that you would look at us person without verbally exchanging and I would know straight away what his attitude is with his eyes so I would go on with the onslaught but it sounds stupid but that's how you are you become aware in your own head you're telling your own self a story what is about to happen about the reform schools I didn't know anybody I've been away all my life I didn't have friends now it was the same as my brothers they've been away all their lives one of them is the shyest kid on the planet he still is he never he come out the reform school away and he won't talk to anyone he never talked to anyone to is about 27 why is that because of the way the system prior he was in himself the system more or less taught him to say nothing apart from yes sir, no sir I will go over the trenches that's how it brought Europe but he was an army of them now I remember seeing a documentary about what's he called the big fighting lad in London Lenny McLean and the kid he had a fight with those two was like the most aggressive in London they was brought up with the reform schools and that's why they banned the reform schools so they were brought up with the same mentality conditioning, tough men the reform schools the only way to describe them is in the film school remember the film school where they wear big embrace and they wear boots and it's kicking off all the time and that's exactly where that's exactly what it was like but he was getting you ready for a world of violence and it was saying if I'm going out I'm murdering places I'm at the age of 14 I've got three and a half hundred pound in my pocket where the normal kid would never see that and say I've had thousands I'm not coming out to be a window cleaner I'm not coming out to be a brick rail I'm coming out to be a villain I couldn't read and write I didn't know what vowels was I couldn't spell I was dyslexic so nobody's going to give me a job so I'm coming out so I come out not somewhere above his doors the local pub what I started to drinking I'm still living with my father at the block of flats I got a lease from the age of eight I had come out just before my 18th birthday like I said I'm not somewhere above his door we started to drinking a local now in this local I was ready for the outside world started to fight one or two fights then that was the first knockout I did then the next thing is I was beginning to get a reputation people realised he was coming down every time somebody seemed they couldn't believe I was the kid with this reputation at eleven and a half stone not because in my head I knew that I was capable because of the beating from the coppers that I was capable of second punches I knew the other person whoever punched me was also these knuckles on my head didn't bother me they brought my chin down I knew they were in trouble as soon as it started but I was knocking everybody out but to the big six foot six foot was a massive I in them days but I was because I was stocky I was always like fought in stone if I were to pull a bird in them days all I had to do was wear a t-shirt and it's unbelievable because I had a good physique 30 inch waist and I was 14 stone and that was before steads come out I've never took a stead in the life I never had to but people were just eleven stone as swell stone as so I was fighting with weight as well so then I started to get a reputation but in the local where I was at there was another aggressive who went through the system like I have another aggressive young firm which was led by Paul Massey I don't know if you've ever heard of him yeah yeah beautiful kid who was led by Paul Massey now Paul Massey had a gang that worshiped him Robin Massey, the McDonald's brother very well known kids around Salford now they was at criminality before they were swenny they were out burglaring then they went to the next stepping stone and the next stepping stone was where in them days if somebody was to get wages they would go to the bank to pick up the wages or as a shopkeeper was to collect money our day they would go to the bank to put the money in the night safe yeah we would be there waiting for them things to happen and we would be robbing them and that's where I got involved with them because I was more or less because of my reputation as they was to grab the money and we had any superheroes coming I was ready to what he called it to stop them coming along see because everything went through at a young age do you become fearless at a certain age in your life well you can handle getting punched you can handle in a fight you can handle doing robberies does it just become so easy because all the shit that you went through from as a kid yeah but it's not only that I mean you can't fail us then you think to yourself this is what I am this what could lie ahead now what could lie ahead in them days there was no shootings forget about people being shot that never happened for a couple of years afterwards in fact I was one of the first to get shot at with a shotgun I had pellets at the bottom of my legs but in those years all you would get is a good hiding from other firms that's all you would get you would get good hiding from the police you would most probably have you realised you might have spent so many years in the prison so you accept what could be coming and as soon as you've surrendered to what could be coming the more face you are the more uncaring you are see when you started getting a reputation of being a man who could fight see when people seen you do you then become a target and be tested more because you were smaller than the man who was 6 feet 6 feet 1 because I had a reputation and because I was young and now when I had a reputation I had a foreign most of my life I've had a foreign right so these kids who how can I say these kids who are capable and I know the way the mannerism are I'll be ready to attack them first I'm not going to wait for them to attack me I'll most of you have heard of them anyway so I would be attacking them first so my reputation rolls so when these on the odd time people would want to want to want on the odd time but normally when I used to go in a place and used to be 4 or 5 lads already already known we could be in a place 2 minutes 3 minutes why wait for them we'll do the onslaught first and I realise and that's been the path of my life years on could you read situations well because of being on your own for so many years could you read situations well and read people well it's part of survival but you become aware you've got hyenas around you now say the likes of me more so palm I say the likes of me palm I say people with big names they become what I would call a front runner yeah and now what I mean by a front runner there could be 10 being a football hero hundreds of times I've run in so stupid 50 lads because I know I'm a front runner that's expected of me so if there's a firm that then it could be 20 30 whatever I will steam in knowing the hyenas that are at the back of me will be steaming in afterwards so that's what you do you go in as a group so you're well aware of the situation now this was right before before weapons come out you'll be on slaughter in it now there was a right where we stepped the road of coming out of there we started to do robberies we took over our reputation group because of my violent attitude all them wanted to earn money I had the pleasure of having a fight that's what I was cloned to do I knew I could fight I bought at the beginning everybody was like that to me as I'm getting older and having all these kids with reputations fight everybody God die where you heard you you've just done is this is that you've done him in seconds now my reputation grew grew and grew so I would go into what he called it go into clubs the dormant then would want to have it I would knock the dormant out my friends would do all the rest we would steam clubs around town Manchester then was run by a firm called the quality street they started a union off where all the dormant got together and if one dormant had a problem they all had a problem yeah so then we they wanted to come down to show us what they're capable of they come to Manchester coming to Salford is stupid if you're in a problem in Salford in them days and you're from another area you stood out took that how big you are whatever and you coming and you had a bit of a problem everybody in that pool would attack you makes no odds even the women the old women the old men would be hitting you with bottles it was a no go area people Salford in them days now we was in there when Prince Charles was getting married the day of Prince Charles getting married five or six big heavyweights part of the firm that was connected that wanted to teach us because there had been many around Manchester come down they come in said there were six of them five stood at the bar one come over to where we was me and Massey Matkar whoever Rob May they come over to us and said one guy come over he said I'm sick and tired what are you doing you're messing about so a kid called Matkar told him to f off the f word fuck you this is what our generation is it don't matter what these other firms are capable of f you don't matter what the police are capable of f you the system then this guy parted Matkar we then attacked the five big guys at the bar the guy who did the parting ran off Massey and his firm chased after him beating him up picking him up boss more or less the police come to done the policing I'm in the pub battling they get charged with a section 18 and attempted murder Massey get they all get a guilty the day of the trial they're all going not guilty obviously the day of the trial the wife brings to the husband in and says I have to dress this husband every day because of these bastards blah blah blah they get a guilty they get five years because they're only young kids five years in them days was harsh I was 21 round about Massey Navi and Matkar in Scotland he was round about 18-19 yeah with the reputation of the fight their criminals Massey was one of the most criminal minded kids he would want to meet he's not fighting his stature but his game he was attacked five or six screws by himself he's like a Jimmy Boyle exactly the same he's fearless now when but he had his firm around him he had a firm of hyenas that was the worst on the planet now when they got the five years to dress my husband Massey who got the five years while he was doing the five years he appealed then this guy who was in the wheelchair four months after he made a film because he was a martial art expert doing kung fu in the film Massey gets the tape takes the tape to court and says this is the man that has to be dressed every morning jumping in the air four foot kicking somebody in the air how can that be? so Massey won his appeal then when Massey come out they all clipped together again then Massey had a new what used to happen now I've always been involved with United Manchester United going away fighting more or less fighting the Bulls now if I was to explain in the 70s what used to happen is you used to be able to pay to get in football grounds so when United being the biggest support in club in the world don't know about Glasgow arrangers but being the biggest support in club they used to take 20,000 plus to have the away game now 90% of the people you talk about being a hurricane they just think getting another fan putting his hair down and volleying him in the head to re-screaming for his mother whatever now it wasn't about that if people like me used to see it as a graft where they had football specials used to be 1500 on a football special all that week would be in the papers around them surrounding areas United's Barmy Army are coming to town they're going to let the place whatever we used to go there during the week source out where the jewellery shops are where it's worth jumping over the counter looking for places with money so when the football special pulls up you'll have 6000 Hurricanes from the surrounding areas then these United fans will think 1500 is not good enough they'll wait for 3 more specials to come even the Cottonies used to bring so many football specials they could bring 5 specials then when they're out attacking the other 6000 attacking 6000 or 7000 we will be over the counters and you'll be doing jewellery shops if you like to go abroad we've done a jewellery shop in Amsterdam worth for 2 million quid it was big news then because that would have been about 20 million but that would have been between 200 people everyone was there just to do the jewellery shops that's what you weren't looking for now the Scousers was always in Europe in the European court they used to go over with Visa cards and it's what he called it's what you call Kiting now if you get a bent Visa card and you're going to shop buy something with it now in them days if your signature matches on the Visa card do no one will let you have whatever now so you put in breakthrough aid it sets off the other person's signature you could put your own signature on the Visa card and by in this concept they would only allow you to spend to buy something for £20 in Europe if you've got a passport with the same name obviously they would allow you to spend £400 £600 because you've got proof of identity now you could get year passports in them days so we used to send people in passport take a little picture of yourself put it on that so we massy come out so we started to hit Europe doing the Kiting now we was at first massy went over with three or four lads on one occasion 20 Salford lads went over there to Europe first of all we hit Brussels within two hours then you would also go over to do sneaks