 Thanks for joining us on a brand new episode of 420 grams. Now for those of you who've been watching our shows regularly, how long has it been since we've been coming your way talking Indian football pretty much every week? Sometimes we of course fall off that track and then you don't see us for three, four months because we're lazy people. But then we always come back on track and we always always find something or the other to talk about Indian football. I think I was talking to comrade Siddharth Ani here and he said it's been about three years since we've started the show and I feel after three years we've finally been validated. Now why have we been validated? Cut to the wide cam because you see the gentleman on our left and on Siddharth's right. He is the technical director of the All India Football Federation, Mr Isaac Doru. So thank you so much for taking our time and joining us on our show. Honestly speaking, even if we don't chat about anything today, we feel like we've had a great show, we're validated and now we're more than happy to go for another three years and keep on doing the show. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure and I really appreciate your show. It's a learning process also for me. Thank you sir. So it's been more than close to nine months now? Nine months, 12 days. That's specific. But then how's it going sir? Nine months, 12 days? Professionally speaking is a challenge. Living in India is nice. I like the country, the people, spirituality. And professionally speaking is a challenge because we have a lot of things to do. The system is very complex. The country is very big. But I'm very happy that I took that challenge and hopefully I can be successful. So then sir, moving forward, first things first. You've got a huge platter in front of you to work on. What is the one thing that you'd say requires your attention the most? Moving ahead in the short term at least. Yes, thank you for your question. Before yesterday I got a meeting with the same guys from FIFA. They put the same questions. And now are you working for them or are you working for them? Sure, the development of football in India has some priorities. Every individual that is working at different stages, they see the priorities, they analyze the priorities differently. Personally, I have three priorities. First is the competition, increasing the quality of the competition in the youth level and professional level. The kind of competition we are working now to see the possibilities, how we can make the league longer, how we can have a league of every age from 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18. Because in the structure that we have now, for example, we have a player that is born in 2005, but he will have a league after two years. And we need to have that kind of, you know, the synergy between the ages that is competition. Second is coaching education. And two of them are very related because without competitions, the coaches, they cannot develop. A coach is someone who's coaching and the game and training and coaching the game. That if you have five games in a year, it's very difficult to be a very good coach. And third priority, and this is for me, I don't want to say it's the third one, but I really like it and I put a lot of energy, we call the grassroots, the golden age and the 12th. Now with this baby leagues, with children leagues, with this grassroots development project are the three priorities, the main priorities for me as a technical side. And this I'm assuming applies to both boys and girls, men and women across. Right, right, right. It's especially in the grassroots, we don't do a discrimination, we want to play together. Yes, boys, girls play, have the game, had fun and I saw a few games as a mix, really, really, really, really surprised by the talent of the girls. And this is organic talent. I call every time and telling, this is the liquid gold. How is this liquid gold create a beautiful jewelry with the coaching, with the competitions, that is our job. In a sense, whenever you talk about Indian football, this has been the story that there is a lot of liquid gold in this country. But then as soon as that liquid gold gets into the structure of the country, you tend to lose that, you tend to lose the sheen of that gold. And in a sense, you suppose that is the bigger challenge to fix the structure. Because you're talking about grassroot level football, under 12, under 13, they're possibly playing, I think, about 14 games in a season. And less. Less than that as well. They're playing less. Less than that. They're successful in 14. And they want to create a platform or minimum they can have 40, 50, because you're progressing the game. The game is producing enthusiasm, energy, progressing, investor, fun, love, passion and intelligence of the game. So, but then how do you do that? Because there is one way of saying from the Federation's point of view, we were saying, I want a team to play 30, 40 games. But then there is the other side of it, which is the person who's putting the money into that club, who's trying to get the kids together for 30, 40 games, as opposed to 10 games, his expenses go up. He says, what do I gain from this? And so on. Yes, I think the people now that are putting the money in the game, especially for youth, they are smart enough. And they said, okay, I put that kind of money for 10 games, and in the end, I get nothing. Or I invest, let them develop them with up to us to explain the development process. And I think the state associations play a huge role because they need, we try now to decentralize a little bit, you know, the games to go to the state association, that the kids, they need to have games, 20, 30 games on the state level, and then on the national level organized by IFFM, 10, 12 