 Hello everybody are we on good morning good afternoon I don't even know what time it is I think it's nighttime for our friends from Korea they came all the way here thank you for that so I'm Mark Collier and this is Jim Curry and we worked on OpenStack together at Rackspace so we have a longer history than that though okay let's start the beginning what was the beginning well that's a dark period we don't talk about where we worked at that company in Round Rock oh yeah yeah Mark and I worked together at Dell you actually had two rounds of Dell though you know that's just a rumor I'm instantiated yeah yeah and I worked at Dell in the 90s when most y'all weren't born yet and then again in the 20 odds the 20 odds that's right yeah and then you were at Rackspace when when did you join Rackspace 2006 okay and then you were at Rackspace in 2009 2008 2009 yep this is a really thrilling story it is so we know each other yeah so so Jim convinced me to get in the web hosting business which I thought was gonna be a hard sell but cloud computing seemed like a pretty cool thing so no actually so I'll tell one story about Mark so when Mark for those you don't know Mark really well you should he's one of the best one of the best vision guys I know but in terms of execution and building things around partnerships and community is just world-class as you can see by what's going on here with OpenStack and I think this is gonna be a roast what is roast but I'll get to that in a second but but you know I think the reason you joined Rackspace was not because you were interested in necessarily web hosting I think at that point we had just gotten into cloud we launched in 2008 and I think you were one of the first guys that like that really lit the fire and are trying to open source what we're doing which is I think why you joined and then you became a pain in the ass to a lot of the managers the company on that so yeah they are all in favor but yeah we have to give props to Jason seats to because he he was so if you guys don't know Jason seats he's now managing investments at tech stars here in Austin but he previously started a company called slice host which is a VPS and Jim was running corporate development at Rackspace bought they bought slice host you bought a lot of companies we did this nice and someone else's checkbook right you just like it's fun to write what if we just buy you guys yeah so they bought slice host you know Jason seats is super smart guy built this company kind of bootstrapped and you know it became a big part of Rackspace's cloud and stuff but he he was one of the people that really he put together this awesome slide and slide deck I'm still can't get find a copy of it but it was basically like here's what would happen if we actually went all in on open source it's like it's gonna be scary you know all the stuff's gonna be hanging out there for people to see our dirty laundry but like if we do it we can get an army of developers and do something bigger than just building it in house so and then two months after he gave that talk he quit and said good luck yeah he did I actually convinced him to quit which was kind of weird I guess but he just I don't know he was a he was a startup guy that's why he's a tech stars now and he was in this big company and he just didn't seem happy you know I was like dude you sold your company you can do anything you want why why are you coming to work every day and then of course you're not supposed to convince people to quit that work for company I found out later that's I guess it's bad etiquette but I was like you should be happy right now he's much happier he just wasn't happy managing thousands of people it wasn't his thing now he's a tech stars guy yeah anyway and also just if any of you guys are looking for as you think about funding if you're gonna do something now or in the future one of these that that Jason is great about is first of all he's built and run a company before when I wanted to see slices the first time anyone who's ever been in a web hosting or services business knows the customers are awesome but they take a lot of work and he had 25,000 customers at that point and for employees and I went in and met with them and they just walked away from their computers like there was no problem I like was you have calls coming in like no we'll be fine so he built a system that was just incredible for running at scale and then in terms of working with entrepreneurs he's really good at helping them think through all the challenges from a product perspective from a business building perspective and he's just stellar so he's a great guy for you guys to get to know yeah I think another credit to him is that for being on board with this open source plan is that effectively the root cause was slice hosts his baby that we bought couldn't really scale it was a good VPS for small business it wasn't really going to be like a truly scalable cloud platform for Rackspace so we realized we need to sort of start from scratch and rewrite it and he said well if we're gonna do that it's an open source a lot of people would be so you know protective of their baby like well there's nothing you know my book baby's not ugly well that's why he was nobody knows why he was ready to quit he was tired he had to rewrite everything I got to get out of here anyway you're telling a story about something I don't remember no we'll let's talk about money okay so you've always loved money so now you're now you're officially just you just do money all the time do you like just have it in the office I'd say open source so you're not at Rackspace anymore I'm not yeah so we started we started group I'll give the whole story so Landon Napier I don't know how many people are here familiar with Rackspace but Landon Napier was a CEO of the company and just an amazing leader he joined Rackspace it was a million in revenue was a CFO initially then became the president and then became the CEO shortly after that and I think as Mark can attest we were a company that went through we basically had no middle stage it was like going from being a small company to a large company and somehow we survived it but we really thrived in it and a good deal of that credit goes to a lot of different people Lou Mormon Graham Weston but Landon was the CEO and was really