 Thank you all very much for coming today. My name is Lisa Goldman. I direct the Israel-Palestine Initiative here at New America, but before that I was an impecunious journalist living in Tel Aviv and At one point no, I'm Shazaf who's sitting here in the middle Had coffee with me and a few other people because that's where you do business in Tel Aviv is at a cafe And we were all bloggers at the time and he said why don't we bring our bloggers all under? Bring our blogs all under one under the auspices of one blog and we'll call it something we changed names for you a few times Finally 9721 no one thinks it's the worst name in ever, but it stayed and It was just you know a few Tel Aviv Journalists and writers who were blogging for a hobby who came together and know I'm had a lot of vision at the time And I think none of us had any expectations But about six months after we launched just going on five years now We emailed each other hysterically and said the New York Times just cited us And fast forward and we're now I now know find that in New York and in DC and in Boston I never have to explain to anybody what 970 magazine is and We now have a Hebrew version, which is not the same thing, but it's a sister version called local call and Yeah, my realm is here. She's one of the co-editors and Moderating the conversation. We have Munna Shacka key who's the DC correspondent for Al Arabia the news the international Arabic language news news outlet and she's going to be talking to Yeah, Ellen know I'm today about various aspects of emerging media in Israel the impact It's having and I'll let them take it away and we'll have questions at the end. So hold off All right, so when I first was approached to moderate this panel my response was Israeli left Why are we talking about the Israeli left? I thought the Israeli left was immigrating to Germany I think that what we're that what we've been reading And so basically as we see Israeli society move right words as we see a lot more Discrimination not just against Palestinians, but also against Palestinians with Israeli citizenship Where does 972 magazine and I'm going to start with you know, I'm because 972 is just was Founded earlier than the local call. Where do you fit in the Israeli kind of media landscape and the political landscape? well thank you and I Think that the Israeli left is in a transitional moment. I think that We we definitely reached within what you call here a progressive community and we call the left back there we reached a moment of crisis between the second intifada and The second intifada and the rise of Netanyahu's government Netanyahu is now the longest lasting prime minister Israel had since its founding father David Ben-Gurion and You mentioned the right-wing movement that the media also felt and and and I think that the left is looking for the institutions and for the platforms that Could where it could not just express itself, but come together To bring about a coherent narrative And I think this is what 972 and local call are about or about finding a new narrative to the left that deals With some of the difficulties that we saw in the past like the failure of the peace process the feeling that the Diplomatic process is just you know banging your head on a brick wall again and again They need to re-engage in new ways between the Israeli left in the Palestinian society. They need to highlight a Grassroot leaders within both societies and all that I think that it's not just the left to miss that the Israeli media as a whole miss these stories And this is something we want to want to achieve in our sights So give us some examples of some of these stories that you feel that the mainstream Israeli press or even Western Press is kind of missing well I'll give you one of the one of the first stories that one of the first big stories that developed around 972 one of the stories That suddenly we found ourselves cited the around the world there is a in the in the Palestinian villages along the path of Israel's security barrier wall There are weekly protests taking place unarmed protest Nonviolent protest for most part which were met with heavy violence from from Israel and I remember one specific call I think it was three years ago for Protesters to come and and to mark like an annual day of resistance to the to the wall and The army at the time was blocking the entrances and the exits to the village. So as we were traveling there I saw a CNN car turned away and the reporters just left the scene But myself and a few other bloggers because we knew the community of protesters We simply got and hiked on foot through the valleys to the village of Bill in in this particular protest the Palestinian protestor died out of tear gas inhalation and a National drama if you want to say emerge around the Circumstances of the death with the army pushing a certain narrative and the Palestinians are trying to Push their own narrative into the Israeli media, which is not always that acceptable to a Palestinian narrative We had four bloggers no less on the scene because they these are the stories that Interest us and almost all of them wrote their experiences that we timed the moments that we saw that tear gas Fire the ambulance come in and all that and we were able to fact check the army F The army's version on on that and to come out with what we think was the adequate version that was here And we were the only journals present there So I think that if the media is today as a whole embedded with military is embedded with political Institutions we try and be embedded with the communities we speak about and that was one of our first successes Real interesting and yeah, I wanted to ask you also about local call It was founded in a way. That's kind of unique Tell us how it was founded and tell us kind of what void you felt there was in coverage and how you fill that void So I think we've started around a year and a half ago. I've joined just vision and we're trying to Find ways to highlight the non-violent or non an armed struggle in the Israeli media I was working with Journalists for many years around that and it was very tough to make them understand what's going on on the ground and as you know media is tend to show just the violence or the things you can show as picture and showing someone marching or chanting or just saying Nonviolent messages is not something that you can see you're usually in any television or in any outlet in any news outlet I was trying to find a way to bring those voices directly to Israeli readers And started to reach a research a little bit and find out that There is a gap There is a lack of of this kind of platform that will allow these voices to to come directly to bring themselves directly To Israeli readers and during this research. I find out that 972 guys We're talking about the same idea and it was very very obvious that we're gonna just try to do it together and we started it with As a pro as a joint project of just vision and 972 and active skills Which is the collective of photographers that are covering what's going on in Israel and Palestine for for many many years I think that What you can see in the Israeli media is is The reality that Israelis get from the Israeli media is different than what's going on on the ground Norm's example is very good, but but let's talk. Let's take an example. What's happening in the last few days in in this Jerusalem? Israelis get what's going on in is Jerusalem right now as a Isolated story as a story that is not related to any history and is not going anywhere What's going on now is just happening now and and it's all incidents And I think that what we are trying to do is to to bring things into content into contact So if if we're looking about what's going on right now in Jerusalem, you can relate it It's it all started When the unity government Started the unity Palestinian government started and Israel Didn't accept it. Then there was the the disappearance of three Young boys Israeli young boys that were killed and then everything started in the West Bank and went through The Gaza war, but Israelis just get it as there was Gaza war there was the kidnapping There was something going on in Jerusalem, and it's not one story that have like a beginning or history And this is what we're trying to do on local code to bring the contents of context to Israelis And so how do you feel you're perceived in Israel by Israeli media or Israeli readers? Who's reading you? and so we which we started and by expecting a Very small group of people that will follow us and and we were amazed to realize that there are so many people just Looking for for source of information that will