 One dash page, one dash three is what we're dealing with. But is there an appeal process in here? It's just how to go through things. What did you think of the 450th appeal procedure? The appeal procedure is 421 percent. Oh, that's all right. So I guess we'll just take testimony from parties and everybody. So we'll call me to order. This is the regular schedule meeting of the development review board, August 6th, 2019. We have one item on the agenda. It is application 19-031, which is an appeal of the zoning administrator's decision. Per section 5401 by Susan Brito. So the applicant is appealing the zoning administrator's decision that an outdoor light fixture on a single-family residential property at 1609 Hill Street Extension was exempt from town of Berlin Land Use and Development regulations. And we have received written information. But at this point we will take testimony, but first we need to swear everybody in. So anybody that intends to give testimony, raise your right hand. And if you're a party, do you swear to tell the truth about the night before this board on the penalty of perjury? I do. So I guess we would first hear from... You want to go through all the room and see who the party folks are? Oh, that's right. But would we have a party status to this? Sorry for the confusion. We've never done one of these before. Hold this chair back for a moment. Oh, sure. Sure, absolutely. Can I slide that right now? Yes. So, sure. We've never done it before either. What was the first party that took place that was complaining? I guess it's an appeal, right? So it's simply an appeal from a zoning administrator's decision. So he basically deemed the light in compliance with the regulations. So the system's appealing that decision before the DRB, which is the process laid out in the zoning regulations. So the appeal would go to us to hear and decide. And I just do want to note that our decisions in any application really are guided by what the regulations say. I mean, obviously sometimes there's ambiguity, but we try to write down where there's a little ambiguity as possible. And we try to be able to just follow the regulations. So I guess if people want to introduce themselves, I'm not sure there's a party status, but just by virtue of you being here and having signed in, there's youths on record that you're here. So if everybody wants to introduce themselves. I'm Sy Gretel, I'm the plaintiff's son. Okay. I'm Jody Fuehr, Jackman's father. Okay. Yeah, I'm Jackie's son. Back in hours. Hi. Okay. So, oh, I'm sorry. I would be Chris Bradley, the applicant, significant owner of Susan Biddo. Okay. I'll be doing most of the testimony. Okay. Perfect. So I think we would start with your testimony. Very good. I scored two copies according to your procedures for a filing appeal. I do not know if you've seen this document. Yes. I have a chance to review it. Yes, we have. I think for simplicity's sake, I'm going to read it out for some portions of it, but I can. I'll start on page two, the zoning administrator's decision. On May 16th, Berlin zoning administrator, Tom Bedowski, issued a denial via email wherein he gave his decision that a newly installed street light is exempt from Berlin zoning due to section 1101.a, subsection eight. That section states, quote, except within the flood hazard overlay district, C section 2202, a zoning permit is not required for, and we now jump down to subsection eight, an outdoor light fixture on a single or two family resident property with initial output of not more than 3,000 lumens that is downward directed and fully shielded to prevent glare or light trespass off the property. Mr. Bedowski's email denial was written as a forward from another email. Mr. Bedowski received from a certain Zach Casey, who is a representative of GMP, and you can see that as attachment number one to this document. In the forwarded portion of the email from Green Mountain Power, Mr. Casey states that it is his slash Green Mountain Power's opinion that the street lighting question does conform to Berlin's lighting ordinance because it is 2,574 lumens, it is pointed downward, it is fully shielded, and it meets national standards of dark sky compliance. As a result, it is my opinion that there is an appearance that Mr. Bedowski rendered his decision almost solely on the word of Green Mountain Power representative, Mr. Casey, that it was in compliance, although we believe we understand that in the four hour interim between receiving the email from Green Mountain Power and Mr. Bedowski rendering his decision, he also spoke to a technician at Cree. Page three, the statement of disagreement with Mr. Bedowski's decision. We feel that Mr. Bedowski aired in his decision that this newly installed street light is exempt from Berlin's zoning 1101.a subsection 8 because this light is not, quote, fully shielded to prevent glare and light trespass off the property. We understand and do not dispute that Cree, Green Mountain Power, and even the International Dark Sky Association, the IDA, have all indicated that the light is, quote, fully shielded. As referenced by all three entities, however, fully shielded means a fixture that allows no emission above a horizontal plane through the fixture. That's the IDA