 Good afternoon, colleagues. I hope you can hear me in the back over there. Thank you. My name is Siddish Kapoor. I'm the president and principal of King's College London, and it's my pleasure to extend a very warm welcome to all of you now, as you would know. We are gathered here to hear the launch, and that's the right metaphor, of the defense space strategy, which will set out a vision for UK as a global actor in a space domain that has increasingly congested and competitive. It will articulate how the ministry will deliver the protect and defend goal of the national space strategy. We are very grateful to the Ministry of Defense, to the Minister, the Chief of Air Staff, for using us as a launchpad for this strategy. As some of you would know, King's has had nearly a 200-year history of a very constructive partnership with our armed forces. I might need to remind you that our founder was the Duke of Wellington. A commendable number of King's alumni have served in the armed forces. Several officers have served as principals of King's. But the number that we're most proud of are the number of senior armed services personnel who go on to become the alumni of King's through their association with our joint staff college in Shrivenham. And on that accord, I'm really delighted to announce that just a few weeks ago, we announced that this partnership between King's and military education will continue for another seven years. So it is a particular pleasure to welcome the Minister for Defense Procurement, Honorable Jeremy Quinn, a welcome to you. Our Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston. Sir Mike, of course, is no stranger to these quarters. We've had the privilege of hearing from you on the issue of next zero as a speaker. But one of the reasons why we are all here is because of the Freeman Air and Space Institute. It is an institute set up at King's to provide independent original knowledge and understanding of air and space issues. And I would particularly like to thank the support that Air Vice Marshal Huff Smith has provided to the Freeman Institute. But the reason the Institute stands, of course, is Professor John Gerson. He's the founding director of the Institute. He holds a chair in national security studies. And we're, of course, proud that he's not only a professor, but was also a student at King's. So with those words, I hand it over to you, John, to continue on the proceedings. And a welcome to all of you. Principal, thank you very much indeed. We're delighted to be here today hosting this important release of the Defense Space Strategy. The Freeman Institute is a valued cooperation between King's, the RAF and DSTL. And while our Institute focuses on air and space power, space is a subject that we have devoted significant attention to. There's been a recurring topic in our activities. Freeman Center Institute has published a range of papers on space subjects as diverse as mediating space security, the author of which is in the room, space situational awareness warfare and the integrated review and UK space power. All of them are available online. Indeed, our first fully funded PhD position was awarded to Julia Baum, the previously said author, who is in the room, I believe, for her projects on space policy. And we've since invested in two more PhD projects being undertaken by Ben Norfield and Aaron Dawson, who are both with us today. It's work like theirs that's going to shape air and space policy in the future. And the Freeman intends to go further in the coming years by identifying ways to support wider access for underrepresented groups to work on air and space power subjects. So space has been a recurring topic because it is one that's clearly going to impact our future national security and that of many other countries as well as core defence activities and posture. Following the launch of the National Space Star strategy last September, I'm delighted to be able to introduce our keynote speakers for this launch. The Minister of Defence Procurement, Jeremy Quinn MP. Mr. Quinn worked in corporate finance for 25 years, latterly as Managing Director of Deutsche Bank. He was elected an MP for Horsham in 2015 and has since served as a senior whip and parliamentary secretary in the Cabinet Office. He was appointed Minister of Defence Procurement in February 2020. And great friend of Freeman, the Chief of the Air Staff, Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, joined the Air Force in 1986 on a university scholarship and qualified on tornado in 1992. He served a number of overseas positions, tours rather, including Iraq, Qatar and Afghanistan. In 2015, he became Commander of British Forces Cyprus following tours as Assistant Chief of the Air Staff and Deputy Commander Capability. He was appointed Chief of the Air Staff in July 2019. The speakers are going to introduce the document and then there'll be a short media Q&A followed by a panel discussion thereafter. Mr. Quinn. Kes. Thank you, John. Thank you, Professor Kapoor. And actually, on a personal level, I'm speaking at Sherwin and on Thursday. And I'm delighted that we had that continuing partnership. We got a lot out of it. Our personnel got a huge amount out of it. And it's great to be working together for another seven years. The Professor, introducing also, told me something I had not known before coming here today, which is the role of Wellington in founding this very august institution. It's fair to say that Wellington was a better soldier than he was a politician. It said that when he called as Prime Minister, he was Prime Minister for a couple of years, when he called his first cabinet, he described how he had got them all together, sat them in the room and given them their orders. And he went on to say, and blow me, they sat there wanting to discuss them. I've got no idea what they were thinking. I've got no idea what he would have been thinking about the challenges we now face. For hundreds of years prior to Wellington and since we've been facing threats on land and at sea. For the last century, we've been facing the challenge of air warfare. It is in the nature of modern technology that we continuously have to evolve to face the threats of the future. It is a huge pleasure to be here today to discuss one such opportunity and threat. It's the next step in the execution of our integrated review, the defense command paper and DSIS. A lot has happened in defense since we launched those documents last year. From assisting in homeland resilience, and issues as varied as vaccine delivery to HGV support, to the largest Royal Navy deployment in decades, making our positive presence felt on the very far side of the world. Above all, as I speak, the Defense Secretary is meeting NATO partners across Europe, discussing the truly concerning situation on Ukraine's borders. The most serious threat of a major war on our continent since the fall of the Berlin Wall. However, the British people know what they can always expect from UK defence. It's calm and determined delivery. And while meeting our operational commitments, we are continuing to progress a positive future for defence to ensure that we can meet the threats of the future with the most modern, integrated, technologically advanced forces reaching out through every domain. One of the threats of the future we need to face, a threat that has the ability to fundamentally threaten so many of our key interests in and from space. Building on our national approach published last year, we promised a defence space strategy, which I'm proud to announce today. We know the opportunities that space delivers from effective global communications through to ISR. We also know of the threat. Several states are pursuing hostile capabilities that can disrupt and deny others' use of space. A few months ago, Russia recklessly destroyed an inactive satellite, sending debris spinning around the Earth and endangering the International Space Station. Just consider a simple single fleck of paint travelling in space at five miles per second in low Earth orbit can cause huge damage to critical space assets. What we're talking about here with Russia's action is at least 1,500 pieces of debris that we can track. In reality, it's probably 10-fold that, travelling at that speed through space with potential to cause disastrous