now Brussels and Holland all over Europe was very trustworthy now you would go in the shops, the jewellery shops all the ad was curtains so you would have one of your lads chat to the owner and you would be able to like try and snide the gold watches over here the gold in them days was all nine carat over in England the silver all watches were the little gold in the middle over there you had 18 carat gold which was unheard of in England so as I was in Brussels and they had in the carat ice skates of steel the 18 carat gold the owner come over whacked, knocked him out we realised the shop is ours so we emptied it 200 grams worth of gold then we decided it wasn't part of the EU then if you went from one country to the next the police then couldn't go into that country so we went into Holland we go into Holland we all got the suitcases come out in all the small suitcases with wheels they come out we all had the best of clothing even the fashion a cost t-shirts you couldn't get in England we all got advanced in clothing fashion so then we used to just go over there for the fashion now we've got 200 grams worth of gold we've got thousands of pounds worth of clothing the best of fashion we then started to hit the bars and when we were in the bars what happened was everyone the girls over there you could buy them little bottles of champagne that was their black and white suitcases if you were buying them bottles of champagne so one of the kids said there's my card, American Express just come out, there's my card American Express I'll pay for everyone's as they're enjoying themselves I look behind the bar there's a cashpot so how much have you earned in the day I'm a graftivist there's a cashpot I'm going to try and graft it got off the doorman went out come back with a gun because they knew that the massive firm was all capable pulled the gun on the massive firm yet again there was already the doorman had an onslaught had the gun took off and legged off that was the first time one of them then we went into Germany from Holland we knew the Dutch are now on our cases in Belgium, France and Holland we go into Germany I decided to send the stuff home by post so instead of taking it through the customs I sent everything home by post my friends house whatever my girlfriend's house they all decided to kamikaze it through it now there's a kit called say Asfield a kit called Asfield on the train to where we're going to the boat or even on the boat before we hit customs he went to the toilet in his suitcase he also even the gun we took off the doorman was in his suitcase and when he was walking through the customs he's like is anyone going to search me as loud as he can but they just let him go on the train back to London he knew he fainted when he was all demanding the stuff back but that's how it was because every time you've got gear money in your trousers you're always trying to think away how to get it home what do you call it in years to come when people were doing drugs they started to send drugs on but I was one of the first to realise that was the method to send it back but the English police knew what we did the English police knew that during shootings they knew the strength of what we was about they put the biggest operation on us the English know do you think you were making too much noise too young yeah it was more less down to what do you call it more the hated master now the master grew up more than anybody else because he was like organiser very very very coming on minded more or less because of what he did when he threw the guy out of bus and they beat the police they knew what this firm was about the McDonald brothers they used to do they used to do robberies the first ones to pull them out on robberies there was a game as they come when they was even one or two times when they was put on remandies in them days the wall was only half mass and nowadays if you see a strange way wall they have a bubble over it in them days it was half mass we used to put ladders because we never lived too far away from strange ways at the back of strange ways where there's a small wall up against the wall rope at the top of the ladder so we could go over breaking strange ways going over to the windows pass the weed over and then go back to go back to the rope over now on one occasion mass he decided to escape it was on remand doing petrol he decided to escape the kids went over passed him a saw he sawed the bars got off him and the cacoon navi went to the rope and then he decided to go on the roof and protest about spending too long on the remand now that's what mass he was about the half killed it when he came down he even had somebody to go over the wall and he even tried to escape on christmas eve very unlucky again what was it like being a football hooligan did you enjoy that period not only did it of course i had 2 sets of friends to the hooligans now the lads are hooligans why they are hooligans you could just have normal 9 to 5 lads they will have a 9 to 5 job they dress the part they look the part if you was to turn around and say that person is a gangster and that person is a hooligan 90% will say the way the gansers address their hooligans and the way the hooligans address will say their gansters because they are all designed up they are all like professionals at violence where even one time where i think we was playing everton once and were walking down the road this is in a book one of the everton hooligans got a book and he said we were playing manchester and this is his words he said we were playing manchester united he said normally when people come to live a pool he said when we run at him they run off he said now on this occasion this is his words he said we were running at this firm of united fans and he said he wasn't budging he said we were getting closer he said he was thinking what's this about how come they're not getting off he said then he came up close to us he said he steamed us he said the next thing he's knocked out he said then he found out one of the united fans told him don't worry the kid who knocked you out knocks everybody out and that's why we become more professional in violence with them they would do the gangsters but they wouldn't go to the next level they would do them on a night out but the gangsters would go through the front doors who's the toughest phone you came up against oh god you couldn't that one you could go back to the earlier days where you could go against Newcastle and say that the fencing's there separated by fencing one Jardie I don't know it's a sign of bravery I don't know one Jardie would get on the fence and jump over into all the united fans knowing he's going to take a kick in they was fearless they was fearless but then you would have Lee's fans now a Lee's fan have been arrested and more or less done in a couple of times and with Lee's fans if they got a charge sheet since Manchester United they would pin it on the wall proudly that I've been charged fighting Manchester United fans because they hated us more than anyone why is that hatred so strong between Lee's and Manu well because of the numbers because of the numbers United hate Liverpool more than anyone now I used to think it's down to the violence now when I say United hate Liverpool I mean I'm not just talking about on the football field you couldn't, Liverpool wouldn't come into Manchester in the early 70s in the 70s or early 80s because they would be done in it would be vice versa Manchester couldn't go into Liverpool they wouldn't mix scousers and monks in prison I was in a prison called Lindow not one scouser was in there and there was that riot but the people was running about looking for scousers not only was it running about on the riot looking for nonces they was running about looking for scousers and that was the hatred and what it all becomes about and I don't know if people don't know this it comes from 200 years ago or 150 years ago when Manchester was mailed by Liverpool we had to buy the cotton off him so Manchester got 20,000 navvies to build the Manchester ship canal they built the Manchester ship canal at the end of the ship canal is Salford now that's where my ancestors come from because they turned the 20,000 navvies to Salford and a bit of shit all on the planet now that's why Salford has got a lot of his roughness we've got something ready we've got a lot of Irish community what age did you first go to the adult prison? well I was in the adult prison when I was 12 I got put in that what? when they had to fight in the reform school with the girl they didn't know what to do with me they can't just send me to another reform school and send that problem on because I was in a special unit so they couldn't keep me in this special unit so they would know you're the special unit in the north so they didn't know what to do with me so they sent me to what do you call it? Rizgar I was only small so I was in Rizgar I've never forgot it now when you land in prison the second day in there your night after being in the cells you go and see the doctor because I was like that you see the doctor you're in a room with all the adults so I was in there and everyone all the big cons was laughing to see me at such a young age so one of them went like that he said come over here sit on my knee and earn yourself a Mars Bar now everyone started laughing because it wasn't like it is now I was thinking where is that joke earn yourself a Mars Bar for years I couldn't figure out I know he was messing about what the joke was when did you get your first sentence as an adult what age? I got my first sentence as an adult when we did your work did you call it? no they did us for doing the national clearing banks and when we did them because we was going over with visa cars I got four years at first I got eight years which was harsh but then the next day I was back to court and dropped it to four best feeling I have had in my life but Massey got six years I got four years I was like 30 soon I was in other papers English biggest operation when I went into court they even said the prosecution this man is the tip of the iceberg it was the first time we went over there you couldn't think it where did you do your four? when now when I was having problems with the quality screen was that Jimmy? Jimmy was the boss he wasn't the one I was having problems with they were on a stepper boat in Vinnie Scarborough on another level they wanted bowing in front of but all their firms lower where they all started to do a union they was all connected now there was a couple of clubs around town because when Massey got put away for again when Prince Charles was getting married when he was doing his five years everyone started to come for me so I knew it had a problem I was walking towards the pub with my girlfriend outside the pub there was a Rolls Royce soft top Rolls Royce big guys all surrounding it starting all pointing at me she turned around the missus and said Rono's already gone and that's when he heard the blast where I felt the pallics at the bottom of my legs that was the first person to be shot then every club after that every club I went in the doorman used to say to me Paul please do yourself a favour get out as fast as you can I was only young in my early 20s when I used to get out for the fireworks I see casts spin up so then the guy who more or less was running this firm I was after us I went out to one of the doorman and I saw it out with him he was doing the protection work arcade he said go down to the arcade on the Sunday and we'll have a chat and we'll finish the problem off so I'm thinking I'll go to the arcade get myself a good hiding then I'll be able to go to the clubs without cars pulling up and that will be the end of it so I went to the arcade and this guy where are we having it he stood up but I'm not waiting so they give him the onslaught knocked him out asking anyone else so that more resting so then I knew we had a problem put a van for a couple of their clubs shot a couple of doors off with a shotgun one of the most exciting things I've ever did in my life we still had a bit of a problem with him now we took over this this yard what was connected to them I then knew got myself another shotgun you couldn't get handguns in them days then to get a shotgun you had to see loads of people knew nothing possible to get older but I had a shotgun mentally I knew that I most of the time in my career had no sense so why not begin it young I was ready I surrendered to myself what was going to become of me so I was fearless nobody knew what a ballet was nobody knew what clubs was there was nothing to say nobody knew nothing to say in the police station no suitors what the police used to do was give you a good hiding and verbally you confess to whatever when you've not even seen the interview room that's how corrupt the place was so anyway I was there ready to shine ready to my days come waiting for this thing to whack whoever one out but Matthew went to see the main kids the main kids soon he said this lunatics right there saw it out then it half saw it out with Jimmy Swords when I had a meeting with Jimmy Swords he said well we know you're a loose cannon blah blah blah we're going to give you the VIP treatment at certain clubs but do as a favor stay out with these other clubs with John Swars I could have had a following and we were so when I first landed in prison Jimmy Swords got me a job on reception so he looked after me so that was it sorted then was that it smoothed over so what did you do when you came out well when I come out I was 30 years of age when I when I was in in the system because I've always been into my fitness because I was