 Hello everyone and welcome. You have arrived at the Board of Assessors debate for election 2020 here in Arlington, and of course, like everything else, it's the coronavirus version of this debate. So we have the candidates and myself all sequestered and yet altogether. And we, I just want to outline what's going to happen with the debate and then we'll move right into it. I am joined first of all by the candidates for Board of Assessors this year. In ballot order, they are Errol Tuschan and Mary O'Connor and Gordon Jamison. Again, that's in order on the ballot. We're going to start with opening statements of one minute each from each of the candidates and then go into three rounds of questioning. The first round is one question going to the same question going to all three candidates and each will have two minutes to respond. Then we'll go into the next section of questions, which are prepared questions, which will be chosen at random by me from this mason jar. And then given posed to each of the candidates will one question per candidate who will respond initially with two minutes response time and then each of the other candidates will have one minute to rebut. And we'll move through those three questions. And finally, the last section of questions are another three. These in turn are going to be posed by the candidates themselves to the other candidates. So each candidate will have an opportunity to pose a question 30 seconds in which to do it. So it's not a speech is a question. And then both of the respondents will have two minutes each. And the person who posed the question will have a minute to be able to respond to those answers. We will then close with closing statements of one minute each and we'll be done. So without further ado, the, the order of candidates for presenting the opening statements was chosen randomly before we came on. And they will be Mary O'Connor going first and then arrow touch on going second and Gordon Jameson third. So without further ado, let's get going. Mary you have or Miss O'Connor excuse me you have one minute for an opening statement. Good afternoon. My name is Mary when Stanley O'Connor, and I'm asking for your vote for reelection to the Board of Assessors. In addition to my service on the Board of Assessors, I have been an active community volunteer, including more than a decade of service on the Arlington zoning Board of Appeals. Past service as the Arlington School Committees appointee to the Arlington Education Foundation, more than two decades of service on several scholarship committees and service as a town meeting member. My education, which includes a postgraduate degree in tax law, my years of experience as an attorney, including work for the housing corporation of Arlington for the development of affordable housing in our town. And my service on the zoning Board of Appeals dealing with land use issues, special permits and variances, and my service on the Board of Assessors and my commitment to our town best qualifies me to continue as your elected assessor. I thank you. And we thank you. Mr. Tush John. Hey Arlington. I hope everyone is healthy and safe at home and keeping spirits high. My name is Earl Tush John and I'm a newer resident of Arlington. My wife and I moved here last summer and couldn't be happier about living here. The reason why I'm running for this office is somewhat personal. After we moved to town, we received our quarterly tax bill reflecting an assessed value approximately 8% higher than what we paid for our house, more than we were expecting. I wondered how and why the assessor's office when the mission statement is to accurately value property within the town could get the assessment so wrong, especially when the town should have all the market data. Trying to understand the methodology behind the assessment I found the process to be quite opaque. I began the payment abatement process and soon realized that this wasn't easy. I fill out a four page form identifying three comparable properties that recently sold provide an absurd amount of detail while cross-referencing their assessed values. Please go online and look at this form. It's insane. The assessor's office should provide more resources for residents to complete these and they should get it right the first time. I am running to carry out the mission of the board but in a more transparent manner. I'm going to cut you off there. And Mr. Jamison one minute. Hi, I'm Gordon Jamison. I'm running for the board of assessors. I'm running to implement resident focus change to the board, the assessor's office and their interactions with Arlington residents. And it's high time for change given that the average tenure, whether as assessor or board member of the board assessors is over 30 years. So what type of change would I seek to implement? I would work to make the assessor's office and its website more user friendly, more transparent, and to enact procedures that enhance the internal review of assessment data to help ensure the accuracy of property owner's assessments. Why are these changes needed, you might ask? It's simple. The assessment process is where our taxation process in support of town and school services all starts. And without an open thoughtful, accurate and accountable process, the whole thing falls apart. So we'll move right into the first section of questions and it's a very short section made composed of one question which will be posed to each of you and you'll have two minutes to respond. And acknowledging that you will have covered some of this in your opening statements. Nonetheless, what we would like to know is, what makes you the best candidate for this office at this time? Or if you'd prefer, why should we vote for you? And we will start with, excuse me, just a second. That's the order here is Mr. Tosjan and Ms. O'Connor and then Mr. Jamison. So Mr. Tosjan. Sure. Well, I'm actually a CPA in Massachusetts and I hold a graduate degree in taxation. I've worked for large financial firms