 And then I just need to make Shoshana post. There she is. So she's not see. Yeah, my, there's something wrong with my computer. The, the visuals won't work for me. I don't. I can't even get like a picture up there. Sometimes people can put like a picture up there, but. I don't know. I died one day and it never came back. Okay. Hi, Robert. Making you the host. Okay. I didn't see a message. I didn't see anything that looked different to me. I got the notification that you're the host. Okay. So I want to make sure that if I leave, I don't close the meeting out. So if I do just come back. Okay. Have a good meeting, everyone. Thank you. Okay. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the act of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting can do so by clicking on the live link to this zoom meeting. That can be found on the public meetings calendar on the town of Amherst website or by dialing in by phone. If you have any questions, please feel free to comment during the public comment segment of the posted agenda by raising their hands. This meeting will be recorded and will be posted to the town of Amherst YouTube channel. All right. Maureen, are you there? If you're there, raise your hand. Cause I can't tell. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. More people. I only have six. There's two attendees. Wait, Lori says an attendee. Hold on. Promote to panelists. Promote to panelists. All right. It's Lori. Yeah, I think. There must still be some funny business about the E about your email address. I'm guessing it from town hall. Is that what's going on? Or. I don't know. Hi, everyone. Hi, thanks for coming. And so, okay. Any public comment, public comments always first. But like. We. Is there somebody with their hand up? Or is. Or is this from the four when. Oh no, that's my hand. My. Are there any members of the public president except. Not including Maureen. No, there's not. Okay. And let's go immediately to making it public. Since we got Maureen here. And we want to. Make it public. Not make our way around. Yeah, thanks everyone. I emailed off the, the draft copy, the latest version. I gave. I think. I emailed it maybe a lot. Right before Thanksgiving. And then just today. I updated it with just a couple minor. Edits. And if you didn't get a chance to see that, that's fine. I just wanted to get the. I had the men yellow just to point out. And those were based on conversations with. Pamela young, the DEI director. I had language about. About, let's see here. There's a statement about eligibility. some materials from a different community regarding their towns, equal opportunity policy. And that was like a filler. So, Pamela pointed me in the direction of the town of Amherst, equal opportunity policy, which just gets into how, you know, we can't, the town, you know, does not prohibit employment of, because of race, color, religion, gender, gender identity, pregnancy, or pregnancy-related conditions, national origin, ancestry, age, veteran status, disability, economic status, lifestyle, sexual orientation, genetic information, or any other category protected by the state and federal anti-discrimination laws in all aspects of its employment procedures and personnel practices. I guess I'll just read it. Or you all should have a copy in front of you, but this is the exact language that the town of Amherst uses, and I just wanted to provide that. Yeah, that looks great. It was a good addition. Yeah, and then the other update was about who may apply. It's kind of repeating the same information that, you know, if you find on page two of 11 F, who may apply, you know, the project is open to artists or in collaboration, a collaborative team of artists to be considered. And Pamela had suggested just some language that we had a sentence about how the town of Amherst is committed to building a public art collection that represents artists from a broad diversity of race, color, ethnicity, language, immigration, status, gender, gender identity, sexual preference or expression, age, ability, religion and criminal history. And that is a direct cut and paste from the town's DEI office. So we wanted to use language that the town uses and I had borrowed some language from a different town. So we just wanted to be exact. Is this paragraph F? Yes. Well, as the resident lawyer who's in an, I am in attempted retirement, but this doesn't quite work by lifting it because it appears to be addressed to the situation where you're hiring employees, which is not what we're doing might be, it might be used to misconstrue the relationship of the artist to the town also. It's just confusing. So it needs just a little tailoring. I like the philosophy of it. Yeah, thanks James. As I read that aloud, I noticed that mistake as well. So thank you for that. Yeah, that needs to be tweaked. Because so we would want to mimic how we wouldn't want to discriminate in hiring an employee. And similarly, we wouldn't want to be discriminatory in selecting an artist. So it's sort of just a nod of that policy. But I definitely will work with our HR director and procurement officer just to make sure that the language is satisfactory. Well, there's some other things that caught my lawyers. I threw out the document. For one thing, it reads like a contract, but then it talks about there being a different contract. So that becomes a little bit legally intense. Could you point to the specific examples that you have? Yeah, I can. I don't want to set up to find it, but I'm gonna just search for it somewhere. It talks about a contract, but you're definitely gonna need one anyway. And this wouldn't be it, I wouldn't think. Oh, so I know in one of the appendixes, I referenced what is an example contract. Let's see if I can find it. That the awardee would be signing off with the town. And I was gonna provide a generic form that our procurement officer uses. Oh yeah, so like for example, there's a reference in 11D. It says contracting with artists. That's one, then it says this contract amount. So that implies that this is the contract. Let's see, there's another. And then there's another provision there that was lifted that says this contract is exempt. And then below that it says attaches to the town of Amherst contract. So it's, you know, if I ever got to, God forbid the lawyers would have a field day trying to figure that one out. So just a little stuff like that, which I'd be glad to help you with. Oh, thank you. Yeah, thank you for pointing out, I'm making a note to make sure that those. Another issue is that it says that it's for at least four months but we don't know who it is. It decides if it's more than four months. We don't know who it is. It's possible for a moving yard. If there is an accident, we don't know who's liable, who's carrying the insurance. That kind of stuff. Now, a normal human being would not think of all this stuff. I will admit. Yeah. On the other hand, it needs to be in there. If something has a question. Yeah. There's a question. I can't see this screen. Yeah, Robert has a question. Sorry. Well, I didn't want to interrupt that particular questioning and responding. I was just in terms of process, I was trying to think of what would be the most efficient way to go through the document as opposed to kind of jumping all around. So I'm wondering if it makes sense just to start at the beginning and go section by section. And if people have particular comments on those sections, we could work our way through it, perhaps in a more orderly fashion. But if anyone else has ideas too on how to make it the most efficient process, so we use our time well. That makes sense to me. It does to me too, except it doesn't deal with omissions. So we need to worry about that. Yeah, maybe at the end, or if there's an omission related to one of the sections, maybe that would be the appropriate time to raise those as well. Whoever is the host, is that you Shoshana? Could you enable me to share my screen? That'd be helpful. How do I actually do that? I don't know. If you go to your bottom of your screen where it says panelists and click on that, and then if you find my name, you should be able to right click on it and then it might say allow to share a screen. I'm kind of guessing you through this. Yeah, how about I make you co-host? Oh yeah, there you go. Yep, there you go. Thank you. We're working through this together. All right. Are you experiencing all of the benefits of hosting now? Benefits. Yes. Intangible and intangible. The good one. OK, so. Say trigger alert. These are going to be very succinct minutes because I can't possibly go through the contract in a minute at the same time. I will say that our procurement officer and the town manager will be reviewing this very carefully with sort of a lawyer's eye. So but I do I do I love I so there's that. But I also appreciate your comments, Jim. So please proceed or let's start at the beginning. So the first paragraph is the introduction. Robert. Yes. So one minor thing and I defer to people who may be writers in the group, but seems like it should be invites instead of invite to me, the commission invites. But anyway, beyond that, a larger question I had. It's it's mentioned here. Artists with demonstrated experience and throughout the document, there's a lot of weight. And in the rubric given to. And looking through the scoring experience, working with municipalities, experience in executing projects. So I just want to raise the issue. And wondering if if that's going to exclude people from applying who potentially might be very talented artists. And the reason why it's it's fresh on my mind is that I just heard an interview with Maya Lin recently, an MPR, who was the architect who perhaps best known as the designer of the Vietnam War Memorial. And she was 21 years old and an undergraduate when she won that commission. And in fact, she beat out her professor. And so I'm just, you know, as we think about public art and access to opportunity, I'm wondering about the weighting that we're giving to people with experience in this. I mean, I feel like there are safeguards in the selection process that obviously someone who may be brand new to this, who has not experienced with this before, but who's a talented artist. You know, there are other safeguards in the selection process