 Welcome to NewsClick. Since August, Jammu and Kashmir and particularly Kashmir Valley has been living through and going through turbulent times. We have with us Parvez Mroz, who is the patron of Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society. We have been working as a civil liberties activist for the last 40 years to share with us what his experience has been in Kashmir and his understanding of the developments in Kashmir. Welcome to NewsClick. Parvez, let me start by asking you the first question that comes to my mind because you have been documenting these issues for decades now. How do you see the development today in 2019 in comparison to 2008, 2010 and 2016? And in which way is this, what does it show about the situation in Kashmir? You see, previous instance were very, very spontaneous, you know, 2010 and 2016. And number one, the government was not prepared also for that, you know. But this year, 2019, you know, they had made a lot of preparations, you know, maybe going on for months or years for doing what they did, you know, abolishing the special status, then perfecting the state, and then also, you know, reducing the status from the Union Territory, which was really devastating for Kashmiris, you know. They had never imagined in their wildest dreams that the government of India could go up to this extent, you know. Even in Dogra and Jammu? Yeah, they were, everybody was held shocked, you know, as if it was a huge, you know, and people were frustrated and they don't know, though they were rumors earlier, you know, they are going to do this thing, but nobody can believe that yet. So this time, since the government had already made huge preparations and deployment of the further troops there, CRPF, and we have the militarization there, but this is not the unprecedented, you know, the way you have the army personnel, boots present everywhere on streets, highways, you know, villages and everywhere, you know. Even in residential colonies? Yeah, everywhere, I'm telling you that. So with the result that the fear psychosis, you know, the element of fear, which was probably, they had used very successfully this time, you know, how to prevent the protest and how to prevent the recursion of the 2010 or 16 year in which they were able to contain it here. But this thing, the situation and the level of fear and level of control by the army was unprecedented. Tell me how in this situation where everything is at a standstill, there is no public transport, there are no internet. So communication, despite 23 landlines, communication is still a huge problem. Now mobile phones have been restarted without SMS and all. In this situation, how did the judiciary function and what are the problems that litigants had to face, or those who were seeking in news and release of people, their kit and kin, how did they cope with the situation? You see, if we see all the government institutions, the government offices, I mean, they have got paralyzed, you know. The government employees are going to offices, but schools for example, schools are, teachers are going, school children are not going there, right? Judiciary was the institution and it is still an institution where people still have the hope that because people whose relatives have been booked under the Public Safety Act, you know, in which one person can be detained without charge sheet and trial for months and months. And they have been going to judiciary, but they unfortunate response from the judiciary which should have been very sensitive towards the civil liberties issue and they are not following their own laws. For example, the flow of management rules are there. What does that mean? That means that the habeas corpus petition has to be decided within four weeks time and notice has to be given to other side within 24 hours. That has not been followed. I mean, on the country, they notice have been issued for four weeks and then again it is listed and again four weeks. I mean, it is really the- This is unprecedented. This is the, I mean, it makes the judicial institutions completely relevant because if the judiciary is not following their own laws and also, but people have no option, you know, and they are going there. As far the other matters are concerned, for example, the 107, you know, they have been arresting people under CRP. There is a provision for breach of peace. You can detain anybody. For any length of time. Unless he is not going to give the bond here and they have to give the bond and then even for the bonds, you know, they have made some other laws there. They have to give, they are calling the youth whom they are arresting because they have been arresting youth indiscriminately, even the juniors in villages, which are in formula arrest here. But these are not recorded. They are not recorded. There is no FR that only formula arrest is very limited. You know, I told you 350 maybe in PSA and then 107. But they indiscriminate detention in villages, in tassels of the youth, young people there. Anybody who suspect, that is why the young people are not living in their homes. They go and stay at nights to other places there. So, in that case, they have been asking the detainees to pay the money, extortion and other things are being done there. So, in that case, what I'm telling you that the role of judiciary is completely become not useful for the people there, but they have no option but to go to judiciary. What is the number of arrests according to you? I know that you're right now in the middle of preparing your report, but the government side says that they arrested, the Indian Home Minister has said that they picked up about 4,000 people and now only 1,000 people are left. What is your assessment? Was it 4,000 or more? No, I think I'm telling you, as I told you earlier, informal arrests mean which they are not showing and they are for anyone on the record. That would be more than 20,000, 30,000. There's no doubt about that. And these have been who have been picked up informally and kept for a few days or a few weeks. And then they called their parents which have told you that there's no provision to give them what do you call that community bonds. They're calling the detainees or relatives, they're calling them to the police station and give the community bond that they are not going to, which is nowhere in the law. You are taking the bonds from their parents. So this is like a collective punishment? It is. And it is something, you know, in Kashmir there are two, one is a formal way, second