games in total, we give a platform of 40 games, that is good. So, how is that relationship developing between you sitting at the center and the units at the federal level to the states? How is the response? Now, we have been talking about the priorities in the technical side. At the administration side, it's very related with the development of football in India. We have been creating state development section inside of technical department. And we have a group of staff who's going now to the every state associations when we try to design a development program for them and leagues for them. The problem that we are facing is not a secret because we work together here with honestly, and we need to share the reality is that the state associations, they are the people that are working in the honorary jobs, they don't have time, they're not a professional organization. And in some extent, they do a fantastic job because they give up the time for the family to go to organized league in the weekends to work, and you know, two, three persons, what they can do in the population that is 50 millions. And with time, I hope that all the state associations will get professional organizations and they can organize properly the football there. But you reckon there's still time for that because this is such a huge country. So if I can just ask a quick follow up on this, because I know that there was a program where FIFA was giving some money to the state associations to appoint a marketing person. Yes, we call the development. We got some funds for FIFA that we finish now in June. We got 11 development officers, 11 states. Yes, they tried there, they organized the leagues, golden baby leagues, coaching education program, schedule for them, leagues, competition. And we have seen some progress, you know, some states becoming very active is the work of those gentlemen. And now the problem that I'm facing is, okay, FIFA is not going to support us. Oh, is that is that when your recent meetings with FIFA? Yeah, you know, we are begging with this project, but it's not in FIFA also. Yes, but we try to help you. But what you do as a country to help yourself. True. That's fine. And that makes sense also. FIFA, you know, should not help only India. Other countries as well, you know. And other countries where sort of the Federation is not backed by a, you know, because here we have now a very, very wealthy sort of cooperation that is a commercial partner for the AFF. So surely there are some resources that can be brought in from there. Yes, but I think with the state associations, they can do it. And now we are working. First, we need to screen the reality in every states. How many fields we have? How many registered players? How many coaches exist there? A, B, C. And we are in the stage now of screening the reality. And just today, two hours ago, I got the email from another two states, we have 12 states that are screened. We know exactly what we have. And based on that, we try to build up a plan accordingly to see financially how we can maybe the local government that can support to create a proper professional structure that can run the football in that state because football is not a game. It's a social event. It's an education process. It's a social communication as well. So you reckon, since you brought that up right now, you reckon that's an area of the game in this country at least. If you talk about the larger scheme of things, that is missing, the social side of it. Because if you talk about big footballing countries all over the world, there is always a social angle. There's a class angle, there's a working angle. And that connect brings you to the game. As such, you have Calcutta, you have a bit of Kerala, you have a bit of Goa and Northeast, of course. But beyond that, you reckon that is the challenge because if you really want honest football fans, rather than saying, I want this guy's jersey, but you want someone to be connected with the game from the head on, from the beginning, that is an area you need to really approach and yes, it's a very good observation. And participating a lot of international conferences representing India and all the other directors say, you are lucky man, 1.3 billion people. Yes, I'm lucky. But from 1.3 billion, only 600 million are involved in something in football. There are states we don't have only one academy. And this mass development of football in the country, I'm sure we get some extent, but not only the federation could participate in that action. I mean, maybe AFC, FIFA and the local government and the central government. Because as we mentioned, bringing the people together in the stadium, having that kind of vibration of the young kids learn from football, different value that they can use in life, leadership, creativity, intelligence, mental toughness, never give up in difficult situations. We are part of the development of human beings. And we need to work together with all the vectors of education in the country. So just moving on now, of course, from the youth side and moving on to the senior side, in particular, if I may ask you, and we were having a lovely conversation off camera, where you were specifying that you need to have that one. And I still remember this from your press conference. And probably because of your accent, it stayed with me. You said, synchronize the style of play. And the synchronized style of play, what would that be for you? Having spent nine months now in this country, looked at the players. Every age nation have a playing philosophy, a way that we play and a way that the fans love the national team to play. All the fans in the world, they want to win. Yeah, yes, pretty obvious. Yeah. And, but there are countries, they want to win in a different fashion. I cannot see Spain with long ball