speak with other voices or other wars that they're used to We were aiming for our choir our own circles at the beginning But we see that they are echoing everything and during the war it was very very obvious that people were looking for places for for information that they can't get anywhere else and we had a huge amount of traffic and and huge amount of reactions coming from Hebrew readers and That are Jewish readers Palestinian readers from inside Israel people from abroad Israelis that left and and leave abroad and and I think that Whenever we're going to places where there is a community that is struggling they know that they have someone that can listen to them This is the reactions we're getting from the street No, I'm 972 magazine has also been covering other issues not just related to the not just related to the Israeli Palestinian Conflict and activism things related to the Israeli society itself Activism within within the Israeli society on other kind of social justice perhaps. Yeah. Yeah, tell us a little bit more about that. Well first, you know For us, it's all connected to the same stories When you hear stories about Israel and Palestine here when I read it read about it in the American media, for example You get the image of like two Countries that has some sort of border dispute between them and for some reason Some grand failure and nobody is able to solve this border dispute And if we just send the right diplomats and replace the buffet or something then We can get it done and you can you see this kind of thinking with every administration But I'll tell you something about Israel I grew up I'll be 40 this year and and Israel I grew up in has one border in the Jordan River and one border in the Mediterranean and It's a country where different communities are totally mixed and Jews and Arab live together Along the coastline in my city in Tel Aviv. They live together in Haifa They live together in Jerusalem and and they're in the Nakab, Negev So and in the West Bank today They live together because of the success of the settlement project. We're now every fifth person in this in the West Bank Is it as an Israeli Jew? So the communities are totally mixed and I'm not saying anything about solutions about One state or two states or that any solution is still possible politically What I'm saying about the political reality we live in it's a multicultural society. It's a it's a multi-religious It's a different ethnicity and different Jewish ethnicity Palestinians are perceived here as a bunch of Arab Muslims who happen to live in the old Palestine, but they are Christians and and And within Israeli society, there's a multitude of voices like they are Quarter of a million Israeli so-called Jews were who are Christians because they immigrated from the Soviet Russia So so the all kind of unique stories happening everywhere and and and we try We try the what we see is to tell the reality of each community as it is and and maybe For for a single moment to put aside the political construction that we've been trained to think with and and just tell the stories of people on the ground and we do that through the format of blogging and through the format of letting people speak from for themselves because that's also something that separates us from the old media when in the media you have this perception that The military reporter sits sits outside the camp of the basic training and get the stories there And the education reporter is going between schools and here teachers and students about what going on I worked in a newspaper and they all sit in Tel Aviv and get phone calls from the government in Jerusalem. So So we try to create a model in which stories come from from beneath and Then we can speak about the experience of Mizrahi Jews Jews of Sephardi of arable region Who who face a cultural in a structural discrimination issues on any other story that could emerge Yeah, let's talk a little bit about The boycott and divestment movement. There's kind of several levels to it So there's you know, there's the people who call for boycotting of Israeli settlement product And then there's people who say we should boycott all Israeli products within that movement And then there are people who go to the extent of saying we should boycott Israeli academics or Universities and media as somebody who's trying to cover These you know some of the same communities that are calling for this boycott How does it impact your ability to get voice these voices to write? consume what you produce So I'm gonna start before lunching before we launch local call basically it was very hard to explain to people what we are aiming what is the political and background and what we are trying to achieve and and First I'm gonna say that the BDS movement and and all these practice are legitimate practice and it is not using non-violence means and this is something that is is and Something we're trying to cover as widely as we can It's a very important part from the Palestinian struggle right now And we are not trying to set to say what is right and what is wrong for the Palestinian struggle We're just trying to give space to these voices to let them speak for themselves without You know Israeli media will cover what is threatening Israel Israeli media is not covering the struggle the movement debate around it and It was very hard at the beginning for Palestinians from inside Israel for the from the occupied territories To say that they will cooperate with us But we see now after we launch and after people can see what we are doing It's much easier for some and for others. It's not and it's really okay There are people that should speak with their communities and we have the obligated obligation in Hebrew to speak to our community First and it's and you know Palestinians should speak with their communities first if this is what they choose to do and we're trying to be honest and fair and and not Judgmental and not just report about everything to the lens of Israelis And I think this is very Very important and it's an opportunity because what you see in is in Israeli media is just and this is Generally, what defines the way Israeli media? Is is how Israeli media is treating? Palestinians through the eyes of what they are doing to us and and we're trying to say it's not all about us The story is not just Israelis and what they are doing or not doing to us. It's not just foreign news and how it affects us and I want to jump in and say something about that. I worked in In various Israeli publication. I started in a local paper until in Tel Aviv called high ill Then I worked on why net then I worked on mavi and it was like 12 years and During this period of time. I worked with one Palestinian in high ill paper in 90s and one single Palestinian in in why net and it was the same guy He moved from the first paper to the to the other one. So Palestinian voices are absent from the Hebrew conversation and and in 972 in local call We don't have the equal representation of 50 50 But but I did I do work on a daily basis with more Palestinian That I ever encountered in media. So there's a lot of work to be done on trust between the two communities but The experience we have not right now is that we're doing something new that we couldn't have done before so let me also ask you about Us coverage of Israel versus Israeli coverage of Israel I think a lot of people think that American press is not as critical of Israel as Israeli press is How how do you see the difference between the two kind of the two presses? And if you want you can kind of tie that into whatever issues are going on right now, whatever news events you think relevant well I always hear this this line saying you can write in our heads and you can write in wine at things that you cannot write in In the New York Times. So in the Washington Post I think there's a lot of element a strong element of style to it If you know Israelis, they speak a bit differently in terms of personal engagement than then the American Tradition of you know, treating politician and that so so I think that If you clear aside the style, I think that the Israeli narrative has strong access to stakeholders in the conversation here and Explain that more. I think that Israelis find it fairly even if even in a time of controversy like, you know We've been hearing about the conference controversy right now between the two administrations I believe this conference verse is real chicken gate. Yeah, that yeah, exactly Michigan gate and I think I think that you know, I think there's not much love right now between the senator from Jerusalem and people here at the White House, but but But but even at