 All right, so welcome everyone few items That I have to Go to for our regular meetings one is the hyper ledger Code of conduct which means that You basically have to behave on these calls even when you disagree with people, please Try to be polite do not interrupt people unless they are holding forth for a long time and Please attribute Your ideas if it is coming from the outside or if you are a give credit to people and Allow time for everyone to talk that is the hyper ledger code of conduct the second thing is the And of course it goes without saying that everyone is welcome here The second thing is the hyper ledger No, it's actually the Linux Foundation anti trust policy. We we have to abide by that which means that we do not Engage in any anti-competitive behavior and that is these are the only two requirements for participating in this call You do not have to be a member of hyper ledger or anything like that. It's a completely open call With those two caveats so Before we go into our main event. I want to ask Kirti to do a short presentation on the insurance subgroup and He will talk about that and the second thing is money will say something about our ongoing efforts in CBDC and Then we go directly to backstab lines Who is the? Who's the chief? Information officer chief Chief What was investment officer investment office of Honeycomb digital investments Now and he has written a book which will be coming out soon on John Wiley It's going to be very Interesting because it talks about digital finance and how things are going to be shaken up with the stable with the security tokens which can include any variety of digital twins of real world assets well As real as it gets anyway So give me please Thanks, we've been Just to give you a brief the hyper ledger insurance subgroup The idea came about and because we're trying to solve some capital requirements problems in the Lloyd's market. So Lloyd's is a predominant market, which is an insurance market, which is based out of London and It's it's got a unique subscription model structure and it caters to speciality insurance and When we decided to do this Insurance subs group we felt that there were a lot of synergies with what capital markets special interest group is doing and I thought I could possibly Take some of the best practices from there and try and use some of those and solving bigger problems which are associated with data in the Lloyd's market before we venture into DLT and other technologies to solve bigger problems. So Recently we kind of looked at two simple structures which are associated with first steps of Wenturing into distributed ledger technologies and this is where we talk about things like Structured data structure data standards and a bit of parametric analysis to kind of Build smarts. I would say contract documentation that kind of integrates and binds all the ledgers which exists within the Lloyd's value chain, so We kind of came up with that with a way in a way of structure. It's still work in progress. We have a long way to go So I just want to share a couple of screens and talk about what we are trying to do So we've been can I share my screen do I have the permission to I think you should Okay, great Shit. It's at the bottom of the screen. Yeah Yeah, just Just you know, we were talking about that one Screener that you showed me About the contract and the payments Was it this one? No the other one which had the Market laid out with the two, you know, one was the contracts getting I mean because it it naturally flows into the Okay, yeah Natalie's talking to the next present into the presentation that Baxter is about to give Okay. Okay. Perfect. So So you're talking about the tokenization of a risk contract and and this is where we talk about bringing quite a few of the life cycle events together and where I talk about Sorry about this Well, I talk about how we are trying to use tokenization to solve some of the problems within the boys market So here in the simple diagram we talk about the journey a risk contract generally takes a risk contract is facilitated by multiple Syndicates syndicates of people who take like a fraction of the risk What we are trying to do here is that you can see we're trying to build like a blockchain a permissioned blockchain which is in the corner which is literally set of people working together Who are trying to solve problems each other later to payments capital adequacy? Anything to do with accounting and settlement and endorsements and plans we're trying to kind of solve some of these bigger issues which are associated with the large market and When it comes to payments, we are talking about How we could use cross ledger settlements when it comes to We're looking at a customer input process output supply of you that view simply focuses on looking at two ends of the chain and trying to do cross settlements of payments premium payments versus How we kind of show the capital adequacy and the availability of capital for solvency These are some of the unique problems that we're trying to solve as a part of the the insurance subgroup I'll put a better structure to the next time so within I Can't find that slide unfortunately. It's okay. Let's let's wrap it up. The main thing is Kirti is starting this group and There are a bunch of people from Lloyd's who are already on the on the meeting page so they they are Wanting to You know create this group and go forward with this Effort inside the capital market special interest group the next Person who I wanted to ask was money to say something about our current efforts in In the DBC Which is coming of course from the other side from the payment side. So a baxter understands You know that both sides have to be there for a market a security token infrastructure and a And a payments infrastructure they have to come together and that is the key to making this happen so Um It's money. Do you want to say anything or should I just ask a baxter to go ahead? No, just want to give a quick update and you know to the general group in a sense that we did a And an initial presentation of our white paper. I think the last month subsequently is The the