good at doing that and so when he left one of the things that he thought about and we spent time talking about was you know how do we get to help companies that are exiting the early kind of figure out what to build and who to sell it to kind of the early product market fit stuff had got that figured out but weren't really sure how to build a company so I think there's a lot of really smart technologists in the world who are good at sitting with seed stage companies and helping evaluate whether that's a good technology good product and where it's going to go I'm not one of them and I don't think there's that many that are really good at doing that it's very hard when someone knows their market and their customer way better than you do to really give good advice on that but what we found is that once you get out of that stage a lot of entrepreneurs even if they've done it before need help on thinking through the challenges of scaling so you know literally how do you go to market how do you think about building your organization and your leadership team how do you think about services versus product all these different types of activities and we I think actually a story from OpenStack we learned is having a good ecosystem helps we didn't have any experience maybe you did but didn't have real experience in doing open source we had great people that helped us along the way I think about the guys in the Zen Source Simon Crosby and Gordon Mangione or the Ubuntu guys a lot of people helped us and so we want to bring that kind of spirit as people are thinking about how to build something can we not only be capital for them but can we can we actually be helpful with them with our experience and get involved and one of the things we like a lot is open source and so we have spent a lot of time looking at open source in particular as an area to invest in so you know that's kind of who we are this group of people that helps build help people build things what's the name of that build group okay it's good branding it wasn't mine because we as you know OpenStack we had a lot of names before it was OpenStack and all the bad ones for mine oh yeah well we should we should talk about those names what were some of the early OpenStack names well Sangria Sangria does anyone know what Sangria is yeah I we thought it was a good one but we got we got next on that one cloud commander that was Grahams yeah I wasn't a fan of that one and then actually Kraken Kraken so we wanted to call it Kraken that was going to actually our code name for it and what we wanted to do this is very silly of course but when we were gonna we were gonna open source some stuff we were gonna like just throw out like USB keys and say like release the Kraken I don't know that was because that was all for one joke but that's like totally worth it I think well we missed you missed the chance for the K release oh yeah well you can come back around the next time there's a kilo okay yeah it's like what was the K release yeah but it's it's interesting you know having done I've been around here talking to a lot of companies and one of the things that we found is first of all is anyone here looking for money now by the way or trying to raise money because I could okay so he wants money I'd like some Christian give him some money so one of the things that there's a lot of hand wringing that goes on in the open source world about you know is there ever going to be a bill how many billion dollar companies are going to be in this space are you supposed to call them unicorns or unicorns right that fat over no or someone else calls them donkeys with donkeys with party hats on but the open source world there's always it's actually the analogy to open stack to me is really similar you know there's open stack when we launched it there was a whole lot of like there's just a lot of doubt you know not going to make it there's all these challenges but it just kept kind of going and going and found its own own place open source there's a lot of prognosticators who are having a hard time really getting through how you build a big company but what we have found is there's a lot of things changed that people haven't really paid attention to one is we forget now that five years ago enterprises were not doing cloud we rack space built their entire business on you know people in IT departments or in marketing departments pulling out the credit card and swiping and getting someone to spin up an instance and start running and then it became more mainstream open source was actually the same way when we started trying to sell companies on the idea of an open source cloud that was a really hard thing for them enterprises really were not interested in adopting open source yet and in a very short it was not a positive it was a negative it was a negative people's like okay well who's going to stand behind it and it's like okay you know other than red hat no one seemed to have ever heard of that's right any open source thing they they'd relied on that's right they probably did but they just didn't and quite crystallize for like the people at the top of a lot of companies that's right and in fact a lot of them you know had very antiquated views of it right it's not a secure we're not going to be as much of control all these things that have really changed in the last five years and I think that is something that we are still in the very very early stages of and that's where the dollars start to come in so when enterprises want to adopt technologies they don't necessarily just want to adopt stuff that's free or stuff that they're going to run as a one-off that doesn't look like the rest of the world they want stuff that's standard that they know they can hire support for from outside and that there's vendors that are going to support it Allah like the red hat example from a long time ago it may not be in the form of a package distribution it may be in some other form but enterprises want that but we're still in the very early stages of it but that is one way about I don't think people think enough about and there'll be a lot of opportunities there to create value the second thing is historically people have not liked the idea of a company that gets started with a services focus and then moves towards product and this is why open source