definition. Berlin also has a definition similar you can refer to it in the glossary section of the your zoning document. Per Berlin's zoning, you have a definition of glare. Glare is defined as, quote, light entering the eye directly from a light source or indirectly from reflective surfaces that cause visual discomfort or reduced visibility. Per Berlin's zoning, you also have a definition of light trespass, which is defined as, quote, light that falls beyond the property it is meant to eliminate. In order to prevent, and I underline prevent, because that is your wording at the end of section 1101A, subsection 8, and I'll refer to that fully shielded to prevent glare, not mitigate, not lessen, prevent. In order to prevent glare and light trespass, responsible companies like Cree manufacture accessory shields, which are specifically designed to mitigate these issues. While a streetlight can be referenced by the industry term fully shielded, which essentially means it does not light the sky. The light emitted by one of these streetlights from the horizontal on down must have one or more light control accessory shields installed to prevent glare and light trespass from specific viewpoints. To underscore the point that Berlin zoning administrator may have aired in making his determination, we contacted the IDA, specifically Pete Strasser, who is the technical director of IDA, about the use of the term fully shielded. Mr. Strasser replied via email and we fully believe that his statement will remove any and all doubt that Mr. Badowski aired in his determination that the streetlight was exempt. I'd like to read from that if I could. That is an attachment, I believe number two. Hello, Pete Strasser here. Thank you for your note. This is quite frustrating to hear. The term, quote, fully shielded has been used in the lighting industry for decades in this synonymous for another term called, quote, full cut off end quote. This is a very clear meaning in that no light is emitted above 90 degrees eliminating all light distribution above the horizontal plane. This is the one of the critical criteria for IDA approval. Some manufacturers, certainly not all, are aware of the need of additional trespass control and provide for an optional trespass shield in situations where it is requested. The Cree RSW model is such a model. In such situations the jurisdiction is contacted and the appropriate shields are installed to end the trespass problem. This is how it is done in Tucson. Lights go in, complaints are noted, and shields are installed. Some places the fixture can be a problem. Some places not, which is the whole point of offering additional trespass control where needed. Your jurisdiction is grossly misinformed on the functional options and capabilities of their selected product. To equate, quote, fully shielded with, quote, includes all optional trespass control mitigating options end quote is simply not the case. He then goes on to say he has a good working relationship with Cree and he intends to get in touch with Cree and have that discussion regarding fully shielded. I'd be happy to contact either the gentleman at Cree and have them get in touch with those who are misunderstanding the notion of what fully shielded means, how it pertains to the product and how to optimally configure the light fixtures in location where additional trespass control is warranted. There's an interesting side note here when we first contacted Green Mountain Power concerning the installation of that new light. Green Mountain Power maintained there were no shields for this light whatsoever. I then pursued and asked for a copy of their spec sheet for the light that was installed. That was attached with zero. I'd like to refer to a couple of things on that. Page one. The Cree RSW series using WaveMax technology will transform the way utilities and municipalities light their residential streets. This is not a security light. This is a street light installed in a yard. Interestingly enough, Green Mountain Power when we contacted them agreed of their own will to attempt to mitigate the light issue. They did so by first installing what is called a cul-de-sac shield. A cul-de-sac shield screens both sides and the back. There's also a separate back shield installed that can be installed and there's also an optional front shield that can be installed. While I have not been on the Adams property from my visual it does not appear to be perpendicular to Hill Street extension. It seems to be on a slight angle. So unfortunately when they installed the cul-de-sac shield it's still left light being seen. This is a picture if you'd circulate that please upside down, I'm sorry, that bright glaring light it's to the top left of the house and the two lights on the house itself are two optional flood lights which at this point are pointed directly at and they're pointed at my house and they're on most nights but I just want to make that point. Is this photo included in your in your testimony? You're taking testimony. I can certainly provide photos and I understand actually that as a result of this by reach your administrative rules of procedure I would expect the site or one of your options is to have a site visit. Do you want to mark this instead