work we did under the hyper ledger, which is the ethaler project. We did give a presentation to the DC gi which is the digital currency group Last again a couple of weeks ago Again, that's just that's a smaller part of the overall effort. We are undertaking on the CBDC White paper and the corresponding work that goes with it uh the the Purpose of this call. I mean the purpose why I brought it up is to see if there's anyone has any Inputs or comments on the white paper Uh, and then separately we also Given this to WSBA currently the white paper is being Given to only let's say call the friendly groups. We haven't Issued it to the wider circulation yet We just want to see you within our own groups to see if there is any anyone has any specific comments We also intend to give a short presentation on WSBA I think Ron is there on the line as well. So, you know, uh, hopefully he's got his hand lifted Always happy to help. Uh, thank you Thank you many. Yeah, we do we absolutely do have the white paper I've gone through it with some comments and I have colleagues doing likewise absolutely looking forward to that being presented to The wall street blockchain alliance membership. So thank you very much. Yeah, that's all that's all I wanted to bring it up If anyone's got comments, you can directly you can you can email us or you can directly Give your comments on the hyper ledger page So that's all just a short announcement and we will keep continuing working with our fine tuning the paper and you know based upon inputs And here is the author of digital finance Backs to Heinz himself Uh, thank you so so very much. I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to to speak today I'm planning on talking for about 30 minutes and leaving a lot of time open for for questions at the end Just from hearing the last two discussions. It sounds like uh, the audience is very much in tune with some of the topics that I'm planning to speak about so I won't get into Uh, extreme details because I don't want to uh to bore you and get the stuff that you you already know But again, it's an honor to be able to to speak to your group today And I want to thank vipin for helping to arrange this and also, you know, thank him for being a thought leader in this space I think he's put out some incredible articles that have been easy for the overall Community that's that's interested in this space to to explore and to you know To be able to ponder that the topics that he's written about so definitely want to want to give him a shout out For that i'm going to go ahead and share my screen with you I believe everybody has gotten a copy of the presentation or maybe vipin you're going to send that out afterwards But the slide i'm just going to be going through the slide deck is as I as I speak and planning on leaving plenty of time for questions At at the end just a little bit about me and how I got into this space I come from the traditional asset management side for the last 12 years I was a portfolio manager for a company called alliance, which is the largest insurance company in europe. I was A member of a team here in dallas. I was one of six portfolio managers We oversaw about 45 billion dollars of assets. We were long only equity managers We bought dividend bank stocks for our clients, which included Institutions like endowments or foundations We managed several mutual funds as well as separately managed accounts for high net worth individuals So that's what I did really for the last 12 years I realized through some of my studies in cryptocurrencies that the underlying technology behind bitcoin and other mechanisms like ethereum Was going to be revolutionary to the financial industry and was going to allow for a much better faster cheaper way of doing business And it was going to start having Huge impacts on real world assets like stocks bonds Private assets and and the like and so I wanted to learn as much as I could I also earlier in my career had worked for Reuters in the financial Information business and so I understood both the you know how the business on the the asset management side was was run As well as understood a lot of the technical aspects of how the back office Was all put together so that's that's a that's a little bit about about me I also as zippin had mentioned have a book coming out Next month john wiley and sons will be publishing it and it's going to be released In and retail channels throughout the world The book is called digital finance security tokens and unlocking the real potential of blockchain The reason I wrote it was because I felt that many people who Knew about blockchain really focused more on crypto They were confused about a lot of the topics and the ideas In this new and exciting technology and so I wanted to partner with a large Publisher like john wiley and sons to to really Create something that would would create a Clear and concise framework about how to think about investments in the digital space and the goal here was really to help Readers uncover how blockchain and distributed ledger technology Were going to disrupt the financial industry in a non technical way That would and in a way that was very easy for people to understand So I decided to really focus more on the benefits of the technology rather than getting into sort of the nitty gritty And really getting down into the weeds letting people really understand Why this was going to benefit them and how it would affect their job? I would say it's it's more about uh, you know Letting someone learn about an automobile behind the wheel and how to get from point a to point b rather than Than getting up under the hood. That's probably the best analogy In which I can can explain it. So I covered things like cryptocurrency the digital currencies the cbdcs stablecoins But the meat of the book is about security tokens and how they are going to Start to impact these real world assets in a very positive way and create all kinds of new opportunities for investments so In the book I go into a lot more depth on several topics that I was going to touch upon today Again, if the book is available on pre-order on amazon it will be in