 All right, so about to begin an interview in downtown Montreal during the United Steelworkers conference So to begin could you please state your full name? Ken Newman, and where were you born? in Saskatchewan a town called Melville Melville Saskatchewan and When you were a child, what did your parents do for a living? parents for Farmers, okay. What kind of farming mix farming we had grain cattle hogs Kind of a mixture of a head you chickens and you are turkey and So it was basically self-sufficient. I mean to the extent is that you know, we we grew wheat and Obviously to sell, you know, we had a lot of cows milking cows So we basically had our own beef. We had our own eggs and that sort of stuff so so that's where I grew up we had a section of land and And come from a family of five and I'm the middle of five So what did you do as a child pastime or interest? Well, I was they bought on a farm it we weren't you know, one of the Not the golden spoon sort of thing is that they didn't have electricity until I was 12 years old and they didn't have running water until we moved off the farm so it was one of the it goes back many years and then What we did is that we went to a farm school. We went to a Not in the town high school was in town where a bus would pick you up But we had to walk to school in the summertime in the winter time. We took a horse and caboose And sometimes you had heat in it and sometimes you didn't so the school was about two and a half miles So besides going to school, which was a rural school, which your neighbors and those sorts of things we You have chores to do, you know, you have to chop wood You have to milk the cows You have to go fetch them in the summertime We had certain amount of milk and cow then you have to do this the separation of the milk and the cream and one of the things we used to sell as part of Making a living is that we would have an ice hut and you would put the cream into the Metal containers and you put that in the ice hut and then once every week the cooperators would come by and sell the You sell them the cream. The other thing we used to do Used to do some hunting Did some trapping Muscrats weasels that was another form of income. So as a kid That's the stuff that we were involved in and I was one of the more fortunate ones in the family because as the middle of five my older brother left when he got to a certain age and he kind of moved around and Not odd jobs moved away and did a lot of traveling then my older sister. She went to a Business school. So I was the eldest in at home to basically kind of be the the chief person involved in the farm. So I was kind of the person that was You know working on the farm until my dad took sick in 1967 and that's when they decided to Either I take over the farm, which I really wasn't that interested. It was it was a tough life and Decided that they're gonna move to the city and so that's what we did. So I was fortunate to the extent is that I loved sports and being in The community of Grayson, which was the town that was closest to us. I played baseball as a kid and then I become a hockey player and So I played with the Grayson Tigers and back then you played in numerous communities So I really liked that and you know, you maintain your friendships, but you know, you also have to look after the farm So sports and then hard work that was basically what it was all about I mean like the other thing is that we had a lot of cows. We had like cattle and Was part and parcel of helping deliver calves Yeah, and that's not the kind of stuff that you learn in school learning where that was just That's just the hard knocks and my dad He was he had a machine that was what's called a calf puller And as a kid, you know when other farmers in the community needed help because there's One of their cows is having a problem with delivery is that we would get in our truck and away we go and just just to witness you know to to pull the calf out of the The womb of the cow is that something that you don't want to see and but something that I've experienced So that's basically been my upbringing. So we stayed on the farm I mean born and novel as I said lived in Grayson on the farm and then left the farm and In 1967 when I was 17 years old Sorry 68. I was we left in April of 68. I was turning 18 in May. So and then moved to Regina and My parents kind of semi-retired but they didn't enjoy that coming from working 724 and all of a sudden you know, there was no Planning for retirement back then especially working on a farm So they got bored pretty quickly and my dad went on to do some handy work at one of the big buildings and the mother worked for a hospital and Was doing some work that they continued to work until they were both 65 then retired and Enjoyed their kids and grandkids and that was it. So so that's as the farm life into the city life okay, and You going to school what what became your strengths or interests? Well, the problem with school, I mean great school obviously from grade one to eight was in this farm school Which you have to walk or take the goose When I went to high school, you had the bus and because my dad was sick I was probably didn't excel in school as much as I should have It's not an interest that I took because hockey working that sort of stuff. So I Wasn't I didn't have good grades and if I ever had to look back at regrets That's probably one of the areas that you look at but it is what it is You know, I I was able to look at the big picture and move forward and So school was not my strong points and I because I love sports and back then