kick and run. Yeah. They will try like this. Even they will win. They will get bullied by the fans. They don't love that, you know, it's based on possession, you know, and dominant play, being in control of the game. And now we are in the faces in India with all the other technical directors from the club, from the youth development of the head to create a playing philosophy, at least to identify some value, how you want to play the game. And after nine months that you mentioned, in the beginning, I said, how I can see that, you know, for me synchronized that word, I choose this very careful. Because, you know, in the game, we have two big moments, defense and attack, right? And of course, transition, but those two moments, we need to create a synchronization in attack and in defense between 11 players. And in attack, we have synchronized 11 players. Doesn't mean that only the three players are attackers. Nowadays, you can see the wind backs, you know, if you build that, the goalkeeper, when he has the ball, he's the first attacker. Yes. We have players synchronizing attack, synchronizing defense. It means if I have the striker number nine, but without the ball, you are a defender. Yeah. Doesn't mean that if you sometimes go to first line of the country. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And then how you synchronize between these two moments of the game. I guess that is the transition. Yes. The transition. Yes. And both ways. Yes. Yes. Not just transition from defense to attack, but also from back again. Yes. We call, you know, in the moment that we lose the ball and the moment that we regain the ball. Yes. And what I insist for you guys, I said synchronized in India, we can do it. I really believe that Indian players, when they come in the group, they respect the value of the group. I haven't seen in a superstar, you know, this mentality. And more than that, I pick up that word and the concept from the dance. You know, the best dancer in the world, you are that. And not in my view, I'm not especially easy dancer. Our vibes wouldn't agree, sir. They'll probably think otherwise. Our vibes. No, not us guys. Maybe not us guys. I wanted to have some layer lesson from you. You know, last week, we got in America, American get Thailand, the yeah, the champions by not following, but my wife, you know, she called me. Oh, we won. We won. What we want, you know, just the Parisa German lost, you know, to one. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, we won. And that's what, you know, the dance, a group of dance from India, from Mumbai. Yeah. From a flam. Yeah. With the dance is synchronization of every each player, every each movement, every each second, every each pounds, every each space, the best in the world. Yeah. And if we have this mentality, if we apply to football, and everyone needs to respect and understand the role that is, you know, synchronized football. So then so the follow up would be this that after nine months, and probably I'm a little too early in asking you this question, because to develop a style of play takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. But from whatever you've seen of the quality of player that you have in front of you, what would be the right style of play for the Indian national team provided they're playing in the Asian Cup on a regular basis? Yes. First, you know, I don't want to correct you. I think not only the national team, because the national team cannot play a style what is different of the leagues, the Super League or I League that play in the national level. I think the playing playing style or playing philosophy or game model of our football in India, that would be loved and appreciated by every but everyone need to be based on possession. And more than that, what is that to be dominant? Because when you have the ball, you are dominant, you are in control of your destiny, right? Then we need to be very dynamic and in India, people are you are all is a dynamic society, a dynamic human beings, you see what's in the street, you see the people and everything is dynamic. There's constant movement, people are always... Without movement, it's a dynamic. I've been in a lot of countries, but I'm feeling here real dynamic. And coming to the game, what's that mean being dynamic? Let's say, I give one criteria in 90 minutes, I've been going in Spain, in Italy, Japan, Premier League, they have actions game over 190 minutes, right? And the people that are interested in their dynamic. Now in our game, in the national level, if we have 20, 28 actions in 90 minutes, there is not a dynamic game. And the funds, they are not going to love that. They are not going to appreciate that. Maybe they will come once for the game, because marketing, because friends, but they will not come again and again, watch the team. And we need to create that playing style as mentioned. And I think some value need to be dominant based on possession, then to be dynamic, to be very fast. When you say fast, it's not only the running fast. Thinking. Speed of thinking. Speed of changing direction. Change of tempo. Fast, slow, fast, right? Accelerate, decelerate, accelerate. Also, I suppose, when to go? Yes, and playing, also fast will be the playing, speed of playing, I explained to you. The time split between the first touch and the second touch. And modern football, the one that goes more in details. In average, in Europe, the player keeps the ball 2.2 seconds in average. Between first and second? No, no, no. In total. 2.2 seconds. 