this time if you if you the conversation is framed around around Questions which are highlighted by Israelis and by Israelis media the Israeli narrative Plays a very a very big part in Framing in framing the debate in access to the pages even of the New York Times is critical of of mr. Netanyahu For example, I think that we can see the prominence of the issue of security highlighted in the talk where The diplomatic aspect of the conflict which is something Israel always go back to if if the Palestinians do that that will Torpedo the peace process and so on and so forth so I think that a lot of the Palestinians experience of life is absent from the conversation here and And for Palestinians, it's not so much a question of war and peace That's something I learned in the last five years when I when I actually spoke to Palestinians went to Palestinian business It's it's it's a question of civil rights of human rights or freedom to travel The fact that you need you know when you start working with Palestinians You realize that the person can't come to a meeting because he's dependent on on on a on a clearance from the security Authority and and suddenly and you go to the West Bank and And the Palestinian guy say I can't tweet this because we have no G3 network in the West Bank because that's the because Israel It's not authorizing G3 3 network to the Palestinian population So I don't know if G3 network is a human right. I think it is but but in my generation at least but but But it's you go back to the real fundamentals of freedom to build a home outside area a and and the freedom to The right to property, you know that the army has the right to confiscate without giving any reason Palestinian property and The military commander has used it for a hundred times in the in the single-year private property. So So I would like to in 972 I would like to speak about these problems in a new language Not because I don't want to listen to the Israeli side. The Israeli side is still my my experience of life But because this this is real life Yeah, let's talk a little bit about mainstream Israeli media. How do you think it's changed whether it's you know covering this covering the Palestinians and the Palestinian issue and the conflict that the wider Arab Israeli Conflict you can go back as far as you want till today. Is it getting worse? Is it getting better? I don't know about worse and better. I'm not sure that these are the right definitions But you see that's let's take let's take Gaza as a test case Israeli journalists can't enter Gaza can't enter Gaza since Since Israel left Gaza it means that Israeli journalists don't have a direct access to any stories that are happening on the ground They are depend on on the Israeli military and on the authorities or maybe on reports coming from human rights Organizations, but they don't know the people on the ground It was very very obvious in the last one when Israeli journalists entered Gaza just with the Israeli army on a short break on a short ceasefire that was during the war and This is this is on one hand on the other hand. You see that the there is The connection between Israeli journalists and people on the ground even in the West Bank and is is is very distance and It's very hard. There is lack of trust coming from Palestinians and and it's very obvious Why because every time when Palestinians or many times when Palestinians are speaking with Israeli media They don't know how the media will frame it later on it means that you can say whatever you want But then the editor will decide about the completely different Headline and it will change the whole message and so trust is something that is very shaky right now I think and it means that all the reports most of the reports and we can hide we can say feel like We always have a mirror has that reports from the ground, but there aren't Just one a mirror we have and and I think that it means that it holds Everything that is really is report read about and Palestinian coming through the Israeli journalist eyes And the other thing that you can see is that the truth is coming only from the government or the army, so it means that If something is happening if someone shot someone it didn't happen until the army approved that it happened and what happened there And and if there are two versions the version of the Israeli army would be the truth And the other would be according to Palestinian sources meaning that maybe they're not telling the truth from now So If if you look And and I want to say one more thing not just about How the Israeli media is covering Palestinians the gatekeepers or the main the leading journalist most of them are a male Jewish white from middle high or high class and this is what the the life Experience is leading them to Reports in in a way that I can't expect a man to report about women through women's eyes and since the gatekeepers are most of them are this it means that these are the lens that This is the way that Israelis consume the media you can see in in Television shows the host maybe would be a woman, but the experts would be men you can see a woman speaking about peace about security being experts of issues that are not womanly issues and and if you talk about the Israeli militaristic Society and This is what you see also in the news. This is the way it reflects on the news So I'm gonna ask you both two questions. What do you think is your biggest challenge? I'll start with you Just speak one I Think that Like any other person in the business I'm addicted to traffic Our biggest challenge is to get to as many more to as many people as we can our biggest challenge as journalists is to build a sustainable model that can express that in which we can Keep our independence Not be dependent on a single source on a single political source You know you've spoken about the Israeli media the Israeli me the most widely read paper in Israel is Israel a young It's owned by Sheldon Edelson It's read by 40% of newspaper readers in Israel. It's basically a local version of Fox News. So You go on to create Independence you want it and you want to reach as many people as you can and you want to maintain your Political and personal integrity money Money and Money, but money with no string attached. Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna continue that with talking about language finding the way to communicate what we are talking about To people to create this new Language and that is not just our own private activists language and to communicate all these ideas In a way that people would feel that we are not Coming from up to give them the feeling that we are coming from the field And we're expecting them to be part of it and not just consume it Really interesting one last question and then I'm gonna open it up to questions What do you we're here in Washington DC? So what do you think is the most under reported story? That's happening whether it's an Israel Palestine Israeli Palestinian relations. It doesn't matter Do you want to start on? What should we as journalists here be focused on that we're kind of not not getting in Hearing in in Washington Well in mainstream American mainstream American or whatever. However, you want to take the question is fine I would say the story of Palestinians of 48 Palestinians of In Israeli Palestinian relations, especially I think there's there's a community of a million people and it's extremely extremely difficult for a million people who are Israeli citizens and They're only present as part of propaganda machine that says hey Palestinians are Israeli citizens Palestinians go to Israeli new universities, so what's the problem? but I think that The lack of I always have to explain What is the legal position of these people or what is the legal position of Palestinian? Is Jerusalem who are annexed to Israel are residents of Israel don't have full rights? And I think and that's an enormous challenge even even to begin a political conversation So it was it and it creates all problem kind of problems along the way like it was very difficult to to to to Speak in English about the the proverb plan a plan to this place Palestinian communities in the south of Israel because people never understood that there were Palestinians communities in Israel that there were there are Israeli citizens and at the same time they were threatened as Palestinians they were threatened with regards to their rights over land and to the to the indigenous indigenous rights of Palestinians and I meet this challenge every every every other day like connecting those I'm gonna add to that that besides Palestinians inside Israel there are many groups that combine the