naturally stuck here and they say big arms or whatever they do weights I've never lifted more than 40 in my life yeah because my dad was a bit Irish guy yeah I mean big 62 inch chess the old fashioned armchair the government's armchair was a perfect fit for his cult massive so anyway so all I had to do was keep my fitness up to get a good physique so every prison I had more has been in even at old age I've always had a gym artist job thousands of bird peace thousands of set ups press ups unbelievable now I even think I can break the world record on certain things set ups and that so when I was in Lindo I had a gym artist job when I put lines on the outside field which was locked the outside football field which was locked now I had my mrs come up full tennis balls over with weed in them again one of the first to fall over the fence then when they opened up the fields to walk back into the prison I was give it something to sell out I was on like a thousand pound of weed not 1500 it's a seven grand now so I come out to big money when I come out Massey also come out now Massey spent most of his 20's in the system so mentally Massey they say the system keeps you young yeah Massey come out with a mentality of a 20 year old he started to hang about with a young firm from Otso Solford have many areas and one area doesn't click with the other area it's professed but that's what happens weed has just come out cannabis people started to sell it all around Solford he used Massey to bring firms into our area he's got himself a new young click people in my area are crying to me about this firm from Otso coming in we get say right we'll meet him on the Sunday night in the pub they come down we had 120 lads there waiting 120 Budweiser's getting thrown at the door one of the most aggressive battles you've seen half of them got off two lads got shot the day after but that's when our far out begun with me and this other firm say Paul Massey would never fall punches at Massey not out of fear I feared no one but out of friendship we had that sort of click through our lives but his firm despised me he was a lot younger but still at any age I wasn't really so bad you've picked somebody that's reaching 30 years of age when I got put away just before 27 and I knew I was coming out when I was 30 I was thinking to myself God my life's over but you don't realise how young 30 is so that's madness about it how was that when it started to tear apart with you and Massey were you just thinking fuck it just got on with it I was upsetting you the way things were going no because I was professional we were both professionals of violence you me even these young kids now that are going about now we opened the door for society now our society now know how to play the game in fact 100 times better than us 100 times better than us but we was the first and we knew what we were capable of I had no faith that's about anybody I've accepted that I could go on the battlefield get suck out it's what you accept as a young kid I used to always dream about going the same way as John Wayne did that's what you accept you accept the battlefield you accept being locked up in a cell being able to do your burpees being able to do your step ups you accept that you get through it so you have no faith that's about violence now when these young kids who are just learning that they can't put a hold that on young shoulders now like I said I'm a frontrunner now when I see this other firm that will terrorise half the firms in the North West but they never terrorised us because we knew what they were about so I would go in first then may I ain't as good for her when I say I ain't as these are like my best mates I mean Wadikoi Asher who I loved one of my partners six foot two always there with me at one time he said I'm at the side what you're doing at the side of me that's how it was but then you're not when you're talking about a plug fight fifth Wadikoi club fight nobody will put a Budweiser down to work somewhere there that was the most common weapon on the planet was a Budweiser bottle in them days then people brought out the shooters I remember having an argument about the day we done them in a pub in Salford the next day I Wadikoi a couple of shootings a couple of people got legged off either way now the next day I've argued with massive lads these four cars of them I've got a friend in this car I'm standing at the back of the car arguing with massive lads knowing nobody's going to shoot me above the waist because nobody got stuck out they would only get legged off so I'm standing where my legs are not seen my mate got him bottled it to Ovoff they knew because I've got seven brothers six brothers, one half brother they knew that I can film two cars they knew if anything happens to me they have to leave Salford and not only did Massey have a fan club I had a fan club in fact I had the biggest fan club I could pull five of you sound stupid and pathetic and I have done it and so has a lot of other my friends we could pull five hundred mates we could pull two hundred hooey goons and that's in these hooey goons where we sang about in the seventies that looked the part where they said they looked like ganssters all become ganssters and one of them now is worth 30 million quid living in Dubai was there ever a moment in your life when you were in your fifties were you ever happy that you were making money you had a reputation or was it always wanting more always wanting more tons always wanting more graft was there ever any moments I've never been money oriented I've never I've counted money where it's been back aching where you're counting nothing more as 20s with 20s where it hurts my back counting money I've done money through counting machines 90% of I'm telling people stories it's not rarer about the money I've been earning now when more or less when the the race system come out yeah when I had that trouble with Massey Massey's firm was the most feared in the north west yeah they had kids in that firm that being shot above the waist just started to come out the nooners got charged obviously they got found not good for killing somebody they got charged with that a quid like we saw after that murder nobody knows who'd done it people started to forget about getting legged off people started to get shot above the waist yeah so everyone accepts that but now because even the drug scene started to come out people started to sell weed there and everywhere now this firm Massey's firm was that ruthless he even went to a guy that wouldn't sell weed to beat him up that guy wasn't at home there was a wallpaper man putting wallpaper up to kill the wallpaper man that's how barbaric this firm is right so now this is the firm what I'm going against and half the people hated it now I've got a problem with this firm then all of a sudden from the biggest menacing Manchester at one time these club owners saying to me would I bar this firm from nightclubs now if I've got this firm coming to me I'm thinking well why not, why not earn something why not get myself out of the house without the missus going on at me so I can then get out the out to four or five in the morning no problems so that's what I did I started to bar Massey's firm from most nightclubs and that's where the door was the Manchester door was the Manchester door was was everybody against me now one time there's a pub called the Inner Good Oak and this pub called the Inner Good Oak beautiful place and I got asked from a friend to bar Massey's firm from it because they all used to go in with caps on, hoodies on, whatever so they asked me could I this televised all the other customers in there to go to bar and I'll be on fantastic wages so I said like no problem my first night I go down there I'm working for somebody on the thing, yeah getting paid then I go down there there was I'm not gay but there's very handsome kid, 30 inch waist 16 and a half stone on the door there called Graham Boardman right talk unbelievable you'll think he was a professor now when I first landed he goes oh it's a pleasure to me you've heard about your reputation blah blah now I was talked back by his mannerism little did I know this guy is the biggest lunatic on the planet fantastic with the deals beautifully charmed and charmed anyone but this night we got told to buy a massive firm there's another firm in there called the ugly firm skinheads was out in them days they all skinheaded off oh they suited the name the ugly firm because he was all ugly I could have been part of it so what happened was it ended up this is another part of software where everybody hates me he was all leaving the place one stopped and said Doyle what are you doing on here now I'm not going to argue with anyone I know what's going to come so I onslaughted him these friends come running back in as I'm onslaughting him I'm looking at Graham and another kid got on the loan there massacring these other 10 15 lads just going through him like a knife into a bottle hot knife into a bottle so many ran off they come back and I'm thinking wow I'm expecting these two kids that spoke like gays nothing dense gays but spoke like gays to be done in I was worried for them but they massacred them left bodies all over the car park they've come back and you're hurt Paul said no is any more of this scum in here then everybody in the pub started pointing the finger at me thinking I put all these kids in the corner then the next day massacres firm heard what happened to this ugly firm the ugly firm is a part of the area there from 2040 16 valve golfs that's what everyone used to Cosworths used to drive and all the gangsters pulled on the car park massacres comes up and says Diaries shouldn't be borrowing us from this place your friend he's just giving me a door to get out of so I said what master I said I'm glad you said I'm a friend I said because you should be saying to me if you're a friend we'll drink somewhere else and let you earn money in peace I said that's what you should be saying to me he said yeah but your boss who's in primary shouldn't be he's no friend of mine I've got another kid with me that wants him a one to one for any grand right so I turn around this kid what he wants a one to one with is a big six foot four kid more as a straight member he's got a security firm just got a security firm with ganada for 250 grand right a contact with ganada and could have a proper reading right but Queensborough is yeah so I said look I can't speak for this kid so he turned around and said right he said there will stay out of here for you but we're not staying out of here for your boss more or less I won't say his name so anyway he said will you tell him this kid wants him a fight the six foot four kid come and he went to me said what do you think you should do so I said well you can't win you said what do you mean you can't I can't win he said I'll fight the land he's a big powerful lad I'm boxer you said you can't win I said the kid don't want you to fight very well known Manchester family I said the kid don't want you to fight I said he will throw punches at you for 20 seconds which I would do the same after 20 seconds he would know you're capable of taking these punches it would then it will start eyeballing that way you go for the eyes I said if that doesn't work he'll float you he'll he'll grip you up he'll bite your vein out your neck I said and if that doesn't work his friends that are there watching the fight will pull out the weapons he said in the early days it will be a knife but now they'll be pulling out them he said no doubt we will pull out them he said we'll be there when you're going to have World War 3 he said is it worth it over the inner good old he said because you've got a contract with Gnader don't set the contract with Gnader you forget about masses for him you're not going to win so then he said yeah you're right give it not cowardice he would have fought the lad but he just couldn't have won then he said yeah you're right so that's when me and Graham this kid called Graham Baldwin become partners we took over the security firm and then the next thing that happened then I realized how much of a psychopath he was which to everyone now we've got a security firm where everybody wants us on the doors all the time yeah so we started to write to say one occasion with some Graham was on the door with somebody it's the double of me yeah he was on the door there this was on a Thursday night night club seven lads come down and the place was then Graham said you're not coming in you've had too much to drink so the kids said he said what he said I said you've had too much to drink so the kids said look he said I used to be a doorman and one thing I never did was growl because if I growl now before he could finish the statement off he was traumatized all seven was putting a coma besides one girl yeah we was in the next day we were shy with seven section 18s because these was all in a bad way but then we had to go on the ID parade none of them would turn up for the ID parade only the girl we had that information anyway and in them days we could you could pick your ID parade so I could have seven brothers on my ID parade you was allowed to do that now on this occasion what we did we got her next door neighbor on the ID parade just to show her we know where she lived and obviously we never got paid out so that's Graham guy who is he you think he's a big fruity guy big handsome guy not going to back you up but he ends up a massive part of your life he's got a massive part of my life in fact he's given me nightmares a million percent no not my nightmares as in the way you would expect you've got an older story