 Welcome everybody once again to the panel keeping the pace on climate change action. If you're following on Social media, please tweet talk about this. We want to make sure the conversations heard hashtag with 23 let's begin Gasping for breath That's how the UN Secretary General described the Paris climate targets to me this week gasping for breath We've had seven years since the deal was agreed to limit global warming in Paris And we are four years on from when we were all warned here in Davos that our house is on fire prescient to Because since 2022 was the hottest year on record. We saw heatwaves in Europe. Don't worry Drought in Latin America Exactly another flood and wildfires in North Africa Many villages in Pakistan remain submerged from flooding and the search continues for a five-year-old child in California torn from his mother's arms in a raging creek that followed record storms there, too You know, I watched my colleague Larry Medawoo. He was here in Davos actually Report from Nigeria and he was waist deep in water There's too many episodes to recount but suffice to say an estimated 3.3 billion people live in areas of high vulnerability to climate change yet It took a war in Ukraine raging inflation and then a dramatic Energy security crisis and fears to kick start a global response that suddenly seemed to galvanize Decent growth in renewable energy investment, but the truth is and I think we all know it We need to dramatically raise the pace and the scale of that money We need to focus investment in emerging and developing nations that will dominate energy demand in the future And in secretary Kerry speak who doesn't mind me using his words We need money money money and that's not to say that big nations like the United States China Japan Regions like the EU haven't stepped up with tangible support, but the IA chief reminded me again this week We need to quadruple current investment in renewables to four trillion dollars a year by 2030 It feels like a lot, but what if I told you there's a hundred and twenty trillion dollars sitting in pension funds sovereign wealth funds Insurance funds globally are in money in many respects searching for returns if the risks can be minimized or Shared if the opportunities can be clarified Surely Fraction more of that it does mean profound change from business from governments from us as consumers to and Requires diverse forms of scientific indigenous and local knowledge and we have it by the way We just need to listen harder Then there's the question of sincerity There are businesses out there that are simply not walking the walk even as the enthusiastically Talk the talk. How do we wash away the greenwashing that too many firms still hide behind and when it comes to energy How do we decarbonize? Sectors like the oil and gas sector faster finally we as consumers we have to use less energy and rich nations have proved That when prices are high we do that we have to continue to do that even as prices continue to come down The challenges are daunting But there are vast opportunities and you're going to hear about this too the innovation entrepreneurialism Collaboration and yes, even profits. We are in doubles of course Get it right and we could address energy security and sustainable development for many generations to come Enough for me fast-matter minds here. Have all the answers. I promise. Let me introduce our panel Helena Gullinger co-founder of the indigenous youth collective of Amazon defenders Secretary John Kerry special presidential envoy for climate in the United States Jennifer Morgan special envoy for international climate action in Germany Anna Borg President and chief executive officer of that and fall and yes for broden chief executive officer in Kerr group Welcome to our panel. I want to stop by just getting a show of hands and Hopefully We'll see what happens, but we'll come back to this question at the end of the panel Who thinks we will hit the Paris targets to limit global warming to one and a half degree C by 2030 And just to be clear that means peak emissions and then virtually halving them by 2030 hands up if we will hit those targets Okay, I sort of make that six and a half people Okay, remember that number Comments on that secretary Kay six and a half people in the room. You understand the concern. I think you share it Well, I think the question strips away the possibilities We can hit one point five We're not on track to do it now And it's not clear Absolutely clear that we will get on track. I don't know if Jennifer when she raised her hand is talking about Germany alone or the globe I Have more confidence in Germany probably being able to do it. Yes But globally We're heading towards 2.5 somewhere in the high twos right now and We really must turn that around but to turn it around as you said think about it You have One trillion dollars approximately being spent right now in venture capital and new investment, etc But we have to get it up to four and a half every year for the next 30 years We have to right now be deploying the largest solar field in the world every day for the next Years in order to hit the one point five We have to be deploying renewables six times faster than we are today I know that in our country We've got to pass a permitting bill before we can do that because you can't make a sighting And it can't take ten years to distribute this stuff. So yes, we can do this but there's not yet the kind of Commitment broadly that is necessary to make it happen. I'm almost a collective will as if we were at war And and ready to turn factories into solar panel producers and so forth. I think some of that's what we need and But I am hugely Encouraged I mean much more so than I've been at any time in the last years by what is happening right now Which opens up an even greater possibility of achieving this because? So much energy is going into human energy is going into the new technologies and These things the innovations that are occurring are going to multiply and magnify on themselves And so I really think you know we're the fact that the IEA came out and said if we Fulfill all the promises that were made in Glasgow We would be at 1.8 degrees by 2050 and if we fulfill all the promises added on in Sharma shake We would be at 1.7. So it's heading in the right direction when we began this exercise It was going from three to three point five three point seven. So we have turned this corner We have moved in the right direction and now the question is will we do the things we need to do to abate? Emissions this is not complicated Our enemy our emissions and we have to go after the emissions and therefore cannot afford to build out a whole new Infrastructure of one fossil fuel or another that is going to be with us for 20 30 40 years Unless they are able to capture those emissions. We don't have that indication yet or even that full capacity Yeah, and there were a lot of ifs in there as well as we look ahead to some of the plans Yes, but your hand was Was down despite your efforts talk to me about about your view because I think my hand was up. Yes It was hidden. Oh my goodness seven and a half. I felt so lonely. Sorry about that. They were isolated Okay, you're gonna have to wait then because I want I want someone on in fact. No, go on Okay, why? Well, I thought to myself what I've had and raising my hand to that quest I think it's a lovely question to ask but I I thought about getting married when the question was will you love each other for the Rest of your life and the answer of course has to be yes