results to any space equipment with which it collides. Such irresponsible actions underline the dangers in a domain on which we place ever greater reliance. Satellite constellations in orbit link up almost every aspect of our daily lives, from mobile phones, the internet and television, to transport networks and the world's financial trading systems. Our allies and we rely on space to deliver global communications, provide surveillance intelligence and missile warning, as well as support our deployed forces globally. So our new defence space strategy sets out a plan for us to become more resilient, more robust and a more significant space player on the global stage. We've begun laying the groundwork. Last April, we established the single joint UK space command that will conduct day-to-day space operations, deliver leading edge capabilities and generate the force structure we need. And last September, we published our first integrated national space strategy. It set out our ambition to strengthen the UK status as a well-classed space nation and become one of the most innovative and attractive space economies in the world. Defence is integral to this ambition. So we've been investing to deliver. In addition to the £5 billion over 10 years already allocated to our future Skynet satellite communications, a further £1.4 billion has been allocated to support defence operations over the next decade. Our priorities are set out in today's strategy. £970 million will go into our new ISTARI programme. This puts in place the foundations of the next-generation constellation of ISR in low-Earth orbit. They'll be fitted with a variety of sensors which can see across multiple aspects of the spectrum, allowing for 24-7 observation capabilities, whatever the weather. Related to this, we're investing £61 million in a programme called Titania, which will experiment with optical laser communication technology. This will enable the transfer of data into and from space at an equivalent capacity, high-speed broadband. £85 million is destined to develop our space domain awareness capabilities, enhancing our ability to properly understand activity and space, stretching as far as geostationary orbit and beyond, more than £36,000K away from the Earth. Our space domain awareness activity also includes close collaboration with our US and Australian partners on the Deep Space Advanced Radar Capability programme announced last July by the Defence Secretary. A £135 million has been allocated to boost our command and control capabilities over the decade. Besides underpinning our new space command, this cash will deliver our Aurora programme, developing the architecture on which we'll build game-changing apps so our commanders can make rapid decisions in real time. Finally, we are investing £145 million on space control to explore capabilities that can deliver carefully calibrated effects to protect our access to space and our operational independence. Our ambitions don't end there and they're not capped at £1.4 billion. So today I'm delighted to announce we're going to invest a further £127 million over the next four years in Minerva. This project emerged from a drag-and-stand star process, testing the great ideas that come from the Defence Innovation Unit. Minerva is about the best means to deliver the digital backbone upon which our space enterprise will depend. It is focused on the processing power, the radio frequencies, the imaging capabilities and the data streams to deliver space-based intelligence. Not only will it make us fully interoperable, enabling us to tap into our key space allies, but it will allow us to share what space-derived data we discover across every domain in a timely manner. First of all, we're working closely with UK companies to deliver it. Together, Minerva and Aistari will form the building blocks of our Defence Space MSR capability. Collectively, they'll help us learn lessons about how to sporadically develop our capabilities in an agile manner, outpacing both the rapidity of technological advancement and potential adversaries. As I hope I've begun to show, this strategy is more than just about capabilities. It is about partnerships, government working as one with industry and international allies. With this in mind, I'm delighted to announce another really exciting innovation. Our Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, DSTL, is manufacturing a tiny Shubot-sized satellite, otherwise known as Prometheus II. Manufactured in the UK, it is operated by the company In Space Missions, with ground station support from DSTL's international partners and Airbus Defence and Space UK. Despite its tiny size, Prometheus's payload will include a hyperspectral imager from Cozine measurement systems, global positioning receivers from the University of New South Wales. A wide field of view imager from Canadensis and multiple software-defined radios from Airbus UK. This exciting project is hugely innovative. We're testing the concept experimenting, pushing the boundaries, investing to stay on the cutting edge. And on top of this huge pipeline of space investment, coming down the track, we've got our Skynet 6A satellite being billed by Airbus Defence and Space. It remains on track for launch in 2025. These investments are about security, but they're also about prosperity. Government has already helped to create a thriving UK space sector worth over 16.4 billion per year with a strong talent pipeline employing over 45,000 people in fields from satellite manufacturing to research. This makes the UK an excellent location for space businesses. The funding I've announced today represents a significant boost for the UK space industry and will play a key part in stimulating wider innovation, commercialisation and growth. Rest assured, we will continue working evermore closely with industry to develop the space technologies needed to maintain our advantage and amplify our competitive edge. Knowing that, as we do, our innovative space research and development will inspire a new generation and enhance the expertise of an entire sector. So today, we're boldly pushing back the frontiers of our defence space ambitions. Not just enhancing our military resilience, strengthening our security and furthering our prosperity, we are applying rocket boosters to the UK's innovative instincts and helping our space sector surge ahead of the threats we'll face in the future. Thank you for joining us today. It's a pleasure to hand over to the Chief of the Air Staff. With this strategy, the Ministry of Defence will protect and promote the UK's interests in space and we'll take a leading role in the coalition of like-minded nations and organisations who've come together to ensure that space is there for the benefit of all. Space is fundamental to our national security and our way of life. Any loss or disruption of our access to space would have a disastrous effect on people's day-to-day lives. What is happening hundreds of miles or more away is not something our average citizen frets about. We don't hear much about a disruption to space services at a personal level and how they could affect all of us. No bank transactions, little food on the shelves, no petrol in the pumps, traffic grid lock and a malfunctioning national power grid. We are all dependent on space, whether that's in our personal lives or in my case, commanding air and space operations. So we must ensure the safety and security of the space domain. In defence terms, space gives us and our closest allies a unique operational advantage. Every military operation from a land battle to the carrier strike group is dependent on space. Space operations for the Royal Air Force are not conceptual or experimental forays into sci-fi. They are an essential element of the multi-domain integrated force of today. And space is a natural continuum of the air domain where the importance of gaining and maintaining control of the air can equally apply in its way to the space domain. And we have work to do. Space is far from a benign environment with almost daily cyber attacks and dubious sub-threshold activity. In recent years, Russia and China have tested anti-satellite weapons, creating debris fields that will linger for decades, posing threats to the satellites and the space systems on which the world depends. Russian