that someone who is not able to see the project through to fruition would probably not ultimately be selected. But I'm wondering if perhaps we're unnecessarily limiting the field by stressing so frequently and giving so much weight to experience in the selection process. What an interesting point. So I had that same response to the emphasis of the demonstrated experience in public artworks prior to the application of this. And for the same reasons that you gave, Robert. And I think that it would discourage some people because it makes it sound as though they should be so-called professional public art artists. And some people are professional public art artists. But this is a different kind of project, it seems to me. There's partly an invitation to join in the spirit of something that doesn't necessarily require you to be a public art professional. So I have a question. What is the goal of saying that the artist needs to be experienced? What are we trying to achieve with that requirement? Well, my assumption is that we're probably lacking some kind of a mentorship, like a person who can help somebody along in this project. And so it makes it easier to not need to have somebody to follow along and help this person with this project. That's my assumption of why we're asking for an experienced artist. But I do agree with Robert that it seems like we really are limiting our pool. And the question is, do we have a resource that we can turn to to help to mentor and help our artists or artists with this project? Or is this the reason why we're putting this in here? Well, I have a question. Is there some requirement that we have the artist resume in here? Isn't there somewhere, I think? There is, yes. Then in that case, why can't the jury figure out that the person is or isn't experienced and use that as a requirement for a selection criteria and not require to eliminate everybody who hasn't got a fat resume? Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, put it into the jury's decision, rather than weeding out now, I guess, like have more applicants and then let the jury weed out what they feel might be. Well, this would be the criteria for reviewing all submissions. Well, my point is that that's a non. There's a less restrictive alternative way of accomplishing the same thing that opens up more possibilities for review. So therefore, I don't see why we put it in at this level. I think it should be in the jury. Yeah, so as you are reviewing resumes, what is the, you know, where would your review be reflected? So these are the findings in a way that you need to find. So, you know, these applicants are going to give you their proposal, their application, their resume, their site plan, their narrative, all these sorts of documents. And then you need to say, why are we receiving these? And what is the criteria in which we are reviewing them? And so, in a way, when you are, so the resume is the document required, and these are the sorts of questions that you need to ask yourself when reading, reviewing the resume, as well as the other documents. So this is kind of just a guidance tool. But I definitely hear what you're saying. And I wonder, you know, I think there is some, there is merit in this. If you if you think if you believe that experience is is sort of a safeguard, would you be open to the idea of lowering the point system for this section? I would add that, you know, the planning department staff has very limited resources in terms of time of me and the other planners are are committed on in several other projects throughout the year. So I don't I can't guarantee that, you know, planners are going to be able to provide such like care in detail in in sort of this is not a collaboration with an artist. This is an artist to provide, you know, a project and design and documentation that it's actually feasible and structurally sound. So it's really up to the applicant and winner of this grant proposal to to to provide. So the town is probably not going to put in a lot of time and effort that that the artist is going to be providing. I think it's more of a handcuff and a hill. Robert, you had something. Yeah, I think I think Terry's hand was up for mine. But my question was only Maureen, is there a way we can put this criteria on the back end, but not in the actual call so that it is more a thing that we do and we don't have to communicate it to the artist up front so that we therefore get a bigger pool of applicants. But it's for our own personal information when we do our judging that this person has more experience. So we'll give that more more points. But then we get to ultimately decide on who the winner of this of this project is. So you know, I mean, you know, I mean, like, can this exist on the back end instead of communicating this information? Yeah, I guess it's a conversation with the procurement officer. I'm sure that we can play around with it that that's agreeable to this board. Yeah, that could not maybe not get into these particular questions, but maybe it's like the, you know, the that they provided a resume and it's to your discretion of what what you find useful, Robert. Yeah, I guess I just following up on what Terry said, I would agree. I mean, that it it hit me right away that, you know, in the second line, it's demonstrated experience with someone reading that if they don't, they're not going to continue reading. So I think it would be preferable to remove that. Although I still question in terms of how many points are being allocated to that particular aspect of the artist. You know, it's 30 percent of the total. And again, I don't, you know, I think there are other ways in to discern whether someone's going to be capable of seeing the project through. And presumably in the interview process, you know, it would be made clear that this is not a it's not a mentoring opportunity. It's it's not that people from the town are going to be sort of shepherding the artist through the process. The expectation is that they're going to be able to do it. I just I just think that relative to some of the other criteria, maybe it's not worth, you know, 30 percent of the points. But still, obviously, an important aspect of the total project consideration. But again, I would definitely advocate for removing it from the introduction, because I do think the way it's worded now, we're going to lose a lot of we're going to lose a lot of people right off the bat. How about if it's I just remove demonstrated and just so the you know, the public art commission invites artists or a group of artists working as a team with experience. I think that's a help, honestly, or in creating. Yeah, I don't know if we even want to specify experience, because again, someone who's who's new may may turn out to be, you know, just starting their career and this could be their first step. So yeah, maybe that that section for the the point system, maybe the numbers could just be reduced, maybe they're like fives or something. So we'll take down in there. They should be there. Dara, that's right. Thank you. Oh, on page four. In number six, CD and E are the three spots where you talk about that experience. And I think that it's relevant to what you all are talking about to look at those right now, because they're very specific. And they ask, does the artist have experience with commission based work? A resume would show you that you'd think in some way or another. Yeah, does the artist have experience with municipalities? That's such a general question that you can interpret it any way you want to. Like, you don't have to have had experience with art projects for public art projects the way that's worded. So it's just working with municipalities. And even in the context, it should be clear, but maybe it's not. You know, and then it says it does it's admitted examples of work showcase robust, relevant experience in executing projects of this nature. And that suggests that we know what the nature of the art is going to be. And and that we know what relevant means. And so it's hard. It's hard. Those questions are hard. It's better to not have those specific questions than to have nothing. I mean, it's kind of dangerous when you're working with artists to give them so much criteria that they feel completely locked out of even having their imaginative vision. So I would I would kind of go for underplaying this, but don't but you can't act like it's underplayed in one place and then have it be important criteria in another place. So it's like we can't have both ways in a way. You know, I would also add that for B also under eligibility. It also says must have. Oh, yeah. I'm demonstrating experience with executing works of art in the public realm. So I mean, I agree. If we're going to, you know, if we're going to be consistent, then we should revise that language. And I also agree that it would be disingenuous to to minimize it in one place, but then give waiting to it in the final selection. So right. OK, so how do you think for B should be edited? What is your how do you suggest changing this? Are you fine with this language or how or could you like to see changes? What would you like to be preferred, preferred experience with executing works of art in the public realm? That's still going to discourage. I mean, Van Gogh went in his first piece of art and I would have loved to have had it. I will say this is this is a you know, in terms of town projects, this is it, you know, ten thousand dollars seems like a lot of money. It's really not. And so we do want to make good use of of this opportunity and and have someone, you know, provide a really great example of temporary art that could turn into a permanent fixture. You know, you could say preferred, but not required. Or what if we had something to the effect of like you must be a self starter and able to work unsupervised or something like that? Well, they are going to be working unsupervised the whole time. Yeah, again, this is not a collaboration with the town. So, you know, the town would really want to find someone that that is a go-getter that has experience, you know, executing and being a project manager for for public art. And I think that's I think that's a reasonable request. Yes, sir. Well, I guess I feel like it's not not having that language in. So if we if we take out