at that moment, but then there the topic is Because I'm here So if I started to It would feel wrong from a leadership perspective, but if you if you ask me what what the question is I think you lie. It is a how question. I was a lie. No, but to say that for me, it's it's really and I'm fully With you as a commissioner Kerry We the optimism is that we have started to close the gap There is optimism in so many movements that I see and I wish I could Share with all of us because I see I truly see the solution coming. Are we there? No, we're not there But I think the question is rather how do we get to it because 1.5 is not the target many people think is a target It's a planetary limit So therefore I think the question in itself almost invites to doubt it Right now we need to commit to it and we need to commit to the gaps and closing them It's a matter of existentialism for humankind. So therefore I raised my hand. Sorry. Yeah, no You don't have to apologize. You have to tell the truth though Anna come in here because you believe this can be done in one generation That's what you're committed to and you said look we can do this But we have to jumpstart investment and I think at the crux of all of this and it goes back to the point about money Talk to me about your thoughts here No, but I think that With the effects of global warming and the need to reduce CO2 But also with all the fossil free technology development that is now happening I think that as a leader of a business You clearly see how the market prerequisites have changed massively And I think that's a driving force that we have not sort of untapped the Potential of yet and that is also why I clearly state that our Sort of business strategy to enable a fossil free living within one generation is exactly that It's our business strategy because if we are going to be If we are going to be competitive and be able to capture these business opportunities We have to move there and in in addition. It's actually much more Risky or costly to not move than to move in this direction And I think that if you really look at this from a business prerequisite perspective You clearly see that and that movement has not fully developed yet I love that idea the cost actually a far greater than what we're arguing over not be willing to spend or do today Jennifer you're half so I feel like you're sort of in yes this camp. Well, you're like must say yes Not sure talk to me about your position. Well, I think you know you you Noted all of the horrific impacts that happen are happening. That's not going to go away right and so the pressure on Companies on governments also from youth. We have a very active youth movement in Germany and around the world who are incredibly important That's not going away. So the technology is there the The the recognition of the science is there the costs are slowly getting incorporated in And I just think you know, even if you want to wish that it's you know, those that don't want to go in that direction I don't think there's going to be much choice because I think the instability that will continue to be created by these impacts real instability for people deaths for people and Ecosystems are going to keep that pressure up and I think and that's needed to have that pressure up Is it immensely challenging will we get there? I don't know am I petrified that we won't Absolutely because of what it means And therefore we're doing everything that we can to keep it in sight But I just think this question always is about the cost of action and all of these other things And it's not taking into account the national security implications The instability that are there the impacts the lives that are just going to make it harder to not Take the decisions that need to be made Helen. I left you to last on purpose Primarily because you created a flood behind us on purpose and perhaps I Think you have to give us the perspective the reality the fear I think and The life cost the human cost of what we're fighting here How concerned are you and how sure are you that will either miss or not these targets? And what does it mean from a human perspective? Yeah I think that first of all, it's it's really important to address and Secretary Kerry it just addresses in the beginning We are not on pace on Climate we have to pick up the pace on claim. We're going completely in the wrong direction And it's something that we are feeling on the ground. I've I mean my community was washed away by floods Only two two and a half years ago devastating impacts on on my community And I come from an indigenous community in the Amazon rainforest and I think many times when we were in these spaces We're talking about cutting emissions. We're talking about how You know these all these clever calculations of how we are going to cut carbon emissions but really indigenous people have been facing that the been on the front line of The extractive industries for decades now. I mean I have neighboring communities that live in That have oil and the in the in their water because of what the oil industry did in their communities And now we have them causing this global issue of climate change and I mean emissions are not going to be cut if we don't Actually keep fossil fuel underground. Let's begin with actually attacking the root cause of it We can talk about cutting emissions all we want and come up with clever You know calculations and and do it on paper, but if we don't keep Fossil fuel underground we will not meet 1.5 And if we look at the state of the world at what is it one point around 1.2 right now It's already devastating look at what happened in Pakistan an entire country. That's been washed away I Think that we're I mean Right now we're I kind of hear a lot of talking about that that the green hushing instead of green washing and I found that a really interesting conversation here how Companies are now Kind of taking back their commitments or holding their tongue because they don't want to commit too much because of the state of the world, right? But we are not treating the crisis as for example that the you know the energy crisis in Europe that is now fueling the kind of Making countries justify a new coal mine in in Germany We're not treating that crisis in Pakistan Equivalently to what's happening in Europe and if you think about it our communities have been facing natural disasters for decades Right, and it's only been exacerbated in the last couple of years Oh, you know what you've given me so much material there the question is I can go to secretary Kerry on keeping oil and gas in the ground Rather than taking perhaps emissions because I think part of the reality is and the IA said this even if we hit the Paris climate Targets around half of our energy needs are still going to come from fossil fuels even by 2040 That's the reality we face or I could go to Germany and talk about coal And I know Germany said that look we're still gonna hit the targets for for 2025 But it's tough to say to other nations Hey, you know get your house in order when things are going in the wrong direction energy security irrespective So let's go there. Let's talk about this But also with a prism I think as well of what's just been done in the United States with subsidies to fuel the technology to tackle this and the sort of concerted concerned response in Europe Secretary Kerry Which one good question my friend you get to choose You could talk about the IRA afterwards Fatih Birol of the IEA Makes it very clear that if we wanted to We can achieve the 45% minimum reduction the