of that's the question. That would be fine. We'll take it as part of the testimony. And just as an aside here Mr. Badasky rendered his decision without ever doing the site visit. I'm he rendered his decision I then spoke to Mr. Badasky do you really want to do this would you like to come up and actually take a look? He did so. He did so before and I mentioned I'll continue on with my testimony for me for doing that in itself. Finishing up on the disagreement per Mr. Badasky the property at 1699 Hill Street extension is below this would be Susie's property is below the horizontal point so we are definitely below the 90 degrees so we are susceptible to it's not not above we are below therefore both glare and white trespass are evident from 1699 Hill Street extension and therefore simple logic indicates that 1-1-0-1-a-8 cannot apply it appears in rendering rendering his decision and if we look back at Badasky's statement in fact Mr. Casey indicates that it is quote fully shielded and completely ignores the trailing clause that basically says or that states unequivocally fully shielded to prevent glare or trespass or light trespass off the property we see instead of his decision we see the applicable zoning sections as being 3004-a-b-n-c I quote from 3004-a-b-n-c a reads quote all outdoor lighting not exempted under chapter 110 which is what we just I maintain does not exempt that light or regulated under chapter 320 I'm sorry but chapter 320 is a new a whole new installation must be designed installed and operated in accordance with the provisions of this section section 3004-b reads quote shielded all outdoor light fixtures must be fully or partially shielded section 3004-c reads to the output outdoor lighting must not cause glare or light trespass off the property that is the operative section that we need to be looking at and considering this situation based on the above in order to be exempt from Berlin zoning the newly installed streetlight must have light control accessory shields installed must not cause glare or light trespass off the property in our relief perhaps I should have prefaced all of this I'm sorry it had to come to this I really am across the since Susie has moved into the property I believe there's been a total of four attended contacts with the Adams the first contact was between Susie and Mrs. Adams Mrs. Adams referred the conversation to industry Andy Andrew Adams it was a rather brusque conversation he was not we volunteered to install a shield on the light to help mitigate this issue it was revived since then there have been three additional calls two on the same day one approximately a week and a half later it's all during regular business hours normal business hours where Susie noted that the two lights floodlights that you can see and if we go up there right now you can see them being on and pointed directly at Susie's house as being on during the day and as a good neighbor they might not have realized the lights were on therefore wasting electricity I'm frugal with my electricity and that there was no we only left houses that resulted in a harassment visit or a call to the police department where we were charged or it was suggested that we were harassing I would suggest that three calls over three weeks to be a gentle reminder that their light was on during the day which is not even really affecting us I want to keep this at the appeal and not at the personal okay that's fine alright that is absolutely fine we simply request Green Mountain Power went down to have installing a cul-de-sac shield I believe I understand that Green Mountain Power was requested by the Adams to remove that shield because it was somehow impacting the light on their property they ended up installing a backlight shield on that light which is interestingly enough the standard configuration for that light when it's used for its intended purpose as a streetlight because as a streetlight you have the light you probably have a house behind it so you shield that house from that light so apparently that backlight shield was installed the only purpose of which could be to shield light from going on the back side of the Adams property but apparently that was okay so the relief we ask cul-de-sac shield I don't care what happens on the other side we don't care what happens on the other side which I'm not even sure a front shield and a side shield that as long as it's mitigated fine light up their property however they would like to it's not that we object to them having security or a piece of mind but when light is meeting your definitions approved by your voters on large bill and I think this document was created by this board there was a reason you used and defined the term player there was a reason for the term light trust pass and to find it it meets this criteria so interesting related facts if you're interested let me see no I think I've mentioned the salient points we would respectfully request number one that shields be installed we're not demanding that the light get removed they are entitled to sense of security but not to have such light shining on adjacent property in fact one full lot away such that in a rural designated area you can't even enjoy the night sky when you go out into the