 Good morning. Greetings. How are you? I'm very well on yourself. Good. Good. I It is on my schedule today at noon to get my first shot. Oh Not yet, I had a near-miss incident yesterday So yesterday April got her first shot and I went along not having an appointment or anything I'm like cheese. No, the system has forgotten me because I typed myself in and then as I'm waiting for April to get out of the Observation period a guy comes out and says who here doesn't you know could use a shot We have some we may have some spare doses and So I'm like, you know hand up and it turns out that seven of us outside Need one and it turns out they appear to have seven doses left So I might need some rock and I'm gonna get my shot now I go in and they start to register us and then I end up at a guy who's the newbie He can't find me in the system, but then his supervisor can't find me in the system So then he has to create my new record blah blah blah blah blah blah blah By which time I see all the other people standing in front of the other operators have gone around the corner to get their shots And then as I go to the corner the guy who brought us all in says hold on a sec. Let me check and guess what? No more doses So then they so then they kindly made like a first next appointment for me, which is like today noon That's great. Well, I'm fully vaxxed Me too. We have a friend who works for Marin County Health Department and she said If you want a shot, I can get you in I said, I don't want to jump the line You know, there's people that need this before me She said no, we have this list that we create and if people don't show up We don't waste any doses. So if I call you can be here in 15 minutes She called me at quarter of eight at night and I'm like, I'm there and I got awesome Yeah, yeah, that's great. Like we're not wasting doses seems to be a good priority I love that. So we had our first actual social weekend last weekend. We we met with friends all of them fully vaxxed outside. We were hugging We were oh my god. It was like unbelievable. I remember hugging. Yeah It's so, you know, it's really lovely to be able to get with your friends who have been vaccinated and You know sit down and not be paranoid and hug each other and share a meal and laugh and talk It was it was almost like normal and very weird to be normal again Yeah, I'm gonna have to deprogram myself. I So mid mid lockdown a couple friends came through town and invited us to dinner like outside Especially just this whatever and April was was busy and couldn't but I went and joined them And even as I was walking toward the dinner, I had weird things happening in my head and body I was like, blah and then I get there and we're sitting outside across the table from each other and the first words out of Their mouths are oh, we just both got over COVID. I'm like Wish wish you could have told me that a little earlier Hard enough that I'm sitting here psychologically dealing with with like even sitting across the table from people who are not April Right and we had a lovely time and I didn't catch COVID from them and all it was quite an adventure, but I was That my equivalent here is I Realized that I started thinking about the world like Matt Damon on Mars Like the whole environment could kill you you have to be really careful and protected like bubble boy as you go outside And I'm like, wow, that's gonna be really hard to hit undo on in my head later Gonna be a tough one And you don't want to in some ways. I mean if you can wear a mask well Inside a building you should I mean it's partly because that's Signaling to the rest of the world that they don't have to worry about you. Oh, yeah The other option I think is we're gonna all spray paint a big V on our forehead and Because otherwise, you know people are gonna freak out. They're still Protecting me you're not Totally true. Well, we're also not gonna get a clean end to this thing India's developing new variants as fast as Brazil is we I started to interrupt here, but I Am really stressing out because we we have a major center for Carnegie in India in Delhi some of our most talented people working on technology and India is just over the edge. I mean they the the head of the center was using the word catastrophe It's just ever been It's war zone. Yeah, really and and what's scary the fuck the FT did a article yesterday. They have a data reporter who's extraordinary and They're seeing 10 times as many deaths as are being reported due to COVID by counting the the number of people being cremated and So the the number of cases is 314,000 Just yesterday. Whoa two days as many as the US has had to date. Yeah, and The reports are 2,000 deaths, but it's more likely 10 to 20,000 and What's really sad is that the age distribution is Getting younger the people in the hospital are younger, which is apparently due to two things the variant is more dangerous to younger people the new variant and The elderly are being triaged I mean, they can't get beds at hospitals and Often the dead the the you know the 75 year old grandmother who gets COVID is assumed to be all but dead Yeah, and they're running out of oxygen and supplies and everything. Oh, it's it's horrifying and it's The curve is going up steeper than anywhere else in the world the Spanish flu killed 5% of the population of India and They're not going to be able to even though they make a lot of the vaccines I don't see how they're going to get most of the people vaccinated the Spanish flu killed 675,000 Americans, but the population was much smaller than who what do who knows the proportion Pardon about three to one I think So the what percentage of the population was that well back then the population was about 70 or 80 million Okay because the Spanish flu destroyed American society and so much so that we didn't talk about it afterward Like nobody wanted to go back to those memories and more Americans died from the Spanish flu than died in World War one Etc. Etc. It was really traumatizing and it should be because it should have been actually called the Kansas flu Because it started at an army base in Kansas And then we exported it. Yeah, we sent it with our go boys to Europe and blame and blame them I have two questions. What why why is the India outbreak come so late in the whole game? It's like a year since you know, we all started obsessing about this thing Well, we're more than a year and second is what if we're not looking at a pandemic, but it's the beginning of a pandemic era Well, there's a lot of people who are saying that and just the fact is is we're interacting with animals so much more and there's so much more globalization and there there have been viruses and bacteria that can cause back and Andemics popping up all over the place for years, but they've often isolated in the jungle and Congo and people didn't travel and they There was it was well main well well constrained But the India did a total lockdown. They mean they really they just you know, they all them a really really really reacted strongly and it completely disrupted their economy for about a month or so and so the first wave was held down the second thing is If the climate is such that you can do a lot of things outside and The third is that like parts of East Asia people often, you know hold a Veil sorry or something or wear a mask for other reasons But but what's happened in the last I mean a month ago Mr. Modi stood up and said well India has conquered COVID, you know, we're back to normal So all the sporting events all of the 1,000 person weddings Everybody took the masks off. Yeah, and just it was completely Trumpian. It was almost as bad as Bolsonaro Yeah, yeah, so back to the other question like, you know, not will there be a pandemic here? It's a fair chance of that. But what if there is what if we are in, you know, decades of cycling pandemics from various sources years or decades What happens in the world? What happens to society? You know, Jerry, you were talking about turning off switches in your head How how will we encounter and deal with that? Anybody either thinking about that or seeing people are thinking about that because I've heard one or two people I think you're the second might go talk about that. I'm not be certainly not in the public discourse in any way But what if this is the rest of our lives in some form? Is that a crazy question to ask? It's not a crazy question to ask Take a look at Vietnam for example, I mean they had virtually no death I mean, it's less than a hundred so far last time it was like 20 some they Instantly mobilized the pandemic response plan. They had put in place during the sauce Problem Japan I mean in these countries is perfectly normal to wear a mask everybody runs around in the subway Wearing a mask. I think we just have to adjust our behavior And that's and when you look for example the flu, we had virtually no flu cases last year Because everybody's wearing a mask so it didn't it didn't get to spread So yeah, I think it's part of the new normal We just haven't cut on to it in the Western world The Asians have been because of their population density have had far more experience with with these polemics Guess how many Americans under the age of 12 died from the flu last in the last cycle? Is it zero one? And that's a number that's usually hundreds Flu has been wiped out by masking and by a bunch of other stuff the flu's the flu numbers are way way way down Yeah, but there's still annual deaths just that it's been it's normal and And co it is not normal yet I mean basically we needed we have immune systems inside our skin And then we have societal immune systems outside our skin and some societies are better at the ladder or so far have been and Others are being hit hard. I mean province of interior in Canada is having a similar experience on the lower scale than India We're suddenly there There was a notice sent out that if you don't have a 70% chance of surviving ICU You're on your own buddy That's a province of Ontario. Wow And how do they determine that is it a sort of a checklist Morbidity is probably yeah, they have to triage basically I've read and I don't recall the source that that people in that status have a very small chance of surviving even in an ICU So it's so it's a triage of resources. It's it's it's you know, it's it's cruel and it's not cruel It's you know, it's it's tough. There's you know, if the resources are scarce you're not going to apply to people have no shot at surviving Dr. Do you want to jump in? Yeah Any kind of pandemic is now going to intersect with what's happening with climate change, which is going to make it very messy to follow What's happening? Say more about that. Well We're already getting migrations and extreme weather events that are happening with climate change and those are going to increase which is going to make the Pandemics look like just noise in the background. Yeah, I did a hearing for Gore back in 1990 called climate surprises and The goal was to say what are the follow-on effects, you know, what's the Rube Goldberg? Chain of events that's going to cause Really really serious things. We hadn't anticipated and one of them was migration So all these people are moving back and forth homeless