for over 10 years, which qualifies me to work in complex bureaucracies. As a CPA, I can bring forth a new perspective. I have the ability to perform audits, I can ensure appropriate controls are in place in the board, and I can advocate on behalf of the taxpayer. Secondly, I also belong to a younger generation than those are in the board. It's important that the taxpayers in Arlington, especially newer and younger families that our neighbors have generational representation on the board. Since this, since the board determines the largest monthly, or one of the monthly, largest monthly obligations that the taxpayers have to pay, I think it's important that since there's a three person board, we have the luxury of having someone from a younger generation that sits on the board. Okay, thank you very much. Ms. O'Connor. Thank you. I have provided you with my education and experience. I have been on the board of assessors for approximately 20 years. During that period of time, each and every year, the Department of Revenue has certified the values and the assessments that Arlington has proposed. With respect to abatements that have been filed Arlington has been successful 90% as to the values of the assessments. With respect to Mr. Tastian's claim that a younger generation needs to be represented on the board, the board of assessors does not represent a particular group of people in the town of Arlington. The board of assessors is a politically nonpartisan group of people charged under the state law with fairly and accurately valuing property in the town of Arlington and considering and providing responses to abatements and exemption requests. My work on behalf of the board and my work as a volunteer in the community, I suggest best serves me to continue in that role. I thank you. Thank you. Mr. Jameson. Yes, I have been a homeowner and a resident of Arlington for the past 18 years and I'm currently in my sixth term as member of our representative town meeting. I'm a graduate of Middlebury College and I received my doctorate in molecular and cellular biology from Duke University and MBA from the University of Cincinnati. Before returning home to New England in 2002, I was an assistant professor at a Midwest Medical Center and had my own biotechnology consulting firm. Currently I run a cancer drug development company. So as you might imagine, I am well versed with dealing with complex data sets and their analysis, something that I feel a story lacking in the current board's membership and the operations of the assessors office. I served for 12 years as a co-chair of the Arlington Recycling Committee. During that period of time we worked with the town and residents to reduce the amount of trash that we incinerate by 30%, thereby saving the town millions upon millions of dollars. I currently serve and have for 12 over 12 years as a co-chair of the Mission Arlington's physical resource task group, which among other things has taken a special interest in the assessment process. In fact, I would say that beyond the select board, board of assessors and town staff that since moving to town, that I have attended more annual tax hearings. That's when the tax rate is set in December than anyone else in town. The things I and my community members have pushed for the implementation of a split tax rate and residential exemptions to assist our lower income property owners. If elected, I will continue to push for adoption of those approaches to assisting them. I've also been involved through the physical resource task group and publishing a series of citizens corner articles in the advocate, detailing how our town functions, something that we have compiled into a government member that can be found online. In my arrival in Arlington, I co-led the community rebuild of Robbins Farm Park playground, something that continues to provide enjoyment to all. And like many, I've been involved in the override and that includes in campaigns, as we seek to make our town a more wonderful place. Thank you very much. Got to stop you there. And we are moving on to section two of the questions. Again, these are questions prepared in advance by us and contained here in this mason jar. The first question is going to be directed to Mizz O'Connor. You have two minutes to respond and I am pulling it out right now. And it is, what are the biggest issues facing the assessor's office and how would you tackle them. Thank you, James. Some of the more significant issues facing the assessor's office is the continued updating of data and values in the town. The assessor's office has a staff of only four people, one of which is the data collector responsible for collecting data as to 14,000 taxable properties in the town of Arlington. Imagine that is a significant job. Also, the Board of Assessors considers all abatement applications, exemption applications, and consideration of other matters brought to the board by way of valuation. That is responsible for putting together the tax levy, the information so that the town can apply for its tax levy every year. And that is done in October and November, which is a significant job and requires a tremendous amount of work. Each and every year, that information is reviewed by the Department of Revenue for accuracy as to the supporting data and has been, Arlington has been approved each and every time. So those are some of the issues that face the Board of Assessors. The Board of Assessors work to continue to provide accurate data at all times. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Jameson, you are first with rebuttal of one minute. Yes, Ms. Winsan, the O'Connor brings up an important point, the amount of work that needs to be done by the Director of Assessments and his staff that the Board of Assessors oversees. And as I mentioned in my opening comments, I would like to increase the use of technology with the office. So from simple things like adding PDF fillable forms to facilitate the completion of abatement deferral and tax credit requests by residents to the implementation of QA, of greater QA QC analysis within the Assessors office. And perhaps using the town GIS system to assist in those efforts. But perhaps most important, the simple process of searching the database for outliers so that yes, the materials always pass the DOR review, but we need to make sure that the answers for the residents are right the first time and not after an abatement. And if we need to hire more staff, we should hire more staff. Thank you. Mr. Tuschan. Yeah, I think the biggest issue is gaining the trust of the taxpayers in Arlington. I think the board could be served well by ensuring that there's more transparency in its methodologies when it derives values that are impacting the lives of the taxpayers in Arlington. You know, when I received my abatement results, there was really no detail as to how the board arrived at that number. I mean, I think it would be especially helpful if the board provided that information to the taxpayers in Arlington. Every five years or so the amounts have to get certified by the Bureau of Local Assessments by the state. It's great that the board adheres to the state oversight, but at the end of the day, the board really needs to focus on the Arlington taxpayer and certainly doing right by them. Okay. Thank you very much. Next question will be posed to you, Mr. Jamison, and it is. What specific improvements would you propose to the process of obtaining an abatement as it currently stands? Well, first of all, I'd go back to the PDF fillable forms. I recently filed for one of those and the form is something you have to do by hand. It's really sort of awkward and difficult as Mr. Tuschan mentioned. And so that would make it more user friendly. And next, I would hope to make the assessment process more transparent so that the people filing, considering filing an abatement would understand where their tax bills, the assessed values come from. And that could be done through, I think that what we need to add is a series of detailed public and online presentations about the assessment process. So it's no longer a black box. These presentations would explain clearly how you and your land and the structures thereon are valued and the rationale via a neighborhood, the grade of the property, the condition of the property, the finished square footage, footage area of the structure in a bill, the blot, et cetera, that they upon which the assessed value is based. This would promote permit every resident to better understand the process and procedures that have led to the value determination of their personal properties. And lastly, and perhaps most important, I would increase the level of internal data review and QAQC analysis. Yes, as the board members and the assessors will tell you each and every time you can file for an abatement, but you shouldn't have to. It should be done correctly the first time. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Tuschan. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with what Mr. Jamison said. Yeah, as I recently completed an abatement, I had to basically randomly search for three comparable properties in Arlington that are similar to mine. I mean, you either have to have a real estate license or have a great familiarity with real estate law in order to fill out one of these things. The town of Arlington does put out a PDF where you can search recent sales, but it'd be really helpful if they included the assessed value. It's almost as if the town or the, you know, the board doesn't want you to have an easy time filling out the abatement form. And like Mr. Jamison said, I think presentations would be helpful how the town arrives at arriving at the values and really once they do that abatement, what went into that? I mean, how did they arrive at that dollar? Is that amount sufficient? Could it be wrong? Could it be right? What are your neighbors getting for their abatements? There were only 2% of the amounts abated last year in the town. I wonder why. Thank you very much. And Ms. O'Connor, one minute rebuttal. Certainly. Thank you. The Board of Assessors website has a significant amount of information on it. Additionally, the Board of Assessors has held hearings to describe for taxpayers how their values are determined. Information is available. The forms are hand filled out. That's something the board could consider putting into a PDF form. But all of the information is available. When someone applies for an abatement and they are denied or it is approved, they have the ability to request a courtesy hearing before the Board of Assessors, which many people do. And let me point out that the Appellate Tax Board has determined that the Board of Assessors for the town of Arlington has been correct in their assessments 90% of the time on all of those people that have filed appeals at the Appellate Tax Board. That is a significantly high return. Thank you. And the third and final question in this section is going to be directed to you, Mr. Tuschan. Sure. And it reads, what do you see as the primary work and mission of the Board of Assessors? And how do you see yourself fitting into that? Sure. Well, the mission of the Board is to accurately and fairly assess the values of real property in Arlington. It's not the Board's job to set the tax rate, as you may know. You know, as a result of that, the Board is apolitical. Its job really is to nail the values for all the property in Arlington. You know, I think in doing so, the Board, when they meet twice a month, they do, you know, take minutes, they set agendas. The last time minutes were posted to the website was December 2, 2019, highlighting a significant need for additional transparency. The minutes themselves do contain very little detail, so I think it is incumbent on the Board in the future to consider providing additional detail in those minutes. You know, the theme here generally is just to be more transparent, have a Board that carries out the