 This is covering the spread part of the Fandall podcast network We have talked through all angles of Super Bowl 58 from sides totals player props same game parlates Everything and now it's time to just sit back and watch the game But while doing so we can still bet on Super Bowl 58 a Fandall sportsbook via live betting And we haven't discussed that a lot here on the show We are going to amend that today by talking to Ed Miller He is a co-author of two of my favorite sports betting books I've ever read we're gonna talk through a live betting models things that he has built himself and try to get some insights on What the inputs are for live betting models where they're in efficiency lies and how we can potentially Try to find some edges while live betting both Super Bowl 58, but also just broadly in live betting markets This is covering the spread right here on the Fandall podcast network and Fandall research. My name is Jim Sonnis I am a managing editor of digital media for Fandall research Joined here as mentioned by Ed Miller you can find him on Twitter at Ed Miller poker He is a co-author of interception the secrets of modern sports betting Of course the logic of sports betting to with Matthew Davidao He's a guy who has built out his own live betting models So Ed it is a pleasure to have you on the show for today. How are you doing? I'm great, man? Thank you for having me absolutely We had Ed on a couple of years ago uncovering the spread talking through the logic of sports betting And it was fun to get the insights kind of on His thoughts and the industry and stuff like that and of course interception came out this fall Finally got to read all the way through it find some time during football season to get through that and it was a delight So we'll talk to Ed about what went into that book Building a live models where you can find it in efficiencies and much more throughout the show for today But first a reminder to make sure you're subscribed to covering the spread wherever you get your podcast We had four shows up previously throughout this week talking same-game parlays talking player props Sides and totals with dr. Ed fang and much more you can find all that right here in the covering the spread podcast We and of course on the Fandall YouTube page and Fandall TV plus if you like what you hear leave us a five-star rating I up a podcast or Spotify or leave us a thumbs up over on YouTube as well Happy Super Bowl to all who celebrate from Fandall America's number one sportsbook Fandall has so many ways For you to end the season with a W or two or three not only can you bet on who will win Super Bowl 58 But Fandall also has bets for which players will score a touchdown how many points will be scored and so much more new customers join today You'll get $200 in bonus bets if your first bet of $5 or more wins Make every moment more a Fandall an official sports betting partner of the NFL must be 21 plus and president select states Fandall is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC $10 first deposit required bonus issued as non-modrable bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat see terms at sportsbook Dot Fandall comm gambling problem call 1-800 gambler over the Fandall comm slash RG in Colorado Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and Vermont call 1-800 next step Or text next step to 5334 Q in Arizona 1-888-789-7777 Over the ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut 1-800 9 with it in Indiana 1-800 522-4700 visit KS gambling health comm of Kansas 1-800 777-770 stop in Louisiana visit MD gambling health at Oregon, Maryland 1-800 gambler net in West, Virginia 1-800 522 4700 in Wyoming hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 5050 for 247 supporting Massachusetts or call 1-87 70 hope and why or text open why in New York now And we're gonna talk about live betting for the most part for today But I feel like you'd be negligent on my part not to ask you any thoughts for you on the pregame markets here For 49ers versus cheese Fandall sports because the Niners are two and a half total at forty seven and a half right now. I Have none Yeah, I don't I don't in general, you know, these are extremely liquid markets There's tons of sport people in it And you know, I don't I don't think I could work very very very very hard and maybe Find a very small edge that I probably could easily be wrong about so I don't know my thing with you right now Are you primarily betting live? Is that kind of where you live as far as your actual like betting allocation? Well, I'm not I so I'm not Betting exactly. I've been on the industry side. We were built a company that Created odds feed for for operators. Basically. We we supplied sports books like Fandall not Fandall, but you know other sports books With with live odds, you know for you know during the game props all that kind of stuff So that's what I wanted to have you on for today is because your book interception focuses a lot on Live betting models and because you built those out You know what goes into a live betting model and you know some of the deficiencies as well because I'm sure you've had Frustrations along the way several while building out these live betting models So for people who don't know what are the inputs for live betting models? And yeah, so lead to bad lines during game Yeah, let me just outline the problem real quick from the sports books side, right? Like if you're a betting customer, you may not even think about it, but you know After every play in the Super Bowl, for instance, you're gonna get a new betting line, right? That line has to come from somewhere Well, where does it come from? It comes from a computer program Basically like the one I wrote or you know something similar So that's what we're talking about when we say a live betting model It's really just a program or an algorithm that calculates a