side yard or the back yard you have a shadow that's not really the rural nature that I think you intended which is why you define lighting ordinances I think that light specifically is like looking at an LED you know the bright LED light well it's exposed from where I step out onto my back deck so it immediately hits you in the eyes and I have not enjoyed one night at my property not one I'm embarrassed to have people come over to my property at night because I'm embarrassed to be bathed in light I moved to a rural area from Barry and I expected to have a rural setting I never had to have curtains at my house in Barry and now I have to have blackout curtains and additional things over my windows to mitigate light coming into my bedrooms it's terrible is it just permissible for me to ask is that an administrative question can I just ask you a question do you live there also are you talking to me or are you just a I'm the applicant which qualifies me to write this I am not responsible is there a time limit because I have to work tomorrow I guess we just want to apparently don't talk so long I think we just want to make sure we hear all the information that's relevant to the appeal so is that that's pretty much unless you have any questions first I don't know does anybody here want to ask questions can I just ask could you define glare because the neighbors that they've been there have passed 45 years and there are just people that are sensitive but I can't imagine this is a whole different life very sensitive pretty sure it has a little more glare oh no true and all the neighbors that live there are all they've never complained about the light and they actually say that they enjoy the light when they walk in the evening it helps so I want to glare is defined means light entering the eye directly from a light source or indirectly from reflective surfaces that cause visual discomfort or reduced visibility that's how I was defined in this over here so other people so you're sensitive so I think at this point I want to do you have a question I think we should have one witness you're a colleague of Blair I have a question nobody else talk to Blair haven't you paid off their neighbors maybe hold on how long have you owned the property when did you apply I moved in September 15th September 15th 2018 no September 18th 2015 so it's been almost four years okay alright and we understand the light has existed a previous version of that light has existed since 1974 however it's my understanding that if I have a house and I want to rebuild that house exactly the same house I first have to obtain a zoning permit to raise the same house I then need to retain a zoning permit to rebuild the exact same house so when that new light when Green Mountain Power installed that new light that was a completely new light that was not the same light it's a new fixture it's a new bulb this is why so when was it installed I can tell you that because Green Mountain Power heard that the mercury since 1974 was leaking mercury and was deemed toxic by the EPA and they were told they had to take all of them out and upgrade to LIT so it was March 4, 2019 can I just ask how many other neighbors have you complained about that light I know about the old lighting we haven't complained about March 4, 2019 okay this is out of control I'm not going to stop the hearing I'll let you guys I want to hear from the zoning administrator and then we'll hear from people in the audience so I think I sent you all my physician super here page page 2 is Vermont Statues and everything here that's been highlighted in yellow I've added that highlight and under state statutes for appointments the power of the administrative officers I just want to point out that the administrator officer shall minister zoning bylaws literally I don't have the ability to you know it's white it's black and white it's not gray I don't have the discretion to do it so um so um the sprawl is correct 16th I spoke to Zach Casey from Green Mountain Power he I think at Ford is a copy of his he's the operations manager Mr. Bradley called me before about this new light they had an issue in the past with the light because it was not in our zoning regulations then it was deemed that it was a new light so then the new zoning regulations may recall that the zoning regulations didn't get adopted until meeting in March but we were operating under two sets of regulations so we were actually so they were in effect when the new light went in and Mr. Casey from Green Mountain confirmed that so I read to and this is for an exemption of a residential light and I'll read it again Mr. Bradley did read it I'll read it again an outdoor light fixture on a single or two-family residential property with initial output of not more than 3,000 lumens that is downward directed and fully shielded to prevent glare and light trespass off the property is an exempt structure so I talked to Mr. Casey about that and he sent some documents I have it in there the shield that the light that they put in your packet is on next to the right the red arrow here 254 2547 that's the that's the amount lumens that's the light it is a street light that they tone down for residential purposes and so it met the first criteria