bookstores on november 17th So with that, let me just jump into the the main part of the discussion today on you know blockchain this disruptive effects on the Financial industry the first thing I want to just say is this there's no investment advice here. All this is for educational purposes only I've got some slides in the appendix in particular That discuss, you know all those those disclaimers. There's also some more information on me The contents of this presentation and some additional Slides if you're interested in getting in touch Later on so in this presentation my objective is is really to talk more specifically about how the token event of tokenization of assets is going to affect and alter the way that we issue manage and trade our securities and And really to get into you know, what is unfolding why it's important and how this technological advancement is going to have widespread and ramifications for real-world assets Okay, so i'm going to head here to slide five, you know, what's really exciting to me is that this whole New technology of blockchain is really having incredible effects on connecting projects with the capital that they need It sounds like you all are fairly Up to speed on tokenization from the last two People that spoke on this call, you know, I really think of security tokens as a digital representation Of real ownership in an asset one token Is equivalent to one share of an asset or one bond and in a specific fixed income issue It's really all else equal just as as simple as that and so we're seeing the digitization of securities It's going to it's set to be a global mega trend That's soon going to have to be one of the biggest business opportunities worldwide So we feel like everyone in the financial industry will need to have a broad comprehension of how the technology works What it can affect and what the consequences are going to be for business and I believe truly that most people Who are in the financial industry? They're aware of bitcoin. They're aware of other cryptocurrencies But they are totally oblivious to the far greater Potentials of blockchain and so since we are in the early innings of a large secular opportunity to embrace blockchain technology and bridge both the traditional and digital worlds we need to have ways in which to educate the broader population on why they need to continue to adopt this technology and just as we saw in the late 1990s when investors started moving To web-based platforms to obtain better and more up-to-date news flow Or to obtain cheaper trade executions We're going to start seeing similar types of moves towards blockchain based solution. That's that's my honest belief Just because again the the benefits of the technology itself are really going to Be what sells sells this product. You're delivering much better functionality scalability and all performance if we can get You know buy in and start utilizing the right types of technologies to solve these these these problems And what's really great about this is that our current financial system is is fairly antiquated especially when it comes to private assets and and other more exotic types of of Of investment opportunities and so this mechanism is going to really provide a lot of efficiencies and will cut out a lot of cost and frictions that will Just create a much much better overall financial system so One of the things that I have here on this slide are just some of the asset classes that I believe will be affected first in the In the tokenization of assets Again earlier in the call. We had alluded to payments. That's a whole another sort of branch of how we're Seeing it unfold. We do think as as vipin said you've got to have both payments and security tokens in place in order for the ecosystem to work at its fullest so You know we're looking at those kind of separately, but then again in the big big scheme of things You've got to have have everything there to work so, you know one thing that I often mention to people about security tokens and How they are different from from cryptocurrencies one of the first things that I mentioned is that these are regulated financial instruments and but what's different about a security token from a traditional Paper based certificate that represents something real is that you have the speed and agility of the blockchain in which you can move things around And so inherently they become More tradable and easier to move because of these additional features and they have So many fewer frictions and what's great about this is that almost anything of value whether it be real estate commodities art intellectual property it can be used And and as a as a backing for security tokens, so that's so it's extremely Exciting that you can you can create these security tokens and embed in them all kinds of automated world-class investor protections regular regulatory compliance and consumer servicing procedures And those those plethora of benefits are really going to drive down costs They're going to enhance flexibility and they're going to open up all kinds of new business models and revenue streams For companies and endeavors throughout the world. So I have here on slide six a A very interesting case study that was just Created and issued earlier in the year The brooklyn nets point guard spencer den woody is a really added technology fan And he is really infatuated with the whole blockchain technology He decided that he wanted to issue bonds based on his credit worthiness on the blockchain He has a 13 and a half million dollar a year three-year contract with the nets. He's using that basically as his You know his credit worthiness The contract itself is not what's backing the bond but given that these are guaranteed contracts from an mba franchise he's a very credit worthy type of issuer And he's going to pay the investors a five percent type of yield now What's exciting about this blockchain opportunity to spencer and to and to the overall investment community Is that number one? This is a kind of endeavor that most investors would not be able to easily get access to With interest rates around the world being very low and with all the