mission on behalf of the Arlington taxpayer, not trying to, you know, adhere to state guidelines primarily. But that shouldn't be the main focus, although obviously that's a requirement of the Board. As Miss O'Connor stated, the Board gets the assessed values correct 90% of the time. Well, even a 10% deviation of assessed value can lead to, you know, $1,000 or more annual difference in tax for a taxpayer. That's no chump change for, you know, the average person, especially the younger folks in Arlington who are coming of age who may not have this significant resource to cover, you know, an additional $1,000 a year that they weren't expecting. It's really important that the Board nails these assessments, not leave any amounts for abatement. Thank you. Miss O'Connor, you have one minute. Thank you. The Board's duties are statutorily determined. With respect to the hearings, I would suggest to you that both of my candidates running in opposition talk about transparency and board meetings. I've yet to see them at a Board of Assessors meeting. The Board of Assessors have a public component to their meeting, and then they go into executive session abatements and exemptions and deferrals are all decided in executive session as required by Massachusetts law. That's why you, the public does not see certain things that are decided by the Board of Assessors. People are required to submit income tax returns, medical information, as well as conditions concerning their health and their financial well-being. That information is kept confidential and is done in executive session. Mr. O'Connor, Mr. Jamison, one minute. Yes, the Board of Assessors is the voters voice towards this process. And through us, one of us will be elected and join the Board. That's how the voters implement their power. Our job is to oversee the assessment process through the assessment department and to ensure the accuracy, as I've mentioned before, to implement and perhaps add staff if we need to increase our QA, QC work, and to inform the community about the process. How does it work? What are the nuts and bolts and everything? And to ensure transparency. And by transparency, I refer to the process, not to the executive sessions that Ms. Wynne-Samuel O'Connor mentioned. It's just that you should be able to go onto the website, watch a presentation, the PDF, maybe listen or go to a presentation that the Board can give with the assessor. And people can go and learn about this. So I've found the best things it is to learn more. Okay, thank you very much. We are now going to move into the third and final round of questions in which we invite each candidate to pose a question to the other two. And we're going to start with you, Mr. Jamison, posing a question first to Mr. Taschan, and then Ms. O'Connor will go after that. As I've mentioned, the assessment process is where our taxation process and support of the town or town school services all begins. And without an open, thoughtful, accurate and accountable process, the whole thing falls apart. On that note, how can it be that the assessed value of a buildable lot in one part of town can vary by a factor of two or more? Or the assessed structural value of two properties with similar finished square footage on the same block could also vary by a factor of two. And that those two properties are two standard deviations plus or minus from the mean. I'm going to have to ask you to wrap it up quickly. Oh, on the street. I'm sorry. So my question is how would you address these inequities? Mr. Taschan. Yeah, Mr. Jamison, you bring up a great point. I couldn't agree more. You know, frankly, I'm not sure, but I would like to address the inequities. I mean, there's going to be a lot of on the job learning I have to admit. I mean, the Bureau of Local Assessment puts out a 70 page document online that I have to admit I haven't studied but if elected I would, I would gain familiarity with the assessment process and you know, ensure that these inequities are accounted for. Okay. Thank you. There are a number of factors that would impact a differing valuation for two similar properties. One is with respect to the land, depending upon the grade and condition of the land, whether there's there are easements on the property, whether there's ledge, whether there's slope of whether there's a view factor with respect to the homes. When we do an interior inspection, we determine whether it's in a very good condition, good condition or average condition. That all impacts the overall value of the property. And there are a number of factors that go into that. Okay, Mr. Jamison, you have one minute to respond. To respond quickly to Ms. Winlist and the O'Connor, the parameters that she mentioned are important for structural analysis. But it would be nice to know what those, what those, what good, they're very good and things in between me. But getting to much more to my, to the point, we live in a modern era where data analysis processes procedures are well known and readily available. So how can the current process not include a determination of outliers such as the ones I mentioned in my question. It clearly does not. And further, how can we, I'd like to know how we can use the town's GIS system to search sub neighborhoods and perform statistical analysis on those properties as well. This is not rocket science folks, folks in a town where the spreadsheet was invented, we deserve and can do better. Thank you. Thank you. And next question will come from you, Mr. Tosh John and be directed first to Ms. O'Connor and then Mr. James. Sure. This O'Connor with a board that has such senior tenure, shouldn't there be a chance for some new blood some new perspective to be on the board shouldn't the taxpayers in Arlington receive the benefit of a fresh set of eyes on the board time to time. Mr. O'Connor. Thank you. Oh, frankly, the board doesn't have a perspective it's charged with statutory authority of valuing property for fair and full cash value and deciding