of less than 3,000 lumens so we talked about was it directed downward it's directed downward we're supposed to have Mr. Bradley mention that there was an order from the from the family here of that Officer Dan Withrow from our the Berlin police visited the property and Mr. Withrow told me to be here to testify to the fact that all the lights on the property are pointing downward I was going to ask him to have his test on me but and so that would be here so the third item the third item the third item is fully shielded so fully shielded is new to us with our regulations and if you go back to a fully shielded they talked about a dark sky compatible so Mr. Bradley mention of Pete Strosser I had the good fortune of speaking to Pete Strosser probably several days before before Mr. Bradley did and I shared that it's page 11 here and I will read what I wrote to Mr. Strosser Mr. Strosser he is the technical director of the International Dark Sky Association it's funny let me back up just a little bit the if you go to and it's on page 10 page 10 of my this is the fixture seal of approval from the IDA the International Dark Sky Association and they talked about shielding and luminary shall be fully shielded emitting of 90 degrees and go on and they have a note here then at the bottom for street and area lights middle should identify optional backlight shields and forward cul-de-sac shields they're optional and so I contacted Mr. Strosser and I'll just read you what I wrote to him I said I'm the zoning administrator in Vermont I recently we have recently adopted new zoning regulations that tries to be dark sky friendly our regulations state that a resident does not need a zoning permit for light fixture if on a two on a single or two family residential property with an initial output of not more than 3,000 lumens that is downward directed and is fully shielded to prevent glare like trespass off property or SW 311 fixtures and contends these meat dark sky parameters the question I have for you is that this model comes with back shields and cul-de-sac shield to either or both these shields need to be installed be considered fully shielded or are these optional in addition shielded thank you for your time this matter he responded hello p here sorry for the moment and has no light directed downward above 90 degrees this is the fundamental criteria for certification the aftermarket shields can be put in place if the light from the fixture is directed in an area that is not desired they are not intended for them to meet the no light mandate but it is an option to be being useful in specific applications to limit light in certain directions I believe the Adams family they can speak to this themselves when they when the cul-de-sac shield was put on the light they weren't getting the light on the property where they wanted they'll I think they'll they testify to that but so again the shields are optional items not deemed necessary to be dark sky approved so the final thing that I give I put a map here and it was page 13 this light is approximately 355 feet from the source to the edge of Susan's property and it's probably another 30 feet to her house it's a significant distance away from her from her house so all things there right there it's illuminating all the way sorry you'll have a chance to speak but they didn't finish it and so again I made the decision based on on the information that I got from from dream out of power who are experts in the light I'm not an expert in the light business so I think we need to hear from yes at the end of the hearing according to the procedures somebody who's a proponent for zoning there's no surprise there's we always ask comments are exactly what we've been doing well can we have floor tonight too your mom's we're going to stop taking testimony if this is going to continue I can't do this I'm sorry I really don't need this over zoning decision this is personal civil court but you're not going to do it here absolutely so I will hear from the family so I just like to say we've spoken to dream out of power and I did not the person there somebody called impersonating her suggesting they were her and that's only done through she's the family then you want to get up here why don't you come sit up here are you going to speak for the family I'm going to go ahead so why don't you so why don't you guys you stay stand and wipe the shield was at through my mom's light fixture your name I'm sorry Andrew Adams Andrew Adams and I called Green Mountain Power to ask why and they said that the neighbor had requested that the shield be at it and I said is that something that neighbors make a request for I said that's my mom's light she pays for it and they said all right your mother does pay for it she said if that's something that your mother doesn't want then we can take it down I said yes please take it down it illuminates near where the basketball hoop is and in the area between our house and the neighbor's house he's never had a complaint about it before and then so they they took the shield down and trying to think about so long story short there's been since Sue has moved in there's been multiple calls to my mother messages as Mr. Bradley has said very rude messages Mrs. Adams you have