We were taught by Catholic nuns We're our teachers in the high school and I like to play football. I mean those I didn't I played hockey and I played Baseball in the younger years and then what when I went to high school played football and back then we took French and obviously French was not a strong suit and So I never forget mother Lucy is that Because I wasn't good in French She would put me in the penalty box when the other guys were out on the field practicing So so school wasn't a big interest and matter of fact that towards the end I never got to finish high school simply because of my dad's illness and that's your stuff missed so much time and Like I say, that's probably one of the things you look back and say would you ever change that? Of course you would but it is what it is and I've been able to Keep abreast of things and be involved and educate through the union that's basically the union gave me my education Yeah, so so not going to not finishing school and then and then Not taking over the farm. What did you think you wanted to do in life? 18 I had an opportunity for for a brief period in the summertime One of my dad's brothers lived in Regina and he worked for a big construction company So he asked me to come up one summer and actually got a part-time job living in the city and Being from the farm and living in a big city like Regina is I I kind of liked the city life And it was much better than living on the farm. So I just Wanted to go to Regina and you know find work and earn a living and do like, you know, so many other people did and So that's exactly what I did. I didn't have any plans of I knew that I had the you know I have a fair amount of skills mean working on a farm of you know combine swapping You know back in the days of stooking and thrashing and all those other sorts of things So you you pick up a lot of skills that you traditionally don't do so I knew that I Some people refer to as I had a strong back in a weak mind I could no doubt to get an easy job and and jobs were never an issue for me in my entire life In my entire life, I think I was laid off a total of two weeks And that was at one of the plants in Regina and then matter of fact the layoff was for a short period of time I took a job with the same company in Edmonton. So I was really never ever really out of work other than when I was discharged once When it was in the union job and had to wait for arbitration and that that Being stated. So how'd you get into first of all the mining industry? Well, when we moved to Regina my parents That's the first time we had running water because on the farm we didn't my parents built a brand-new house was a We thought we died and gone to heaven living on the farm and then I Turned 18 in May and the first job I got there was an Ipsco, which was a steel mill and Back in those days Ipsco the steel mill is probably one of the better-paid positions. I got his laborer's job I was a third helper on the furnaces. They had electric arc furnaces, which is you know hot and dirty master stuff And so I worked there for a little over a year and then a buddy of mine that we used to play hockey with and Grayson he knew that the mining company of Inco was hiring miners and He was also a hockey player and he wanted to go and because back then there was mining companies They used to hire hockey players if you look at the Kimberley dynamiders you look at the trail smokers I mean we're obviously a bit naive and stupid to think that because you know, they wanted to have a community hockey team He talked me into quitting my job at Ipsco. We went to the Palm, Manitoba We had to take a medical and the medical was just that I always tell people is that strong back weak mind was the criteria And we both passed and they put us on a train and the train took a send to Thompson Manitoba I'll never forget we arrived on a Friday afternoon and And the day we arrived there was a well-cat strike And because I remember the bonfires and the picketers and that sort of stuff So so that was my initiation at the Thompson Manitoba. We got to play a little hockey, but because The turnover was so rapid at that time is that again worked underground and If you pat unless you're a tradesmen you basically everybody went on to the end of a muck stick That the first two weeks was kind of your probationary and after two weeks You kind of ventured out and you could become a scoop tram operator You could become a timberman or you can become a tool sharp or you could you know move to wherever you want And what was surprising that after two weeks is that the turnover was like 400% You're basically halfway up the the totem pole in regards to the sonority list. So I became a hard rock minor I had a supervisor that it was also a farmer and you know my background as a farmer and Obviously you must have thought respect to that farmers are you know hard workers and this that and everything else and he kind of Took a liking and it gave me that opportunity. So not only was I making a good early wage, but it was also making bonus because for every eight hour eight eight eight foot Drift you know you you got your standard and then above that you got some bonus So I made more money as a kid than I really knew what to do with and so that was quite an interesting Proposition but living in the mining community living in a camp living in Back then there was a lot of immigration people were coming turnover was excessively high. Why was it so high? Well, it was you know, a lot of people just aren't used to it with far northern community. It's in the middle of nowhere