and that that makes it hard to control a pandemic but the other one is that you don't have cold winters in parts of the southern US and So, you know the Zika virus can start surviving malaria starts showing up, you know, it's really You just don't you don't put all these pieces together because it's you know, three steps removed But sometimes those triggers lead to some really serious consequences I was reading to an article about the greening the Sahara the Sahel Movement there's kind of a people who are busy trying to figure out how to regreen the Sahel because it used to be green and and You know humans have managed to desertify a lot of parts of the earth that didn't start that way And what was interesting was both from migratory birds Used to stop there, but there's nothing for them to stop there on anymore but also that the weather patterns that were being interrupted by the desertification and And and sort of pointing to different places on earth where suddenly like, you know The building and remembering a little bit of it now and this is kind of related But the building of vacation homes on the on the coast of Spain has caused larger flooding in Germany Because whether they used to dump rain in Spain because it had picked up moisture from marches and wetlands on the coast of Spain Doesn't have those wetlands anymore isn't picking up the humidity So it travels further inland into Europe and causes, you know, other kinds of patterns and there's there's lots of this going on And it's all of course complex a word. We're starting to hate love. I think Similar to what happened in Southeast Asia about 15 years ago when the Coastal waves were battering like Thailand and It turned out that because they cut down the mangroves to build vacation resorts The mangroves have previously absorbed the energy of the waves. Yep, exactly. And the mangroves are also good tsunami defense Natural tsunami defense systems So so there's a lot of I wish I were wearing my undue t-shirt My favorite t-shirt has a big eraser on it with a with a command Z on it like the undue key And it feels to me like there's so much like undue we have to do a Lot of which is profitable like I don't think this is like we need to undo the economy I think that we need to figure out how to get there And I know that Al Gore when I got to hear him once in person his first question was I don't understand why Conservatives don't see climate mitigation as a great new business opportunity I don't understand why that idea doesn't creep inside their heads. Doug. Did you want to jump back in? Yeah, it seems to me that the outcome of this it's likely to be a move towards monopolization of big data algorithms Google Amazon and Governments to manage the world centrally as a single Well, we're moving like the big article in the times a couple yesterday the day before was that there seems to be a world a global crackdown on the big tech companies that that There may be uniform regulations that take down the monopolists on big tech Which then if we listen if I if we follow your thesis means that either governments become the big data holders and monopolists There are or something else happens and I don't know how that plays out There's going to be I think there's going to be a lot of Big big tracking through our through our smartphones and all that And there'll be a one month or two months of production of a vaccine you know the speed up the Radically speed up the vaccine process the speed up the tracking process everybody'll know where everybody is and Who got near anybody else who had it? It's gonna be a wild scene It's gonna be a wild scene We may look back on the pandemic years as the good old days When things were relatively quiet And partly enforced quiet because we were all driven inside and couldn't meet But partly because all the complications that we're talking about right now haven't sort of shown up And manifested themselves as fully as they may in the next decade or two So thank you for all of you in this room who are trying to mitigate that and and do good things to to fix that Um, let's go to a check-in round and I'll start with uh kevin judy uh michael Thanks I've been working as People who are on this thing know this thing called a community equity fund which is friends and family funding for black and brown Entrepreneurs in business owners that don't have a rich uncle So they can't get into the debt funds that are out there with community development finance and uh We've suddenly taken a massive step forward kind of crazily We've been adopted into our county's annual budget Like 700,000, you know five weeks ago. We were at 19,000 And the foundation that was going to give us 125,000 is now saying please take 260 And our metric is going to be really simple, you know, this 90 of black owned businesses are sold for priors But nobody focuses on them in charlotte where it's 95 1 employee Black owned business There are three accelerators for startups and nothing for the 95 who've been around for two or three years And can't get into that system And so our metric is going to be uh, how many sold for priors become job creators and how many jobs and uh, what's the revenue and what's the increase in income and Because we're talking about this at a conference The uk is looking at it and we've written a piece It's being circulated in parliament and in downing street And they're looking at possibly doing this at two billion pounds and they're uh, I can put that link up here But it's it's a pretty interesting kind of thing it's We figured out the kind of capital that they need it's a mix of philanthropic equity with revenue share And partly it's not that we're geniuses. We've done it wrong two or three times But the other thing is almost nobody's focusing on you know businesses that have 50,000 revenue There's one employee that has you know, there's no reason for a separate checkbook. So interesting stuff It's kind of crazy how it's you know Five weeks ago. We were at 19,000 and now we're above a million and they're talking about replicating it two billion. So anyway I'm treating them treating them. I've got a another question. Yeah. Yeah a quick question in terms of the The financial structure legal structure that you're doing this under are you using a 501c3 and a c-corp model or what are you doing? Yeah, we're well, so I can go into I mean, we're using a uh community developer corporation Which is the 501c3 and we're partnering with cdfis which get the money from the community reinvestment act to do the due diligence And underwriting and that sort of thing When we do it through church congregations and we're doing it with kids white kids learning with black kids about the problems and stuff We're doing it through a donor advice fund to us To us and to a community development corporation. Okay, what's that? It would be interesting to just cover this offline as a podcast or something for people that are interested because I'm working with organizations that would be wanting to use it Yeah, it's it's it's pretty cool. And you know by having everybody on a common accounting platform and helping them get there through a bookkeeping co-op Then we're also Instituting or getting them to be members of cooperative purchasing. So their cost of cell phone and electricity and Office supplies all go down through the collective but tie to another collective, you know a large collective Which actually brings me to my second question for you Kevin, which is I just realized yesterday browsing the intro tubes that you just finished the shift conference Yeah, right and which and I scrolled down and I'm like, holy crap. How did I not how did I not know about this? I apologize that I didn't you know, it wasn't in your audience But it looked really awesome. Would you like to debrief a little bit for us? Yeah, well, you know one thing about it is this was a as I told people I wasn't it wasn't my conference, but I helped helped it come along And it was done by a guy who's a really good Virtual ticket monitor The kind of thing I might market it rather and you know what I told folks You know is that so cap needed to be done by an entrepreneur because people didn't think there was a there there And now that there is a there or there This is done as a federation with revenue share. And so, you know, echoing green and village capital and the gin and All the big players where they are b labs and stuff through revenue share And so it's going to be interesting to see if conferences come back if that kind of Federation and revenue share is Is what is what happened? So it was pretty interesting and we got some really I could go further into it But some really cool things have I'm working with Andre Perry Whose book know your prices? I think really essential and with the with the Brookings Institute and with Ashoka on Looking at things that change market architecture, you know, there's a lot of folks who are saying Oh, here's a black fund manager. Here's a black entrepreneur. But actually, you know, what can reverse redlining, you know The architecture itself. I think that's people are ready for for a system change Rather than an anecdotal feature about a this or a that, you know this entrepreneur on that so I think I think When we started so we enhanced the The ability of the existing market to allow, you know, you to think like a philanthropist and act like an investor and now We want to blow the fucker up. So anyway, that's that's our simple goal Um, thank you Um, that's super interesting. And if there are some standout presenters or other people from the conference and 2ds whether the conference is going to be posted to youtube or whatever. Do you know? Yeah, it really soon And there's some really good You know, I'm a big fan of Andre Perry and know your price. It's a fascinating book He goes back and looks at his poor neighbor and he grew up, you know Kind of in the hood and and with a grandmother and passed around a bit And but he looks at his neighborhood both as a kid who grew up in the hood and as a Brookings scholar And and so it's this double lens thing if anybody knows the book maps and dreams Where it's it's looking at indigenous reparations in canada from an anthropological and uh and a A project planning standpoint. It's it's that double lens of of a scholar and an anthropological look at things I think it's it's the best book around that kind of stuff But I mean, there are a lot of other really good ones too for sure Yeah, we could be possibly into let's talk offline But I think this particular topic is worthy of guild request or whatever we want to call it within ogm Just to get people who are knowledgeable to share information with people who want to be knowledgeable Yeah Yeah, with with the spin out of the thriving community fund, which is the stuff we do in in persistent groups We just take philanthropy and we don't make people think differently on the front end It's just that then the money's coming back and you have to think about what the heck to do with it And the white folks aren't in charge. That's the thing that's kind of kind of cool about it Love that. Yeah, thank you. That's awesome. Awesome. Check in love that. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes the lights off channel I'm Judy Michael Julian Oh, I'm up to my neck and all kinds of things you are but pretty much good things Lots of work going on in ogm and I've been connecting with selected individuals Who are interested in I mean we talked briefly about diversity issues and inclusion and opening But but we have to kind of start at the bottom. We have to infiltrate and I don't want to use the word infiltrate We need to join and learn from all of the people who are not part of the group In order for them to be interested to join our group and bring their perspective to our table But I think we need to learn their perspective first and gain trust And so I'm infiltrating everything I can Through any context that I have and sort of telling all the organizations I work with look, we're looking at this upside down We're looking at what can we do because we're established. We need to be looking at What do we need to understand about the groups that are not established or enabled such that we can help them And then you build a relationship. So that's where all my energy is going but it's on You know local state and national levels All in a sort of sub rosa-ish kind of thing because i'm just coming in as a catalytic question asker That sounds great And in sort of this general interest of that thing I'm I've been on a couple events that angel acosta has hosted and he's invited me in to be in one of his fellowship forums The link i'm putting in our chat right now and we're chatting on the matter most So we can preserve the chat between sessions and I was on One of I was on a Recent fellowship forum session with michael eric dyson Which was magical It was really amazing and we get we were already halfway into a really interesting session and then angel asks michael So talk about hip hop for a little bit And it What I don't know among the millions of things I don't know is that he's an authority in hip hop and he he starts to recite sort of chat He starts to quote different hip hop artists Weaving them into Philosophic traditions and the topic at hand in the call in this beautiful spontaneous way And everybody's just starting to rock with the whole call. It was fabulous. It was really really interesting so That set a really high bar, which I will probably not hit in my little fellowship forum but anybody who wants to join register for the event it should be fun and angel is is sort of Hosting a really beautiful group that that cares a lot about mindfulness and So compassion and a bunch of other things that don't get enough airtime As we've all figured our way forward to To some sorts of solutions and all these things Um, so sorry, judy. Did you have anything else you wanted to check in on? No, uh, kevin. Are you willing to take calls and stuff? Is it was it kevin or does that I was talking to I think it was kevin. Kevin's gone Okay, he had to drop off. Yeah, okay I thought it was kevin, but then I looked and he wasn't there and I thought oh no did I capture the wrong name He was a drop of water briefly and then he vanished well I would invite others in this room to think about the nascent capacity to form learning groups not to to necessarily have a quest but to Engage with learning groups because I think that's where we could have real impact And learn a lot as well as help other groups learn. So That's my plug. Thanks judy. That's perfect. And if you can't reach kevin Flip me an email and I'll reply copying him and you'll be off and running Um, michael julian mike Hello As I as I posted in the the matter most chat i'm um Doing a few things at once today But there's a social media summit that mit is sponsoring that has some Good good talking heads on their panels. It's a little bit A little bit You know the stuff that's being said is kind of tired stuff that we've heard before especially if we've seen the social dilemma But there are some people getting into solutions and I just also I wanted to jump on what judy was saying about You know being in other groups and this Not being um You know we we've talked about it and we talked about it in in some of the offline conversations about the diversity of the group, but I also think it's It's been great to realize that You know as I'm sure we all know We're not the only group of people on zoom calls having these conversations about how these same problems get solved and being A part of as many of those conversations as you can is great I Like i'm really wondering how um How to bring I don't know who here is interested and being part of um things that are going on uh, you know with the collaboration for uh ethical sorry, um, hi, there's so many of these acronyms that i'm forgetting which one i know uh collaborative Technologists alliance Which um, I know came up in uh in a meeting that uh I was watching that jerry You had had with with liensburg But there are people there from other platforms that already exist And you know, we're addressing stuff like um Universal standards for profile fields that I know that vincent and uh, pete were having a conversation about Just between the two of them that would be great if they i'm sorry that neither of them are here today, but um You know it'd be great if they were part of that conversation, too um and uh I don't know. I don't know who here is eager and adding to their their uh zoom meeting schedule with more more conversations like this a lot of them more You know specific and technical than this one is and I don't mean like you have to be a cto to participate in it But just they're like, you know, well, what do we do about this specifically? um, but uh If anybody wants in on that i'm really happy to connect so So thank you for that and I think part of what you're pointing to is something we need to conquer better as o gm whatever that is, but How to broadcast interesting events so that anybody who's listening can go Oh, that one sounds like good for me and we can all meter our zoom overload god willing and you know work our way there But then how efficiently to feed back into the mix into the the stew we're brewing together What we've learned what really mattered what the insights were and who else to you know Who else to invite into the conversation? Whatever that might be so that so that there's lots of different board of seas because there's you know Each of us is involved in a bunch of cool activities How do we become the the stew pot where we can sort of make some of those connections and and take it a couple levels higher and then and They're right right in the next couple weeks. We're going to do some more organizing about what goes where in our infrastructure So that'll be a little clearer Hopefully that will help some but we also need to do some storming as a group About how we'd like to do that But let's just keep that in the back of our heads judy off to you I would just offer the short comment that what we need is is a Pete Kaminsky in every room So i've got some cheeks all the combination of the summary And and the digitizing of it into a repository would allow all of us to then get the nuggets without sitting through the seven hours of the day Yeah, can't spare the seven hours of the day So we would be scanning this and not knowing with the wise eye Well, I don't want to miss john's talk and susan's talk and joe's talk But I can miss the others and get the summaries later somehow from somebody And that's the efficient way for us to learn as a group or at least it's how I learn Because I I look at gaya fest and it's like oh this all looks great But I don't know who the key speakers are right unless you're identified as a keynote And I might miss the gem that's in the sixth talk because i'm not there all day And in a lot of cases there is you know, it is something that is Uh an artifact of the event that can be shared, which is great Um and you know in in situations where I get a chance to do that It's just not always shareable with people that didn't register for the thing So sometimes even if you can't go it makes sense to register so you can get hold of the artifact And even I would appreciate, you know, if if there's an event I should register so I can get the scripts Tell me, you know, I can probably afford the registration fee if it's not seven hundred dollars or something You know, some of these are free and some are pricey Yeah, but if it's worth it because of some proceedings or some way that I could go back and hear selected talks That's way better than streaming crap on Netflix One thing to do is check the hashtag on twitter and see if there's a cascade of comments after one panel You know, and sometimes it will say I can't believe this. This is amazing Oh, that's exactly a great suggestion mic. Thank you for that Sometimes there's 50 times more comments about one panel. Yeah long ago. I wanted to start a service called don't miss this Which basically and and it would have to have multiple editors because you'd follow the editor you liked But but basically if there was a sporting event, like I don't really track sports. I'm not a huge fan I'm a i'm a leonel messy addict So like love watching him like get past people on youtube, but but if there was a don't miss this service I would I would then feel less fomo, of course But but that might be an interesting way to cure your things. Gil, please Yeah, judy, I would I would subscribe to the service you're describing I'd pay for that and it would be cool to have that as kind of a very low price tier on all participating conferences You know people who can't go can't pay the 700 bucks here for 30 bucks. You get the digest The the constraining factor though isn't people's Willingness to pay me. I saw a whole bunch of you nod your heads. Yes. It's how many pete's do we have? Jerry's coding exercises way behind plan and but totally what is it? What is it take to train up somebody to be a pete or a jerry? I've seen I've had jerry There's actually a lot of a lot of journalism schools are starting to do those kinds of things So there might be interns or other people that would do this You know and they'd there'd be a learning curve But I don't I'm just thinking out loud here But the the infrastructure behind the communication of important content is at the heart of journalism And so it might be that we could I don't know create a mini guild of journalism interns within ogm And get them started because the feeder stream of these editors I'm envisioning all of these people with these millions of skill sets as helpful editors to discern You know the real nuggets Something of some kind of tiered structure like that that's very Inclusive, you know where people want to be on this because you know They're willing to do x-hours free because they want to see what it's about and then maybe they'll get hired and so forth I don't mean to make this a business. I'm just trying to make it cost-effective and self-sufficient There actually is a business there There actually is a business there for someone to start so a couple things I want to throw back in the conversation first I do have a closet here with little pete clones incubating and i'm teaching them all linux right now Um, they're getting stuck on grep. I don't know why it seems like an easy enough thing But they can't