 I think I'll start now. Can you have your attention? And I hope you had a nice and good break. Thank you. Drupal.com and Drupal Organis- sorry, organizers to have invited me and to give me the chance to talk about my topic. It is beyond accessibility and inclusion. Don't be shocked that my voice is a female one. I want to give you a different experience. My name is Jo Spellbrink. I work as a developer in Sensation, a company agency. And I am also a member of the board of the Accessible Media Association, which is accessibility for all. You see that I have to wait for the interpreter to come behind me. So, and in this function, we organize the accessibility day for every year. And it has been organized for more than 10 years now. Today, we see more and more commitment for accessibility. And it seems that the situation is changing. And this is very good. So far so good. And I want to show you how two big brands in the digital industry also have included diversity and accessibility in their work. This is an example of Apple website. And this is Microsoft. They also have or declare commitment for accessibility. But is this enough? I say it's not. And I want to show you why it is not enough to talk about accessibility. Accessibility mainstream has a very strong focus on people with disabilities. You think that it's OK. We want to give them accessibility so that they can use the digital products. But this is not enough. If you only concentrate on disabilities, you have a very strong focus and a medical view. And these involve hidden constraints. What do I mean by that? You see first and what is really obvious, you divide people into different groups. Every person involved in a software project, the manager, the developer, the marketing person, they all think, oh, I'm not disabled. Accessibility is not for me. It's only for disabled people. But I don't think that it's OK to do this separation. And I want to show you that we all can be disabled later. When we start our life, we are very strong. We do a lot of sports, but we get older. I mean, look around. How many people wear glasses? Can the people with glasses show? But what is eye glasses are what? They are a tool to provide you with accessibility. So if you don't wear them, can you work? You might have a lot of trouble doing that. So we are all involved. Bodies change when you're aging. And this is what the world is about. We are all aging. And we are all involved, so it is not useful to separate disabled people and think that we are not concerned by what they need. This might be something I will need if I have an accident. I mean, it might end up in a wheelchair. So it is not especially for disabled people, but it is for all humans that we should give a good experience. And how can we get new ideas? How can we change our mindset? This is the question that I ask now. And we all work in the digital industry. And the commitment is strong in this area. But do we really do it? I mean, the output is not very amazing. So we all work and produce digital products. And we are people working for people. We forget about people when we just concentrate on the technical part. But it should not make a digital product, should not force people to adapt to them, but they should be made for them. This is the initial idea about all the products that we create. And the digital industry is steered and controlled by white men. They think they know how the world works. Do we really need what people need? Do you really know what people need? But data cannot tell us what people need. And this is why, because we have our assumptions that have been created by our own life world experience. But if we include the experience of other peoples, it would be much better and much more comprehensive. The most important thing is diversity. And this is why people with disabilities or people without disabilities are all different within each of the groups if you make a group. There are women, there are men, there are different ages and different cultures. We are all different. And this is a reality. And diversity helps us to give better accessibility to people if you understand it. So if we approach people and learn about their life experience, how they work, how they live, we can open our mind to their life and their mindset. And so we can get a lot of different ideas. And this is an exchange. And we get new perspectives. Diversity, this is really behind accessibility and inclusion. It's about broadening your horizon. If you only think of disabled people as a separate group with special needs, you don't include them into our world and into your own experience. I think you have already heard this term, people with special needs. People with disability, they have special needs, I wonder. I have a question for you all. Who has no special need for coffee? Please show me. And we all have special needs, of course. I mean, it's no, it makes no sense to divide people. If you think about usability, it's the same. We have always different persona for the people with disabilities, in wheelchairs, deaf, blind, and so on. But they should be included. We should think of user persona. But people with disabilities should be included into these persona. Deaf people, for example, they have strengths. They don't hear. But they are very visual in their way of thinking. And deaf people are very strong in visual design. Blind people, you think, yeah, blind people, they just listen to the text. But what is their strength? They have a very strong semantic structure. And if you think like that, and you know that, you can make your content better accessible for blind people because you give a better structure to your information. I have another question for you. How can we change