companies have had trouble getting funding in the past I think it's actually it's actually interesting to think about as a negative because in my mind it's actually a positive open source companies have a unique opportunity to take a product I eat the projects they work with go work with early customers start to package up and learn what they want and from there build their business models and for whatever reason it's not been a popular way for VCs to fund but we we like investing in that looking for opportunities there so I think again market dynamics are changing I think people are going to get more open to open source business models being more fundable and you know whether or not we actually end up with a lot of big open source companies are a lot of really small ones I think there'll be a lot of money paid to them by customers and I think they're going to continue to create value and there'll be an opportunity for folks to do it so I say all that because if you're thinking at all about doing an open source based business I would say go do it you'll find there'll be more friendly investors like us to look at it and I think it will be a great space for customer acquisition in the next few years so can you talk at all about some of the companies you've invested in or is it all like hush hush no no no we've only done two so it'll be a quick conversation we one of them I'll talk first about one of them that's not related open sources company called maintenance assistant they basically have a SaaS platform for maintenance departments that have to serve companies that really have revenue producing assets that they've got that go offline they're not making money so think factories and power plants and chemical equipment things they really need to track ironically they use a ton of open source and if you go through all their models it's a big part of how they empower their business like everyone else does the second one which is actually our first investment was a company called continuum analytics and they're based here in Austin and is anyone here familiar with anaconda python anyone know that so these guys have anaconda python the founders wrote numpy if anyone's used the numpy software library data pi sci-pi and it's interesting that's the exact model we like there they were consumers first they started off the founders were scientists a biologist and a physicist lab coats and stuff lab coats not data scientists scientists actual science actual scientists right they still exist and they were doing research and they found the tools inadequate for the work they wanted to do they wanted to write their own scripts they found python to be the easiest language to learn they learned python that led to the creation of these libraries and then they decided launch a business around it they started as a services consulting business and have gradually moved that to a product opportunity and they're awesome because I actually something I didn't say it's fun about investing open source they have a sense of purpose that's also beyond just the company like they really want to change the world they want to make data science accessible usable not only by data scientists but for managers who may not actually know how to use the tools today but need access to data artifacts and the ability to manipulate them but they believe very much in their mission and this is another powerful thing about open source companies when you get into the right one and and as you find them that they're not only about building great companies and wanted to make them succeed but they actually usually have a mission that's beyond that they want to they want to make it so the developers lives can be easier they want to make it so that a sys admins lives can be easier or they want to make it so that the world can get a better data science tools and when you combine kind of that that mission with a company you can get some really powerful outcomes and and just from a personal perspective it's more fun to work with companies like that then then folks that don't necessarily have a mission yeah I think we've seen this in an open stack to where you know people working at big companies that maybe have just kind of kicking the tires thinking about open stack they come to the summit they have fun it's just more fun than like being stuck in a cubicle all day and and just working with people at your company you get to meet smart people at other companies and it can become part of your job to work with people at other companies and that just seems really obvious to everyone in open source but this is not how work most jobs unless you're in business development or sales you don't talk to people at other companies it just is not part of your job you're you're mostly talking to people at your company and once you get a taste of that as well this is actually really cool and we're trying to accomplish something and like there's so many things written about culture like companies the most important thing in a company's culture which is totally true but I think you know people that read some Harvard business review you know how I feel about Harvard they was like oh we just need to put more culture in it let's hire a culture person you know like throw more culture and it's like it doesn't work that way you don't just like throw get a foosball table may have culture it's like people think that's like the solution but you actually want them to be on a mission that has purpose and then they'll be excited to come to work and like that we have everybody feels better about that yeah it's it's it's if you think about like to that point when we when Raxby started OpenStack we didn't you know it was hard for us to recruit developers it was just you know we weren't thought of as a place you went to work on interesting problems and if you're a really good developer you probably in addition to wanting to have a job you want to work on interesting problems and when OpenStack happened the level of talent that we were able to recruit to the company changed dramatically and not just in terms of quality just the volume we were able to get a lot more folks and again always good things come out of that and this is what's been great about open source is it does allow that ability to combine community mission and ultimately the ability to