 Welcome. So glad that you're here. Another episode of the non-profit show. Today is one of our favorites. It's Ask and Answer. And you might have noticed that on the screen it actually says Frye's, and I did that because Julia's gone today. So when the cat's away, the mice will play. And I do love that our Frye's, our Friday Ask and Answered, are underwritten exclusive sponsor by Fundraising Academy at National University. So thank you so very much for that. Tony Bell joins us. He's the Senior Director Relationship Center for the Fundraising Academy at National University. Tony's not new. He's been with us for a while now. We are so grateful to deepen our relationship and partnership with Fundraising Academy as well as Tony Bell. And just honored to have you back here and to be spending our Friday together. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. And again, we are always so very honored to have the ongoing support, the investment, and truly the trust because these are unscripted. I like to remind people that. But thank you to our presenting sponsors that include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University. And again, we're Tony's joining us from also be generous, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, non-profit thought leader, as well as the non-profit nerd. These companies keep us going and growing, but they're here for you. They're here for your mission, truly. So their goal is to elevate your mission. So we encourage you to check them out. We have some fantastic services that they provide and they've been on with us many from the very beginning. If you missed any of our episodes and you want to check them out, you know where to find us by now. Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. But wait, there's more. We're also podcasting so you can listen to the non-profit show wherever you stream your podcast so you can view us up there as well. And I have a little funny story, Tony. I was talking to my son the other day and he's a big YouTuber and I was like, can we just not watch YouTube? Like I'm so tired of YouTube. And he's like, well, you're on YouTube. And I said, great. You want to watch the non-profit show channel? We can watch that. Turn that one on. He didn't. He didn't bite. But it's always fun. So Tony, again, welcome. Tony serves as the Senior Director Relationship Center, Funding in the Academy at National University. That's a lot of words. It's a lot of words. I feel like it's getting longer and longer. But tell us a little bit about you, Tony, and about the Academy. Sure. Happy to Jared. And again, I always say this. It is such a pleasure to be here. It's always great conversation and so much fun to join you on the Ask and Answer episodes. I am a big time YouTuber. So I watch the non-profit show on YouTube. That is how I access all of the great episodes that you provide. And so, yeah, I'm always on YouTube. So I could understand that. I can't even think of the word, but yeah, I'm stuck on YouTube all the time. But again, it's a pleasure to be here. So National University is a veteran founded institution. So it would be very important today for our organization and recognition of veterans. I'll be a veteran founded institution celebrating 50 years of higher ed. I'll service to students. So I, like you said, I serve as the Senior Director for the Relationship Center. And under that umbrella is the Fundraising Academy. I've been working in the non-profit sector for over 30 years now and, you know, became connected with the Fundraising Academy and the cause selling curriculum as a trainer here in South Florida back in 2018. And just, you know, again became very passionate about the curriculum, saw its value and how emerging leaders and folks new to the nonprofit sector could apply the strategies and the day to day work that they were doing and see the results from that. I'm super excited about it. Very rewarding work. And, and just honored to, you know, be one of the messengers for the Fundraising Academy and really kind of send, you know, send cause selling out there into the world. Yeah, it's fantastic. And Mui joined us yesterday. And in fact, a couple of days this week and you referenced the book and I'm so grateful to have a copy of the book as well. Pearl and your team sent that over to me. It's a fantastic book talks, you know, all about the Academy and cause selling education. So thank you for that Tony. I'm so grateful. So grateful to have you here. So you know how this works but for many of our viewers and listeners I'm just going to assume that maybe this is your first time joining us for this episode. We have questions that have come to us from you our viewers our listeners or audience around the globe. We save them for our Friday. Also lovingly called Friday. We leave them allowed as Tony to go ahead and answer them and then I might add to them, depending on where the conversation goes but Jeffrey in Los Angeles California is going to kick us off today. We are getting ready to recruit a new group of board members. And some of us think that we should limit board service that our prospects can serve on. For example, new board members can only serve on two other nonprofit boards if they're serving on ours. What do you think about this Tony. Well first Jeffrey thank you for participating and ask and answer Friday and sending in your question we're, we're grateful to have it. My immediate thought Jared is, what is the expectation of your board members. What role do they serve the organization because we know again 501 C three is a tax status not a business model. The boards need to be structured in a way that best supports the community that your organization is serving best supports the mission. And so in some cases that means a board of directors where you have to roll up your sleeves, you know, you're, you're in it, you might be facilitating some of the programs and services. You may be really really in it. And that's the kind of board member that that organization needs other organizations are looking for board members that are really there to serve in more of an advisory capacity. And some of those don't necessarily have a give or get requirement that other boards might have. So I think first I would ask myself, what is it that I expect of the board