90 minutes, 60, 80 seconds. But in this 2.2 seconds, this is an eternity. Yeah. And then from the first touch to second touch, it's less than one second or one. Yes. Or it should be. Yes. Because then, you know, it's the flow. Yeah. And we are used with that kind of speed of playing. The fans, they are used to see that kind of speed. Otherwise, they don't come and watch it. And if not, we are in the phase now that we call, you know, mobile playing, you know, I receive the ball, I give up. After you receive the ball, maybe you go for the coffee. Yes. With the black, the sugar. I'm not joking. So we play on Sunday, we have a regular game, fixed group of people, most of the other. We play Six-Aside here in amateur Maradona. So exact same conversation I'm having. You're playing, the guy who's playing centre midfield, he's receiving the ball, he knows he's going to receive the ball, the ball is coming to him. Still, he waits for the ball to come, traps it, then looks up and thinks about what he's going to do. Then he tries to do it. By that time, three people are on him. And that's the end of the story, you know. That's more the football change in the body. If we have that kind, let's say, the criteria, the way that we want to play fast between the first and second. If all these 11 players, we have the same synchronised idea. I know that you are going to release the ball fast. I'm going in the space. In the space. Yes. And you know, with this, sometimes I'm watching the Super League, the league there, fantastic play. It's one touch to that. But five foreigners as well. I mean, that's my point. Yeah, but even those five, they are not super players. Five or whatever it is, you know. But we need to create that kind of awareness. It doesn't mean that, okay, let's play, start to play fast in India because Isaac wants you to play, but it's the way that people love. And especially football is a show, is a passion, is life. And being in Brazil is a life. Being there, you know, many times. And it's a life in Europe. It's a life. It's our, you know, social cake, social, you know, sweets in games. We are, if we have a game after three days, we cannot sleep. We cannot wait to go for the game. And in India also, I was surprised, especially in the I League games, we go 60,000 people, yes, in the game. That also because the stadium is now smaller. If the stadium was bigger, there would be 100,000 people. Yeah, then the Muhambagan would be happy. Yeah. And you know what's in the host of people, you know, what we are there in stadium or 20,000. And one Indian player have none and a half of a league. I don't want to say name or that because you don't to create jealously. And 20,000 people say, whoa, there's no creating that kind of vibration and entertainment. That's the football. That's the passion. And that we can, you know, survive as a long-term in India. If we create that kind, if we add to our playing philosophy, that kind of playing. You see, also, the other day, okay, let's say we can say Roy Krishna over cake, over he made this bicycle, whoa, even the fans, the other teammate, you know. All this vibration should be, you know, part of the philosophy of playing. So then I hate to be the purveyor of bad news or the purveyor or the man who brings in reality because we're in a country where we're still trying to grow as a nation. My point being, do we really have the luxury of chasing a style of play? Because more often than not, when you're chasing a style of play, it is also conflicting with results. It happens world over, sir. So as a country, do you suppose we have that luxury? Because we're still trying to maintain a foothold in Asia, trying to qualify regularly for the Asian Cup, and more often than not, when we're playing teams stronger than us, we might have to adopt Route 1 football, bang on the counter, sit back, which might not be the most pleasurable thing for a fan to watch. And thus, you know. I think you will be an excellent president of the club, you know. Of course, in the professional world, there are results. If I lose a game, I cannot sleep before the game, you know, exciting, because everything is related to the results. Playing philosophy, it's helping in which terms to create a game model and a use development. We want our youngest, I want you, son, a congratulation for having many babies as well. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Daughter. Daughter. Yes, we want you, daughter, or you, son, to play a game that they can be a happy self-expression. Yes. And we need to create for them and use development concept to develop, that we call development, but to develop towards what? We need to give, you know, them an objective. That's the way that we play. And playing philosophy is more, you know, related to the development of football as a long term. At the short term, we want to win. I'm agreeing with you. You stay in defense. Yes, there are 90 minutes. We have one counter and we win. And maybe you can win that game. But if we play 10 times, I guarantee you scientifically prove or not prove that you're not able to be a winning team. Yeah. Sometimes we are lucky. We can win the game in defense. We can go half of the court twice in the 90 minutes. We can win. Yeah. Good congratulations. But if we played 10 times against the same opposition, we are going to lose eight times. And then we want to prepare a team as a nation. We want to have a winning mentality. I prepare you to be able to win from 10 games that we play with them, six or seven to be dominant. And that we need to find the resources, you know, to develop, to add value to our player, to physicality, to speed of play, to explosive power and technical things, technical skills that could be able to win every game that they are underfilled in the battle. So then, sir, would you? Sorry, just not, I mean, I don't want to. Yeah, usually bouncing off. Yeah. So Dennis Burkamp's book is called Stillness and Speed. I love that play, sir. Favorite play. But just the name of the book, Stillness and Speed at the same time. So fluidity, speed, like dynamism, all