make money as customers enterprises etc get more open to that as a concept of technology and what they're willing to consume so we're bullish on it and I think that as we go further and further into the world of investing less and less is going to get invested in proprietary software because again we started with a world in which enterprises were against it I think we're headed to a world where enterprises are going to demand it they're going to want to have an open alternative to the stuff they build and most you know kind of core proprietary software I think we'll start to disappear we've we've actually seen this happen a couple of years ago we were talking to some users that were just starting to get get started with OpenStack and they were putting out RFPs or whatever to different vendors and they actually put in the in the specs of the of the contract or the requirements document anything you write for us that's it that's you know to help improve OpenStack must be upstreamed like we we are not going to support you building a bunch of like proprietary forks or add-ons to OpenStack because that's not in our interest even if you just build it for us and we don't actually want code that no one else is running which is a really interesting thing like the that it's kind of counterintuitive like well where's my competitive advantage well the competitive advantage is moving faster and the way you move faster is by being on a platform that more people are on and you know to your point about recruiting you know we had Bloomberg a guy from Bloomberg give this great talk a couple years ago at our summit and we were of course just wanting to get users to talk and Bloomberg's great name and so we we talked to them about like yeah we really want to give a talk and we asked them okay well this is awesome like what's like what's your motivation you know giving back to community whatever and they said you know number one is we want to recruit and people love working on open source you know they may you know they probably heard of Bloomberg but you know if they're if you're a hardcore technologist you may or may not care about like the business news and for you know industry but like we want to be known as a company that that embraces open source we're part of OpenStack and that's going to really help us recruit that talent so it has really turned around where you see companies wanting to shout about about it so that they can recruit I'd actually I guess I have a question for you on this so one of the things I feel like we saw early on that I don't know if changing or not is a lot of people didn't necessarily have the right reasons for thinking about open source as a part of their business models it was a little bit more of a marketing gimmick sure do you feel like people are now especially in this community how do they approach it like what is the reason when people say not just OpenStack but any technologies why do you think that they see open source is competitive is it customer acquisition is it I think it's just that there's this a general I mean I don't know this is kind of cloud specific or open stack specific there's just this general need to move faster you know more developing software is becoming a strategic part of people's business pretty much every industry and you know IT was just thought of as this cost center that man I wish you know the CFO was like why can't we make it cheaper you know and this isn't strategic this is just keeping our windows machines patched which is a necessary evil but it's not creating value we're just preventing loss right and then as more companies if you look if you're a bank you are going to fail if you don't have a great mobile app well you know banking used to have nothing to do with mobile apps you know it suddenly it's strategic to your business and you back that up by cloud and stuff like that so the need to kind of the value chain of almost every company moving towards development of software that people wanted to be on cloud and you know they what I think people found that had some bad experiences early on as if they took open stack and it was missing a feature so they built it in-house and sort of built their own custom version then when the next version of open stack came out it probably had that feature in it but they had a really hard time sort of upgrading and then they're like three four five versions behind and they sort of learn this lesson that like okay if I build something you keep it to myself that's against my self-interest right it's very counterintuitive right but like sharing is bet is actually better for you because a platform that more people are running is gonna be more stable the bugs are gonna get fixed you know you don't want to be the only one running a platform right it's actually bad news right and it might it might get you ahead for like six months but then when it you know pretty soon you know time flies and you're way behind so I think that's part of the open source advantage to really thinking about upstream like AT&T has talked about how they're hiring just tons and tons of developers and the ones they have they're helping kind of train to think about how to be good upstream open source citizens and it's not always you know the way people are used to working but they realize that's strategic for them so I don't know how that I guess that applies you know outside of cloud as well applies it so that's a I think in this case is worse especially with investors there's a focus on speed and actually with companies we've seen this too which is you know if we've contribute back to upstream we get slowed down by the community we have to negotiate what we want it's viewed as negative you know we don't want to get in that kind of a situation and I do think your investors tend to foster that they want to totally agree they want to see speed but it's never good in the long term and I think that that's I think that is hopefully the mindset will change to where everyone in the ecosystem understands the more you contribute to upstream the more stability you get the more supportability you get and ultimately you know you're not going to get a vendor who's want to keep your your one snowflake deployment or feature alive forever they're gonna eventually want to retire it so I think that and then developers