exemptions and abatements. It is a non partisan board age does not matter. Frankly, I would suggest you that the people on that board are highly experienced and seasoned professionals with significant experience myself with legal experience as well as land use and zoning experience. The other members of the board also have substantially similar experience and that is critically important. Thank you very much. And Mr. Jameson. Yes. So this is a good point. I would like to focus on this one Stanley O'Connor definitely has I think the best track record of the group that's currently serving and if I was not running for the reasons I've stated previously. Which I had similar issues when I first moved the town on the valuation of my property. I would be voting for Mary. So, but I would like you to vote for either myself or Mr. Dejean because I do think we need to see a clear new voice to this process for a set of fresh eyes but fresh, fresh concepts towards how we can better provide information to the to the to the residents and the taxpayers versus the common line you get when you ask questions of the Board of Sessors and the assessors is it's sort of like belittles the question. They often answer with like we in a tone that suggests we've got this and why don't you just not worry you're pretty pretty little face head about it. I'm just starting over the years. I've run into that time and time again. Now, yes, they're a wonderful group of people. I like them all. They've been very helpful some of the work we've done with the physical resource task group and providing information and date and the database so we can look at that. But even a even a cursory perusal of the assessment database allows you to I quickly identify some of the discrepancies that I've mentioned earlier. The neighborhood thing which I'm told is a big impact in this town. I think it's probably less because we rebuilt all the elementary schools I live up near the bracket that used to be a really key place to live but I think the town is equalized that a lot. And it would be nice to know what each of these parameters are and how a notch up or down on each of those parameters and impact your assessment. None of that information is available it's all in the black box and the assessors office. Thank you. And Mr. touch on one minute to respond. Yeah, the statement that the board has no perspective. I mean that that's just simply false. Every person is going to have a perspective different experiences different backgrounds that they bring to any job that they do. You know a younger person naturally is going to have an easier time with with technology they're going to have different experiences. You know with different economies that they were they were raised in to simply state that there's no perspective is just happening false. Okay. And the final question in this section and in the debate in fact will come from you. Miss O'Connor and be directed first to Mr. Jameson. Thank you. Mr. Tastian in some of his materials has suggested that Arlington should consider a residential exemption. Could you please provide the pros and cons of implementing a residential exemption in the town of Arlington. Mr. Jameson. This is something that the physical resource task group has worked on diligently and presented to the media. Well through the through the select board and we discussed with Pat with current but soon to be passed the member Dan done about this. And in the years past the Board of Assessors has always said, let's start with a split rate first that a split rate is something that's going to save residential tax payers which includes apartment apartment buildings in Massachusetts. Very, very few dollars while while taxing the commercial sector, very heavily. And that's been the reason to not ever implement a split rate. The exemption would exempt us the first 50, 10 or 20% of properties of the of the average value of a home in Arlington single family home from the assessed value and redistribute that you'd still collect the same amount of funds but that would be redistributed so that about a certain point the higher in higher value properties would pay a surcharge, if you would. So basically it's a it provides you with the ability to have a graduated tax structure on the property taxes. If you combine the two of those it turns out. Okay, and have only residential occupied properties, get the residential exemption, you can you can act you can increase the split rate. The residential exception so that if you don't occupy your residents and that's a, I think 123 or four person property one person is the is the owner that counts. You can get a unified tax rate slightly higher than the rate we have now, but all commercial and non resident occupied properties would have a higher rate, and every and the lower income properties would have a benefit, and the people that have the mega mansions would pay slightly more. And I'm all for that and I think it's something we should definitely work towards. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. toss john. I actually moved from Somerville where where they did this and having a residential exemption in place. One of the pros is actually that it's it's progressive as Mr. James and stated, it would exempt, you know $100,000 or similar value directly from the highest dollar of value a con that is also that it's it's progressive some some folks don't like that they they appreciate a flat tax. So that's something to be cognizant of. Again, some people may like that the McMansions or the or the larger homes of Matt of Arlington would would bear the burden. I think the status something like 17% of the houses in Arlington would would bear that burden. I think annually the town puts out a slide about what what the impacts having a residential exemption would look like for the tax base. Another benefit of a residential exemption is obviously it promotes owner occupancy to the extent Arlingtonians find that as to be a benefit for for our