satellites continually make close approaches to other satellites, what we call rendezvous and proximity operations, possibly an indication of espionage activity or possibly rehearsing for something much more sinister. Meanwhile, China seeks to become the world's preeminent space power by 2045, an aspiration supported by its developments in cyber, electromagnetic and kinetic systems that potentially could threaten other users in space. So we must continue to build our understanding of what malign actors are doing in space and the means of protecting our critical interests and freedom of operation in space. We will do this through the UK Space Command, a joint command attracting our brightest and best, which was established at RAF High Wycombe on the 1st of April last year, bringing together a cadre of experts from across the United Kingdom armed forces, our allies, the civil service and industry to integrate, coordinate and deliver decisive space power in a truly national endeavour. At its heart, the UK Space Operations Centre is the UK Armed Forces operational level command and control organisation that provides space effects across all domains and monitors what our potential adversaries are doing 24-7. This was demonstrated only too clearly late last year with the Russian anti-satellite test you just heard the minister speaking about. I'm proud to say our UK Space Operations Centre immediately proved its worth. It took a leading role in the debris tracking and categorisation which ultimately led to warnings of a potential threat to life to those working on the International Space Station including Russian nationals. Last year we published the UK's national space strategy and today I'm delighted to be here at the launch of our defence space strategy. In the context of what I've just described it describes it defines the Ministry of Defence as critical role in the protect and defend element of the national strategy. Utilising our space systems and platforms our operational expertise and our partnerships while also growing our cadre of space operators ready for the challenges of the future. We have three strategic objectives. The first is protecting and defending our interests in and through space. This includes being able to identify and attribute threats to our space systems and then respond in a proportionate and coordinated way. Secondly it's to integrate space operations into defence and security multi-domain operations including the delivery of resilient and assured space services such as satellite communications or intelligence gathering which are crucial to our operations today and into the future. And thirdly it's to develop upskill and grow our cadre of space experts from across the Royal Navy the Army the Royal Air Force and the Civil Service equipping future generations with the skills to face the threats of the future. Our ultimate success within the space domain rests with our next generation of space operators whose interests intellect experience and professionalism we must develop now. We will own our own capabilities and lead their development where there is a pressing sovereign advantage to do so. But we will collaborate where we can from projects with our leader ally the United States to supporting the UK space agencies UK space launch programs and we will assure access to the shared resources of our like-minded allies and coalition partners. As you've already heard from the Minister we are making considerable investments in our military capabilities through our defence space portfolio capitalising on the UK's world-leading science and space technology sector. Our SkyNet program provides a constellation of assured and secure satellite communications representing a strategic investment of five billion pounds and a critical national capability into the 2040s and beyond. Our additional investment of 1.4 billion over the next decade that you through the programs that you've just heard about like Minerva, Aistari or Aurora and Prometheus 2 will enhance our understanding of the threats and hazards within the space domain. They will give our armed forces assured access to the highest quality real-time information and intelligence as they increasingly operate around the globe. They will provide novel sensor combinations able to identify and track targets and directly support the warfighter across all domains and they will gain greater understanding of emerging technologies which can be used to protect and defend our interests. This coherent and growing program of investment will underpin our defence vision and mission in space in close collaboration with our strategic allies and partners. This is the foundation of an exciting future for UK defence in this exciting operational domain. Space is critical to the day-to-day life of every citizen in the United Kingdom. That is why this government has published the UK's first national space strategy The ambition is clear the space sector is important to the nation and as a nation we must be at the forefront of the explosion of technological and commercial opportunities in space. And from a military perspective its contribution to current and future multi-domain military operations is ever more significant and non-discretionary. That is why the publication of our defence space strategy is so important to better protect and promote the UK's interest in space and make a leading edge contribution to the coalition of like-minded nations and organisations who have come together to ensure that space is there for the benefit of all. Thank you. Thank you very much. So we have a few questions. We're now going to take some questions from the press which I'm going to coordinate but not manage. So if we can have the first question. To the white side of the eyes. And if you wouldn't mind identifying who you are and where you work. Thank you. John Porathebe in Financial Times. Excuse this probably stupid question but it's taken a few years for the space strategy to come to fruition and I just wondered what were the problems that had to be resolved or the focus that had to be resolved to arrive to where we are today towards refinement. I'm glad to start off on that one if you wouldn't mind. That's a slightly mean way of looking at it if you don't mind me saying. I think I would look at it in a different perspective. We had a fantastic settlement for defence with the spending review an extra 24 billion pounds of investment and it's right that we look at space in the correct context of the threat and making certain that we are investing appropriately in all the domains. So we had work to do in sea, land, air but the other areas of investment in space and in cyber were absolutely necessary in the context of that integrated review and the defence command paper. So it's not like we've not been involved in space I mean I think we first got involved in space in 69 and continuously since 1988. So we've always had that awareness, that presence in the Skynet five billion pounds has long been committed but with the integrated review is a time for pause and reflection about what do we really need to do to set ourselves up for the future and to make certain that we're covering off these as Kaz was saying these critical areas of capability and that's why I'm proud that we are standing now with the defence space strategy following hard on the heels of the national space strategy but if Kaz wants to add into that only to say that it reflects a the growing significance of all space domain activity in defence and across government which mirrors the explosion over the last decade in space access space exploration and launches into the thousands per year which is unprecedented compared to previous years so we are we are reflecting what is happening more widely in the space domain and the fact that the space strategy is launched as a document today it doesn't mean to say that we haven't been working to a strategy within the Ministry of Defence because we haven't it has been a journey to get to this point and I'm delighted that we can openly talk about the significant uplift in investment the rationalising of all of our space activities in the Ministry of Defence around and around UK Space Command and the way that plugs into other parts of government like the UK Space Agency and the ambition for this government for the UK to