any reference to demonstrated experience or experience with municipalities, etc., I don't think that's going to discourage people with that experience from applying. I think the absence of that language will encourage people who may not have that experience. I don't think we really lose anything by not being explicit. And again, in the selection process, all things being considered, you know, if it comes down to two artists, one of whom has all of that and and one of whom, you know, still has a great idea and artistic vision, but may not have that. Then, you know, the decision may be to go with the person who has demonstrated experience. But I think in terms of casting the widest possible net for applicants, my my opinion is is not to have that language because again, I don't think we lose anything. I don't think an experienced artist reading this is going to say, well, I'm not applying because they haven't specified that they want someone with demonstrated experience. But someone reading it who may just be testing the waters and trying something new may be encouraged that not explicitly stated that one has to have a robust resume for examples. Yes, Darren. Well, I agree with that. I think that if you look at a that are artists of all in all caps, backgrounds are encouraged to apply. And the next sentence says. What it used to say that it no longer says those contradict each other in a way, because you don't even know what background means, whereas F with the equal opportunity employer say, oh, what that means? That's explicit and very clear. Yeah. So in a way, this this might be redundant. And I think it looks like it's not real because the very next sentence says, you have to be this background. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's hard to try to cover everything you have to cover with something like this. And lots of times calls for art are designed to exclude people because people who are asking for it want as few of applications as they can get. It's truth. Yeah. OK. I know you're. Yeah, I wonder is I, you know, are there other parts of the document where it's clear that? You know, what I understand what you're trying to do, Marine, is to make sure that whoever comes in either has the experience or has them the wherewithal to get figure out what is needed to, you know, install something from beginning to end. And so I don't know if, you know, that's just obvious, you know, or if we need language for that, because I think that's what you're trying to say by adding in all of this meeting, this type of experience. Is it my correct? Yeah, yeah. So do you feel that maybe we could just, you know, access, you know, remove this sentence? Is that something that folks would want? And then and then reduce the points for the the rubric? Honestly, like the first sentence where we had all artists are encouraged to apply first and then get rid of preferred experience executing works of art. That was that would be my suggestion. That's how other folks just take it out all together. And yeah, yeah. And I don't think you should all have all. It's it's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that looks a little bit better. That's acceptable, Marine. Sure. Yeah. OK, so let's so so now we're turning back to right one. Artist. And that first sentence is now a little bit off. Oh, what? Oh, create out to create. Oh, thank you. Yeah. There you go. OK. Are we looking for comments for paragraph one? Yes. Artists may consider locating the temporary public art, blah, blah, blah. All right. That raises a lot of legal issues to my mind, like, OK, they can consider it, but who gets to choose? That's the number one. Is there going to be do they choose it or does the town choose it? Exactly. Is that your say? Yes, that's a good point. That's a good point. So theoretically, they're going to be, you know, submitting their plan and the proposal for, you know, one of those parks. And, you know, you would hope that they would want to maybe have rendering showing what it would look like. I think it's just the language that we're having. Instead of like a consideration, artists may choose to locate the temporary public art either Kendrick or Spitzer. Just be. Yeah. Just be finite about it. They don't have to consider anything. They just have to choose. Is that. I mean, do you want it to say choose or request? And it's a question. Jim, I like this request or choose. That may may request to locate. There you go. Well, you're leaving the option open for them to request to do it somewhere else, then. That was I would be more finite and say choose because. Yeah, you know what? Good point. Yeah, that's that's yeah, that we won't get legally in control with that if they have two choices. And can you in the first. But with the request, actually, it makes it so that like maybe the town decides, OK, no, actually, we want this in Kendrick and not in Sweetster. You know what I mean? That's what it says. Like there I think we actually have more wiggle room if we use request. I mean, I don't know either one is I think it'll be fine either way. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. But I respectfully disagree because if you put it the first way, then it raises the issue about who makes the final decision that would need to be stipulated. Or you get into it. You don't want it, Jim, which word should it be? Choose a request. Request. We you're Jim's lawyer in the room. That's fine. In the first sentence, can you put in to create an outdoor? And there we go. Oh, wait, what? To get an outdoor and. Let me just make a really quick point. The worst thing you can do is have a contract that creates a dispute. Yeah. Some reason I'm having technical issues. Where do you want me to put in in between create an outdoor and outdoor to create in and oh, and sorry, sorry. It's having no D. Oh, sorry. Yeah, thank you. Sorry. So then you need to take off the S after works just a few words down from that. Excellent. Thank you. All right. Thank you. OK, so section two is about the funding source and the budget and just to acknowledge it. Quick question in section two, should we stipulate? I'm assuming the town is paying for the de-installation. Should that I maybe defer to Jim on this? Should that be stated explicitly? He stated is going to. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is who's paying for things and who bears the risk of things. And who's going to ensure for things. Uh, so here it says the. The artists would be responsible for insurance. And the artist is responsible for all the tools and materials and fabrication, transportation and travel. And if the artist is going to be responsible for the insurance, then it should also say the artist will provide a certificate of insurance naming the town as additional loss payee. Yeah, and I think that will be part of the contract. So I don't think that this this this needs to get into into those particulars. This is I think we should have removal in there, too, though. Yeah, like, yeah, I guess I was focused on the de-installation part of the yeah, though it was clear up for that. Definitely should be agreed to because that could create a lot of. The sanction. All right, um, how about. I bet do you have an if an artist wants to apply and they get in touch with us and they say, do you have any information about typical cost of console of console engineering consultation, insurance, tools, fat, you know, are we going to be able to answer that question? No, but our DPW can can assist our town engineer. Because that's kind of off-putting for somebody to think that they're basically going to serve as not just the artist, but as the person who functions kind of as the overhaul contractor for all of this. Yeah, it might be better for the town to do it. Is that what you're saying? Well, I don't if the town doesn't want to do it. The town. Well, the town doesn't have a structural engineer. But, you know, the town will certainly provide guidance if needed with these sorts of things. And, but the fees cost engineers charge a lot of money. Mm hmm. You know, the insurance costs a lot of money required to have structural engineering consultation. You know, it may. And so this is. This is something that. You know, whoever is reviewing this, these proposals, which the town engineer will be assisting with, you know. It's kind of a knowledge acknowledging that, you know, these proposals do really need to be feasible and structurally sound. And so. If they're not, then it's not going to work out for anyone. And so, you know, if needed with a particular, I'm not saying that this is an absolute must that that that would be required. But if it came down to it, and it's very unclear where there. The, the art piece is not going to work. You know, this could be something that that would be needed. Well, let me ask a question about like, say that the tall wooden tree like trunks that were in Kendrick Park. Was there a contract for that? Yes, yep. So did you base some of this on the contract for that? No, no, that was between, I believe, UMass and, and, and the town manager's office. I wanted to what that contract looks like in terms of helping us answer the questions we're raising. Yeah, I know that that is that's a really good point. You know, a lot of the information that you're seeing in this document reached out to the New England Foundation for the arts. Where this training and great program came from. And they were gracious enough to share with me some of their favorite call to artists that were part of this program. So, you know, some of these particulars are are what other towns are, you know, towns are requesting in their calls. And this rate like $10,000 for this exact project. Yeah. Well, I think this paragraph definitely speaks without saying it in the same way to an that the artist needs to have some experience and, you know, knows what they'll be getting into, or if they don't, you know, these are some of the things that they should be considering. Because this is what's really, you know, what I could do is I could strike this off and, you know, talk to our town engineer and just say if this is something that's absolutely needed. You're striking off the structurally engineering consultancy. I don't know if you should because I think it makes sense that you don't necessarily