line and and and it's important to say this because this is a big Distinction remember you asked do I have an opinion on the pregame betting line? Well, that's not an algorithm Yeah, what that is is that is a market a liquid market where people are buying and selling So if it if the price were minus three and a half people would buy if the price were minus You know where pick them people would sell right does that make sense? So whereas live That there's really no time for that process to happen every place There's just too much Information in the actual stuff that's happening on the field in any given second to allow that model That that market kind of model to even out So they rely on people like me to build computer programs to calculate lines So the question is, you know, what what goes into that? Well, the the there's several different ways to build these I would say they're on a spectrum kind of the two ends of the spectrum are like I would call it math equations Where if you looked at the code, you wouldn't even necessarily know there was a football game in You know, it's just kind of like plus on distributions and beta distributions and say right and then the other end of the spectrum is you can simulate the game you can you know, basically try to faithfully recreate a football game and Do it, you know a hundred thousand times and then However many times the chiefs win in your simulation, that's your betting line, right? So those are kind of the two ends of the spectrum and I would say most models that exist in them And there's like when I say models, there's I don't know a handful half a dozen that are in them You know marketplace any give a time fan duel will have their own football model You know, some of the other companies will have their own there's third-party companies like the one We found it that have supply them. So I know there's maybe six of them that are roughly in use In in the space And yeah, they're gonna lie on a spectrum between those two extremes of exactly how they work The main idea though is you want to tell the model what the pregame line was One way or another right so the model will either directly take in, you know, minus two and a half You know, whatever the total is as an input or it'll take some proxy for that But but it's it's gonna have some input that basically pegs that model to the pregame line because the people running the model trust that the market is smart Just like I do so Yeah, so that's how it works And then it's the model's job as things happen in the game to figure out mathematically Okay, well if this was a two and a half game before it started, but now You know, the 49ers just scored a touchdown on the first drive now What is it right? That's the question the model is supposed to answer and the problem is that situation occurs a lot Where a team is favor by two and a half is for a touchdown there of seven nothing a model is going to know And have a large sample to draw upon what the expectations are going forward from that kind of thing So in that sense a model is probably gonna be pretty efficient because like you said the market is efficient There's a lot of money in these markets. So they're gonna have good numbers going in and they're gonna have a good idea of what To expect when team acts that's favored by two and a half is up seven nothing early on Where are the models? Steer off course what can give them issues? Because I know like you said you've built out live vetting models What are the hardest things for you when you're building out that model and try to encapsulate within a game? So so first of all, there's the obvious, right? There's like the quarterback gets injured, you know, big major You know sort of unexpected events In this is less so in the NFL in college football The the pregame market even in the bigger games did the pregame markets are not very efficient and the teams The offenses and defenses are much more different. Yeah, and so Just seeing how they're matching up against one another in the game. How is this, you know You know option offense working against this defense actually, you know You can guess how it's gonna work based on whatever before the game But then you actually see the two teams on the field you see oh man that guy is it a huge matchup problem for this guy, right? So so it's less true in the NFL. These guys are all amazing that they all play off You know the teams are better known so that's less of a thing in the NFL But the thing that's always true is so obviously there's just unexpected events The other thing is that football is just Complicated especially because it's it's like it's not a continuous thing, right? Like they they have specific amounts of time on the clock They're gonna make specific decisions like for instance. Here's an easy one, right? Totals totals are a nightmare. Why are totals a nightmare? It's because the teams have two choices It's fourth down you have two choices choice one is punt That goes under right choice to is go for it that goes over right no matter what right? So like if they choose to go for it, that's an overplay and if they choose to put that's an underplay, right? And so as a model builder like it's my job One way or again one way or another whether I'm building a math model or one of these simulation models I I have to account for that sort of decision-making, right? I mean you've watched You're like, why is he going for it here? I mean, you know, it's it's impossible to really predict, right? So and and as I say, this is not a subtle effect on the total. This is a huge effect, right? So all that stuff is extremely hard to model and you know as the game goes on You know, it's just that that pregame market becomes less and less Useful it basically you could just think of it as a you know The chiefs are about this good and the 49ers are about this good, right? That's what the pregame line tells you