scientists have told us we must achieve by 2030 we could achieve it Just by deploying renewables, right not by opening up new fossil fuel projects So There's a fair amount of momentum obviously in the marketplace and in some very powerful businesses to continue business as usual I also think we have to be honest about the other side of that ledger Which is we will continue to have Gas particularly some oil because they're used in different kinds of products and It's therefore they will be drilled and the issue is how do we use them? Gas per se sitting in a tank is not a problem as long as the process of extracting it was green Which it isn't usually But if it is it's not the gas alone sitting there. That's the problem. It's how we use it. It's the burning of it It's the byproduct of it and Until we can capture those byproducts There's a certain responsibility that will fall on that industry to live up to the obligations that we've all agreed on But you agree they need pushing harder. I suppose they're your partner. They need pushing harder Absolutely need to come to table and be partners in this effort because we can't get there if if those practices aren't changed That's part of the doubt about where we're going. Will we capture emissions? You know gas is an automatic 30 to 50 percent reduction in emissions just because it's gas It's cleaner than oil and gold particularly But once you burn it you're still putting emissions up which if we're going to get to net negative by 2050 Even after the 2030 which we could achieve with only the renewables You're still going to have to be reducing emissions at a fairly steep curve now There's a lot of work being done in CC us carbon capture utilization and storage. There's a lot of work happening in battery Longer-term storage in green hydrogen and it may well be And here the gas oil industry better watch out in the sense that The marketplace going to decide this and if the price keeps going where it's going in these new technologies They're going to be priced out of it and that's why a lot of them are now doing R&D and developing in Alternative renewable and other possibilities. So it's just not a it's not a simple kind of answer Except to say that we could be doing a much better job of Holding people to a tough standard on the emissions because the emissions are what are taking us in the wrong path Target the emissions that and cold coal in Asia particularly. There's too much coal Some new coal is being brought online today. This that's just not You know shouldn't be allowed it is allowed It's going to happen in a number of countries because that's all they have it's the only way they keep their economies going So we have to have an accelerated effort to guarantee we're abating and moving we cut the deal with Indonesia last year the jet P We will be closing down some coal. We will be deploying additional renewables But there's still too much coal and and to meet the curve We got to go on of decline in emissions. We've got to be reducing coal at a faster rate When do you cut the deal with China? We're working on it. Okay Yes, but you were giving me the look do you want to make a comment here? No, I just think you know first of all I think it's it's really not a race against technology I would even argue not against finding capital. It's it's against the clock So we were late in realizing what we have done and what we are so I think back to telling us witnessing that the Whatever we do even in the best scenario we will pay the price for Previous generations ignorance and our own generation as well. So I think it's all about the race against time I see with optimism from our own value chain in IKEA where we have invested billions more than three billions into renewable wind solar and a few years ago It was debated if that was smart today. I don't think anybody's Debating that and I wish we would have been even faster in in deploying our plants So there's a lot of I think Reaffirming of that. We are on the right track. We have the medicine and we can free ourselves from carbon But as much as I would love to come back to the discussion on how do we? address the Issue of bringing up more carbon from the ground How do we deal with that and how do we at the same time double up on? Investments for a new world because we know what the recipe is and then of course to Helena's point So we need to spend much more time in realizing the cost and the actions that connect connecting to you know Basically dealing with the consequences and adapting. Yeah, I have to say they're listening to that I don't worry about the ignorance in in our generation and generations past when these guys Are in charge. I don't worry about that We just got to protect the planet and improve the situation to let until they get there Anna And yes Jennifer and you you know, but I very much agree with Jesper That both the technology the knowledge and the capital is actually there The question is what do we do with it? And how can we work in several dimensions dimensions at the same time collectively? Yes, and maybe just to give a few examples on how we do that from a business perspective I mean first of all, we of course transform our own business in our own asset portfolio Facing out the fossil part of our business And making sure that we increase the investments into fossil-free technologies And we're mainly doing that by being one of the main offshore developers of wind in Europe But we're also looking into investments of of nuclear and I think we need all fossil-free technologies to sort of manage this But but then I think it's important to look at it from a business Sustainability point of view because as a business you need to be sustainable financially need to be profitable In order to do good business But you also need to be sustainable from a climate perspective to me It's not you know either or so we are committed to be in line with a one and a half degree I director of the Paris Agreement We have committed to be net zero by 2040 not only in our own business But in all parts of the value same chain scope one two and three And I think that that also of course includes biodiversity and other aspects of of sustainability And I think the third thing that I would like to spend just one minute on is that we are looking in through How to develop new business models together with industries that are emitting a lot of CO2 today? Because I think that if you look at the business models end-to-end and maybe not the way they look today You can actually accomplish a lot. We do for example fossil-free steel together with SSAB and LKB It's already there. It's working. It's on the market, but it needs scaling up We do a pilot project on sustainable aviation fuel together with a shell Scandinavian Airlines and Lansatek Where we use captured carbon and green hydrogen in order to produce Electrophills and we do similar things in cement and plastic And I think then you can sort of unleash entire value chains rather than only looking at your other business But do profitable business growth at the same time. It's such a great point It can't be the core business this cannot overtake the core business because you have to be a viable business first and this has to Be adopted and almost automatic. It has to be integrated with it Yeah, it does it has to be synonymous, but it can't like I say it can't be the core business Otherwise, that's what I hear from the business community all the time It's like how do we balance the two and make them synonymous in that respect? I was gonna ask you a question. Did