seem to get past that and but they can all install docker, which is really cool um second One of the things that's really interesting is that um what we do in ogm Is a really great conference enhancement process before during and after Like like one of the things we can be is a continuous memory across conferences and between the same conference over time Because one of the problems socially is that we just don't have an ongoing memory We don't have a place to put things so as we get closer toward having An open global mind platformish thing that could be a place to put these things and michael You've got a company called factor which could could become a piece of this like like i'm really interested in that conversation and how Uh, how to be how to become collectively that shared memory over time Then second thing is i'm just typing in my notes to myself uh here Into the chat second thing is years ago. I did a couple not enough of them But I called them five minute universities and it's a format. It's an in-person format I invented for my retreats and it was like um Just put the put a call out whoever wants to speak for only five minutes on something They know a lot about Then one of the one of the nicest ones we ever had was jp ranga swami talking for five minutes about how to make the best bolognese sauce Because he traveled around italy and it only bolognese sauce until he found the best one then he grilled the cook and said You must tell me your recipe and then he told us how to make a bolognese. That was a five minute university But i've got a couple online for some of my favorite books But if we then if we summarized our favorite works the things We know a bunch about and and like to distill it and put it in very small capsules I think that helps us process things because my reading stack my kindle reader on my ipad Has way too many books in it and I can't seem to get back to sand talk to goddamn finish it Oh, no, no, wait. I have to read cast. Oh, damn it. I've got like these other books that are like You know totally eating my brain. So if we can help each other dissolve these things and process the nutrients and remix them I think that's really useful third Mavena, so I tried to convince pete years ago pete sent an apology on our chat earlier saying he's helping David bolville do the gaya fest which i'll explain last year But I tried to convince pete to start a practice called mavenology because if you look at Gladwell's book the tipping point. He talks about salesman mavens and connectors Right and pete like in my joke for 20 years now has been in you know in in the dictionary where it says maven There should be a little dot portrait of pete because he's like the ur maven for me But if he could train a cadre of mavens to go do this I think every business meeting every community meeting ought to have mavens on hand who do the research and feed the collective memory And all of that so there's I think there's a there's a possibly several businesses to be had around this Which i'm very interested in As for benefits as whatever that Feed data trusts and commons with collective information That over time become the basis for how we make better decisions together So so I think we're we're ending up in this conversation with many of these threads is extremely og me I feel forgive the verb Or or adjective I guess and then the last thing is that this afternoon I and a few other people will be participating in a kind of quickly put together event called gaya fest That I will ask pete for the best link to I think gaya fest.org now at least is to a baby web page But we'll be on zoom showing sort of mind mappy tools around climate change And mark trexler will be there with his climate web and a bunch of others of us will be sort of sharing Some ideas around it to kind of set up a conversation that is aiming Further down the road toward cop 26, which is happening in glasga this year in october, I believe and the goal david bulville has a sort of Trying to work together to present some interesting things around climate change then at at cop 26 and Mike go ahead. This is at aspen. This is the two sentence rule. Oh good. There is a Books for CEOs Basically, it takes the 200 page book and turns it into 12 pages and the second thing if you haven't gotten familiar with the I think it was called the good judgment project when it was at eye arpa And it's now a company led by terry murray called Yeah, it's called the good judgment project And they did a really interesting seminar yesterday talking about how they tap into these mavens And predictors it's it's all focused on forecasting, but it's more sophisticated than the delphi method and it's really Really up your alley. I'll I'll send you some notes about it. So they were funded by eye arpa Yeah, just put it in the chat so that we yeah, that's what i'm going to do. I'll put it in the I just put a link to my brain for it with lots of context because I followed it and it comes out of The philip tetlock and the super forecasting stuff and his book super forecasting is super interesting Yep, uh read it years ago. So it's it's really interesting. It was funded by eye arpa Yeah, I'll put a link to the interview with the zeo Yeah, so in my brain under it it says When when This this is from an article called the peculiar blindness of experts and the quote says when making an argument foxes often use the word however While hedgehogs favor moreover Okay, then um so Let's go back to uh julian mike craig Sorry ken before that ken just a real quick thing um to let you know that um I have taken your idea of five and university into keekalab and we now have on keekalab every week The hot seat where someone comes in talks for five minutes about something and there's 10 to 15 minutes of questions and answers So five minute university lives on in keekalab as a hot seat Thank you. I love that. I love that Okay, now julian mike craig All right Well, my check-in is not as substantial as the others because i've been dealing with lots and lots of distractions trying to get a handle on managing those So I can get some work done I at least have an incentive and that's a graph is in three months and I need to have some major demonstrations ready by them So i'm looking forward to next week when I can start working on that Uh also feeling much safer now that i'm out of the safety zone after the second shot Um as a total distraction from what we've been talking about I've mentioned before I used to be the chief scientist at lego Lego has a podcast series talking about the history of their different digital efforts over the years I'll put a link in the chat to the episode that came out last month about the group that I was in And then uh, finally, this is a you heard it here first thing Last week one of the vendors I deal with frequently convinced me to have a workshop Many years ago. I organized the nasa virtual iron bird workshop which dealt dealt with what we called knowledge integrating virtual vehicles But as you know, this was this was based on the space shuttle and you know, that was el the long time ago So this time it's going to be a more general workshop The technology of interdisciplinary knowledge management unless I can come up with a snazier title Uh, but this will be very much focused on going all over the place and tying them all together And also it's going to be organized in the safe time because I think the personal communication is absolutely essential Uh, there's any kind of zoom or online is only really only going to be just for monitoring We really really need the hallway conversations and you know, you just can't do that on zoom or any of the other platforms So I'm presuming this is going to come out next year just to make sure that things are absolutely safe You should just put a little bit about that In the chat and matter most so that it's there and maybe your contact information Right now the the only little bit I have is that title so okay But I'll I'll be working on refining that because of course that that's the kind of thing that needs like a year advanced knowledge for people And julien have you crossed past with a guy who did the mini chef restaurant? No The lego thing So there's a restaurant. I think at lego land There's a restaurant called mini chef. I can post a link to it But you order you you sit down at a table and to order you open little kit of legos And you make your order with the little kit of legos And then you submit that and then your food shows up on a conveyor And you can then watch as your as your food order is assembled behind the curtain basically And then your order shows up on a conveyor that rolls down in a big lego Which you open up and it would contain whatever your meal was It's it's it's hokey, but it's it's cute and the guy who designed this whole thing. I met just a few months ago, so That's uh That was one of the things we were trying to do with l3d back in the 90s Was that people could design their own models and send off the bill of materials To lego and a few weeks later get back the kit with those bricks in there They sort of carried that out with lego digital designer and then abandoned the idea I guess because the fulfillment cost was too high You know With thousands of lego bricks available just took too much time for somebody go and pick through and get the right count especially because You get tired and you pick up a little piece and boom it falls on the floor and then it's under a counter Yeah, it'd be fun to do now with the 3d printers But I don't know if 3d printers are if the materials are durable enough or precise enough to make lego parts They're not Damn Well, wait a minute. They will make lego compatible parts, but not replacements Oh, okay. Well, that's that that's better than I thought Let's go Mike Craig Stacy Well, you heard the most emotional part of my week which is This growing angst about covid um I really think this has been driving a lot of my neuroses for at least a year and Back in summer of last year. I was looking at what was going to happen to india and thinking about what chaos could happen But set that aside Two of the most exciting things i'm working on right now are the internet governance forum usa and if anybody has any ideas on People who can really help us understand why we haven't gotten good digital identity yet I'm all ears and if you don't have a name give me an article or a blog The second question is we're looking at the evolution of online markets and online communities And so i'm going to call up april and see if I can get some of her time And then the last one is the one that's the most difficult and It's The title is it's 2025 Can my apps work everywhere? four scenarios three of them bad So the question is how could the Nations of the world do things that would make it impossible for a five person startup to Serve 10 million people around the world um what might happen that would make it impossible for me to take my little devices and Have them work in All the countries I visit on my next round trip Really important issue and and this is this is the most influential internet governance meeting in the us each year So we're looking for some really good people To help us frame these issues um