to understand the nightmares what he's given me now I am a a Christian dayard Christian in new reform schools Catholic reform schools don't forget we're going back to the Victorian era in these reform schools you had to go to church every morning you did your bed make your bed you went for breakfast then you went for church it was drummed in here right so I'm a dayard Catholic I believe in the power of the universe now because I went to church I think I'm like surrounded when I used to knock people out and I used to think to myself why am I not receiving this why am I not getting this now when I met Graham when I met Graham we went to a different path we had the gang warfare with Massey now Graham started to get a very very big reputation even Desi Noon turned around and said to one of his friends you would fight Paul Doyle because all you're going to do is get knocked out he said you fight Graham you're just going to be calm you don't know what's coming when I said somebody would bite a vein out of somebody's neck Graham would bite a vein out of somebody's neck he would go through six or seven lads like I said like a knife through a bottle his reputation is unbelievable because he was a good looking lad nobody had fair facts to follow him and with the way he spoke we were together we were going on meetings to have a chat with other criminals everyone would think he's the brains and I'm the brawn but he wasn't I'm the sweet wise kid and he's the brawn all I had to do was attack move to one side I didn't even have to help him out he was that vicious it was untrue he would have killed Lenny McLean he would have done Lenny McLean he knew every sort of marshal he was the one that told me one time we used to have battles within the Good Hope against the rugby players now one time he showed me how to do the front move so for a month instead of doing the way I punch I was just practicing the front move where you go down bang so then for a month he's shown it this would be player he started one night 6 foot 4 standing in front and said to me I was arguing with another rugby player tapped me on the shoulder he said don't be arguing with me argue with me so look at that he's a big pal floating him down gasping for breath now the Hope Hospital was 300 yards away we had to put him in the back of the car check him's hospital hospital would have been 2 miles away he would have been dead he had to put the tube at the back of the floor to keep him alive and that's how dangerous that move is now Graeme showed me that and he had moves after moves after moves but it was so psychotic it was on screen now because we had problems with massive firm and all the other stuff at the same time the world blossomed on ease and cannabis sniff wasn't really out the cocaine wasn't really out half the planet was cannabis and ease and the European drug laws knew it had a problem and the problem was we were connected and we used to get our stuff for the people I was in the cruise schools with scousers that I've spent time with in the reform schools 60% 80% of the lads in the reform schools were scousers they had the same genetics as us so when we come out we still had a bond with them so we got our cannabis from them we was lucky but the white community couldn't go to these places like Mosside or Liverpool because they would have the money and they would be taxed so the European drug laws knew there was a problem to get their stuff sold to the white community so they got everybody with a reputation to sell shop around say areas, Manchester, Salford or whatever to start selling so because we had a warfare on the door walls with no enough everyone our reputation blossomed more so everybody knew for years what I was about all of a sudden people understand what Graham was about he was a psychopath so then we went over to we got called over after collecting a bit of the debt to see a guy we had the business class can't get to Amsterdam business class five-star hotels are staying we had everything paid for us to meet this guy now all I had around of about twenty key of cannabis sold every week so all I wanted was to be able to buy twenty key of cannabis but anyway we go over there met this guy six foot four straight away he had the same sort of image as Graham at the time a good looking guy Swive Italian suit we met him in the hotel because of the way Graham was the way he spoke he was sucking by that because of the way I look I mad the reputation what I had that was fearless reputation he was also talking for that Graham wouldn't go to the next level I was more or less thrilled to go to that level just like a lot of other people went through what I went through now when we met him that night got us in the five-star hotel we had a little dream with him he said what I'm going to take you on a meeting at night time I went on a meeting at night time with our older man just over three Graham's still in his late twenties no I've gone over there and he's saying look we need you he was saying the boss we need you to sell the shop about England he said I've got a slot a warehouse and stuff too in Manchester but we haven't really got anyone to sell it he said we need you to sell the shop around Manchester not only will we feed you we'll feed our own friends around the north so I'm thinking like yeah we'll blossom on that he took us to meet the Dutch guys he said this is Paul Graham who's going to collect in the debt for 200 grand for him Paul Graham who collected the debt for us he said Paul knows all the different food he was building it up on a pedestal I watched what he gave he said Paul can sell our stuff for us he said you will receive it the slot blah blah blah now we got off in two tons of cannabis I only watched what he gave and something like two tons of whiskey yeah exactly I nearly burst out laughing with Matisse so I'm thinking god why the step Timson so I said look I want to tell the boss can I have a word with you outside the pub I said look I can't sell this I want you to win again he said don't worry could you get any of that cheap now if you also get a key of cannabis before Skunk come out cannabis is half the hard stuff if you get a key of cannabis you'll be lucky to make £20 on it but in the end days you could make £300 on it so you'll get £300 to £200 cheaper right because they're getting they're getting half of it laid on right from the Yugoslavia whatever the Moroccans now this guy also had a problem with the Moroccans so anyway but on this deal we agreed that we would receive all the cannabis yeah and all the whiz but the whiz got sent to his shop where people was already set up on it so we received the cannabis now later that night after we've made a deal more or less the champagne come out because it was on fortunes this one night he spent about £160,000 Gildus which is a £41 in the pound then Gildus but still massive amount of money celebrating right Christmas is coming for him God knows what he was earning now he turned around this smart guy who's slick as slick as anything he said to me he said Paul he said we know everything about you we know everything about Graham he said but we like that walks late he said them a walk cooking will die so I'm thinking what's this about them a walk cooking a day because I'm not a drinker this night I was drinking it gets good of our machinist normally I don't talk it gets good of our machinist so I gave it the alpachino bit and said look I'm not scared of dying but I don't walk cooking and he goes he said yeah I'm like you Paul he said I'm not scared of dying but the last but there's a million ways to die I'm thinking what's this about so he showed me then something that was unbelievable he showed me a picture what a head on a plate a head on a plate with an apple in its mouth the head you couldn't even tell it was a head no eyes no ears no lips and the apple you said you'll end up like a pig I'm thinking fucking out but I was thinking in my head who's give this guy this picture where did he get this picture from could it was like one of them you know pictures that come out straight away it was one I think who's give this guy this picture not realising he saw this picture himself it's one of his victims yeah so now I'm thinking yeah but I'm a grafter who cares right but I had a funny feeling in my head and I was saying look this sounds weird in order Graham but Graham was thinking about the power notes now I was thinking at the time I'm in my 30's thinking it's going to this life now I've stepped in to the premiership this is the premiership forget everything else this is more or less what I set my career out to be where I want to be besides the head I'm not thinking about I'm thinking now I can get away from the gun wars all I can do now is feed everyone be everyone's mate be the man at the top drive nice cars because in them days only criminals drove nice cars you didn't have to hide anything like everyone knew always was if somebody said to went to the police and said Paul Doyle is selling drugs the police will say don't we think we know that how can we get him tell me how we can get him the police are honours I had that many operations on me they were bumping into each others I'm thinking this is the way out so when I come back to England to start work on the two tonne of cannabis I had to ended up with about 400k myself to sell to friends all the rest went out to the bosses friends all around the north right and so did the whiz he did the whole whiz so then after getting used to say like you've got to go out of town phone box we used to call the office so we used to go to out of town phone box give them a one bell they'll phone back and you have a chat so then he'll take you around and say get over here as fast as you can before he even started talking saying everything's gone we're just waiting for the money to come in everything was laid on in them days you know what I mean by laid on on tech so in them days everything was laid on so you'll give them like 10 days to pay then you'll send the money out then the next shipment will be coming in within 14 days so it's every two weeks it carries on so anyway he said come over here so I'm thinking it must be to talk about the money blah blah blah so then we've gone over met him and he said don't come by playing drive over so we drove over to see the boss we'd get there what he called a spanner leech give us a spanner leech so I'm thinking God what's this about this is what I've dreamt about getting away from that shutting the door on that and just carry on earning money what it's about it's not about the violence no more I was thinking he said like I'm having a meeting with some Moroccans and he said these Moroccans I've got a problem with something happening I ain't no finding out I'm off on a million and a half quid that's why he's doing so well he's spending a million and a half quid most of it worth seven million now so I went to I was in the back of the car all spanned up Graham had a spanner but he's never even the only thing Graham could do with his spanner is look at himself if it's shiny he wouldn't think he's a failure so anyway so I'm in the back of the fire thinking now am I ever going to get away from this right ill with talking to myself inside my head got it then I have to upset in my head in that back of the car it is what it is I am what I am and it doesn't matter about am most I'll be accepted that through my life I'm never going to be away from it so then I've accepted that yet again I could be took out live censors so we go on the meeting six or seven Moroccans there he's shying all about the whip arguments each way a guy big powerful guy kept an eye bar in there the argument got vicious the big powerful guy thing there plugged shot two of them out of anoneness more or less because I knew the door wasn't going to get shot on violence right so I took it out I took it to Moroccans I had to get a taxi to Belgium then a train to France back over here and Graham and we got another lad a boxer bodyguarding him Graham started bodyguarding the boss right now it's on top proper but Graham's fearless the bodyguard we sent over at the Irish Lad wasn't shy so then the next thing is we've realised this guy the picture what he's shown me is one of his victims is what he's just like a psychopath where Graham's a psychopath on violence this guy's a psychopath on that these victims never get the privilege of a bullet the drilled it's like where we've been cloned for the battlefield but what he gets up to is not in the real book worse than the sexual abuse you burn your testicles off they'll cut your lips off to pull your teeth out they won't allow you to die when you start getting cut you'll be thinking to yourself now I would most probably die of a heart attack because I wouldn't know what was coming but you would think to yourself thank god because I most probably won't have long they don't spare a bullet then he was what he called it Graham and the other lad was over there all the time now what happened was me and the world champion box at the time and another lad a friend of mine we was all pulled in on a murder charge over here we never did it but we was pulled in on it right? before the trial began we had our charges dropped they found the proper killer now I went over to talk about what's being spent blah blah blah while my two partners Graham and the Irish kid was over there they started to all get a reputation Holland more so the boss how vicious and what they're capable of with other firms so everyone started to come to them this guy was known about his firm behind himself so he's posted on 36 murders this guy alright but this is our firm behind him he was