leave and then who's gonna maintain it you know and I just remembered this expression that was going around from Jason seats back in back in the day that what just seems appropriate which is some consultant that Rackspace paid millions of dollars to come up with the slogan but it's really worth it but now I'm gonna give away for free was it so I believe an open source this slow as smooth and smooth as fast remember when that was like the trendy saying around the executive yeah you know washroom yeah and they had made on some banners to what's that I made it on some banners in the building to yeah and it was like okay well does that like contradictory and the idea is just you know try to get more predictable this is about data center management stuff like that but it's just like if you're in a hurry and you do something rash whatever a little short-term advantage you get you're gonna regret it because you're basically just you know it's technical debt is another you know kind of word for it but right you know it's it's not really building a long-term sustainable platform for your company you're just getting this you know really short-term win and it's not it's not that's not thinking strategically about open source if you if you treat it that way yeah well I think that's I think that again I think that world will hopefully change but it's still a it is still a problem when you come to the motivations on on customers yeah I mean I first of all does anyone have any questions about fundraising or the environment specifically around open stack we can answer be happy to talk through it if you do if not we're happy to keep going you should do your pitch okay maybe later I'll do a pitch now let's see slogans as a service that's the only thing I'm good at so I don't need but I need some money okay no questions well let's see so you guys have been around at build group for how long a year we started about 18 months ago okay oh I'll give a pitch I'll give a pitch for everybody here so yeah so everyone in this room that you're getting valuable operating experience at some point invest in something that you can help with the I'll do we have VCs in the room professional investors I'm not a professional investor so I don't count myself play one on TV okay so here here's there has been one trend in that industry that bothers me I think should bother all of us the industry started in the 70s really as former business operators entrepreneurs helping other ones and really built up around that concept guys that had passion for product for business for technology for people for what have you and I want to see great things happen over the last 15 years we've gotten more and more pure finance people in and they always have a role to play obviously but most of them are not driven by the desire to build great technology or great products or great teams or great companies necessarily they have different motivations what school do they typically come from now at Stanford Oh Harvard a lot of a lot of school you're not trust those people yeah don't don't I I have some self- clothing that's healthy it's healthy but they're there and they're not necessarily helpful to their their the people they work with and one of the things that I we're trying to change is you know let's get more folks who have expertise in this back involved now I did angel investing a lot before I did this and it's gonna I'm gonna get crushed all because I didn't I didn't really know how to think about investing at seed stage really and it was new a new process for me so I wouldn't encourage people to to get out and invest individually but I find a way to think about how you support companies whether or not it's now or later in your career because everyone in this room has a lot to offer especially around things like open source or cloud and how that can apply to business models and what I love to see is more and more of us helping us so if you want to think about angel list or other things that have gone on in that world and encourage people to help that could go to the mic question so again be smart about it you don't want to lose your money I'm not encouraging you to go out and invest in and you have a safe harbor statement on this I'm not encouraging to invest anything but I encourage you to spend I'm encouraged to spend your time thinking about I want to get rich quick okay sorry question I do not have that recipe yeah yeah my question is do you have any thoughts on the advantages disadvantages of open core versus pure open source you know those two models yep yep man open core is kind of a I guess maybe let's define what it is first because I think does everyone in this room have a good idea of what open core okay so I guess the concept the question would be do you want to be in a position in which you have I guess I'll give two scenarios you have a pure open source project the core is always free and the tooling around is what you make your money on or the services like an enterprise edition or an enterprise edition sort of hold back things from the open source is maybe a negative way to look at it but that's that's essentially all pieces that are required to operate I guess is the way to think about it as opposed to things that would be tooling or other tools around it I think that model is pretty frowned upon these days there are success stories in it financially but I don't feel like I don't feel like enterprises are really excited about that model I think ultimately customers are what really drive what people are going to be able to do and I think too many companies have been burned by the open core model they are they I do believe customers ultimately want to make have to see their vendors make money I think Mark can speak to this we worked with a lot of vendors in our day and you have an unhealthy vendor that you have a reliance upon it's not a good situation so they understand the need to have vendors make money but they also don't like to be held hostage by them so I we saw you know I think this whole point about upstream I think customers always want to have the ability that if they want to switch vendors or they want to fire vendor do it on their own they can do it but if there's if if losing key functionality is a risk for them or losing a license is a risk for them they don't want to do it