That's the main thing um the other big news is Yesterday was our One month anniversary of our wedding so yeah So we celebrated by getting our second covet shot. Yay And no side effects. Yay. Oh, that's that's great. Yeah. April got her first shot yesterday. I get mine. Yeah Did you do Pfizer or Moderna? I did Pfizer and I did it in the morning. So it's been 24 hours I'm I had no I've been a lot of friends who have had a lot of hellish side effects. So it's not I consider myself lucky Mike, it's such a 2021 way to settle have an anniversary. Yeah. Yeah One of my theories is that the people who have well challenged immune systems that aren't germaphobes Already have a lot of inherent intrinsic communities and they have less reaction than people who have been really germaphobic and haven't challenged their immune system So their immune system is just gearing up the Spanish flu took out The the flower of youth because the stronger your immune system the faster it got turned against you Then you could you could die within 48 hours or less with the Spanish flu like Donald Trump's grandfather was walking with him down the street one day and two days later was dead of the Spanish flu It was just devastating But it took out very healthy the the better your immune system the faster you would succumb to the Spanish flu go ahead Gil Yeah, my wife had a stem cell transplant six months ago She's a few days away from getting her second shot Pfizer And we just discovered last week that nobody really knows how effective this vaccine is for people who've had stem cell transplants Wow, yeah We're asking around and it just didn't come up in the discussions with our doctors We found some literature saying, you know might not be effective. I haven't seen anything that says it might be more dangerous, but It's a lot. We don't know about this stuff Maybe she could become part of a clinical study or something like that. There may not be enough of them to know, but yeah Interesting. Thank you. Um, let's go, uh, kreg stacey ken Yo, hey folks greetings yeah, uh this reminds me of a A doctored photographer I saw on facebook. I think a year or so ago when we all started wearing masks It was the rolling stones all four of them wearing masks But not Keith Richards. He was just looking into the camera like Me No I won't get a covert shot uh until the end of the year Because i'm here in thailand. I'm a resident foreigner Um They'll vaccinate dogs before they vaccinate Human foreigners here in thailand and I'll certainly have to pay for it to probably a couple hundred bucks Wow, just to throw that into the mix. Yeah, that's Actually, we're having a Uh, quite a surge right here now in thailand. I've got a page up here somewhere With the data Thailand did a very serious lockdown in the in the beginning for eight weeks We were all at home. There were policemen and uh army officers on every street corner Just about in all the small towns you couldn't move Without a mask and you had to have a good reason to be outside. That was all nine ten months ago That ended and thailand had uh like vietnam less than 20 deaths until a month ago. Oh wow Um only a few hundred cases. I can't remember what the number was but it was very low in a country of 76 million it's uh We all have all believed those of us who live here for months that uh We're escaping it The country and the people the government everybody has done really well and it's just really not happening here And then just about two months ago Uh a couple of bus bus loads of uh people from berma came over to a place near bankock to work in factories And now today we have 46,643 cases 20 000 of them are in hospital 112 deaths wow And 90 of that has occurred in the last month And the situation in memer is horrible Just horrible on the ground in the mr So to expect that nobody else is going to try to cross borders is like crazy, too Absolutely awful, you know, I mean sometimes uh parts of america parts of europe are not Terribly civilized not as civilized as we uh as we all would like them to be but over here Um This is the only place i've lived in Southeast asia or south asia for that for that matter But I have become very uh aware that over here A human life is uh A come and go thing that humans are expendable two kids come flying off a motorcycle and End up under a bus or something people kind of shrug Not their families obviously but people around people people around in cafes or sitting at restaurants They'll watch it happen and nobody will stop eating or drinking. They might nudge each other and we'll have a look at that, you know so living uh living outside of the west Is uh is really rather different than living in the west Do you have a cultural insight into why that attitude is troubling? Do I know why? Short answer no not Not exactly but they're one of their favorite sayings is something like along the lines of buddha take care I mean you got bus drivers get on the bus in the morning at the bus station 60 people in the back and the bus driver he comes on And he gives everybody on the bus a nice gesture and then he takes his flowers that he's bought from the monks at the bus station And he hangs them up over the mirror and he gets on his seat And he prays Before he starts the bus and drives away Because buddha is going to take care Whatever happens out there on the road buddhas in charge. So we don't have to worry I'm from scotland. I never I didn't grow up thinking like this. So I still find it all I think in scotland you have like a wee dram before driving the bus, right? Yeah, we've got our solutions as well. Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole other ethic a whole other religion Yeah, so uh, I know a bit about that Let that be my check and I've got nothing else Yeah, correct. Thank you so much for the sense of what it's like where you are really I just felt transported Stacey ken john Yeah, so this has been a really interesting call for me to listen to um, I spent probably too much time trying to get into the mindset of that 10% I'm hoping it's only 10% trump cult following And particularly when it comes to the vaccines, you know, and I'm listening to everything that they have to say resisting wearing masks What comes to mind is that there's a great opportunity there for um for teaching about, you know, farming and uh What's happening to the soil and to switch like what you said before about how, um How board and understand how conservatives Conceal the financial possibilities And the reason I'm saying this is because so many of them are convinced that if we only had healthy immune systems That there would not be a reason to fear the virus and to a certain degree I mean It is important that we have healthier immune systems. And I just think that from a marketing point of view That would be a great way You know, again, we're not going to convince anybody to take a vaccine if they don't want to But if we could just push that topic aside and still engage with them And teach about what's happening to the soil and try to Just shift their focus. I think that's an opportunity that gets lost because we talk to people that believe like we do I'm saying in the general way and If they were like us, they'd be convinced already. So we have to find Other ways we have to learn to listen to what they're listening to And so I just wanted to share that Um, thanks stacey. There's a thing I learned about only recently called the terrain theory of disease that was promoted by antoine Bechon a Frenchman way back when and this sort of turned into the Pastor versus Bechon germ theory versus terrain debate And this is kind of a little bit of historical precursor toward the if you just keep yourself healthy and have the right nutrients You're going to be fine Which by the way sort of runs a bit in the face of The the thing I said a moment ago about the Spanish flu took out the people with the healthiest immune systems because it turned them against them Right. So let's pretend that you were like that your terrain was like really healthy You might in fact be the first the first picked By by the disease. So so I think so I think the whole conversation is super interesting And I it feels to me like in the last week I've seen five good articles about this and and about, you know Different kinds of approaches to how to convince people and how to have these conversations go ahead kill And then back to stacey. Yeah, the terrain versus Pathogen theory in in medical parallels the conversation in agriculture Yeah, pesticides. Do you build soil? Do you build health of ecosystem to respond effectively? A notable the pastor on his death bed Said the southern guy was probably was probably right Was probably right. Oh, that's interesting. That's fascinating. Um, stacey then john Yeah, I was I was sorry then julian you you moved on me Oh, yeah, I know I was pretty much done but I just wanted to say that what I'm talking about is Sometimes we may have to accept that we can't change a person's mind on something But we could use the parts of their argument That we agree with to you know shift our focus to something else that's important Absolutely. I love that julian go ahead I was going to mention a different terrain theory Which is that people of my generation who grew up in rural areas like I did Would sometimes end up eating dirt and when I got to college I found that it was in general healthier than my roommates That was my husband's adage. He grew up on a farm. He said we don't need to be super He was a physician too. He said we do not need to be super super careful about this I ate dirt as a kid and I'm fine, you know So I I grew up in lima peru for my first 10 years And we got there and my mom met the ladies of the american community And the expat community who were all boiling the water and keeping their kids away from all the germs and my mom's like seriously So I could drink from the hose like, you know, she said the first couple times like Bad colic bad, whatever But then I could wander around and just like not worry about street food and drinking from a hose And I remember like feeling like really free that way, but and I don't remember The other side. I don't remember my buddies having to worry that much that it wasn't an issue for me But I'm grateful for that. So I figure those germs are those Those antibodies are long out of my system, but it but for a while I was probably a little bit stronger than your average american in that way Let's go ken john class um When I was a young man, I traveled for 10 months in southeast asia and my first week in the philippines I met a man from gibraltar who actually looked a little bit like craig And he said to me, let me give you a tip. I've been traveling in southeast asia for 20 years Eat the local food where the locals eat it the way the locals eat it if you see Uh tourists in a restaurant stay away if you see locals because the the vendors can poison the tourists But they can't poison the locals and the other thing is everything was filled with hot peppers And I came to believe that there's very few things that want to live in your intestinal tract when it is filled with hot peppers um And the ultimate test was when I was on the border of india and the paul And