volatility in the stock market people are looking for new kinds of alternative places in which to put their money and you know five percent interest rate from a mba player is Not a bad type of alternative In in this kind of market today also for spencer He wants to eventually start his own fan engagement type of of trading platform On the blockchain. This was a good way for him to get started and to do a proof case And also spencer, you know, his primary job is to play basketball for the brooklyn nets he doesn't want to be worried about all the compliance mechanisms that are required and the responsibilities of those bonds are put on the issuer ie him He wants to have an automated system that can take care of all that for him So like for example, i'm an investor in some of these bonds If i were to want to sell those bonds before the The lock-up date, so i'm required to hold them for a year if i tried to sell them to someone else In a paper-based system i could probably do that But if a regulator were to find that out it would be on spencer Not only on me for violating the terms, but that he spencer den would he could could find himself into trouble The blockchain is going to eliminate some of that risk for spencer It's going to prevent me or whoever else owns these bonds from selling them before The appropriate time and it's also going to make sure that if we do sell them At a later date that we sell them to appropriate people who have been Properly vetted from a compliance standpoint. They're they are not money laundering. They are We appropriately know who our customers are so to speak k y c all that can be automated by the blockchain And then also it's very easy to have a custodian in this case paxos trust Maintain all the tokens and and disperse all of the the appropriate payments to investors through stable coins So that's uh, this is just one case study to me that shows the the creativity element that can be applied to to blockchain and can also It just shows the the potential and it's a it's a given use case of how this is now Something's currently being offered to investors and and is proving that the blockchain technology is something that It can work for issuing these these specific types of securities So other elements of of uh, the the blockchain can can help out on you know, we've talked about Payments earlier in the call. We think that's a very interesting kind of of way for Blockchain to lower costs and the like. I won't go into too much detail because it sounds like You know, this group is is fairly well versed in that But you know another simple idea that that has been tokenized and and is could fall into the store of value bucket Here on uh slide seven The Perth Mint in Australia. They just issued security tokens that are backed by gold So Perth in western Australia is really the center for the mining industry There in western Australia a lot of gold comes out of the ground and the first place it goes is to Perth to be refined and so for many many years The city of Perth has had vaults of gold where they've stored gold for various investors And now what the Perth Mint has done is said look, we'll put the gold in Our vaults will issue these tokens anyone in the world can buy them so long as they are properly KYC'd AML all the These buyers are legally compliant We were willing to take their gold hold their gold and allow them to trade that gold on the blockchain In a very easy 24 hour a day 7 day a week fashion. So you're seeing all of these new innovative projects coming out that are again showing the general population that this technology is for real that it's something that is uh Is is is here to stay and it's something that can impact their uh their their daily lives. And so I think it you know As as as these sort of innovative types of of issues come out more and more projects will want to come in off of the guidelines. I've had many conversations over the last several months with uh with custodians with exchanges or what are called ATS alternative trading systems. These are platforms to trade assets and I keep hearing that there are more and more issuers that are looking to use this technology to get to the end investors and they're very excited about not only being able again to utilize the technology to create this better faster cheaper way of obtaining capital, but they're also just very excited about the number of investors that they can potentially Can potentially reach out to So just a quick visualization of of of how these assets get tokenized You can see here on the left side of the screen really any financial or real asset You take take those assets you provide the title of those assets you get them legally um Structured in a way where the title can be moved around easily You give them over to a tokenization platform and then that platform will put them on the blockchain and issue those tokens To the appropriate investors. It's a fairly simple concept All in all and again, it's it's it's something that is getting to be very Very widespread and and we think that's going to be many many years of growth in this space Uh, another thing that that is is very exciting to me about, uh, this Security token Opportunity is the ability to use utilize smart contracts I just again from from the the first two conversations that we had on the call I assume most people here are familiar with this concept Um, so I won't go into the details of how they work But what is is really interesting is that again you can take A given set of rules predetermined types of contractual terms put that into code and then have the blockchain itself enforce those types of Of rules and transfer value according to what unfolds With it over a given given span of time one of the more interesting and easy to understand examples that I I will tell to people is In the insurance space, uh, there was a very innovative product that axa the french Insurance giant put out. It was called fizzy. It was, uh, Flight insurance basically the way it worked was let's assume, you know, you were going to go to los vegas sometime Next month for a conference. You had a certain schedule. You were expecting to get, uh, to