of that. But also patience and like stirta, like, you know, so what are you saying about the luxury of time? Do we have the luxury of time? I absolutely think that we do. And there's no other way to develop all of these things other than to take the time. I'll tell you why. Because India, sir, I mean, we want to, because of technology, because of global best practices, because of FIFA's interest in developing India as a strong partner country, we have skipped 30, 40 years in our natural evolution of the game, just as in other parts of society also. We went from a country where a large number of people were illiterate to suddenly the largest number of mobile phone users in the world, or subscribers. So on day one, you have zero information. And on day, overnight, literally, you have all the information in the world in your hand. Right. So we have to, as an overall society, and football is a part of that, I think, come to terms with how fast things are developing and find our own way in that, man. And that will take time. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I think both of you are right. We need to have a long term and a short term. What you say is a short term. There is no long term without short term. As a short term, we have people that put in the money in the market, investors, you play not a good game. Okay. For the time being, we don't have a relegation system, but in the moment that you have the relegation system, the winning, and that's the, especially as a professional, the short term. Yes, we need to win, prepare your team to win, do everything to win, whatever it's, you're playing philosophy, stay in defense there, just pump the ball on the kick and run, it's up to you if you want to win, you know, you do it. But as a long term, the common sense is showing us in football, that you cannot win, you play 10 games, staying only in defense, you are not going to go to the World Cup. Because there is another team also, it's not only about what you do, I guess. That we need to create something and the short term to the development of the game, that we call football development and development of football. But I'm really agreeing with you at the short term, if there is not successful development of the game. So then sir, would I be right in saying your vision, your long term vision for it to actually be succeed, and for it to show as far as results and to coincide with results, would that be a minimum of 10 years? A minimum of 10 years and we can't expect that from this current national team. Because for them, the time has gone to play that kind of football. But the current national team is quite young. Not that young as well. You know what, I'm really expecting for the older national teams, especially the senior men and women, whatever is the philosophy of playing, playing style and the tactical approach individual group team designed by the coach want to win. Dirty win I will accept. Dirty is better. Dirty win I will accept. Maybe in my heart I will cry a little bit, I will accept. Yeah, but it showcases this thing. Yes, yes, I will accept, right? But in the long term, and I don't want to escape my responsibilities because I'm not looking at to spend 10 years here in India to say, ah, long term, long term, I want to be successful, you know, and it's possible. It's a little bit of lack. Remember our game first game against Qatar. Yes, the national team of Qatar. Yeah, being the coaching Qatar, I got, I know them very well. And in that game, we have been very lucky. Yeah, agree or not? Of course, we can have three games, three points in one point, but we've been lucky and the players, the staff, all the tactical strategy, okay, we have been lucky. But who guarantee us that we can be lucky every time? Every time. When they come back here? Every time, yeah. Or no, with what's happened with Bangladesh. Yeah. Suddenly we had to switch times. But Bangladesh, we were lucky again. We were lucky again, Bangladesh, because that could have been zero points. I think, you know, that's my philosophy as well. As a human being, as a coach, I won the destiny in my hands. Yes, the destiny of our team should stay in our hands, not only in the luck. If the luck is helping, it's not only in the hands of God, in the legs, in the brain of every player, and the 11 players with the staff, when we go there and we are fighting, you know, fighting every second, we go with the fighting spirit, we know our humble and fighting, everything is possible. I think if you, I mean, this point just quickly, that winning, losing to me, of course, because you are there in that seat and it's important for, it's one of the criteria by which your job is measured. So for you, of course, the results matter. For us as fans, to me at least, it doesn't matter. I mean, how we lose is also important. What you're saying about fighting and all of that stuff. Yes. The result is not the most important thing. It's what you do in those 90 minutes. That I appreciate in India, you know, the fans, you guys, because you have this holy kind of spirit and to say, yeah, we fight, we do everything and we are losing. Yeah. Yes. For me, I think you appreciate the times when we fight, okay, if we do that. Yes. The time when we are critical of the team is only when we feel that the team has not done that. Yes. But you will see in 10 years, football environment in India is going to change because you will have relegations. Yes, sir. You have promotions and you are losing one game. You can go second division, you're losing, you know, 20 million bucks. Yeah. And then you say, we go there, whatever it is, dirty win, whatever, you know, to have a good results. It's center, you know, the results. But in the same time, is that kind of generosity for the fans, you know, to say, yeah, they try, they do a