cloning them to do whatever and these would do whatever now on one occasion there was a clumbian guy a clumbian guy and he he was old the son of a clumbian cartel this son is like his dad most will be on another level but he's most will be a spoilt brat he's not capable of nothing so he goes to the boss and say look I'm all two million builders the boss is on said like we'll collect the debt for half price the next thing is Graham comes back to England said I have to give him so much out the boss's money because what him and the boss done detaches some poor guy to death for the two million builders yeah I go over there now I know what this guy's about I go over and he's talking about there's a guy a jordy kid who owes him £300,000 on this night out like I don't drink so I'm always on the ball yeah so he's sniffing whatever and he's talking now what he's going to do to the jordy kid who's not paid the £300,000 how he's going to cut his lips off this is what I said where it's all come from this night how he's going to cut his lips off to burn his testicles off the whole scenario so then he said the next day I'm thinking thank god I'm going home right and I don't have I know the jordy kid one of the typical jodies from the 80s who's got tattoos on his face all that sort of crap so the next thing is he said Paul you're going you're going home today this is on the Sunday so I said yeah he said do you want a favour when our car drops you off right drops us off at the airport get the jordy kid and bring him to the car so I'm thinking god I've got to send this jordy kid to the worst they're deaf on the planet yeah so the jordy kid comes to just dial it happy as the day is long so he said get back on the plane and go because if you stay here you're going he said going gone he said I don't know what you mean I said look do I have to spell it out you're gone never should be seen again your mother's not even going to bury you right so then you realise got back on the plane I come home I was just going to pretend he never got off the plane I come home then I get a phone call and he said right get to the office out of town phone box the boss speaks to me you grassy bastard so I said what do you mean a grassy bastard he said you told the jordy kid that he was going so then I knew I then told him I said look I'm not capable of what you're I don't mind doing whatever and somebody going on the battlefield it's a battle they accept that because on our level you would accept that whatever I said but to go that way I said you would give me nightmares forever I said that I'm not capable of that it ain't me right so after he spat he's done me out a bit so we have to accept it now Graham was back over there then with the other kid the other kid really I was kid come over here to do the jordy anyway right he ended up going the jordy right for not he ended up dying anyway right then I'm over there so I get for thinking because of the argument I've got spammed up thinking half ready that the boss is going to go if he makes one long move or whatever now that night the people were with are not on coof the businessmen from England so one of them would to open a warehouse will take six months he'll go in the bank he's got to sit with a banker he's got to open a a business company they're all suede the proper businessman get paid well so then well on and I out yet again I'm sober right and I don't do the blast my generation think it's non-sifying to go with it's like I'm fine to have to pay for it yeah so at the end of the night everyone's all them a bit drunk on this knife decide to go to a prostitute a brothel we're going this brothel a ten out of ten brothel big gorgeous women there but there's a screen that's showing brazilian models on the catwalk right in bikinis so I'm chilling with my diet coke just watching the models waiting for them to finish doing what they were doing all my friends because I'm driving everyone because I'm the only one that's sober so the next thing that bird comes see it's next to me I said to the career buyers drink look I'm happy being here by myself go away another bird comes go away the next thing another bird comes it does a favour air for off so then the two doormen come the two doormen come with the boss one big potato headed guy comes the boss is right he said what are you doing telling my women to left off so I said look I said I'm just enjoying a diet coke what I've paid too much for I said just think I just want to be left alone I'm waiting for my mates to finish doing what they're doing then I'll go he said no you go now because you're thinking I said I'm not going anywhere mate the potato head stood forward pulled the spanner out do you want to go do you want to go now right the boss runs out naked grain runs out right well I didn't know he was with you so the boss slaps the bird don't bother him again or anyway long story short I go on the next day the boss then phones me up and says why did you have the gun so I said what do you mean why did they have the gun I said the orange it was dangerous in them days I said I've shot two Moroccans it can happen to me anytime I said you know what orange like he said no you had that gun for me I said I didn't I'm not going all up to anything yeah I said I didn't have the your paranoia you said no you had that gun for me so we started to argue a little bit yeah but he was right but I'm not at meeting it yeah Graham comes back then the next thing the boss gets arrested for all the the stuff what was going on people getting shot every other week people getting killed he was arrested for all the drugs what was sent over now the week before he got arrested he had two ton of cannabis come over and two ton always like always he gives everything out to his customers and I sell me own yeah so then he's locked up now over in Amsterdam in them days they used to bag you up so you could be stood at a bar the police are coming put a bag over your head you don't even know it's the police I think they played that game tell you to the highest the biggest highest police station going you don't even see a switch yourself for a month nothing it's bad about it like they did in this country years ago then what happened then is he's wanting in this country for two murders the English didn't even want him right now if I was away in Holland and I got done for shoplifting they would bring me back here and fall me in jail for some reason they didn't want him and that's when I knew he could have been a pharma or he made a deal with the police so then when he come out he asked him what country he wants to go to he went to Ireland he went to Ireland he fall me up he said have you got my money because of the cannabis I was selling so I said yeah he said how much have you got I said I've got like two and a half hundred thousand could have been a bit more I don't know he said no Paul you've got like two and a half mil three mil so I said what are you talking about he said the whiz now the whiz was laid on to him and the ugus swaths so I said I don't know for the whiz you give it to your customers he said no could it come through our slaughter what I picked up from he said no you pick the stuff up now he would have been taping me I said are you mad I said I went to name people he said I don't know none of them did they tape all your codes he did yeah he's the most devious midnight so what you swath now one time I would have stood in front of him if he was getting shot at yeah so then he goes like that he told the ugus swaths because they took everything off him he told the ugus swaths we've ripped him so he'll collect all the money from his customers then he would tell the ugus swaths we've lit they've come for us thinking that he's not at it so you're talking about 3 million quid which is like 15 million now maybe more now the ugus swaths the ugus swath mafia is on the phone to me right so we had what he called an argument Graham was more saying see the boss he's the one who's ripped not us and he's saying no he wouldn't have ripped because he's done those favors do you know where like the Colombian guy he had to collect debt for he's most probably done favors like that so he's saying no yous I've had it so the next thing I had me on builder's yard in them days earning good money blah blah blah and I was also I don't mind getting myself there getting involved with the lads so I was working at the builder's yard a car pulled up two big heavy cockneys cause they were so filthly I'm working they thought I was also working your boss they said what do you mean go and get the boss he said we're here to see your boss so he said do he said dial so I thought give me the thing that now I was always I spattered up cause I knew what was coming yeah I knew what was coming cause the arguments have had on the phone so I've come back led one shoulder the other took the watches off of him then ugus swaths washed the hands with us they knew that Salford wasn't a place to step into yeah so then the other guy the boss still having arguments him and Graham now are going at each other yeah him and Graham are going at each other both arguing saying what they're gonna do to each other how they're gonna do it blah blah blah that's not in the real book so the next thing you know is at the same time brought into a nightclub called the temple fine now we've give up the doors not interested there's money to be earned elsewhere right and we're doing well earning like I said my back counting money but I'm a gambler also throwing it on the roulette tables right the next thing is him and Graham are going on at each other how are they gonna kill us both blah blah blah blah because at the same time Graham and the forgot about this Graham there as an argument with a ticket the parking on double yellow lines a traffic warden he was trying to run over the traffic warden the traffic warden jumps on the bonnet it rolls down the road with him 60 miles an hour pulls up he rolls off Graham gets 18 month right so this firm the boss's firm he then brings other people to come out I then surrounding myself with hooligans that look like gangsters that are ready to Budweiser whoever comes through the door look in the parks that everywhere I went I'm standing 80 strong 100 strong before cameras come out when I watch a club when I watch a club and there's a queue outside all the dormant will push the queue back and just allow us to walk straight through we had a run of every club in Manchester we even started to the VIP part in a club called Kells where we was drinking with all the footballers Beckham, Giggs there, Gary Neville and Smycle I've named one of my sons Smycle there's a picture yeah beautiful he's even got blonde there there's a picture of Smycle on Peter Smycle's knee when he was one years of age yeah so we had it boxed off Ned Kelly used to pay us money so we had his daughter's cure at Old Trafford so nothing happens to the players ready totally boxed off the whole of Manchester so anybody outside Manchester knows they couldn't come in to do me so I still strong Graham came out of prison he didn't want to go back it was his first where I was bred into it and there was no fair factor with me there was a fair factor with Graham he hated it did it scare him he couldn't handle it it's most of the main the prison's uncouth he's mad at that big strong man who could fight anybody but being caged up like an animal yeah well his brother was a professor he wasn't cloned for that he was cloned to chatting up women brutalised women he was cloned for the freedom he liked going on walks he liked going to the gym he knew every martial art on the planet but he was psychotic he was a fantastic footballer he was a professional footballer but he beat half his own team up he was playing football he did a bad pass Graham got a grip of your game he was slapping himself he was a lunatic but sixteen and a half stone lunatic now what happened was he come out and he bought into a nightclub called the temple he owed him fourteen hundred ravers earning fantastic money doing the door there was one firm coming bad you're not allowed in so this firm what do you mean we're not allowed in he slapped them all about on the way back to the car five of them stupidly jumped in now they was found in bushes one of them had the cheekbone bit out the next day the police go through the door it goes through his door and took his bike sample each person has a different bike so they took his bike sample I think it was how they did it I don't know so he was given bail now just before he attacked the five guys just before he attacked the five guys and he got out of prison he was like a new man when he got out of prison the weekend he got out I gave him three hundred grand with what I've earned while he's away for him yeah so I gave him three hundred quid now normally somebody gives me three hundred quid what he caught I'll be over the moon could have run him or whatever he decided to go off to London he wouldn't get involved in the graft because he was scared of the prison what it was about so he got himself and he wanted to distance himself from me because I was grafting and what I was doing so we got himself a new set of friends one of the friends was a world champion kickboxer and one was he called S.A.S. guy S.A.S. Gerry that's his nickname not his proper name his nickname S.A.S. Gerry so he said come and meet my friends on the other occasion I'd go down and meet him so I had gone down in the middle of the day for somebody to meet his new friends he said we've got a hit on you yeah don't forget his S.A.S. and now there's a hit on me through the boss because of shooting the the Yugoslav big heavies