they come to you very briefly or are you going to them? Are they coming to you and saying look help us we need to fix this You mean the this industry It differs in different areas. So when it comes to the steel it was the steel company who had an idea And they sort of search sparring partners in order how to make that work in reality And when it came to the sustainable aviation fuel, it's what's more on our initiative. So it differs funny That's what happens when you meet in for us like this and can have good conversations Yeah, people get ideas. Yeah, and those things grow and Jennifer you wanted to come in so we have the cold situation We have the cold question Lots of different things. I'm happy to talk about that. I also was kind of responding to this You know we can we can rest easy because we have people young people who are now active and and for me It's our generation that has to take the action. Yeah, not rest easy But yeah, you know give it give us give them a few years. No, I know but but we don't have No, but we have to give them a planet to hand over to you know to hand over to them Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that we could wrestle on the laurels. No Yeah, just to clarify so, I mean, I think just on the on what's happening in Germany. I think Look what what the Russian war of aggression did was it was a huge wake-up call About number one dependency on one country for so many of your energy and number two a dependency on fossil fuels and The risks that come with that and so what Germany has been doing is phasing out our Imports of Russian fossil fuels and in order to then meet our energy needs We started with the largest renewable energy bill in our history 80% renewables by 2030 will come online and not only that but also looking at these questions that Secretary Kerry was raising about permitting so also moving from seven to two years so that you can actually move that forward Those are tough questions and the implementation of of the renewable energy Future we also are working on energy efficiency law We've put you know had to find other partners like Norway and And certainly the Netherlands in importing gas We will import less gas at the end of this and have an earlier phase out of fossil fuel fuels Then before the Russian war of aggression We also because of The war had to had to have some coal fired power plants in reserve, which is an incredibly painful decision to make But our coal phase out North Rhine was failure will be 2030 working on 2030 in the east Four villages were saved one was not incredibly difficult situation incredibly difficult Understand I completely the the frustration and of youth And for me it's a signal. I think not just for Germany, but if you have that level of engagement From young people That's not going away either and to me as a decision maker Those voices we talk about vulnerable communities we talk about that both in our country That's often youth and we actually have a supreme court finding in Germany That found in favor of youth that we had to reduce emissions sooner Therefore the 2045 greenhouse gas binding target. So we're on the case. We've had to make some very difficult decisions I have confidence. I think minister Habeck has that will get there also on climate I think what Germany has been through in the middle of this crisis on energy and what we thought we might be seeing last summer And where we are now which is in a stable situation Working on climate and energy security gives me some security that we can also do that as a society on climate Because we had to take care of the low-income Population we had to make sure that that is there and and that's a societal conversation that we need to be having with business But also with youth with with elderly with the whole Society that's the conversation that's needed concerted industrial policy government policy matching and working together. Yes, but No, I just wanted to build on what Jennifer was speaking about. I think I think one of the Challenges and maybe the myth is also that we need to bust this when it comes to people the many people out there So we know from from affecting our research in Ikea and it's been verified by other institutes as well That the concern which is a good thing that the global concern is on a very high level It doesn't matter if you go to China if you go to Sweden if you go to the US the concern for climate This is out there seven out of ten in our statistics are deeply concerned then comes an interesting And sometimes maybe worry in fact how many are prepared to pay for The shift we need to do and in our research. It's three percent I heard BCG referred three to nine percent So maybe that reflects also our customer group and the common misunderstanding here is that people don't care But it's wrong people simple don't simply don't have the money So they expect us as government leaders as corporate leaders of course to solve it if you're a single mother living in 55 square meters trying to figure out life. Maybe you work double shifts, etc Obviously, it's the wrong thinking for us to think that to invite you to be part of to prepare premium And here I think comes even if it's difficult in reality in certain aspects in general We have to believe that wasteful use of resources is costly Smart use of resources whether it's energy whether it's material. It must be smart from a cost perspective So I think what I'm trying to really work with is in order to get there in time Which was your first question. We need to tie it to the new economy We need to transform my economy and there we know today. We can do a lot corporate community We can do a lot you do a lot But to a certain extent we also need a totally different collaboration with the leaders of Policymakers basically around the world help us shift subsidies to the right places Incentivize and make us move faster and it will happen. I mean, we know the demand growth in the coming decades It's all going to be in emerging developing markets and The Western world the richer nations may be saying in certain cases. They don't have the money Well, we need to flood them with money, too We'll come back to that point as well Jennifer. I know you just wanted to make a point there very quickly just a quick one I mean, I I totally agree and I think that is in the hand That's why we need a social ecological transformation And I think that there are very real conversations now with countries developing countries That's where the finance question comes in reforming the international financial institutions to create a different alternative economic pathway there and countries who are here from developing countries are Open they want it. They don't want an extractivist economy anymore Secretary Kerry, we just talked about this on television about the idea of and it's got to come down to the IMF and the World Bank ultimately just on this point and the idea that the shareholders need to have a conversation and an understanding that They have to perhaps Accept more risk. They have to accept with that risk comes loss in order to work with the private sector and get more Private sector money into emerging markets to developing nations to develop technologies and the upside there is there may be profits, too Let's be clear start-ups the technologies that we've been talking about are the biggest shareholders of the likes of the World Bank and the IMF to Jennifer's point here ready to take a little bit more risk and accept that that might mean some losses and Also some profits. Let's be clear, too. Are