take a leading role in space Hi there Tim Robinson Aerospace Magazine we're aware of the Society a couple of things didn't get simply mentioned or at least I don't think they were mentioned is Artemis and precision and navigation timing you know the Galilea replacement which you would afford to have a strong military application and role so what's happened to those two please yeah so the some of the programs that we mentioned there are are capping programs and Artemis and in particular some of the things that we learned in Artemis around the command and control and the the how you communicate with with space systems how you share how you move information the ground the ground stations element of that is a is a core part of some of the other programs that were mentioned so Minerva leading to the the Ishtari ISR network so so we learned an awful lot from Artemis it was a rapid capability development program and and it's alive and well as a constituent element of the programs that have been talked about earlier this afternoon and just adding in particularly on PNT you'll find that it is specifically referred to in the document Chapter 5 I think but it's definitely in there and and further work on it and above all on that it's incredibly important it is a huge area of focus and I'm sorry to have to draw your attention to yet another MOD strategy paper that has been a lot of them over the last year as you know and if you look at our science and technology strategy again PNT as an important part and it's absolutely clear that's an area that we're going to be developing for the future Hi it's Olivia from James I'm just asking do you have a timeline on Project Minerva? I know on the press announcement there was a mention that there was it was due to be it's sort of commenced and it was due to be finished and finalized in due course so I was just wondering if you have any more update on that So Minerva has already begun and it's a phase program initially looking at small numbers of satellites then looking at how we bring together packs of satellites that can cooperate together and this is again activity happening hundreds and hundreds of miles away at enormous speeds and so how you control a formation of satellites collaborating closely as an area that we will explore in the next phase and then the follow on phase after that is around how we collaborate with our allies and like-minded nations and most significant of course of that is the United States all of that goes back to the Artemis ground stations I was talking about as well and this is something that we will be sort of developing each phase at a time over the next 10 years but the program has already begun as I say I see apologies Connor String from the Daily Mail is it fair to say that the MLD is now preparing for war in space with Russia and if that's the case when do you think we could see that battleground shift from where it is now into into into orbit in space absolute objective is to prevent any risk of war in space so the work we're doing the United Nations which the MLD works with the Foreign Office on very closely we there's a very well received UN General Assembly resolution that the UK sponsored which is about establishing norms and proper uses in space in the same way that over many centuries we developed the ways of operating safely and securely at sea we need to have the same norms established in the in space as well and we're the absolute forefront of that so that's what we're about we're about the safe exploitation of space for the benefit of all people that's our objective and part of that is the investments you're seeing today making certain for example that we have space to main awareness so we are absolutely and acutely aware what others are up to how the threat may evolve and then we can call them out when they fall below those norms that we are hoping to establish globally from my my perspective I think planning for the worst and hoping for the best applies in this situation as it does in many things in our world at the moment I think you have to think through you have to recognize some of the reckless nefarious activity that is now going on in space that we haven't seen previously and we have to be given what I was saying a few moments ago given our reliance on space in every aspect of our day-to-day lives we have to think about how we make our activity in space our key platforms in space more resilient to that nefarious reckless activity this is not about weaponizing weaponizing space this is about protecting our national interests in space Sirs John Lake from ADS Advance I wonder there's obviously no fault in the vision and the forward-looking nature of what you're talking about but you talked about space becoming a more contested domain which is obviously familiar stuff do you see the primary threat to UK space capabilities as itself being space-based or ground-based you know is it a matter of primarily of cyber espionage all of this kind of thing or is it a space-based threat to our capabilities the simple answer is all of the above cyber is a very interesting point you raise there is room for disruption and deliberate miscommunication by cyber means to space assets there are things we can do about that actually one of the programs I referred to operating via lasers enables rapid communications far harder to disrupt but Michael if you want to add into that no I think with something that we are so reliant on it falls to us to explore every area that could be vulnerable and make sure that we are as resilient as we can be and I would recognize all of those areas that you described as potential vulnerabilities that we are addressing Alan Thompson from Skyrura I'd like to start by congratulating you on the launch of this new space strategy a document that can help companies and industry engage with this line of direction I'd be interested to ask the question about sovereign versus assured I heard assured on a number of occasions already mentioned this morning sorry this afternoon and obviously just heard a bit about the nation's interests I'd be interested to know if there's a dynamic from assured towards more sovereign and also like to understand how this document reflects how you are planning to engage with the new capabilities that arise over these 10 years the examples that we have within space and the outstanding example of Prometheus and this kind of project how are you taking into account these new capabilities that you may need to understand of where you're going to get them from and engaging with the innovative companies who are going to be able to provide those capabilities thank you From the three points I made and then Chief Fiestaff will come in and then perhaps I may have to depart John if that's okay with you on the firstly our mantras own collaborate and access that's set out in the document but there are areas that are going to be necessary sovereign capabilities that we will need to keep onshore and that is a dialogue we're going to be having with industry this launch was important but just like DCIS it marks the start of an ever-growing engagement through that but the key thing in terms of collaboration with our allies and access to other technologies is to have product is to have skin in the game there are countless examples in other fields of endeavor in defence procurement when it is because that we have something critical we bring to the party that we get that privileged access with our closest friends to ensure that we can really drive this forward and achieve what we need to do on a sovereign basis so the mantra is own collaborate access this is part of a journey where we're going to be on I'd also like to mention the you refer to where we're going to be in 10 years time and you refer to innovation this is such an extraordinarily exciting field that no one in this room knows for certain exactly where we'll be in 10 years time we could all give a good steer at exactly where we think we might be but it depends on that innovation and in that speech today I get incredibly infused by how colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and elsewhere are through Dragonstone processes other processes seizing what is a hugely rich scene in academia here in the UK and a really exciting nascent space industry I'd say a 16.4 billion a year is