there is the ratio of men to women was You know very high, you know 10 to 1 sort of stuff So it wasn't a good place for if people were looking for a spouse or anything that sort of stuff That wasn't a place to be and then working in a mine and as that they like to say the money was good But a lot of people I mean insurers things settle down after a while But living in a camp is not the prettiest place to live either. It was a tough situation so that's how I got into the mining and you know, you know seeing some things that were Not very pleasant, you know seen a couple of explosions where some people get quite seriously hurt and that's when you come to realize we're real quickly of how short life can be and the health and safety becomes a big issue and and then Stayed there for about a couple years and then moved back to Regina and then you know got married and had children and worked in a plant called West Tank Willock So the places I worked at was Ipsko mining and then manufacturing All three places was represented by the United Steel Workers Union Where I really got active is when I got back into I mean I went to meetings in Thompson, but when I got back to Regina I was a local of what 325 people they built semi-trailer tankers that hauled the the gasoline that you see going down the highways and I became a layout worker, which was one of the higher classification skill jobs kind of trained trained on on the site and I'm very active in the union and Ran for all the positions that you could have like shops who were health and safety and then even ran for president They're elected. So I was the president of a local of 325 people and then in 1976 in September I got discharged The employer obviously we didn't have the greatest of rapid relationships because I had missed some time due to an auto accident and I had a back and leg injury and They just used that as an excuse to try to get rid of me because of my union activity and So they discharged me and I then went to arbitration that reinstated with full pay And just at that time is that when the reinstatement comes through there was a vacancy for a staff rep and Regina and the union asked me to come out. So I came out on casual and the rest is history. So So all my training that I took was basically Through the union in regards to shop store training in regards to collective bargaining Litigation like arbitrations ended up doing arbitrations and so when I came on staff I was a staff rep in Regina and I also serve a Saskatoon, which was all the potash vines I did the closure of the ring uranium mine up in uranium city And then I got transferred in 1983 to a place called Kimberly BC Kimberly BC had the largest Led zinc mine in the world it was owned by Kamenco then and then unfortunately closed So I negotiated the Kamenco facilities and I also negotiated the coal fields and the Elk Valley like Ford and coal and some of those so So that's where I got my training and then in 1989 the vacancy appeared they had position for Western Canada and I was probably one of the younger staff. It's an elected position by referendum and Folks thought that I should be someone that Possibly run. So there was an election referendum ballot and I won that election in 1989 I moved to Vancouver whereas the district director, which Steve is now Steve become my successor and I was there till 2004 and then in 2004 Lawrence McBurdy had retired and then I became his successor to become the national Director for all of Canada and that's where I am today Yes Now Where to start where to start Throw your career and even up until today. What would you say has been your most? One or one of the most difficult Projects or tasks or moments in your career One of the most difficult tasks I thought I just I did look at some of the things Maybe lots of them. Let me just There's no wrong answer So sorry, so what was one of the most difficult tasks? Yeah, one of the most difficult projects or tasks for participating in whether it's Yeah, whether it's with the company or Well, there's a how do you it's a tough one because there's just so many if you look at I mean the gratification that I got by being a union rep is that You you got up every morning and you had that fire in your belly of helping someone I mean helping and Moving an agenda forward in regards to vision and making poor people are treated fairly and have access to a Decent collective agreement and work on a health and safety environment and I always tell people you can have the best collective agreement The world is worthless if you don't have the ability to come home to your loved ones Because of some industrial accident. So so that's always something that's been very rewarding in My union experience. I've also had the opportunity to be involved with a lot of global stuff I mean, I meant I went to South Africa. I've been to South Africa just at the time of apartheid and just to witness some of those things More recently within the last two years is probably one of the That's the one I want to focus on is the Disaster at Rana Plaza, which we were going to we're going to be we've got someone from Bangladesh that's going to be at our conference I witnessed the one-year anniversary of where 1,100 people that killed a majority. Then we're just young women You know working conditions and and to to travel to a country such as that where people know different than any of us that what they really want to do is to earn a living to make Look after the families and their well-being and then basically to go to work and there was a whole bunch of There was a whole bunch