Israeli society and just separate just the Palestinian issue from what's going on in Israel and is is Making everything a little bit shallow because the as norm said that our Palestinians inside Israel there are a large group of Russian immigrants there is a the biggest group in the Jewish society is a Mizrahi group and and and and their struggle is getting more and more loud in the last in the last years and And and to understand a little about that. What's the Mizrahi group? Okay, the Mizrahi group Israelis came all Israelis came and from different places in the world to Israel and the people that were there first came from Europe, but then a few years later came people from from the Arab world and there is since they came there is a huge discrimination and and Try to to erase the Mizrahi culture and the Mizrahi needs and the means that Israeli governments through the whole the whole years. It's it's not just Netanyahu or any a specific Prime Minister and during the whole years, this is the way or the means that they have been taken to Try to erase their identity is is pretty much similar to what's going on towards Palestinians inside Israel, for example, or other communities and the struggles Inside Israel the economic situation inside Israel is very effective affecting what's going on and and to add to that and Occupation is not just about rights and about land. It's also about money And this is very very important to understand There are many people that are earning from having these separate groups that are fighting each other inside Israel and and that's Our kind of the the lowest classes if we can frame it like like that That can serve the way that Israel can continue existing like that There are many many companies earning from the occupation. There are many Different people that that are earning a lot from the situation So not just talking about rights, but one from from the situation right now You mean for example, like Israeli factories that are in settlements that employ Palestinians, is that what you're referring to? It can be Israeli factories. It can be international companies It can be as a specific people that you know and From the situation it can be if you look about at Walker's rights, for example, I know this is something that is Maybe I have to explain there are issues inside Israel, but differences between how a Walker's rights are and being treated Inside Israel are different than it. It happens in the in the occupied territories There is a gap between salaries like what someone can earn inside Israel It can be 10 times then then the salary someone will earn in the occupied territories So we have a few million people that are living without with a in an under terrible condition sometimes that personally don't have a way to to to earn or to Move from the situation because you know, they just lack of means Great well, I think I'm gonna open it up to questions. Let's take maybe two or three questions Let's make them questions and not statements Or if you have something to say just make sure that you frame it in a way that makes it sound like a really good question We'll take three at a time Here. Sorry, there's a mic coming your way Hi, thank you very much. I I'm gonna try to squeeze in maybe two questions because I'm here sort of wearing two hats My name is Allison Glick and I'm with Jewish voice for peace here in DC I also work for a whistleblower organization here in Washington. So first to you know, I Was wondering if you could give a little bit of your perspective of this this recent Revelation regarding the Jerusalem post having to backtrack on this story about the Greek ship that was alleged to be have been violated the Iranian the sanctions and the US State Department or the US Department of Justice sort of stepping in and saying that Nothing can be said more about this because it would reveal state secrets I find it interesting that English language newspaper in Jerusalem would be somehow involved with this Especially given the connection to the yuan e group So I'd like to hear your perspective on that And if you've been covering that at all and then also to you yell The unit 8200 whistleblowers I Was able to follow how 972 covered them but I was wondering how local call covered them and if Both if you and perhaps both of you could talk about the response in Israeli society to those whistleblowers Okay, let's take another couple of questions sir over here Thanks very much. My name is Jonathan Levy. I actually work for the US Federal Communications Commission But I'm not hearing an official capacity. I wanted to follow up on No arms answer to your question about the biggest challenge because not just in Israel But in the United States and many other countries the economic business model for journalism is under substantial pressure So I wonder if you'd be willing to get a little bit more specific about how you handle that challenge in terms of you know, the range of Sources of support whether it be philanthropy whether it be sponsored events subscriptions, whatever I'd be very interested in that. Thank you Take one more question Sir over there in green My my name is Max Khali. I'm from a war bank and I'm also totally not in official capacity So the my I actually wanted to you know, link back to what you said before about the reason why There is such a consensus within the mainstream media, you know, and you actually refer to the white Askenazi person driving it But then if I think about a white Askenazi woman Catherine Gluck I actually I'm not very hopeful and if I think about white or Mizrahi Women in the Israeli Parliament On the Jewish, you know in the Jewish party I mean, you know, if you leave me to name the most prominent but many others or Mizrahi Jews for that matter I don't see this difference. I mean, I see that there is a monolithic consensus Especially when in terms of crisis and the war Gaza war, maybe I'm biased because I just read, you know English language coverage, but I'm actually in a way perhaps Asking you to you're pushing back a little bit on on your Justification for this monolithic consensus and maybe you know ask you maybe to elaborate more on what else is driving And why do people who actually step out of line not even of the Zionist narrative, but just, you know Within the Zionist narrative, I'm thinking about Gideon Levy who is himself a self-professed Zionist You know, he had to have a bodyguards during during the latest war and he in fact I if I'm not mistaken is and he's an Askenazi white. Alrighty, so let's start yeah We'll start with you talk about the monolithic consensus In 30 seconds So you refer to the last question Tippi Livny is a very good example because she's a woman and we and I think that every feminist in Israel were expecting I highly from her and it didn't really happen and I think that The Israeli consensus is everyone is inside this consensus. It's right You know, it doesn't matter from where you're coming on who you are. This is that the main Israeli voice and but Since there was there are not enough There is not enough room to develop a new Way to speak about things and your approach to speak about things when People just know that if they want to get inside the consensus, they have to speak in certain ways You see that every time that when Tippi Livny is trying to say something else, everyone is bashing her and so and I think that You know, Gidele Levi is Ashkenazi white men, but he speaks just about a very specific issue in in the Israeli Reality he is not speaking about different issues and this is what I'm not talking about counting heads It's it's very easy to say we have 10 women out of 20 we have five Mizrachi six LGBT we have more and And and and to stay that way I'm not talking just about counting heads But about content what we are talking about if we are talking about Mizrachi issues or not If we are talking about different ways of discrimination or not And it's very easy for the Israeli left dealt for so many years just with the discrimination of Palestinians and I think that this is a part of what got us to where we are If it's it's very easy to speak about this the discrimination of those that are there on the moon outside behind behind the heels and there is a Different groups that are not that are being discriminated and don't get any attention to that so when I'm talking about and Bringing different voices. It's not just about who is speaking, but also what they're speaking about For example, we really encourage women to speak about issues of weapons of a security of peace And this is something that women are not used to to do It's it's a struggle And it's not coming sometimes