well The further you get in the game, okay, I know that but like now the actual things that are happening in the game matter more and one thing you focused on a lot in the book is coaching tendencies and Like last year we two weeks ago. We saw Kyle Shanahan who's pretty conservative against Dan Campbell who's a madman And so I feel like being aware of those coaching tendencies is important for us as live better Kind of knowing right will this coach be aggressive or not? But that's something that like maybe you can but I I feel like it'd be very difficult to incorporate a coach's Aggressiveness into a live betting model because it's just like it's not realistic for you to kind of have those inputs across However, many NFL games are in a season. I mean, it's it. Yeah, exactly I mean, so I would say so I said there's you know, roughly six fish models in the market, you know, and Some of them are gonna account for that pretty well some of them are probably gonna completely punt on that problem You know, they might not even be aware they're punting on the problem again Some of these models are math models They don't even look like a football game necessarily if you look at the code the people that write them are mathematicians So the way that it's hard as a football Watcher and fan and better It's hard to get in the mind of some of the people that build the models, you know But really some of them are pretty math oriented and so they're not even necessarily thinking like that They're just thinking like how do I draw a distribution against this other distribution? They're just You know abstracting out the football part and thinking about numbers and yeah, exactly It's it's impossible to nail that. Yeah, um if You're not diode in on the football because it changes over time. That's the other thing, right? All this stuff changes, you know Right like they're all gonna make different decisions next year, right? So you can't you can't You can't use past data like that the way the way it's tempting to if you don't you know, think about the stuff Exactly, and that's a tough thing other thing you focused on in the book was The value that can be had in weird scenarios where the sample size models are drawing upon is smaller Like if the game script gets out of hand in a hurry that could potentially be a situation where the live model has Trouble encapsulating because the sample size is drawing upon is smaller so do you feel like better should be more inclined to check out live betting markets in Where things get off the rails because there are more difficulties in modeling out those kind of edge case scenarios Yeah, for sure. I mean if the game is going according to script, right then What does that mean? Well, no matter how the model is built. It's gonna be more comfortable in that space, right? There's gonna be whether it's a math model the distributions are you're gonna be in the middle part of the distribution if it's a simulation model It's gonna be built on Looking at just more instances of games that have gone like that, right? So no matter no matter what way, but yeah if that team gets out to you know, 21 nothing lead or something And now coaches start thinking about making weird decisions. Somebody's on slide kicking, you know, whatever, right? Like yeah, that's where all these models. I mean the model itself is Could easily get lost in a spot like that easily very easily, right, you know, yeah Yeah, for sure. So that's that's a difficult thing to model. So if things do get out of hand, that's where you could potentially find some more I would just pay more attention, you know, if the game starts going like that you say, okay This is this is this is gonna be harder for and this is and and you know I know this is Fandall and and just to be clear I think Fandall does a great job on this from you know, just as a you know, a professional respect Perspective, I think they did the people at Fandall who who build this these models and stuff Do a particularly good job? But yeah, I'm just you know That's the time to say hey, maybe the folks at Fandall didn't think of this one You know, maybe maybe they're you know flying blind and just yeah, take a look at those markets Does this number make sense? You know, you know and and whereas whereas that thought process of does this number make sense I kind of caution against that in the book because Sometimes your intuition is bad, right? So like, you know, yeah if they if the team that's favorite runs down the fuel and scores a touchdown and you're like Is that the right life? Yes, that's the real life Yes, it is But if the some team goes up for touchdowns and you're like is that the rail you think you're you're in much You know stronger ground to be like, I don't know if that's the right life, right? Exactly. Okay, so let's talk about Super Bowl specifically because one thing you discussed a lot in the book is how Models are running for like for college basketball. You've got 15 games going in a single and you can't have oversight in all those games You can't have eyes on those games as a trader But this is a Super Bowl most most sports are clearing out the paint letting this one have an iso ball for the entire time And with so much money being in there, there are more eyes in those markets So Should we be changing our process when this event like the Super Bowl where we know traders are going to have their eyes? To the best extent they can on these live markets, right? So so that's an excellent question And here's kind of what I would say about so so again There's a model, right with the which is the math But then there's a trader who's an employee at the sports book who's basically a go-between Between the math model and then what what betting odds actually get posted? So on a college basketball Saturday where there's a million games that go-between is just going to be like rubber stamp Yep. Yep. Good