that? How can we reach the goal of accessibility for all? We need an accessibility culture. In your work, in the agencies, in the organizations, within your team, there are people. It's about people. If you want to give better products to your customers, to all your customers, you can do that. But they have to be accessible. And accessibility starts within your organization because it is the people who make the product. I'm a developer. My colleague, my co-worker, for example, he can be the first challenge of accessibility. I have to think about how to communicate with him and to make him understand. And if he doesn't understand what I want to tell him, I have understood that. It's not about him not understanding. It's about me not being accessible for him. My communication mode was not accessible to him. If you apply this accessible culture, your business can be much more sustainable. You know, development of technology is so fast. But the basics of accessibility remain the same because they are about people. We don't change like technology. Genetics is the same. We get older, it changes. But the basics of our limits are the same. We must see that people are different. They are not the same. Each of us is a different person. For example, if a person cannot use a mouse, I can give him a different tool, a technology, to you to have the same use experience. Yesterday, I had a talk with the interpreter and I told her that I have no TV at home. She said, it's impossible. I need a big TV. I answered, I watch my films on my mobile. And she said, no, it's impossible. If I watch a movie, I have to have a big TV. So this is a different experience. And it's the same with websites. If you really understand that people are different, you can produce more balanced products. Then you will have an idea how to program, how to design your products. If your goal is to have this accessibility culture, you have reached real inclusion. And this means that you have inclusive design everywhere. For example, this stage, I stay here and you can see me. But if somebody in a wheelchair would want to be a lecturer, he could not go on this stage. So inclusive design would be to put a ramp so that somebody with a wheelchair can access the stage. Or if somebody, for example, has to has just, I'm sorry, I have to come up. He said that I have a mother who has a child in a kid. I don't know the word. The baby in, or something. Stroller. In a stroller. And she has to come up to the stage. She wouldn't be able to do it. She would have to carry it. So it would be an advantage for her if we have inclusive design for everybody. Yeah? So a lot of not-disabled people use the features that have been provided for deaf people. You think 15% of our population is disabled. But it doesn't seem a lot. But if you count the world population, you see it's a lot of people that are not included or involved. And it's about mind models. Each user has a different mind model. And disability is just one of many mind models. The most important thing about accessibility is the balance. If you have balance, you have accessibility. And this is how you can reach inclusion. I think my time is up. I would like and appreciate your feedback. And if you have questions, I'm happy to take them now. Thank you. And time for questions. Hello. I have a technical question. A bit technical. There is very much talking about new headless websites, actually. And headless. And we are, as a company, we are wondering if it's actually possible to build a really accessible website with a headless CMS. So I'm very interested in your opinion. Yeah, you can do that. It's very clear. If you have a structural semantics, you can do that. You don't need a head. It's not about the head alone, the front end. If this is, if you have a clean, let's say a clean front end, you must know how HTML has to be done. And if this is done properly, you can do it without a head. I think we should talk about that face to face. Hi. Thank you for the session. I think that has a lot of value. And I really like the idea of thinking in everyone and don't put it in a separate group. I think that could be like we did before, like we have a desktop website and a mobile version. And now we have a responsive. That means that we are covering everything. But I have the feeling that we need more feedback because I will try, I really will try to cover everything. But maybe we miss some part and we need, I think that in general, if somebody sees that something is missing, we should say, like, here, there is nothing for the wheelchair. Maybe who didn't realize until someone say that there is something that is missing? Yeah, this is absolutely true. My best experience is my own. I really have met different people with disabilities. For example, people in wheelchairs, deaf people, blind people, hard of hearing people, and people who have learning disabilities. And I have met them all. And the first step is to leave off the technical solution. I just look at the people and I ask them, what do you need or what are your problems? I have talked to a blind person. What do you like to do? Do you like a website, a native app, or do you prefer a website? And they answered, native apps are better. And I asked them, why? And they have answered me, the accuracy is much better. Oh, the websites are all different. And the blind people have to navigate like in a foreign country on each of these websites. But the apps, they have rules. They are all the same. And if you adapt the WCAG guidelines, you can try to create an experience on a website that is more standardized for these people. I will do. Yeah, I have seen that she's still talking, so I was waiting for her. Are there more questions? Thanks a lot.