it was 115 degrees and there was no chai vendor And the only thing there was the most disgusting drinking fountain you've ever seen And I learned that when you are thirsty, you will drink out of anything And I went over and drank from the sink. No ill effects. So uh, like you jerry, I think those antibodies are long gone, but Um, there is there are ways to build up your immune system. Um, However novel things can wipe it out the people of turtle island first nations people before the europeans Probably had incredible immune systems. Everything was local. Everything was organic. Everything was in season these folks were in superb physical condition and then All of a sudden they see something their immune system from the europeans They never had to cope with before and they're dead in a few days. So Both things need to be weighed. I think it's a very interesting thing. Yeah, um Jerry sent out an email the other day, uh To talk about this call and I no one's mentioned it yet, but I am just so much More relaxed now after the chauvin verdict than I was I was like if this goes badly There's going to be oakland's going to go up in flames, you know, berkley. I just so i'm really grateful um for the verdict and related to that um I recently finished cast and I I've been hanging out on the kiko lab calls and I observed an interaction that no one called out So I called it out. So what happened was there was a question posed of what is a big dynamic going on in the world today and a black person said slavery versus humanity And immediately a white person jumped in and said, well, I hear that but let's rephrase that to power over versus power with And no one said anything and I was distracted because I had a repair person in my house So I I wrote to charles and and lauren and they said let's bring it up the next meeting And that has led to a very very powerful conversation on race in this group um I asked the the person who said slavery versus humanity what was like for him when that person corrected me said I chose you got to choose your moments. I realized I noted it And I thought if I want to go down this and take a lot of verbiage I'll talk for half an hour about all the problems with that, you know, and so I just chose let it go But we got into a really intense conversation Of how often and this comes from cast People who feel that they're in the superior position can correct people they think are in the inferior cast Which happens to be race in this instance, right? Um, so we've just been really unpacking a lot of stuff over there and it's really fascinating to see uh, there's a very Lovely woman who's incredibly articulate talking about how she was really upset with Several of the white men because they're like, oh boo-hoo. Can't this go away? Aren't we past this we are all one We should all be human beings and she's like you guys we've been doing this for centuries And you're acting like you just want this over now. You have no stamina. You have no patience And as she's saying this the guy she was directly addressing is being defensive in the chat window with her and I'm like Will you just shut the fuck up and listen, you know, I mean you cannot learn if you're being defensive This woman is giving you really good information here and you are being defensive for your ego's sake instead of going Wow, I didn't realize that, you know So it goes to stacy's point about how do we get into the mindsets of folks who are really entrenched in a position And open it up in a way and related to that cost and I are both in this this group with the evolutionary leadership community where we're um yesterday we were on a call studying daniel christian wall's uh work on on regenerative culture And there's a woman on there who worked in the oil and gas industry and she said I I've a change agent there And I get really interested in how do we introduce And socialize ideas that that can be an extinction level threat for people in a way where they don't see it as an extinction level threat So in oil and gas a regenerative economy as a renewable economy renewable energy That's an extinction level threat for their business model And how do you engage them in inviting them into the conversation in a way where They can show up as leaders and contributors and they've got something really useful there So you have to de-stigmatize it and and take the antagonism out um And I'm like I really want to talk to you a lot more and I couldn't because it's a very short zoom breakout room but I love this idea of let's examine some of the things that we in ogm take as You know, this is just totally logical. We need a regenerative economy. Well for archer daniel's midland That's a very big threat. So how do we talk to those people? How do we invite them in in ways where that idea gets socialized into something that they say That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. Let me, you know, let me Let's let's let's work together on that. So that's some of the stuff that's putting around in my life right now A tiny link into that again ken first Thank you for everything you just brought into the conversation. It was like magical A tiny hook onto the last part of what you were talking about Many years ago. I sat down next to a at a dinner at an event I sat down next to a woman from cargill and I'm like, ah, this is going to be hard because the moment she says Oh, I was cargill. How are you doing? Whatever like, you know, adm and cargill are kind of like the green merchants of the world And then it turns out that cargill is a world-class hero about bribery They have a global policy to not make or take under the table payments And they could teach a master's class on how to get, you know, how to stop corruption Around, you know, their their business and their trade and I'm like, holy crap So so if you don't see anybody everybody is the enemy you figure out what they're good at Maybe there's a way to harness some of those energies at least There's a really nice way to enter and become friends Uh and learn a lot from them because, you know The person who's an idiot in math turns out to be brilliant at baseball stats like it's weird But we all have our quirks and our and our depths And looking for people's depths and appreciating them for those is like a really important way to To build connection and trust and and make a step toward anything Check out my posts on celeste headley that i've been putting up on the ogm forum. She is the Maven on this. She really knows how to have conversations with people And 10 tips that will really change your ability to interact Thank you. Ken. Uh, if you want to repost a little bit in the chat here Yeah, I'll I'll put it up on madam most again. So, yeah, thank you. And I've been curating those into my brain under celeste headley. So I'll I'll I'll I'll let her post like that. Um, so Uh, oops I had a list here. Uh, john claus dug george gill Go ahead john Okay, uh, thank you and uh, can just a brief Uh, hook to your what do you do if you're sitting next to cargill? You know, I had to do a workshops for oil companies as well. This is not a magic trick. I mean this doesn't Necessarily move people although I did get a division of an oil company to stop its engagement in plastic uh food partly by scaring him about cancer, but you know, the main trick we used is you write future, uh New stories that are not nightmares. They're they're plausible. You have to get somebody who will attest Yes, this could actually happen and that that wouldn't be good Okay, and then you just ask people will this happen or not? Not is it good or bad? Not do you want it? Of course, you don't want it, you know, but I mean will this happen or not? Let's collect the votes and you have them on a continuum And as the votes come in they begin to say jeez We're the voters and our votes are beginning to look Like something we don't want to see And you know, there's a real arc to this but you can try to crack open the door of well, gee if we really don't want that What are the you know, what's the scenario in which it's it doesn't have the far-reaching negative consequences that we think it will have And it like I say it doesn't always work, but it has worked in a few cases when in particular one oil company Got them out of the plastic business um as far as what i've been doing i've been uh, I like your A challenge each area by growing little peats in in the closet I think both both you and uh, peat are Unclonable, but I have been kind of doing ghost peat or ghost jerry in the sense of i've been helping other people by editing writing or editing in background around digital identity travel documents and uh some other kinds of uh details and I also I I couldn't you know, we're all overbooked There's this is the last day of something called the internet identity workshop I had trouble getting in but I got into it's one session yesterday and it was fantastic the title of the session was um now which you know got digital autonomous organization now and governance and uh all the the woman running it Uh is an expert and uh, she'd be grace. Uh, I'll I'll put I'll put something in the chat about it. Thank you. Um She said and we agree again, you know started out interested in democracy, but you realize Trying to talk about democracy and not understanding money and not and you got to understand money way beyond the the conventional concepts of money and the conventional concepts of of credit interest rate all those kind of things There's a whole bizarre fantasy world of libertarian Digital currency, you know where people say well, you know, we'll do this and you know, and we don't have government And we don't have and we don't pay taxes and we'll all get rich and you know, and it's totally nuts But you need you need to be really precise and really careful in order to indicate where the gap is In that kind of thinking and then to start thinking creatively Who's what i'm interested in as a project is how do we have a pro social pro environment coexistence of fiat and digital currencies side by side Where at least one of the digital currencies is like Eco green stamps. It's a you pay people You pay people to do good things With fiat and digital they can use their digital They could convert it back into fiat if they absolutely have to but the the rate is really poor You don't want to do that. What you want to do is you want to use the digital to buy A lot more of the good thing that you are that you were having a transaction in Including services from other other creative professionals That's it's a very incomplete vision, but that's a vision i'm working on for coexistence of fiat and positive digital Going into the future Thank you. And and There's the whole complication that most crypto well blockchain dependent cryptocurrencies are melting the earth in some sense and using up resources like crazy, so I may I may be too soon on this but i'm going to say that the The the trust communities and the proof of stake strategy Alleviates most of the blockchain problem right, right um So in the early days of the internet there was a problem because traffic was growing too fast and this guy named van Jacobson invented a protocol That compressed the headers on message over the