is the informal way. The formal way is no which is the legal, like PSA, it is a formal way, right or wrong. You take a guy to different states, you book him. But the other informal ways, like for example, a clamping of 144, preventing this or detaining the people, you know, without any formal order. So informal ways are more than the formal ways. And these have been used to control the people, to control them because the government is paranoia that there should not be any mass uprising in Kashmir, which is a big question, you know. But after 2019, as some political analysts say that why there's a calm, no very deafening calm in Kashmir, what it will move towards, nobody knows. Nobody knows. At the same time, the government seems to be preparing for a spate of protests because CR, the Central Reserve Police Force, has been asked to collect non-lethal munitions, pellet guns, tear gas, etc., etc., in order to meet the challenges that they expect to face very soon. But meaning that they have to stay the army for a longer period. I mean, they have to then further, I mean, it would be very, I mean, huge expenses. I mean, you have that the Indian taxpayers have to pay there and then nobody knows because as for I am concerned, you know, I have as a Kashmiri also working on the ground there, the anger, the, you know, which I have seen here this time, not from the political parties who are, you know, I'm talking the Hurriyad, but even from the mainstream, who were like NC, like PDP, who were at that constituency, they have become more because the way they have been treated, the leaders have been detained and more anger than, more anger that here. So there is a, I mean, nobody knows really, I mean, whether what future holds, yeah. Now, in a situation where there is no news available for Kashmiris, they can't talk to anybody, their newspapers don't report their views or their conditions and their concerns, because there is complete control on the local media and their Indian media has a mixed role with electronic channels and the large section of the print media on one side and social media and some section of the print media, which is reporting still from the ground. In this situation, how important is the international and Indian public opinion? Because Kashmiris don't know anything what is happening on the ground. I mean, what kind of news is being fed to people in India or abroad? Yeah, we don't know anything about because we don't are getting the Indian newspapers there since 5th of August. Even still, we are not getting the papers there. Even the so-called national delis? Yeah, yeah, we're not getting it. So, Kashmiris are not just local newspapers, but even access to national delis. No, local papers are being printed there. I'm telling you, I used to get five, six papers daily, but I'm not getting it. I read the, I came here yesterday and saw first time they, you know, these Delhi papers here. But then they, you don't have internet, you don't know what's happening outside there. And then all you heard by the, even by the Indian electronic media, the way India reacted to the international media coverage, which was, which was very embarrassing for the Indian government. And so that gave the idea that the whole international media has been very active in, I mean, there was a focus on the Kashmir. Yeah, that was the thing. But as for the Indian print media's concern, and then as we know that it was really very disappointing. Yeah. Now, in such a situation, what role do you think? I mean, there were two reports that the UN Committee on Human Rights had brought out on Kashmir in the last two years. Did it play any role, leave any impact? Or do you think international opinion and Indian people's opinion is something which is vital for, for this, for the Kashmiri people now in this phase of this struggle? Yeah, of course, you know, you can't go, United Nation is not an NGO, you know, a report from the UN OHCHR report in 2018 and 2019, in which they have asked for the GOMDA of India to hold a comprehensive independent investigation into the human rights situation in Kashmir and which existed prior to August 5th. August 5th, because then we have also documented like torture reports. But GOMDA of India cannot deny, you know, all the, and that too, when there's a huge international intervention, which has, at the cost of the Indian government's image, outside, GOMDA of India cannot deny it when, and that too, when all the ground reality is very against. You mean they ought not to deny, because they are denying. No, no, they haven't been denying it. They haven't been always denying it. You know, in 2008, there was a report, European Parliament passed a resolution urging the GOMDA of India to hold investigation into the mass graves, you know, and even, but GOMDA of India refused it. GOMDA of India is refusing everything. GOMDA of India refused UN military observer groups of India and Pakistan to monitor the OIC. GOMDA of India refuses OICs, you know, fact-finding visit to come to Kashmir. GOMDA of India denies foreign media to come to Kashmir, right? GOMDA of India has been denying, even for example, if the international monitoring group on elections, they want to monitor the election in Kashmir. GOMDA of India has been denied. GOMDA of India has denied, even they spoke, there are seven special repeaters of United Nations, particularly the torture they want to come to visit to Kashmir. So, I mean, denial is not, you go and keep denying the outside. When that too, when you're a very ambitious country, trying to become the member of the, permanent member of the UN Security Council, I mean, what, it will be definitely at the cost of the image, India. India has a good image worldwide, it had, at least. But now the way they are behaving, I mean, you have to be responsible to the international humanitarian law. You cannot keep denying it, you know, and brutalizing the Kashmiri people there, on the name of security, on the name of terrorism and peace. Basically, the ground reality is against India there. And whatever they have been, the government of India have been doing there from last 30 years, situation is getting downhill. It's getting worse. It is getting worse, it is getting downhill and I don't think it is working for India. Well, that's all it for today, Parvez. Thank you for talking to us in NewsClick. We hope to have you again with us to take us through the minefield that Kashmir has turned into. That's all for today. 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