they ready? Absolutely. I think they're hungry in patient and I think they will be Considerable dialogue about this and effort made over the course of the next few months the spring meetings of the bank or in April The World Bank and the banks come together in Washington We are the largest shareholder the United States, but our other Sister and brother shareholders are critical in Germany France Britain UK Italy Spain and so forth I think every single one of them that I've talked to is really impatient to get reform because that reform Which will not require Profound change in the charter. It will not take away their triple-a rating It has the ability if you follow the rules, but do it the right way to Significantly increase the amount of money that is available for concessional lending, but but let me let me just point out something here So people understand This connection when I say money money money money I heard myself being quoted yesterday and I said God I sound like Gordon Keco and Wall Street or something I actually sang it today like an Abbas song, but But look here here here's the reality You have big financial institutions. They play my rules all around the world different someplace, but they play my rules They also have clients. I mean the money BlackRock has for instance is vast majority is owned by individuals by entities and They want that money treated in a certain way and everybody has a fiduciary Responsibility those who manage money or invest money and you can't just throw it away And nor will they allow that to happen competitively between them So you have to find a way to be able to motivate that money to see the virtue of Investing in one of these slightly riskier conceivable, but not not all together So Let's look at the other side of the ledger You have countries in Africa that desperately want to be able to do better by their citizens And they want to be able to provide them energy. They want to create jobs But to do that they have to develop and this is a fundamental development challenge, which is historically understandable You don't have a revenue stream. You can't go to the market. So you have to find cheap money You have to find money. That's either giveaway money philanthropy money or Budget money from Germany, which is quite incredible put amazing money last year into the deal with Egypt Couldn't have done it without Germany saying we're gonna put up, you know hundred billion euro and and Not hundred billion. It was excuse me one day. We bought one over was a hundred million Hundred million that combined with others to get to about five hundred and that leveraged That gives you the ability to de-risk the deal because those entities can take the first losses Which allows the people managing the money or owners of the buddies to say, okay? We can do this now. We're not going to be in last in line for repayment We may even be first in line depending on how you structure it So this is the the magic that we need is to unleash those trillions of dollars that are looking for good investments But they're looking for bankable investments and and there's a distinction here So with the combination of blended finance, you have public money philanthropy money Money that may be concessionary and we're talking about that like the World Bank Center And you add that to the larger sum of money that will actually make the deal happen Which can make money and and so if you have a 25-year PPA power purchase agreement at a certain tariff that may increase with inflation or whatever You can invest in that and pension funds can feel safe investing in that and there are plenty of kinds of deals that produce that revenue Producing transportation for instance you pay for transportation water treatment facility pay for the water in certain places Electricity you pay for the electricity So any of those revenue streams that we could now harness the energy of that motive to make some money to feel safe That's how we will accelerate this this operation and we're trying very very hard to Find ways to augment that pool of money that can leverage the other money. You can get a billion dollars. Let's say Leveraged that can be six seven to ten billion dollars, which you then are investing to create this transformation So this is doable no question in my mind. We're working on a new structure where where it called the ETA, which is a Accelerated and emissions transition accelerator, which would allow a company to actually buy a credit Particularly important right now because some companies have been really good actors And they've gotten to about eighty eighty five ninety percent of scope one, but they can't do the last ten percent Why because there aren't enough electric vehicles to purchase or there aren't there isn't a smart grid to be able to take part in So until that happens you don't want to lose those people from being able to be part of this transition So if you could let them buy a credit temporarily for a number of years only for the purpose of Reducing those coal emissions or their fossil fuel emissions and deploying renewables. That's a virtuous. I've been environmentalist all my life I opposed them when they were not thought out and there weren't any guardrails But it's possible to do this in a way that gets you some cash Which you then use to leverage further reductions while you're bringing the other things online that help those companies to be You know Fully performing this is the hallelujah moment because this is how you get from a to be in my mind because you scale the money That is available and I hope we get to the point where there's too much money and too few products And we're like where can we put this money because I think that would be the ultimate first-class problem We're gonna come back to this in a second because Eleanor I want to ask you what you think because this is something that could be incredibly Transformative does this give you more hope and confidence? And be honest if the answers no, it's okay Yeah, I think that when I hear a lot of these conversations I think you know It's a very business first and then we'll deal with climate and then we'll deal with By biodiversity laws and as a secondary consequence who will might save the planet and that needs to be reversed First comes life first comes planet. You can do whatever you want after that. Can they come all together and dairy? Well, it flows on money. I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that yet. I've only seen You know profit be being prioritized above a healthy planet and and the well-being of people And I think it's something that the head of the UN said this morning was that you know The the business model is is is not inclined with the survival of humanity and that's something that he said in this very forum this this morning and You know Putting business first is exactly what has led us to the point that we're we're at right now And and I think that you know, especially coming from the Amazon rainforest We have thousands of hectares of pristine rainforest and they only ask that we have Is to let the forest stay upright let's let the forest stay standing that is the most simple Solution that we can find we find that solution in nature. It's already there and the technology. It's great But it's not a priority. It's not what's going to solve the climate crisis It's not what's going to solve all these issues that we're facing on the ground And I think that in this very building we have people that are enabling that those crimes against humanity and against planet