from London whatever and having it with the boss some of the boss's friends so there's a hit on us and also Graham because Graham argues with the boss left right and centre so then oh in the meantime two of the people we've worked with have gone over to Ireland to see the boss they've never been seen again they've gone one even went with the wife gone hopefully they've gone the easy way no then yeah he sounds that stupid sounds like a mad mad fellow it sounds like a Quentin Tarantino thing like fucking like a cowboy what was the feeling when the rest of our dogs when they're all getting tortured coppers are getting shot well to believe it or not the guy in the rest of our dogs which cuts the air off yeah he half looks like this guy in his younger days and that's how mad that is it's one million percent and I could not save in the same younger days when I was in Lindor and I would say to somebody I was walking to this nightclub and somebody started on me and knocked him out then I went to the two dormant knocked the two dormant out then I went in the bar knocked the guy in the bar out people think what planet are you on not knowing I'm more or less connected out to for old punches it's easier to knock a man out in one punch as with the second what happened was I meet the S.A.S. guy in the world champion but so we said we've got a hit on you so I said what do you mean you've got a hit on us he said off the Eugoslavs now everyone thought we did a rip on the boss nobody hardly knew about the Eugoslavs but I thought Graham must have told them so it just went over in my head right so then the S.A.S. guy turned around and said he said look he said the hardest thing I'm having something to eat with a friend he said the hardest thing is when you're torturing somebody is to keep them alive don't let them die of a heart attack you can't go too heavy too first we scratched the bones and I said listen mate I said I'm having my food I said you're putting me off on my dinner what planet are you on then he goes oh I could shoot somebody from 300 yards away I said listen I'll shoot somebody from a yard away big thrill shut up mate let me finish the thing then I said to Graham there six of them I said what planet are they living on so then I didn't like them and Graham knew it but Graham didn't like my friends because there was a Hurigans on coof where he thinks that everybody are on the same level but so what they are going at the same time there's nothing to blossom in a one to one he claims a one to one and capable of it but where everyone that's a Hurigans will go in at the same time and I prefer to be the other one because I know the odds are in my favour so anyway so the next thing is I didn't get on with these friends Graham beat himself like I said the five people are jumping set by samples didn't want to go back to prison and a third factor with prison so the SES guy turns around and said I've got a place where you can go and stay at in Spain now we think the boss can't go to Spain because he still got a problem with the markings he ripped off he was being shot do you remember what he was saying we think we can't go to Spain Graham goes to Spain now the boss we didn't know as started out with the Moroccans but he didn't want a goal straight in for Graham because he wants me as well now they are feeding Graham with women Graham was mad about the women they are saying to me go over there you can Graham you can party this is the guy I don't like the SES guy I said why should I go over there I said I'm a soul food kid I can get soul food girls so what if they've got mum and dad tattooed on the lab I am what I am I prefer to take out a soul food girl in an AI class I won't have to pay for it for the women so then the next thing that happened is they said to me like Paul he said we can get as much cannabis over here as possible through the Moroccans we know the best Moroccan boss of all time that was supplier cartel sort of guy so I turned around and said now which is it now at the time cannabis was going for £1400 he said to me we can get it for £400 this is in Spain now normally everyone started to get it from Spain then normally in the earlier days you got it from Holland and if you was to buy a son you got a son made on if you buy 20k you got 20k laid on so Spain was a new thing so I said £400 now I had a friend who was in Barcelona a Cotney guy Cotney's only care about money a virus everything they want to prove a point and tell what people are capable of Cotney's a different clique they're just worried about the paperwork they forget about the virus unless they're drunk they're all gay but they want the potatoes so the next thing is he's got that it's a certain price so I formed my friend in Barcelona I can get the correct word I can get the word he said you're full of shit he said you can't you can't even buy it in Morocco at that price he said then you've got to get it to Spain get it from Spain get it over to England and he said then it was going to cost you like £900 to a grand in England so I said like so Graham said no Graham it's full of it impossible I've just been told people week passes Graham gets on to me said Paul please meet the SAS guy so I said Graham he said please he's got me a place to stay just have a chat with him right so I say agreed to meet the SAS guy on this graft bringing kind of this back here so I met him outside a famous pub in Hale this pub as tables summer tables in the back of the garden a bench a table he gets a drink then the SAS guy comes in six right next to me I'm thinking God what's this about is he gay why is he somewhere two guys face to face not next to each other near enough rubbing knees so I'm thinking wow you're the last thing to the puzzle you can put the jigsaw together so I said what are you on about we can get the cannabis we can bring it to England what we need you is to sell it you know every firm on the planet all you have to do is make phone calls it's gone so I said I know that your stuff is too cheap or it's a lip I said it ain't gonna happen he said no I know it is the Moroccan cartel guy wants £400 he said but we know what the price is over here he said the price is £1400 he said he wants the £400 on half the shipment he said the other half the shipment he wants £1400 now that puts the stuff in the Moroccans favour so I'm thinking now it could be right this could be happening so he said do you think he's got me now mentally he said do you think you could sell it so I turned around and said at that price I will sell £20 a month not a problem so he said well there you go he said alright what we've done we've got your business class to go over to Spain and we've got your five-star hotel to stay in now when I first met the boss he bought me a business class to go to Spain and a five-star and I'm thinking is this Dave our view right yeah exactly something wasn't right and I looked down on the table and between us don't forget I'm talking mid-90s now a book could be a little boring there but now I looked down there's a wallet between us on this wallet there are the badge so I'm thinking the badge stuck out about so many centimetres whatever so I'm thinking oh my god he's taping me this is the reason we sold cloaks he's taping me now when you're being taped and I've asked him to settle him that I can sell 20 tonne a month yeah so I've walked straight into a conspiracy so I'm thinking Paul get your head together get yourself out of this so then I've gone like that I said do you know Paul Massa so he looks at me confused I've heard of him I said well Paul Massa he's Manchester Mr Big I said right we sold I said he clicks his fingers he sold his lads there and they said they're all bare to stand in front of him I said every copper in the north west wants to arrest him so he could peel up on the wall I'm the man who got Mr Big in Manchester arrested right and to prevent that Paul Massa smokes a 20 pound weed every week I said I'm the same as Massa I don't smoke weed but this is what I said I'm the same as Massa I said I don't smoke a 20 pound weed every week I said have you got a 20 pound weed on you so he goes no I said well good don't bother me then I said forget about your fancies there 20 tonne a 20 tonne there and a drug lord and a car tell what planet are you on don't fall me again I'm off so I realised then I phoned Graham I said to Graham right there now he so he's like when I left him it was 10 o'clock so it's 11 o'clock he explained I said Graham he's a copper in so he goes don't be stupid Paul I said Graham is a copper he's up and trying to take me so he said you're being stupid he knew he wasn't a copper and he wasn't so I said well why would he take me then I said if he what he called if he's taping me and he's not a copper he'd be taping me for the other firm so he said look I'll speak to you in the morning now by the time I was half an hour from home by the time I got home they knew right it will take me minutes to work everything count right so then they realised that I would have sussed all out that he wasn't a copper that he was working for the boss and they wanted not only did they want Graham they wanted me as well I've sussed out not to go over there so they would have know I would have won Graham by getting through the net and that's when ten of them walked in on him and he talked to me to death for three days burned his testicles off like what I said who was it when you heard Graham was killed I could have a brother who I love I love all my brothers yeah and many friends I've had friends I've had a meeting with seven lads I'm the only one who's not being murdered believe it or not Massey was the last one to be murdered out the seven I'm part of the seven by the way and what do you call it now whoever dies on the battlefield you can accept that they've accepted that battlefield they've accepted you live by the sword you go by the sword but the way Graham went like I said before was it in the rulebook now when I said that I have nightmares now when I got a message when they did like Graham they said to me Graham paid his debt and paid the same debt now I have no fear factor of what he called it facing whoever I've survived this one now what he called I'm five years away from seven sir so in my head I've swung the channel to get to this age it was imminent at one time that I was going to go at one time won't even go to the gyms because it was pointless to look good for the slab because it was imminent because I'm going against the organization and every time this organization was on the phone to me they got what I was going to do they got the F word every time it doesn't bother me giving whoever so what but when they I've had nightmares of what Graham last thoughts how you myriad in the made him feel what he did it's just not acceptable doesn't matter what criminal you are to go down to go down them lines it's just not acceptable what happened after that then what happened after that I had to stand strong if I went into hiding if I went into hiding and they'll put a private investigator on me because these kids are worth millions millions and they won't count the money they'll have somebody else hurt in the back counting the money then they would put a private investigator on me as I'm thinking I'm hiding and feeling safe somebody will come and do whatever but I decided that I'm going to stand strong stand surrounded with a firm whoever wants to come I'm ready I'll stand in front when I was say at nighttime if I'm home I used to have a window there I called a sat there yeah I have a window there I used to always have my chair there watch the television watch out for the fast cars the 16 valves in them days pass now normally if you're going through somebody's door you drive round drive round again third time you're in the door you'll be full of beings coming through the door now in your house you couldn't be spanned up because the Dibble would put you away for 5 years so what I used to do in the hallway I had a little bar so as they're running in full of beings they'll be stripping up but what liars will be on them I'll be on them oh yeah beautiful dogs best dogs on the planet so that's your plan survival month just to try and get percentages to survive basically it wasn't it wasn't just the plan it was Jesus it sounds so pathetic it would have also been a kick well one time me and Graham I know I'm going back so many years before Graham left more or less towards the door walls me and Graham was arguing with some of Manchester's finest a couple of the new nuns master and he said we'd be an asset in this club which was the temple yeah he said they gave the door to use so me being I was sick to death of the doors close in and got money on the drugs I didn't have to do the doors now so I'm sitting around and I said you can have the temple I didn't know Graham owned a half the temple but I sit around and said you can have the temple so Graham said oh no no no he said this is right to Desinoona he said no no no he said I give my word he said once I give my word I have to stand by it so there so Desinoona went like that he said look Graham you can be here one minute and you can be gone the next Graham slaps himself do you want to dance out the car you peasants out the car this is Manchester's finest they knew not to get out the car they knew they would have been finished in seconds so they said Paul what are you doing so they said Graham's my partner I have to stand by him I'll stand by him so I said is it worth it Graham for the temple when they went and he sitting around he said he owns half of it so why didn't you not tell him he said why should I have to tell him the peasants