very good, you know, that it's, I think it's one of the most valuable things that I appreciate to the fans. So then so in the short term, and I'm taking this conversation, this is the last question on this conversation, so we can move forward in the short term, but the team that we have right now, would you reckon the best suited style of play for the players that we have currently is, win the ball, quick passes, transition, make your forehand to goal and come back and organise. Is that the best way for you? Yes, I think, you know, now Igor, yes, he's trying to do and I really, really appreciate his courage. We have done now a transition for a previous playing style or game that in some ways has been successful. Yeah, right. Yes, sir. And we switched to another playing style. Is for good, is for bad. We know as a technicians that is for good, because you cannot win, again, be competitive and win an international standard games only staying in defense and bomb long pass. You cannot, you know, okay, there's a quality of the player also takes into account. Can they give you what you're looking for? Yes, you know, the players, they have skills. It's how we apply the skills. Okay. Example, we have Sunil Chetri, right? Yeah. Give him a long ball, ball in the air and being one against four. We are going to not use his skills. Yeah. Right. And for that, he's very successful now with Bengalo, he's scoring goals, the crossing, this possession, the space, taking the ball, you know, and as much as we can produce football, we can progress. And I appreciate Igor because he tries, okay, let's, you know, be dominant in the game. Let's have the possession of the game. Let's have a good mobility of the ball, movement of the ball, fast the ball, create space and finishing fast. Of course, we are not successful on that because the league itself is not consistent. Yeah. But that's the way that we we believe, I believe, make us successful in the future as a winning nation, not only ambition to participate or no, no, no, you know, we will have FC Goa in the Champions League. Yes. Yes. We need there to go to win, not just to be happy. Yeah, we have been there, you know, and then I'm sure in the way that we play, they will try, they'll be successful there with a modern game playing style. Fair enough. Yeah. I just want to ask, since we all, we met at this launch event for the Under 17 Women's World Cup, that's going to happen in India in a few months time. Since you are the technical director of all of India's national, not just the national team, but all of Indian football, you're the right, I suppose we could ask you questions, we should ask you questions about everything. Please go ahead. But I don't know if we have six hours. So the Under 17 Women's team, how is that shaping up? What kind of talent pool does India have? Because none of us really know much about, it's a small pool at the moment. And it's a pool that you are trying to develop. So just tell us a little bit about the team. Would you agree that these are extraordinary circumstances under which a team for a World Cup is being prepared, as opposed to what happens in world football? You developed a camp of 40, 50 players, then you're choosing the best players for a World Cup. So you're already going against the dream. Same as it was for the boys. It was an unnatural environment to be very honest. But now with the help of the government, we try to create all over the country, we have now in 11 countries, in 11 states, a league for the girls. Under 17 for the leagues, they can play more games and we'll pick up also the best player from the leagues. But all the members that are now is the national team. Previously, they have been with the 15, you know, is the SAF champion. They have some kind of experience. We bring a new technical staff, experience, professionals, specific staff, academic, very good. And they will try to maximize all the results from that group. Of course, if we compare with all the other nations in Asia, is Korea's four times World Champion 17, or is Japan? Japan World Champion. We cannot compare. And we can see some slight progress with the evolution of our team. By the way, yesterday they won against my mother country, 0. And there are some progress there. But we need to accept who we are. And when we go there in the 90 minutes, as you mentioned, every player, we should not have the head down. We know who we are. We know our strength points, weakness points. We know that we don't have a lot of games. But when we go there in the field, I want to transform this field in a battlefield. At least after the game, whatever will be the results, everyone said our boys and girls fight battle for it. And that will make me proud. When we go, we know with respect to our opponent, they are better than this and that and that. I think we are losing 20% of our confidence. Go there, fight. And we see if the opponent, they are far better, or surely are going to win. But at least we respect the spirit of the game. We give them a good fight. Fair enough. And I think the ingredients are here with our girls. I saw some talented ones. I've seen also the national teams, women's. We got good talent in the final of the IWM. Amazing player. You saw the Nepalese players, the striker for Gokulam, for Nepal. Yes, Samba. They know her. They look like a solid player. But we have somebody else that I really like the more. I won't ask you the name. No, it's okay. But I appreciate the skill is great. And I think more players, they will follow the steps of Bala to go abroad. Because the skill is there. The gap also is much lesser in women's football, as far as when you compare with the world, as opposed to the men's games. Because the tradition, the games, the development of the games for women is different in an average