and and you know, let's I guess like Let's not get confused here. We're we're talking about not expanding on fossil fuels We're talking about not continuing to enable new new fossil fuel development. That's what we're asking We don't want any new oil wells. We don't want any new coal mines. We don't want anything any new fossil fuel development. I mean the Existing reservoirs they are there and there's not much we can do about it But for myself and for the next generation We don't want to to have you know We cannot allow to see decisions being made that is furthering the development of the fossil fuel industry and this is going to lead to huge consequences on the ground Or we're already seeing that when I walk in these hallways when I'm sitting in these spaces We really lack the sense of urgency on the ground. We really really really need to see it that way and and You know, it's it really comes up to you know really strong and and ambitious Leadership and decision-making boldness. I'll defend business in one respect in that I know a lot of CEOs who and this entire panel quite frankly as well who care deeply and put a lot of money into Philanthropy in trying to continue to hire more people and create jobs and business has Responsibilities and ways that they don't fulfill, but they also do a lot of good things and keep the economy moving And I did have a one CEO. I will say say to me today the biggest and best technology ever formed for carbon capture is a tree Please protect the Amazon rainforest to your point there and I think it's an important point It doesn't solve the entire problem though because what we need is standing for us We don't is it the planting trees is a good initiative But what we need to do is keeping you know pristine rainforests that has entire ecosystems alive and we're talking about biodiversity And that's what needs to be at the center of the agenda. I think these conversations are really important They are really, you know essential But we really need to be targeting and we need to be talking looking at the bigger pictures of the main issues and what we Actually need to be solving. I'm gonna take you at your words and say, okay Let's put all the focus now on renewable technologies renewable energies and Secretary Kerry you and I talked the last time in Davos in May and I tried to say to you promise me You'll get a deal done and you couldn't make a promise, but you did it And I think the United States needs congratulating for that to such an extent that the the Europeans are complaining And there is an irony there in that they were complaining about Donald Trump several years ago pulling the United States out of the the Parastreaty and now the complaining when you actually do something about it and Feel like it's the way complainers beyond the second one was complaining I Understand honestly, I think Jennifer would tell you and and President Biden would tell you Where there are some Concerns we want to try to work with our friends to work through those concerns But writ large taking out one provision here or there that may affect automobiles or one thing or another The basics of the legislation are exactly what we need and it's going to have a profound And it's already having a profound impact because it's providing incentives to go out and do the discovery and do the R&D and deploy these new technologies and and You know, I think our point of view is we need more of it We need you know Europe already spends an enormous amount of money But let's go folks all of us need to be doing even more frankly We wanted to do more than what we've already done in the inflation act, which is extraordinary President Biden started at a trillion plus. That's a 369. It's actually going to be a lot more than that Because it's not it's not amount so You know conscribed it's it's how many how many people qualify for the tax credit So you could go up to 800 billion conceivably that's going to kick things into gear Jennifer very quickly Europe do more stop complaining to yes this point. I didn't see that. Well, first of all, we have US legislation on climate Congratulations, it's incredibly important and that is something to celebrate In a major way and I think I fully share we're working it through And I think you see also a lot of collaboration on technology on standards between Europe and and the US and Yeah game on We talked about a race to the bottom though in terms of emissions rather than anything else Seriously, I think There's the vandaline made an important speech yesterday. I mean Moving and I think that's this this issue of needing collaboration and ways of collaborating also on things like a bioecological bioeconomy which you know That is good for indigenous peoples and and local communities But then also the competition that drives things forward pace and scale of change We need it. Yeah, healthy competition Anna needs to be fair, but it'll be Yeah, I would like to emphasize three things because I think that a lot of the solutions are there and a lot of things are in the Motion and I think that we're sometimes forgetting that so the question is how can we get the pace up? Yes, because the pace is definitely not where it need to be And I think in order to do that We need to be both short-term and long-term at the same time And I would like to take the European I need a crisis and as as an example here Because of course we are in the situation where we need to make sure that people can afford to Heat their homes or run their store or their bakery or their business But we also need to be long-term in terms of the Transformation that we need to do because the root cause of the problem is a fundamental gap between demand and supply And there is a demand for a lot of fossil-free Technologies and the first numerous coalition that secretary carries one of the initiators of is one very clear example of that But what we need is now a lot more supply of fossil-free energy production in order to be able to be competitive going forward and I think there's a lot of good ideas in In the European Union but but also on national level, but I don't think that the implementation is fast enough so I think that there needs to be a Stimulation of investments a regulatory stimulation of investments rather than sort of hampering them because we need a lot more of this fossil-free Technology, I mean we are we are building additional offshore wind power additional nuclear Additional battery storages et cetera, and we need more of that, but we need it much much faster Are you saying too much red tape you need to get way too much red tape and it doesn't only go for energy generation It goes for distribution of energy, and it goes for industry decarbonization, and I think that it's not about for me It's very important that it's not about being profitable or sustainable I think it's impossible as a company in the future to be competitive unless you are sustainable from a climate perspective and I think that it's Perfectly possible to live a modern and comfortable life with a sustainable footprint And I think it's up to us in the business community to really offer attractive and Fordable affordable customer propositions to enable that that turns it on its head to go from a conversation Where it's like it's gonna make me less profitable to be more sustainable to being an essential tool to be profitable And to be a viable business if you're not doing this Yes, but you're the one of the chairs of the weft climate alliance and you were asked several years ago to do this and you said No, despite your