internet And that's all like a really giant traffic issue until people started Building releasing bigger pipes to connect to the early intertubes so I see I see the optimist in me sees the global meltdown because of the Proof of work protocols as an obstacle to solve that might be solvable but to me The proof of work is such a gigantor waster on purpose That I have a hard time figuring out that we're going to sort of make it all work, but i'm i'm hopeful Gil go ahead Yeah, and someday let's talk about nft to john's point about the The hybrid currencies and reward systems. They're a stack of apps that are trying to do that out of the united states out of europe a number of other places that are In various ways letting you track your behavior score eco points convert those to some kind of currency if you had a digital and You know and buy more junk with that to more of course generate more environmental problems So interesting game underway there i'm advising one of them john is up to talk with you more about it Thanks, gill All right, go ahead stacey Yeah, I don't know if this is important or not But since I know I just want to point out that half the people when they see dao That for that d stands for decentralized. So I don't know that makes a difference, but I figured I would just say that Thank you Let's go class Doug george gill and with apologies We're gonna have to wrap the call at a minute before the top of the i'm before the half hour So we may not make it through the list Yeah, it has been it has been uh a busy week couple of weeks really but i'm i'm i'm extremely hopeful and encouraged to see how Acaculture and soil health has taken center stage in the conversation and I think it will be a big focus this week in the discussions that biden has with the world leaders on on on climate change so for example here here is an initiative that We are participating in i'm representing business climate leaders in this european sign here That's the four thousand international initiative is sort of is a key part of Convincing the world that By adding four per mil Of carbon into the soil on an annualized basis. We can basically arrest carbon emissions output And that has really that that started at the paris climate accord and has since really taken root and and In the year in the u.s. There are several organizations like regeneration international um and and a host of NGOs who have subscribed to this and and are using this as a sort of a guiding The thought process, you know where where to take this um, then we have Um, we just started uh too long. We just launched Uh another webinar that uh, I've been working on for business climate leaders as well And the the the point of this is that It's called soil carbon sequestration a systems perspective And we have in the conversation a farmer the Chief soil the chief science Officer for the american soil health institute or if you can see it in the in the clip here Who who is on the panel but um The the the way we have scripted the conversation and we are still of course advancing this Is that we want to give a systems perspective? That means if the farmer wants to convert into regenerative practices He needs to have a market to sell his products into which is currently not the case Currently only three percent of american farmers are using cover crops Three percent. I mean, it's just it's just completely astonishing But for that to advance If a cover crop doesn't become a cash crop and it's just another cost factor, you know And so the farmers are not going for it So there are a couple things happening one is That carbon markets are being established that pay the farmer on a per ton basis For the sequestration of carbon. That's a hugely contentious issue But the science is advancing very rapidly to To find Measurements that are cost-effective fast, you know and reliable But it's a complicated issue because if a farmer changes their processes then the carbon is being released again So that's one topic. But then more importantly, and this is where where and I contacted the Harvard University, you know, they have these menus of change initiative and working with the culinary institute of america there To to to help the catering industry to think through the changes They have to anticipate in their menu planning and in their sourcing strategy And that's the point of this of this webinar here that we're giving is you need to you need to queue up changes coming your way to to Link up with the with the needs of the farmer to change their practices So that's that's a And then there we have Cherry everyone engaged in In a discussion with the global regenerate the regeneration collab Which is like super promising. I mean these guys are on fire actually Responded to us with such speed and and enthusiasm that we are kind of Trying to catch our breath catching up with them. But I think that may have really some some Good prospects there. So it's good. I mean we lots of stuff happening. It's hard to keep up That it is that it most definitely is there's a lot going on. Thank you class. Um, doug george and gill Okay, uh, I keep searching for the simplest way to take a group Of executives that Are good at having tech tactical conversations But not strategic conversations And how to lift them up into the strategic sphere So I did a workshop yesterday with a group of senior, uh, government Managers And I used the following method We started out and they're told ahead that this is what's going to happen Uh talking first about where are we in the historical moment? Then shifting the discussion to okay, how did we get here? And then shifting the discussion Okay, what can happen? And then shifting the discussion to what then should we do? And it went really really well It's a it's a kind of non-method method. It doesn't put method in your face It doesn't feel controlled or or constrained or manipulated And the the the last part of the day Was really really much more strategic than anything that they had ever done before We then did a transcript of the meeting quickly with turning everything into bullet points Getting it back to the group within an hour And then with the idea that they can add to it anything they want and we'll edit it into a document So it was a great method. I really liked that it's an evolution out of doing scenarios where I always felt like scenarios were weird because it's like starting from the present going towards the future But hey, wait a minute. Very few strategic managers think that way. They're also looking at the past It's more instead of like the runner at the block. It's like sitting on a surfboard Watching a wave come riding it up letting it go Watching another one until you get the dynamics of the system and then you can make a better choice So how to turn scenarios around to doing that? So I added in this part of uh, you know, where are we? How did we get here? And uh, typically groups like this are never historically minded But when you do the how do we how did we get here? It turns out that got a lot of resources In understanding history that they never draw on So anyway, that was my day yesterday It sounds super interesting And I love the surfer metaphor of looking for the brakes because you do you have to you have to become aware of and then Figure out what the pattern is In the of the forces in the environment and we don't do enough of that nearly Thank you Doug Let's go george and then gill and see if we can squeak in under the wire here And I noticed that mark runs is in the room by the way I just see his name there and uh mark has been feeding Not a visual mind map, but rather a database of notes and other connects everybody For longer than I've been doing the brain So I'll post a link to mark in my brain in the chat, but let's go quickly to uh, george and then gill I think gill was trying to get in uh, I'd rather hear gill in me Gil, sorry were you I didn't know if your hand was up from before from new sorry You're muted now My hand was up from before Oh, okay Oh, I thought he would try I think he was trying to urgently get in as you can see I'm experimenting with audio only on zoom I That was my assumption from your curious George there. So yes And had a very interesting thing happen to me with regard to zoom there's on a 210 person zoom call and The guy was running it wanted an interactive discussion about the goals of his course and what what what he What we all wanted and all that It was on it was a course on rome advanced uses of rome and uh He'd like out he knows that I'm a very experienced audio moderator. So he just said hey george We run that half an hour of the discussion and I said sure, you know, I wasn't expecting it, but here's the way I do it So as an all put their microphones on unmute your microphones only 100 people comply. There are people who just can't do it or won't do it But a hundred people open mic and I said i'm not going to call in anybody And um, let's see what happens as an experiment Um, I've been up to 300 on audio only so I knew it was going to happen but they were all skeptical and conducted a Completely normal conversation as if we were all in somebody's living room, of course, you couldn't fit a hundred people in your living room But it worked out fine and people are buzzing about it all over twitter now about this incredible conversation people discovering audio and it's uh taking a leadership i'm taking a leadership role in training moderators on clubhouse and and uh twitter spaces um But it's more in having directed Goal goal oriented discussions most of the discussions on these On what's being now called social audio our Chat just hanging out chilling Um And that's fine that serves a social function. It's not what i'm interested in Uh, I'm interested in more purposeful problem-solving decision-making creative kinds of things And so i'm going to see if we can bring that to the different different media awesome search and When I was very I was very happy to hear that you want to give more of a purpose To these conversations because i'm beginning to wonder What are we doing? Why am I here? What's going on here? What is o gm when jerry says o gm me? I don't know what the hell that means um I'm glad to see you waving your hands and not the but you can only see me waving my hands because i'm not Off video, but still yeah, but I know I know yeah um And and by the way, totally legitimate questions, but did you In a previous call might have just been last last thursday I said like there's the dip and dip and mix kind of metaphor that I use which is I think of the thursday calls and just the thursday calls as i'm dipping my ladle into the stream of what's happening Among us and then and then and then when it smells like something that's about our purpose I then mix it into the stew. Did you catch that part? Yes, yes, okay, so that that did not give you any sense of purpose Well, I'd like to see more of that. I mean, okay We can we can lather rinse repeat on that although lather rinse repeat plus stew does not sound appetizing But still no, right? stew doesn't sound appetizing Stew not so good anymore. I don't know what happened to stew. Yeah, so so gill and then mark if we have the time Yeah, lather rinse repeat and clone