naturally from women to speak about these issues, but we insist to do it It's actually right now. We're publishing an article written by women about weapons in Israel. This is something that you can't See it's something you need to exercise. It's not gonna change in a second So we're talking about identity, but also about the content content itself No, I'm let's start with the question about the economic business model for media Well, if I had the flat answer, I would not say it here. I would sell it to someone and and I Can tell you what worked for us in 972, but I found that I've been trying to learn this Topic alone and I found that each organization should actually fit it come up with its own model right now What's right for the New York Times a huge organization which has enough Leverage to experiment is not right for a small organization in Israel, which you need to be better in adopting what's already successful. So For us We began at the first year we didn't know what will be the financial model after that we understood it needs to be nonprofit It's very difficult to make profit of political journalism Non-profit Just in an overview we started with funds and we're gradually moving to public and to the Micro donors and private donors who now make more than 25 percent of our of our budget If you're working on a strong political and moral commitment You have a good chance of raising money through micro donations Especially if your audience like the left in Israel and abroad feels that your its message is not heard within the mainstream So I think what's encouraging even in Israeli in Israel itself We're surprised by the amount of donations we got from Israeli citizens because Israelis are not giving micro donations as a whole It's not the cult. It's not part of the culture, but I think the feeling of alienation and marginalization on the left Made people to give to give for the platform. So and I think that It will continue to be the mixture of both any other attempt adds third parties content agreement and all that that was like pennies dropping the bucket So let's go to the question about the Greek ship Well, I just gonna avoid this one because I don't know enough be like beyond what you read I don't know anything like new to add to this conversation So I'm a shed to say that I don't have anything to add on this Okay, let's go then to the question by the whistle. It does highlight something that we're we're stronger Within the grass roots. We're stronger within the community Nines of into doesn't have a military correspondent or in secret service correspondent and And I think that's part of our problems But also I see it as an advantage because if you look at the Israeli media today The Israeli media is covering the Palestinians primarily through military correspondent, which is incredible. I think for to take predominantly internal issues and to cover it through the military perspective that kind of Ends the story pretty much there even We got a friend and a colleague from our it's here and they are it's are different in the set in this sense But even that yesterday when our it's was had a story about Shua Fatt the neighborhood in Jerusalem That saw some large-scale protest in the last few days It was signed by the new military correspondent there and the military is not even allowed in Shua Fatt Shua Fatt is under Israeli law and is an old-age Israeli police operates there So I only I don't only see that as a problem. I see it as an advantage. They a challenge myself to do things differently Really interesting any other comments on the whistleblowers in the Israeli? I think you're talking about the soldiers, right this So I think that and yeah, you can add on that I think that What's interesting for me? The first of all 972 local call want to give a platform for the Israeli left and for Israeli dissidents and for Israeli Opposition new opposition movements because we think that out of it the new narrative will emerge so we felt honored and privileged that throughout the last five years when people Refused service even if sometimes we agree with their reasons sometimes we not but they came to us They published their statesmen on the side. They came with an interview and so We want to give a platform for that having said that at the the story of 8,200 unit Which is the army intelligence unit that dealing with the the West Bank Exploded in the Israeli national scene in a way that other whistleblowers that we covered didn't So it wasn't just in our hands this this story. I think that and All of the criticism that was thrown in this group was that this was an elite unit an elitist group That's kind of washes away its hands from the Israeli society and says We're not part of the game of control of the Palestinians So we tried to bring it back to and to say to people listen to the stories This people tell and listen to and just one one one story that they confirmed that I've been we've been hearing all the time is about the the army intelligence use of Sexual orientation of people within the Palestinian society to recruit informants now I've been hearing this story since the 90s since my own military service and It seems and you can never print them because you can never be sure and it wasn't confirmed So this was confirmed. So we try to highlight the fact the story that was a rumor was confirmed And this is where we played our part. I think I actually only wanted you to maybe explain more to the audience What this issue is since you've talked about it. So which one the whistleblowers? What is this story? There's two elements involved here. First of all, there is a fusel and second. There's whistle blowing a use old to refusal to serve in in the West Bank Which is a movement that exists within the Israeli left since 1967 since the occupation there were always Israeli Israelis who refused to take part in the occupation and the reason we've not heard about them is because 972 didn't exist back then. So So we're here to tell you about them and and there and The refusal movement had peaks and had lows and right now it comes out more in the form of public statement like I could say that I refused in 2002 but back then it was people refused on their own and and The army treat with them as a violation of Army conduct of army laws and and but But recently it comes more as public statements like a group of people get together and sends that there were the pilots letter and and the high school Letters and And this is the intelligent the so-called intelligence Letter and this is the refusal part, but but this unique story. They did more what they did more the 8200 soldiers and officers who refused they didn't just state We are will not take part in this anymore because it is against a moral values, but they also stated practices That are used by the army intelligence to mainly to recruit informers in Palestinian society and I would and and that I think what made it so controversial Because people had all sorts of accusation of them, but I think this is something that actually opens some people's eyes and I would just and with another point interesting point about that was when was most interesting in the letter Was that they actually said Israel is using the same tactic that was used by secret police in this Eastern Germany and all that against their own citizens. So in Israel As well as games and how can you compare we're in a state of war with another entity and all that and I think what was revolutionary in the letter was that like was saying no These are people under Israeli sovereignty. These are civilians under Israeli sovereignty and have been under Israeli sovereignty for 40 years for 50 years almost and We're treating them all of them the entire Palestinian population as enemy combatant or as potential enemy And we're using the same tactics that are used by the most authoritarian regimes Against them leading back to the question of who are the Palestinians? What is the Palestinian society? What is the real condition? What are their rights? What are their rights under Israeli sovereignty? And I think this was the most revolutionary aspect of the letter if you want to explain the whole story and I Apologize for interrupting but to an American audience if you want to explain this same unit was the recipient of Raw Intelligence from the NSA, which was one of something that Edward Snowden disclosed Unit 8200 receives raw metadata and content of US citizens phone calls and emails By agreement with the NSA So if you want to explain the story, but I think that's an American story, you know, you know You know, I tried I try in my you know Israeli and American politics interact in so many ways