so much money that you can afford to leave your light on all day it was during the daytime oh it's gone for the day you were gone for the day correct it is emotionally my parent my mom's been there 43 years old it takes a serious lack of character to harass somebody as much as these people have um is so how long is the light the light was originally put up when you know the light's been there for as long as we could ever and was it put up at your request or is it something that Green Mountain Power I don't know why this is relevant I'm just curious what the purpose of the light was it got changed these old high-energy use lights to lower more energy efficient structures I get I understand that I guess I'm just not understanding why that's a Green Mountain I've never seen this situation before where the Green Mountain Power has a security light on a piece of property so I'm just trying to figure out how that yeah it's a pretty good service that they offer I didn't know that yeah the lady at the bottom the hill on Stewart Road okay they're my understanding from that lady was that there was some complaints about her light as well there was complaints about Joe Morse's tractor being started too early in the morning okay so yeah we'll stick to the so is there any yes go ahead Josh so how long is your mother owned the property 43 years I believe 43 years and we hear that there was a light there starting in 1974 the number I heard sorry that's about when your mother bought the property I believe so I don't know my father probably wouldn't be able to speak to that and what does the light as it is right now what does it illuminate on your property it illuminates so looking at the road it illuminates to the right of my mother's house between her house and the neighbor we don't have a we don't have a sketch of the property that picture yeah it's on your packet there so much sorry oh okay so I'm looking showing you the photo that was attached to Tom's testimony I think sure so which is your mother's property 1609 is right there there's post free extension her light is right there the light is right there Mrs. Mike Scott's house right here and there's a big space in the trees right there he cut a bunch of the trees out so he would see the light better than anybody else I've had multiple conversations with him and he doesn't mind the light at all he always so the light's there and how high is it off and around do you know what the height of the pole is I don't maybe these folks do I haven't been on your property I have no idea I think it's 18 to 20 it's above the level of the roof and by the way this is an entire line of cedars that exceed the height I don't know Josh, the man's 18 to 20 feet last couple years he just cut a tree last week so it illuminates this area right around here correct and you said something about basketball of course well there's a basketball right here in the driveway so it kind of illuminates down just under and probably that far right there yeah does your mother pay basketball just do it at 81 yeah And there's no there's no there's no vegetation on this side of the property line correct that field I believe is stolen by Dean more That's a vacant field base correct. Yeah. Yeah, okay, and there's no And there's no vegetation on this side They plan it trees Several trees and attempt to mitigate and as far as the effect on wildlife when I mowed along and my mom has seen Before three or four deer often bed right on mom's lawn and they Have we could how much acreage is that? That side of the house is dark No, you're saying that all the lights are toward your house. That's that wouldn't be the dark side There's deer galore up there. Are there any other are there any other lights in this in this vicinity any other Street lights not that I'm taking those three light on our hill street extension. There's one Um Joe morse and Lynn parody have one out there. I'll set the leader So can I just ask I know your your your house does sit up on the hill so when you so If you when you go outside from your second level are you on your deck? That's you're saying it's sort of straight across from you without correct That's outside my back door that picture right there for mr. Bedowski And this this is what I see usually every night if I want to step outside I get not only the street light Which the led light I I I can believe the other neighbor across the On the other side of the trees doesn't have any light Trespass because you can see that the light is oriented in such a way That it hits My house for the most part more than any other if he would just if the Andy Adams would just come up my driveway and see that when I press my driveway That light is so intense. I have to put my My thing down to it's it blinds me Bob simons lived there for years Balls and ellie mr. Balls and ellie lived there for years And castles never had an issue with it The elevation this the elevation of your mother's First floor or the basement or the ground level sure compared to The Susan's house. Is it uphill downhills level it's downhill from Is downhill from do you now have any idea how much downhill it is those are con tours on their job There's a 20-foot con tours here So what's your so what's your estimation of the