of Signs that there's an accident waiting to happen and basically said look at you to go back to work Are you gonna get lose your job? And they chose to go back to work for that sake and to see the conditions They worked at and see the salaries that they made and when you witness some of these people and what that leaves you with it leaves you with Sorrow in your heart to see that Society treats people that way and what I tell people because some of those brands like the Gap Joe Fresh Were basically, you know, that's where they get their garments on and I tell people when I come back is that If you've got the president of the CEO that's actually witnessed what I've witnessed I Go to bed with a clear conscience every night. I Says I that's one of the things I can't understand that how people are prepared to just basically Treat people the way they've treated and to me. That's probably one of the most Heart-wrenching things when I went to the when you ran a rush rate you had mothers and Mainly mothers They were clutching the photo of their loved one Because after the accident that within days when they could no longer rescue the thing imploded. They basically took all of the things and Took it away. So they don't even have any DNA to where people could really have their final clothing That is a tough thing to take to witness those kind of things. So that's more in the global sense On the home front. I mean look at we've been involved in some fairly significant strikes Westray, which I'm sure Steve Hunt probably talked about and probably told you that entire history Along with him who was a whip. He was a witness. I mean Those are terrible tragedies and again, it's that there's no need for that to have taken place I mean we're working hard to to correct those Circumstances and like I say is it you can have the best collective agreement, but it's worthless if you don't have the ability So those are you mean is it's it's the It's the you know the health and safety stuff some of the stuff that we're involved in globally. It's Those are tough things to to swallow And I'd like to say is it the work that I do every day on behalf of the membership That's very rewarding and that's why I enjoy it and you just feel like you're making a contribution to society Since the beginning of your career with the United States workers Would you say there's a specific issue or problem that's Essentially, maybe not necessarily eradicated, but that's pretty much been solved. So you've at least seen a massive progress on health and safety Could be anything could be held in safety. I think there's been some I Mean to a large degree. I would like to believe that there's been some progress in health and safety I think there's much more awareness But you know, we still kill a thousand people a year In Canada, that's a thousand if you if you do that I remember doing a thing on April the 28th where we had put out a press release So we're killing a thousand people as a woman reporter called me from Quebec says that's going to be an error I says no, it's not because you mean we kill a thousand people on the job. He says yeah, that's almost three people a day That hasn't changed the statistics haven't changed very much But that doesn't include the people that may get silicosis when they get an industrial accident. So even those as a rich country is that we may have worked hard to get the West Street bill to hold them criminal responsible. We still have a long ways to go So it's kind of like on that you're going up that The escalator and someone just keeps turning up the speed, you never really get to the top sort of thing. So We've not made as much progress as we need to and there's no reason in society that people have to go to work to get killed As I said is that there's an obligation for employers to make sure that we have a safe environment And that really falls on for the backs of government and you know, we've had some terrible accidents at Valley We've had some significant 350 tons of war Crushing to workers when there's been ample notices to the companies and there's no reason for that So I think that the West Street law is that now that we've got some convictions. We've got some people I think that that's going to start to register and hopefully our fruits and those 26 miners that lost their lives Is not in vain and that we're gonna have the betterment for society moving forward Now one of your passions is fighting for the dignity and independence of injured Or disabled workers Could you elaborate a bit on that and maybe talk about the the progress in that domain? well, you know injured workers is that What usually society does with them is that they usually try to throw them off to the curve and we with a lot of employers sometimes is that You know many of these people can't go back to their Productive jobs that they had because of the injury and what we were able to do to negotiate and some collective agreements is that there were certain jobs that we We took out of that we're in the operation that we set aside for people that were disabled that couldn't return to Their trade positions where the case may be and that's only the right thing to do because you know Because someone has been injured on the job and lost a leg or lost an arm and can't return You know, they still have a family. They still have neighbors. They still have kids that You know want to have a good mom and dad and the fact is they have they need to earn a living I mean they they need to sustain and and that's one of the goals that we've always worked at and and We enshrined that into