I had a 972 I tried really really to like my when I view there to Edward Snowden What he revealed I think that was a revelation and it was interesting and exciting to read and on and made us angry and all that But when we write we try and keep a very local perspective local call and local that and we try to see what happens on the ground in the West Bank in Israel. Yeah, do you have anything to add to that? I can just say that we knew that it's gonna come before it happened This is part of what we the connections we have and and the trust we have inside the communities and lefty communities We know we knew it's gonna happen and and one of the things We said from the beginning is that we're gonna talk about the content and not about the people Most of the media were talking about what they did on or if it was right or wrong and not about the content And then as Norm said For me I was I used to be physician for human rights Israel spokesperson a few years ago, and we were dealing a lot with a Palestinian People needing medical care and make medical treatment inside Israel And we're arguing for many years that Israel is using information about Palestinians and preventing them to get Medical treatment if they are not helping the Israeli intelligence and what they did was just to say hey You're right. You're not crazy. You're not just and Palestinians if they're saying if you have so many evidence saying that this is what happened Well, sometimes this is what happens even if the Israeli army saying that it's not true Great, let's go to some more questions Thanks, so Just a Ronit Avni part of just vision so just to ask because you've mentioned Israeli left But when we came together to launch local call it wasn't We were talking about values that grounded the site because the left can move in different directions and can situate politically in different directions So I'd love for you to just talk a little bit about the values that undergird the site And then I think it would be useful to give people some granularity about What is that? What are the statistics? What has the readership looked like? What did it look like over the summer and what what's happening now? Who's coming to you and why? At this point, but but I think especially for us at just vision It wasn't a calculus about the left or the right or the center There were just certain fundamental values that we felt were really important So I'd love to I'd love for you to share that Laura Hi, Laura Friedman from Americans for Peace Now I was just curious if you could just address the question of journalism and the blogging element of it with Censorship in Israel Ma'am over here. I'm Sharon Bender with the Neighborhood International Oftentimes American Jews in defending Israel will go to the shorthand. Well, it's the only democracy in the Middle East And of course based on what you're both saying obviously things are a lot more nuanced and difficult Does that quick characterization that a lot of American Jews resort to undermine? Israel diaspora relations and undermine the work you do and undermine Israeli society as a whole is it hurtful? Great, okay, so let's go to answers and then we'll take some more questions So now our values censorship and Israeli-American and Israeli diaspora relations. I think you can do that in a minute Alrighty Well, let's do you want to start with a values question not placing it in kind of the political spectrum, but rather in a values 972 Because we believe in giving bloggers and communities the platform we didn't like set certain thresholds we don't do tests for people. How do you test on on certain moral issues, but But we did agree as a collective to some fundamental ideas and I think that and there are three basic ones one of them The first one is the opposition to the occupation We will we will not recruit bloggers and writers Who support the occupation just for the sake of conversation? Because we don't have Palestinian partners and because this voice is heard enough in Israeli mainstream And the second is a commitment to civil rights and human rights in the most acceptable in terms of so If you're on the side and you don't believe in gender inequality, but Or in the rights of asylum seekers then it's it creates. No, it's not the normal environment for 972 to operate and the third is freedom of information and Opposition to censorship which is becoming a big issue in the in in this day of age in journalism For various aspect, you know, you know We all know the kind of constraints journalists live in We can maybe speak a bit about censorship later. So these are the three elements that Defines us as a group more details I'm gonna just ask you more on details of the readership before I go Yeah, before I go to yeah, I'll and ask her about censorship. So, okay Who's reading you? so I would separate the two because 972 and local color different in that way 972 is now read by 80% of people are reading that are reading it from the outside from not from Israel Palestine And the large majority 40 to 45 percent are not coming from North America We see, you know, we see a lot of traffic coming from New York LA Florida, you tell me what those places have in common. I have no idea, but but So so I and I think these are people and we see and the numbers are kind of in the hundreds of thousand each month and it goes, you know towards the million in the war and When so to speak nothing happens less, but not there's not at all moment in the in the place we come from in Local call local cause was just launched before the war So we kind of expect that that will have six months with, you know, hundreds of people visiting the site And then we'll understand what works in terms of technology and what doesn't and all that so And events get ahead of us and the site again reaches, you know, the thousands to tens of thousands every day and tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands every month and and we're very happy with this With this kind of engagement mostly local like 90 percent comes from Israel and Palestine We see a lot of Relates to what Yel said a lot of Palestinian citizens of Israel following the site and that was really Exciting for us because there's a total separation of the media between the Hebrew speaking media and the Arabic speaking media And and to see that come together both on Facebook debates on the site and people sending Texts to the site was really exciting. Great. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about blogging and censorship So if I can also say a few words about about values and I think it's important But maybe it's something I didn't explain before and the structure or the way a local call was billed is different To the way 972 was built in this in local call We gather together just vision and 972 and active skills and we were looking for people that would fit with it We'll go with the value the values We are talking about so we're talking about values norm said and and a value of equality and I think that this is a very important Thing to mention so people that join the project and more all of them are most of the people in the project of volunteers We can say that this is Maybe one of the biggest Volunteers projects in the Israeli left right now. We're talking about 40 about around 45 people that are volunteering Around 30 are writing we have translators We have some volunteering editors and they are all connected through those values And this is what they're trying to promote. It doesn't mean that we agree on everything You know equality is something that you and me can understand a little bit different But it means that we have something in common and everything is around that I think that about censorship norm is the master Well This is a very broad issue censorship in Israel. It begins with formal censorship Actually, you have a better person to speak about certain shipping government harassment like two rows behind you But I'll tell you from my experience There's the layer of formal censorship in Israel military censor and The courts which uphold certain laws to what can be published and whatnot 972 local code are not part of the censorship arrangement, which means that we don't submit pieces to censorship Well, I'll tell you that as editors we kind of submitted to the arrangement and unless we will come across something that is really of Journalistic importance we try to follow the lines simply because of self-preservation You cannot just go around saying anything especially in a war like During the war in Gaza and expect to Continue to work in Israel right now Personally in my career. I met the censorship especially as we were trying to publish