morals your views And then it changed talk to me about the evolution of the conversations that you're having with the private sector because I do Want to talk about greenwashing? Greenwashing tree hugging actually we'll come back to that as well. So I told you that in Private Maybe I will Have to say one thing. I think it's to say What what what you share is what's right? So until we close the gap to 1.5 degrees, you're right And you're right was after because of course we are learning as we go along that it's not enough only to dress energy It's about materials. It's about Nature is about people so in a way you can say as we are progressing, of course, there are new insights new Hinders new surprises along the way, and I'm sure that's gonna continue But the the so the story in my case was I I was curious to learn from the weft climate alliance And I decided not to be be part of it because there was no commitment and there was no Agenda and these are this is a couple of years ago And then the the question was if if we would change that would that be interesting and then of course It's hard to say no, and it's an incredibly source of inspiration to me to see a group of CEOs that are today 127 CEOs if you if you Basically if you bundle the carbon footprint of that group of leaders Would it be a country would be the third biggest in the world? So then you say of course that's an issue, but here it is This is a group of voluntary leaders So I've decided to be climate leaders who are either committed to Paris on the way Not only to make a commitment, but actually to do the plans and today We had discussions around how nothing else only on how do we break through how what are the barriers? We need to move how do we meet up with policy makers? What type of investments do we need to make so that gives me a lot of hope that We haven't yet seen the momentum for all the things that are actually being planned And I would say the general sentiment is the biggest risk today is not to Jump on the train of the transformation, which is of course risky for any venture The biggest risk is to be left on the platform Because you will not only lose out of the economic benefits You will lose out from a taxation point of view I'm sure but you're gonna lose out from a brand from a Recruitment of people and in the end of the day looking yourself in the mirror also So I think if anyone is still on the platform is time to get on the train and doing so You don't have all the answers So if if Helena would ask me questions that would come to point us I don't know I don't have the answers, but I'm willing to take the You know the challenge and the responsibility To make sure we close the gap and get to one point a leap of faith because that's to be a lot of that And that's always the case. Yes life. You take risks. That's what businesses and business leaders do Yeah, and also had you said yes without there being any commitment that would have been Greenwashing in my case as well. So I think it's a credit to you to say What is this going to represent and what is this going to do? And then I'll jump on board and not be left on the platform or buys first So once I know we're actually going to achieve something secretary Kerry Can I ask you about this role of government private sector? Engaging it's pacing on this as well because the message we're hearing is for the most part I think there are corporates out there that want to do more. It's not a lot in ignorance It's a in some ways. I think a lack of information a fear factor of the red tape the amount of paperwork the amount of numbers hiring that we have to do in a Slowdown an economic slowdown kind of environment How do we get above that concern for the private sector that this is going to represent a huge burden that quite frankly I don't have time for because there is still this gap There is no there is a gap to it. You're absolutely correct and bureaucracy is the enemy of all of us We we don't have time to do business as usual So we've got to break through and good governance has got to step up and provide the framework within which you're Certainly protecting the the interests of your citizens at large But you're also facilitating the ability of business to deploy its capital and to make things happen here You as I said earlier you cannot take ten years with endless litigation to decide whether or not you're going to deploy a Wind farm in a place where it obviously makes sense and where other people are deploying in some way so But government, you know, there's a partnership here. We I think we've In for the most part and parts of the world governance has improved in the last 15 20 25 years There are places where it hasn't And and they are being left behind I mean that is the problem for them one of the reasons that certain parts of the world have not been developed is you have a combination of political risk and currency risk and governance risk Regulatory risk all of which combine to say to somebody who wants to deploy their capital. I'm just not going to do it there It's too risky And and I know there's a sensitivity in many quarters Of an impatience about you know that kind of reality, but it is a reality I mean, you know Winston Churchill said democracy is the worst form of government except for everything else And that's kind of the world we look at today So it's not perfect. It's never really going to be perfect, but you've got to work out the best you can I think it's remarkable what we're doing today. I think we're moving at a much faster speed But we need government. I mean for instance what the what the US did with the inflation reduction act was basically Create a framework which invited people to use their capital in certain ways didn't tell them they had to didn't pick winners Didn't pick losers, but created a production tax credit investment tax credit And people can go out and do their thing and compete in the marketplace But you've got to facilitate that on the other hand I've come to believe after the years I've been in public service and when I left being secretary of state I was convinced no government is going to solve this problem Let's understand that No government has enough money to plug those trillions and do what we have to do so like it or not We must find a way to create the incentives that bring the private sector to the table This is a partnership that must be played out in order to win And and I believe the private sector is ultimately going to do so I've met a bunch of young entrepreneurs who are doing amazing things in startups They're taking risk their investors are taking risk and they're producing new batteries that may have a longer life That allows you to balance your entire grid I've seen folks who are chasing green hydrogen people who are Putting together. I mean look at the people who've been working on fusion for years Talk about taking risk. I can remember when I went to the Senate in the 1980s And and we have a big fusion program Massachusetts. It's still going and it's now one of the lead ones it's a commonwealth fusion at MIT and they've had a breakthrough but Other than some federal money that's been put in there a lot of people risk their money and put it there because they believe all the Middle they're going to have a product that can produce revenue and you make some money. So The the private sector is absolutely key to our ability to be able to win this battle And the private sector is going to produce green hydrogen or and and now we've created incentives to help make that happen So I really feel more