member. And that would help me determine whether or not, I would think that they could fulfill that obligation, if they were serving on more than three boards, because we all know those folks that serve on 10 or 12 boards. And I often think, oh my gosh, you know, not only is there that massive time commitment. But let's say if even 50% of those boards have a give or get policy for their board members. That's a get a heavy lift for someone that's serving on on many boards. So that's my initial thought Jared around that is, you know, I don't, I don't see any problem with having that requirement of your board members. If it suits the type of board member that you're looking for and what your expectations are. And I think that's very valid. I love that that's how you answered it, you know, is to think of the expectation of the board member, and to realize that all boards are very different. We've heard someone say on the show, once you know one board, you know one board. And like you said, Tony, there are some organizations that, you know, to be on their board, it's a very working board, and it takes a lot of time, roll up your sleeves, dig in the dirt, right. And then there's others that might be at a maturity level, perhaps they only meet once a quarter, and you're really serving as more of an advisory and a fiduciary agent, but not so time intensive. But I like that you said, you know, let's talk about the expectations. And I really would Jeffrey hold it to, if the board member, for any board member, once they fall short on their expectations and what they have signed that they are committed to doing attendance, those deliverables, even that give or get, if they're starting to fall short in what they committed to do. That's when you have that conversation and when I say you it's your board chair. I don't think it should come from the staff, but I really do think you know there's so much good to come from serving your community and even nationally internationally and other ways. And there's so much collaborative spirit that might come from that as well as best practices. So I see it I think is what you were saying Tony it's not a bad thing to serve your community in other ways there are people that live their life slowly through civic engagement. And I also find if you, if you know a board member, they're typically serving on more than one board. So that civic engagement runs deep but we hope that that helped, you know, not not a black and white answer but hopefully it gave you a little bit of advice on how to best move forward. So yeah, I think, I think that's good. All right, Joseph from Atlanta, Georgia. We have a COO who thinks that our team should be wearing branded polo shirts while working. This includes work from home and on campus, no matter the location. This is causing some heartburn within our staff, and we could use some advice on this. So can you buy Pepto Bismol with your health savings account I'm not really sure. But you know, it, that's what I first thought of here. I know the heartburn. Oh my goodness, as if there aren't enough other things related to the work in this space that calls heartburn. So Joseph, thank you for the question and thank you for the way in which you phrased it. I'm going to make an assumption Jared, would you agree it sounds like this is something new that perhaps this is something new that that's being implemented. So my first question would, I don't know I mean it sounds like the decision's already been made, but I would question what problem are we solving and in implementing this. With the current landscape and work from home, maybe some team members or there's a perception that team members have lost their connection to the identity of the organization. They no longer have a connection to the brand, or to the mission and so maybe perhaps the CEO, pardon me, is thinking that, you know the branded polo shirts will help connect them to the identity of the organization. I, you know, I could see that perhaps as being a problem that's being solved in implementing this. I don't, I don't know, I mean, I'm not a fan of it, because I think that attire is part of how people show up as their authentic selves and it allows a level of freedom and creativity just in the way in which you dress. That gets restricted when we're asking folks to wear a uniform. You know that's interesting and I can't help but come to this from the lens of a parent who has a child in a uniform school. Right. And, and I remember as a child thinking I don't want to be in a uniform for all the reasons that you describe Tony like I want self expression I want freedom of personality. But what I can tell you from the other side it makes it makes our money so much easier. This is what you wear period end of conversation. One, excuse me one thing I have seen during the pandemic, Joseph is a lot of, of, like, lacks closing clothing right and so I know we talked a lot about like, you know, yoga pants and athlete leisure like just you know just really casual kind of thing. And off record or offline Tony and I both said like, if we didn't have the show today we would have no makeup, and you would have a ball cap on right but we show up for the occasion. And I have seen a lot of organizations the staff members, you know, really downplay how they're showing up for the occasion. So I think it goes back to your employee handbook what is your dress code. What is appropriate and then for us and fundraising you know, I don't know that I'd always feel comfortable in a branded polo because I would want to be dressier than that, you know. So I think there's a time and a place for these branded polos, but I think more over Joseph, you know go into Tony's answer what is the solution this is providing. What is the problem the COO has identified and how might the branded polo shirts solve that problem. And I think maybe there's there's a combination there, and it doesn't say in here. But I do hope if these are required they're also being provided by the agency. They're not being purchased from the employee, it has to be provided from the agency. There's a lot I think to unpack there Joseph and I appreciate, like Tony said you bring this to us the conversation. I would go back to the handbook to see you know what is our dress code, and then also see about