a significant is a significant industry we have in the UK I'm making certain that we are driving these innovative ideas some of them will succeed and flourish some of them won't but we're on that journey and I think it's absolutely critical the timing is right now for us to make this investment to ensure that we are going to be driving that innovation forward and if it's not corny I'd say the sky's the limit but probably is bye Minister thank you the sky isn't the limit I suppose so that balance between sovereign and assured use of allied capabilities and systems I think that's an excellent question for the expert panel that will follow us but all I would add is that I think everyone in the room from the space and aerospace industry would recognize the significant and clear statement of intent from this government around sovereign capabilities it's in the industrial strategy and it could not be more prominent in our decision making so I would leave you that thought but do come back to that question and then the point about rapid capability adoption that is exactly the principle that the team from the from UK space commander adopting they are following the the ethos and the principles of the RAF's rapid capability office we want to engage with small and medium enterprises we want to know what's going on and the Prometheus program is and it pluses through DSTL is a fantastic example of that and I know that there is more to come in that regard Thank you very much indeed and thank you very much for the launch of a really interesting document which we're going to discuss in a bit more detail so could I whilst we transit to our expert panel they're going to take the tough questions if you could just have one minute in place stand up but don't leave the room and will we convene in one minute as we let the minister right thank you so with the setup from Cass to this panel to answer the tough questions and to introduce our panelists briefly and then move straight on to questions Executive Director David Jordan is going to be working with a laptop taking questions from space ether and space in this case and we're going to try and make it work together so forgive us if it's a bit funky to start with so I will just go through in the in the order that I printed it but there's no primacy at all Halv Smith Smith advice Marshall is the UK's director of space leaving the space director of the ministry of defence director it was responsible for the development of the defence space strategy and assisted another panelist who I'll introduce a minute Rebecca Evan Den's team and BEIS in the development of the national space strategy the directorate is also responsible for capability planning across government and international coherence Airbus Marshall Paul Godfrey is commander of what we heard as UK space command joint organization which was formed in April of last year and officially stood up at the new headquarters at High Wickham on the 29th of July nice impressive building that I walk past on the way to our sponsors sometimes the command's role is to deliver the operational training and capability aspects of the defence space strategy Natalie Moore is head of space policy at the ministry of defence she was also involved in producing last year's national space strategy ensuring that defence activity aligns with and supports wider government ambition for space and Rebecca Evan Den is the first director space for the department of business energy and industrial strategy she leads BEIS's space directorate established last year as a collaboration with the M.O.D for the support from other government departments so a panel who should be able to answer all the questions about space and excuse me whilst I transit to the without falling to the you know you know you know you know you need it's a risky way it's a risky way it's a risky way it's a risky way it's a risky way it's a risky way it's a risky way I'm going to abuse the chair's position and ask the first question and then probably we'll take a question from the internet and thereafter as we heard from one of the earlier questions people have been pressing for this strategy to arrive for for some time the minister said that was a bit unfair my question is what does this launch mean for you as deliverers of the policy what are you now unable to do that you could not perform who wants to start that off I'll start to say we later on so thanks John I think the reality is there's very little that we've not been able to progress in the time that we've been waiting to get the strategy published and the reason for that is because what the minister talked about earlier which just says specifically that we've got the settlement in place nice and early so we knew what money we had and we could get on and plan against that and it was all approved and profiled what it does unlock for us though is what we've done today and it's the ability to speak to our broader international partners across the sector to lay out our ambition and specifically to lay out exactly where we're allocating the money over the next decade and hopefully that will help inform everyone that's outside looking in to UK defence and where our priorities sit and maybe how they skew their activity to help us do it as a collaboration which is the theme of the whole strategy really it's collaborating and alliances but it also allows us to build the path into the work that we're going to do next and actually that's really as important if not more so and perhaps Natalie can talk to that in a second as we shift our crosshairs off of policy writing and strategy and all the money into the actual implementation planning that's where the rubber will hit the road but maybe Natalie you want to take a bit more on that Yeah just a couple of thoughts for me I agree with all of that I think what it allows us to do in publishing this is send a really clear signal internationally about the fact that defence intends to be a meaningful player in space and that we intend to support global efforts to keep space safe and sustainable and provide resilience to our allies and partners as we do that so it allows us to send that really clear signal publicly I think the other point I wanted to make was it delivers one of the five goals of the national space strategy which was to protect and defend UK interests in and through space so this strategy really sets out in quite some detail how we're going to actually deliver that goal and feeds neatly into the implementation of the national space strategy which my team is working very closely with Rebecca's team in shaping so we're jointly coming up with the implementation plan and working that through now so we're moving we've already moved into implementation mode we're looking at where we can exploit synergies between the civil side and the defence sphere on the skills front on the capabilities front on a number of different fronts so I think it's important from that perspective as well just one for me if I may take the air staff sort of trail of it but something for UK space market I know with industry partners in the room I've been training this previously anyway but it sets out that we want to do this in a sort of agile manner and certainly the delivery of the announcement of the national of the defence space strategy today has allowed us to plan for an industry day that we'll be having on the on the 30th March we're actually we want to hear from you where we want to hear how we can better integrate with you how we can better collaborate with you and how do we get those new ideas to bring into this strategy when you know how much we've allocated the various areas and I think that'll allow you to come to that industry day better equipped to have that conversation and how we bring the SMEs into the discussion as well those small companies I've been to several over the last almost year that I've been in the role here I always go on the lockups in Guildford where there's some amazing stuff going on and how we bring that into our future space capability I think that we were here with Rebecca do you want to talk to me? Well just to say I mean this is great to see that this strategy is out as Natty has said it gets us ahead in implementing one of the pillars of the National Space Strategy and you know we are now in full implementation