confident about the direction we're moving it the marketplace of the world is moving folks You ought to get excited about this. This is going to be the biggest transformation economically Since the industrial original industrial revolution absolutely Four and a half five billion users of energy in the world today That's going to go up to nine to ten billion in the next 30 years people are going to demand electricity power service heat comfort and So this is a marketplace and it's it has the ability to be able to move very very rapidly I think if we will create the right framework and unleash Private sector ingenuity and innovation and capacity to get this done And also this doesn't happen without China being on board by the way, but you told me you're working on a deal with them So I'm going to China is essential. We don't get there without China reducing emissions and being part of this But I believe I think something is in transition and that might have you've made a promise now So I'm going to hold you accountable. We have two minutes left Jennifer. I knew you wanted to say something Can you do it in like 15 seconds? I can because yes, we need the frameworks And so we need the policy frameworks And so I am impatient because I think companies if they're frustrated with process They need to engage in fixing it right and so the policy makers that are there who will testify on the floor of the Senate who will be in the Parliament who will get the the policies passed to create those frameworks That is essential to get that working together because then you can move the money into the space But not every company is there. Okay, the right thing happened. Okay. I want to show of hands Who believes that we will hit the Paris targets or at least can I catch this is a little bit more optimistic when We came into the room at the beginning show of hands Even if you're lying to me, I love it Congratulations guys give us another hour I'm ready for it One one and a half minutes left go on and I think you tell us why we should care because Secretary Kerry did make a very important point Earlier and we're from that was that talking about this to the outside world. You're a tree hugger You're a crazy liberal. There's still this perception that somehow too many people in the world aren't on board with the The need to tackle this and I think you're the most passionate of Everybody here about doing this give us the reason give the non-belief is the reason for why we have to protect our planet Yeah, and I think you got one minute And then I spill some water as the probably only person on this panel born on the 21st century it's great to have the last word This generation deserves it I think I Mean right we're talking about solutions right and where I was I was I was talking about you know How we the only thing we want is a living forest a standing forest and indigenous people have been the People that have been protecting these forests. It's a it's a It's a great contribution that needs to be recognized in every single space because if we ignore that We will seem you know continuous Human rights violations in indigenous communities the same communities that are on the front lines of climate change the same communities That are on the front lines of the extractive industries the same communities that are making the biggest contribution in climate mitigation And and what is it that actually makes indigenous communities do this work? It's it's not business. It's not you know investments It's not everything that we've spoken about here. It's it's a mindset It's a it's a relationship with nature and that conversation is essential in this because if we don't integrate that into this conversation Then we're losing you know Direction in my community. We call it the living for us. We see everything in the forest as a living being It's a relationship of mutual respect And and in a non extractive And and and this is why we have been concert You know why we have dedicated our lives to the protection of the Amazon rainforest and that's why when we're talking about climate We need to make sure that indigenous people are at the center of decision-making We need to make sure that we're there from the beginning to the end and not through consultation processes not through you know Some vague participation it needs to be at the center of Solution and we don't see that today. We don't see that direction to where we should be going today Can I give you some can I give you I'll just and I mean we're ending right now, but we kind of But I'll just add this and please do after that And I think that I mean The urgency of The youth we put it together in the letter Greta Vanessa and Louisa and I urging oil CEOs to face out of fossil fuel, you know Immediately and where we're here at Davos to deliver that and it's it's it's we have almost we launched it a few days ago We have over nine hundred thousand signatures that are supporting it in a matter of days It shows, you know that the commitment of civil society It shows a commitment of youth and where we want to be going and I actually want to end this with with and ask of The climate and voice I'm sharing this panel with You know that IA the IPCC the secretary general has been urging every single decision maker in the world to you know To commit to no new fossil fuels No new fossil fuel Exploration and yet these decisions are being made, you know when in completely ignoring that this Pledge almost from younger generations. It's it's almost, you know We've been advocating for it for years and we're still going into the wrong right direction Can we walk out with the successful Davos and actually say this is the commitment? We have we will not explore new fossil fuel. Is that a commitment that you can make to this new generation? We do get lost its practicalities versus passion and love and The heart of what we're trying to protect here in the planet secretary Kerry. I'm breaking all the rules No, I want to be really quick Look, I love and respect Your passion and your voice is really critical in this but I want you to know that today I Met with your environment minister of Brazil newly appointed by president Lula. We talked with Marina Silver about the forest How we will have a different a new approach President Lula is coming to Washington in a few days. I am going down after that We're going to be going into the forest. We're going to be Putting together with Indonesia and with the DRC, which has the Congo Basin an entirely new approach tomorrow We're having a meeting with all of those players Indonesia Brazil and my co-chair of a new entity called the forest the the forest Protection partnership make sure it includes Ecuador my country also and we are we are going to be all Inclusive and we are going to try to come up To save all of those great basins With a new approach an entirely new approach and Ghana The minister from Ghana minister Jennifer is my co-chair of this new entity This partnership and I think you're going to see a renewed effort Which I hope will give people some faith and by the way a lot of businesses are stepping up and saying We're going to put money into this effort to save the forest We know there are 25 million people there who are indigenous who don't have a livelihood It's going to take some money to help provide them. We get it And I want you to have a sense that if you work at it Sometimes these systems can actually produce something Beneficial and we're going to do our best. We owe you a better planet We'll work on it the panel. Thank you. Thank you