distance downhill from here and I thought because if you have an 18-foot You know a light. I thought this was somewhere. But theirs was 15 to 20 feet below this property Okay, that was my guesstimate Joey I just I'm not sure both you or mr. Bowie that um said about the security If the light provides security, is that correct? One of you read that somebody else. Yeah, they had asked because well, she is a 81 year old single person living there But also there's been breakings next to the new easels twice and now Professing so it really is an issue of security. The borns were broken into some years ago A person that was on here when jumped on somebody's hood in front of my mom's house A couple of years ago another overdose just up the road. It got out. I went to high school with So there's there's enough time to Expect that an 81 year old woman might not see the lights in our door here As well as I think the police officer came to testify to he was able to hear this Resil Message um and it was not a friendly neighborhood complaint during the day But calling her mean they're saying your polluter your lights are on Sounding pretty hysterical. I think he'll testify to that as well. So it wasn't complaints just the fight It's during the day your lights on why are your lights on three and and I appreciate that there's a lot going on here But we can't take that into account when we make the decision I just I understand what you're saying and I and I appreciate that there's obviously Issues on both sides of this and I you know, I feel sorry that you have to deal with this But we can't really consider that where we make it our decision And that's what I live in California What they do there is they do put these shields around each light and it does Illuminate straight down and when you look at this light that they have it is nice and bright It does illuminate their property very well if they if there was a shield Towards our house That would just block that light coming to that direction There would not be any a block of that downward light because it would definitely Illuminate their driveway and all the way over to that private road that runs in between So it absolutely is a common sense thing. Well, that's all we want I mean, it's not something we don't want the the security to be taken away My mom wants security as well. She lives here by herself most of the time So it's not like, you know, we don't we don't want to take that away at all. It's just When you take into consideration the crime rate in California versus Vermont speaks well to maybe lighting me to get a Being a good idea So does anybody have any more testimony relevant to the actual decision? I do please Two things As a follow-up to mr. Zach Casey I took mr. Casey to task because it seemed to me that mr. Badowski based his decision the four-hour time window On exactly what mr. Casey said and I took him to task on the use of fully shielded and the industry term and how fully shielded is used I asked him specifically and I have an email that he gave me but I can submit his testimony I asked him two questions with only a back shield installed leaving three slides of the light not shielded To you slash gmp still maintained if the light is quote fully shielded He responded This light has a backlight shield that meets green mountain powers current standards So it has this optional backlight installed We prefer to let the berlin zoning for determined if it meets their ordinance was it is exactly 180 degrees from him previously saying yes, it does mean We asked again We have no problem How many houses have a house lamp? It is not a shield around it instead of a bare ball none I think it's a matter of just adjusting How far down this shield comes down So that the your property can be adequately lived for security, but it is not going to Come so that you can see the light I mean The question I was going to ask mr. Bedowski when he did his site visit Was could you see the light? Are you willing to answer that question mr. Bedowski? I mean The answer was yes, you can see the lights so the berlin airport too. Should we shut that all down? If there are just for you guys, I'm just wondering what since there haven't been other complaints from previous neighbors living there I don't think it's fair to have this I'm just wondering if there's something that you could install instead of imposing your wishes on the neighbors Could you install something? Excuse me, because that's what green power I'm not imposing anything, but this is your zoning. Are you a berlin resident? Did you vote for this? Did you vote for this did you okay? I think we need to drill this back in I would Okay, stop stop now In the interest of this is just a suggestion but Is there no I mean it seems as though there's got to be some way that you guys could figure out a way to Fix this problem But if not, I mean obviously we will render a decision on one or the other but this is not going to solve your problems I can tell you that right now, and it seems as though You know some sort of compromise here if there can be one might go a long way for She said that she was going to sell her house several times over. I think that makes a lot of sense She said that all of the neighbors are bad people. I