mode the strategy was published in September given us a bit of time to work out how we want to abrogate the work streams to ensure that we quickly move into delivery mode and and Harve and I and Paul and Natalie and our teams are working ever more closely to make sure that there's an integrated delivery plan for strategy and of course the defence space strategy is absolutely at the heart of all of that David do you want to come in with a question for me please? Yes please Louisa Brown for the times has been waiting patiently and this might involve bits of audits participation as well she inquires when the chief ES staff talks about Russia potentially rehearsing for something more sinister does this mean attacking UK satellites and what could the impact of this be? I think that's a question as well the members of the panel may have a very vivid view on as well and whether the chief wishes to intervene I don't know but I'll hand it over to you I think the chief's into meaning is like we don't have a go at it so I it's not necessarily a specific event it's a conglomeration of all the different events that we say and when you bring that all together it's the aggregate that paints a threat picture that is quite starkly different than what we've seen in recent years and as Kaz very eloquently described earlier it's about you know planning for the worst and hoping for the best and the defence based strategy in particular the early analysis that we did to underpin the thinking behind it was very much threat led and that threat analysis has forced us into a certain thinking on this is what the strategy needs to be and upfront on that which has come out light and clear today is this idea of deepening and increasing our ability to conduct space domain analysis which isn't just working out there's something up there it's working out what's there what it's doing and importantly what's the intent and that SDA idea will then underpin how we take our other capabilities forward so it's not just one thing it's the aggregate of what we're saying happening Yes certainly I decode all of that and I think the chief and the minister alluded to everything to me it's that final point it's ultimately about attribution as we've done in a range of different areas you could say the Novicek incident in Salisbury ultimately that was about attribution and so it is understanding what's what's going on up there you know for the last 15 to 20 years or so the Skarnet constellation has sat there relatively unmolested and the chief talked about rendezvous proximity operations which are concerning and you need specialized equipment to be able to see 36,000 kilometers away which is two and a half times the distance between here in London and Sydney you know so attribution is difficult and that is what we are aim to get out in terms of that space domain analysis that the HALF talks about Slightly following on from that there's a brief section talking about deterrence in the paper I just wondered whether you were seeing as somewhere where or should we put it there's deterrence in space and there's deterrence of space and I wonder where your thinking is going in terms of having the sponsor options which might be one of those but how far you see this and even in a crisis like the one we may or may not be facing in the last weeks whether this is an area where we might see deterrence in as well as off-space Natalie's actually leaving on the spot great so just a thought on deterrence which is that I think we need to be careful about talking about space deterrence so we talk very much and our US colleagues talk about this too but about integrated deterrence and that's integrated across policy military integrated across all domains all capabilities and very much integrated with our partners and taking a sort of effects effects-based approach that's very tailored towards the adversary in question so I do think we need to be cautious about about narrowing our focus down to space deterrence I was also going to just as relevant to the last question as well just bridge on to the importance of soft power in all of this the minister talked about it earlier but the work with the foreign income wealth development office is doing on rules and norms of behaviour in space through the UN and we're very very closely plugged into that from an MOD perspective and that in a sense is deterrence in itself because that conversation that we're having internationally about establishing those baselines of acceptable behaviour are starting to build that international consensus around what is acceptable and taking examples like the recent Russian ASAP test and explaining why that collectively we as a community view that as an unacceptable behaviour and I think John if I may one of the key takeaways from this is just how multifaceted space is and how interlaced this to everything we do and sometimes we get well-aid to think that something going on in space means we must respond in space and the reality is a lot of the time the correct response to space action may happen in another domain and having that broader approach which is why we're so keen to do cross-government work to work with international allies just allows us to have a much more sophisticated approach to this idea of integrated deterrence which is say as I say a little bit more elegant than just you did this in space so we'll do this in space it's slightly more complex than that absolutely absolutely general strategies will be very interesting in space David do we have another question from the internet? Yes we do let me ask one from Philip Day he inquires outside of large UK what can the military do to support the UK space infrastructure such that MOD has access to rapid diverse capability options he also asks a follower in so far as is the MOD planning to support civil efforts to regenerate maintain MOD assets of the UK's own ownership or a hybrid of the two Yeah so I'll take that one we were out in the US last week actually and talking with United States Space Force about responsive launch actually they're calling it responsive access to space you know so that's about having if it's satellites you know it's about having those in the store to be able then rapidly launch them you know something as we will see this year in terms of version orbit operating at a corner so we're really interested to understand all of the elements of that what do you need to do and actually is it something that we can provide at the wider allies and partners and in terms of regeneration I think the proliferation of satellites in Leo and what we are doing with Astari and a lot of the programs that you heard about today in lower orbit sorry throwing out space terms at the end in lower orbit the advantage we have there is a sort of three to five year span where these things are de-orbiting which a provides sustainability but b upgrade ability when you come to these these capabilities so it is a continuous turn of upgraded capability as companies like OneWeb and Starlink are actually showing it so I think it's a it's a hugely exciting area that is developing and even as the chief mentioned you know our most valued partner in space the US as sort of on the learning curve of these sorts of things at the moment I mean just to add on launch you know it's right there one of our top commitments in the national space strategy partly because it offers you know reliable agile access to space from the UK that's our goal it's also of course a huge commercial opportunity and you know hopefully we'll stimulate a new part of the space sector so I mean I think they're working really closely with the MOD on the possibilities that the UK launch capabilities would offer and making sure that we maximize that sort of part of the growth of the UK space sector it's a great synergy do you mind if I just add on so as we did the initial work on what has become the Astari program and the minister alluded to this a little bit earlier whilst we've profiled the program over a decade the reality is five years from now we're not we're not quite sure what that's going to look like we haven't defined it because we don't quite know what the technology is going to be what we've put in place is an agile foundation that allows us to spiral as we see new technology come online so you know the reality is what