this is the way Graham was so anyway on the side tonight I had a couple of lads there in case they come firm door now because I'm half deaf this is why I have a speech problem I'm half deaf I was just reading the paper sat down and as I'm reading the paper a bit of noise looked down see a car spin off in front of the glass doors all the glass doors have been shot through Graham's got a girl in front of him screaming two of the mates that are near enough dying on the floor then I realised we've been shot it was all over by the time I realised now what that's to me even all two of my mates it was a buzz and a half I just had to go and enjoy a meal somewhere it was like wow you're clearly protected pardon you're clearly protected do you believe that you've done many bad things yeah bro this is how stupid it got when I when I say how can I explain it when I surrounded myself and I'm surrounding myself with firms with my own little firm that would go into anyone there were special squads on us I mean squads where the police if I'm sat in the bar the police would come with the cameras get every one of my friends stood against the wall and say like say your name where you live this is on the camera police camera and say the reason why you're with Paul Doyle tonight and that's how it was for so many years I was followed by squads upon squads unit operations upon operations now if I was like to any nightclub in Manchester and I'm sat down even though I don't drink I'll buy shampoos and everything just for the lads even our doors open to me even though I don't drink I'm sat there and there'll be somebody that's making his own path in life and he's thinking the biggest way to get over it is to do me and by the look of him I'm looking over thinking oh god this guy is getting himself into trouble because I'll be just sat there just waiting for him to have a couple more drinks to doze courage by the time he's come half way there'll be 20 Budweiser's on his head he wouldn't have even had to get anywhere near me and that's what I was surrounded with kids that was capable where the proper police squads because they were ex-urigans they used to fight against the police they used to run into to say 20 of us run into 300 lads where there was all professionals in violence they wouldn't go by the Queensburys and some of them would most probably it sounds uncooked with all the stabbings now and it's wrong for me to say this but I was on a survival kit because I'm not, I'm stuck here yeah so when I used to, in them days I was like 17 stone right they saw pictures of me always showing with a big potato so in them days my coach used to fit me here but the sleeves used to go to there right so I used to stand, go to a nightclub whatever and stand at the, my shoulders to the wall right now I used to always have a knife on that finger there yet again you don't have guns a knife on that finger there up in the sleeve always wedged there nobody would know so I would be having a conversation if there was any problems the finger would drop then what do you call it when the finger drop I'll do what's necessary but I didn't have any problems on another occasion most probably one of the bosses firm who's working with the boss the ex-boss when I've got problems with whoever works with him such is life but I'm always eyeballing so this guy he said look he said they have to give you 10 out of 10 what do you mean you have to give me 10 out of 10 now this kid's capable he's firmed up massive reputation they're not shy so I said what do you mean you have to give me 10 out of 10 you're not bowing for anyone you don't bow I said well who does bow will you bow so he said no you're not going against the organisation you're not just going against that boss you're going against the organisation so I said like after him he said what do you call it in my family they normally die genetically of a heart attack before the 6th I said I was in my 40s then I said they haven't got just touching for it I said they haven't got long left anyway I said what they're going to take off in 20 years such is life I was nearly 4 years old I've swam the channel this is why it's the most honest to be at the age I am now could have accepted I was going to go young so he said he patted me down my back and I was on a couple of visa because I don't drink but I used to take ease Dutch courage and it's also in them days you could drive on ease you couldn't drive on beer so he goes there was about 20 of us so he patted me down the back so I thought God you're checking if I'm like going down so I've got wow then 5 minutes passed he said before we've got a club our own club why don't you come to the club don't you leave your lads there don't you so he said we'll take you out no problem I knew I had to do something with him patted me down the back so I got on the phone so one of my brothers so I said Mark I said I've got a flat tire get my wheel brace down here straight away wheel brace yeah so the next thing is he shoots down give me my spanner so then I'm thinking in front of his car before we set off I said I'll sit in the front his three mates are in the back he's going to drive so I put my spanner on my knee and he got fucking out what you're doing what you're doing I said you're fucking out I said you'd think who you work for I'm not going to be ready in this guy in case anything happens now I could have been paranoid after five years I'll still be able to see my family I'm not able to see them at the end of this night if I don't bring this I would have so I'm fucking out you're paranoid so I said shut up and went to my own friends but that was us to prove to them that you're capable that was ready for them so seeing Graham dies you've got a hit out in your life you're surrounding your house how did you survive that all they do still going on I don't know I'm not going to say I'm not going to say where you said something's always protecting me I'm not going to give the last name but the boss is named but he's just been arrested it's been all over the papers and everything the man's a peasant to do what he's done he's not in the real world now he is such a organization such an organization I've accepted that I am going for against the organization I am accepted that I am going to be took out so I think to myself I've accepted that I'm going to go down fighting I will take a bullet and I will what I've done as a young kid going out like John Wayne everyone's zero with a bullet but I'm going to hopefully fight so I don't get my testicles burnt off so I don't become the head on the plate that's how stupid thing is so I have to go down fighting now that's the way I've accepted it but more or less what really it was imminent that I was going imminent that I was going but I now I'm thinking to myself this firm I was capable of putting money on my head to get me done here yeah it would have been so easy but I think this guy has been a farmer always for the last 20 odd years he's made a deal with the police not to do anybody here and the police are more I said to him look you can do whoever you want on the continent what are we doing people in England how long has this been going on for? since 89 what? over 30 years how have you got through that life obviously I hate to tell what do you call it when I've only just come out of the system now when did you end up back in prison you ended up in the jail again did you not? I what happened was there was a police operation on me right? I walked into operation I get 7 years now at the time I don't do cocaine cocaine has just started to come out I don't do cocaine I was doing cannabis and because I'm selling tons I don't have to however in them days when cocaine just came out people were selling two ounces maybe a big deal will sell a nine bar or a kilo what splits into nine bars for nothing I can sell a ton of cannabis and earn a couple hundred thousand pounds yeah so I didn't have to do the cocaine I undercover police officer more or less booked up and everything said to us right sold us a load of gold and said right Paul can you get us some powder very clever right you said powder it could mean whiz could mean cocaine could mean heroin right so I said look I don't do cocaine I thought it meant cocaine I don't do cocaine if you want cannabis I can get you cannabis now because I said that I'm saying I'm a drug dealer so he's got every right to entrap me yeah so then he turns around and said right I'll set the cannabis off you set the cannabis off me then he turns around and he goes like that he said Paul please you know everyone you can get us cocaine I'm forever getting ripped off blah blah blah he said I said look say what I'll do I said there's a telephone number this kid will serve you up the kid gives him an ounce just one ounce yeah he gets the ounce right then he comes back to me he said how much do we owe you I said I don't deal with it I do cannabis not interest you keep the money right now he's little did I know my friend formed me up who served him up with ounce now when I first met him when I first met him this undercover copper I don't like it undercover copper it looks like it undercover copper he come with my brother-in-law he was had a drug problem right and I was looking at my brother-in-law thinking why have you brought undercover copper to me then if the guy's phone went he passed me this phone and said oh I'm speaking to a friend of yours now passed me the phone and gave me noon and was on the other side of the phone so now I'm thinking this kid can't be a copper because Massey and Noonan are not that daft yeah so we had a little chat with Massey Noonan how you doing blah blah blah put the phone down now my guard's down so that's when he started talking about cannabis then I gave him some cannabis and he went thinking so my mate who served him up with the ounce went like that he said oh you know that guy who sent me for the ounce so he said I never sent I gave him a number he's mithing for it he said that you sure he's not a copper he said nah he can't be a copper Massey was on Massey he had Massey on the phone so he said no he keeps bothering mithing me for a key now under half the key the match he can get is seven years over half the key it can go up he wants the cake he wants the icing on the cake so he said he's definitely a copper so I said I'll phone Massey up I said Massey I said did all your mate he said what mate I said the kid he was talking to me through the month on the phone for the Wadiqar who I met that day so he said yeah he said how do you know him he said he ain't a mate of mine he's a mate of yours so what do you mean he's a mate of mine so he said I only met him the night before and he said how you and him are best mates and he's going to put me on the phone to me to say hello so I said oh my god so I'm explaining then yeah this life bastard I was explaining Massey and he was laughing then so then he's going like that he said come down here explain to me how he wanted powder so Massey seeing us this is clever I said no one's to do it he got the other guy yeah to get washing up powder wrap it up like a key of coke pass it in for 32 grand it was going for 32 grand 32 grand is worth the gold they swap it over yeah then in it it was a slushy to note saying don't come to solve for the Manchester selling drugs to school kids the powder you got powder now leave Manchester but it was washing up powder they need the swap they got charged had that charge thrown out now my mitigations you know what mitigations are where you go into court and you admit what you've done my mitigations that I am guilty for passing under cover police officer a telephone number where you can get cocaine for no financial gain and because of the consistent myver of the copper yeah I got seven years for that all the less what was in the they all got five and that's where it was when I got that seven more or less what was getting wiped out even the week before I was getting shot at in the car by the bosses firm the money car another firm because I was having that much myver in them games yeah that more or less that seven years more less kept me alive you're definitely alive for a reason don't you think what do you think looking back at your life Paul it's madness like I said it's like a Quentin Tarantino film it's like comedy and madness and talk to the drain it's like the use of the day a lot of different pedestal yeah when I got that seven years and I went to strange ways I had so many incidents I was landed in strange ways just local thugs you say that it sounds stupid just because of mentality said there's a pool table next to the phone there was phone cards just nice fast store there was phone cards yeah on the phone you had to put in them days there's a kid on the phone I said who's on the phone after you he said nobody I said give me a shout when I can use the phone I'm just finishing this game of pool off so then I the kid shouts you're on the phone now there's a cue there there's a kid big young kid said there's a cue here so I said that's nice stay in it what do you mean you two stay in it I said oh god pad 16 mate when you're ready get on the phone you're staying in there a little bit the screw's coming it starts it out in the morning the kid comes in myself and he goes I said are you let's have it I said are you cheeky bastard I'm going to kill you slang what I'm going to kill you so he's sitting around and said he said I'll fight to a die so anyway we start throwing now the cells about that wide you know the little table and not to throw punches so he gets down now one of my moves a trick what I've learned you know your two fingers there you can push up