both in 972 and in our arts when I wrote for the magazine an interview on the nuclear issues with dr. Avner Cohen of the He used to work here. What's the Monterey Institute historian of the of the Israeli nuclear program and dr. Cohen Was not allowed to even to go back to Israel for ten years because of his writing Right now he's allowed, but I interviewed him here in Washington on his last book and The military censor simply blacked out parts of the interview and I went back to him and said, you know We you're you're It's written in the book. Everybody knows this information So he told me you can cite the book, but you cannot discuss this in public And so I think the minute the nuclear issue is a big black hole and the way it constructs Israeli history for bloggers is now, you know, because we don't sit in that proximity with the military We meet that less so I think that the greatest challenge we face are arrests and army harassments in the West Bank At 972 at one point I could say that half the bloggers were arrested during during the work Two photographers from active silver shot in history was a lamb one of them suffered the Rubber coated metal Buddha to the jaw and spent how long in surgery? three surgeries and Another one All in the head photographer of active seals had a bullet to the arm and that and he had another bullet like a few Few months back the army does not distinguish anymore between writers and Protesters especially not in places which in an urban environment like inside a village like Nabi Salah or or in Jerusalem We had bloggers who entered area a we had one blogger arrested on the same day by both the Palestinian police and Israeli police because He Was in area a where Israelis are not allowed so Palestinians arrested them and then he moved out To the West Bank and then he was arrested by the Israeli military We had a blogger put on trial for absurd charges by the military for covering Protests from Nabi Salah. He was actually accused of joining the protest there Personally, I think that both of our photographers and our bloggers express more and more concerns about their safety in the West Bank In in the aftermath of the kidnappings We had events where photographers who would say I'm not going into somewhere without a bulletproof vest I'm not going into the into the West Bank. I'm not going into East Jerusalem without it's still a privilege to be Jew you're better off being a Jew or is an international then you're being the Palestinians But it's getting risky to report there on the ground. So it's more than a censorship. It's a direct threat I want to say something about diaspora in one one minute and then maybe I Experience Israel as a democracy from my position I'm allowed to say most of what I want and as long as I don't travel to Nabi Salah. I'm not in any risk Most of my I exercise my political rights. I think to the full extent I write against the government all the time I refused military service in the West Bank and I was punished, but but I still I I Can travel I can speak I do not experience it the way Palestinian experience it not even a Palestinian citizen of Israel, but of course not a Palestinian of the West Bank The decision to call Israel a democracy or not depends on The politics of the person I experience Israel as a democracy so Israelis have the habit of going around and saying we live in the democracy because that's their life Experience my Palestinian in the West Bank and right now I have policy and friends because I work with Palestinians Experience Israel as an authoritarian regime a dictatorship which might not be as bad as North Korea But it's a very very harsh dictatorship One where they don't have political rights when they can be thrown at jail without any reason and I've seen people Get jailed without any reason any measurement of a dictatorship exist in the West Bank so and I think that By separating the issues and saying as well as democracy with it this diplomatic problem like in the West Bank American Jews make life very easy on themselves very very easy on Themself and and I expect people who take any form of interest in the West Bank I don't criticize Americans American Jews who say I'm an American Jew my life is here. That's it But any form of American whether it's due or not to take interest in the Middle East to view reality to the full extent of it And the way everyone experience it in Israel slash Palestine Yeah, do you have anything to add on just to say that we just had in Tunisia and the second Democratic elections so and and it's important to say it because things are changing in the Middle East and the democratic procedure there was was very Out there the democracy is very out there in the streets And this is what then I had the chance to interview some people from Tunisia Towards these elections, and I think that Even now saying like if you can if you think that Israel is is is a great democracy just saying that it's the only one is it's just not Fitting to the reality in the Middle East and what's in the changes there. Let's take some more questions Over there in the back. Thank you. My name is George Linser. I understand From what you were saying, you've had some very good traffic to the site Congratulations on that especially so quickly I'm curious to know Where that traffic is coming from and what you've done to generate that You know is it coming from search or referral direct? and Then again congratulations on the New York Times picking up some of your work You had also talked about adding context to To the story Does did you find feel that the Times picked up that context? All right next question ma'am over there. I Was just curious to know if can you tell us who you are? Sorry. My name is Anna Louise. I'm a journalist from Brazil My question is can you Feel that all this traffic and all this context that you're able to bring to your readers Did that change somehow the debate in the mainstream media and in the Israeli society? Great last question Sorry Thank you. I'm already near with Americans for peace now. Thank you for a very interesting discussion and Raises lots of questions. I'll ask one With the Israeli mainstream media didn't always used to be like that. Oh, obviously, there was a great deal of coverage Back in the 80s and 90s Including television a great deal of coverage of the Palestinian society As I see there were there were maybe three things that were different at the time One was that Palestinians were much more open to Israeli society and they have disengaged The other is that Israelis were much more open and curious and they have disengaged And the third which you talked about was access which today is very much limited. So my question therefore is When you think about when you make editorial decisions when you discuss, you know, what to cover and so on do you think about? how to Entice Palestinians to engage more and more so do you think about how to Produce how to generate stories that would percolate up to the Israeli mainstream media particularly television in order to have greater impact My main question is the latter is the last one great. All right, so Yeah, let's Start with you. Do you want to talk more about the debate in the mainstream media? Yes, so First, yes, the answer is yes We're aiming to for the stories to get to the mainstream media We're not trying to be a bubble that is just having her own conversation and what we are You know, we're just lunch. We're just starting but we we see signs of success in that We see other Media outlets picking up stories that we have started and covering them on the same way sometimes and taking it to their own place And this is something we really really encourage On one more thing that we do is that we encourage our writers to write for other outlets It's it's very important not to save them to keep them to ourselves and and to bring their voices to larger audience. I think we can see maybe a good example was during the war. We have we had a few bloggers and Interviewing for channel two for a few panels a for channel 10 actually And they were talking about Israeli media and their role and the information that they can bring in and in other outlets cans Yeah axis axis Is is one thing and I think that the thing that changed Since 95 is the the separation the largest separation between Israelis and Palestinians and yeah There is suspicion from from both sides I remember myself as a child growing up and knowing Palestinians knowing people from Gaza may my father used to walk from people from Gaza So Arabs were not the other that I don't know and now kids and children are growing up without and knowing I Just spoke to a young Member of my