los vegas at a certain time because of the The arrangements of your your flight ticket and basically if if you Were not going to get there by a certain time. There was a potential That you would have a monetary loss or there would be a loss of your time effort energy If you couldn't could make meetings because your flight was delayed what fizzy allowed you to do was to go in and buy Insurance on your flight contract. You would go in to a website. You'd put in your flight details You would be quoted a certain premium And you would pay it and then after that everything was put into the to the blockchain And the blockchain itself would look at the flight schedule that you were supposed to have and if you landed In your destination city more than two hours after the scheduled time blockchain would go ahead and pay you value for For that loss that you that that you incurred what I think is really great about that is that The onerous is not on the claimant of the The insurance contract the owners is on the blockchain to automate everything. So you wreck your car It's on you to go to the insurance company to provide documents proving your accident. You've got to hassle with insurance adjusters or with The company that's fixing your car In the case of fizzy in the flight insurance contract everything's done on the blockchain. It's all automated it takes out all kinds of Time effort energy and headache. And so I think that's that's really great for in the financial industry that you can Relieve a lot of that uncertainty So the benefits of the smart contracts are very evident. Again, I won't go into too much detail. I'll assume most of this audience knows why this is It's so beneficial But again very exciting as as we continue to develop this space And then overall just the advantage of digital securities, you know to me I keep I keep using that that phrase better faster cheaper And not only are we want to see reductions in cost Time effort energy, but there's also going to be the optionality for liquidity because these Securities are going to be put on the digital rails. They're going to be placed on the blockchain and they're going to be easier to to issue Transfer and track over time and so that will create all kinds of new liquidity. The reason I think that is exciting, especially given my equity background is because over the last Several decades the number of companies that are listing their securities on exchanges has been dropping for a variety of reasons companies have decided to Stay private for longer periods of time And not to go on to to exchanges. I actually in my last my last job I worked with a team that ran the largest small cap stock fund in the country And I had so many conversations over the years with the manager about how his universe Of potential stocks was just getting smaller and smaller and smaller Over the years and what's the shame about that is that if you look back Over the last let's say, you know 75 years or so Small cap stocks have been one of the biggest and best ways for The average investor to accumulate wealth. Let's just take the example of when microsoft went public in 1986 They had a market cap of somewhere around 250 million dollars today, it's a trillion plus type market cap opportunity And hundreds of millions of people around the world have participated in the wealth Creation that that company has incurred if you look at some of the The unicorn investments today some of the the the hot new companies that have come up over the last few years Really the people that have gotten rich are not the people who invested in the company Post-ipo. They're the people who invested in pre-ipo And so there is the potential for this security token Uh innovation to really change that and to allow smaller investors more of a retail audience to participate in these uh These great new projects that that that entrepreneurs and and corporations are are creating so I find that very Enticing what I also find very interesting is again with this option of liquidity Is that digital assets really can help unlock the the potential for those Those opportunities and lower their costs of capital. So whenever you are You know looking at different different assets and and how they trade on the market There's something called a liquidity premium or a liquidity discount in many cases. Basically the more liquid An asset is the cheaper it is for the issue of or of that company to Uh To obtain that that that capital so there's this um There's this continuum of liquidity in the market and private investments are the least developed on this front And therefore we think we'll see the biggest benefits from tokenization If we can if we can start seeing a more liquid type of market and we can maybe discuss in the q&a How that might work? So I don't know how much detail you want me to get into on on this But if we can start having private assets that have a ready exchange Where there is the potential for liquidity You could see the cost of capital falling in a in a massive way Or some of these these projects and what that would do is allow for productive opportunities in the economy to get the money that they need to Uh to function and to and to grow and so today we don't see that in a lot in a lot of cases And a lot of the of really good opportunities are are passed over because there are investors who need liquidity Who want to be able to have the chance to sell their securities at some point in the the near future? But because they can't they just totally overlook the space and and throw it out altogether So big opportunities here Uh to the financial markets by by adding liquidity So, you know In in kind of conclusion, I don't want to take up too too much of your time But we really believe we're in the early stages of this digital revolution based on on blockchain technology We think there are all kinds of signs Of growing adoption We think there is more regulatory clarity that's coming into Uh the picture and what's really exciting to me also is that the infrastructure to deliver this product from start to finish is getting Getting created by some of the best minds And both, you know, silicon