we don't want to do is invest in a piece of capability if we're using an analogy like Nokia 3210 send it into space and then we're kind of stuck with plain snakes forever and we want to get an iPhone up there with the right iOS you heard us talk about Prometheus looking at software defined radios so that when it's on orbit we can reprogram it from Earth it's very agile we can get the next new app into the capability that didn't that app didn't exist six months ago so it allows us to just keep that one piece ahead of where the technology is and importantly where potential adversaries will be all of our programs are built on that agile foundation and what God is us doing with space commander as the chief mentioned this rapid capabilities approach to how we develop that is quite a new approach for high defense will do acquisition but it's definitely required so we have a question from the from the floor and I would like to picture you before anything Julia hi Julia just as you're talking about responsibility earlier I noticed the DSS notes that it will embed dual use at the heart of the capability process for the best value of money this can blur lines of responsive behavior and skew that perceptions could you elaborate on how the promotion of responsible uses of space could be supported alongside these dual use ambitions I should say Julia is our space phd students no pressure so I'm happy to have a go at it and then I'm sure everyone will have a view so it's interesting because we had this discussion with the minister last night about dual use and I and I'm going to steal his comeback since he's not here to use it himself but this idea that for as long as we've had telephones that've been dual use we use them for civilian use we use them for military use it's an analog telephone system and we've never batted an eye over the fact that we do that dual use so that we should just be pulling that through to what we do with satellites and my ISR satellite is DEFRA's earth observation satellite we're using a sensor to look for nefarious activity in a certain country DEFRA is using it to check out coastal erosion in Norfolk and we should have that much more sophisticated approach to the use of our assets because the reality is we don't have and we'll never have the budget to build each different department having their own satellite constellation so this idea of a national approach and Rebecca and I have talked about this for well over a year of we wrote a national space strategy and we're going to deliver it in a national way and the dual use approaches right at the heart of that Rebecca you want to Yeah it absolutely is I think this could be the sort of game changer and how we think about what we use space for and how we actually procure in the future I suppose is the real goal how we think about how we procure how we commission how we use our assets in space for dual use purposes and you know that that's a sort of possibly a goal for future but we need to start thinking about it now and we are doing that every day in how we start to take forward those goals set out in the space strategy so all of strategy all of the ambitions are being thought about in an integrated way whether that's earth observation whether that's space domain awareness whether that's launch etc so I think that you know that is what could get the UK really ahead in how we think about space and just in terms of delivery of that you know mentioned the four of us sort of working closely together and all bait the CEO of the UK space agency we speak an awful lot of the time about how we do this and about how they are transforming into a delivery organization that we'll be able to enable that in the future and actually we two weeks time we've got a board to board with the UK space agency UK space command to talk about exactly this the dual use and how do we combine our research development how do we combine our procurement procedures how do we come on control these things when you've got that dual use aspect of what's going on if definitely want to use it at a particular time the defence might want to use it I think those are the difficult things when it comes to trying to get at this but it's not impossible and so I think starting at the beginning exactly as we are now and we're fortunate Paul's come along at the same time as me so we've been on the journey together that will allow us really to get into this Could I just add one more point and I think that is just fantastic to see space agencies space command really sort of knitting together their thinking and Harve and I have recently launched something called a national space board which does exactly the same thing at the sort of cross-white or departmental level and brings together our decision making and our thinking about how we use space going forward so that board makes sure that dual use is being locked into our thinking as we develop new policy and new programs to deliver that policy Just final observation from a from a behaviours point of view because you were I think alluding to the UN and norms and behaviours process and I think one of the one of the goals of that process really is to try and avoid miscalculation by having this kind of commonly agreed baseline of what is acceptable behaviour and I think in respect to whether that's a dual use capability or a military capability those that conversation is important in order to establish what normal looks like regardless of the nature of the satellite I think it comes back to sorry that attribution in the end ultimately because one person's every removal satellite is another person's military satellite removal satellite and so understanding exactly what's going on out there and the other attribute I think is key when it comes to that Yeah This seems to be a very big question mark over the future resilience if this turns into a contested space yes we'll be able to do things space in the other term In the document you state we will also support scientific collaboration research development and further enhance our engagement with academia I guess from that comes the question what do you see as the role for academia in in the next stages and I suppose how well how what is the state as you see it of of UK academia for supporting your ambitions Can I just one thing we haven't talked about is in the in the upskill and cohere side of things when on the journey to a you know looking at a space academy you know we're working with a number of academic institutions because what I don't want to do is from a defense perspective just put together learning in a stove pipe actually it has to be across all of the different elements and you know I see some nodding going on around in the room and certainly the discussions that we've had you know I think people are looking to come and collaborate in this side of things so you know certainly we are at the moment finding where the dots are in order for us to join the dots and our from a UK space command perspective our training needs analysis comes is will be published to us in a couple of months time but it will not be the pure defense side of it right from the beginning we're looking at wider academia and industry as well so we're you know we'll look for the sort of center of excellence when it comes to learning and as it says you know building the workforce for the future I think the whole question of partnership is a huge challenge when you're really trying to get very diverse organizations to work more closely together and perhaps they've done in other areas yeah so I think we've done a Rebecca tell me otherwise I think we've done a pretty good job of trying to integrate our space academia into the journey we've been on thus far I know we've run various roundtables I'm looking at a new here is catching his eye to see if I'm telling the truth to just make sure that our thinking was right as we did the analysis for the national strategy and certainly for the defense strategy we did some quite interesting early engagement with academia I would also just link to Fassi and I know we've spoken about this a few times the work that that you guys are doing in particular with PhD students coming through there's a real opportunity there for us to use their work to try to inform our early thinking which then we would bring back into our engagement