 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello to everyone and welcome to the tent issue of the People's Health Dispatch, where we bring news about health workers and about what's going on in the field of public health and global health. And today we are talking to Lee Haynes, who is from People's Health Movement North America, and we're going to have a brief discussion about what has been going on in the U.S. when it comes to abortion care and reproductive rights. So, hello, Lee. Welcome. Thank you, Anna. Hello. Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us. And so maybe we can just start from what has been going on over the weekend. And so apparently in Texas, there were quite a few mobilizations and demonstrations by people. So could you give us some updates on that? Yeah, I was really excited to see that the mobilizations there made international. So that was really exciting. In Texas, folks gathered at the state capitol in Austin, Texas, but also in cities around the state to protest the very restrictive abortion law that was recently passed in the state. And what was really exciting about the mobilizations is that the mobilizations happen across the country because people, not just women, so looking at pictures, there were young women, older women, women, you know, of all races and classes, just looking at pictures. But I was also very happy to see solidarity from men who understand the importance of reproductive rights and justice. And so people all across the country really recognized the threat to reproductive freedom and reproductive justice of this Texas law and how if it stands or continues to stand, then the rights of people in other states, particularly more conservative states like Texas, will be threatened. So it actually sounds like a very good thing that happened over the weekend. Yeah, it was amazing. And so if you look at what has been going on for the past few months, does it correspond to what's been going on? So has the mobilization been on for a while? Or have people taken to the streets before the law was introduced? Whenever, I mean, ever since I think that there was kind of a resurgence of a women's movement, I don't want to say that a women's movement had sort of died out. But whenever Donald Trump was elected into office, there was, you know, huge women's march in Washington, D.C., and in different places across the country. And those happen periodically. And so I think that part of this is definitely that momentum. But also, I'm thinking about the Supreme Court and and the conservative lean of the court being against abortion, I'll say, and seemingly to be waiting for the opportunity to overturn law or case law that has upheld rights to abortion. I think that people really sense the urgency of that since Donald Trump's election. And even now, as at the state level, legislatures are controlled in many states by Republican, the Republican conservative party. And so we have also heard, you know, when the law in Texas was introduced, it was also paralleled by different, let's say, trends in Latin American countries, for example, where decriminalization was was supported in many of the parliaments and chambers. So that was interesting to see how, you know, the different trends happened so very close. But also what I wanted to ask that, of course, we have also heard that the abortion ban in Texas will have a very different impact on people of different classes. So have there been any experiences or testimonies already on how the ban will impact like different people in different communities? Yeah, I think that just to say a little bit about the ban, which in case some people don't know, it's and it's really interesting, as you say, considering the kind of international trend, because I know that Mexico recently basically legalized abortion and so are decriminalized. And so what is, I guess, the kind of strategic legal maneuver that the state of Texas has done is removed the duty from the state to kind of enforce, I guess, restrictions around abortion and has moved that duty to private citizens. So a private citizen can sue and bring a civil procedure against an individual, not necessarily not the woman or the person who is having an abortion, but against anyone who may have helped her or helped the person have an abortion. So for example, if my neighbor, if I think my neighbor has had an abortion, then I can file a lawsuit against the doctor, I can file a lawsuit if they took a cab to the abortion clinic or who drove them there, I can file a lawsuit for up to $10,000 against that person. And so the law kind of gives this power to private citizens to police what people are doing with their bodies. And when it comes to how this might differentially impact people, number one, and this is just from my, I guess, personal experiences growing up in Texas, I feel like there could be a very racist aspect to the law because there is a lot of policing of the bodies of people of color. And so I could very much see a person, a white person calling the police on my cousin or someone just out of racist stereotypes about and racist stereotypes and controlling of bodies of color. There is also the aspect of people not being able to afford leaving the state to get an abortion. So the law bans abortions before six weeks. So if a person, you know, number one finds out that they're pregnant soon enough, then they have to leave the state of Texas to get an abortion. Well, I should say they have to leave the state if they don't find out in time. So if they're past six weeks pregnant. And Texas is full, it's, you know, has a few urban centers where there are things like airports able to fly out of state, but that costs money. Where I'm from is a very rural area. The closest state where I, for example, could go get an