valley and wall street. And so as we continue to see that happen You know, there will be more and more good use cases and more and more You know proof statements so to speak where Common investors institutional investors will get more comfortable in utilizing this technology So let me let me just stop stop there and and uh and see if we have any questions Please don't hesitate guys Hey, hey vip and it's Ron Baxter. Thanks. Thanks for that. And um You and I both share Thompson the Reuters history. It'd be great to catch up at at I do have two quick questions for you and I agree with the the hypothesis that you have under with honeycomb digital around security tokens really being the The true benefit ultimately of blockchain and how that evolves global markets and expands the asset base I want to go back to the spencer dinwoody example one of the things that we talk about a lot Particularly in our with our legal colleagues. I think the spencer offering was a reg d offering That's correct 506 c Right, which I don't think was filed with exemption which meant it was not for general solicitation and generally for for I'll use the blanket phrase of accredited investors or hide that that's that's exactly right It was only for accredited investors. And I think one of the concerns we're trying to understand is that will be a limitation on liquidity Over time and that the ultimate goal is that securitized assets be made to general market participants What are your thoughts about that and what are those challenges? Going forward. Yeah, sure. So I think that there are different kinds of assets that Um can be be Restricted to certain types of investor bases. Um, you know, you've got different reg a where crowdfunding Can can be the the the mechanism by which the the promoter of the project raises capital That is going to be more for general investors or you have sort of these again reg d investments Where it's going to only be available to the general the general public um, so The first thing that I would say is you are starting to see The sec kind of rethink what it wants to do in terms of You know, the whole accredited investor definition They're they're thinking about lessening that in some some ways. We're not there yet But I do think that a lot of securities will start being issued by this this uh, this reg a and and and crowdfunding type of Platforms here through through the blockchain technology So so I think that's that's a big deal. I think also you you will start seeing more institutional money coming into this space, which will create again all kinds of of of different liquidity and then there are different jurisdictions around the world that will let you do Different things with your tokens. I think that in the end As we get more and more scale behind This industry the cost of issuing these these tokens will decrease as will the risk and so some of these smaller kinds of You know public companies and the like will be able to go go go to market So I think there's going to be a wide array of different opportunities that retail investors Can get get involved in and it's certainly going to be more than what they're What they have available today Thank you back. So and if I could just add one more question If you'll all permit me um Given the world a lot of us come from back to this the idea of interoperability, which in many regards is a technical issue in the blockchain world Is also a product or a use case issue in global markets, right? You and I could buy IBM and one market selling in another by way of Example for the most part. Oh, there's around interoperability between different platforms and different markets in security token offerings down the road And like what needs to happen to evolve that marketplace? Yeah, I know that's definitely a great question I mean, I think right now where these these technologies are fairly dispersed. Um, you've got um, it's still a relatively immature type of of Of just total offering technologically. There's a lot of development that that needs to be done But I think over time You'll start to see more standards Written you'll have to have different protocols. You'll have different You know, just again kind of cookie cutter type of Applications really it will make it so that investors are more comfortable that if these Tokens have those certain against standards embedded into them that they'll be easier for for them to to to move around Great. Thank you Baxter Anyone else Don't be shy All right, I'll go with one more ribbon if I could Yes, I know that you're not shy Yeah, I know he knows that too much about me, uh, Baxter I one of the other challenges that I wouldn't call it a challenge is you did mention Paxos and you mentioned, um Broadly the topic of custodianship um A lot of the investment world that we all know are required to leverage qualified custodial organizations um What's the situation for qualified custodians in the in the security token offering world? And what are your thoughts about how that evolves in the future as well? Sure. I mean, I feel like that segment of the market is moving at just warp speed. So when I Start talking with my my my current business partner Dave brand about starting this business honeycomb digital Yeah, the first thing that came up was you can't even custody bitcoin right? and We were talking to lawyers back in August of last year on this topic and What what they said was well, there's there's really there's just nothing I mean you can't there's no one that can can do this Within about three four months, you know, they started custodying bitcoin Then a couple months later it was ethereum that it was, you know, uh, a huge slew of all other kinds of of assets Now you've got custodians like bit go that can custody any kind of erc 20 Token now you've got a as the the holder of it. You may have to call them a few days before you buy and say Hey, I'm looking to to purchase this token. Here's the Here the proper identifiers for it. Make just make sure that you can you can put it in your your vaults They can handle that they're custodians now that are looking to hold additional Chains or tokens from from other other