with industry in the broader sector it comes back to my point earlier about it's a national strategy and it'll be delivered in a national way and there's a very clear section of the national space strategy which is about skills in academia we talk about it as the UK space enterprise role there for academia for sure Rebecca yeah well I'm sure if our science minister Minister Freeman were here he would want to talk about the importance of science behind you know innovation and keeping our space sector at the cutting edge you know he would say I think that the government is going to invest record levels of money into research and development and you know that the key to maximizing this for the space sector is about making links with the other sectors that we need to work closely with going forward and so I think you know it's a very good news story actually that we are putting science and academia right at the heart of our thinking here and using you know the amazing science and talent base that we've got in the UK to really really drive forward that thinking and that innovation that will you know give us the competitive advantage Thanks David I've got one one more question from the online perhaps yes sir from Catherine Courtney he'll be able to turn to the panel so you should like to ask whether or ask the panel to share their views on the criticality of space domain awareness to assuring national security and prosperity do they see this as a capability area where the UK can in 30 comments punch above all weight I'll take that one you know as so as commander UK's space command from day one it is that's my number one priority and it comes back to that attribution point that I talked about I do I genuinely do think we can punch above our weight just because of the calibre of people that we do have looking at the information that comes into our space operations centre just two years ago by the end of 2020 we established a commercial integration cell in there so it is bringing in you know an awful lot of people in the room and actually I think Aurora was mentioned in the in the speeches and that's a software and I think the minister mentioned it that you know is an iOS if you like that brings together what is currently 15 different systems and so from my perspective and you'll see when you look at the figures in there 85 million on space to main awareness if you were doing it in numbers that wouldn't be a priority but actually it's because I think we've got some really quick wins in there the data is all there it's just about combining it and enabling a picture for the commander to be able to present to senior commanders when it comes to that attribution and what's actually going on out there so you know I'm really excited about this and certainly even in the US last week the command space operations forum just before Christmas there's a real excitement about sharing data sharing and the ability to do that amongst the other partners and nations is not easy because the classification levels and so on but I think there's a real want to be able to do this and a priority to be able to do it right now yeah so Catherine I've spoken about this multiple times so Goddess has covered off SDA I think there's a couple of extra bits to it it's the comment that Natalie brought out earlier and SDA is almost meaningless unless we are referring it to a baseline of accepted norms of behavior so that piece of work that we're doing in support of FCDO into the UN is critical to this so that we can hold people to account on how they act and how do their business in space to maintain this idea of a safe secure and sustainable domain as we go forward I think there's another bit to this which is this idea of what would a future space traffic management look like that's been a discussion that's quite live at the moment maybe slightly broader than what we're trying to achieve with SDA in the defence area but if you think you know we're upwards of 8,000 odd satellites on orbit at the moment the last ESA a modelling suggested over 140 million pieces of space debris if you look at the different licensing applications from some of the big companies that are right there at the moment the next decade will see tens of thousands of small satellites go into Leo so space is only getting busier and that's going to make our life more difficult when we're trying to look up through that and see what might be potential nefarious activity in amongst all of the debris and the new satellites and all of the ambition so managing the traffic and in many ways in a similar way that we manage traffic in the air domain 100 years ago if you had had a discussion you're better based on with this David than I am but if you'd had a discussion with the man in the street about jets of 300 people on them landing at 90 seconds intervals on two runways on an airport that's just outside London they wouldn't have believed you but if you go forward 100 years from today and look at the exponential rise in activity in space what's that mean for space traffic management and I'm absolutely convinced that that is also a key area that we we groundly human kind need to get a grip of before there is some sort of major event in space that then forces us to do it and just very last thought on that and I agree with everything that's been said there is of course a huge commercial opportunity here as well and you know we point that out in the strategy it's one of those high growth areas actually this needs emphasis for all the good reasons that you've set out but actually as Catherine I've also discussed there is room here for companies to use that data in innovative ways to help solve problems to help and again grow the sort of services the ancillary services part of our space sector so again we talk about synergies that's another sort of great synergy where there's a real burning need to get the space domain awareness right but also there's an opportunity there for our companies in the UK to do it well Well thanks very much indeed we've overrun little bits but not too previously I'd like to invite the the Dean of the Faculty of Social Science and Public Policy Professor Linda McKnight to close proceedings for us thanks very much Thank you very much John So it falls to me to be the person who's standing in between the end of proceedings and our opportunity to network so I'll be brief Great benefit of such an event as this is now our opportunity to talk through the issues that have been raised this afternoon I'd like to thank the Ministry of Defence various government departments the media and the businesses represented in the room for coming along this afternoon to join us at an academic institution Kings College and thank the Freeman Air and Space Institute in particular for hosting the event Now the Minister for Procurement who had to leave us a little bit earlier Jeremy Quinn and Mike Winston Chief of Air Staff thank you for sharing with us the policy Defence Strategy Policy for Space It's alive it's around us it's very much in popular culture at the moment I know many of us will have perhaps engaged with through our children or ourselves the recent film Don't Look Up and those of us who are a little bit older may remember lost in space and warning warning Will Robinson I think that warning Will Robinson you've taken us through all the issues today from climate change through to the potential for global conflict the relationship that we need to develop through science and partnership through education and within Kings of course we have a lot of work ongoing we're so pleased to partner with you and with other academic institutions part of this is about generating our successors those scientists people in the armed forces in government who will take forward the issues so I'd like to end by thanking the many colleagues behind the scenes who've helped make today happen we have catering cleaning security staff and we have many people in the room here who are now going to take us on to the next stage of the event and the networking so please join me in thanking the panel thank you very much for answering the question so eloquently thank you to our colleague for taking the questions through the internet it was great but a special thanks to Mike Wigston and Jeremy Quinn for launching the policy this afternoon thank you