some collective agreements But there's a tremendous amount of work that needs to be done if you look at the people the disabled the amount of unemployment the poverty in many cases the suicide rates are high so I got involved with the Association called in more a national institute for disabled management. It's a return to work protocol And it's done a tremendous amount of good work is that we're trying to have companies and on a broad base of Having returned to work Protocols take place and so we're making some headway. So I'm proud of that kind of work and I guess part of it is I have a sister that's mentally handicapped from birth and she lives with that every day and I see the struggles that we've gone through and and just to witness that you know if people Lose their livelihood at work is just not that's not the society that we share That's something that I think we have a responsibility for so Wolfgang Zimmerman who is going to be here tomorrow he's the he was the instigator in behind of Forming was called the Pacific Coast University over on Port Alberni. I Was on the board. We were able to be successful in getting that Established that university is now open. We just got her. We just got our Chancellor and enrolled and it is the only University in the world that is basically there for health sciences to basically improve Workers health and safety and so to me that's kind of a feather in our hat and it's about changing the Changing the image of what health and safety and return to work is all about so that's why I'm very much involved because It means so much that these people have a rate to decent living the same as anybody else a Few questions here, and I just figured I'd ask them, but if you don't have the information Let me know That's just because we're interested to know you know anything about the worker and management relations I'm back from the fast go or still no, but I think I may have sent you know it I'll tell you the person you need to talk to is Leo Gerard Leo Leo was the district director in 1985 now the fast go is as you know, non-union has never been organized We've tried numerous times and it's one of those things that the company always paid the salaries that we got at Stelco at Stelco, yeah, so Leo would know the history of both Algoma and Sorry, not the fast go Algoma and us deal because he was the guy in charge of that So he'd be your first perfect person. I'm talking about that. Maybe it'll be time for interview number. Well, he's coming He's coming. He's going to be here. I mean he's coming in late tomorrow night. So he'll be here Wednesday to Friday Few few social questions here and the first one is How present or absent were women in the workplace and throughout your career has that changed? very Very absent at the beginning if you go back into the mining when I went up to Thompson Manitoba Or when I worked at Ipsko, there's probably no women. I mean other than the front office You look at Ipsko if you look at the the mines there was never any women underground again, other than you know some jobs may be on surface and Offices and then if you looked at the West Tank Willock or the manufacturing plant again Very very very few women. So our union because when I grew up in the union is that we probably had less than 15% women membership So it was mainly a male dominated Organization I remember some of the schools we used to go to summer schools where you'd have a hundred and twenty five Students of that hundred and twenty five students. You may have three sisters You go to a summer school today You'll probably have 40 or 50 so you can see the demographics have changed significantly now our union has also taken a different role in regards to We've made room for Sisters in the union as we have what is called a course called women of steel Of how they get active and how they get involved in the local how they take on leadership roles You'll be at this conference tomorrow. You'll see a tremendous amount of women The other thing we're doing is it will also get next-gen So we're also trying to train and advocate to bring the next generation of leaders in so we have a program on for Local unions for 35 and under to try to send those delegates because that is the new leadership So yeah, it's been a significant change. We now see more and more women Our union has also grown and the density our density has gone up We just did a merger a year ago with the telecommunication workers So that's 13,000 and of that 13,000 probably over 50% And that sector or our sisters and a lot of them will be here today So we now see that continually and like we represent the University of Toronto We represent the University of Kingston. We represent the University of Guelph So in all of those workforces, it's a high percentage of women So we see more and more and our traditional jobs like steel and mining have decreased I mean steel is in a terrible situation now We're got two or three bankruptcies on our doorstep right now So we see more and more women entering the workforce and also being active within the union And what about the situation of Aboriginal people? Your career and again, maybe with a focus on the mining. Well Aboriginal people is that we have We just actually had a conference in Winnipeg where we brought 50 of our Aboriginal members from across the country and Talked about reaching out of how we can work with them because the union has been very innovative is that You know, I was involved in organizing Key Lake, which is the flying camp at Key Lake Saskatchewan which is an uranium mine and back then the