it's not saying that it's required. It's saying that the cost the 10,000 has to cover that the town is not going to cover that. So if that's required, then it would come from the 10,000. Yeah, well we could put on this contract amount is inclusive of all possible costs associated with the project. And then that makes it so that like, you know, maybe not necessarily all these things might apply to you but but it definitely like puts the B in the bonnet of like okay we are going to have like somebody that's going to be concerned about like the structural engineering of the project. What do you guys think of that. Well I guess it's a good question marine then to ask if if structural engineering is required all the other things are definitely required. Sure yeah. This is not a contract. Because they might be able to do that for free right like the town engineer. You know, that's a good question. You know structural engineer implies a structure structural engineering implies a structural engineer in the town does not have one. Yeah, but I will talk with Jason skills. So then when you talk to what happens. And then if he feels that this is should be a requirement will keep it in if he's saying. It's, it might be a safe to fail thing to list. This is just sort of a poo poo platter of what what could be required. So that the artists upfront knows what they're getting themselves into a lot. This puts a lot of risk if I were an artist. This would scare me. I don't have to really want that $10,000 really bad. I don't have to really want to do this project really bad. Yeah, the money. Well for people who are making a living from their art that the money does count. Yeah, so do you feel how do folks feel about me talking with the town engineer. And you know if he thinks that it really should be in here, then it'll be left in and if he says, uh, I feel like we can trust in and his expertise and in your expertise. Well, I like Jason a lot, but think about what his point of view is. He's an engineer. He's not an artist. He's not a person that makes his living by selling art. He's not going to think about Dara's point probably. But I do think it's important for you to list everything that honestly they will be required to be responsible for. No matter what the upshot about that all that is from, say my point of view doesn't my point of view, doesn't matter. It matters. If the town wants this to be stated. That's what it's going to be stated I guess, is it really even an argument. But maybe we should think about whether I mean, I think the point that it can scare off people is really profound. Well, like for instance, I don't know what they're paying for community meetings means. I don't know either. In terms of we could definitely we could we could delete that because when I when I when I put that in, because this was again lifted off of other communities that are participating in this program. I thought, what would they be paying for? It would either be on zoom or it would be somewhere it would be in physically in a, you know, town in the town hall where everything it's pretty, you know, I am worried about our time because we're already like 48 minutes into our meeting, and we're only on like number two. It spooks me because like I, I feel like we're going to fade out before we get to like, like, big things if we're like worrying about all the little things and I feel like if, you know, if we can rely on the expertise that's in the town hall for things I feel like we should trust in that how do you guys feel about that. I think this probably needs another draft, which is I hate to say it, because I mean I don't think this is a little thing I think this is going to I think this is a big thing, not that I would like to agree with you let me say, but I'm thinking about it as an artist and I'm thinking about this thing it says oh my God, I have no idea what I'm getting into I guess I'll pass. And then you put in all this work to try to have a project, and it fails because of the way the call for art is drafted, which I hope it wouldn't just take that as a possibility now as anybody going to feel about that. So, I mean Jason skills. I think the guy's terrific, and I'm impressed with him personally and as an engineer. That's where his skills are. We're supposed to be giving advice about the art part. Well, art part is how is this call for art going to affect the artists. But I would say a public public art has to be safe for the public. I agree but that does require a lot of what's in that paragraph number two. Or maybe that maybe the town should decide if it, if it wants to pick up some of the unknowns that are within the ability of the town easily to handle and then pair it down that's I guess what my point is. I think it should have like possible costs or may include and then have like this big list of stuff. And then, I don't know why are we putting this in here why don't we put it in the contract where they won't see it in the call for art. Well, you can at least reorganize it like project parameters could come second instead of the budget, for instance. But that's more directly about the result people are looking for. So I mean you can reorder it and put this stuff like put the budget and the project rules, you know, later. I mean, it's all important so I think we will need the artist to submit their budget with their proposal so that we can see that they're organized enough to like get the project done. Yeah, but that doesn't have to come second in the top of the document. All right. I have something to what there's just saying because it's actually repetitive if you look at 3, 3, e. The same statement exists regarding the budget so maybe that's the more appropriate place for it and number two could just number two could just be the funding source. True. That's good. The budget. It is don't thank you that is redundant. Yeah, that's great. The agency is one of my best things. Okay, so we made this document a little shorter. Yay. Which is always nice. Yeah, it's really good. It's so long, you know, it is I know I know well I was trying to be really thorough. These other towns are thorough we appreciate the other towns that that that I looked at for these call for artists through this program there are they actually are very thorough, and they get into all these particulars. They get into these big list in the call or in the front. That's what, yeah, that's what I've been referring to. I understand. Yeah, no, so it's a balance. Well, yeah, well, let's keep on working. So, you put so much into it because otherwise we wouldn't know what to talk about. And this was this is just a four months minimum four months I guess in my mind that sort of represents maybe part of a season or a season. Very, you know, very open ended of what month that is but I thought that was a good safe amount of minimum in case in case that needs to go get out sooner than later, but you know it could be there for because it doesn't say the maximum right so that kind of gives it nice and open to to to having it there for a longer time. And then the project theme so in today's email. I did reach out to Pamela young and she was happy with this language as shown or it. I know that folks had talked about promoting how the project theme could be about promoting cultural diversity. And did you guys have any other thoughts or, or how would you like to handle that, Robert. Actually, my comment is not really about the theme, although my one sort of cosmetic suggestion would be the project theme is to celebrate. I would say BIPOC I'm not sure the is needed and then I would just put in parentheses black indigenous and people of color as opposed to BIPOC stands for black. So, what would you like to say sorry. Is to celebrate BIPOC after BIPOC in the first sentence I would just put parenthetically black indigenous and people of color. BIPOC in the first sounds. Right after the word that way it's. Oh God, yeah. Yeah. People of color should be also. Yeah. Yeah. But my wish probably capitalize black and people. Oh black and then people of color. But I had a question about parameters because in the, in the scoring sheet under number one general one B refers to is the proposed artwork interactive in some way. And if the answer is no then the responses strongly considered disqualifying the applicant. Yeah, that's the that's the only place that interactivity is mentioned. So, if, if that is such a significant aspect I think we better highlight it in the parameters somehow so, you know, more transparent. To be honest, I don't know how what I think of this. One be is the meter. Do you guys want to scrap it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, it's not necessary. Under the appendix a artists on the score sheet. Okay. The other two are important, you know, if the answer is no, then we'll strongly consider disqualifying obviously. Yeah, that sounds. It's all good. Where were we. The theme I have a question. Just so I make sure I didn't miss a I'm fine with the theme, but I thought at the last meeting. We said it wasn't going to be limited. And I'm fine with this theme. I just wondered, did I miss some commute correspondence or communication. I mean I remember the last meeting it was, there was some group that had met in the summer and high and recommended not to limit it. Right. Did I miss something. Yeah. Yeah, I, I feel like it just kind of kept going in the way of the, the theme. Who's like, yeah. Then I just kind of stuck in there. Yeah, this was a suggestion of to the DEI director. I reached out to her to review the call to artists and she thought it, she said, oh, in general, I really like it. She said, my only suggestion was the project theme be this. And, and that was she had over the summer there was BIPOC youth groups that met and I guess this was a sort of a question that was asked. Do you do you feel represented in town. And with art, and then they said, no, we don't. And since then, she said, actually I talked to her about it again today. And when she looked at this again, and she said, you know, well, you know, it's unfortunate that that, you know, some people do feel that way. But she said that, you know, since you started working here there are public art pieces in town that do embrace and celebrate BIPOC members such as the mural adjacent to