line. Good line. Whatever, you know, and nobody's betting it. So it's fine, right for the most part Super Bowls obviously the polar opposite of that. So yeah for sure. There's gonna be traders watching these lines the problem is from a trader perspective is that the math is Still gonna be a little bit of a black box for that trader, right? If I'm a trader. I work at a sports book Alright, the model says X. I don't Necessarily understand why the model says X. I didn't build the model. I sure it certainly didn't build the model I don't I don't know of any place where the people who are actively trading the games are One in the same as the people who built the so So that it's very likely that person's not gonna have insight into exactly how that model works exactly how it came up with So they might decide they don't like the number move it They might move it based on action, right? So that's the other thing. That's the thing that will happen There's a little bit more of a market in the Super Bowl for this stuff Then there would be during a normal right during a normal game. There's essentially no market behavior There's you know, people bet it and then boom lines down and now a new line gets calculated It's very little market, you know bet the weight of betting type input in the Super Bowl Obviously could be a little more but that then Begs the question do the traders understand what that betting action means, right? Because again, if I'm gonna say I'm a trader. I got a black box, right? Here's what I can look at I can look at what my black box is telling me I can look at what other operators have posted Right. I can watch the game and I can see the bets that are coming in Those are my four bits of information, right? And I have to Use my brain to kind of figure out, okay Everybody wants to bet on the chiefs at this moment. Why? Why are they all betting on the chiefs? Is it because it's a good bet? Is it because they just showed Taylor Swift on TV? Is it, you know, is it because some other sports book has it has a line that's 3% off of where I'm at. Is it because some sports book? It's not even on my screen that I don't see is offering something I don't you know, is it because my model sucks Is it because I mean you don't know right and you don't have a lot of time to figure it out in the moment Not not for any single line if it starts to accumulate over time, right? Like if everyone's betting the chiefs the entire second quarter Well, now you've got some time to think okay. What the heck's going on here? Why is everyone on the chiefs? You know, what do I need to do about that? You know, but as a one-off it's just it's a very difficult problem for traders So yeah, there's gonna be people trying to do that But it's hard. The other thing is that the books try to have a lot of lines up I mean, yeah so far we're basically only talking about the the big line, right the point spread or the money line I mean a lot of these books have props up. Yeah, you know Next touchdown scorer right and with a list of 20 people. I mean you keep track of that You try to figure out on the fly Okay, that she's had the ball on the 43 yard line who's the next touchdown score oops They just got a first down now with that. I mean come out to pick six, right? I mean exactly. It's just you know It's it's so hard In the moment to keep track of all this stuff and you just have to I mean so for the main stuff Yes, there's gonna be traders with eyes on it for the littler stuff I mean, it's just I mean best of luck to the operators offering that stuff if they want to do a good job So let's talk about those props because most books do now have live player props available And for me personally I have enjoyed these markets more because of latency issues When the chiefs of the ball mark Andrews is not in the field So I have more ability to bet into Mark Andrews markets without worrying that I'm gonna because my TV Feed is behind What the the the odds feed is I'm not worried about missing something, you know It will still impact what the chiefs do an offense will impact mark Andrews live markets But not to the same extent it'll impact results of this drive and stuff like that We've got wardrobe malfunctions to the Super Bowl so I'm assuming latency issues are not gonna get a whole lot better For this weekend than what they would be so for me personally live player props are my preferred way to bet it live So when you're watching games injuries are the big thing Obviously, you know, we know that the injuries will influence live markets But what other things do you think can influence us and trying to decide whether a live player prop is a good bet or not? Well, again, this is a football game and football is played in discreet Blocks one team has the ball. They have a dry like you said Mark Andrews is not on the field Not only is not on Mark Andrews not on the field now He will not be on the field until the Ravens get the ball, right? So Um So how does this sports book? That has to be in the line. Yeah, so in any line about a mark Andrews prop, right? There is an assumption about Essentially how many plays from scrimmage the Ravens are gonna run from here to the rest of the game Okay That's a hard assumption to make football is weird you know and and It's At the very first play of the game. It's easy because you use the pregame market, right now. It's the third quarter Right teams up to touchdowns, right Ravens are up to touchdowns, you know chiefs are driving you know What's that Mark Andrews prop supposed to be you tell me I don't know right the Ravens are gonna get the ball back What are they are they just gonna run it? What are they gonna do our Does the model know they're just gonna run it probably Probably doesn't nail it for sure. You know, it's just hard to nail All that stuff, you know And so if you just think about it in those terms just break it