chains. I think that is coming You know if you to me if I think about custody The hardest part about custody obviously is the regulatory part But the other piece is If you look at something like bitcoin versus a security token Bitcoin and these other cryptos they're bearer assets. So if you lose those tokens It's a it's a big problem. That's a problem if you lose the security tokens But since they're registered it's much harder for those to be be transferred stolen So as these custodians have kind of mastered the the bearer assets the the the cryptos It becomes easier for them to handle the stuff that's not really a bearer asset So I I think the the heavy lifting in the custody world has been Has been taken care of obviously a lot more work that needs to be done But at the same time, I think we're on a trajectory where Again, the really bright minds are tackling this problem. And so I think You know, we're really getting up to speed quickly, you know, and I think the OCC commentary letter allowing for custodianship With OCC banks is is really a turning point I think that's I think you're exactly right the other project that I would would mention The DTCC the depository trust Clear incorporation which handles a lot of the most of the the private assets And public really all securities here in the united states They have something called project Whitney where they are really looking into this space knowing that This is a revolutionary technology and blockchain They want to get on on board with it and they want to make sure that they have a solution You know when the time comes and the regulators are And the market is is ready to to to move assets over onto the chain They've got a solution to do it. So I think that's really great to see the market leader I'm really investing a lot of time effort energy and money into Making this happen Thank you back to a great presentation Thank you. Really appreciate it So anyone else otherwise I'm going to go guys Am I free to ask back to a couple of questions? I guess so I'll keep going if you let me but I'll step aside for you No, but you know I I you can go ahead, but I have you know just Something that strikes at the root of these things one is in terms of custodying bitcoin any kind of native asset The only thing you really are talking about is the Sort of trying to get the private key You know Either in an omnibus wallet or be a personal wallet To to custody that key and to make sure that that key can be either Reclaimed by using some other means anyway, let's not go into the details but the difference between that kind of asset and Asset like dimwity's contract backing a security token Is the fact that that is a collateral that exists outside the chain So now you get into a situation where if dimwity, uh, let's say defaults On his payments Uh, there is nothing You know what what can be done in terms of the perfectability of A claim against the basic asset, which is his contract Because that's what that's what will uh determine this for every Everything that is exist in the real world, which is tokenized And that's that's the question that you know It's very difficult to answer for me anyway No, I think you're right. I think you know The security tokens are really only as good as the you know, the custodian or whoever is you know backing the the the asset Will that entity you know provide that asset over to you if if uh, you know this The owner demands it and like you said if there's a smart contract or there's some kind of uh, um You know a default you know has proper collateral been put up and is it accessible to that custodian or in in the end to the eventual owner, uh, the rightful owner, uh of of that asset So no, I think those those are questions that that that have to be Um have to be settled. I mean in some ways it's it's not really that different to me than in the system that we're You know, we're we're already in You know, so I again, I think in terms of the the efficiencies that you gain from you know quicker settlement Cheaper cost of transfer all those things. I mean, we're definitely and we would definitely be in a better place than we are today You know, it's it's uh You know, I think that's you know, the angle that I would would approach it from Yeah, um, so that's that's one of the uh things that are Problematic with this so money's uh got his hand up. So I'm gonna let him speak about this Let him ask a question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks back strip. It is a great presentation Oh, what is your opinion from the buy side essentially you you represent the institutional side of things We hear from the custodian from the issuers How does the investor particularly the for the capital market side of things view this new opportunity? Yeah, I think like anything there's a Skeptical view that people have at first. I mean, you know when I talk about Blockchain and and you know the effects that it's going to have on the On the industry the first thing that most that comes in most people's minds Oh, you must be dealing in cryptocurrency. I said, well, you know, that's a little bit of what we're doing But really it's it's it's about these real world assets That are you know going on to the chain And so what I what I would say first of all is most people at this stage in the game aren't even really educated on the you know, again that far greater potential of blockchain is the security token uh aspect their their mind is still anchored in the You know the bitcoins and the in the ethereum which they even in that uh, respect they don't Uh, truly understand that that well, so there's a lot of education that needs to be Done in the space, you know, I have talked though with a ton of You know industry leaders and they they really get what's going on and they you know It takes a little bit of time a lot of times for for people to understand But you know kind of the light bulb goes off and they go. Oh my gosh I really get why we need to go down this path and how this is this opportunity Is going to to unfold. I think that There are definitely some some early movers that are they're getting into the to the space in a big way Um, but