those branded polos if there's a time and a place if there's another time and place to wear something else, you know, for, for the occasion, or for the responsibility, because if we go to, I don't know, let's say, you know, any of these community events, and we're wearing a polo shirt, we might actually stand out as opposed to people wearing, you know, their suits and dress to the nines. Right, right exactly and Jared our response to this question makes me think about the last question where you said sorry our answer isn't so black and white it's not so cut and dry. And when I reflect on previous opportunities to be on ask and answer. I'm sure that there are very many opportunities to give a very precise, you know, answer, just because of the nature, I think of the work in the nonprofit sector and all of the variables and when you think about relationships and personalities and, you know, and trying to sometimes you know create a backstory to the questions like you're trying to fill in some of the blanks, because you don't know you know you don't know that the truth the whole picture. A lot of times we are kind of stuck giving this kind of great answer, but hopefully enough to where the folks that are submitting the questions we're giving them some additional, you know, food for thought and things to think about as they come to their own decision. Yeah, I agree. Thank you for that I think to you know it's bringing more to the table for conversation into better understand and I think the more we understand the more we can position that and communicate that with our staff which is, which is so important so Okay, Taylor has a question for you Tony this is Tony bell. How long did it take you to master the cause selling program. I'm working on this program for my own advancement and could use a goal or endpoint. Basically, when will I know I am good at this. I love this question. I do too so Taylor thank you and, and I'm glad that you're investing one just in professional development and professional learning. So, you know kudos to you and high fives for that. And then, you know, equally excited that you're leaning into cost selling and the concepts of cause selling so super excited to hear that you're doing that. I don't have any transparency don't tell anyone, I have not, I have not mastered cause selling. And I don't know that I will ever master cause selling, because I feel like if I ever get to the point where I feel like I have mastered it, then I'm going to get at a point where I'm complacent, and no longer learning from it. And again, kind of going back to, you know, the gray space and the answers. One of the reasons why I don't think I've mastered it is because every relationship is so unique and so different. And so the way in which we implement the strategies and cause selling and the way that we navigate through the cause selling cycle is going to be very different for every individual that we're engaging with. Not only the experience but the time that we invest in each one of the steps or phases of cause selling is going to be very different. But how I feel, how I felt as I was introduced to this curriculum really started living and breathing it. And really where it is part of me at my core. Some of what I started recognizing was a heightened sense of empowerment and confidence in the work that I was doing. So I really felt more empowered and more confident in the process and in the relationships that I was building and the way in which I was navigating the relationships. A good measurement is increased donation. So, you know, investing time and the right individuals, you know, through the cycle and so, you know, increased donations was one way that I kind of gauged whether or not I'm mastering cause selling. And the other thing too was, you know, is retention is donor retention and seeing an increase in donor retention as my stewardship skills, you know, were enhanced through, through learning more about, you know, cause selling and the importance of stewardship. So that would be my answer Jared I don't think I've mastered it. But how I feel like I've learned and grown and, and how I feel, you know, basically when will I know I'm good at this was through those things that I recognized in my work. Again, that's heightened sense of empowerment, you know, feeling of really just good about the work and then seeing the results of it through increased donations and increased retention. Yeah, and that confidence level like you said that that to me really spoke to me when you when you said that so Taylor I can imagine, you know, that you're like okay when will I know I've arrived. And, and I what I'm hearing Tony say is it's a constant process and I'm right there with you Tony I'm a lifelong learner. I'm always looking to get to that next level always looking to grow my resources and my toolbox as we say. And the, the confidence the empowerment as you said, you know it comes uniquely with every constituent every relationship that you get to encounter. So thank you for that Tony and your secrets safe with us. I mean it's only blasted on, you know, pretty much every streaming channel but we'll make sure you know it doesn't get out for that's okay that's okay I'm leading into transparency it's an important part of this work. Good. Absolutely. I love that. Well Taylor best of luck I hope that you know the advancement in your career serves you well and would love to hear how you're coming along in the process. And would love, I mean, I think it'd be really cool Tony to hear how Taylor's feeling more empowered and confident. Yeah, and I just wanted to and, and you know and I'll say, I'm not trying to do a shameless plug but just in case Taylor hasn't seen it our learning portal. So if you go to you know fundraising dash Academy dot org, one you know you'll have all of the webinars that have been done and and resources there but you'll also have access to our portal which I believe is my learning portal dot org. And all of the cost selling content is available there in a really robust and fun to navigate learning portal Taylor so in case you don't know that that exists that'll help you along your cost selling journey. Fantastic that's a that's a great plug it was is necessary. Okay, name with held has our final question for today from Santa Fe, New Mexico. We are going to announce the retirement of our CEO and have a new CEO coming on. She is not an internal hire, and she is coming from another part of our state. How long do you think the current CEO should stay on advise and welcome her into the community before he leaves. Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. I think the role thought is that the role the primary role of the retiring CEO is to help build a bridge with individuals corporation right is to help navigate the relationships and make introductions for the new leader that's coming into the organization. And that is what I see as the primary reason for the retiring CEO to to stay on maybe for, you know, another 30 days, because my assumption is that you have hired top talent, and you have a individual coming in with lots of ideas and an understanding of the community that you're serving or the area in which you, you support. So, you know, so get out of the way, let them come in and do the work that they've been hired to do, but make sure that the relationships that are important to the success of the organization are not disrupted and that those connections are made before the retirement CEO goes out on there, you know, 90 day crews. Yeah, I'm with you this is a solid question, really good, really solid succession planning is big in our community, it should be even bigger and conversation and succession, planning at all levels I think is really, really important. I serve as you know, Tony as an interim except executive leader succession leader, and I serve in a couple of different roles, and when it comes to the CEO role, what I like to say to to my client is, I'm not staying on right to on board essentially with the CEO, he she or they, again, we're hiring them at that level, I can stay to assist them, but the reins are in their hands, right, like you no longer call on me, I'm not the CEO, you no longer asked me for my opinion like you have to hire and trust the organization and their decisions with the with the leader in which you've chosen that I feel very strongly about. And I think they're actually this might not be popular opinion can be some damage done when a former CEO stays on. That's how we continue to do the same old same old and that definition of insanity. This is how we've always done it so I just anticipate that you're going to continue doing this marathon the same way I ran and trained the marathon. And I don't subscribe to that I'm a big disruptor when it comes to that. And for that reason is a big reason why I say, you know, thank you, it is time, time to move to the next leadership. But I also feel that there's a lot of this transition and communication that can take place prior to the person coming on right, and this comes with a solid communication plan solid communication plan which should also be baked into your succession planning. And I think that that goes for a board chair I think that goes for anyone at that executive level. And then I also firmly believe when it comes to the donor database and relationships, there should be multiple layers of relationships and not one person hold and own any given relationship so you can tell I could stand on the soapbox for a while. But I really really just, you know, again, I'll finish this up but I really want you to trust the leader in what you've hired to do well and and as you said Tony like we're hiring competent people let them do what they're hired to do. Right well and it's really important again that you brought up succession planning. You know I'll go back to the phrase I say all the time. You know I didn't create it we hear people say it all the time. You know one C three is a tax status not a business model. So you know succession planning is a best practice and something that every organization, you know should be considering and should have in place. Yeah, absolutely. So when it comes to how long do you think the current CEO should stay on, advise welcome into the community. I think every organization should have a top leader partner list you know like, who are those key stakeholders. How are they, how are we related to them and connected to them. And I think that should be an ongoing like key information piece within our organization so that we know who we are doing business with and again just those like top key stakeholders. Absolutely. That's, that's it I'm stepping off my box. Good thing it wasn't the first question. We would still be going on it. I know we would still be going on it, but thank you these are fantastic questions we save again to answer them with an expert at fundraising Academy. Today we have Tony and just so thrilled to have you back here and to join us today on Veterans Day when we realize many of our followers are off and I hope that you're enjoying a much needed relaxing time, but you know you can find us on on the recordings, but I do want to thank our sponsors that allow these conversations to continue. Yeah, thank you to blooming American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University. Be generous, your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader, as well as the nonprofit nerd, and a big round of applause to Mr Tony bell senior director relationship center at the fundraising Academy with National University. Again so grateful and I had no idea that National University was veteran founded. So that's a great fun fact for today. Yeah. That's amazing. Well hey you provided us so much insight so grateful to have that from you Tony. The portal is where it's at so let's definitely, you know remind our viewers and our listeners to check out the fundraising Academy website actually let me pull up your, your card again here, so that people know where to find it fundraising dash Academy.org for those of you listening hopefully you're a walk and podcasting us, but yeah check out the online portal that Tony mentioned. Fantastic there's so many resources, the YouTube channel for fundraising Academy is fantastic as well so fundraising Academy.org is where you want to check out so. Great. Thank you. Yeah, thank you and thanks for joining us today thanks to all of you for joining us today. And again we wish you a very restful weekend. We'll be back here on Monday and until then please stay well. So you can do well. Thanks Tony.