country. I think personally, I really believe that in women's, we have the talent, we have the ingredients to be one of the leading nations in Asia. You know, that kind of, we call coordination movement, the commotor movement, reaction movement. Naturally, we haven't here. Example, in Japan, I was working in Japan, we need, what in United States, we need to teach, we need to spend time, precious time of our training session to work on the coordination. And I see a seven years old or a 10 years old or 11 years of the girl coordinated by nature. Because you know, barefoot, working, doing activities, dynamics. And I think we have the talent, but the talent without work, without very hard work, without a concept is, as you mentioned, a liquid gold that is going somewhere. It's being lost. So just before we end this, this is one hot topic that's been going on in Indian football for a while. A, it's on the structure of the league, which is now finally we're seeing relegation promotion will be implemented in a couple of years. If I were to ask you, and you know, you've seen the structure, you've seen the clubs that have money, you've seen clubs that don't have money. And when you want to put them all together, it could also cause a problem because then you might have someone who's not able to compete with someone with the kind of financial muscle the other clubs would bring. What for you would be the ideal structure for a league, top league? And how many teams would you want to see in it in total? Okay, I will start with the, it's my personal, I never discuss with anyone about it. And also nobody asks me what I'm really thinking you are the first person. And you and probably my wife also. You know, I think at this scale, at the short term in the next 10 years, we need to have 18, 20 teams. By 10 years, we need to have 20 for the main league. Okay. Religations or playoff, play on system. Then second divisions and third division. Yeah. Depending on how financially the country will go, maybe the third division will be at the state level. Yeah. Or the second division will be by region or regions, same as US, Western Conference, Eastern Conference, something like that. But now I see the 20, 18, 20 teams. 18, 20 teams. But do you reckon with, I mean, how does that happen? Because A, you've got someone here who's spending 30 CR. That you got someone who's probably spending three CR. Yes. This could be an organization or professional league, you know, there are licensed licensing criteria. You're going to Premier League, you cannot compare Manchester City budget with Leicester or yes, with Everton. Always there will be financial imbalances all over the world that exists. But doesn't mean that financially a victim cannot win against a strong team. It's in the ways, again, the intelligence, the staff, how you build the academies also, and how you do the scouting of the players, the coaches. What's happened a few years back with Leicester, who was supposed to be there. But those imbalances, they will be there. And that is a romance of the sport as well. Yes. We talked about Leicester, but what happens in the iLeague every year, you know, a small club from IZOL, from Punjab, from wherever comes in and beats the Mohan Baghans and the East Bengals that have all the relatively, right? It's comparative. You know, now the environment in India is in the face of getting both. If you accept my word is four months pregnant, pregnant woman, you know. We don't know if there will be a baby, will be a girl, vomiting, a headache, but we are evolving. We have a roadmap. Good, not good, could be better. I accept everything, but we have one. And as much as we have one, you know, we know in the time what we'll do. And imbalances financially will be. But the most important thing would be the supporting, the supporters. And I believe that we can have in one city, same as in, because India is very huge, you know, two teams, five teams, look in Madrid. Yeah, you know, if you see Madrid, Atlético Madrid, in real, it's in the history of those two clubs, how they get born, how this evolution. Yeah. Manchester City, Manchester United. And it was by the social development of the people, they choose, for example, the middle class, you know, they go with Atlético de Madrid. Yeah, middle class were by that. Real Madrid, a little bit royalist, this, this, elite, they go. And the funds they choose. Yes. And as much as we create this diversity, the funds they are going to choose. I don't think that it will be some transition from the funds from one club to another club. Definitely. Yeah. Look what's happening now in Super League, we have the youngest generation, crazy about Super League, they're going, watching the game, they look, you know, and those the youngest generation on the Super League, because well-organized, different playing style. And my generations are more than Indian League because they know the history, they know the tradition. And for me, it's quite interesting to see this match of the, between the generations, how it grows the football. And we have the grandeur here, this, the owner of the Super League, the FSDL do a fantastic job. The owners of the iLeaks, they are struggling financially, I know, I talk with them. But we are in the process. As I mentioned, we are like, say, four or five months pregnant woman. And I'm sure that will have a beautiful baby that will be champions once in a year. So final question from my mind, sorry. The raw materials for what you want to develop, yes, are your players. And since you've been so forthright with us on everything, this rule of having five foreigners in the playing 11, how long do you see it lasting? Because then it could start impacting the development of the Indian player, which of course you guys are all here. Yeah, if I will have the