down, especially yeah We get into the second half we get to the they're gonna pull some of that stuff down in the fourth quarter They're not gonna let you bet that with three minutes. But you know, yes the third quarter You know you say okay, how many drives are left here that she's had the ball Okay, something's gonna happen on this drive. They're either gonna score or not then the the Ravens get the ball back Okay, it's gonna be the clock is gonna be about four minutes. You know, okay, they're gonna have a drive there They're gonna three and out they're gonna try to run the ball or maybe they're not Okay, now then the chiefs are gonna get the ball back. What's gonna happen? You kind of do the math, you know and again, this sounds like a lot of Logic to do in your head during a game and it will be if this is your first time doing it But you know if you if you make a habit of this if you decide you want to get good at this, right? you know and practice this is you get used to how football works, right and how this stuff works and Yeah, and and you're gonna find me if you do that Well, you're gonna find a lot of these props the in-game props are just absurdly priced I'm just gonna be honest because it's because because it's a math equation making the number and there's Complicated assumptions that go into that number that it's impossible to make the number without also making the complicated assumptions and You know, I mean, it's just who's made there's there's there's often The honest answer is there's often no person on the other end of that math equation who's actively trying to do that So and I think that with the live player props It's especially pertinent with guys who have volatile roles like I went to Mark Andrews because entering the conference championship We didn't really know what his role would be because coming off this pretty serious injury He didn't play the first three snaps of the game So like those are situations to that a math equation like you're talking about it's gonna have a hard time knowing unless they're like Filtering in next-gen stats feed to know that Mark Andrews imply which I'm guessing also you get updates on the first drive We watch the first drive you now have a new information exactly That is the person running the odds feed paying attention to that. Did they see the same thing, right? Often the answer is no and like that was my issue previously is I was like because I have like I have my own betting models But they're all for pregame or pretty right for me for a lot of now you and everyone else This is the state of the market. Everyone has pregame stuff and again for good reason. I understand why it's this way But yeah, there's there's not that that's the other thing. There's not a lot of live stuff out there Yeah, there just isn't like as far as like on the modeling side, right on the better modeling side Like there's it's not like the you know go to live betting model calm You know and then get up to the minute, you know nerd modeling is not a thing, right? Will it be a thing probably? But it's not right now the the issue I had is I was always like it was like paralysis Cuz I was like I know that this was a good bet before like I can tell myself It was a good bet before the game But I would always be like paranoid during the game whether or not it's a good bet But I think that reading your book kind of you know Allows you to realize the inefficiencies of some of these markets and feel more at ease and feel more like Okay Maybe I actually do have an edge here even though I can't mathematically right you never know it right never know That's that that's the thing about sports betting that it is it is nerve-wracking right because you know at other games You know in poker. I mean I my background my original game. I mean it's cards. I know if I get my money all in with aces It's a good bet. I just know right you literally never know it sports Yeah, but you never know when you when you pull that trigger and you're like man, I'm sure there's a good But you could be wrong You know, but the thing is they can also be wrong and they can also be very wrong Right, so it's it's you just have to embrace that you know kind of uncertainty of it and just say you know We're we're we're in the fog of war here and we're we're gonna just do our best You know finally getting to that point which has been comforting for me throughout these playoffs now The other thing you talk about a lot during interception is the inefficiencies of same game parlays because it's the same thing Where it's relying on a model and you get some to some edge cases You can get a lot of flukiness So you talked about the value parlays as well in the logic of sports betting we talked to you about like parlaying KBO markets when the weather is you know a certain way and stuff like that and you talked about the value parlays And I think that's especially pertinent when it comes to heavily correlated markets Where the books are trying to account for that correlation, but are they doing so properly? So what are the advantages of same game parlay is that may go overlooked through your eyes? All right So say a parlay from the sport again from the sports books perspective is a devilishly hard problem if you want to offer Any kind of menu like the modern modern menus, right? Particularly if you want to offer any player base bets at all it It becomes extremely hard because you have to correlate correctly Player usage with game state with game situation. So All of a sudden you have a situation where you have to know If the chiefs go up three touchdowns This guy is gonna get more usage or this guy's gonna get less usage. You have to get that right, right? This happens in basketball is a big deal in basketball a big deal So that's the first thing you have to nail all that because that you can pick all that if you get that wrong You're better can pick that apart