the West Cemetery is one. The Civil War tablet that is on display. And, you know, perhaps there's others so she did, you know, say that, you know, if, if, if she's fine with whatever you choose. And she also did extend her invitation and extended her help if this committee ever wants to reach out to her about with a this project in the future or another one. And, and, and about how to be inclusive with community engagement for public art projects. And if you wanted to do this theme in the future. So if you don't want to do this project theme today with this project. She did, you know, encourage this commission to consider something like this in the future. I think that we haven't actually agreed entirely Lori but we talked about it. And I think a more inclusive theme we talked about was something like the project theme is to celebrate community in all of its color and diversity. I think that's what we had kind of talked about and now it's been kind of narrowed to celebrate BIPOC. So, if we if we're, it depends on how we feel as a, as a commission, you know, do we want to specifically say celebrate BIPOC or do we want to say celebrate community, inclusive, I don't know how to put inclusive language in the includes everybody, or if you want to narrow into BIPOC and I think that's probably a decision of this of this commission. Yeah. So we had reached that decision, I think we were talking about it still. Maybe a healthy medium with this and just thinking out loud is so the, the town of Amherst has created this office of diversity equity inclusion. How about if the project theme is to sell right diversity equity and create an inclusion. It's very open ended as much more open ended. Yeah, I like that a lot, because like I have been struggling with this because like I, I just like have this vision of, you know, like, say a black artist comes in and and it's like, who are we to say that like there are isn't like black enough, you know what I mean, like, yeah, and you know, crude way of putting it but I don't know how else to like get my that that feeling out of me but, and it's like I worry about that and I don't want to like pigeonhole somebody into like you know because you're, you're of a certain person you have to have art that's like in stereotypes. You know what it's nice and reflective to hold on one second, let me find that yep. So we're going to say the project is to celebrate diversity community and inclusion. Equity, community. I'm trying to get the minutes what exactly are we saying diverse, the project theme is to celebrate diversity equity and inclusion. Yeah, and it and that being inclusive of everyone. So, we're not just talking about race, you know, we're talking about gender and gender identity. You know marital status. The list goes on disabilities. All ages, all backgrounds. So yeah, I think it's wonderful. I think something like the project theme is to celebrate the diversity equity and inclusion of Amherst or some stuff I'll make it more local. I'm not really sure how to do that though. Everyone in Amherst. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think either I don't think there's a bad answer or wrong answer of Amherst. I think it's fine just like it is. It's about Amherst. It'll be on one line as it is now so it makes it the document looks shorter. Good thinking Shoshana. So project location. So this just, you know, explains that either be a Kendrick Parker. Okay, I work. It implies that the artist is going to get to pick the location. Is that what we've been doing? That was in another section. Yeah, no, but we're doing it again and I just want to make sure that's what we mean to do. How about you have proposal that may be located either Kendrick or sweet sir. Well, you know, I could say that the town of Amherst, the, the what is it the art jury and the town of Amherst will make final approval of its exact location. Park location and. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Some kind of thingy in there about, you know, final, final decision lays with the town. Yeah, okay, the town of Amherst. Okay, then I think it should be an application proposed to be located. Then it should say that town will make the final decision is to location artists may propose town decides that's what we're saying right. Yeah, and you know, we could even shorten this slightly because I don't know why to say that the artist team may submit an application proposal to be located, or shall submit may submit an application proposal to be located at Kendrick or sweet sir, which are both located in the heart of downtown. Yeah, maybe yeah. Okay. Just to ask one more one more question about C in the score sheet number three B. It mentions has the artist considered the site they're proposing and how it fits with or connects to their proposed artwork. Does that in any way relate to what was just decided about who decides. Can you, can you indicate where, where you were seven seven three B. Yeah, three B. Thank you. Yep. Yep. Has the artist considered the site they're proposing, and how it fits with or connects to their proposed artwork. No, we care. That seems parallel. Yeah, just asking. You know, the, I have talked to Gabrielle cool about this project. And I've been meaning to actually reach back out to her. You know, one thing that does need to be considered about this is that both parks do have outdoor events like sweet sir park has the like summer music series. And so one thing that does need to be considered and it's like, is it on the artist or the town, but like, we wouldn't want to have like a sculpture right smack in the middle where everyone would be sitting for seeing a concert. And just, and then like other item of like. And so I think it is going to be important to understand what kind of events take place at both these parks. And, and how does it fit in with the park itself in terms of walkways and trees and its visibility. They have your, you want them to do a site specific piece of. I think that's, yeah, it's important to keep in there, I think. But I was just wondering if the contradicted in some way that the town has the final say. Yeah, I hear you saying, well, it's just kind of, you know, it might be just sort of protection, it might not be needed here to be honest. I was just asking. If you look at the project and tell, I mean, the thing is the way it's worded it says, have you considered artists says yes, they get full credit, but they didn't do a good job of considering it. So, you know, we could have this or not what if folks think I say not and not okay. Judge it. You know, separately. Right. Yeah. And you know, I think the contract will ultimately get into details like that. Okay. I know lawyers are going to look at this thing and they write the contract accordingly. Okay, so D art medium materials maintenance and durability. Which, which number is this please. Oh, 3D 3B 3D or not 3D as in dog. Oh 3D 3D. Like the movies. Okay. So what are we taking out? Oh, and here's this last sentence. I spoke to Gilford mooring the DPW director about this project he's, he's supportive of the project. And he said that DPW staff can help with the installation in that they can put a concrete pad and he did say that it would be helpful to indicate the size. And he said, you know, that's twofold that they could commit to a four by four concrete pad for paying and for for paying for the materials and the labor and for installing it. Also, he said they would help sort of narrow down the the scale of this. Yeah, and it might be helpful for the artist as well. Should it say up to four by four concrete foot pad. Let's see here I'm trying to I'm looking, I'm looking at my tiles on my floor every tiles a foot long one. And so the DPW will be in charge of actually providing the concrete foot pad right. Yeah, not the artist. Not the artist one to maybe put in provided by the town to so that they understand that. We're talking about three, we're talking about 3D third paragraph now. Yeah. Okay. I think what Shoshona said about up to four by four if that's really their limit. No, I think I'm looking at four by four is not that big. I think, I think, and also I think that the, you know, the DPW would be could negotiate if it's four feet or, you know, five feet. This gives this gives the artist a frame of reference. You want to put approximately in there for a foot. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. Yeah. It's nine oh nine and we have 11 pages. So what do you think about the idea of getting a subcommittee of just a couple of people to go through this again. And then maybe meeting in like maybe a week. I for one would like to get this out as soon as we can so a week from now seems like a long time. Yeah. We're going to be here past midnight. Seven o'clock right now. We're not that far away from the end. We got two pages done in an hour. We'll get faster. Watch us get faster. Okay. So do you have any other comments about this section on art medium materials. Maintenance or durability. Did you want to say provided by the town of Amherst? Or is it the selected temporary public art will be attached to a concrete foot pad. Provided by the town of Amherst. Thanks. There you go. Or their materials will be provided by. Well, the installation, they're going to put it in. The artist doesn't have to put it in. Yeah, that's good. I like that. Well, does the artist have to put the concrete pad in? I don't think it implies that necessarily. I think that's a good idea. I mean, we don't. Want that, do we? No. Okay. Yeah, that works. That's better. Yeah. Okay. And then we already went through the budget, didn't we? Because we look at us. Okay, we're going fast. Okay. Okay. Let me see. Okay. Here we go. This project is open to artists and. Oh, Robert. Yeah. I have a comment on F. Practicing the word practicing artists. In the first sentence. Consistent with what we've talked about. Earlier in terms of. De-emphasizing experience. I'm wondering. Yeah. So remove practicing. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's good. I have a question real quick question about the paragraph who were just on the town. It says. Is committed to building a public art collection. If it's temporary. How is that part of a collection? Yeah. You take a point. Yeah. So it doesn't seem to contradict that. Yeah, you can just get rid of. Promoting promoting. It's committed to. To build public art that represents artists. Just get ready to promote public art. That. And can we speak for the town of Amherst or should that say the. Public art commission or the art jury or something like that? I'm asking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the public art commission. But we're not the select board. So that's what's concerning me. But. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I, I have, you know, the, I have. I've spoken to staff and they're fine with, with. The town. The town does. Promote. Public art. That, you know, represents. These. These various groups. Yeah. The, the procurement officer and the town manager will be. Reviewing this and providing, you know, ultimate, you know, approval of this. So I will say, yeah, so. This, this. We are not the only eyes on this. Robert. We're in that second paragraph. The artwork will be on display. I feel like. That information's been stated elsewhere. In three, in three. Yeah. And we just had the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. Perfect. Eligibility. Yeah. We went over that. Yep. And then I will play around the students say employment. Right. Yeah. And I just put the link in just so I wouldn't forget where I found this. And so I'm going to, I'll delete that at some point. Artists selection process. I'll just select. Select themselves for considerate. No, that's not. That's not right. Yeah. I don't know why. Sorry. Submit. Applications. Submit applications. Sorry. There you go. Shelters. Great. Artists. Right. Yeah. Yeah. IT. I'm. We just need to get a link. For my. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And all artists are going to be notified about the status of their applications. Yes. Yep. All right. And that should be easy because if they're submitting everything online, we'll have their email address. And phone numbers. And. Okay. Project criteria review criteria. Yeah. I don't know how long it's going to be. Maybe at the end you, we probably should say. But we definitely should say who's to decide. How long it's going to stay there. Right now it just says a minimum of four months. Yeah. Cause we don't know how long it's going to be. Yeah. It doesn't say who decides how long it's going to be. Maybe. It would be the town manager. The town manager is. The. The town manager. Has the control of all. Of all. Town parks. So he would have the ultimate. So yeah, that, there you go. Where do I say that about the four months. Page three. I would say at the beginning, the first time you mentioned four months or. Yeah. Every time you mentioned it or at least. Well, on page three, it says our work will be on display for the town manager. And then it says it anywhere else. You should say as determined by the town manager. That's all you need to do. Four months or as determined by the town manager. Yeah. As. Determined. By the town. And they're good. Good call. Good find. Okay. Now we, now I have to find where we work. I think we were a design criteria. Number six. Number six. Number six. Number six criteria. Let's see here. Oh yeah, there we go. Is that where we are? No, we're beyond that. Sorry, my page numbers have changed because I'm like editing it. Yeah. Number six, we were. Starting. Well, again, I thought. I thought we had. The CD and E. Pursuant to our previous discussion about. We did earlier. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, you're right. And I may be the, in a of this section, maybe are all of the required materials present. It should say application materials because materials is used and talking about what the artwork is going to be made of. Two. I think you just to lead or all of the required materials present because it says as the application complete. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Yeah. Is the application complete? That's enough. I think it should also have this would be a good spot to put in that. Oh, my battery is running though. Oh boy. It would be a good spot to put in something about like nothing. Like this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't violate trade marks or copyrights. No infringements of any third parties, intellectual property rights. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Is that a law? Oh, it's a problem that we ran into with the electrical box one. There was one that was just like it was immediately off the table and it didn't work. It didn't work. It didn't work. It didn't work. It didn't work better. Wasn't that. And so that would just be. Just sort of baseline. Like. Or maybe not. Well. I don't care where you put it. If you just put with that. No. No. No. No project. May. In fringe. Any third parties intellectual property rights. All right. If I drop out of here because of low. Battery on my computer, I'll have to come in on my phone and I'm not entirely sure. How good that will be. Shawna, aren't you running it right now? Well, I made Maureen co-hosts. Okay. So I think she'll, she would wind up being like. Maureen, you want to put third parties? Oh, I can't see that. Instead of thirds. Why can't I see that? Third parties. Yeah. Electual property rights. All right. Yeah. It's good that we have that in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So Craig. You live near me. I can't. We're going to lose our form. One, two, three, four. Oh, we still have it. Yeah. I'll come in when I, when this. I'm not 9% right now. When I. I'll come back in. I'll come back in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not 9% right now. When I. I'll come back in on my phone. What's the form? Why don't you just go do that now to Shawna? Yeah. We can, we can take a. A minute break. Okay. I'll go get some. Yeah. Let me see if I can just seamlessly. Go through without even interrupting anything. Okay. Does anyone have any, I'll scroll down to now seven. I just had a couple of quick things on. Just H and I, I think it, I think how well does. Thank you. Why the dues are underlined. And then. Wait, wait, one H, but stay on age. And I don't think it's okay to stay in general personal style. We can just say. Well, thank you. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Can you please, I don't, I don't have the three shares. Tell me what. That's number seven, Jim. Seven. I'm sorry. Six. Six H. On page four. And what are we doing with six H and I. We got rid of. Oh, I'll go back in time. Hold on a second. We were going to get rid of general personal. Those words. Six H. How well does the artist. Presented artwork design and. Get rid of general personal. Style aligned with the overall goals of this project. Get rid of that comma. I don't know what you're reading. I don't see anything like that on my age. Oh, you know, yeah. Different number. It was for, so number section six is project review criteria. And then. And then we went to age. How well does the artist. Present did artwork design and. Personal stop. Personal style align with the overall goals of this project. We got rid of personal. Jim, look at, look at six K, because I think because of the edits that were done. Oh, it became. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. Sorry. Oh, that's, that's. It's all fluid. Thank you. Okay. So we'll get ready. Right. Yeah, sorry about that. Okay. So we were all worried about the structural integrity thing, but it's in number. It's in letter G or section G. It wasn't Jay, right? What's wrong with that? Well, this is not specifying, you know, who was paying for it, but the town will. Require that, that, that. That this. That the proposal is feasible and structurally sound. It seems so unarguable to me. So let's, if you don't have any more comments on section six, let's move on to section seven. The required submission materials include. Statement and interest for this specific commission, including why the project resonates with you. A thorough written description of the piece of temporary public art. That includes materials, look and feel size info about. Interact about elements. I don't know. I don't know what interactive means elements and a brief overview of installation needs and requirements. The part, the. Please, you know, maybe to say, please, please indicate. The park. In which you would like to install your work and why. So. Yeah. Leave out the word thorough before written in number two. Number two. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I need that. And a, a written yep. Okay. A brief artists biography statement. Okay. Cover letter. What's the difference between that and the CV. Is a CV another cover. Biography is often a statement. In a form and a CV is more like, you know, every exhibition you've been in your resume. Okay. And then. We were gonna. We were going to get rid, weren't we going to get rid of the past relevant experience? Well, they should, should still put in their resume slash CV, I think. Okay. Cause it would be a good for us to see like their body of work and. Yeah. What they're about. I'll take it back. I don't want this. Leave it. Okay. It's, it says complied and you mean. Compiled, I think it should be. Oh, thank you. Just leave it out. Thank you. And then the proposal design includes site plan elevation plans. Specification sheets. Okay. And they might say just like, yeah, yeah, I think that's good enough. And then how do you submit your application materials? So the link to be provided. And then. Application deadline. I think we talked about maybe two months out. From when, um, I feel like this time we can't really say what the deadline is until we know when we're going to release it. So I don't know if it's going to be like this week next week or, you know, okay. So, so maybe we will just say. Just so we all are on agree in agreement. Do you think that, you know, a month and a half or two months from the date that it's. I think two months. Two months from when. The call is released is. Two months from the deadline. I just. Yeah. Um, and then. I still want to reserve that like having like the secret extension. Like that we announced on the deadline. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, that's just a note for us include secret extension. Um, of. And then just to say that we don't know. I feel like maybe we don't know how long we want to extend it. And we don't have to decide until that very moment. So it could be one week or two weeks. It's kind of secret. Why don't you say flexible. Yeah. Well, it's just a no, it's not going to be. No one's going to read this other than us. And then decide according to how many, um, applications we get, if we don't get like very many, maybe a longer extension, if we get a lot, a short extension. Yep. Okay. So nine, aren't Jerry. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But this doesn't have to be decided now or stated, but maybe in a subsequent meeting, I'm just curious as to the process of selection in terms of the two members. Of the jury from this commission and then how the members of the public. Are chosen. But again, that. That's conversation, but I would be interested to, to hear. What's involved in that process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That I think. Question I wrote before we started. So thank you. Yeah. So, uh, you know, what's shown here is two public art committee members, one representative from the. Amherst cultural district, one representative from the Amherst business improvement district, two members of the public. Um, including representatives from the planning department, the DPW, the DEI office, uh, facilities. Department and additional representation from the, uh, the disability access advisory committee and the. Design review board. Wow. That's a lot. And this doesn't mean that the, uh, that the DAAC and the DRB would be on. The art jury, but they, um, They may want to review it at their meetings and provide recommendations to the art jury. It's not clear from that language. That's what it means. It's the way I'm reading it. They're on the committee. So do we want to say, uh, they would be. Uh, Advising the committee. Or making recommendations. We can also put art jury may consist of, and then put like this giant line. List of people. What's the total number are you aiming for? I don't know. Yeah, let's just, like, I kind of sometimes think in bullets. Hold on a second. Yeah. And the. Okay. And the DE, uh, the, oh, the DAAC and. Um, um, kind of speak for, um, The DAAC and DRB and advisory capacity only. Oh, that's much help. That's helpful. Thanks. We get two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. 10 people, 10, um, representatives from. This. Committee from the cultural district, the. And then I think there should be language that says, you know, the art jury may, you know, may wish, may wish to seek. But just, I see you don't need may wish to may seek. Comments from the regarding the regarding the proposals. Yeah. See comments from who from the disability access advisory committee in the design review board. Because of the design review board, you know, they're, they have a lot of experience with, and they are majority of them are professional architects and they have, I attend their meetings. They have a phenomenal wealth of knowledge about all things design from lettering to signage to, to, to are in and how, how these sorts of things actually are how they're structurally sound and how they fit into the context around them. And then the disability access advisory committee, I attend their meetings as well. And they're a wealth of knowledge as well and have a unique perspective of looking at all things within the public, public realm. And regarding disability laws. So it would be really, I think, useful to get comments from both these boards. We think I agree. Okay, and then so 10 the project commissioning creation process. The selected art team may invoice the town for payment upon each of the following three interim deliverables. This was a recommendation from the New England Foundation for the arts. They shared with them our draft copy, and they thought it would be nice to, you know, give the artist, you know, payment whenever, whenever possible so they don't have to wait till the very end. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, so the first interim deliverable would be approved final point design, production plan and budget. The second payment would be upon fabrication dress rehearsal linens go away. Oh yeah that needs to go away to a home site and production plan and budget. And fabrication and then the third would be the installation. So that's an important point that you do not say how much the invoice may be for. Yeah, I was going to raise that question to it's not clear from this if someone could submit an invoice upon final design and budget for 100% of the project at that time. There might want to be some thought given to are we, you know, is it going to be 33% each time or you know what just what's the allocation of the payments. Yeah, you know, before I say anything let's go back to the required submission materials and say itemized budget. So that shall help guide the, the artists to know how much to budget this out for but that doesn't necessarily answer your question. Right and if you want to get into a major argument leaving this open is a great way to do it. Right and also we might want to specify and I guess I would defer to the finance people in town, you know are they, they're going to require receipts. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That might want to, you might want to spell that out a bit more explicitly. Okay, and. Hold on a second, and just read a note, and that can. Maybe they have. Yeah, they'll, they'll provide exact language get. I'll just say, add text about. We're going to watch such as payment terms, payment terms. Oops, sorry about payment about such as payment terms. I'm going to just for my own benefit I'm going to go IE receipts, just so I can dog my memory on this. Okay, so. All right. And then 11 is the full timeline. These dates are subject to change, but you know, so we'll figure this out. So we'll do the announced the call the call, the open call for artists with a press release and social media channels. We can hold a workshop. We can. So just say a little more about what the work workshop. Facilitated by who's who's going to do that. So that would be up, you know, up to this commission. If you would like to hold a workshop to sort of. And you know me or other planning staff can help. And put workshop. You know what, or, or, you know, we could get rid of that, you know, later down, I say, if you have any questions. Okay. Call me that I think that just due to actually staff resources. I don't know if we can commit to that. Okay. Sorry, it just deleted be so there's a new be. I really think taking the word secret out of documents like this is a good idea. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. We'll just get rid of it. Yeah. Okay. And then March roughly will select the art that selected artists is announced, you know, roughly between March and July fabrication of public art piece and contracting with the artist. You want to put contracting first and fabrication after. Robert. When you get to I have a question. monthly check in with planner or art jury, probably not art jury, probably just planner. Well, that was my question. So basically our, and I assume the planner means you so are you are essentially functioning as the project manager for this is that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, a plant, you know, the, yes, I can, I'll be serving that role. Can you call yourself that. Um, Well, um, I would, you know, I would. Sure. Yeah, project manager. Let me just, let me talk to my superior of my supervisor, but I'll just say project manager and then we can figure out the exact language here planner by itself sounds a little esoteric. Yeah, it's like what is a planner. Yeah, no, I hear you. And then July to September artwork is installed September October public unveiling and sell in community celebration. And then this is the disclosure statements and I will say that this will be reviewed. Okay, thoroughly by our, you know, our finance department. So, and then questions they can call me or send me email and then this is the public art committee. Mission and core value statement. And then I decided to keep leave this statement about that, that link to existing public art, even though it's not up to date, but I think it's, it's useful to look at. Okay. And then appendix a artists score sheet. What are we on appendix a. Oh, can we back up please. There's a statement in here from 30 chat chat messages is generalize chapter 30 be section two why is it there. Murray. Yep. I don't think it belongs there because it's confusing. But if there's a reason, please tell me. I took this disclosure statement from a different town that's had that has a tent that is going through this program and this will be reviewed by our finance direct department so it's going to just going to make the artist eyes twirl around because just I mean I'm a lawyer I don't know why it's there. All right, yeah, to be honest, I really don't have a rebuttal I don't. But do you mind if I ask, talk to our finance department about this. No, I mean, but I mean, it's exempt. It's exempt. I don't know why it needs to be in here's my point. It is right. I mean, we can't change what 30 be says. So you're suggesting that this be deleted. All right, let me just to be honest, let me just talk to our finance direct department and and see what they say. Yeah, that sounds reasonable to delete it. I just, I don't amount of expert in in this particular stuff. Yeah, got it. Okay attach is a town of Amherst contract with insurance requirements whose insurance requirements. The town. So does the town having quite does is this certificate insurance will be required does this mean, is this saying that the artist has to have insurance. Yes. So the branches or I don't know what the real name is. That was a good example the town manager's office, you know, required. It's not clear who's providing the insurance and who's the requirements of. So if all you need to do is say with with contract with insurance client client requirements of the artist. And then you're all set or of the artists insurance requirements. No, that doesn't work. It's just a hair it's really with my bar of stuff on the bottom that I can't seem to get rid of it's, I can't read much of that. How about it attaches the town of Amherst contract with insurance requirements which will be executed by the artist. The artist apostrophe as insurance requirements how's that all you need is artist apostrophe at between with an insurance requirements. Yep. Yeah, I got it. Okay, that's the town of Amherst contract with the artist insurance. Now it works. Yeah, which will be actually good. Okay, the certificate of insurance. And yeah, actually here. Oh, I found a redundant one. There's like a sentence about who funded this and that was already stated. Yep. Okay, and then yeah questions. I understand that and then did we, I feel like we did we go in the middle would I feel like we were somewhere else or sorry, weren't we. We were about to start the jury sheet. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I don't know how we got. Okay. And we talk about one on the appendix a. Yeah, we did is the application complete as a candidate and all the requested information and materials and format this clear and easy to understand. See that. Oh, that should be be B is the proposed artwork temporary nature yet able to withstand various weather conditions for a minimum of four months. So we delete. It was about inter whether it was interactive or not. Yeah, thank you. Number two experience and commission does the artist. Oh, and then so delete or reduce the numbers. Which one are we on to experience experience and commission. Oh yeah, yeah. I would suggest reducing the value. Points, but I don't know how others. No, I take it back. I think you're right. 510 1520. Yeah, this is reasonable. Technical review does the artist work samples and CV resume demonstrates substantial enough experience. You can say you can get rid of enough. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, I have a question though, are we not doubling up on points there because if you go back to, if you go back to two, we're asking does the artists have experience with commission based work and then three we're asking if the samples and resume demonstrate experience it seems like it does have that experience where we're, we're doubling their points. Yeah, and penalizing someone twice who may not. Do you feel like we could delete this one. Yeah. Yeah, kind of in a way it's sort of redundant. Yeah, I think it is. Robert, what do you think. Yes. Yeah, I think it's covered in the previous section. And the things that we really care about are still yet to come in the B and the C that covers that, which will now be the new A and B. All right, great, great. And then four is the artistic merit and creativity. Does the artist statement of interest clearly articulate their interest and commitment for this project. How well does does do wait how well do the artist presented how well does the artists presented artwork proposal. I don't like the wording how well does the artists presented. How about just give it that artist artwork. How about artists proposal. Yeah, yeah, reference fresh air with it. How well does the artist proposal design in general. We don't like that general or and style. Yeah, there you go. I'm with the overall goals of this project. How well does the proposed artwork capture the essence of the project theme rate the artist overall sense of creativity and overall quality of works, a quality of work from one to 10 and with 10 being highest. So if we've reduced the point total in the previous section, are we going to give more points towards the artistic. Yeah, vision, which to me makes sense. Maybe. Thanks. I do want to end up with 100 points at the end. Yeah, you know, I can't just. Let's see here, I feel like we, oh, I can't remember what. Do you think we have to say in here and like nothing like obscene like something that's like okay for public art. Do you think we have to say that or do you think that work itself out. I think that will work itself out. Yeah. Can someone look at the to your, your hard copy if anyone has a hard copy. What was the points for two. It had been 30 previous. It was 30 so that we reduced it by 10. Yeah, and then three. Number three was also 30. So, okay, so we have 20 points to play with. Right, if you will. So, yeah. And that was where we were thinking under four we could, because this is, you know, the heart of it. So we could. So we have 20 so we could say. 1015 20. Oh, so it could be 15. How about 1515 1515. I like the theme having a little bit more so that like you, it really. Yeah. This is. How about if this is 20. Well, I like the artist overall sense of creativity and quality being the highest one. Which one is that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This one. Maybe. Oh, so we only have. So we just gave. I feel like we're playing some sort of game. We just gave away 10. Would you want to make this also 20. If that's 20 also, then I think we're back to 100. I think. Yeah. It's been restored. Okay. So now we add this to 60. Yeah. But it's a shame to make the quality of the art the lowest in the thing. I know that doesn't make sense. That's crazy. Yes. That's a good point. So let's see here. How could we do this? So just say, does the artist statement of interest articulate their, their commitment for this project. So you don't, you already said, statement of interest. So you don't need to say their interest. Clearly articulate their, their commitment. To this project. And that. Well, that's there. We could get rid of that. Maybe that's not necessary. This one. How's everyone feel about that? Good. Okay. So now we have. We have 10 more points to play with. The art overall and D. Okay. So that would be 30. It's 10 right now. No, I think what, what she's suggesting is make each one 20. Oh, oh, there you go. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And now we're back at 60. Yeah. We'll just. The letters on that. And. And what number that was number four. So now we'll go to. 20. Yeah. And that adds up to the hundred. Look at us. Okay. And then. I didn't need to move this. I think you might have to adjust the lettering on the previous sections that. Oh, really? Currently is awful. That's the word. Oh yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I didn't use. Whatever you bullets or. Numbering. And I'll go through this again to see if. The other lettering got messed up, but okay. And then. Okay. So then I can go like this. Bring that to the next page. And whoops. And then. So I just need to get the appendix B. I just need to get that generic form. Provided by the finance department. And then. Oh, I guess I don't. Yeah, sure. I'll put this on the next page. You know, I actually almost was thinking, do we need this? Appendix C. I don't know. But it's, I think it's nice to have. And I doubt anyone's really going to print this. Probably most people will just look at this on the website. And, you know, and, you know, the tent, we're happy to print this out for, for anyone and have. Nice. I think it's a good thing you did. Good question in that second sense, the town of Amherst constructed a playground. A temporary sculpture was installed by in 2022. Is that an extra? Oh, you know what? Cause I wanted to get the name. What are your thoughts? Do you feel like we should have their artist name? Yes. Nice. Yeah. It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I meant to get. What's that again? Harold grin spoon. He wouldn't have been the artist though. He may have funded the project. No, I think it, well, I think it's actually his, like, he's, he's the artist. How you spell his name. The tree like thing. Yeah. He, he likes to like make these pieces and put them all like. The valley. I've seen them all over the place. Yeah. I've seen them at a look part. Now I suddenly see them everywhere. There are a lot of them. There's some at look park in North Hampton. I've noticed. Yeah. I've seen them in Westfield. Springfield. But I think it's two O's as opposed to two. Yeah. Thank you. Sorry. I emailed him asking him what he expects the lifespan speak. They do have a lifespan. But I have not yet her back. But I, I expect that it will be there. For a fair few years. You know, so we'll be something that they'll have to consider when they think, and the, the circle one is still there. I remember we were talking about maybe it wasn't there anymore, but it is still there. I just saw it today. Great. Well, look at us. We did it. Yay. Holy smokes. Thank you, Maureen, for all of this that you've done to make it possible. Thank you. Absolutely. And, you know, so I will loop back. With the, I will. Loop back with the finance department, have them give a thorough look. Once they are satisfied with all the language and the particulars. Of, you know, legal sort of things. Then I will then. Board on to the town manager for review as well. And in any other department. I need to have review this at one another time. And then so once it's finalized, I will email you the. The final, final copy. But with that. Is, do you feel the board is ready to vote on, on. Approving this. How I feel about it. I feel we are, I feel like I trust the town to do its part. I think we can move on and go ahead and vote on it. Okay. I motion that we vote to approve. With. Town approval. We approve the call for artists. Yes. As amended by this meeting. Yeah. As amended by this meeting and under the. Future approval of the town. A second. Maybe. And trusting in their expertise. Thank you so much. This is great. So yeah, I. I'll get going with this. And then I'll let you know when this. Nothing. Nothing we voted. I vote that we do vote. And somebody seconded it, right? I didn't. Yeah. So all. Okay. All that approve. Hi. All that. Disapprove. Any abstinences. Okay. So unanimous approval. Now thank you. Congrats. This is great. This is really exciting. I'm excited. I know the town of, you know, town staff is really excited to work with you all. And I think this is going to be really great for the community. So I will email you the final copy. And I'll touch base with you with the. You know, updated timeline. Of when this is going to go out and all that. And I can work with you. And then the town manager's office about drafting a press release. Sounds great. Great. Thank you for all your work. Thank you so much. I'll be back with a better tour. All right. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Let's go to the town's office about drafting a press release. Sounds great. Thank you for all your work. Thank you so much. Thank you for the great press.