power to decide, I will change with due respect to the foreigners. I'm a foreigner in the country as well. And the fans, they want to see a high level of performance, show performance. Yes. But taking in considerations the reality of the country, we got now, you know, 92, 93 accredited academies. They are criteria to accredited. Those criteria are not built in India, but they come from international standard. We have 93 academies. They're playing leagues, have coaches, has concepts, have fields, have balls, have everything. And we have another 500 academies, non-accredited, these very amateur people, our private academy, are playing. There is a massive pool of people that are playing football. And I think that three plus one is the right step. And if you ask me from when, when we start this, from last year. Because they're playing Champions League next season and they have to play three plus one. How do you manage them? Okay, more than that. We know everything. We have done mistakes, I don't know. I do mistakes every day. I do a lot of mistakes in the world because everyone's complaining. But I learned from them my mistakes. And we got the rule of six, four in us, right? And you roast them. Six, only five are playing. Five are playing. Then you bring someone that you are going to kill him mentally because he is not going to play. He doesn't have any opportunity to play, only the injury or the red car. Yes. That rule is for me, tricky. I'm not, because I'm going to kill mentally the foreign players, right? And that's for a second. And I think we have the resources. And I'm very grateful to this Super League and some clubs in the high league. Because especially this season, I've seen a lot of young players. Indian players. Yes. A lot of. You know, when I came out of Super League, old players, 35, 30 years old. Yeah, yeah. And now I see 17, 18, 19 years old. And I would like to say as a father, as a technical person, thank you to the coaches, to the clubs to have that vision. Yeah. And to see that the future of India is okay. Bring the youngest blood there. You create motivation and competitiveness. Yeah. Because the youngest one, they want to, you know, to be there in the game. And you can see how they progress. You say, I don't want to repeat again the name, but I've seen as a jump shot, pull a boy 17 years old on the flag. Playing. Who was expecting that we will have or 18 years old? Or, you know, that competitiveness inside the team, create and develop the players. Look, it's a Farouk or so. They're coming from, you know, there is competitiveness there, you know, and they are playing, they are growing. And for that, I say, for me, it's three plus one is the right way. Yes. The right way. And maybe to develop more, I'll be maybe the second division or a league to be, you know, under 19 or under 21 rules. Two, two players coming in from that. Yes. Well, you know, something to make a rule, but that depends also the owners, how they want to have it. But I think we are there. We are in the process. Yeah. And hopefully we have positive results that can motivate all the players, everyone, stakeholders. Okay, stakeholders. We say the funds, you know, to believe that we can play football in India, because it's not new. You played, you know, 50 years ago, 40 years ago. Yes. You played and was just by accident of history of social development that football going down would not exist. But nowadays, the youngest one, they are playing and the eight and the nine playing. And sometimes, you know, really amazed me because when I'm living behind my apartment is the park. Six o'clock in the morning, play, ball, ball, they make me say, I'm dreaming or what, you know, I'm going out, they're playing. Or at the 10 o'clock or nine o'clock with a little bit that we don't have the, you know, the huge lights, it's more light, they put there and play. That is the passion is there. Make me think about Brazil is the same passion on the players playing, you know, barefoot or you go and beach and Mumbai are playing. That is the passion is there. We need to work together. That might also my little bit of surprise in India because we need to work together. The ego is huge in India, same as in my mother country in Romania. Yeah. It seems like we are brotherhood in between the two countries. The ego is there. Yeah. Too much, too much. And I'm someone that I really like to work in a group, to share, you know, to find the idea together. But this, you know, whatever it is, too much is not good for life. It's not good for progressing. Ego is good way, but too much ego. Not good. It's critical. We need to clean this and bring the people together. Let's play and, you know, and hop and dream. Cool. So I think that brings us to the end of this conversation. We take our cue from those boys because one of them, they slept. They slept. One or two have left, I think. But once again, so grateful and thank you. Thank you for having me and, you know, needless to say that I really appreciate you showing for that decision to come because I know you are part of football development and all your critics that you have it are positive. We need to take it positive because we are same players in, you know, in the football development, you know, we are maybe on the pitch, you are off the pitch and we need to work together and to learn from each other. Team sport, yeah. Absolutely. And we hope you do come again sometime. Whenever. After the baby will get born and a nine months is still perfect to work in that. That will be the perfect end to the story. Yes, thank you. So once again, thank you so much. Thank you. And we hope you enjoyed this episode of 420 grams. As always, when we are talking pure football, we do not take a look at how long the conversation is going. Hope you enjoyed it. Goodbye. Thank you.