By choosing those as the options they pick chiefs win the first half by 21 plus points, which is you know gets obviously huge plus money But you know now as the moment you click that into your parlay leg You're now you don't care about any of the run out to the game where that doesn't happen, right? That's a no longer matters. You only care So it's it's on one hand. You can think of this is the long odds of public illusion. Yeah, you probably lose Don't think of it in those terms. That's not how to think of it to think of it is okay. They have a model. Oh They have this entire universe of possible events that they have to basically model correctly I want to find the parts of that universe that they screw up, right and so Yeah, you say okay Well, what happens if you know the chiefs go up by 21 points in the first half and then what's gonna happen to this players? You know touchdown rate in that situation Okay, or what's gonna happen to this players yardage or this players carries or something, you know And it could be maybe it's a second string running back who all of a sudden it's gonna get you know 11 carries in that situation or something like that, right? So so Um, whatever it is you just think it through right you say, okay What happens? What about if this happens in the end you can just play around with it You just say what what what if what if the what if they score? No points at the first That's not as interesting a one but like, you know, but you could just ask all those like what if this happens Click that in that's now a parlay leg Okay, then what right and look at all the options and say okay Can I bet I can now bet this guy over anytime? This is 20? Yes, please, right? Yes, you know and Yeah, so that's that that's how I would look at it. It's it's you know, again, it's the player Props that really make the single game parlay is extremely hard to price because if it's limited to only game props You know, yeah, I can kind of get it, right You know if you have to choose win the first half by 21 points, you know, what are the total right yards of the other team? In the second you can kind of come up with a reasonable answer for that But I mean when you draw down to the individual player, let's just you know forget it Well, I think it's just like such an advantage for us to realize that when we plug a leg into a parlay We're assuming that that plays out and it's that's an input for us like okay the Game goes over. Let's say the Niners win. Let's do an alt market Niners minus five That means the chiefs are dropping back more often Patrick Holmes may scramble more often So you can say what are the things that occur if I assume? Yep, this leg automatically hits and that's it's just like more data for us to have and I feel like Thinking about it as that that is guaranteed to hit It's not guaranteed it but like in the event this parlay pays out that event is guaranteed to hit What else is more likely to occur if I assume that happens this? Yeah, this kind of thinking is is extremely effective for picking apart apart same-game parlays for really in all the sports Honestly now, I mean I had somebody email me. We have an example in interception that I just kind of I haven't messed with Hockey same-game parlays. I just was like, you know uses my brain and I said here's a here's a if someone decides to offer hockey parlays where you can bet on you know players to score goals and get assists Well, you could pair up people on the same line and you know possibly take it and sure enough somebody about me It said I I read that in your book. I thought about it. I looked for it. I've been killing it Well, no hockey same-game parlay. I mean, I didn't even know that was a thing I was just like it's it's going to be if it's not a thing now It's going to be a thing someone's gonna decide they want to put up player-based hockey parlays And and then that's the problem that person's gonna have to solve and it's hard to solve So here it is, you know, and yeah, it's it's it's it's there in all this Sports right and there's value and they want to get the markets up they want to offer these all these markets how offer a wide menu and Not everything's gonna be perfect right away It'll never be perfect as you said, but it'll be less perfect at night So trying to find things that may be more in their infancy stage like live Live player props like same-game parlays. You're more likely to find an edge there than there then you may somewhere else That is Ed Miller, I have a link to Interception the secrets of modern sports betting in the show notes over on fan dual research if you want to check that out I'd highly recommend it along with the logic of sports betting with him and Matthew Davidao Two awesome books for you to betting or if you're a seasoned veteran to both integral parts for your process and I appreciate the time Enjoy the soup bowl and hopefully we'll talk to you again here soon. Thank you so much It's always a lot of fun to talk about this Absolutely Ed on Twitter at Ed Miller poker and we have a link to that book again over on fendal research as well true delight I get to talk to him pick his brain about live betting something. We have not discussed enough I don't think on this podcast overall. That's all we got here for today and this week here on covering the spread big Thank you to all of our guests for joining us throughout this time I'll talk you in their insights on Super Bowl 58 find all those shows on the covering the spread podcast feed and Fandal.com and the Fandal podcast network Fandal YouTube page and Fandal TV plus I am on Twitter at Jim Sonnis You can find me on threads at Jim dot Sonnis and check out Fandal research on Twitter at Fandal research want to thank you all for tuning in for Today enjoy the Super Bowl talk to you all once again next week This has been covering the spread right here on the Fandal podcast network