pete Yeah, so that's repeat. Yeah, there you go. So I mean, there's you know, there's a threat through this whole call There's something to be done about building the capacity of people to to curate complex conversations and across conversations with common themes and place like I'm I think that's a really important piece here Couple things in general. I'm very grateful Not just at the chauvin verdict. Somebody observed on tuesday that the second biggest crime there was that we were also worried about what the outcome would be Very telling about us but You know the the activity on climate Biden is holding a global climate summit today where the united states is going to 50 percent greenhouse gas reductions by 2030 a big leap from where things were before Um, you know, this is ties back to me for What ken and jerry both talked about about talking to corporations. This has been a good part of my work for the past 30 years Um, and the basic mo has been to go inside and say, you know, given that you care about making more money and reduce some risk Here's ways you can do that that will reduce climate impact, etc and make you more money Not unique to me a lot of us have been playing in that field and it's really gratifying to see how that What was a fringe conversation 20 30 years ago is now part of the mainstream conversation It's every company is talking about this every policy makers talking about this The wall street firms are talking about this one third of assets under management in the u.s Have some sort of esg environmental social and governance filter on them adequate. No But the what's normal in normal polite conversation among powerful institutions has really changed And that's gratifying Um dug to your point about turning scenarios around. I think the opportunity there is not just to Incorporate the past and find the pattern But to start from the future or bring the future into the present in a in a more purposive or directed way Which is to say, where do you want to be? What would you like it to look like? What would be a good world? This is a core element of the natural step framework, which we've used a lot with companies which grounds them in the fundamental Non-controversial non debatable science of physics and evolutionary biology distill some principles of what working systems are And then works backwards from there not forward from the present moment of reasonable small steps But back from an ideal of how might you get there reverse? Engineering the mission like nasa did with the Apollo mission. So all pretty cool stuff I find myself in this and In a very perplexed situation both with regard to the corporate work and with regard to the trump voters that i think stacey you were talking about Because like I said, most of my work has been inside trying to Infect companies with some new thinking that addresses their their their sense of their concerns in a new direction And Another part of me well in my history and now is thinking this entire structure is deeply fucked There are structural flaws four or five structural flaws in capitalism That severely impede the possibility of impact capitalism social capitalism reform capitalism democratic capitalism Conscious capitalism all the things that people are talking about and so i'm cooking a piece of writing on that And i'm feeling kind of schizophrenic Being inside and outside Same a similar kind of dilemma with regard to the trump voters You know on the one hand they're I think in really important opportunities to engage and to try to restitch the the social fabric of this country because this can't go on and One of the ways I think you get to that is not just to talk with them but to listen to them Both to understand their concerns but It's tricky because if I go to go out to listen to a trump voter to understand her concerns to be able to more effectively change her point of view I'm not really listening And so really listening requires me to be open to being changed by her As well as her being changed by me and am I willing to do that? I don't know So there's that whole mess and the dilemma there is do we engage and try to restitch the Social fabric or try to beat the crap out of them and defeat them in every turn and obliterate the fascist tendency in this country so another dilemma there I've been This week res resumed a large webinar series talking about Climate COVID pandemic era the process of change and some of these things Jerry, no, you were there yesterday. I was glad to see you Um So george, I'm intrigued by your comment about goal directed conversation because this is sort of that it's you know I think of it as a community of inquiry and practice And and I'm sort of finding my way in how to curate these We structured it with with an opening presentation by me some discussion in the open group Some breakouts more discussion back in the groups and it's really not clear what works I've just started calling it collaborative thinking Which is exactly the opposite of group think Yep And so in group think the individual subordinates to the group and the group kind of has a mind of its own And it's a disaster. It's the mind. It's basically mob mentality Yeah, and but collaborative thinking you're using the resources Of the group each individual in the group Intensely maintaining their individuality Uses the resources the experience the ideas the the creativity all the whole list of things From the group to each individual and it's electric and most people have never Had a conversation like that. Maybe since the dorm room in college. Yep. Yep and challenges. How do you do that in a large group? I think I I I'm working on those technologies Working on those for 40 years I'd love to talk with you more about that because you know we've we've pulled participants and find that some people want more of me speaking And some people want more of open group discussion and some people want more of breakouts And there's only so much you can do in the space of a 90 minute session. I would love to consult with you on that Some people want shorter What I want is a meaningful conversation that moves worlds. That's what I want I'm looking at how do we design that I'll be doing this really third wednesday of every month. I'll I'll flash an invite to you Jerry I'd love to debrief with you offline and and see how that how it was for you And what you observe and jerry had to leave. Oh jerry's gone. Okay. Well, I'll I know where to find it Yes, thank thank you George you still look curious even though you're on camera. Yeah, yeah, right exactly But I'll be happy to to get involved in that. I just love group dynamic stuff and helping groups Get the way they want to go Thank you. I will introduce myself very shortly My name is mark. I am an employee at the internet archive. I am on disability Um Healed from uh lymphoma Um from uh, I live in the inner sunset and was able to walk to the cancer infusions um I'm basically an epistemologist in the Gregory Bateson mode. Um in 1984 I started writing down what I hear and linking those Otherance objects in a DOS program that I wrote myself and at the moment I've got 2.4 million unique text strings with 14 million associations among them I think of this as an infinite mind or infinite language game and uh, basically um, it's a way to gather a lot of utterances exceedingly quickly and easily um, and I'm trying to figure out how to collaborate with people to make it a group Um, and one of my uh, does it have links between them? Yes, but they're but they're single value links There's no when you link cat to dog. There's no um triple um That that determines the relationship because that relationship is possibly infinite So it's a more poetic form of artificial um intelligence or artificial intelligence representation. Have you looked at room research? I have and I'm good friends with uh um, what's his name? Conner Conner. Yeah Conner White Sullivan I'm very excited about that technology that I've been using room for about six months now. It's it's transformed my life I'm glad to hear that. Um, certainly two-way links As uh, Ted Nelson said or the key one-way links are not great. Anyway, um, that's the basics and You know, I dip my toe in the ogm But uh, you know fatigue and healing and I'll try to be back Um, hi to Ken. Hi to John. That's the best of luck. Hey mark. Thanks so much. I just wanted Mark, I just wanted to ask um, you were at the very beginning you were talking about the internet archive as being Is that sort of your day job? or that is the that is the hobby I have that basically um gets me enough money to um, you know study And uh, I just donated 13 boxes of books. Um I've been going through thousands of books to donate hundreds and Boy, is that releasing Very cool I'm very interested in talking to you more about both of those endeavors. I I'm I was almost gonna have to leave the call, but I mean, it's like oh mark's introducing himself I want to find out about him and I'm really glad I stuck around because I'm I'm very interested in connecting with you on on both the Here here great to major internet archive side and the the utterances You know connection side The art that I try to do is create a situation where somebody is able to emerge their own perception of the beauty and complexity and non duality of their own minds not to not to basically preach but to somehow present this pre-association processor and develop Someone's experience of their own thinking of their own mind and deepen that somehow Not easy and certainly don't make any money at it, but Life work I think we've reached a time when In human history where Technology and values and all kinds of things have combined in order to You know there The three concepts have really held us back tremendously the whole idea of intelligence native intelligence the whole idea of talent And the whole idea of content knowledge piling stuff into our heads Which we once had to do because that was the only alternative um Yeah, so that now I think there's a potential For every human being I don't know above a certain brain function above normal, you know, maybe high normal brain function is a there's a A potential for everybody to be a da Vinci Or to be a Beethoven or to be a bucky fuller or to be you know And I'm including I I mean I once had a plumber Who was the most ingenious? Inventive guy I've ever met in my life probably It was a plumber, but he could improvise anything. He turned it into a he turned into a handyman He could repair and and anything be gill. You're saying I'm sorry so We're now Realizing the potential of putting these things together now right on this call. We have what 200 300 years of experience How do you harness that? How do you put it together without just Putting ideas into a cuisine art, you know, there's a whole idea of thought processing Which can be very constructive and very pure a And Again as I get Some anti-fatigue back. Um, I hope to I'll participate more often. Thank you very much Michael, um, I'll just say First name dot last name at gmail.com is my email address Please feel free to contact me. Thanks everyone. Again. Good to see John Kelly. Uh, good friends and and new friends and uh, To meet uh newer friends michael george Bye. Bye now