government is that they had the benefit impact agreements is that The arrangement was that they had to have 50% nor dinners were Aboriginal So today if you go to Key Lake over 50% of the workforce there is probably Aboriginal But just as important as a union We also negotiated in the collective agreement that usually your apprentices Apprenticeships are usually based on scenario yet that you know the skill and obviously education was another factor And what we did in those collective agreements We said for every third apprentice that goes to an aboriginal regardless of scenario So we've you know, we've done some of that because The thing that the mining companies and I think they're starting to pick up a bit about that And I always used to argue about the diamond mines up in the north and the Yukon or the north was territories They always Disqualified a lot of the aboriginal people because they didn't have degree 12 So if the company sets the policy now you may say that the in fact benefit agreement says you got to have You got to hire Aboriginals, but they say if my policy is going to be a grade 12, you don't meet the criteria So, you know, what do you expect me to do and to me? That's just wrong headed that they should be Company should be investing in that because if you look at the sketch one and if you look at Manitoba, I think if you extrapolate that out to about 20 Let's say 20 30 or 20 40 or let's say 20 40 Over 50% of the workers available to work will be aboriginal and if they're not paying attention to training them and getting them involved They better start. So we're very high and trying to build a relationship with the aboriginals and assisting and and We do have aboriginal people and leadership and matter of fact, we're gonna have a big session On Wednesday and Wednesday morning that is specifically dedicated the aboriginal workforce So all in all you see it getting better and better. Yes Yeah, and I think companies are starting to come to recognize stuff, you know, there's an issue with land claims and What are they getting back as far as resources and whatnot? I'm a question I skip past but I think would be would be interesting to hear your your take on on on this The United States workers is a big company now Sorry big big big union now but with a that takes care of a lot of companies a lot of people But now we talked about this this morning the in other interviews There is more and more outsourcing and there's also more and more It's more and more international Business, especially if you look at the natural resources So how do unions handle the overseeing of many independent or self-regulated workers? so for example if there's If the United Steel workers take care of Workers in a hydro company, but this hydro company, you know Contracts out a lot of their work with their specialized work to people who are not represented or who have different unions How does that work? Well, we've had we've had a lot of battles over that like I'll give you an example. We have Alma and Alma Quebec Three years ago. We had a six-month lockout and The issue was where the company wanted to have the right to contract out jobs So for example if you and I were working as tradesmen and we decided to take our pension which we're entitled to So what the company wanted to have the right to do instead of replacing you and I? Into the bargain unit. They'd replace them with a contractor So that got us offside with the company because in small communities or company towns as I refer to them It's also for the next generation. It could be our sons or daughters that have an opportunity to work in that Environment and you know, they're good salaries or good pensions. That's for stuff The way we fought that one is is that we drew the line in the sand and it's at the company that ain't gonna happen We put on a global campaign. We put on a global campaign with our partners from around the world This is a huge company called Rio Tento and Rio Tento we got them the back off because we had the ability and the The support to basically push the company back on it So if you've got that cloud, you're gonna be successful, but I'm forcing a lot of cases We don't have that cloud So contracting out in many cases is rampant that we fight that every day We have stringent clauses in our collective agreements that We shun the contracting out of work that work belongs to the community. You don't need the contracting out So that's always been an issue Is it getting worse? I think what what's getting worse and I think what you're referring to is is that you have a lot of precarious employment out there and other And like you take actors you take taxi drivers I mean there's some people that I mean they're just going from job to job to job. They're usually not union They usually on contract that that's not a good situation And that's something that that the government is not assisting either because they're allowing in temporary foreign workers Which is a big issue that I'm sure Steve talked to but HD mining up But they brought the Chinese in to do the coal They brought the Chinese in to do the coal mining up in and tumbler Ridge. There's a big controversy about that They brought the miners right from China to basically, you know what we got miners in Canada. You can't do that So those are big issues, but I think a lot of that is government policy And I think they just get away with that but if you look at the places that we represent is that I think companies recognize that You're much wiser to utilize your own staff if it makes another some specialized Work that