so I think that model slowly dying yeah I think sometimes there's a little bit paradoxical like a lot of things in open source but companies don't fire their vendor because they can they feel comfortable that they don't have to it's like they always they have that safety so they're like okay well I'm not locked in so I don't actually feel the need to constantly shop around you know I just come back to this vendor but I know that I bet on this open source thing but you know it's not tied directly to this vendor so it actually kind of eases people's mind about adopting your software because they know that they're not married to you for life and then in ironically they sort of may stick around longer it's funny that so that's actually I'll give you another example on that that to that point which is you see the same thing around like contracts there's always this effort by people to get long term contracts signed up with big cliff dates those actually have higher turnover than when you see people do month-to-month and the reason being is you see though the month-to-month you're not actually introducing some artificial need to go to procurement to get something re-engaged it's usually not a big commit you know you could stop it whenever you want and they tend to just let it run whereas when you introduce these cliffs a lot of times what happens is it's a big investment requires budgeting requires procurement they really start to think about whether they want to go with somebody else and so that model's changed a lot too and sass has helped sass has taken off because of that sort of concept pricing model so you had a question sir yeah so one of the things you brought up regards to like angel support groups yeah as a young entrepreneur myself and as a contributor to the open-stack project how does one who is in the CEO CEO type organization level build relationships with bigger companies those who have had that experience to get that mentorship to be able to bridge that gap and be able to identify you know mistakes or you know exposing yourself to more risk early on for me that's been the most difficult thing is trying to identify those relationships to get that support and help and guidance yeah I mean there's there's obviously you know there's former like incubator programs you can do but there's a lot of like I think that most most operators and I would just see us but you know guys that have director marketing roles or director sales roles are very knowledgeable you typically get involved in different organizations and want to help out of the companies the nice thing about open source and technology in journals it's a it tends to be a very sharing community but there's a lot of there's a lot of different groups to join I'll give you one that I've been impressed with here in Austin are you by the way you familiar with that next gen angels have you met with those guys was it called next gen angels no I'm on the previous generation old gen angels oh gee angels so it's a group that was started by Steve Case which was Steve Case famous from AOL days and he was in town this week wasn't he talking somewhere might have been sorry you're old school so you would know AOL is old school yeah I mean I've just got my aim account so it's he started this up and his mission was to get entrepreneurs that were under 40 in particular that really wanted to write micro checks to give them way to get involved with companies not just to write and I say micro checks I mean like five hundred or a thousand dollars to companies but do it in a way that was smart which is you're not doing it by yourself you're doing it with a group and the ask is that you get involved and help those companies so yeah I think I think you automatically get like 600 free hours of mentoring right that's right you get a lot of no you do well so he's still doing it comes on a CD yeah in the mail it's a really but that is dated they do ask you to make a commitment to spend time with these companies and it's not necessarily just the ones you invest in it's all of them so if you have so the whole purpose of it is it's not I think the question I really want to address is a lot of people focus on trying to get always let me get really good CEOs or high level people that are probably pretty busy and not as helpful where there's a lot of other organizations that bring together a broader range of experience and try to get them to help and that's one they do they get together so I've watched him here in town they have I don't know they have 300 people to get involved here in town it all sorts of different levels of organization all different kinds of skills and then they all get together and write checks can be upwards of $500,000 for seed funding as well Galvanize I don't know if anyone's familiar with galvanize they do a lot of stuff to bring entrepreneurs together with operators I gave them your name that you need to spend more time over there but I do think getting involved in those communities is a good way to go the other one is anything else you need to tell me yeah I can do a lot of stuff the other thing is that Mark and I have both done a lot in our careers is just reach out to people that you think are going to be helpful you know again this is how we with OpenStack we reached out to the ZinSource guys and asked them for their help I can't remember how we originally we didn't know we knew Gordon pretty well but we reached out to them and asked for help and told them what we're trying to do and they jumped in with you know both feet and really helped us and there was a lot of different folks along the way on that so and I think that just comes from asking them for the help but there there's the biggest thing I would look for is just building a good network and letting that work itself out so I think we're just about out of time is there any more questions I think does it isn't two thirty I believe let's see anything else I need to ask you another question what's your favorite barbecue place and don't say Franklins well I have you believe or not I actually eat the Franklins get the hell out of here I like the barbecue a lot of barbecue yeah I actually haven't eaten there which is kind of embarrassing so how about you take me to Franklins I'll take you to a lot of barbecue okay it's a date thank you thanks