family and asked her if she met any Palestinian ever she's ten years old. She never met she never spoke to a Palestinian boy girl or growing up So No, I'm tell us a little bit about the traffic. How are you getting it? The traffic to the site you talked about the locations, but not how people are I'm gonna refer to what Ory finished. I I view things a bit differently I think As I said the reality of life is completely mixed in Israel Palestine And I think there are forces of integration of separation playing on the ground all the time And the separation wall is a force of separation Economic forces play in both ways because Palestinians are moving into Jewish cities and Jews are moving into more rural areas because they kind of find apartments in in the center of Israel The settlements are a force of both they create integration because they create one space But they create separation because they come in a contents of Jewish dominance so I don't think it's clear-cut question of Either the societies are more separated or more to integrate I think what's true is that the situation is way more dynamic And when we speak on the status quo the status quo is not static and it affects our work You know some of what you could do four years ago to access a Palestinian and Gaza or to ask to talk to a Palestinian Romana is changing it's changing because of the nature of politics It's changing because of nature of societies of technology or whatever Actually in many ways see more access than I used to have during the war we got emails from people in Gaza telling us to to to asking us to To publish their war diaries on 972 magazine, which is incredible I think you know in Israeli publication It doesn't hide the fact that it registered with the Israeli authorities and and and and them and and they trust us And there's a level of credibility enough for them to send us their their notes And I think we try to deal with most respect to that sources of traffic Facebook and Facebook and Facebook in Israel there is Twitter is not a big Platform for journalism as it is here in Israel So the kind of cracks in the wall you can make with Twitter every now and then it's not really an option So you work with Facebook and you're in the constant chase Against the Facebook the elusive Facebook algorithm and and how to promote your work I think there's a strong element of personalization and an engagement between the writers and and and And the readers so the mother blogger based model works in our favor here And I think a lot of personally I think that blogging is not There's like a debate whether blogging is dead or not I think that the blog post and blogging as a form is what a journalistic piece is in this age Like I don't think there's a separation anymore I think the blogging is journalism and journalism will become blogging and and this connection between the writer and the reader So I think On the on the social networks we do we we we get a lot of the traffic from there in the in 972 We view we seen the immense power of reddit when they when they pick some stories though reddit is My feeling is is quite liberal, but not that hospitable towards the Palestinian issue I would say you know most of our stories that were picked on reddit We kind of feel good stories about Jews and Palestinians and Iranian coming together Despite the rhetoric and all that which are important, but But then less of a political substance in them and We try to keep Direct contacts with our readers through a growing email list which we put a lot of Effort and various other forms. I don't think you had anything new there, but That's the mixture that we're trying to create. I can add to that a little bit about the Hebrew site I think that this it's a little bit different and and part of what we're trying to do except what norm said is To cover different communities people like to read first about themselves And and this is and since we have people on the ground and we are reporting about different things that are happening in different places Inside Israel and Palestine, we're trying to bring very variety of options and of stories so for example if I was writing something about a village next to in the center of of The country I went to visit there after I wrote about them and everyone recognized me and you what You knew what is local called because we wrote about them We're trying to find ways to cover issues that are not just in Tel Aviv Most of the media is cited in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem and we're trying to get to the south and to the north We will begin a project that will cover and each each week a Different place in the country and and part of it is to bring the whole picture, but also to get to new communities Great before we wrap it up. I just have a question if you could briefly address it We've been talking about kind of the Response from us from Israeli media. I'd like to know what kind of negative feedback you've gotten What are when when people don't like what you write? What do they say where are you know? What's their reaction? That's not only positive Well, you get all sorts just pick your pick your treat, you know it starts from hate mail and What is it particularly that they don't like as kind of where what I'm curious about We interviewed can in Zuhabi yet wasn't very popular the Israeli Parliament member that was not only Expelled from the Knesset or stripped from her parliamentary rights for six months Also became the object of every person with a right-wing grudge in in the Israeli parliament So we we basically gave her an open platform and we did that because we felt her voice wasn't heard Anyways, and we got tons of negative negative feedback for that I Think that People I think that the war was a challenge and and I remember that even during the previous Gaza escalation. I think that There's a rallying to to the flag and to the army at times of war and You know the last operation in Gaza. It had between 87% and 96% support in the Jewish public and and I think that 972 and local cool became the only Israeli platform that Said pretty much openly not because it was an editorial decision But that's because what the bloggers what that they oppose the military operation that they thought that there were alternatives to this war and That was an extremely difficult position in terms of the reactions of the public. I just want to I Just want to put that in context as I said I think the Jews in Israelis still even a free enough society to speak up their mind and to write and there's And there's a political challenge there to to come across with this message, but it's something that can be done It's not I see Palestinians who try to come up with a message to these really it's much more difficult And we can open these doors. So I think the hate malice is not a big issue Yeah Yeah, I think that we get complicated reactions actually from right-wing Sights that are kind of our mirror sights So on one hand they they are really Respectful for for the work we are doing but on the other independent media. Yeah, and media and for trying like and I think we are We respect them. It's legitimate to have all these outlets and say what you think and not just And stay behind the fake objective journalism Thing that is this is a big debate in Israel if journalism is objective or not and and so on and I Think that's that as Norm said the people that get the most The craziest reactions are the Palestinian writers I think that one of Rami run of the bloggers that during the war wrote on on almost a daily basis and And we allowed him allowed we give him the space to say whatever he thinks we are not censoring him We are not telling him what to think or how to frame it and the reactions were very and He writes very strong. So the reactions were strong But one more thing that you know and this is something that people usually say about every left-eater Is not following the mainstream Narrative And and it's important to say people can say that we are Israeli haters And I think that we are coming from the complete opposite Position I think that we are doing what we're doing from a place of lots of love and and and attachment and and hope and this is something you can't see or something that People think that you know the situation is so desperate that you can't find a single Way out and and we feel that we can and we feel that it's it depends on us It depends on what we will do as Palestinians and in the community, but it's we have a lot to say about it And it's our job to change the situation and with that thought I think we're gonna wrap it up Yeah, I love local call no um of 972 magazine. Thank you so much