think it makes sense. Okay We've been planting trees We have tried to mitigate we've spent a lot of money Planting trees to try to block that light back the matter is to buy tall trees Exceed no, I'm not talking about putting up a head draw. I mean I just it seems as though working together But that's not that's out of my bailiwick. I just I think I should do does it appear to you that we can work together I mean I I'm called very nicely and said You know that light I am the light that I originally complained about was a canister light So it all the light went everywhere up all around and I couldn't even see the stars I could not and I called and andy said Who do you think you are? Okay, so It's also the spotlights the floodlights that are constantly pointed and when those came over they pointed them down I can reach mine and point mine down too Ultimately they are because floodlights are spoken to in your you're the same way Street any a secure like floodlights have to be pointed downwards so I'm not sure where we're going to go for here, but I think we're going unless there's anything relevant to the actual decision on the floodlight I mean on the light we're going to close the hearing I have one more thing that I think is relevant and it's So when I talk a green mount power about it And I asked them if it was My mom's option to have the shield or not. They said yes, it is they said it's up to the neighbor to provide shape for themselves If they don't like the light, that's how they left it It was funny about that What we discussed the glare I mean that is in the statue what the voters Voted for when you're sitting in the back It is it's exactly like somebody's flashing a led light in your face So we have to huddle close to the as close as we can to the wall if we go any out any further It's like somebody's like right there, and I'm not exaggerating. It's awful. Come see for yourself. I'm glad you are okay I think we have the picture I just want to say we'll be clear that's all I think we have the picture. Um Did you have me I have just Do you um make a decision without us here and then let us know or do you do it? We did the delivery. Yeah Yes, um So I don't think I don't see any But I do wonder whether we should do a site there and any so if we were going to do that would we continue the hearing? Yes, according to your administrative procedures, you can suspend and go do a site visit Yeah, maybe we should do that just instead of closing the hearing just just recess Then we can deliberate whether we need to have a site visit I don't know whether people the rest of the board feels that way and then if for some reason as a result It's like busy that we feel like we need to have more evidence. We could ask for more So wouldn't we have to recess to a date certain all right? Otherwise, yeah, yeah, so Till next is can we do it till the next? We have a meeting on the we do if you go after that, I guess if you Yeah, I believe you do have a term on it for your decision Yeah, but if the hearings recess, then we don't have it's not it's after the hearing is closed So, but are you also saying that if you go and deliver a session and you you deem that you don't want to go out there that See what I'm saying. Yeah, so Well, we can still do we just close on yeah, we can still go to the date certain Yeah, I think what you could do is come out of your deliberate session make a motion to close the hearing If that's what you know if you I would suggest you either At the end of the session you come out and make a motion either to continue it till date certain or close it today People can go out and wait their cars if they want to wait till till you come out of or we can go over into the town You guys know in the town clerk's office and and deliver it want delivery. Well You know, I I think you'd want to come out of it. How do you do that recession? That's fine? I don't think it's So so you're going to go deliberate to so I have a I have a I'll make a motion that we're going to deliver the session All right, I'll second. Okay, motion second and approved. Any discussion? All in favor, all right So not an executive second, it's seven fifteen in the rain Second Discussion all in favor. All right And I'll make another motion that we We recess this hearing And plan a site visit after our meeting on august 20th Second Any discussion all in favor? I So we will add that to the agenda for next time at the end of the meeting Do a site visit and we will not be taking testimony at the site visit We will simply be observing What's there and anyone is welcome to be there, but we won't take testimony. May I have a I have a request You need to see it from my perspective, right? So you would be coming up my driveway Yeah, visit your house and visit their house, okay And then also ask that you come when it's sufficiently dark so you can actually see the glare seven o'clock and so We probably be about this time about this time Okay, because when the light first comes on Okay It's next it's two weeks from today 20th At the end of the we have one application that night, so we'll go after the application So it would probably be about this time home's house. I say we go with adam's house first So then you'll know, yeah, okay You