abortion is about it's Oklahoma, which is about eight hours or so away by car. There's no the airport is like two hours away. So that really prohibits poor people from being able to access abortion. People who can afford a flight or afford gas or have a good car to get out of state would be able to go and access their abortion care. So yeah, so I think that those are, I mean, just not to be exhaustive, but those are some of the main concerns that people have about what this law has brought on. And you also mentioned that it will actually have a very, very concrete impact on not only the people who are going to need the abortion, but also on those who assist them. So are there any signs or updates on what has been happening with abortion clinics? How are their staff reacting? So what do they see as a response to what's going on now? What I've seen and what I've heard is that, I mean, there's a lot of anger because the law isn't based on science or medicine. There's the whole kind of, I mean, I'm not a doctor, but there's the kind of heartbeat debate and whether or not there is actually a heartbeat at six weeks and medical professionals say that what's heard on the ultrasound is not actually a heartbeat. So there's that reaction from, you know, kind of like the practice medical scientific standpoint, but then there's also doctors, nurses, healthcare workers who feel very strongly that this is unethical because there's no provision for protecting, for example, the life of the pregnant person or if it's the person who needs an abortion is a victim of incest or rape, these people will be, you know, ultimately forced to carry these babies until term if they don't find out they're pregnant in time to have an abortion. There is recently one doctor did go ahead and do what he thought was best for his patient and performed an abortion after the six-week cutoff period, if I can say it that way. And there hasn't been any, like no one's filed any civil suit against him, but from a legal perspective, that's important or it's an important thing to have happened with this law because, you know, it reached the Supreme Court already and the Supreme Court of the U.S. refused to rule on kind of the constitutionality of the law because there's no state action required, it's all for private citizens. And so if somebody does, you know, file the civil suit against the law against the doctor who performed an abortion, then this can kind of make its way through the courts in order to determine whether or not this abortion ban in Texas is legal and can stand or not. And so how does this impact what's happening in other states? Have you seen any, like, shows of solidarity which are out of the ordinary or can you see similar trends happening in other states and what is being done there? Well, I mean, the one trend, which is not a good trend, is that other states are emboldened to pass more restrictive abortion laws. For example, I believe it's in Mississippi where they have a law that's as restrictive or more restrictive as the Texas law. I'm sorry, I'm not sure of the details, but that law is going to be debated and voted on in their legislature. And so there's a lot of outcry and protest of that law potentially passing. And I also think that the demonstrations over the weekend are a beautiful show of solidarity. I don't know, I think maybe people know that Texans, we get made fun of a lot. And yeah, on internet forums, it's very much like, ah, Texans want to go their own way and they shouldn't have voted for these people if they didn't want to have that happen to them. But that the kind of feeling of solidarity from the broader public in the U.S. is, I feel it, it's very welcome. And so I think that people really do understand like the threat, not only for Texans, but also across the country. And finally, they're the lower house of the Congress, the House of Representatives of the U.S. government has been talking about actually codifying abortion in statute right now. The right to abortion is protected only by case law. It's not part of any like actual statute. And so the House of Representatives at the national level has been talking about drafting a law and, you know, kind of debating a bill to codify the right to abortion, which is an incredible step. Okay, so that's actually sounds great. And it's a good way to wrap up. So do you see that happening? Or do you see anything in particular that's needed to make it happen? Gosh, I really want to be optimistic and say, yes, I see it happening. But the way that the U.S. government is functioning these days where pretty religious evangelical religious and very conservative, but also just kind of anti the other side. I think that the bill may pass through the House of Representatives, but not likely the Senate. There will be elections coming up at the end of next year for this House of Representatives and the Senate. So depending on what happens there and who gets more control of the houses of Congress, then there is a chance that it might go through. But as far as what needs to happen, I think that, you know, people should certainly keep showing up to demonstrations, keep voicing their anger and dissatisfaction with what's happening with abortion rights in individual states, but also in the country. And there is also, you know, the opportunities to be able to contact your representatives at any level, very local, state, national level to voice your concerns. And especially what these laws mean for people's lives because, you know, the folks, and this is the story all over the world, the folks who are making laws generally don't have a good understanding or feel for, you know, the daily, really personal impacts of their decisions on people's lives. Thanks. Thanks so much, Lee, for agreeing to do this. Thanks for speaking to us.