I think that you know, it's going to take time before institutions Are going to really start to put put money into the space. It's going to really be more of a grassroots effort to to get adoption in the the asset management Space and so, you know, it's just it's just like anything. It's it's it's going to take time but You know, there definitely are a lot of a lot of green shoots out there and there are Major, you know corporations that are putting a ton of money in it. I I didn't share the slide during the presentation, but when vip and distributes it to you take a look there are major corporations, whether it's, you know, You know, like see here Santander HSBC All around the world. They're corporations that are Wanting to establish a foothold In this space because again, they can see the potential They are usually very slow to announce what they're doing one because they want to make sure that you know everything is is You know, it's foolproof from from a to z because they don't want a big You know headline splash of negative news if something goes wrong So they're these big companies are taking a measured approach into how they're getting into it but there is serious capital going behind it and I can tell you that there are a lot of very prominent people in the industry that are Are on board and at least are starting to point themselves in a direction to start moving in a big way Towards seeing this this this space be successful and be developed Ron, I still have your hands up I I do I have one more backstory. I'm sure I want to I want to attack different a little bit one of the things we spent a lot of time looking at Is is correlations and there was this hypothesis for a long time that Crypto assets and digital assets would be negatively correlated against the equity markets It was a great from a portfolio management and allocation perspective We're starting to see some data that suggests they were a bit more correlated than not correlated. Do you have any on that or any thoughts you know, I think that you know Over time they probably will become more correlated just You're getting a bigger and bigger, you know investment base Into to bitcoin so it starts it starts moving around differently. I think also as you start seeing more and more Ways to invest into crypto. It's going to You know affect, you know, how money flows in and out It'll become you know an asset just like like like any other And so that will probably increase correlations. In fact, I've actually got a slide on, you know, kind of how Those digital assets and in this case, you know bitcoin has has worked over the years I mean, you have the correlations We're very low and could From a portfolio management standpoint really improve Your risk return types of of metrics by by holding it despite all the volatility That it displays just because of the way it moved around relative to some of these other You know holdings in a portfolio it kind of smooth smoothed out your ride over time Again as more and more people start getting involved in it It will probably have a higher correlation with with other assets, but I still think it's something that's very different You know again, whether it's stocks or bonds, it's just it's different. It's global. It's It's also something that you know that the supply is fixed. So I think that there is that whole inflation hedge Element to it that hasn't really had to be tested so far, you know, we've been going through a period of You know historically low inflation over the last decade If inflation rates really start going out In bit bitcoin should have a real chance to prove itself and and that would In theory make it a decouple in terms of its correlations with other assets Great. Thank you. Yeah, and also interest rates would be another thing, you know rates are extremely low and so that's that's that's kind of made assets have a have a a little bit different of a behavior than they they they would have in in previous cycles Yeah, looking for yield in the most unlikely places You know exactly right anyway, so I think we have come to the top of the hour Yeah, maxer Yeah I mean, we haven't even talked about d5. Maybe maybe you should come back, uh, you know in a month or so when d5 Would have, uh, you know changed Like transmogrified even further Um, well lots of exciting stuff happening in that space. I mean my I think there's an incredible amount of potential My worry is that you know because it is unregulated. It is the wild west. Uh, you know I'm hoping they're not going to be any any kind of blow-ups that can can attract a Kind of solutions There's not box hacking here Yeah, right. I mean oh gosh you you read these crazy stories almost every day about stuff That's going on in in this space, but you know, there are people that are that are making money um But then there are all kinds of questions about where the money's coming from and all that I mean, it's it's it's like any new new technology. You know when the internet first came around You know, I remember people would say I can't believe you You know, you put your credit card on on that thing and bought, you know, whatever it was that you bought I heard about a lady getting her credit card hacked or you heard about, you know Dictator in central Africa putting his money in a bank in in caribbean I mean the same kind of stories then that they're happening now. So it's just a kind of history Not repeating itself, but but showing similar patterns All right, it's been a delightful hour Unless anybody else has stuff Of that they want to talk about next week, we are going to have Lusinio Reggiano talking about DCEP and The latest news on DCEP, of course can be picked up in kiffmeister's Chronicles As always I wanted to do that three day Anyway, so, you know, the whole point is that Next week, we are going to have Eugenio talk about DCEP which seems to be going ahead full full more and He lives in Shanghai. So he has a Better view of this than most of us Anyway Until next next time which is two weeks from now Uh, it's been great Thanks for showing up And We keep on trucking Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Thank you