there right and when you can squeeze the weed pipe and it's like a rock wire it grips it doesn't let go so you can squeeze them to your last breath now he's like a muppet and said do you still want to die now he belongs to me kissed him on his nose and said thank me for not biting your nose blah blah blah one cue I've never bit anyone's nose up so anyway so then he walks out right this is totally changing life he walks out and I thought sorry for him giving so many phone cards got him some tobacco cause he took a bit and it must have been I was 40 then degrading for a young kid that's stepping the ladder to have a good hiding then this kid called twinnie called half went in the cell and put him unconscious right so any maver I have in prison I was surrounded then with cotton wool the next thing is one of my daughters is coming to visit me she was coming with my new grand kid PR and she put a bag on top of the car she put the bag on top of the car some bag had just come out of the prison grabbed the bag got off right so then the thing we found out who the kid was visiting right so we found out he's the address his dad's address and where the kid who did the thing there sent a firm down the dad was supposed to be justified but we've been diplomatic saying what it's some coof if son's in here we don't want him if the dad worrying about the son we want the backpack everything with it an apology from the kid who did it right I'm not going to set ribbities with young kids that have problems yeah so the apology come blah blah blah the governor got on it and said look Paul we don't want we're not aware of who you are what you capable of we don't want any problems blah blah blah he said you give this kid a miss he said then what I've already made the deal with the dad we'll let you go to any now I've got seven years to any cat be prison you want to go to and there's a new one called loud and grange so loud and grange when it first opened say there was a wing it had 60 on a wing 60 on a wing it's like a new private prison you would only have four monks four sows not angry but because the capital is the capital they would allow about 30 40 the cotton is on there right so the same scenario throughout my life my reputation is somebody that should be 64 odd yeah not somebody 548 so everyone's heard it's like the drums are out there's a gangster coming to loud and grange blah blah blah a big player so when I land a lot of sniggering was going on right when they see me right because that was super fit and down to my fighting weight about 13 stone and so they've gone like that and they've looked at me then they've cut the cotton is a northerners the one way like that he said you alright cock so what do you mean I'm like alright cock he said you like it here cock I'm thinking what's the cock about yeah right but the cotton is tucking the thingy but I thought let it go over your head now when I said in the reform schools you learn to turn the other cheek so you don't get done in onslaught right I have turned the other cheek thinking fucking cock yeah but I'll just let it go over my head right but there's no punches being thrown at yeah so then the last thing at night right he said oh how do you find it here cock so it was the first night I went in themselves thinking about cock I was just what is that walking the pad all night thinking cock cock cock what's that about thinking how could it's all camera door how to get in in my pad to have it now now because I just if I've had that much of virus I despise virus despise it why because I've seen what it's done it's gone from having a nice fight now when I in my younger days like I will start to punch with a kink when my hands are like that yeah so when I punch I'll throw a punch up then when I'm couple say inches away that's when my power comes so that's just where I connect then the power comes so I am start to punch there then in there I can knock a person out the only thing it hurts is their pride I never fall on I never could I've only ever been done once for violence and that was against a racist guy who was in the NF right but I despise I've had years of violence even when 20 years before I wanted to walk away from it but then I had to show to be a bit of a penis just to survive so they know I'm still capable if I ended up playing the vicar saying virus is not worth it blah blah blah they'll see the weak link and come at me yeah so I had to pretend that I was still a loose cannon like I was when I was 20 or 21 still ready to prove a point which I wasn't so anyway so this when I got to loud and grange I will sit there for violence yeah so then in the next day this this kid at dinner time said you're as I'm going for dinner are you having any wild bassoon bread with your dinner wild bassoon bread is a northern bread yeah so I thought oh god I've had enough of this clown I said what is it with you mate I said the thing that you said to me like I'm your comedian hey I said get in my pad now get in my pad he said I was having a joke I said what you call it I said I'll show you a cock I'll fill your head in then this bear monster turns round I said I'll have it with you that's the only thing he did was watch in my pad it was out for about 10 minutes and I told his mates to get him right so then a couple of week after right a couple of weeks this was my last fight now this I was there's a thing called a violent challenging behavior right a problem what they now they understand what it is now violent challenging behavior means that you could be violent in a fight right not I can have a fight and talk about the weather it's like you've always got control of yourself yeah but you can be violent in the casinos right where I could be winning 70 grand but I'll still be betting because you're going and you're fighting yourself you could do 25 press ups one day the next day you'll do 40 press ups it's violent challenging behavior yeah so that's one of the problems so when I was in the gym one day and I'm on the roaring machine every Sunday used to get one and a half hours in the gym getting old and green instead of just the hour so I used to do in an hour and 20 minutes 20,000 meters on the roaring machine blast it out yeah so with this one occasion this cockney kid who's just come on the wing right now the cockney was the first to strike people in prison yeah he come on the wing he had a problem with a kid made the kid put a towel on his face stripes him yeah so don't go everywhere and I'm like you the way you're shaking your head I'm thinking what's this about how can anyone put a towel there and that's set to be stripes wow it's barbaric but it's not my problem so on the Sunday when I'm doing 20,000 meters he goes on the roaring machine next to me so the day after he come in my pad so he goes like that he said why was you trying to impress me so I said what do you mean he said the way you was rowing so I thought wow now I'm not going to say to this kid what mate I'm not trying to impress you look you've got the wrong bargain I know he's most probably be ready with his daft Stanley knife even though I've never seen a towel so one hour of him one hour of him picks his head up open is your walk is your but this kid is off the rails yeah they even they put him on another wing right now I'm half sick that I have to half live right is now that's the last fight I've had that was the last fight because after that I looked at myself in the mirror thinking you're going to end up as a stupid punch one and even on my last sentence even on my last sentence all the young kids 10 times more capable than I was I could have seen it in my own eyes they had me around cotton wool where I was talking about the earlier days where somebody wouldn't get 5 feet near me that what is like in the strange ways that's what it was like in all the other prisons they went what was it like when you heard master get killed how did you feel heart bleeding sad because he was we've walked into a new generation where Massey would Massey believe it or not got most of his reputation fighting against the system master Massey was in what he called he's got every right to be called Manchester Mr. Big because even they say I'm capable of whatever right he's got a hundred like me but I will stand in front of Massey I will stand as a friend to do whatever for Massey Massey had a firm or the people I knew about that I would go and see Massey and say let's do them before they do you for Massey because that's how much of a friend Massey was what about the nuns who tough were they back in the day they was ganstified on that documentary Desi noonen mentioned more after people when he's sitting around he said he's got more guns than the police everyone laughed and they thought it was humoration everything like that but he did have so many lads with guns he was capable of getting lads to do whatever now Damian was a different clique Damian run the doors in Manchester any gangsters used to go in that Asiendo Damian did what they called a gangster the way you mouth it all you must be a gangster there's your hat do you want me to get your cigar they was all capable but that was part of Massey's firm Paul Massey I know a lad who had seven kids just like my father had seven kids I walked into this lads house on his wall there's not one picture of his kids there's pictures of Massey on his wall and that's what Massey was about let's talk about your book Paul you've got your book out now working people buy that working people buy your book but now it's coming it's going to be into the shocks good I'll leave the link in the description just before we finish up one of your toughest fights you said it was against one of the nuns is that correct why it was such a tough fight because I've never been beat I've never been beat but this fight with Damian noon when I come out of Lindon and I was like the fittest I've ever been I was 11 and a half stone I could put 50p in every stomach muscle and the 50p will stick out super super fit now I would drink my last blood before I was beat you have to put me in a coma now Damian was only 21 years of age he wasn't the 20 stone what people seen on the aciendo he was a young kid who had been through life ready to step through it now I had a little bit of an argument over a parking space he stole it on me sprit my nose down the middle he was the first man I had to fight what I couldn't see for a couple of minutes now I come back from such a panic for the first couple of minutes and I managed to win that fight couldn't knock him out managed to win it because he ran out of breath and raised his arms so I come back from the death if he would have been fitter I would have been traumatised for anybody that's watching maybe wanting to get involved in a life of crime we used to watch your films we used to glamortise it as a great life but what advice would you give for anyone who wants to get involved in trying to be a bad boy what's around to say is don't surrender where these young kids now they're getting involved in gangs and when they're involved in gangs half 90% of them could have seen it on my last census and they're walking around like zombies 90% of them are surrendered like I surrendered thinking I'm going to have a life of crime I'm going to get a life census so I might as well get it young they're taking knives now to what it could to willing to go all the way so really they've surrendered themselves there's no need to surrender if you're a criminal now you can't drive the nice cars the police will take it off you if you're a nice to five worker you can lease it they should have areas for young criminals who are ready to surrender to cool down they should send them to the other side of the country and say there is a get out because I have what it got now I've come out after 10 years I've spent nearly 10 years in prison I have to get my teeth done because you can't go to a dentist there inside the system I've got to come out and say about getting my teeth done for 20 grand these kids are walking zombies now when I see these kids and I see myself in them what life they're going through it's heartbreaking and the easy get out course for them is not to surrender see when you were talking through your interview there you were talking about you always challenge yourself on accepting to surrender how do you think your life would have been if you had made a decision not to surrender and go fuck this and try and make changes one of my brothers is Michael he's my older brother now people have took him for me because he's six foot he's six foot one he's even got a slash mark down there big good looking lad he's got a slash mark there it won't even go to the police now he's not a criminal far from a criminal but he's got his fighting genetics like he's got hundreds of old diggers out there they've got fighting genetics get drunk they'll have fight some will go home winning some will go home losing but it's all in a night but they're not criminals my brother I'll say to my brother in the early days Michael got a ride I can fool you on a ride where you can earn 60 70 grand Michael turned around and said look pal I'm a nine to five worker I have three holidays a year I'm happy with it stay with your life I was part of where the what your way was your turn round and Michael said don't surrender but also but you don't surrender but you've got to use your thinking skills and you've got to think how you're not going to get involved in this is it worthwhile Paul it's been a pleasure telling your story man listen it's been a mad rollercoaster I wish you all the best for the future stay out of trouble and God bless you Paul well do you know what good done is