makes no sense that, you know, you have to go and union accepts that but it is a problem just We we have you know, because we've got the cloud and some of our bigger operations We have the opportunity to push some of that back, but it is is obviously a going concern Just a few other questions next one. It's In your opinion, no wrong answer So in your opinion, are there any events? people disasters Anything whatsoever that you believe must be mentioned when we talk about the natural resources in Canada maybe tied in with the Something that that defined The natural resources in Canada or that's changed it for better or something very very important something that changed the mining the mining industry or the Could be the labor movement within the mining industry or the natural resources industry Well, there's the safety side of it, which was the West Ray thing, which I think we talked about it We no longer have Canadian mining companies, I think we've got one So if anything, it's probably all gone multinational the problem with multinationals is that They usually don't have loyalty to any country and they have loyalty to the shareholder So I think that that's a detriment. That's no different than our steel industry today. That's the big change We really don't have control over our destiny so decisions that are made in regards to Expanding mines is not made in Sudbury or it's not made in Red Lake whatever cases being made and brought someplace with no interest to the community So I think the change of ownership to a large degree is you got these big multinational that take like Rio Tento BHP I Think that that's become a much tougher situation for the environment of what it used to be when we used to have like Tech and Kamenco it was a different world because we knew the decisions were made in trail or in Kimberley or in Castlegar River they were headquartered the same as steel. So I think that that's probably one of the bigger significant changes is that a lot of it is foreign ownership and and that's been very detrimental to us if you take Valley and Enco was purchased by Valley We had a one-year strike. I'm sure Leo Jouar talked you about that When he did his interview, that's his hometown local 6500. They were out for over a year at Boise Bay About for 16 months or whatever gave the terrible situation and this was foreign ownership This was a global company that come from Brazil Brazil they may have different methods of how they deal with the trade union movement in Canada We've always been fairly highly unionized believes in Sharing the profits and those sorts of things and Brazil the Valley came in say well, we just don't like that system So we just had a hard knock them down Event which created a lot of hostility and a lot of heart feelings over it But that's probably where the change of the big multi-nationals Taken over and it's probably to the detriment to the Canadian workers in society. I'll tell you it's a very popular answer Actually when I asked that question, so Last question and that's if you're talking to someone someone much younger like a student for example And this student was thinking of getting into the mining business What piece of advice would you give them? or life lesson Well, okay, I think Mining is I mean I look at some of the communities or we represent people You know, I worked in Kimberley. I was a staff member for the steelworkers. I worked at the coal fields up and And at 40 and Sparwood These are good paying jobs you can sustain a good living You can have a good family life. You can get communities. I Would not I would say to someone younger said that look at those are good careers. Those are good jobs. They're Sustaining jobs. You can raise a family. You can have an opportunity to send your kids the only thing is that make sure that again is your your safety and making sure that you got a reputable company that you're working at and So I have a lot of pride in regards to our resource sector We represent a lot of the members across the country and I can tell you Our members are proud. They're proud to work in the mining industry But but again is that you know, they want to have a decent living. They got families no different than anybody else But when I look at the places that I've lived, I mean other than some flying camps These are good Sustaining well paid jobs. You can raise a family and have a good life and I'll also have a good pension that when you get to that point in time You can go to enjoy your golden years and enjoy that now We have some mining situations where you'd really have to sometimes scratch your head say, oh, who'd want to do that? I mean we had fly-in situations and some of the northern mines Kamenco up in Polaris. It was a fly-in for eight weeks Now if you think of someone with a family and kids What kind of life is that but that's a matter of someone having to make a living So you've got you go to the uranium mines in Saskatoon. It's seven in seven out It's not bad. I mean that's that's better than the three weeks in or what are the case may be? So there's some significant sacrifices But in the mining communities that I've had the opportunity to live in and to work in They're great communities. I go to Kimblee. Probably Kimblee is one of the most Greatest areas I've worked in in regards to the environment and the community and was united and was Prosperous and good schools and sports and all those other sorts of things So those folks are a good living, but they worked hard. I mean they worked hard and nothing wrong with that Mr. Newman, thank you very much. Well, thank you