town. I think there's a statistic like we maybe 95% of Arlington homes are actually owner occupied so may actually not have significant impact. But at the end of the day I do think it's a good idea and although the board can, you know, implement this. I believe the select board and promote on implementation of a residential exemption. Okay, thank you. And Miss O'Connor one minute to respond. Residential exemptions have been utilized in large cities where there was a significant commercial tax base in the town of Arlington we have a 5.4% commercial personal and industrial tax base. A residential exemption Lexington did a complete study on this and found that it would impact apartment renters in a significant way and would result in reducing apartment stock and housing to people. It would also result in significant condo conversions and would I would suggest you negatively impact seniors who tend to be in larger homes that would not receive this residential exemption. Thank you very much. And just like that we're down to the last of it and that is closing statements for each of you. Again randomly chosen the order for the closing statements will be Mr. Tosh John followed by Mr. Jameson and concluding with Miss O'Connor so Mr. Tosh John your closing statement one minute. Mr. James so in addition to wanting to bring more transparency to board I am running as a fresh face to be a new set of eyes. The seat I'm running for has been held for almost 20 years, while I commend the dedication to public service support to bring new people in from time to time. We see this exemplified in government where there are term limits for elected officials in corporate settings there's something called auditor rotations when auditors are mandated to roll off every five years to ensure there's no funny business going on. Like I said earlier, I'm belong to a younger generation than those on the board. It's important that the taxpayers in town, especially the newer and younger families have representation on the board that determines one of their largest financial obligations. Please vote for me on town election day whenever that is, and you can be assured that if elected I will take measurable steps try to make the assessment process more accessible to the taxpayers in Arlington. Thank you. Thank you sir. Mr. Jameson, your minute. I hope that you have enjoyed tonight's debate and have learned a lot about each of the candidates ready for the board of assessors. There are numerous ways by which the assessment process and the board of assessors interaction with the public can be improved. I would like to conclude the greater use of technology from simple things like adding PDF fillable forms to facilitate the completion of abatement deferral and tax credit requests to the implementation of enhanced QA QC analysis within the assessors office and using the town's GIS system to assist in those efforts and perhaps most important the simple process of searching the database for outlier values. I would like to conclude the greater use of technology to implement and add public forms both in person online to the duties of the board of director of assessments forms and presentations that detail the process and procedures employed to determine the assessed value of your land and property. Why do I think these changes are needed simple so that each of us and when we pay our property taxes note that they were based upon a fair and accurate assessment. I would like to conclude the greater use of technology to help preserve taxpayer taxpayer confidence and in closing I respectfully ask for your vote on I believe it's June 6. Thank you very much and Miss O'Connor. Thank you. The duties and responsibilities of the board of assessors are substantial in impact our town and its residents. I'm not a politically partisan job. The job is to ensure that accurate data on valuations is obtained in his uniformly and equitably applied to all properties. The values determined by the board of assessors are reviewed by the Department of Revenue to ensure that the values arrived at or obtained utilizing a methodology grounded and accepted mass appraisal practices are supported by market sales and are uniform and equitable. This is the board of assessors only agenda. I am proud to say that the values derived by the board of assessors have been reviewed approved and certified each and every year. The board of assessors does not raise a lower taxes. Notice it create value. The board of assessors duties are to ensure real and personal property in our town is assessed in full and fair cash value as required by law and to timely and objectively review property owner request for abatement. Got to cut you off there. Thanks very much though. And that will do it for today's debate before we sign off though. There are some well deserved thanks that need to be paid. First to the candidates themselves. Thank you very much for participating and for your patience and adaptability with with the new format. Thanks also speaking about the new format to our ACMI crew who have been working very hard behind the scenes to make all of this possible under the extraordinary current circumstances in which we find ourselves. And finally, thanks to you for taking the time to tune in and inform yourselves in advance of the election upcoming perhaps on June 6 this has been noted. You can access by the way the current debate and the debates for other offices that will take place over the coming weeks as well as candidate profiles in any of several ways. They are airing regularly for instance on our government channel and you can also access them at your convenience on our website at ACMI dot TV slash elections. Lastly, you can also find more useful information about the candidates and the voters guide that you'll find on the Arlington League of Women Voters website at www.lwva.com. For ACMI for the candidates for the assessors board of assessors. I'm James Milan. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.